Wow........

You can't be blamed for this. The reality is relationships are not in good shape and they're getting worse. If you did'nt have your guard up, you would be even angrier. You've been my homegirl for awhile now, so you know me pretty well. Don't take my comments as wanting relationships dead and buried. I just feel we need to change how we approach and deal with them. We've been doing the same things over and over with the same miserable results. We just need to blaze a new path is all...

I'm sure there is someone out there for you but as far as you becoming disinterested....no big deal. Take this time to enjoy yourself...

catch

Okay I was browsing and came upon this and decided to post...

To answer your question "are there any happy relationships out there" I would have to say yes, I'm in one. I think you would probably see more happy relationships if you didn't walk into the "meeting" or whatever you want to call it expecting that person to be bad or not what your looking for. I have a little advice to give...stop living and going off of other people's experiences. I know that it's good to learn from others mistakes and stuff, but if you do that you run the risk of not finding your happiness. I also think that you should probably think about not looking for relationships or anything like that...take time to do some more soul searching and you'll find that you probably really aren't unattracted to men but your afraid of having your own bad stories to tell. I think it really just takes time and this whole I'm unattracted to men now days is just something most people go through...I know I did because I was witnessing and being apart of really bad and unhealthy relationships. But once I did some deep soul searching I relized what my problems were and how it was time that I fixed them and be happy with me and once I did that I found my man that I'm with now...I never would have thought that a drama free but loving relationship existed. Now I know it does.

So the best piece of advice there is to give is to just be with you and think of you and try to be open...everyone isn't like the last person you met or heard from

quote:

i am starting to become disinterested in men.

Stop playing...

Say it aint so!!!!

Qty, your "disinterest" might just be a sign that you need to take some time out and devote it to taking care of yourself.

Please. It would be a shame if a woman as lovely as yourself became permanently cynical ...

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
After reading Gambits threads, and the responses.......i sat and did some soul searching. Although im not gay/bi by any means.......i am starting to become disinterested in men.

This is understandable... from a woman's vantage point, the relationships we sometimes have with men..

are painful...

and the attempts at reconciliation....
trying to get men to understand our hurt and pain and work with us to heal... can feel like an impossible task.....

I know very few women that do not go through some sort of "I need to remove myself from all men" phase...

trust me...

know that... in your pain is still a message of longing.... your post (please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your intent)... sounds like someone who has a missed opportunity...

it reads like:

"I want a man....... but have not found one yet... so... I'm going to give up.."

and oh how easy it is to do...

but one doesn't place such emotion (even negative) with something the person doesn't love (YEAH GAMBIT, I SAID IT!)...

When I would argue with my ex... I could always guage how important an issue was by how much emotion he put into his position, I didn't always agree... but I would step back a little, because I knew he needed space to be heard and understood....

Sometimes you may not be able to go to the source of your pain, a man may not be able to "hear" you....

but I wouldn't suggest going it alone, lest you fall into depression....

if there are men or women around you that allow your positive self to express itself, keep them around... don't cut yourself off...

males are plentiful.... but a man fitted for you may not be.... so... to find him, revel in what life has to offer you...

he'll find you there, or you will find each other...

when I was in college(before Islam), every man that I met seemed to want some part of me.... no one could accept the nuances of my personality.... I felt too complex, I felt like I had to be ONE thing for this guy and another thing for this one.... until I crashed because I didn't really like any of them, because they didn't truly like me... they couldn't possibly like me they didn't trulyKNOW me... they liked what aspect of me they saw....

so I got depressed, cut off everybody, and went into a bitter funk....

I talked to my cousin one day, and told her these things... and she said, "Sweetie, go involve yourself in "life" discover what things of life make you happy, pique your interest, etc.. and always make it known that you are available to share your experiences"... so, I did.. and well the result would have to be shared by PM

The point here is... contrary to removing yourself from men (negative reaction), replace your angst with a focus on the beauty of life from your stand point.... and you may find a beautiful man sharing your space within an hour, within days, weeks, months or a few years... don't shut the door, because he may be there now.... but at least, in the meantime, you'll be appreciating yourself more so that when you are ready for a relationship, it will happen, a relationship will come to you...

because it will be time....

quote:

If i meet someone nice, im always on edge.....'knowing' hes going to disappoint me, so i walk.

