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quote:
Originally posted by Tre:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
That is the worst thing you could do.


I beg your pardon? Confused



Don't mean to offend ... but it is soooooo pathetic ... the ones going "I don't need a man .... I already know the man who treats me right ... Jesus."

Soon as I hear that (speaking as a man) I go in the opposite direction.

God was not intended to function as a substitute for a human relationship. And when I hear that type of talk I can't help but to think that this is a mentality that has bought in to the hype and has capitulated to the destruction of the black man.

It reminds me of European aristocrats who when they couldn't marry off their daughters sent them off to convents (to marry god as it were)... and what I see happening among single black church going women is the normalization of this "approach" ...

It's the worst thing you can do because the other behaviors are merely self-defeating ... this is the one thing that's indicative of a serious underlying neurosis ...

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing per se wrong with being involved in a church or becoming more spiritual ... I just think that a lot of people (and churches) these days have a warped sense of "spirituality" ...
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Don't mean to offend ... but it is soooooo pathetic ... the ones going "I don't need a man .... I already know the man who treats me right ... Jesus."

Soon as I hear that (speaking as a man) I go in the opposite direction.

God was not intended to function as a substitute for a human relationship. And when I hear that type of talk I can't help but to think that this is a mentality that has bought in to the hype and has capitulated to the destruction of the black man.

It reminds me of European aristocrats who when they couldn't marry off their daughters sent them off to convents (to marry god as it were)... and what I see happening among single black church going women is the normalization of this "approach" ...

It's the worst thing you can do because the other behaviors are merely self-defeating ... this is the one thing that's indicative of a serious underlying neurosis ...

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing per se wrong with being involved in a church or becoming more spiritual ... I just think that a lot of people (and churches) these days have a warped sense of "spirituality" ...


I really didn't want to get involved in this particular aspect of the conversation, HoBro, but you have forced my hand.

You will not ever hear me (or the 'crew' that i hang around) say that we don't need a man-because that is a flat out lie.

What we will say is that the Lord is the supplier of all of our needs, whatever needs those may be. Meaning, even if and when we do get a man, HE will still supply all of our needs. A man can't do for me what the Lord can--so in that sense, who is substituting for whom?
quote:
Originally posted by Tre:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Don't mean to offend ... but it is soooooo pathetic ... the ones going "I don't need a man .... I already know the man who treats me right ... Jesus."

Soon as I hear that (speaking as a man) I go in the opposite direction.

God was not intended to function as a substitute for a human relationship. And when I hear that type of talk I can't help but to think that this is a mentality that has bought in to the hype and has capitulated to the destruction of the black man.



I really didn't want to get involved in this particular aspect of the conversation, HoBro, but you have forced my hand.

You will not ever hear me (or the 'crew' that i hang around) say that we don't need a man-because that is a flat out lie.




OK .... then maybe I'm not talking about you and your crew ... but I have heard others quite literally say those words ...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
munch

leave it alone HB...
(good deed of the day)


No need to 'leave anything alone'--we're just having a discussion.


I think I'll heed your words ... I'm not in the mood to alienate anyone today ...


If this comment is directed towards me, I'm not feeling alienated at all. You expressed your thoughts and I replied. I seldom to reply to many of the posts, even though I do read them. I was not trying to start a war--I was just jumping in on the conversation. Perhaps I should rethink that before I do it again. Maybe I'll just go back to drinking. beer
quote:
Originally posted by Tre:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
munch

leave it alone HB...
(good deed of the day)


No need to 'leave anything alone'--we're just having a discussion.


I think I'll heed your words ... I'm not in the mood to alienate anyone today ...


