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That was one powerfull article from Mr. Farrah, and that's exactly what I've been saying here for so long.

Talk about a plantation mentality,....I did a post on Mr. Carl McCall, the first black nominee for governor of New York, and how Terry McAuliffe was reneging on a $500,000 promise. Do you know a "guest" poster responded in agreement with McAuliffe??

It really is sad that so many of us are still asleep in the cotton fields of the democratic party and take comfort in maintaining those fields.

It's time the black community wakes up. Is there any wonder why no blacks are in the Senate, and the tiny few in the House are all Democrat sheep??

Of course, the usual refrain...."What is the GOP doing?"

To which I respond...., "with all your eggs in the Democratic basket, what is the GOP supposed to do??"


big grin big grin big grin
Hello Mr. Bankins, and Mr. IndependentMan,

Thanks for the information, and I will share this with others. Indeed the Democratic Party takes Black people for granted. Before every election many of Black America's prominent no good poverty pimping jack leg preachers cut a deal to deliver the Black vote in exchange for money to build up their own financial coffers at the expense of Black America.


Payment in full for delivery of the Black vote ends up in the preachers bank account, to which Black people continue to end up, used up, washed up, misrepresented, under-represented by the Democratic Party, primarily through Black America's own elected officials, who also help to deliver the Black vote in exchange for gratuities, while using games of deceit or sleaze to mis-represent, or truly incompetently represent the community of Black America.

Indeed, as more truths are circulated, and Black people exercise their right to vote to select the candidate who truly serves the community of Black America, over the present "status quo" arrangement of communities of Black America being used as fodder for the system, business will no longer be as usual, to which there will be a return on the investment.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
quote:
Originally posted by B Bankins:
Of course, the usual refrain...."What is the GOP doing?"

To which I respond...., "with all your eggs in the Democratic basket, what is the GOP supposed to do??"



Bankins there is a basic point about politics that you obviously have failed to grasp. Let me do my best to break it down for you.

PEOPLE VOTE _FOR_ THINGS IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS.

WHAT HAS THE GOP GIVEN BLACKS TO VOTE FOR?


Simple question. Answer it.
Mr. Icon,

"PEOPLE VOTE _FOR_ THINGS IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS.

WHAT HAS THE GOP GIVEN BLACKS TO VOTE FOR?


Simple question. Answer it."by Icon

What has either party done in the behalf of truly law abiding U.S. citizens of Black American heritage to earn the Black vote?

Simple question. Answer it.
"What has either party done in the behalf of U.S. citizens of Black America heritage to earn the Black vote?

What does the Black community have to offer for either party?

In the white community,its numbers. We take up for roughly %72 of the US pop. We all know that numbers=votes=win. So what can the black community give to a party for that party to compaign for that vote?

I am a firm believer that the repubs mentallity is,"The government is not here to provide for you,but to let you have the oppurtunity to provide for yourself"
While the dems are more "come on over,we'll give you a check for a vote!"
quote:
Originally posted by Lofton:
What has either party done in the behalf of truly law abiding U.S. citizens of Black American heritage to earn the Black vote?

Simple question. Answer it.


Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation and generated tremendous black loyalty to the Republican Party. There were a number of blacks elected to Congress and the Senate, as well as a governor or two as well as Republicans during Reconstruction.

FDR and the "new Deal" offered blacks at least the hope for fairness and opportunity (as Republicanism began to signify racism), and thus began the period of black Democratic support.

Democrats have supported civil rights, affirmative action, abortion rights, and other issues that most reasonable blacks believe have been in their interests.
quote:
Originally posted by Factoid:
I am a firm believer that the repubs mentallity is,"The government is not here to provide for you,but to let you have the oppurtunity to provide for yourself"



Please. Is the steel industry thinking that way? Oil industry? Defense industry? Farming? Milk? Auto?

Are you forgetting all the business interests that drive politics? They come begging to Washingtion looking for some deal or subsidy or tax break. Are you concerned about "corporate welfare" at all Factoid? Are you concerned about business coming to Washington looking for a check? roll eyes
quote:
Originally posted by B Bankins:
"with all your eggs in the Democratic basket, what is the GOP supposed to do??"





Here's some news for you black conservatives. The average black guy in the street, when he's in the voting booth, doesn't have the luxury of thinking about "balances of power" and other idealistic concepts. They are concerned with providing for their families and making it the best way they can. Up until this point, conservativea haven't offered black America anything that would make that rational black man or woman vote Republican.