Because frankly, men disappoint based off of the standards we have... and some of our standards are so basic that haven't been met, we have to question whether or not its worth being with a man.... but, it is *erm* men rock!

When you're in a good relationship.... You know, it just feels good.... you feel good, better...

Men can be like drugs...

unfortunately, you just keep getting bad hits..

lol!

just tripping please don't take that seriously....

quote:

I guess im learning through 'others' experiences.

This is natural.. we often look around to guage and measure.... it can give us good perspective.... no one walks through life with blinders on....

but, be scientific in your study..... there are lots of bad relationships... yes... but let that be the control in your experiment (What NOT to do)..seek out what you see as "good" relationships and bring out your microscope... and let the findings soak your heart..

and give you hope..

quote:

Are there any happy relationships out here, anymore...?

Yes...

trust me..

PM me if you like...



Peace Sister,
Virtue

In todays reality, you must be prepared for anything. Like in my other thread "Hope for the Best but prepare for the worst". For instance, my divorce taught me that I had always been right. I allowed other peoples expectations to make me drop my guard. Luckily, my guard is never fully dropped. I've taken both monetary and legal steps to insure that, if I ever get involved with anyone again and the relationship is blissful or hell on earth, I'm alright. I won't actually lose anything of value or enable me to endure any hardship that might arise. I'm prepared. Never go into any encounter with blinders on,just because everyone else has a romance novel outlook. It's one thing to have an open mind, it's another to have a target on your chest.

Yes...

It is also imperative not to fear humanity.... not to fear vulnerability..... protection is wise... there is no either or here...

but you are not wrong or foolish for loving or wanting love...

we give family and babies love....

love being encompassed by compassion, tenderness, longing, caring, sweetness etc...

you do not have to give up strong affection for someone... to guard yourself....

for in giving up loving... you also give up being loved...

the opposite of love... is bitterness and hatred...

protect yourself from the pitfalls of Everything... including bad money investments... bad legal advise.... bad decision to fight... and bad decisions about love...

but do not cut of such an essential ingredient in the beauty of our lives....

again.... there is a process a method to follow... one should not give themselves willingly without protecting their heart... in Islam we have the courtship process... in the world we have our own wits and standards and patience as we mine through our relationships.... and those that are sustaining and have shown themselves worthy are what we keep..

the reward?

to know love and know what it means to be loved...

to not walk around in fear of men... hatred of men ... or bitterness of men... but wary enough of men so that your heart is not stomped on....

I mourn the day that society places material gain and material protection over and in place of sustenance for the heart.... love...

a cold society indeed...



Peace,
Virtue

quote:

Originally posted by virtue:
I mourn the day that society places material gain and material protection over and in place of sustenance for the heart.... love...

a cold society indeed...

But virtue, society has been that way since it's inception. Sustenance for the heart ie. love is a quaint and lovely ideal..but that's all it has ever been and will be...ideal. It's unobtainable as a greater whole. Love is akin to The Midgard Serpent of ancient Norse myth; It's naturally all consuming. The more you feed "love" the more it wants. That becomes all the traits that turn women and men into non trusting individuals. I hope this a good analogy I'm getting ready to use: Would I find qty226 desirable?..Hell yeah! Would I approach her with the expectation that on the slim and off chance,that not only will she fall for me but that she'll be all that my heart needs to be complete? No. I know that this against human nature. Will my guard be up with her? Yes. It has to be. Because I know, she and I are still human beings; and you should'nt trust another human being as far as you can throw the rotunda of the Capital Building. We are flawed beings; we are not inheriently noble and wanting "true love". Extend an olive branch with one hand, but keep a dagger hidden up the sleeve of the other; because it's better to be safe than sorry.

Peace....

The way i see it...

A relationship cannot begin with two people who do not need one another. If I am complete, and whole without a woman, then I am being selfish by inviting someone into my perfect life, the same as a woman would be wrong for inviting me into her perfected life. When we have found something perfect, we do not want anyone to mess with it. We invite them in, however with endless rules.

