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quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

Furthermore, men should really not do this. You all very rarely have even an inkling of what goes on with sista's hair. It is not just perm or natural. There are texturizers, waves, organic perms, comb-throughs, and all sorts of things in between. There are women with naturally straight hair. Qty is a brown-skinned sista who's hair naturally grows straight. You cannot just look at a woman and tell automatically what the hell is in her hair. I could take you down some aisles in Sally's Beauty Supply that would humble that ass! We can do no less than a million and one things with our hair, with chemicals, without chemicals, you name it. Fall back and observe and appreciate whatever beauty is coming your way! girl




Im speechless, after reading this thread!!

Shango67.......you really should do your reseach, prior to making these types of comments.



Frenchy, this was on point.

This is yet another way to attack sistas.....and im tired of it. We better start realizing that NOT all black women have the same texture hair........and i be damned if this will give me another complex.......concerning my skin color, features or hair.

Im tired of trying to fit in......gimmie a break!!

Everyone has preferences........but if a black man is going to define who i am as a person, because of my hair texture, or the way i wear my hair.........then its his loss.



"It would be refreshing to see a movement of Black women spending money to get nappy hair. I would celebrate in the street."
-Shango67

Why in the hell, would you want a sista to put any type of chemicals in her hair?
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
A dress code to work is altogether different from altering your hair. Following codified rules of dress in the workplace is incongruent to supporting a pathological legacy of altering your hair to fit in.


I disagree. Wearing the so-called "monkey suit" to work requires the same degree of conformity to cultural norms and standards as wearing the hair straightened. Even White women with course and frizzy hair are inclined to have their hair straightened or tied back in a bun for a more conservative appearance. You might recall Me'shell N'degeochello wrote a song about this topic called "Souls on Ice" which talks about Black men who conform to a "Brooks Brother" suit standard to get a job in corporate America.

quote:
Besides, I take my suit and tie off after work. And also, I have been known to wear African clothing to work (not the pants - just the tops).


That is impressive, and I'm sure that you look very handsome sporting these tops. But unfortunately, most men consistently wear a suit and tie to work. Wearing African clothing, even partially, is not the norm.

quote:
Brothers live in amerikkkan society with the same issues of beauty as our women - but rebel.


Usually, those that "rebel" are self-employed, underemployed, or jobless. The majority of Black men, however, who are employed in conservative work environments adhere to cultural norms by keeping their hair closely cut to the scalp. They never allow their hair to grow out. This decision is also an act of conformity.

quote:
TAKE OF THE DAMN BARBIE DOLL MAKE-UP. Rosey Cheeks, Blush, Foundation, Mascara, Eye Shadow, Powder... YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING! You go to bed at night looking like comedy and wake up in the morning with the face of tragedy. It is a sickness. Do you know how impossible it is to get the white girls make up off the pillow case? All you beautiful queens need is some shea butter, lip balm, a proper diet and your skin will be fine.


Now, you are intentionally being disrespectful, which is unnecessary and also disappointing. Even "African queens" of the past adorned themselves by wearing wigs, makeup, perfumes, jewelry, etc. to meet a cultural aesthetic. You might even be shocked to learn that African men, representing certain tribes in Africa adorn themselves with makeup during mating rituals to make themselves more attractive to young females. So let's not be ignorant. If you have no appreciation for adornment and prefer women who come out of the house looking like the walking dead (e.g., wearing no makeup, no attention given to the hair, no interesting appearance whatsoever, "Plain Janes", etc.), then simply admit to this. But don't belittle women (and men) who do put forth the effort to beautify themselves.

And by the way, there is a minor correlation between acne and wearing makeup. Acne is really a hereditary skin disorder and is the result of overacting sebaceous glands (secreting oil glands), poor diet, and lack of exercise. The advantage to having oily skin, however, is that people with oily skin will look younger for a longer period of time than their dry-skinned counterparts. But even men, who never wear makeup suffer from acne.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
I disagree. Wearing a "monkey suit" to work requires the same sense of conformity to cultural norms and standards as wearing the hair straightened. Even White women with course and frizzy hair are inclined to have their hair straightened or tied back in a bun for a more conservative look. You might remember Me'shell N'degeochello wrote a song about this topic called "Souls on Ice" which talks about Black men who conform to a "Brooks Brother" suit standard to get a job in corporate America.


quote:
Unfortunately those that "rebel" are usually self-employed, underemployed, and/or jobless. The majority of Black men, however, who are employed in conservative work environments adhere to cultural norms by keeping their hair closely cut to the scalp. They never allow their hair to grow out. This decision is also an act of conformity.