If you conservatives believe that you have all the answers for black America, then get off your asses and do something about it. Run for office. Take your case to the people or shut the F. up. mad You're so quick to criticize other black people or anyone that's looking for solutions to America's problems, yet offer so little in terms of new thinking yourselves.
Mr. Factual,

"What has either party done in the behalf of U.S. citizens of Black America heritage to earn the Black vote?

What does the Black community have to offer for either party?

In the white community,its numbers. We take up for roughly %72 of the US pop. We all know that numbers=votes=win. So what can the black community give to a party for that party to compaign for that vote?

I am a firm believer that the repubs mentallity is,"The government is not here to provide for you,but to let you have the oppurtunity to provide for yourself" While the dems are more "come on over,we'll give you a check for a vote!" by Mr. Factual

Without equity in the courts, in terms of "Equal Justice and Protection Under the Law", political representation is meaningless. So far considering numerous blatant improprieties of "Unequal Justice and Protection Under the Law", to which both the Republican and Democratic Parties, have been petitioned for numerous cases of redress as it relates to very serious U.S. citizenship rights violations by agents and officials of government, inflicted against the truly innocent of Black America, that make any argument praising either party very weak, if not meaningless.

With the ever increasing number of qualified voters who have refrained from going to the polls to exercise their right to vote, as it pertains to low voter participation in the political process, make it crystal clear that both the Democratic and Republican parties have lost touch with the masses of all ethnic persuasions, as it pertains to respecting the rights of the average U.S. citizen.

Elected officials do not have a choice in the matter because they are supposed to be public servants. Elected officials are U.S. Constitutionally Mandated, and sworn in under oath of office to serve as mandated, to which so far real equity has yet to be realized within many communities across Black America.

The argument in favor of the Democrats over the Republican Party, as posed by Mr. Icon, is also a weak argument, because in many proven instances elected representatives of the Democratic Party have contributed to the demise of many truly innocent of U.S. citizens of Black American heritage, rather than serve as U.S. Constitutionally mandated.

Affirmative Action, Discrimination issues, the liberal definition of Civil Rights, have little to do with U.S. Constitutional protections. The true beneficiaries of Affirmative Action gains are the well connected of Black America, Caucasian women, and not the masses of Black America.

Again, I ask, of what value are either political party to the masses of Black America, when the results show otherwise?

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on November 01, 2002 at 11:29 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by a "guest"....

FDR and the "new Deal" offered blacks at least the hope for fairness and opportunity (as Republicanism began to signify racism), and thus began the period of black Democratic support.


Wrong!! The New Deal had nothing to do with blacks, who at the time could not even vote in many states, and had to jump thru hoops in those states that permitted blacks to vote. the New Deal was designed for whites who lost their jobs to the Depression, and also to empower the Democrat party and to grow the government. it wasn't until the 60's when blacks saw any semblance of civil rights, only to have Southern DEMOCRATS put up roadblocks to their passage. IT WAS REPUBLICANS WHO PASSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964!!

quote:
Originally posted by a "guest"....

Democrats have supported civil rights, affirmative action, abortion rights, and other issues that most reasonable blacks believe have been in their interests.


You know, I believed in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus in my childhood years. then I grew up!!

This what Martin Luther King had to say about the Civil Rights Act...."Just as Congress passed a civil rights bill in 1868 and refused to enforce it, the Congress passed a civil rights bill in 1964 and to this day, has failed to enforce it in all its dimension."

Also, there's something you need to know about President Johnson's record prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act when he was a congressmen.
During his eleven years in the House, he voted against every civil rights bill -- against not only legislation aimed at ending the poll tax and segregation in the armed services but even against legislation aimed at ending lynching.
http://www.icle.org/sections/labor/adams/art6.htm

It was not just lip service from Southern Dixiecrats, but in the North as well. The government's failure to bring about real reforms in urban black communities gave us the Los Angeles riots in 1965, Newark and Detroit riots in 1967. Stores and businesses, mostly white-owned, but some black-owned....were looted and burned. The turbulent 1960's had mostly a Democrat administration in power. Where were the caring Democrats then??

Fast foward to the present and STILL I read about the usual complaining that "not enought" has been done in the areas of civil rights, and America is evil and racist. Yeah, and the Democrat party still gives lip service because they don't have to do anything to earn the black vote....

....Yet, the GOP must prove themselves.


Have a nice day!!


