Last night I was enjoying some superb live jazz at a local spot with a couple of good male friends. I was surprised that these two nice-looking, strong, funny, hard-working guys were complaining that the women they would like to date "don't want anything to do" with men like them.

Why? I asked. "If you are not making in the high six figures, the average woman wants nothing to do with you," said one. My other friend believes "women want knuckleheads; guys who use and abuse them. A lot of women do not want nice guys," he lamented.

We spent much of the night, between the sweet sax rhythms, discussing why many women are attracted to emotionally abusive, unavailable guys. Maybe it's the challenge of trying to change a bad boy into a good man or perhaps it's a woman's tendency to forgive the bad and savor the good. How do I know?
Been there, done that, have t-shirts in all sizes.

I believe everybody wants to be loved and treated well. All that glitters is not gold. Sometimes it just takes kissing lots of dark and moody frogs to find a shining prince.

Do nice guys finish last?

www.robynwrites.com
Robyn McGee, author Hungry for More: A Keeping it Real Guide for Black Women on Weight and Body Image
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Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by hungry4more:
Last night I was enjoying some superb live jazz at a local spot with a couple of good male friends. I was surprised that these two nice-looking, strong, funny, hard-working guys were complaining that the women they would like to date "don't want anything to do" with men like them.

Why? I asked. "If you are not making in the high six figures, the average woman wants nothing to do with you," said one. My other friend believes "women want knuckleheads; guys who use and abuse them. A lot of women do not want nice guys," he lamented.

We spent much of the night, between the sweet sax rhythms, discussing why many women are attracted to emotionally abusive, unavailable guys. Maybe it's the challenge of trying to change a bad boy into a good man or perhaps it's a woman's tendency to forgive the bad and savor the good. How do I know?
Been there, done that, have t-shirts in all sizes.

I believe everybody wants to be loved and treated well. All that glitters is not gold. Sometimes it just takes kissing lots of dark and moody frogs to find a shining prince.

Do nice guys finish last?


hungry4more:
With all due respect, I think your boys have missed it. Have they asked themselves why they'd want to be burdened with a woman who makes a key (relationship)decision on how much money someone makes? do not character, personality, intellect matter?

Do they not consider themselves worthy of a woman whose criteria at least considers a man's capacity for commitment, sincerity, compassion? Yes, economic security is important, but if these particular sistas make their decisions/calls on a man's salary situation, then your boys should realize they got away clean and maybe should be grateful for that.

...and to answer your question? nah, we don't finish last. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by TruthSeeker:
Have they asked themselves why they'd want to be burdened with a woman who makes a key (relationship) decision on how much money someone makes? do not character, personality, intellect matter?

tfro
quote:
I believe everybody wants to be loved and treated well.

while I agree with this of course, I don't think it's enough to sustain a long-term relationship. A couple doesn't have to be 'joined at the hip', but I believe you must share enough common interests to do together to keep you both happy and involved. While the interests you don't share, allow each person to bring fresh ideas, and different input to the relationship to keep it interesting.

Money can come and go depending on circumstances. Money allows more options, and lack of money makes you creative and inventive by necessity. I guess my 'barometer' is if you can have a great time with someone without money, you always will. Money is the icing on the cake, not the egg that binds the ingredients. My 2 cents.
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too.

Every other excuse, I refuse to believe based on the grounds of logic and rational reasoning. 14
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too.

Every other excuse, I refuse to believe based on the grounds of logic and rational reasoning. 14


Oh, cut it out!
quote:
Originally posted by the quiet one:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too.

Every other excuse, I refuse to believe based on the grounds of logic and rational reasoning. 14


Oh, cut it out!


Hey prove me wrong. I'll be happy to take the hit.
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
quote:
Originally posted by the quiet one:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too.

Every other excuse, I refuse to believe based on the grounds of logic and rational reasoning. 14


Oh, cut it out!


Hey prove me wrong. I'll be happy to take the hit.



I think you and i, have had this conversation before.

Lets say this.....

Youre in a club, and there are 3 women standing together.........and you pick one of the 3 to either dance with, or talk to. Most men will end up picking the same woman (one of the 3) over and over again.

