Skip to main content

Why are test scores and academic achievement of middle and upper class blacks still below that of whites and not much better than that of poor blacks, if race is not a disadvantage in America? Is it that blacks are simply intellectually inferior in genetic mental capacity or does the state of blackness still pose a disadvantage in this society?

I think that that is a simply way out for society focus on the measurable effects of years of oppression and discrimination as manifested in a deprivation of income and wealth...i.e. poverty. However, it is a totally false assertion to assume that income deprivation was the sole effect of years of oppression, for if you gave each and every black family in America half a million dollars, ten or 20 years down the line blacks will be in the same collective position they were in prior to receiving the money. Thus, correcting income deprivation will not increase black test scores and improve GPA's beyond a marginal change and I think we all know this.

Thus, to ignore the impact of being black in America and just focus on income and then just assume that all poor people grades are suffering due to income deprivation of the family ignores the other ways in which oppression has affected black people. The biggest effect of 300 years of oppression upon black people has been psychological and cultural and not economical. Thus, dealing with the economics in and of itself will not drastically change the position of blacks in this nation and affirmative action for blacks SHOULD be also about creating a pool of successful role models who have gained prominence via science and industry.

Most people who are not black cannot relate to the disadvantage of living in a world with a deprivation of success of people that look like you do. The world that black people live in is plagued by much more negative images of black people, than positive images of black people. Most of the positive images of black people in this world is dominated in sports and entertainment and thus it does not take a rocket scientist to realize why sports and entertainment has such a great pull for our youth, especially the males.

How does one quantify the effects of living in a world robbed of your history, your culture, your language, your racial-esteem and any images and models of black independent success? These things were robbed of black people from 400 years of slavery, colonization, exploitation and the robbing or controlling of all things of marketable value from black people and the continent of Africa. How do you begin to quantify and measure the psychological impact of all this upon the minds of black people?

I have evolved to firmly believe that what black people need the most in this world is an independent model of success of a black entity in this world, most preferably in the form of a nation...a prosperous and economically and militarily strong black nation. Such would give black people SOMETHING in this world to give confidence of the possibilities that come with being black. It would negate all the history of black inferiority and radically change the way black people see their possibilities and options.

Short of that, I think that Affirmative Action, if working properly, should supply a large pool of blacks in intellectual profession in America, so that the black youth masses will have images to aspire too other than sports and entertainment. Thus I believe that a primary goal of affirmative action should also be to deal with the positive image and occupation deprivation that has resulted from years of oppression. That goal would be accomplished by promoting qualified blacks in this society, regardless if there is more qualified "other" candidates.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
Noah The African in America
Vita vya panzi (ni) furaha ya kunguru. War among grasshoppers delights the crow. Msema kweli hana wajoli. The speaker of truth has few friends. ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I would answer your question by saying: they have less parental influence. Middleclass wealth means working parents means lax supervision. In poorer households, the likelihood of a parent being home all the time is much higher, supervision increases, which results in higher grades.

Kids in poorer homes who have a parent present, usually are urged to succeed to removed themselves from their circumstances, and in the situations where this is not the case, those same children are motivated by their own desire to improve their lot in life.

The education system itself is flawed to be honest. It is a monster that needs to be shot and killed, with no attempt at resuscitation. The problem is nto with the teachers, but with the student's motivation. If he or she has none, there is nothing the teacher can really do about it, and if the parent cannot motivate the child, there is nothing anyone can really do.

I can see how race relations could play a part in this, but the problems always start at home. Outside the home, what usually goes ignored is magnified in light of external observation, called attention to and subsequently blame applied. With so many people with the same problem, no parent one wants to admit fault. So they blame the system, the educators, the education, and even the busdrivers. Everyone they blame except themselves. The child exists because of them. As a mother or father it is your direct responsibility to see to the development and discipline of your offspring.

But modern man, with modern rules, and of course, modern laziness, has rejected the natural order of things had have falsified it. Creating a monster called the Education Department. Into which every kid, regardless of race, color, and creed, is absorbed into. None of them ever come out the same.