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The US way is anyone,anytime can have the oppurtinity to make it big. There are tons of black athletes,models,singers that have made millions,if not some of them billions. Michael Jackson(is he still black?) Michael Jordan,Ray lewis,Jim brown. So "what does party x have to offer" is BS. Grab yourself up by your bootstraps, take care of yourself,stop looking for handouts. I lived in a 2 bedroom house,5 people,single income family making $6 an hour,living out of a garden. We never wondered what party x would do to help us. We where trying to figure out how to help ourselves. I hit 18,in 1994,moved to the washington area,bettered myself. My brother as well,the next year,we helped put our sister through college. We never complained about what candidate y was doing to help the poor WV. Jesus christ. Stop blaming everyone else for crying out loud. you don't like the ghetto? get out of the ghetto. Simple enough. mad
that not one republican/conservative (black or otherwise) has managed to answer Icon's very simple question!! And it really was a simple question. The aforementioned members of this board always seem to have an answer for pretty much anything else!! But this one simple question seems to ellude rational and intelligent response!! I wonder why??? roll eyes

You see, as I opened up the thread and began reading, seeing BBankin's question/statement, my thought and subsequent question to '.... what is the GOP supposed to do?' was, the GOP is supposed to make me want to vote with them! Give me a reason to cast my vote for members of their party!

Not every black person votes democratic!! Me, myself, I vote for the candidate who will at least tell me that he/she has my interests at heart!! I mean, come on ... who really knows of an honest politian?? They all lie, regardless of party affiliation! smile The bigger the office, the bigger the lie, so, it's not like any of us, or even many of us, cast our vote and sit back and wait for a miracle to occur!!

Before voting for any candidate, I listen to his/her views on matters that are most important to me, and I will vote for the lesser of the two evils!! In this day and age, it's the best one can really do! I do not and will not vote for anybody that I don't feel will responsibly represent me in the office for which they seek.

And what I have encountered based on the information that is put out there, is that in the majority of situations, what the Republican has to say is 99.5% ridiculous, while the speech of the Democrat usually hovers somewhere around 75%!! Unless there is a viable Independent, with whom their rhetoric teeter-totters somewhere around 50-50, I can limit my bulls%&t intake by a whole 24.5%!! eek

The republican/conservative agenda does nothing to address concerns of importance to me. But it's not like they don't have the opportunity to do so ... it's that they don't know how!!
Mr. Factoid,

"So "what does party x have to offer" is BS. Grab yourself up by your bootstraps, take care of yourself,stop looking for handouts." by Factoid,

"Equal Justice and Protection Under the Law" has absolutely nothing to do with receiving a handout, begging for welfare benefits, etc. When any government official violates the rights of any law abiding citizen, as it pertains to property rights, sanctity of a family unit, breach of contract, illegally interferring with ones' lawful means of employment, etc., redress is in order.

I work for one of the largest and wealthiest municipalities in the U.S., to which claims are filed daily against the City of Los Angeles for the slightest hint of wrongdoing on the part of any government employee. The plaintiffs and their lawyers waste little time filing claims for damages to the tune of Mega Bucks, the "Rampart Scandal" being one of many proven examples. Petitioning an elected official for redress for civil or criminal wrongdoing on the part of any government employee has absolutely nothing to do with receiving a handout or begging for welfare benefits.

Your advice of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps, or begging for handouts, only applies to career welfare recipients, or those who have no ambition in life to begin with. So far, you have used your broad paint brush of labeling anyone within the community of Black America, outside of Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jackson, or other celebrities, as being on the dole, beggars, etc., which is way off the mark, and much, much, much, less than factual.

Seeking redress for damages is definitely within the confines of the law, which has absolutely nothing to do with begging for handouts or otherwise.

Interjecting the accomplishments of Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, etc., has absolutely no relevance in any situation where agents and officials of government seriously violate the U.S. citizenship rights, as it pertains to property rights, gainful employment, sanctity of family, etc., of truly law abiding U.S. citizens of Black American heritage.

Should you take this stand of misinformation in instances where government violates the law to seriously infringe upon the rights of truly law abiding U.S. citizens within the community of Caucasian America, it would behoove you to share such misinformation with the peer group within your own community, to which it is certain the reception you receive will not be too pleasant.

The day that any Caucasian American's U.S. Constitutional rights are violated without just cause, and the victimized of Caucasian America flips his script to refer to the accomplishments of a Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Jerry West, Bill Walton, J.P. Morgan, Scot Andrew Carnegie, Newt Genrich, etc., to resolve a very serious violation of law that mandates redress for serious wrongdoing on the part of agents, and officials of government, is the day that your analogy will have merit.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on November 02, 2002 at 09:17 PM.]
Give me a break!! You and the "guest" are not seriously interested in anything about the GOP. I've answered that question already, and to be blunt, I have no time for die-hard liberals who still defend Democrats after all the info I've provided that proves they do not have our best interest at heart. Info and facts nobody has refuted.