Now the strange part about this.....is that none of the other women are ugly or look bad.....they are "average".

Ok, she turns you down.........and pays attention to the "knucklehead" (whatever that means).

How could you possibly get upset, when you had your choice........and you chose her, and not one of the "average" sistas.

My point is this..........

A lot of "average" women are overlooked, and men complain after the fact.

These are excuses.....
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:


My point is this..........

A lot of "average" women are overlooked, and men complain after the fact.

These are excuses.....


Very true.
I'm sorry. I have to disagree. Comparing looks with thuggery is ridiculous.

Ain't nobody went to jail b/c he was average or she was too pretty.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
quote:
Originally posted by the quiet one:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too.

Every other excuse, I refuse to believe based on the grounds of logic and rational reasoning. 14


Oh, cut it out!


Hey prove me wrong. I'll be happy to take the hit.



I think you and i, have had this conversation before.

Lets say this.....

Youre in a club, and there are 3 women standing together.........and you pick one of the 3 to either dance with, or talk to. Most men will end up picking the same woman (one of the 3) over and over again.

Now the strange part about this.....is that none of the other women are ugly or look bad.....they are "average".

Ok, she turns you down.........and pays attention to the "knucklehead" (whatever that means).

How could you possibly get upset, when you had your choice........and you chose her, and not one of the "average" sistas.

My point is this..........

A lot of "average" women are overlooked, and men complain after the fact.

These are excuses.....


What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?
Is Jessica Alba "average" to Eva Mendes?
Is Vida Guerra "average" to Jennifer Lopez?
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quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?


Yes exactly.......

Most men will date Beyonce in a heart beat. Just look at the amount of pics that men put up on this board........and the comments.

Where are the pics of Kelly? Or Michelle?

The key is that a LOT of men pick the same woman.....in an enviroment, where there are many choices. But after Beyonce has turned them down, some men whine that they just cant find a physically attractive sista.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?


Yes exactly.......

Most men will date Beyonce in a heart beat. Just look at the amount of pics that men put up on this board........and the comments.

Where are the pics of Kelly? Or Michelle?

The key is that a LOT of men pick the same woman.....in an enviroment, where there are many choices. But after Beyonce has turned them down, some men whine that they just cant find a physically attractive sista.




Does this mean I get to go out with Kelly? Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?


Yes exactly.......

Most men will date Beyonce in a heart beat. Just look at the amount of pics that men put up on this board........and the comments.

Where are the pics of Kelly? Or Michelle?

The key is that a LOT of men pick the same woman.....in an enviroment, where there are many choices. But after Beyonce has turned them down, some men whine that they just cant find a physically attractive sista.




Does this mean I get to go out with Kelly? Big Grin


Only if I get to go out with Michelle. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?



Yes exactly.......

Most men will date Beyonce in a heart beat. Just look at the amount of pics that men put up on this board........and the comments.

Where are the pics of Kelly? Or Michelle?

The key is that a LOT of men pick the same woman.....in an enviroment, where there are many choices. But after Beyonce has turned them down, some men whine that they just cant find a physically attractive sista.




Does this mean I get to go out with Kelly? Big Grin


Only if I get to go out with Michelle. Big Grin




That would be a deal! Big Grin ... cabbage

yum ... yum ... yummy ...
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

What is your definition of "average?" Is Kelly Rowland "average" compared to Beyonce?


Yes exactly.......

Most men will date Beyonce in a heart beat. Just look at the amount of pics that men put up on this board........and the comments.

Where are the pics of Kelly? Or Michelle?

The key is that a LOT of men pick the same woman.....in an enviroment, where there are many choices. But after Beyonce has turned them down, some men whine that they just cant find a physically attractive sista.


If this was Hollywood, yes I could see your point. But since this isn't Hollywood, let me just say that there is a lonnnnng line of brothers that would love to get with Kelly and/or Michelle, HB and myself included.

Beyonce' is a flashy hottie (i.e. in your face sexy), whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, i.e. it's much more subtle sexy...if there is such a thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

If this was Hollywood, yes I could see your point. But since this isn't Hollywood, let me just say that there is a lonnnnng line of brothers that would love to get with Kelly and/or Michelle, HB and myself included.

