Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

BBankins, Do I detect a hint of satisfaction in your post.

Or more to the point, with all of the financial and political shenanigans reported, why do you feel the need to come to a largely Black forum and post such an article? Mad

Winnie fought a great fight and accomplished great things; but has fallen off the path (Maybe). So what?

Why no posts from you about the Tyco Execs, Oral Roberts', or David Dukes' that used their positions to steal millions?

Is it to show that Black folk can be as big a crook as white folk. Or, maybe you're just saying that Black folks are crooks. (Judging from your other posts, I would guess the latter).

Maybe my response would have been less heated if you had commented on the article. Then I wouldn't have had to fill in the blanks.
Now do we really need to go there? All right, let's talk about corruption, AmeriKKKa has its fair share of them! Rampant theft, corruption...Gain is rampant in every echelon. Top corporate execs lie and deceive investors with creative accounting, getting filthy rich while everyone else loses their jobs and their retirement savings (stories like WorldCom, Enron and the Bush connections). People cheat on their taxes, private and government workers embezzle money, scammers milk old people's bank accounts, companies grease politicians, boosters grease college athletes, police officers steal money from the stash they retrieve off of drug dealers they arrest, some police officers are part of the drug rings, kids steal out of each other's lockers and so on... Same old stuff in AmerikKKa corruption rules!

"Let the image of God be African. Let the angels be African as well and paint the devil any color you choose, but never the color of the Negro race." A.E. Beyioku.
I have a question, are there any black judges, lawyers, educators, or anything that might be black in South Africa except the emprovished? Another question that I have is WHY is Winnie Mandela being targeted for all of these prosecutions? Yet the man who was affectionately called "Dr. Death"who conspired to commit mass homicide of Black South Africans by germ warfare gets acquitted? The man even REFUSED to participate on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in these very differing verdicts? Or again why is Winnie being targeted for all of these alleged crimes?

You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.
Malcolm X, 1965
I believe B.Bankins is truly a sick and twisted individual. He celebrate anything remotely seen as a victory for those who oppose freedom for Black men and women. Sister Winnie is still the woman who supported Mandela while the evil and wicked South African government had him locked away and She is still the sister who fought against apartheid.

-------------------------
By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Oh, Kevin 41, I hope you're speaking in hyperbole. What you suggest can and has spun way out of control.

Better to educate and/or ignore. "Race traitors" are only as harmful as their platform. Thankfully, this particular platform has folks that can see through self-hate.

And, the audience of other platforms see them as an amusing distraction. Even the most "conservative" (i.e. racist) don't believe nonsense self-haters spout.
Well Kweli4Real,

When 100,000+ less black students in california are attending college because of efforts on the part of people who are of their same race, what is one supposed to do? Plead with them? Accept the losses as "how it is"? I am at a lost, please tell me what is REALLY up with those kind of blacks......for I do not see the logic in their actions.............
At first, I was going to ignor this stupidity......

.....But why should I??

Faheem and Kweli4Real

You two are the biggest fools I've ever seen on message boards, and I've run into plenty!!

I purposely made no comment because the Washtington Post article needed none. So because I post the truth about Winnie, somehow, my blackness and intentions are now in question?

Gloat you say?? I'm totally disgusted with Winnie's actions!! She is taking Full advantage of her celebrity status and trust from her admirers to selfishly satisfy her own greedy ambitions!!

quote:
"The state's evidence is overwhelming," magistrate Peet Johnson told a Pretoria court.


There it is in black and white from a court and jury of her peers!! WINNIE IS STEALING FROM HER OWN PEOPLE!!!!

I could not in all seriousness betray the very people who love and support me the way Winnie has done. BUT YOU IDIOTS PRAISE HER ANYWAY!!!

Just like Junebug posted in another thread, you attack the messenger and ignor the message. Basically, you're a bunch of losers who cannot take me on anything of substance, so you attack my character!!

This is why topics like Affirmative Action, racial profiling, Reparations,...et, I avoid commenting on because of totally assinine invectives from stooges like you two.

You don't like what I post here?? Fine!! Show me where I'm wrong, Have Mr. MBM delete me from the forum, or just shut the hell up and ignor my posts!!!!