But of course, this is my opinion. I personally am not sending my kids back to public or private school next year. This summer is the first summer of the rest of their lives. Smile

Isaiah 1;2-3
"Hear, O heavens, and listen, O earth; for the LORD has spoken: I reared up children and brought them up, but they have rebelled agaist me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib; but Israel does not know, My people do not understand."
Would handing a man with a broken leg, a crutch remedy his situation? Sure, he'll be ambulatory; but if the leg is not set, the crutch only serves to aggravate the injury.

They gave us Affirmative Action, but our legs are still broken. And they just voted to 'retain' the crutch! Oh joy.

Isaiah 1;2-3
"Hear, O heavens, and listen, O earth; for the LORD has spoken: I reared up children and brought them up, but they have rebelled agaist me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib; but Israel does not know, My people do not understand."
Jiang...

Look... I don't know what you have in your head but... what makes you think we need your advice on what we should do or what we should think???

How many African-Americans you know that have given you the same "friendly" advised or offered the same type of commentary about Asians that you are doing now here on this African-American forum?

I'm trying to be nice... but you know you would not take our advice on what YOUR PEOPLE *NEED* TO DO.... so why do you feel so at home with "sharing" your perspective with us?
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Jiang...

Look... I don't know what you have in your head but... what makes you think we need your advice on what we should do or what we should think???

How many African-Americans you know that have given you the same "friendly" advised or offered the same type of commentary about Asians that you are doing now here on this African-American forum?

I'm trying to be nice... but you know you would not take our advice on what YOUR PEOPLE *NEED* TO DO.... so why do you feel so at home with "sharing" your perspective with us?


The first sentence of my post only reiterated what has been said before.

The second part consists of questions of "what is" and there is no advice given there. We are debating the merits of Affirmative action.
If Jiang were black and made that statement, he/she would not be so quickly attacked. The truth is we are at a point where education is not valued. Too many of us want the bling-bling life.

However, there are other influences for our poor educational circumstances - lack of parental input, teachers making little effort to educate our children, etc.

An academician studied the phenomena of well-off black kids not doing as well on standardized tests as their white peers. Simply put - the black kids put to much stress on themselves and choke under pressure of trying to disprove educational stereotypes.
Is it true that we are at a state were education in the black community is valued less than in the past or is it the case that education is valued the same as in the past, but NEEDs to be valued more in the modern era than in the past? I dare say that is the later. In the past, barring discrimination, all that you needed to make a good descent living is a strong back and good work ethic. The pool of available jobs in America 40 or 50 years ago primarily did not require a college degree or even a high school degree. Today, it is totally different. A high school diploma is requited for many low wage jobs today and a large and increasing number of jobs that earn good pay require a college degree.

Thus, I do not agree with the notion that blacks valuing education less, it just appears that way based upon the increased need and demand for educated people by the economy of the modem era. Consequently, blacks are simply STAGNATED and stuck in the old mindset of an old era when jobs were much more plentiful for the unskilled and uneducated.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
Noah The African in America
When a well-thought-out opinion on an issue is advanced, I think (just my opinion) that people should criticize it and try to show why they think it's wrong before offering altenative opinions on the same issue.

Noah African's first post was so thorough, so profound, and so on point that I don't see how somebody else can say, "Well, I think the problem is this other thing," without commenting on Noah's take. Because if you think you're right, then you must think Noah isn't. And I'm curious as to why you'd think so.

My own take: While I don't think a successful, powerful, black nation-state is necessary to help the problem, it damn sure would help. I think even I, who strongly urge personal responsibility, would perform better in life if I saw such a thing.
To expound on a note from Noah's original post concerning the pull that sports and entertainment have on young Black folk because this is something many Black folk try to say is one of our biggest if not the biggest problem facing Black folk the way our youth view sports and entertainers or as expressed on this board their attraction to the Bling Bling.