This is wonderful... Roll Eyes Now we've swung in the exact opposite direction.

Sister Rowe, please explain how wearing a suit and tie and a closely cropped hair cut is detrimental in any way, to Black men or to the Black community.

While you're pondering that, I'll tell you what I think is detrimental...

I think it's ridiculous for people like you and Shango to go around questioning other people's Blackness based such superficial evidence of "conformity". Conformity is not a bad thing... so long as it's a logical, rational choice designed to bring one closer to their goals. I find your and Shango's position on this issue to be outrageously snobish and unnecessarily divisive. Perhaps you should save your judgements for when your people do something that actually hurts you.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:

Furthermore, men should really not do this. You all very rarely have even an inkling of what goes on with sista's hair. It is not just perm or natural. There are texturizers, waves, organic perms, comb-throughs, and all sorts of things in between. There are women with naturally straight hair. Qty is a brown-skinned sista who's hair naturally grows straight. You cannot just look at a woman and tell automatically what the hell is in her hair. I could take you down some aisles in Sally's Beauty Supply that would humble that ass! We can do no less than a million and one things with our hair, with chemicals, without chemicals, you name it. Fall back and observe and appreciate whatever beauty is coming your way! girl




Im speechless, after reading this thread!!

Shango67.......you really should do your reseach, prior to making these types of comments.



Frenchy, this was on point.

This is yet another way to attack sistas.....and im tired of it. We better start realizing that NOT all black women have the same texture hair........and i be damned if this will give me another complex.......concerning my skin color, features or hair.

Im tired of trying to fit in......gimmie a break!!

Everyone has preferences........but if a black man is going to define who i am as a person, because of my hair texture, or the way i wear my hair.........then its his loss.



"It would be refreshing to see a movement of Black women spending money to get nappy hair. I would celebrate in the street."
-Shango67

Why in the hell, would you want a sista to put any type of chemicals in her hair?

Why ask me a question when my answer will be deemed unworthy.

And newsflash sis... AS A BLACK MAN I HAVE THE RIGHT, OBLIGATION, AND DUTY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE DIRECTION OF BLACK WOMEN. Just as sistas, and all of you make sure to contribute to the body of heavy duty Black male bashing, have the right, duty, and obligation to check us when we are bugging out. This is a concept that seems to be wasted on folks raised on the wisdom of Mary J. Blige and Lil Kim.
quote:
Sister Rowe, please explain how wearing a suit and tie and a closely cropped hair cut is detrimental in any way, to Black men or to the Black community.


Brother Viking, I never said wearing a suit and keeping the hair cut is detrimental to anyone. Unlike some other folks, I think a certain degree of conformity is necessary, and not only necessary, but unavoidable. My only interest in this discussion is to help Brother Shango to see the relationship between how Black women and Black men conform to Western codes of dress. Both of us are existing in this place and both of us are subjected to European standards of appearance. What I can't stand is when people who have very little appreciation for image impose their old-fashioned, fudamentalist views of image on those of us that do. Just because you don't give a damn about the way you look or the clothes that you wear does not give you a license to put down folks that do. I may not wear my hair chemically-straightened, but I am not going to ignorantly disrespect women that do. Constructive and informed criticism is tolerable, but outright disrespect, no. That kind of behavior is unacceptable and I think either this discussion needs to be reported or someone needs to reveiw AA.org's code of conduct.
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quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
And newsflash sis... AS A BLACK MAN I HAVE THE RIGHT, OBLIGATION, AND DUTY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE DIRECTION OF BLACK WOMEN. Just as sistas, and all of you make sure to contribute to the body of heavy duty Black male bashing, have the right, duty, and obligation to check us when we are bugging out. This is a concept that seems to be wasted on folks raised on the wisdom of Mary J. Blige and Lil Kim.