Hey Junebug. You once asked why black Conservatives don't address the black community. Are you still asking???

As for the rest of you morons......

Have a very nice day.... Big Grin

Bankins
This is a bit off topic, but . . .

quote:
Originally posted by B Bankins:

You once asked why black Conservatives don't address the black community. Are you still asking???


With all due respect, I think many blacks feel uncomfortable with black conservative positions because, IMO, they too often feel like _self righteous_ criticism directed at our own community. It positions the conservative as somehow smarter or more informed than "the masses" of black folks. Naturally, no one could ever gain many fans with this tack. Smile

I LOVE to engage black conservatives that express the following approach:

1) I love the black community.

2) In my best judgment I believe that a conservative approach is best for our community based on their merits alone.

3) This is why . . .

These approaches reject 'name calling' and denigrating any parties or groups and just focus on the merits of whatever positions that the person espouses. Above and beyond everything though, it must be made clear that the conservative's primary objective is the uplift of the black community.

We need more of that. Smile



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
It is really simple where the conflict comes in with the black conservatives. I keep mentioning policy outcomes and gave the lessened enrollment numbers above. Black conservatives avoid that aspect of their philsophy alltogether....which is answering specifically how they can support detremental policy outcomes in terms of the effect a piece of legislation has on a black populous. No one gives a damn what they think or who they support, but since they like to tout that
s_ _ _t as the great progressive black contemporary train of thought, then they should have no problem explaining what drives them to support adverse polices. Why is that so damn hard to get out of them without talking about all that other nonsense? They can fade all that emotional bullsh-t and just address the issues exclusively. It never comes down to that.....the dialogue is diverted into some stupid azzz tit for tat about the individual making the point about a certain policy position but not the policy position itself. I don't know about the rest of you progressive brothers and sisters, but I find engaging in that kind of nonsense where someone is trying to rationalize that black-adverse bs in YOUR head kind of insulting and indicative of a lowered form of intellect....so we can go on and on and on...but the bottom line is.......no black person is supposed to think exclusively about their damn self without taking into consideration the effect of their actions and mindset on the entire black race. They are obligated to do so because major components of their positive social structure and professional opportunities were established due to the blood, sweat, tears and deaths of many of our prior generations.....and because of that, we are all indebted to uplift each other and our future generations....... and anyone who acts or thinks counter to that philosophy, "ain't" shiit of a black person.....or human being.....and I don't give a fu-k what anyone thinks otherwise.......
Bankins,

No problem. Not only I agree with just about everything you say, I highly respect you....I'm sure you know that.

Over on TBWT, you and I both encountered hostility, and yet when we challenged them to stick to the issues with out the personal attacks, they could not. That's THEIR problem. When they attack, it only strengthens my resolve!!!

MBM, I agree with some of what you said. But it has been done, you just will not hear about it because black conservatives are not only villified (sp??) within the black community, they are also in the "mainstream media". Their views are always slanted to make them look like they are out to get black people or whomever. If you truely read or isten to the conservative message, it makes sense. Most get the conservative message through the corrupted views of the left.

and now....

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
no black person is supposed to think exclusively about their damn self without taking into consideration the effect of their actions and mindset on the entire black race. They are obligated to do so because major components of their positive social structure and professional opportunities were established due to the blood, sweat, tears and deaths of many of our prior generations.....and because of that, we are all indebted to uplift each other and our future generations....... and anyone who acts or thinks counter to that philosophy, "ain't" shiit of a black person.....or human being.....and I don't give a fu-k what anyone thinks otherwise.......


You are certainly entitled to your opinion because this is just what it is...an opinion.

Who will make the rules on how all black people must think???

With this type of ideology, how can one effectively live their lives and make descisions for themselves and their families without thinking how it will affect the "entire race" as you put it??

This is why this type of think is Marxist/Stalinist thinking. This is how the Soviet Union was. So if people like you, Noah, faheem had your black nation, it would start out perhaps as a good thing but it would eventually turn into a strict dictatorship. It would have to. If you are to control ones thinking by intimidation the way some in here try to do, there cannot be any mode of freedom. What's more, if one gathered possesions that most others in the group did not have, they would be forced to give it up to share with others in the group that might not have worked hard. This is called communism.

