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How important do you think politics will be to our ultimate liberation? Some argue that politics is irrelevant, that whatever meaningful gains we make will not come at the hands of a patently racist political establishment. Conservatives suggest that the government is actually part of the problem and not the solution. Others look to the gains of the Civil Rights Movement as an example of how politics can make a difference for us.

Do you think politics will play a greater or lesser role in our future? How important will politics be to our future?

© MBM

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I think that politics can definitely play a positive role in our liberation, only if the state and federal governments would stop redistricting every few years. We might be able to get a significant role in government. This is the oldest trick in the book, gerrymandering. This is how these people in power are staying in power. Texas is the worst example of this in recent times.
Right now, politics do not actually play a significant role in our 'liberation'. We have good representatives at the federal level who work very, very hard on our behalf, like John Conyers, Cynthia McKinney, and Shelia Jackson.
We're going to have to think of some other creative ways to do what we have to do. However, we can't even do that because we're worried about keeping up appearances. Well if we don't do something about various situations in our country, we won't have anything to keep up.

Peace
Politics is just another phase of the power games. politics deals with taxes and zoning and therefore affects economics. Kids are taught a bunch of abstract theory and not how this stuff actually affects our lives.

We are bombarded with polls and rhetoric and bullsh!t. We need to use this information technology to alter enough people's perspective to actually make this a meaningful democracy.

Secrecy

umbrarchist
if the state and federal governments would stop redistricting every few years. We might be able to get a significant role in government'....---Yemaya

Political power is the ultimate key to our achieving a parity position in our society.
\
Gerrymandering (redistricting) is a tool for managing the system of exclusion.

The Voting Rights Act is supposed to control that, e.g. Section 5.

We can never achieve our goal as long as we are members of political parties control by those who repress us.

May I suggest again, GET OUT!!!

Join the (African) American National Committee (Party)

Click here for the document

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We set an agenda for America that is, first of all, fair to African American-Americans, and all other people of African ancestry.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
We can never achieve our goal as long as we are members of political parties control by those who repress us.
Jim Chester


quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
We're going to have to think of some other creative ways to do what we have to do. However, we can't even do that because we're worried about keeping up appearances. Well if we don't do something about various situations in our country, we won't have anything to keep up.


appl appl appl
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

We can never achieve our goal as long as we are members of political parties control by those who repress us.

May I suggest again, GET OUT!!!


At only 13% natioanlly, how could African Americans make much of a political difference outside of the traditional Dem/Rep party structure?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
At only 13% natioanlly, how could African Americans make much of a political difference outside of the traditional Dem/Rep party structure?


Because out of that remaining 87%, there are too many that don't/won't/can't vote. And because of that, we are probably the biggest "minority" political power in this country.

(I'm sure Asians are probably a close second, but do not yet effectively affect the outcome of general elections.)

If even half of the disenfranchised Black people could/did vote or their votes were not tossed out when they do vote, elections in this country would take on a whole new meaning.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
At only 13% natioanlly, how could African Americans make much of a political difference outside of the traditional Dem/Rep party structure?


Because out of that remaining 87%, there are too many that don't/won't/can't vote. And because of that, we are probably the biggest "minority" political power in this country.

(I'm sure Asians are probably a close second, but do not yet effectively affect the outcome of general elections.)

If even half of the disenfranchised Black people could/did vote or their votes were not tossed out when they do vote, elections in this country would take on a whole new meaning.


So - in your opinion - what was the problem with the whole third party movement that ran Perot for president in the past? Certainly disaffected white voters frustrated at the partisianship and 'politics as usual' from Washington represent a base of well over 13% in this country. Why couldn't they make a stronger run? Also, if that significantly larger base couldn't do anything against the Dem/Rep structure, how could a solely black party do any better? This, particularly when that party wouldn't even be able to garner all of the African American voters.

Curious about your thoughts . . . bsm
The question as phrased is a hard on for me, for I would assert that everything is political or has been politicized. Bare life has become political [what we eat, who we love, what we read, what we say, where we work, what we do with our bodies, etc.] Any kind of liberation that I can conceive of must involve politics understood as that which is associated with power.
Very funny Frenchy. Was that a Freudian slip kresge? lol

quote:
At only 13% natioanlly, how could African Americans make much of a political difference outside of the traditional Dem/Rep party structure?