The GOP has openly courted minorities ( that means blacks also ) as far back as the Bush 41 administration.

FACT; It was the Nixon administration that gave us Affirmative Action!!

FACT; It was the EEEEEvil Reagan that gave us Enterprize Zones to revitalize depressed urban neighborhoods!!

FACT; It was also the same EEEEvil Reagan that brought this country economic prosperity never before seen, after inheriting a economic disaster from the Carter administration. Blacks were huge beneficiaries as many black businesses were created and the Black middle class was born.

FACT; It is still the GOP that gives blacks and minorities more than just seats next to a window. Bush 41 appoints the 2nd black man in history to the Supreme court. Sorry that Justice Thomas is a conservative, but the last time i checked, he's black!!

FACT; Bush 43 has given us the first black Secretary of State and National Security Advisor. Bush 43 has also addressed the NAACP and openly courts blacks and minories into the GOP.

But who really cares?? The Dems have successfully convinced you the GOP is evil, all the while covering up their own evil. Bill Clinton had the opportunity to appoint Maynard Jackson as DNC chairman, but instead, gave the position to his crony Terry McAuliffe ( a white guy, and a sleezy one at that ), just to maintain control of the party.

But you have fools out there calling him the first black president, and you expect the GOP to appeal to them???

It's really your choice. Continue to be used by Dems, or move on.


big grin big grin big grin
FACT; It was the Nixon administration that gave us Affirmative Action!!

......and the republicans are now taking it back.


FACT; It was the EEEEEvil Reagan that gave us Enterprize Zones to revitalize depressed urban neighborhoods!!

.......and it under reagan these urban neighborhoods became even more depressed.

FACT; It was also the same EEEEvil Reagan that brought this country economic prosperity never before seen, after inheriting a economic disaster from the Carter administration. Blacks were huge beneficiaries as many black businesses were created and the Black middle class was born.

........Oh yeah! It was under clinton that me and most of the people I know gained real economic clout. It was under reagan many of our people suffered.

FACT; It is still the GOP that gives blacks and minorities more than just seats next to a window. Bush 41 appoints the 2nd black man in history to the Supreme court. Sorry that Justice Thomas is a conservative, but the last time i checked, he's black!!

......giving a person with black skin a position of authority is pointless if the black person given the seat is just as destructive to our race as the white he could've chosen.

FACT; Bush 43 has given us the first black Secretary of State and National Security Advisor. Bush 43 has also addressed the NAACP and openly courts blacks and minories into the GOP.

........Oh yeah, when? My fellow members of the NAACP and I must have been out to lunch when that happened because all we remember is hostility.

Fact is, blacks see the democrts as the lesser of the two evils. The republicans have never done anything to change that.

and when clarence thomas was appointed to the supreme court, rather than gaining the support of african-americans, it actually worked in the opposite direction. We look at what we had in the most honorable Thurgood Marshall and are now embarassed at what we have in thomas.
Hello Mr. Bankins,

As reality would have it, the Democratic Party has indeed controlled the political picture for well over thirty years within communities across Black America. Much of the blame rests with Black America's own Democratic elected leadership, who have allowed outsiders to control our community. Inner-city Black America is in the worst financial shape, and in complete disarray. The community of Black America is neither a threat or a major contender in the political process. Lack of private business formation, and legal gainful employment opportunity creation keep our community heavily dependent on "Welfare", poverty programs, or prisons to provide legal gainful employment opportunity within the community of inner-city Black America, that by and large benefits outside interests and not the community of inner-city Black America.

It remains to be seen what changes will be made, with respect to reform, improvement, etc., should the Republican Party, through a new set of Black elected leaders, control the politics within our community. One thing is certain, the Republican Party is very profficient in creating business opportunities of all forms, generating assets of various forms, to which inner-city Black America is in short supply of assets, and business development.

The Democratic Party on the other hand, has a reputation for raising taxes on both consumers and businesses, that negatively impact business development, and reduces the working capital of the individual.

The Democratic Party emphasizes government influence over individual thought or action, which is directly responsible for social programs such as Aid to Families With Dependent Children, Social Welfare, various poverty programs, etc. In many instances Aid to Families With Dependent Children has been very destructive within our community. The destruction is such that there is very little difference between the institution of slavery past, and AFDC/Social Welfare, to which both the institution of slavery past and AFDC/Social Welfare, virtually destroyed bonds between Black parents, their children, and/or the bond between siblings.