Beyonce' is a flashy hottie (i.e. in your face sexy), whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, i.e. it's much more subtle sexy...if there is such a thing.



Well i see women like Michelle/Kelly every day.......and they are childless, single, etc.

The reality is, most men will be attracted to that "flashy hottie", for the moment.........while allowing the "stealth" hottie to get away.

Frown
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

If this was Hollywood, yes I could see your point. But since this isn't Hollywood, let me just say that there is a lonnnnng line of brothers that would love to get with Kelly and/or Michelle, HB and myself included.

Beyonce' is a flashy hottie (i.e. in your face sexy), whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, i.e. it's much more subtle sexy...if there is such a thing.



Well i see women like Michelle/Kelly every day.......and they are childless, single, etc.

The reality is, most men will be attracted to that "flashy hottie", for the moment.........while allowing the "stealth" hottie to get away.

Frown




Qty, I can't speak for the countless butte-heads who have their eyes glued on Beyonce ... but you can absolutely rest assured that a stealth hottie never went unnoticed on my watch ... nono
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KELLY AND BEYONCE ARE VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN. MOST MEN TODAY ARE ATTRACTED TO THE BEAUTY ON THE OUTER LAYER, AND JUMP INTO RELATIONSHIPS WITHOUT GETTING TO KNOW THE INNER PERSON. NO ONE WANTS A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN THAT HAS A TERRIBLE PERSONALITY, AND DOWNRIGHT UGLY PERSON, AND I THINK OUR SISTAS DOESNT WANT A FINE MAN THAT IS STUCK ON HIMSELF, AND UNINTELLIGENT.

GIVE ME THE BRAIN, ROMANTIC, AND THE MAN THAT WANTS TO KNOW ME ANY DAY.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

If this was Hollywood, yes I could see your point. But since this isn't Hollywood, let me just say that there is a lonnnnng line of brothers that would love to get with Kelly and/or Michelle, HB and myself included.

Beyonce' is a flashy hottie (i.e. in your face sexy), whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, i.e. it's much more subtle sexy...if there is such a thing.



Well i see women like Michelle/Kelly every day.......and they are childless, single, etc.

The reality is, most men will be attracted to that "flashy hottie", for the moment.........while allowing the "stealth" hottie to get away.

Frown




Qty, I can't speak for the countless butte-heads who have their eyes glued on Beyonce ... but you can absolutely rest assured that a stealth hottie never went unnoticed on my watch ... nono
Second that.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:

If this was Hollywood, yes I could see your point. But since this isn't Hollywood, let me just say that there is a lonnnnng line of brothers that would love to get with Kelly and/or Michelle, HB and myself included.

Beyonce' is a flashy hottie (i.e. in your face sexy), whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, i.e. it's much more subtle sexy...if there is such a thing.



Well i see women like Michelle/Kelly every day.......and they are childless, single, etc.


I need to visit wherever you live, if you see single childless woman like this everyday!

The reality is, most men will be attracted to that "flashy hottie", for the moment.........while allowing the "stealth" hottie to get away.

I some what agree with you but it goes both ways, I have a friend thats a "pretty boy" and Im and average looking guy. He generates alot more interest than I do with the ladies, and knowing him personally hes honestly a DOG. So females are just as shallow as guys.
Frown
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too. 14


Good answer, but no cigar.

Sometimes opposites attrack, but most of the time like attracks like.
quote:
Originally posted by The Vision:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
To answer the thread question, the only viable answer I can come up with is...women are knuckleheads too. 14


Good answer, but no cigar.

Sometimes opposites attrack, but most of the time like attracks like.


Being attracted to an idiot is not a good quality to have. My answer stands as stated.
quote:
Originally posted by Athlon64Bit:
quote:
Why do women love "knuckleheads"?


It's genetic. Not much they can do about it.