If Black Americans formed a separate party and consistently voted as a block we would be the swing vote in lots of elections. Both parties would have tor try to cater to us, but it would depend on that word we use a lot. UNITY! We would also need some sensible people making decisions and distributing information.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
So - in your opinion - what was the problem with the whole third party movement that ran Perot for president in the past? Certainly disaffected white voters frustrated at the partisianship and 'politics as usual' from Washington represent a base of well over 13% in this country. Why couldn't they make a stronger run? Also, if that significantly larger base couldn't do anything against the Dem/Rep structure, how could a solely black party do any better? This, particularly when that party wouldn't even be able to garner all of the African American voters.

Curious about your thoughts . . . bsm


Geez, MBM ... you're talking a really long time ago ... and I have slept many times since then! Big Grin

However, if memory serves me right, that was the election of Clinton's first victory, so that means it was the one Bush I's defeat.

Ross Perot's campaign was directed towards and appealed to young, white, moderate voters and not to any of the stalwart voters of either of the two main parties. The Republicans didn't/wouldn't realize that we were in trouble and had no desire not to put Bush I in for a second term. Black folks, traditionally afraid of change, were not about to support anybody but the Democratic nominee.

So the problem was that Perot was an old man with good ideas who could only manage to take a chunk of the white vote, none of the Black vote and could and did only succeed at disrupting the election just enough to put Bill in office.

Secondly, I have no position on a "solely" Black party. Such an idea would be totally ineffective to me. However, I do believe that as Black people have a significantly better idea, goal, intention and are much more amiable toward people all together than the current government structure, I believe that a party predominantly made up of, structured and run by us would be inclusive enough and able to intelligently portray the problem that plague our country in a way that would appeal to other ethnicities as well.

In other words, we could definitely build a better mousetrap!! And such a party would be supported by us ... because it was us, by others disenchanted with the corruption of the Republicans and the ineffectiveness of the Democrats.

I am not an isolationist, although I do strongly advocate us doing for ourselves outside of the current political structure in this country. But that is strictly for the betterment of ourselves ... not for the demise of others. I can't get hung up on the "13% of the population" thing, because, quite frankly, with the races now being so mixed and with the influx of newly-pronounced citizens every year ... it's much harder to tell who is who! Eek

But I do know in our long fight for justice and equality and fairness, we know a thing or two about how the pie should be sliced and divided. And I think there's a whole lot of other people who concur with our ideas on that issue.
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
The question as phrased is a hard on for me, for I would assert that everything is political or has been politicized. Bare life has become political [what we eat, who we love, what we read, what we say, where we work, what we do with our bodies, etc.] Any kind of liberation that I can conceive of must involve politics understood as that which is associated with power.


tfro appl appl appl tfro

SPEAK THAT TRUTH, KRESGE!!! dance

(Now that I had no problem understanding!) Wink Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:

The question as phrased is a hard on for me, for I would assert that everything is political or has been politicized. Bare life has become political [what we eat, who we love, what we read, what we say, where we work, what we do with our bodies, etc.] Any kind of liberation that I can conceive of must involve politics understood as that which is associated with power.


I only use the word "political" to differentiate from those activities that some of us propose which are outside the purview of government. For example, some would propose more "revolutionary" activities that are not dependent upon our working within the current political system.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Very funny Frenchy. Was that a Freudian slip kresge? lol

quote:
At only 13% natioanlly, how could African Americans make much of a political difference outside of the traditional Dem/Rep party structure?


If Black Americans formed a separate party and consistently voted as a block we would be the swing vote in lots of elections. Both parties would have tor try to cater to us, but it would depend on that word we use a lot. UNITY! We would also need some sensible people making decisions and distributing information.

umbra


That's a great idea, but it explicitly presumes that we are playing within the two party system. We would be swinging elections to either of the other parties. A truly independent third party would be running third party candidates and not just aggregating votes to pick either Democrat or Republican.
quote:
That's a great idea, but it explicitly presumes that we are playing within the two party system. We would be swinging elections to either of the other parties. A truly independent third party would be running third party candidates and not just aggregating votes to pick either Democrat or Republican.


There is no reason not to do both. In local elections where there is a reasonable chance of success we could run candidates. In situations where there is practically no chance we could play the swing vote game.

Power games are about strategies and tactics. There is no reason to limit your tactics.

"Know your enemy, know yourself and in 100 battles you will not be defeated." - Sun Tzu

The obvious corollary to this is: The less your enemy knows about you the better.

Is that why Europeans called the Chinese inscrutable? lol

umbra

ps - I thought the people that voted for Nader were ridiculous. What would have happened if they had voted for Gore? Nader never had a chance.

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