Brother, simply because others may bring themselves down to a lowly state of behavior does not mean that you have to go down with them. You can hold yourself up to a higher standard. That is a little thing that we like to call MATURITY. Behaving and talking like a fool just because others are behaving and talking like fools shows a poor grade of character. For some reason, I thought that you knew better and I am disappointed. Frown
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Sister Rowe, please explain how wearing a suit and tie and a closely cropped hair cut is detrimental in any way, to Black men or to the Black community.


Brother Viking, I never said wearing a suit and keeping the hair cut is detrimental to anyone. Unlike some other folks, I think a certain degree of conformity is necessary, and not only necessary, but unavoidable. My only interest in this discussion is to help Brother Shango to see the relationship between how Black women and Black men conform to Western codes of dress. Both of us are existing in this place and both of us are subjected to European standards of appearance. What I can't stand is when people who have very little appreciation for image impose their old-fashioned, fudamentalist views of image on those that do. Just because you don't give a damn about the way you look or the clothes that you wear does not give you a license to put down folks that do. I may not wear my hair chemically-straightened, but I am not going to ignorantly disrespect women that do. That kind of behavior is unacceptable and I think either this discussion needs to be reported or someone needs to reveiw AA.org's code of conduct.

Okay... I misunderstood your previous statements. My apologies, Sister. hat
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Okay... I misunderstood your previous statements. My apologies, Sister. hat


No problem! I don't wear my hair straightened, but as a former stylist, I understand why some women want this style. Black people do not live in an isolated, boxed-in world. I do realize this you know.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

And newsflash sis... AS A BLACK MAN I HAVE THE RIGHT, OBLIGATION, AND DUTY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE DIRECTION OF BLACK WOMEN. Just as sistas, and all of you make sure to contribute to the body of heavy duty Black male bashing, have the right, duty, and obligation to check us when we are bugging out. This is a concept that seems to be wasted on folks raised on the wisdom of Mary J. Blige and Lil Kim.




I disagree.........just because youre a black man, doesnt justify your authority over 'our' (black womens) direction.

Thats reserved for black men that are experienced and wise enough to lead, not only black women in the community.......but also black men.


Your comment concerning how "folks" were raised........is lame.

.........And so is your point of view, concerning this subject.

I really thought you were smarter than this.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I disagree.........just because youre a black man, doesnt justify your authority over 'our' (black womens) direction.

Thats reserved for black men that are experienced and wise enough to lead, not only black women in the community.......but also black men.


Your comment concerning how "folks" were raised........is lame.

.........And so is your point of view, concerning this subject.

I really thought you were smarter than this.


Sister, I'm disappointed too. I thought this 'Shango' brother was more put together than this. Him and Sister Ebony had some words, but that's no reason to come in here making inflammatory and disrespectful comments about women's image. That is not right to me. I think something is going to have to be done.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I disagree.........just because youre a black man, doesnt justify your authority over 'our' (black womens) direction.

Thats reserved for black men that are experienced and wise enough to lead, not only black women in the community.......but also black men.


Your comment concerning how "folks" were raised........is lame.

.........And so is your point of view, concerning this subject.

I really thought you were smarter than this.


Sister, I'm disappointed too. I thought this 'Shango' brother was more put together. Him and Sister Ebony had some words, but that's no reason to come in here making inflammatory and disrespectful comments about women's image. That is not right to me. I think something is going to have to be done.


I can understand his heart felt opinion.......when its given as such. But this was a forum directly hitting and tearing down the beauty of black women.

We fight this everyday.....and it hurts.

I just needed him to understand that.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I can understand his heart felt opinion.......when its given as such. But this was a forum directly hitting and tearing down the beauty of black women.

We fight this everyday.....and it hurts.

I just needed him to understand that.


It's ok sister because we are going to pull through this. Black people, sometimes we build each up and we tear each other down. But I think we should always maintain at least some level of respect. And I'm not excusing some of the behaviors of our sisters, but brothers need to understand that there are a lot politics involved when it comes to a Black woman's hair. Men can get away with not broadcasting their political views by keeping the hair cut low, but generally women have only two options: let the hair grow natural or get a perm. Unfortunately, the former will always be viewed as a "political statement." Never does it dawn on people that some women wear their hair natural because it is healthier to do so or the hair is thin and susceptible to breakage.