We should know that a good fulfilling relationship is one where both people enter into the relationship imperfect striving to become better and realizing that they need one another on the journey toward self improvement.

If we do not expect perfection we open our partner to the opportunity to bear themselves in all of their imperfections, and by allowing this we make room for them to work on overcoming them.

The relationship is sweet when both people work together on the same objective. When you find a partner, you have found an ally. This is the where love is formed...

If you are to ever find love, you must open yourself to being hurt..You cannot find love and have a backdoor escape route.



Kai

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
..i am starting to become disinterested in men....

Same here, Qty, you're not alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Tre:

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
..i am starting to become disinterested in men....

Same here, Qty, you're not alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....

The way i see it...

A relationship cannot begin with two people who do not need one another. If I am complete, and whole without a woman, then I am being selfish by inviting someone into my perfect life, the same as a woman would be wrong for inviting me into her perfected life. When we have found something perfect, we do not want anyone to mess with it. We invite them in, however with endless rules.

We should know that a good fulfilling relationship is one where both people enter into the relationship imperfect striving to become better and realizing that they need one another on the journey toward self improvement.

If we do not expect perfection we open our partner to the opportunity to bear themselves in all of their imperfections, and by allowing this we make room for them to work on overcoming them.

The relationship is sweet when both people work together on the same objective. When you find a partner, you have found an ally. This is the where love is formed...

If you are to ever find love, you must open yourself to being hurt..You cannot find love and have a backdoor escape route.



Kai

I must say that I strongly agree with this...

quote:

Originally posted by virtue:

quote:

Originally posted by Tre:

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
..i am starting to become disinterested in men....

Same here, Qty, you're not alone.

Sorry i havent been around to respond to this forum.......my life is changing, so i've been a little busy.

What i've noticed is that most here, feel i should take this time, for myself. Actually im doing just that. Im not a serial dater, and i get to the point where i think about being in a relationship.

But i think Virtue really hit home my feelings...

"I want a man....... but have not found one yet... so... I'm going to give up.."

Yes, this causes me to withdraw.....


Saracens Comment, gave me food for thought....

Maybe im running into men that already have perfect lives. Their jobs, homes, cars.....and really have no need for a woman in my position.

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

This sounds harsh.....but i guess i understand.

*Im going to be single for a longgggg time*

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

That's the thing of it, Qty, no one is perfect...we're all imperfect. That's the beauty of real love. It makes up for those imperfections.

This sounds harsh.....but i guess i understand.

*Im going to be single for a longgggg time*

Only God can tell the future, so you don't know how long you'll be single. We may be having this same conversation a year from now, and you'll be in the process of making your wedding plans. If that's the case, I'm gonna remind you of this post.

quote:

Originally posted by Tre:

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

That's the thing of it, Qty, no one is perfect...we're all imperfect. That's the beauty of real love. It makes up for those imperfections.

This sounds harsh.....but i guess i understand.

*Im going to be single for a longgggg time*

Only God can tell the future, so you don't know how long you'll be single. We may be having this same conversation a year from now, and you'll be in the process of making your wedding plans. If that's the case, I'm gonna remind you of this post.

This made me feel so much better......

Thanks...

*ohh btw, if you know a nice brotha......uummm give him my numba* LOL

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:



This made me feel so much better......

Thanks...

You're my sista, girl--no need for thanks.

*ohh btw, if you know a nice brotha......uummm give him my numba* LOL

I was just about to ask you the same thing.

Originally posted by qty226:
Sorry i havent been around to respond to this forum.......my life is changing, so i've been a little busy.

What i've noticed is that most here, feel i should take this time, for myself. Actually im doing just that. Im not a serial dater, and i get to the point where i think about being in a relationship.

But i think Virtue really hit home my feelings...

"I want a man....... but have not found one yet... so... I'm going to give up.."

Yes, this causes me to withdraw.....


Saracens Comment, gave me food for thought....

Maybe im running into men that already have perfect lives. Their jobs, homes, cars.....and really have no need for a woman in my position.

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

This sounds harsh.....but i guess i understand.