Having lived in the system during my youth, as it pertains to foster care, etc., my parents refused to be subjected to the stronghold of welfare, or AFDC benefits, to which neither of my parents have ever been found unfit, incompetent, criminal, or insane, which are the key reasons that any parent can lose custody to their offspring.

Just like the prison system, AFDC, Welfare, generates government controlled money, or creates legal employment opportunities for every other ethnic group but the masses of Black America. Of course, the Democratic Party have allowed a few token Black people to have some authority, but the only authority used by social workers, probation officers, etc., has resulted in the break-up of the Black family structure for financial gain, for every other community but Black America.

Penal incarceration, like AFDC or Welfare creates legal or illegal government employment opportunities for lawyers, public defenders, district attorneys, doctors, electricians, carpenters, plumbers, judges, psychologists, psychiatrists, police officers, probation officers, social workers, architects, social scientists, accountants, administrators, teachers, systems analysts, etc., which generally benefits liberal Caucasian America at the expense of Black America.

The masses of Black America are in the cage of the "Zoo", and liberal Caucasian American run the "Zoo", while on the outside looking in, in spite of all the "puppets of Black America", who may be university educated or otherwise, who may hold a policy making position, yet at face value the community of inner-city Black America continues to be the fodder of every outside interest to create legal gainful employment for every other community but inner-city Black America.

The importance of "Equal Justice and Protection Under the Law", "Due Process", the right to be safe and secure in the possession of property, legal gainful employment opportunities, sanctity of family, and other U.S. Constitutional Protections are trashed by the liberal Democrats or their henchpersons, to keep the masses of Black America:

a. in poverty.

b. in prison, be it with legal grounds or without the first basis for incarceration.

c. subjected to an inept elected political leadership.

d. in misery, brought on by chaos or stress.

e. under a very deep spell of religious doctrine to calm those who may decide to rebel, kept calm through a circus of no good poverty pimping jack leg preachers, who do more harm than good, within many communities across Black America.

In light of this scenario, "Free Enterprise" as it applies to private business development, doesn't stand a prayer of a chance to survive when government has this much control over the lives of individual citizens.

An individual, a group of individuals, and/or a community would have a stronger position if left to less government influence over their lives.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on November 03, 2002 at 12:15 PM.]
but, alas, you have failed in what I think was you attempt to answer the "simple question" that was posed!

First of all, let me say (again) that it's not about defending anybody! Is the Dem party full of crap? Most definitely. Are the Repubs more full of crap? Unquestionably. What makes them worse is that they don't try to hide the fact that they don't like me and mine! High points for honesty, but the message is still derogatory!

As I said before, I'm going to vote for the candidate that seems to have catering to my best interests at heart. There is no perfect party,no perfect candidate. But if Republicans want my vote they have to at least bluff like they care about what is important to me! Which brings me to your inability to answer the question at hand!

What you are talking about is political posturing by a president ... not a viable political agenda by the republican/conservative party!! I mean, please don't tell me that you think Bush appointing Powell to his administration is a sign of Republicans reaching out to Black folks? Because then what you are saying is that a) He was given the job because he is Black; and/or b) Powell's appointment was a strictly political ploy; and that c) either way, he is not qualified to hold that position! eek

Every president, at at least one point during his term, has to make some kind of pacifying move to the opposing party. Every one has, and every one will, if for no other reason than looking towards re-election, but usually it's for typical political reasoning ... one has to give something to get something else! Your little "facts" as untrue as most of them are, do not address the political policy/agenda of the Republican/Conservative party that fails to adquately explain to me how they are going to address the issues of education, healthcare, social-security, the economy, the environment, social concerns, housing development, and the list goes on.

The two issues most important to Repubs are money and power. But there are a whole majority of others for which many other things (of which I have just named a few) are of more importance!! The Nixon Admin. "gave" us AA .. but did they suggest it? Promote it? Or was it given grudgingly? Bush Jr addressed the NAACP, but has yet to meet with the CBC in his own Congress! You gave crumbs thrown by presidents as the answer to the question that was asked ... how about a real answer now? Please read the question over and try again!!! eek
quote:
Originally posted by Alex...

........Oh yeah, when? My fellow members of the NAACP and I must have been out to lunch when that happened because all we remember is hostility.