Eek nono
quote:
Originally posted by FireFly:
quote:
Huey: whereas Kelly is a "stealth" hottie...

lol appl


Firefly, you and the rest of the AA.org know I'm telling the truth. Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, whereas Beyonce is a "IN YOUR FACE" uber-hottie. She's hot. She knows she's hot, and if you forget she's hot, she will REMIND you how hot she is. When Beyonce is in the room, sometimes you forget that Kelly (or Michelle) is also in the room. Get it? It's like if Salma Hayek (OMG) is in the room, you kinda forget about Eva Mendes, Camille Guaty or Zoe Saldana in also in the room. If you get rid of the alpha hotties/uber-hotties, all the stealth hotties will have room to shine and guys will flock to them.

It's true. I just call it like I see it. It happened to me. For example, I remember this fly, hot, sexy ass desi (South Asian/East Indian) coed that lived across the hall from my female friend's room in her dorm. Her name was Gunjin. Yeah, her name was weird, but her looks made up for it. She was FINE AS HELLL!!! Beautiful face, full pouty lips, sexy body, long dark hair, smooth skin. I don't have to tell you how long the line was on campus for dudes (myself included) that wanted to explore Gunjin's "dungeon."

Anyway, my hometown friend came from out of town, to visit me and my female friend Sharon. Soon as Sharon leaves her door open, an hour later, guess who gets back to her room across the way?...Gunjin, with her fine ass. (pause to wipe off drool)

I introduce my hometown friend to Gunjin and her roommate...and needless to say, my friend and I totally forget about her roommate, b/c we were so mesmerized by her looks. 10 minutes after we had a great conversation with Miss G, We get back to Sharon, and she gets mad at us for drooling and pawning all over Gunjin and ignoring her roommate.

"I bet you don't even know her roommate's name," Sharon said. And she was right. We didn't even remember the name of Gunjin's roommate. I don't even remember to this day...whether it was Susie, Megan or Plain Jane McClane. All I know about her is that she was female, a mammal, and possibly had brunette or auburn hair.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Firefly, you and the rest of the AA.org know I'm telling the truth. Kelly is a "stealth" hottie, whereas Beyonce is a "IN YOUR FACE" uber-hottie. She's hot. She knows she's hot, and if you forget she's hot, she will REMIND you how hot she is. When Beyonce is in the room, sometimes you forget that Kelly (or Michelle) is also in the room. Get it? It's like if Salma Hayek (OMG) is in the room, you kinda forget about Eva Mendes, Camille Guaty or Zoe Saldana in also in the room. If you get rid of the alpha hotties/uber-hotties, all the stealth hotties will have room to shine and guys will flock to them.

It's true. I just call it like I see it. It happened to me. For example, I remember this fly, hot, sexy ass desi (South Asian/East Indian) coed that lived across the hall from my female friend's room in her dorm. Her name was Gunjin. Yeah, her name was weird, but her looks made up for it. She was FINE AS HELLL!!! Beautiful face, full pouty lips, sexy body, long dark hair, smooth skin. I don't have to tell you how long the line was on campus for dudes (myself included) that wanted to explore Gunjin's "dungeon."

Anyway, my hometown friend came from out of town, to visit me and my female friend Sharon. Soon as Sharon leaves her door open, an hour later, guess who gets back to her room across the way?...Gunjin, with her fine ass. (pause to wipe off drool)

I introduce my hometown friend to Gunjin and her roommate...and needless to say, my friend and I totally forget about her roommate, b/c we were so mesmerized by her looks. 10 minutes after we had a great conversation with Miss G, We get back to Sharon, and she gets mad at us for drooling and pawning all over Gunjin and ignoring her roommate.

"I bet you don't even know her roommate's name," Sharon said. And she was right. We didn't even remember the name of Gunjin's roommate. I don't even remember to this day...whether it was Susie, Megan or Plain Jane McClane. All I know about her is that she was female, a mammal, and possibly had brunette or auburn hair.



Youre too funny lol

But you have just proven my point........

ALL of the guys chase the "IN YOUR FACE" hottie, while ignoring the "stealth" hottie.

There is nothing wrong with this, these men should continue to chase who they 'like'.

But.......dont complain or try to run after the "stealth" hottie, when the well runs dry. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:

Youre too funny lol

But you have just proven my point........

ALL of the guys chase the "IN YOUR FACE" hottie, while ignoring the "stealth" hottie.

There is nothing wrong with this, these men should continue to chase who they 'like'.