Even today, as I wear my hair natural, I still get ignorant people coming up to me to ask "Are you a Rastafarian?" or "Are you a 'radical' Muslim?" or "Do you hate White people?" JUST BECAUSE MY HAIR IS NATURAL! Understandably, some women just don't want to have to deal with all of this, all of the questions, all of the constant harrassment, all of the constant touching on your hair, and the childish whispers behind your back. IT IS A LOT TO DEAL WITH.
quote:
Correct the mistake AND STOP BLAMING BLACK MEN FOR THE REASON AS TO WHY YOU ENGAGE IN SUCH FOOLISHNESS

nono
Stop it...the brothers are not that enlightened.

The "white standard" of beauty that we are constantly subjected to and bombarded with does not ONLY affect the mentality of our women.

Like one of the women shared women do these things to please men. They wear clothing, makeup, and hairstyles to get our attention as well and please us

I have a friend now who will not admit it but is obsessed with the white standard of beauty. If a sister has her hair in a natural state she is automatically "ugly" or her hair is "messed up" in his opinion. And his opinion is that of many black men.

So before we jump on the sisters and preach to them about them being brainwashed by the white man blah blah blah...how about preaching to the brothers...cause they need it just as bad
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
A dress code to work is altogether different from altering your hair. Following codified rules of dress in the workplace is incongruent to supporting a pathological legacy of altering your hair to fit in.


I disagree. Wearing a "monkey suit" to work requires the same degree of conformity to cultural norms and standards as wearing the hair straightened. Even White women with course and frizzy hair are inclined to have their hair straightened or tied back in a bun for a more conservative look. You might recall Me'shell N'degeochello wrote a song about this topic called "Souls on Ice" which talks about Black men who conform to a "Brooks Brother" suit standard to get a job in corporate America.

quote:
Besides, I take my suit and tie off after work. And also, I have been known to wear African clothing to work (not the pants - just the tops).


That is impressive and I'm sure you look very handsome, but unfortunately, most men consistently wear a suit and tie to work. Wearing African clothing, even partially is not the norm.

quote:
Brothers live in amerikkkan society with the same issues of beauty as our women - but rebel.


Usually, those that "rebel" are self-employed, underemployed, or jobless. The majority of Black men, however, who are employed in conservative work environments adhere to cultural norms by keeping their hair closely cut to the scalp. They never allow their hair to grow out. This decision is also an act of conformity.

quote:
TAKE OF THE DAMN BARBIE DOLL MAKE-UP. Rosey Cheeks, Blush, Foundation, Mascara, Eye Shadow, Powder... YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING! You go to bed at night looking like comedy and wake up in the morning with the face of tragedy. It is a sickness. Do you know how impossible it is to get the white girls make up off the pillow case? All you beautiful queens need is some shea butter, lip balm, a proper diet and your skin will be fine.


Now, you are intentionally being disrespectful, which is unnecessary and also disappointing. Even "African queens" of the past adorned themselves by wearing wigs, makeup, perfumes, jewelry, etc. to meet a cultural aesthetic. You might even be shocked to learn that African men, representing certain tribes in Africa adorn themselves with makeup during mating rituals to make themselves more attractive to young females. So let's not be ignorant. If you have no appreciation for adornment and prefer women who come out of the house looking like the walking dead (e.g., wearing no makeup, no attention given to the hair, no interesting appearance whatsoever, "Plain Janes", etc.), then simply admit to this. But don't belittle women and men who do put forth the effort to beautify themselves.

And by the way, there is a minor correlation between acne and wearing makeup. Acne is really a hereditary skin disorder and is the result of overacting sebaceous glands (secreting oil glands), poor diet, and lack of exercise. The advantage to having oily skin, however, is that people with oily skin will look younger for a longer period of time than their dry-skinned counterparts. But even men, who never wear makeup suffer from acne.

Stop it already. You can't trick me with the "men and women from African tribes" skit. I don't refer to any African society as a "tribe." But, as an African centered Pan African who knows better and lived and organized in Africa, I am well aquainted with the traditions of men and women in Akebulan (Kush, Kemet, and Nubia).