If this comment is directed towards me, I'm not feeling alienated at all. You expressed your thoughts and I replied. I seldom to reply to many of the posts, even though I do read them. I was not trying to start a war--I was just jumping in on the conversation. Perhaps I should rethink that before I do it again. Maybe I'll just go back to drinking. beer


Nevermind... I tried munch
Black women (and a few black men) tend to confuse spirituality with zeolotry. Last woman I went out with that was like this, I finally had to just come out say it: "Look dammitt, Jesus is not gonna marry you, put you in a home, or even take you to a stinkin movie. If he is, please tell him to get his butt here so he can take you off my hands. I coulda been at the sports bar by now hugged up with a Heinken and a big screen."
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Black women (and a few black men) tend to confuse spirituality with zeolotry. Last woman I went out with that was like this, I finally had to just come out say it: "Look dammitt, Jesus is not gonna marry you, put you in a home, or even take you to a stinkin movie. If he is, please tell him to get his butt here so he can take you off my hands. I coulda been at the sports bar by now hugged up with a Heinken and a big screen."


Hell ... yes ....

I once dated this one sista... I finally had to to tell her "Look dammit ... let Jesus keep your crazy azz company. I'm out of here."
HONEST BROTHER, AND GAMBIT!!! nono
THATS BAD FOR YOU TO SAY. I AM ASHAMED OF BOTH OF YOU. AGAIN, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL DONNA529, COMING BACK AS DONNA 12 (DONT ASK), ANYWAY, AS WOMEN WE TEND TO HAVE AN MENTAL LIST OF WHAT WE WANT IN A MAN, AND SOME OF US TEND TO TRY TO MAKE OUR MEN THAT WAY, AND THEN GET FRUSTRATED WHEN THEY DONOT RESPOND THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO.

I HAVE TO SAY LEAVE "JESUS" OUT OF IT. nono Wink I STILL LOVE YOU THOUGH LOL Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by donna12:
AGAIN, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL DONNA529, COMING BACK AS DONNA 12 (DONT ASK),


WHY?... Big Grin

quote:

ANYWAY, AS WOMEN WE TEND TO HAVE AN MENTAL LIST OF WHAT WE WANT IN A MAN, AND SOME OF US TEND TO TRY TO MAKE OUR MEN THAT WAY, AND THEN GET FRUSTRATED WHEN THEY DO NOT RESPOND THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO.


I've got my own spirituality ... What I want from my woman is for her to be my woman - not my spiritual guide ... What you should want in a man is that he "treats others as he wants to be treated." ... not that he "believes" in x, y, and, z ... Plenty of people "believe" in x, y, and z and still behave like devils ...

If you have a black man who has grown up in this world, has managed to avoid all the pitfalls set for him and to be successful, and is morally a good person, then you need to be thankful for whatever spirituality he already has that has allowed him to survive and prosper ... instead of trying to force your ideas upon a grown ass man that - if he's worth anything - should have his own ideas anyway.

Gambit said it best:

quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Black women (and a few black men) tend to confuse spirituality with zealotry.


Spirituality is about loving people and bringing light and healing into the world. Zealotry is about forcing your ideas on everyone around you.

Spirituality is about doing unto others as you would have them do onto you. Zealotry is about doing onto others what was done to you.

Spirituality is about others and their needs. Zealotry is about you and your needs.

It reminds me of something I heard Michael Eric Dyson say ... "We should be spreading the love of Jesus in the world ... not the belief in Jesus."

quote:

I STILL LOVE YOU THOUGH LOL Big Grin


And we still love you too, babe ... Smile
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quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
After reading Gambits threads, and the responses.......i sat and did some soul searching. Although im not gay/bi by any means.......i am starting to become disinterested in men.

If i meet someone nice, im always on edge.....'knowing' hes going to disappoint me, so i walk.

I guess im learning through 'others' experiences.