To understand this phenomenon we need to only look back to the 70's. In the 70's and early 80's before rap was an accepted and respected art form what was the dream of our children and what did they want to be? We all thought we could grow up to be singers, comedians or athletes because these were the most successful men and women who we seen on TV, who we saw in our communities and who associated with coming from where we are. Black people understand to be successful you need only to emulate those you see as successful. Black doctors, lawyers and police persons were a reality but were under represented and therefore not seen as a viable way to success because there was a disconnect between their professions and our youth and our community. However you take the mail person, the delivery person all of whom we see in the neighbor hood and look like us for the most part their was no disconnect so Black folk always applied for work at these places because these are places that we see as being friendly to Black folk in a hostile country.

If we consider the percentage of Black folk that live in poverty and look at the profession most associated with a story of rising from this kind of poverty, we can understand why Black youth who live in the same poverty these men and women did, now look to them as role models. This is not to say there are no Black teachers, doctors, lawyers, firemen policemen and so on who rose up out of poverty but it is to say they are not everyday realities in our life to the point where we can associate rising up out of poverty with becoming one of them. However you take sports and entertainment that our youth who live in abject poverty are bombarded with and you take the life story of those men and women in this line of work, understanding why they are looked to as role models comes easy. Our youth look at them and say he or she is just like me, raised by a single parent, lived in a deprived neighborhood and rose up out of that by rapping or entertaining.

If we are to change the culture of our community we must put Black men and women in positions of authority over our youth, meaning we must be the policemen, we must be the teachers, we must be the counselors, we must be the youth advisors, we must be the crossing guards, we must be the preachers, we must be the doctors and we must be able to show them by putting Black faces in positions of authority over them that there is no disconnect between rising up out of poverty and being something other than an athlete or entertainer.

-------------------------
The Black man and woman in America is a nation of people; a stolen and lost nation, but a nation none the less. The U.S. just destroyed Iraq in thirty days and has allocated close to $80 billion to rebuild Iraq. The Black man and woman in America was terrorized and destroyed for well over four hundred years. How much do you think it would take to rebuild a nation that was destroyed and bombed for four hundred years if it takes $80 billion to rebuild a nation destroyed in thirty days?


More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Asian-Americans are overrepresented in college without famous successful models. There are far more black politicians than Asian ones, far more famous blacks in the corporate world than famous Asian-American ones. There is no Asian-American equivalent of Jesse Jackson or Johnny Cochran. AA will not solve anything, all it will do is create a new batch of elite blacks without addressing the problems of poorer neighborhoods. If only middle and upper class blacks benefit from AA, how does that help the poor inner-city blacks? AA was never meant to help poor blacks, it was meant to help the Johnny Cochran Jrs. and Jesse Jackson Jrs. of the world. It sure as hell won't help Darnell Washington in the ghettos of East Baltimore stay off the corner. If a young black male in an inner city ghetto is living in a single-parent household, working a part-time job to help pay the electric bill, and seeing some of his best friends get shot, do you really think he's thinking about going to college and getting AA? Some of his friends won't live to see graduation and you think him seeing some positive role models that benefitted from AA is the answer to his problems? All AA will do is create an even bigger gap between the rich and the poor. The answer does not lie in getting more elite positive role models, the answer lies in getting entire communities to focus more on education. Asian-American communities emphasize education, they don't care about elite role models. That's what needs to happen.
quote:
Originally posted by o(0)o:
Asian-Americans are overrepresented in college without famous successful models. There are far more black politicians than Asian ones, far more famous blacks in the corporate world than famous Asian-American ones. There is no Asian-American equivalent of Jesse Jackson or Johnny Cochran.


What do you think would happen to the Asian community's current commitment to education if the United States systematically enslaved Asians in this country, destroyed their family structure by cavalierly buying and selling family members apart from each other; erased all recognition of prior culture, language, religion; stripped them of their names, made it illegal for them to read and write; lynched, maimed, and beat them wantonly, raped their women at will, etc., etc., etc. for 300+ years? Can there be any doubt that that famous focus on education would be negatively impacted? After 10 generations of that there would be no commitment to learning and education and success. There would be no "memory" of any positive links to any history that could provide some measure of cultural and personal self-esteem.