What we do to ourselves in the country is NOT under the influence of Africa, but more because of the seasoning provided by white supremacy... attacking our immutable characteristics... attacking our hair with harsh chemicals not fit for human use... carving away at the nose... thining the lips... reducing the hips... color contacts not to see but to look "exotic" ... are all self loathing behaviors UNRELATED to Africa. In second thought, the behaviors are related to Africa in the sense that Black folks spend time trying to get away from the continent in name, spirit, and physicality. Black women in amerikkka do not make themselves up from an African centered standpoint and you know it.

------

I do not work in a corporate environment and I don't ever intend to. However, we disagree on the monkey suit issue. Since I don't accept the premise of your arguement, there is not need to continue looking at the analogy.

By the way, sistas wear the same MONKEY SUIT, but in the corporate environment they must smile and wear the top two buttons of the blouse open enough so John Q. Cracker can get a good look. And along with the bone straight perm and blond highlights, you are certainly going to go places me and my monkey suit can only enter if we are hand delivering the mail.
quote:
That kind of behavior is unacceptable and I think either this discussion needs to be reported or someone needs to reveiw AA.org's code of conduct.

C E N S O R S H I P!!!!

Are you kidding? I am being disrespectful (whatever that means) becuase I challenge Black women to discover their REAL beauty and stop running around trying to fit the image of white trash?????

Pure Comedy.

How mighty white of you.
quote:
I disagree.........just because youre a black man, doesnt justify your authority over 'our' (black womens) direction.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AUTHORITY OVER BLACK WOMEN??? I WAS CLEARLY SPEAKING IN TERMS OF PARTNERSHIP.

I wrote

"AS A BLACK MAN I HAVE THE RIGHT, OBLIGATION, AND DUTY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE DIRECTION OF BLACK WOMEN. Just as sistas, and all of you make sure to contribute to the body of heavy duty Black male bashing, have the right, duty, and obligation to check us when we are bugging out."

Where does it say CONTROL or HOLD AUTHORITY OVER???????
quote:
Conformity is not a bad thing... so long as it's a logical, rational choice designed to bring one closer to their goals. I find your and Shango's position on this issue to be outrageously snobish and unnecessarily divisive

To me, this is not an issue of conformity. And even if it was, does it seem rational and logical to apply a hot iron to your head, so you can get a job?

In the school where I work, I see little sistas as young as 6 years old with SCARS on their head. BURNS from either the hot comb or areas where the chemical chipped away at the skin. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE? Young girls with chemical alopecia is a CRIME!!!!! What JOB does an 8 year old have where she should be exposed to such trauma to her scalp???? It should offend your sensibilities.
quote:
"It would be refreshing to see a movement of Black women spending money to get nappy hair. I would celebrate in the street."
-Shango67

Why in the hell, would you want a sista to put any type of chemicals in her hair?



You never responded to this........especially since youre soooo concerned with women that apply chemicals to the hair.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
"It would be refreshing to see a movement of Black women spending money to get nappy hair. I would celebrate in the street."
-Shango67

Why in the hell, would you want a sista to put any type of chemicals in her hair?



You never responded to this........especially since youre soooo concerned with women that apply chemicals to the hair.

I responded.

page 3
Wow! Four pages on this? Confused

Just chalk it up as preference. Guess we all play arm-chair psychologist about one thing or another...

Shango, I have a couple of questions (asked in sincerity): Do you consider yourself 100 percent of European conditioning? If not, are you still worthy of being in a relationship?

Assuming that your theory is correct (straightened hair = Euro-derived psychosis), aren't you attempting to treat the symptom instead of the disease? If the issue is conditioning (pun intended), isn't the better strategy changing the mindset so that the behaviors of that mindset go away?
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Sister, I'm disappointed too. I thought this 'Shango' brother was more put together than this. Him and Sister Ebony had some words, but that's no reason to come in here making inflammatory and disrespectful comments about women's image. That is not right to me. I think something is going to have to be done.


As far as I'm concerned, Shango67 has never earned any respect ... and he gets none here. "Smarter than that"? Only in his overblown imagination.