But.......dont complain or try to run after the "stealth" hottie, when the well runs dry. Big Grin


I agree, qty. I see men chasing the big bootie weave wearers or the asian/exotic type. What about the "regular" sista-who is really not so "regular" at all?! I know that was off but..........
Would Kenya Moore be considered an uber-hottie (IN YOUR FACE/Superhottie) since she was a former Miss USA, or a "regular" stealth hottie, because she's not in the public eye anymore?
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
ALL of the guys chase the "IN YOUR FACE" hottie, while ignoring the "stealth" hottie.


To me, it follows the standard of marketing. Some women stand out and grab a man's attention through advertising; anything that catches the eye: loud-hairstyles, make-up, cleavage, painted on pants, busy outfit, etc.

The mistake some men make is being manipulated visually. I think that there is prize and reward for making sure to notice the women that are not advertising themselves but just as fine.
Eek

quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
The mistake some men make is being manipulated visually. I think that there is prize and reward for making sure to notice the women that are not advertising themselves but just as fine.



.
Wink
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
I agree, qty. I see men chasing the big bootie weave wearers or the asian/exotic type. What about the "regular" sista-who is really not so "regular" at all?! I know that was off but..........


Youre not off topic......and youre absolutely right.

I see beautiful sistas all the time ("not so regular"), sitting alone in a club/bar, etc.......while the men are chasing the same damn woman.



I dont get it.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Would Kenya Moore be considered an uber-hottie (IN YOUR FACE/Superhottie) since she was a former Miss USA, or a "regular" stealth hottie, because she's not in the public eye anymore?


Im not sure......shes a beautiful woman, but i would imagine if you put her and Beyonce in the same room.......very few men would notice her.
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
ALL of the guys chase the "IN YOUR FACE" hottie, while ignoring the "stealth" hottie.


To me, it follows the standard of marketing. Some women stand out and grab a man's attention through advertising; anything that catches the eye: loud-hairstyles, make-up, cleavage, painted on pants, busy outfit, etc.

The mistake some men make is being manipulated visually. I think that there is prize and reward for making sure to notice the women that are not advertising themselves but just as fine.



I have to agree with this....
What happened to the sharp left turn that made this about MEN. Isn't the topic why women love knuckleheads? So perhaps in keeping with detroit1's thought, women should also take the time to go beyond the surface of tall, muscled, wealthy, nice house or car, or high social status and pay attention to the men who don't flaunt & flash these things (even though they may possess them) that may happen to be good people.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Would Kenya Moore be considered an uber-hottie (IN YOUR FACE/Superhottie) since she was a former Miss USA, or a "regular" stealth hottie, because she's not in the public eye anymore?


I've been in love with Kenya since...FOREVER and a day...she's an uber hottie with a capital U!

I'm sorry but as attractive as Beyonce is..she ain't got SHIT on Kenya Moore! I'm speaking truth right thuurrrr....
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
What happened to the sharp left turn that made this about MEN. Isn't the topic why women love knuckleheads?

yeah

So perhaps in keeping with detroit1's thought, women should also take the time to go beyond the surface of tall, muscled, wealthy, nice house or car, or high social status and pay attention to the men who don't flaunt & flash these things (even though they may possess them) that may happen to be good people.and men NEED to do the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Tre:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
What happened to the sharp left turn that made this about MEN. Isn't the topic why women love knuckleheads?

yeah

So perhaps in keeping with detroit1's thought, women should also take the time to go beyond the surface of tall, muscled, wealthy, nice house or car, or high social status and pay attention to the men who don't flaunt & flash these things (even though they may possess them) that may happen to be good people.and men NEED to do the same thing.


Perhaps, but WOMEN are the ones dating these knuckleheads, not men. Look at "Flavor of Love 2" on VH1. New York played herself twice by Flav dumping her 2 times. I hope she's trying to be seen on TV instead of really being "in love" with him, b/c she's punishing herself. I mean if a CRACKHEAD (like Flav) don't want you...that should be a hint and a half for you to move on.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Perhaps, but WOMEN are the ones dating these knuckleheads, not men.

I know you're not saying that men don't date knuckleheads. Tell me you're not telling me this. td6

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