Anyone who dares to venger from the purported "black thought" would have to go through re education to set their thinking right.

This also yields to the type of corruption that Bankins originally posted. When you have someone like a Winnie Mandela or Jesse Jackson who are held to such a high regard and criticizing them is tantamount to blasphemy, then they can get away with stealing from the people they are "working" for and no one will say anything.

If you folks want to go with this type of thinking, by all means, knock yourselves out!!!

This was not in a hostile form IMO. So Kev, if you respond, no need for hostility and personal attacks.
Personally, I see no reason to attack the messenger. If a point is wrong, I attack the point, and very rarely (these days) the motives behind the messenger.

But so you all know, to me Winnie Mandela is family. Her contributions to the cause of freedom cannot and will not ever be denied. What she's been up to since the late 80s is shameful, and I don't see a need to apologize for it or pretend it doesn't exist. But we don't know the toll that what she went through had on her. I've known of people to go insane over far less. Like we would support our own mother through similar personal failings, we should acknowledge them here, and support her through it. I'm normally not such an apologist, but this is not Kiki Wyatt we're talking about. This is Winnie Mandela.
{After taking more than a few deep breaths, Kweli responds}

B Bankins, You call me foolish, assisine and an idiot and then rant about my attacking the messenger??? Frown Nope, I won't go there.

{Starts again}

B Bankins,

My biggest complaint about Black"conservatives" is not their politics; but rather, their tactics. It appears that Black "Conservatives" see nothing positive in the Black community and certainly have nothing positive to say about it. It seems to be their mission to point out the failings of the community. Thank you, but we have enough of that coming at us from outside of the Black community.

The point of my post was not to "attack" you, but to ask, how posting, in a Black forum, an article about the criminal activity of a Black "Hero" furthers, supports or advances the Black community?

I have read a great many, if not all, of your postings because they tend to challenge my politics, but I don't believe that I've read any that have 1) had anything good to say about the Black community; or 2) posted similar articles where the evil doer was non-Black. This leads me to believe that your purpose is not to educate and uplift, but to tear down. Again, thanks, but no thanks.
Kweli4Real,

The problem is that black conservatives are painted with a very large and broad brush. Just as it is wrong to paint all blacks as being one way (lazy and criminally inclined) it is also wrong to paint all black conservatives as being the white man's flunky and not caring about our communities.

While I certainly agreed that they are black conservatives who do nothing but tear down our communities with their negative comments, there are equal numbers of black liberals who do the same thing through conning black people or taking advantage of certain situations. Should we not call them out on the carpet also.

I considered myself conservative and yet I know they are hugh amounts of things positive in our communities, because I have lived in those communities and have seem it first hand, however they are things that are wrong and should not be ignored. To ignore whats wrong and just push forward the positive doens't fix the issues. I don't know about others but my political beliefs have developed over 20 years based on what I have seem and have experienced, to implied that I should ignore that and think a particular way because of my skin color does seem abit assine.

Finally I will say this, Winnie's place in history as the person who stood next to Mandela throughout the struggle is secure and this issue while painful will be just a footnote. And while it is appropriate to honor her greatness and defend it we also need to admit if just to ourselves that she also messed up.

[This message was edited by jazzdog on April 25, 2003 at 10:10 AM.]
Jazzdog, I agree with much of what you said. And, I guess I'm guilty of painting with the broad brush at times.

However, I just don't see the point of Black folks coming to a Black forum to point out the individual failings of a Black person, especially a Black warrior.

Talk about the collective failings of Black parents to raise our children, cool. Talk about the Black community's apparent obsession with immediate gratification, no problem. Even point to a Black "leader" that has been found guilty of committing fraud, but doing so in the context of a greater discussion, such as, why we tend to be such a messianic or trusting people, let's do it. Great topic.

All of these topics will lead to uplifting discussions. But to talk about an individual's failings leads no where.