*Im going to be single for a longgggg time*


-----------------------

Qty, being single for a longgggggg time is much better than being with someone when it isn't quite right, or rushing it. I know ALL about rushing things. After my divorce I was engaged again within a year. I can honestly say, I truly truly LOVED this man [my ex fiance]. . .and I know he loved me too. We had so much in common; he was my best friend in the whole wide world.

But he also wanted a house full of children. I almost married him knowing I didn't feel the same way. I'm just not cut out for a house full of kids, and at my age now, I'd only be willing to have 1 or 2 more--MAYBE!!!!

It came down to this -- he wanted more than I was willing to give, and he deserved to have what he wanted in life. . .even if it didn't include me.

When I look at it now. . .I am sooooooooo glad I didn't marry him. As much as I loved him, I am sooooooooooooooooo glad I do not have a house full of kids. It just wasn't right that I marry him feeling this way. Eventually, I broke it off. . .and it was a hard thing to do because I loved him.

Still, I'm glad I chose not to get married at the time. Being single is cool for me right now.

And the next man in my life won't need a 100 kids to call him "daddy." lol

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a house full of kids????

{Fab Faints}

quote:

Originally posted by Fabulous:
Being single is cool for me right now.

Yoda himself could'nt have said it any better or wiser.

Being single is the best state of being there is. I've learned my lesson. To use those immortal words everyone knows..."NEVER AGAIN"

Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Being single is cool for me right now.
-------------------------



Yoda himself could'nt have said it any better or wiser.

Being single is the best state of being there is. I've learned my lesson. To use those immortal words everyone knows..."NEVER AGAIN"

--------------------------

Yes, Qty226 ... there are! Don't give up! 

That ˜knowing' you have may not be such a bad thing! I believe a lot of us put so much energy into "looking" for that Mr./Mrs. Somebody when in reality, we already know who and what he/she is. We all have the checklist of "gotta have this and needs to have that" and the person that doesn't fit that bill is really just a waste of time! And sometimes you have time to waste ... and sometimes you don't! But I digress ... lol

You shouldn't lower your basic standards of what you want in a mate, because for most of us, it's really not asking too much, and God did make such people ... ˜cause just look at yourself!  Just because you haven't found him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. It just means that he hasn't crossed your path. And instead of looking for him, just know to know him when you see him. And don't let him get away. He'll be worth your time and your interest. And you'll know it pretty quickly, because having those "basics" which is what attracted you to him (and vice versa) in the first place.

And another thing that might help you see him better is that it's really important to realize that your next man is not any of the men that you've been with in the past. And their sins are not his! He's a unique individual (all men are, really!). And though society has shaped a lot of behaviors, you're probably not looking for somebody who has many/any of those! lol

So, in the meantime, enjoy yourself through your singleness, make you who you want to be, and be ready for your honey when the time is right!  That way, there'll be less time to waste ... and may find yourself going from hook-up to happiness in no time flat!


And xxGAMBITxx ...

I really do hope your heart will heal one day! . While I'm sure you have plenty of reason to be angry and anti right now, you've got a big heart and too much love in it to keep it under Fort Knox conditions! It's not fair to you ... and you'll be much happier when/if you ever decide to share it with someone special!

But "the wall must come down" first! Just don't forget that in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
Sorry i havent been around to respond to this forum.......my life is changing, so i've been a little busy.

This is a good thing, yes?

quote:

What i've noticed is that most here, feel i should take this time, for myself. Actually im doing just that. Im not a serial dater, and i get to the point where i think about being in a relationship.

Just for a little clarity, those weren't exactly my sentiments.... I believe you are taking time for yourself, hence your juris doctorate pursuit... you don't seem to be sitting around...

Allow yourself to take in more of what's around you....and explore more...

you could walk down the same path hundreds of times without noticing your favorite flower amongst the bushes..... because you are too busy or are too distracted with other things to notice..

be in this moment, sister...

quote:

But i think Virtue really hit home my feelings...

"I want a man....... but have not found one yet... so... I'm going to give up.."

Yes, this causes me to withdraw.....