Are there any happy relationships out here, anymore...? Frown



I hear you 'qty226',

Except, I've not grown disinterested in men, but super suspicious of them when they approach me. I've met a few this year, who were of foreign birth, who 'asked my hand in marrige', [warning! green card alert]; and, I've met some who stated that they were single, only to find out that they were 'separated' and having problems, please do'nt make me, 'go between lady'. Roll Eyes

Anyway, I read in another post on this topic, that stated that women have 'a list'; well, I have critera, (same as list?), which generally includes, but is not limited to, gainfully employed, no prison record, teeth, or at least teeth in mouth, even if removable, and I despise 'shuck n' jive' talkers, men who use 'baby baby' slang, when they first meet me, high school or G.E.D., some college, of course the more the better, a sense of spirtuality, a thirst for knowledge, adventurous (I should post this in the singles on-line, lol!)and a relationship, if possible with his family. When more than 2 or 3 of these are missing, I get anxious. However, the pickings, are a bit slim in my city, so, I have amended these criteria/list; for example, I met a man a few days ago, who was hitting on me, hard with the 'aw baby you so pretty, you smell good' type of pick-up, but I said, let's try something new here, and I exchanged numbers with him, and am preparing to see him this weekend. We talked, and he is not gainfully employed, ok, let's see, he does'nt have a car; oh brother td6. Now what.

I have another 'friend' who is non-African American, and he has 'D', all of the above. But, I'm suspicious of him because, he is already trying to make me over, 'suggesting' what should wear, and we are not even an official couple/or regularly dating Roll Eyes

But, I do like him, but like many, I have gotten comfortable with hit and run relationships. Not disinterested, but looking at 'men folk', with squinty eye.
The one and only me/Nayo...

I think trust is a big issue, for a lot of women (and men).....and for me, i just dont feel like dealing with it.

I havent met a 'single' man yet.......and will not allow myself to get caught up in drama.

So im now, no longer looking......but looking to be happy with all thats going on in my life!!

Thats fair... Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
You are so right, qty. And the 'single' ones that I meet only want to see what I am made of, if you know what I mean...... Maybe I need to relocate. LOL



..."And the 'single' ones that I meet only want to see what I am made of..."


What does that mean? Sounds very familiar. We all want to know what a person is 'made of'; but what are you saying?
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
Ok, let me be more blunt on that one. The 'single' ones that I meet only want to see how I get down in bed. Clear enough?


uh, sure Roll Eyes

My point in asking was that other women who have made a very similar comment, generally meant that men generally wanted to see what they could get away with in a prospective relationship with them which included, but was not limited to:immediate sexual relations, threesomes, man-sharing, taking care them ie. giving them money, putting up with verbal abuse et.
Women kill me with all this arent any good men out there and all the men ive dated have disappointed me.Have you ever thought that many men feel the same way about women. I am so sick of this european fantacy of what a relationship is. I think many women are grommed by these fairy tales to think they will find a white knight in shinning armour. Get off that bullshyt, its not real, we are in a war for our survival we neet to think about how to build strong productive families. All most sistas read are they Eric Jerome Dickies and crap like that.I always ask women , "what is it do you want from a man" whats a good man too you" and to no suprise most have no idea what a good man is and really no idea what they want in a man. They wan the materialistic fantacy type relationship and there are no such thing.
Nayo: Gotcha.

Zakar: I am one of those women who has always been disappointed in the relationship area. But I have never and will not ever say that there are no good men out there. I believe in love and I believe that there is someone out there who is capable of loving me unconditionally the way that I love........ Does that mean that I am living in a fantasy world?

I had no idea that men feel disappointed by women. No one has ever voiced that to me. Sounds like a communication breakdown.

To ask a woman what she considers a good man is setting yourself up for confusion. That is wayyyy too subjective. My good man may not be another woman's definition of a good man as I am sure you and other gentlemen have different views of what a good woman is.
No that doesnt mean you are living in a fantacy world? but what love is really unconditional?

Im sure if you ask brothers on this board if they have been dissapointed by women many will say yes, including myself

How is asking a woman what she considers a good man confusing to me. Actually that would give me insight into the type of person she is. Of course people have different ideas of a good man, but if you have no idea what you think a good man is , how could you ever find one, thats my point.At least be able to articulate what you feel a good man is , thats my poi
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
No that doesnt mean you are living in a fantacy world? but what love is really unconditional?