BTW, I, too, consider myself to be on the conservative end of the political spectrum.
I agreed that posting the issue as a point of discussion about what went wrong in her life to lead to such a shameful situation would probably have been more appropriate. I think that any issue discussed on this board about the failing of us as a people or individuals who have gained our trust is important. Its important because no matter how bad some of our leaders and people we look up to act for some reason we still give them our respect and admiration. Why, I don't know but that would be a good discussion to have.
Bankins writes, "I'm totally disgusted with Winnie's actions!!"

...Oh really, how about P.W. Botha and his murderous apartheid regime's actions, - are you equally disgusted by that Mr. Bankins? And what about former US President Ronald Reagan's South African policy of "quiet diplomacy" which really meant business as usual for the racist regime; the continued murders of black South Africans? And what Mr. Bankins have you to say about Vice President Cheney who said the ANC is communist and for all intent and purpose have no right to defend their homelands! Speak to those points Mr., Bankins! Perhaps your answer may explain or bring to light why some posters feel the way they do when it comes to Negroes like you!!!!
Iman, thanks for your support over the last couple of years. Something you hit on goes right to the meat of the "intention" of this post......

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
no black person is supposed to think exclusively about their damn self without taking into consideration the effect of their actions and mindset on the entire black race. They are obligated to do so because major components of their positive social structure and professional opportunities were established due to the blood, sweat, tears and deaths of many of our prior generations.....and because of that, we are all indebted to uplift each other and our future generations....... and anyone who acts or thinks counter to that philosophy, "ain't" shiit of a black person.....or human being.....and I don't give a fu-k what anyone thinks otherwise.......


Minus the usual invectives from this poster, I agree with this thought, because it exactly applies to Winnie.

Her accomplishments should not be discounted, and nowhere on this thread did I do that. By the same token, when you set yourself up as a leader of your people, you have great responsibilities to those people. You have no right to take advantage of their good will and honor toward you.

With great power comes great responsibility! That's not just a line from "Spider Man," but a fact of life. I only support those individuals who adhere to this principle and I wish the black community would also, instead of making excuses for their leader's missteps in life. Just my opinion, of course.

Also, the Washington Post's article clearly notes some of Winnie's struggle against Apartheid, and the supporters present at her trial. This was no Hatchet job against Winnie. The article was fair and balanced, and called it down the middle.

And for someone to tell another what they can or cannot post on a black forum and then chastize my "intentions" when I've defended Colin powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas....et.,

...When I've posted Census figures that showed the steady growth of the black community through the 80's and 90's....et.,

And then to be called "sick and twisted" because they don't agree with me....

...I'm just supposed to show a smiley face and say "that's ok?" I DON'T THINK SO!!!!

I will take Mr. MBM's reasonble suggestion and try to be more tactful in the future, but ask yourselves this.....

If you really believe in the direction and progress of the black community, along with your own political thoughts, why the resentment towards myself and my posts??

Bankins

[This message was edited by B Bankins on April 25, 2003 at 05:42 PM.]
"Kraaal, when you learn to be more respectful, I'll be glad to. Until then....."

Interesting response B. Bankins. However...

You and I are no doubt political, religious and if I remember correctly social polar opposites, i.e., you live in the hood, I don't. Therefore, much of the rhetoric you spew I find not only disrespectful (as some on this site would certainly agree) but down right despicable for any black man to be saying.

But more importantly Mr. Bankins, I have learned that the Internet affords me the ability and freedom to speak openly and honestly about issues without fear of your likeness. For example, I am not a Christian, brownnoser or hinny kisser. Thus, I can speak as freely as I like about those who endear themselves to all that is white and not fear "a write up," ostracization, rejection or anything Negroes like you in the presence of white people tend to use against those who think and act differently.

And while it is not my intent to be disrespectful to anyone, if the likes of Bankins finds my discourse on race and religion "disrespectful" then it is most likely being confused for honesty. Just one more example Bankins, as a non-Christian I think the Bible is Bullllsh!t printed by white people. Now while some may say that is disrespectful and blasphemous, it is nonetheless my honest opinion, - ya feelin me Bankins!!!!

When one reads the responses to Bankins posts, one easily gets the impression that perhaps it is you Mr. Bankins that should learn some respect.


Until then...you know the rest

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×