Qty... I identify with you in so many ways..... but, I think you know this.... you are withdrawing as a protective measure from what you perceive as reality...... this is wise.... all I'm suggesting, dear sister is to look upon reality once more, do not give up on it and write a conclusion so fast..... especially not about something so necessary in one's life..... love is a need, not a want.... without it, there are consequences... you can survive without it.... that is not the kind of "need" of which I'm referring.... however, you cannot "thrive" without it..... yep, I said it....

quote:

Saracens Comment, gave me food for thought....

Maybe im running into men that already have perfect lives. Their jobs, homes, cars.....and really have no need for a woman in my position.

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

Saracen is Kai.... I don't think that was his point.... not an imperfect man.... a real one.... one that's perfect for you.... one that sees value in who you are now, as a valued addition to his (not perfect life)... but slightly unfulfilled one... he wants you, because he does not have it altogether.... at least not in matters of the heart.... men need love too.... whether they admit this or not..... ummmmm lawd, can't believe I'm going to say this.... but, girl, just know that there are stone cold men out there, but when the right woman for him is allowed in, he will readily open his heart to her.... but he has to be inspired by her....

and trust her.....

*erm* "trust me"

quote:

This sounds harsh.....but i guess i understand.

*Im going to be single for a longgggg time*

Maybe, maybe not.... but I hope dear sister you make a sincere attempt to participate in those arenas that bring you joy...... single or not.... you only have one life...


savor each moment...


Peace,
Virtue

quote:

Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....

The way i see it...

A relationship cannot begin with two people who do not need one another. If I am complete, and whole without a woman, then I am being selfish by inviting someone into my perfect life, the same as a woman would be wrong for inviting me into her perfected life. When we have found something perfect, we do not want anyone to mess with it. We invite them in, however with endless rules.

We should know that a good fulfilling relationship is one where both people enter into the relationship imperfect striving to become better and realizing that they need one another on the journey toward self improvement.

If we do not expect perfection we open our partner to the opportunity to bear themselves in all of their imperfections, and by allowing this we make room for them to work on overcoming them.

The relationship is sweet when both people work together on the same objective. When you find a partner, you have found an ally. This is the where love is formed...

If you are to ever find love, you must open yourself to being hurt..You cannot find love and have a backdoor escape route.



Kai

That's nice. Poetic even. But then,there is real life.

quote:

Originally posted by nayo:
We should know that a good fulfilling relationship is one where both people enter into the relationship imperfect

sounds like what I said.

If you are to ever find love, you must open yourself to being hurt..You cannot find love and have a backdoor escape route.

Kai

That's nice. Poetic even. But then,there is real life.[/QUOTE]

Yet Kai's quote is very true.

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
And xxGAMBITxx ...

I really do hope your heart will heal one day! . While I'm sure you have plenty of reason to be angry and anti right now, you've got a big heart and too much love in it to keep it under Fort Knox conditions! It's not fair to you ... and you'll be much happier when/if you ever decide to share it with someone special!

But "the wall must come down" first! Just don't forget that in the future.

I thank you. I don't think I've ever been considered "having a big heart".. ..I usually try to avoid showing that.

Seriously though, I'm content. I've got my daughter, I've got my health (mental and physical) and I'm getting all of my goals achieved day by day. I really can't ask for anything more than that. I'm in a good place..

quote:

Originally posted by nayo:

That's nice. Poetic even. But then,there is real life.

Curious, why do you say this nayo?



Peace,
Virtue

quote:

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

And that is EXACTLY what you will need to do. Why? Because there is no such thing as a perfect man.

Your MAN, wherever he is now, will always be IMPERFECT.

Now, if you are talking about NOT LOWERING your standards to secure a man, then that is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:

quote:

So i guess my job is to wait.......for an imperfect man.

And that is EXACTLY what you will need to do. Why? Because there is no such thing as a perfect man.

Your MAN, wherever he is now, will always be IMPERFECT.

Now, if you are talking about NOT LOWERING your standards to secure a man, then that is a good thing.

This was nice......

quote:

Originally posted by virtue:
Maybe, maybe not.... but I hope dear sister you make a sincere attempt to participate in those arenas that bring you joy...... single or not.... you only have one life...


savor each moment...