And unlike my more dignified and gracious sisters here on the board (whom hopefully I will learn to be like when I grow up! Big Grin), I have no problem slithering down into the bowels of hell where and dealing with a gutter rat on his level, when and where necessary! Unfortunately, this thread was such a time.

Right now, I'm wearing my hair in braids, individuals, no extentions or weave. So, for the purposes of this conversation, I happen to be one of those "natural" women that he claims to hold in such high regard!! However, I'm liable to go out next month and do something completely different with it ... as would be my choice and preference. And, in fact, I would do it more to spite the likes of Shango67, than I would for adhereing to some European-style of beauty.

But, the bottom line is, I will not sit passively by while he comes to this board and disses Black women on any subject, period. His self-righteous arrogance deems him unworthy to do so. And there are too many other men on this board who don't seem to have a problem with being able to show us some respect ... so that makes him and exception, not the rule, and by me, he will be treated as such!

So, therefore, Shango67, whenever you happen to be feeling frogish go ahead and leap!! Because my old crochety ass is still young enough to reach into my Depends and pull out a can of Whupass with your name on it!!

And you call yourself a (Black) man? Only in the best of your dreams. Roll Eyes
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quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Wow! Four pages on this? Confused

Just chalk it up as preference. Guess we all play arm-chair psychologist about one thing or another...

Shango, I have a couple of questions (asked in sincerity): Do you consider yourself 100 percent of European conditioning? If not, are you still worthy of being in a relationship?

Assuming that your theory is correct (straightened hair = Euro-derived psychosis), aren't you attempting to treat the symptom instead of the disease? If the issue is conditioning (pun intended), isn't the better strategy changing the mindset so that the behaviors of that mindset go away?

I don't understand the european conditioning question.

And I am addressing the symptoms as well as the disease.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
2) Brothers live in amerikkkan society with the same issues of beauty as our women - but rebel. Therefore, you don't see Black men spending money to look like Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, or Justin Timberlake (I'll throw in Sean Connery so the old hag - Ebony Rose - can relate to someone in her age bracket). There was a time in our history when Black men engaged in the practice of frying their hair. Why did we leave the practice of hair straightening but our sisters did not? I'll tell you... Too much Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City, and way too many eurocentric fashion magazines. STOP TAKING CUES FROM WHITE CHICKS!


Get the hell out of here! lol THE. ONLY. reason there aren't more men with perms is because women don't find that attractive anymore. If we suddenly decided that we all wanted men with Al Sharpton's do, stock in Dark N Lovely would shoot straight past Berkshire Hathaway. 99.99999% of you all would be fried, dyed and laid to the side within the damn week. Come off it. As if Black men are so much more evolved than Black women.

quote:
3) No breaks for the gals! Own up to the psychopathology and poor mental state that forces you to fuck up your head. Correct the mistake AND STOP BLAMING BLACK MEN FOR THE REASON AS TO WHY YOU ENGAGE IN SUCH FOOLISHNESS. We are gonna take you in your natural state. And the ones who overlook you, were already gone.


You may want to clear that with your bretheren. Have a look around and see the kind of women they practically cyber-jizz over with regularity. RadioRaheem can point you in the right direction. It aint no natural sista!! Big Grin

quote:
AS A BLACK MAN I HAVE THE RIGHT, OBLIGATION, AND DUTY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE DIRECTION OF BLACK WOMEN. Just as sistas, and all of you make sure to contribute to the body of heavy duty Black male bashing, have the right, duty, and obligation to check us when we are bugging out.


Consider yourself and your woman-bashing argument checked.

quote:
This is a concept that seems to be wasted on folks raised on the wisdom of Mary J. Blige and Lil Kim.


Those braids must be too tight. Wink Check the BET Boards for those folks.

quote:
But this was a forum directly hitting and tearing down the beauty of black women.

We fight this everyday.....and it hurts.

That is what men do. Like a fulltime job. Daddy is somewhere with his thumb up his ass. The woman is the only one left around for him to lash out at.

quote:
I have no problem slithering down into the bowels of hell where and dealing with a gutter rat on his level, when and where necessary!