This was in response to my refering to "W" Bush addressing the NAACP convention. This person is a member of the NAACP and knows nothing of Bush's Keynote address to the NAACP convention in Baltimore on July 10, 2000.

But then, should I really be surprised??



Mr. Lofton

Excellent post! The Dems are in real trouble here in Maryland. The race for governor has both the Democrat and Republican candidates locked in a dead heat, according to the polls. I say they are in trouble because for the first time in many long years, Maryland is facing a 6 billion dollar deficit.

You can thank our liberal Democrat governor and Lieutenant governor, Mrs. Kathleen KENNEDY Townsend for those numbers. It happened on their watch, and now KKT wants to be governor.

And get this, Democrat voters out number the GOP 2 two 1 in this state, and Maryland rivals only New York and Washington DC as the most liberal state in the union. This race is already seen as a moral victory for Bob Ehrlich, the Republican candidate. Many Prominent Democrats here are steamed at what's happening in this state and are openly supporting Mr. Ehrlich.

We may have our first Republican governor since Spiro T. Agnew in the 60's, along with the first black Lieutenant governor Michael Steele.

Again, it's too close to call, but it shows that all is not well in the Democrat party here in Maryland and nationwide.


big grin big grin big grin
I like you, EbonyRose. I really, honestly do.....

Even though I don't know you personally and we are totally opposite politically, I find your posts very charming, and I do read them. At least we agree that the Dems are full of crap. If we agree on nothing else, at least we have that.

What you fail to understand is, Icon's question is not designed for an answer. Neither one of you are seriously seeking an answer. You are only seeking to justify your own prejudices about conservatives and the GOP. Nothing I say will satisfy you or any hardcore liberal.

But I do back up my opinions with facts nobody has refuted....because they are the truth!!

Just as surely blacks will overwhelmingly vote for Dems this week ( the ones who bother to vote ), they will still be complaining about the same things year after year! This makes no sense to me.

The GOP does not know how to ask black America for votes, we both admit this. There is disagreement within the party as to how to do this, but the door is wide open for any minority to walk right in. Especially black Americans!

As for what can they (GOP) do for you, my take is, what do you want them to do? Should they promise you the moon they way the Dems do, only to have people like New York's Carl McCall begging them to keep their promises?? I personally would like to see less government interference which would afford me more freedoms.

I would like to see a color-blind society with a level playing field not decided by skin color.

And I would like to see a country inherited by my grandkids' kids that values their freedoms and pursuit of happiness without costing them 50 per cent of their income or more to feed a bloated beaurocracy.

Unlike the suggestion that people vote for their own self-interest, I vote for the party that will best maintain our freedoms for generations long after I'm dead and forgotten. This present generation has an obligation to leave this land in the same condition or better for the next.

Am I an idealist?? Yes!

Am I naieve?? Maybe so!

Am I right?? Absolutely!!!

Am I sorry for the long-winded post?? Absolutely! frown


big grin big grin big grin
quote:
Originally posted by B Bankins:

The GOP does not know how to ask black America for votes, we both admit this. There is disagreement within the party as to how to do this, but the door is wide open for any minority to walk right in. Especially black Americans!




It seems like Colin Powell is a uniquely powerful assset that could be used in this effort. He has great numbers across America and is probably one of the few in the GOP that could "move the needle" with blacks for Republicans. Let him craft a moderate, inclusive message, essentially telling folks that "it's OK to be a Republican". That sounds funny, but I think something like that could work. Colin has a very calming, assuring personality. If he could explain why he is a Republican and why it is good for black America - he could make it happen.

And B Bankins, please sit down before you read this, but I also think a "what have you done for me lately message designed to question what African America has gotten from the Democrats would be a smart parallel message as well.

Either way, if it elects some black Republicans: great - we're broadening our base which probably makes sense. If not, it will no doubt push Democrats to deliver a bit more to black America - which obviously is good as well. Either way we win - right?

What do you think?

Onward and Upward!
Right Again, Mr. MBM. Also both parties have to deal with a growing Hispanic community that could in the future make the difference in close elections.

Just as you say, I see an opportunity to have a real voice in both parties, and who knows, maybe we can increase black reprsentation in the House and definately the senate.

As for Colin Powell, yes, he is not a conservative and I don't agree with some of his positions on issues, but I have much respect and admiration for what he has accomplished. I dare even say he's a far better Secretary of State than Madelin Albright.

I think Mr. Powell is scary to many on the Far Left because of his popular appeal and "gravitas" he brings to the Republican Party. This will surely attract some of the less politically motivated black Americans who are watching how the GOP treats him and Condi Rice.