Im sure if you ask brothers on this board if they have been dissapointed by women many will say yes, including myself

How is asking a woman what she considers a good man confusing to me. Actually that would give me insight into the type of person she is. Of course people have different ideas of a good man, but if you have no idea what you think a good man is , how could you ever find one, thats my point.At least be able to articulate what you feel a good man is , thats my poi


My simple answer to that is: Loving someone not BECAUSE of who they are but IN SPITE OF who they are.... There's more but thats just kinda "it" in a nutshell.

Ok, I got your point. We are on the same page, here.
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
No that doesnt mean you are living in a fantacy world? but what love is really unconditional?


Im sure if you ask brothers on this board if they have been dissapointed by women many will say yes, including myself

How is asking a woman what she considers a good man confusing to me. Actually that would give me insight into the type of person she is. Of course people have different ideas of a good man, but if you have no idea what you think a good man is , how could you ever find one, thats my point.At least be able to articulate what you feel a good man is , thats my poi


My simple answer to that is: Loving someone not BECAUSE of who they are but IN SPITE OF who they are.... There's more but thats just kinda "it" in a nutshell.

Ok, I got your point. We are on the same page, here.



No fantasy seeker here, but several of my black female aquaintances decided to accept the person they 'fell in love with', because they wanted to accept the person, regardless of their shortcomings. My girlfriend from Jr. High, met this guy several years ago, he had some issues, as do we all, but she said she would 'work with them', because love is about unconditional acceptance. After he became abusive, she attemtpted to move on, he said he was sorry; she took him back; to, to many times. The last time she allowed him to re-enter her life, was last year, Christmas, 2004, he stabbed her to death, placed her under the Xmas tree, and then went to her family's house and claimed he did'nt know where she was. We buried her on New Year's day, 2005. Now she was like many black women, before she met him, she was turning down guys, because they did'nt fit 'her criteria', but someone, said, stop fantasizing, and choose someone because he has prospects, he has potential, etc. Yeah, right.

I do'nt believe that black women, the one's I associate with, are seeking the 'white knight', because that has never, ever been an option; I think what we're seeking, is emotional compatibility, with 'some semblance of security'...and strong communication, friendship, good/sexual compatibility. If that is fantasy, than I need to check with the brothers' 'Grimm's. or maybe, grim is the reality.
First of all my sympathies go out to you, and the family of the young lady that was murdered. I would never try to defend and animal. He should be done like most animals with rabies, put down, but thats just me.

think what we're seeking, is emotional compatibility, with 'some semblance of security'...and strong communication, friendship, good/sexual compatibility

what exactly does this mean , emotionaly compatibility, semblence of security and strong communications skills?

Brothers are not emotional enough? we cannot communicate effectively. and i dont know what you mean by semblemce of security.

I do know what you mean on the sexual end, and maybe thats why women are with so called no good men, these men realize a lot of women defines a mans worth by how well he performs in the bed.
If he has the tools and can drive her wild in the bedroom, she usually will accept anything else , because so often her emotions are tied to sex
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
First of all my sympathies go out to you, and the family of the young lady that was murdered. I would never try to defend and animal. He should be done like most animals with rabies, put down, but thats just me.

think what we're seeking, is emotional compatibility, with 'some semblance of security'...and strong communication, friendship, good/sexual compatibility

what exactly does this mean , emotionaly compatibility, semblence of security and strong communications skills?

Brothers are not emotional enough? we cannot communicate effectively. and i dont know what you mean by semblemce of security.

I do know what you mean on the sexual end, and maybe thats why women are with so called no good men, these men realize a lot of women defines a mans worth by how well he performs in the bed.
If he has the tools and can drive her wild in the bedroom, she usually will accept anything else , because so often her emotions are tied to sex




A.) Emotional/interpersonal compatibility
Occurs when people find comfort and mutual understanding with another person.
For example, a quiet, reserved person may initially find a sociable person to be exciting. However, as time goes on they may find that the sociable person wants to talk more and participate with new people much more than the quiet person is comfortable with. These differences cause natural conflict but may be resolved as each person is seen as contributing something unique and special to the relationship (team). The sociable person can come to be seen as the spokesperson, while the quiet person can be valued as one who does more low-profile or hands-on types of work.