LOL! Ebony you got your card back!!! laugh

Shango, the hairline can also be destroyed by natural, braided hairstyles that are too tight. And then there are hairlines that drift back all on their own. I've seen those same "outrageous" depictions on children with no chemicals in their hair.
quote:
Brother, simply because others may bring themselves down to a lowly state of behavior does not mean that you have to go down with them. You can hold yourself up to a higher standard. That is a little thing that we like to call MATURITY. Behaving and talking like a fool just because others are behaving and talking like fools shows a poor grade of character. For some reason, I thought that you knew better and I am disappointed

But yet you chastise the BROTHER.

Rowe,

Maybe we be real cool iffn I got to head scratching, and bowing and scraping for the purpose of not offending the sisterhood. I don't slide step for anyone... including Black women. Page after page on this blog you find sisters holding brothers feet to the fire for everything from destroying the Black community to being deadbeat dads. When it comes to Black men, the majority of you publish nothing but Alice Walkerisms. This site is littered with "woe with me colored girl manuscripts" with the central theme starring the Black man as the lazy and shiftless boogie man.

The question remains...

Should five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten year old girls have burn marks around the edges of their forehead for the purpose of having STRAIGHT hair? Should they have burned EARS and should those EARS be bathed in Vasoline because mom slipped up with the hot comb? Should our young Black girls be showing signs of tension and chemical alopecia for the purpose of straight hair at ages 30 years before natural hair loss occurs?
quote:
Shango, the hairline can also be destroyed by natural, braided hairstyles that are too tight. And then there are hairlines that drift back all on their own. I've seen those same "outrageous" depictions on children with no chemicals in their hair.

ARE YOU KIDDING?

First... traction and chemical alopecia looks the same - just could not find the pictures in the medical journals I referenced.

Second... the hair loss is OFTEN life long in many cases. And besides, how do you explain to a young girl that her hairline "will drift back" on its own. That is INSANITY and downright mean.

Third... Yes, hair loss does happen to children, in rare cases, from fungus, disease, malnutrition and what not. And? Does that make it better. "Don't worry baby. We will tell them it is ringworm. I'll buy you some hats until the hair grows back."

WOW

Those pictures should shock the conscience, and at the very least, spark some type of thought.
quote:
Sodium Hydroxide is the strongest type of principal chemical used in some chemical relaxers because it provides the most long lasting and dramatic effects. However, this same sodium hydroxide is found in drain cleaners which well demonstrates the strength of this chemical. It is what is used in products that are referred to as "lye" relaxers. The strength varies from a ph factor of 10 to 14. With higher ph, the faster the straightening solution will take hold, but the more potential the damage.

Guanidine Hydroxide is the other common option of relaxer chemical used today. This is what is referred to as "no-lye" relaxers. This label can be misleading to some consumers. It does not imply that there aren't any strong chemicals used or that the chemicals used are somehow less potentially damaging. Some have mistakenly thought that with "no-lye" relaxers there are less steps and all the worry of chemical hair straightening is removed. Although this type of chemical hair relaxer can be less damaging than its counterpart, the hair and scalp should be in top condition before attempting treatment, and this type also requires special care when applied.


http://www.skinbiology.com/truthabouthairrelaxers.html
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
The question remains...

Should five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten year old girls have burn marks around the edges of their forehead for the purpose of having STRAIGHT hair? Should they have burned EARS and should those EARS be bathed in Vasoline because mom slipped up with the hot comb? Should our young Black girls be showing signs of tension and chemical alopecia for the purpose of straight hair at ages 30 years before natural hair loss occurs?

Thank you, Whitney. I didn't know it was all for the children. Your ass certainly didn't start out with any concern for the children. Too busy running your mouth about snowflake makeup, etc. And you certainly weren't thinking about the children when you started this topic about Black men and perms. Little girls didn't come into the picture until Page 3.

Please re-read what I wrote. Hairlines change as we get older and depending on the style we wear our hair (both MEN AND WOMEN), not always as the result of chemical procedures (hence "drift back on thier own"). Furthermore, you are talking about chemical procedures that have gone wrong, that were applied improperly. That IS NOT the norm! You cannot use the exception to the rule as the entire basis of your argument. That's nonsensical.