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Backacha, darlin' on the mutual respect! smile I'm not sure how you got so twisted politically, but, you seem to be relatively normal in all other respects!! big grin If I can say nothing else about you, you seem to be the only Black Conservative Republican I have ever come across on any board who I would say is indeed (still) a Black man as it respects more than the color of your skin!!

Now, with all the pleasantries said and done, I now have to tell you that I am totally offended by your response to me!! There are two reasons why, at least one of which I know I've said before, but let me repeat it in hopes you don't make the same mistake twice! eek

First of all, I really don't appreciate being called a "hardcore liberal"!! As I have told you (and you say you read my posts, but you must have missed this one!) I DO NOT go into a voting booth and vote a straight Democratic ticket. Never have and never will. I vote on and for the issues and candidates that I feel will best serve my needs and interests! To group me into the same category at those "sheep" you are so fond of speaking of is condesending and considered an attack of my intellectual character! I can't say I'm surprised by it (considering your political party affiliation) but, I will tell you that I really don't appreciate it! And that's #1. big grin

#2 is I am amazed that you feel it appropriate to tell me that I don't want an answer to a question I've posed! eek I don't ask questions I don't want answers to!! And I do ask a lot of questions! Were I actually a "hardcore liberal" I wouldn't ever ask you anything because as a "hardcore Republican" you wouldn't be capable of providing me with a decent answer! To my dismay, you still haven't adequately answered it! big grin But, alas, I will now withdraw it ... I don't think it's worth asking it for a 3rd time!

It's late and way past my bedtime, but I need to conclude with a comment about your "level playing field" statement. "Level" means equal on both sides. You want to have a "fair and equal" race with me, but you take a shovel and dig out my lane (but not yours) and you place my hurdles on 1" thick blocks (but not yours) before I even get to the field. Yet, we're running to the same spot, so you call it fair! Not to mention the ball and chain I had to wear on my ankle in the week (or 300 years) preceding this race (but not on yours), but I've had an hour with it off (or 30 years) so I should be just fine, right? confused "Level" means starting from the same place and proceeding on the same ground. If you believe that this is even possible after the atrocity of slavery, well ... never mind, 'cause I can't even begin to go there!

Until America (generally) and the powers-that-be (specifically) can look at me and see a female American and not a Black woman, "level" is never going to be achieved!! It's been less than a hundred years since I was considered sub-human, chattel and intellectually-inferior ... simply because of the color of my skin! Unlike you, I can't afford to wait for a level playing field ... because if I do, I'll never get to play the game! roll eyes

[This message was edited by EbonyRose on November 06, 2002 at 11:17 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by my EbonyRose...

I'm not sure how you got so twisted politically, but, you seem to be relatively normal in all other respects!!


"Twisted politically?? Ohhh, now that's insulting. Especially after I've explained my political opinions to the point of boring the other forum members. But that's ok. You're the only person that can get away with it. wink


quote:
Originally posted by my EbonyRose...

First of all, I really don't appreciate being called a "hardcore liberal"!!


Yes, I know. If you reread the post you will see it differently....

"Nothing I say will satisfy you or any hardcore liberal."

Clearly I'm separating you from hardcore liberals with the use of "or any". If I wanted to call you a hardcore lib, I would have said "you hardcore liberals". Your post does prove the statement true that nothing I say will change your perception of what conservatives are.

Still, you were offended and that was not my intent, so once again, I beg your forgiveness. frown

Now your Take on my reference to a level playing field is blatantly unfair and misleading. Once again you have mischaracterized the GOP and conservatives as being racist. Nobody is putting any barriers to impede your progress.

Bill Clinton had to deal with a GOP controlled congress run by Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich in 1994, but the impeached ex-pres got every one of his Socialist spending programs through both Houses with very little opposition. In fact, I'll do another post just for you, my EbonyRose, to outline each and every spending bill they passed for ol' Bill. just say the word and I'll post it!!

And you know full well there is no way to make up for 300 years of slavery. In that context, the playing field will never be level. You cannot change or forget the past, but you cannot live in the past either.