B.) By 'semblance of security', a persons' 'ability', and or skill, or drive to provide for their family's financial stability. This would include, having several skills and/or motivation to seek avenues to bring in [legal] income. ex. when my father was laid off from his job, when I was a child, he started his own 'maintanence' company, which did quite well, such that when his job wanted to re-hire him, he could turn them down, [actually, he took his old job, and hired others to keep his business going];another family member, when her husband became ill, took a job as a paralegal, and was able to keep the family going; once he recovered, their combined incomes, put the family back on top, so to speak.

C.) 'communication skills' - someone who can talk to me, not at me; whose nonverbal communication is compatible with mine/and or something that each party can learn relatively 'easily'; who does'nt shut down, when there is conflict; and who has an understanding of the 'pillow method' of interpersonal communication, ie. my point is valid, your point is valid, our points have their differing validity, compromise/negotiation;

D.) Sexual compatibility, while not the 'be all', and 'end all criteria of a relationship, IS important, and that includes, affection.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:


A.) Emotional/interpersonal compatibility
Occurs when people find comfort and mutual understanding with another person.
For example, a quiet, reserved person may initially find a sociable person to be exciting. However, as time goes on they may find that the sociable person wants to talk more and participate with new people much more than the quiet person is comfortable with. These differences cause natural conflict but may be resolved as each person is seen as contributing something unique and special to the relationship (team). The sociable person can come to be seen as the spokesperson, while the quiet person can be valued as one who does more low-profile or hands-on types of work.

B.) By 'semblance of security', a persons' 'ability', and or skill, or drive to provide for their family's financial stability. This would include, having several skills and/or motivation to seek avenues to bring in [legal] income. ex. when my father was laid off from his job, when I was a child, he started his own 'maintanence' company, which did quite well, such that when his job wanted to re-hire him, he could turn them down, [actually, he took his old job, and hired others to keep his business going];another family member, when her husband became ill, took a job as a paralegal, and was able to keep the family going; once he recovered, their combined incomes, put the family back on top, so to speak.

C.) 'communication skills' - someone who can talk to me, not at me; whose nonverbal communication is compatible with mine/and or something that each party can learn relatively 'easily'; who does'nt shut down, when there is conflict; and who has an understanding of the 'pillow method' of interpersonal communication, ie. my point is valid, your point is valid, our points have their differing validity, compromise/negotiation;

D.) Sexual compatibility, while not the 'be all', and 'end all criteria of a relationship, IS important, and that includes, affection.



appl
quote:
Originally posted by tru2urself16:
Okay I was browsing and came upon this and decided to post...

To answer your question "are there any happy relationships out there" I would have to say yes, I'm in one. I think you would probably see more happy relationships if you didn't walk into the "meeting" or whatever you want to call it expecting that person to be bad or not what your looking for. I have a little advice to give...stop living and going off of other people's experiences. I know that it's good to learn from others mistakes and stuff, but if you do that you run the risk of not finding your happiness. I also think that you should probably think about not looking for relationships or anything like that...take time to do some more soul searching and you'll find that you probably really aren't unattracted to men but your afraid of having your own bad stories to tell. I think it really just takes time and this whole I'm unattracted to men now days is just something most people go through...I know I did because I was witnessing and being apart of really bad and unhealthy relationships. But once I did some deep soul searching I relized what my problems were and how it was time that I fixed them and be happy with me and once I did that I found my man that I'm with now...I never would have thought that a drama free but loving relationship existed. Now I know it does.

So the best piece of advice there is to give is to just be with you and think of you and try to be open...everyone isn't like the last person you met or heard from Smile

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