Peace,
Virtue

Very true ... enjoy this life ... you're young ... you still have a lot about yourself to discover ... enjoy the ride ... and one day when you're in wonder and awe over the magnificent woman you'll become .... you'll look up ... and your imperfect man won't be far away ....

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
After reading Gambits threads, and the responses.......i sat and did some soul searching. Although im not gay/bi by any means.......i am starting to become disinterested in men.

If i meet someone nice, im always on edge.....'knowing' hes going to disappoint me, so i walk.

I guess im learning through 'others' experiences.

Are there any happy relationships out here, anymore...?

Yes, QTY226, there are good relationships out there. Yes, you to will be happy and in love one day soon. Until that time, make sure that you have a full and complete life in your own right. It is the sad woman who defines her reality by whether or not she has a man. Just be happy within yourself and with your life as it is right now and you will naturally attract the guy who wants you for you. My ski buddie when to a women's financial conference. She got a tee shirt that I think says it all. On the front of this hot pink tee shirt is a green frog with a lop sided crown. It says above the frog, "Never Kissed a Frog."

On the back it says "Never Had To. Its called financial independance!" I love it.

Remember you are young, free and have discretionary income.

You are the companion he is looking for, the bible says "To find a Wife is a good thing" it says nothing about finding a husband. So let him find you. You only need one.

qty, I believe that what your are seeking is balance. Let me know if I'm off base on this. You desire all your personal, financial, career, goals met and you don't want to have all that and end up not sharing your life with anyone. That is reasonable and understandable (yes, even for me... ). You see to many women today with a "Do me" attitude and they're doing themselves literally. They have no one and you don't want to end up like that. You don't have to. Keep your standards, make sure he has comparable standards, and you can have a happy relationship. But until then, single is alright. Enjoy getting your goals achieved right now. The man/relationship thang can happen afterward. Just make sure its an equitable partnership.

I've had this conversation with my girl friends, and they are disappointed as well.

Since im dealing with my educational/career goals........im always thinking about whats next, prior to it happening. I have always made goals.....and being in a relationship, was one of those goals. But since im always either disappointed, or unhappy...........i'll chill for a moment, and try to enjoy being single, enjoying my life.

I agree with all that mentioned this.......


Gambit.........yes, i thought maybe having a career, and someone to love, and spend time with.......would give me that "balance". But i have to be happy with me......and being single.

So im officially off the market......until he finds 'me'.

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
So im officially off the market......until he finds 'me'.

Qty, just do me a favor ... don't be one of those sistas who

1) Go to a party with their girls and - the ENTIRE NIGHT LONG - form in a circle so tight amongst themselves that they neither meet anyone new (male or female) nor make themselves available to meet anyone new.

2) Never go anywhere and wonder why you don't meet anyone.

3) Never go to new places or try new things and wonder why you meet the same old people and the same types of people.

4) Get super involved in church and use Jesus as a man substitute.

If you do these things, "he" won't have a chance to find you ....

Having said that ... travel the world ... tour the motherland ... join a book club ... frequent your favorite cafe where they do slam poetry ... write a novel ... go to the beach ... and have a great life!

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
So im officially off the market......until he finds 'me'.

Good for you, Qty.

quote:

discretionary income

Discretionary income don't make love, babies, or happiness.

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:
So im officially off the market......until he finds 'me'.

Qty, just do me a favor ... don't be one of those sistas who

1) Go to a party with their girls and - the ENTIRE NIGHT LONG - form in a circle so tight amongst themselves that they neither meet anyone new (male or female) nor make themselves available to meet anyone new.

2) Never go anywhere and wonder why you don't meet anyone.

3) Never go to new places or try new things and wonder why you meet the same old people and the same types of people.

4) Get super involved in church and use Jesus as a man substitute.

If you do these things, "he" won't have a chance to find you ....

Having said that ... travel the world ... tour the motherland ... join a book club ... frequent your favorite cafe where they do slam poetry ... write a novel ... go to the beach ... and have a great life!

HB...this was really nice!! Doing all of this, should keep me busy for a while.



Tre.....

quote:

Get super involved in church and use Jesus as a man substitute.

That is the worst thing you could do.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
That is the worst thing you could do.

I beg your pardon?