Furthermore, you are not dropping anything new on women. Like I said, we are quite afmiliar with our hair and all of the different ways it can be styled, handled, altered, destroyed, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
Sodium Hydroxide is the strongest type of principal chemical used in some chemical relaxers because it provides the most long lasting and dramatic effects. However, this same sodium hydroxide is found in drain cleaners which well demonstrates the strength of this chemical. It is what is used in products that are referred to as "lye" relaxers. The strength varies from a ph factor of 10 to 14. With higher ph, the faster the straightening solution will take hold, but the more potential the damage.

Guanidine Hydroxide is the other common option of relaxer chemical used today. This is what is referred to as "no-lye" relaxers. This label can be misleading to some consumers. It does not imply that there aren't any strong chemicals used or that the chemicals used are somehow less potentially damaging. Some have mistakenly thought that with "no-lye" relaxers there are less steps and all the worry of chemical hair straightening is removed. Although this type of chemical hair relaxer can be less damaging than its counterpart, the hair and scalp should be in top condition before attempting treatment, and this type also requires special care when applied.


http://www.skinbiology.com/truthabouthairrelaxers.html


As has been pointed out to you previously, these are not our only two options for altering our hair.
quote:
That IS NOT the norm! You cannot use the exception to the rule as the entire basis of your argument. That's nonsensical.

The eventual destruction of the hair and scalp IS THE NORM. And I all the flukey science you drag out does not negate the fact that the process is dangerous, and hastens the deterioration that should happen NATURALLY.
quote:
didn't know it was all for the children. Your ass certainly didn't start out with any concern for the children. Too busy running your mouth about snowflake makeup, etc. And you certainly weren't thinking about the children when you started this topic about Black men and perms. Little girls didn't come into the picture until Page 3.

SO WHAT IF IT WAS NOT ADDRESSED until page 3?
It is still a valid point - and definitely worth reflection and investigation.

Why pass down these pathologies to our young folk?
quote:
Hair loss among Black women has reached near epidemic proportions. "I see at least five women every day with this concern," says dermatologist Susan Taylor, director of Society Hill Dermatology in Philadelphia. Different from hair breakage, in which the hair snaps off, loss occurs when "the hair comes out from the root, leaving patches with no hair, or alternatively, if there is still hair, the density is markedly less, and you can see the scalp through the hair," explains Taylor. Many Black women suffer from what doctors call traction alopecia. Tight hairstyles--braids, weaves, ponytails and cornrows--worn over long periods of time pull on the hair, causing the natural hairline to recede.

Central centrifugal cicatricial alopecia, another condition common among Black women, is characterized by circle-shaped balding at the crown toward the front of the head. Many dermatologists blame this condition on the sometimes outrageous things we do to our hair with tension, heat and chemicals. Other forms of hair loss include female pattern baldness, a hereditary condition, and alopecia areata, random quarter-size bald patches throughout the scalp, which can be caused by stress. In addition, pregnancy, certain medications, hormonal imbalances and thyroid malfunction can cause hair to fall out. The good news: Taking a proactive approach can improve your situation, and there are scientific options that can make a difference.

Essence Magazine, August 2005
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
That IS NOT the norm! You cannot use the exception to the rule as the entire basis of your argument. That's nonsensical.

The eventual destruction of the hair and scalp IS THE NORM. And I all the flukey science you drag out does not negate the fact that the process is dangerous, and hastens the deterioration that should happen NATURALLY.


What flukey science?!?! You're the only one dragging out pictures of hairlines and articles on old school lye relaxers!

Black women have a variety of hairstyles throughout their lifetime. We do not perm our hair from age 3 up to the damn grave. YOU have no idea what the "norm" is for us because you don't know anything about Black women and hair. You just see and jump to conclusions.

Now that your initial premise has been shot down from every angle, you're sticking to this "kids" thing. As I said already, there are numerous things that can change a child's natural hairline including things that are not chemically-based. Furthermore, there are children who's hair is relaxed and healthy and well-maintained. Relaxers are not singleh-handedly responsible for destroying our children.

quote:
how do you explain to a young girl that her hairline "will drift back" on its own?

I've addressed your misinterpretation of that phrase twice already.

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