"Twisted politically", and I'm letting you get away with that. wink frown


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I reread your post and in the context it was given, I see where I was indeed mistaken, and I offer my apology if you feel one is either warranted or desired!! smile

Now then, if you don't watch out, you are going to prove my point for me, which I would have to say I would absolute love! big grin

First of all, let me say that it's not my contention that the GOP/Conservs are racist .. at least not in this conversation!! lol Being racist doesn't necessarily have to do with failing to do the right thing! The Repubs don't want to do things the right way ... they want to do things their way. They are not trying to take what is broke and fix it. They are interested in doing something else all together. Preferably profitable and self-indulgent! Is race a factor? Unquestionably, but we don't even have to go there for this one! eek

Where race does factor is with respect to the "level playing field." Because in this statement ....

quote:
And you know full well there is no way to make up for 300 years of slavery. In that context, the playing field will never be level. You cannot change or forget the past, but you cannot live in the past either.



is all there is that needs to be said!! Because it's not about changing or forgetting or living in the past. It's about acknowledging that the past is very much a part of the present, and the future for that matter! 300 years of slavery is the very reason why we are where we are today! It's why we're even here on this continent!

Being black brought us here, because we were thought inferior. Being black is why we were relegated to "second-class citizens" once it was finally realized that we WERE citizens!! And I'm not going to talk about what happened during the time in between!! But is was kkin color. Period. Plain. And as simple as that. Now, there are laws on the books say that that's all over with. The socialogical framework of this country says differently. You can't ask me to start a "fair and equal" race with you with one leg tied behind my back. And then, once I do make it to the finish line, tell me to catch up, because you didn't bother to stop when you reached it, and I have to go even farther to actually catch up to, let alone actually be on "level" ground with you!

If the GOP really wants to be a party of the people, it needs to comprehend, acknowledge, accept and who the people really are! eek

[This message was edited by EbonyRose on November 07, 2002 at 08:07 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose....

300 years of slavery is the very reason why we are where we are today! It's why we're even here on this continent!


I have problems with this line of thinking. I have heard similar arguements in favor of Reparations, but this arguement is flawed in two ways, in my opinion;

(1) The Compromise of 1877, along with the abolishment of slavery were among the first steps to address the slave trade and unite the country torn apart by civil war. The Negro slaves could have been sent back to Africa to certain death.

(2) Linking slavery to the condition of Black America today is not quite accurate, since it is God who controls the miracle of creation. The majority of the Negroes taken from Africa did not end up here, so under God's will, we could have been born in any country. No black American living today has ever been a slave, so to link slavery to the present is counter-productive and places blacks as victims not responsible for their actions, and incapable of success through their own individual actions.

quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose...

You can't ask me to start a "fair and equal" race with you with one leg tied behind my back. And then, once I do make it to the finish line, tell me to catch up, because you didn't bother to stop when you reached it, and I have to go even farther to actually catch up to, let alone actually be on "level" ground with you!


No way I can sugar-coat my response to this, and I mean no disrespect, but we black Americans really need to shed this self-defeating line of reasoning that impedes our success.

Life is tough, unfair, and sometimes cruel, for everybody everywhere. Look at sucessful Americans in this country and examine the road they took to reach the top. You will find that they did not whine and moan about how difficult life was.

Elvis Presley and Buddy Holly were told their music was crap and would never sell.

James Brown, the Godfather of soul, was born dirt poor.

Mike Tyson was told he would never be a successful boxer.

Abraham Lincoln I believe, holds the record for the most failed attempts at political office in this country.

We are told everyday that we are losers, and our ideas and goals will never bear fruit. We are told because we are the descendents of slaves, we are inferior and cannot exist in polite society.

And yet the black community is growing at a faster rate that any other ethnic community with possibly the exception of the Hispanic community. We have produced more millionaires and billionaires, own more successful companies and earn higher incomes than other blacks living in other countries.

Now is everything perfect for black Americans here? Of course not, but the only obstacles that hold us back are the ones we create for ourselves. Not everybody can be Opra or Bill Cosby, but everyone can be the best they can be if they are willing to do what it takes to reach their goals.

As for the GOP, again this is not the party of the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Do not feed on liberal Democrat propaganda. The door is wide open for blacks willing to take an active role in American society and become productive Americans.

Just my politically twisted opinion.... wink


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Hellop Mr. Bankins,

Surely, someone must be listening and paying attention. Indeed, Black people cannot continue to use the vestibule of slavery past as a crutch, or excuse to do nothing to improve our own station in life.

It would behoove more of us to be more productive, to make the sacrifices to improve our own conditions. Heck, in the event Caucasian America, or any other ethnic group were to make the sacrifices, or put up the money, or perform the actual work, the outcome will not be for Black people's benefit, but rather for those who take the risks, put up the money, or perform the actual work. This is true be it here in the U.S., or any country within Black Africa.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, because indeed, Black people need to be more responsible for their own actions, and promote their own progress.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

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