Asians, despite perhaps being new to this country, have a history of thousands of years of achievement and culture and family that acts as a critical foundation to much of their relative success here. Remove that and what do you think would be the difference between that enslaved Asian American community and the current African American community?

quote:
AA will not solve anything, all it will do is create a new batch of elite blacks without addressing the problems of poorer neighborhoods.


What is your point with this statement? What connection does it have to the merits of AA?

No one here (or frankly anywhere within the black community) suggests that AA is a panacea. In this country less than 25% of all Americans graduate from college. By definition that renders college an "elitist" thing. Why should that fact work against the aspirations and futures of those African Americans to whom college is an appropriate opportunity? Let there be no doubt that racism does not diminish as socio-economic standing rises. In fact, very strong arguments can be made that racism is worse as groups typically not in positions of power begin to intrude upon the pinnacle of white male preference.

quote:
If only middle and upper class blacks benefit from AA, how does that help the poor inner-city blacks?


It doesn't. It wasn't meant to. Other appropriate measures should be in place to address the needs of other parts of our community. If I have the flu, do I not take an antihistamine just because it does not also stop my fever?



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.


[This message was edited by MBM on June 24, 2003 at 10:07 PM.]
MBM again you miss my point, I don't know why I bother. How did my statement that the success of Asian-Americans has nothing to do with role models get turned into talk about past discrimination and slavery etc. Noah said that role models will help blacks in education, I said it doesn't, an emphasis on education from the community is more important. What don't you understand? I didn't say why Asian-Americans have an emphasis on education, I just said that they do and this is more important than having a Michael Jordan of the corporate world.
I thought Noah was talking about blacks as a whole, if you don't care about the poor blacks who make up a significant percentage, then what was the point of his original post? That middle and upper class blacks need to become upper class and elite blacks? I already addressed fundamental problems with AA in the other thread which you ignored or misinterpreted as you did in this thread. Here I was just talking about the importance of role models.
I guess we're speaking two different languages. Funny how that happens, huh?

Can you not see how role models might be more important to a community that does not have the benefit of the connection to a thousands years history of achievement and success and education that many Asian Americans in this country have?

Further, how is the fact that you cannot name an "Asian Johnny Cochran" at all relevant to anything written here? Does the history and condition of the Asian American community in America at all parallel that of the African American community? If not then what is the purpose of your analogy?

Now respond to my questions/points in my last post if you will. Otherwise, please "DON'T bother".



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
nothing exactly parallels anything else. You can always split hairs. If you don't want to see a parallel then you won't, you know what they say about leading a horse to water. I was explaining why Asian-Americans are successful, role models have nothing to do with it. Can you not see that? No Asian Johnny Cochran shows why Asian-Americans are successful, it's because of community values not role models. The purpose of the analogy is to show what works. Am I speaking a foreign language? Is what I'm saying so difficult to comprehend? It's one thing to say you don't agree, quite another to completely dismiss my statements, what's the matter, you don't believe in diversity?
I'll try once more with you, friend.

quote:
Originally posted by o(0)o:

I was explaining why Asian-Americans are successful, role models have nothing to do with it. Can you not see that? No Asian Johnny Cochran shows why Asian-Americans are successful, it's because of community values not role models.


Thank you for yet again reiterating your opinion about the foundation of Asian American success.

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE ASIAN AMERICANS ARE NOT WHITE, AND AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE NOT WHITE, DOES NOT MEAN THAT WHAT "WORKS" FOR ONE COMMUNITY, BY DEFINITION, WILL WORK FOR THE OTHER?

So what that you have no Johnny Cochran! So what that community values are more important to the Asian American community. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY?

Just because we share a country, and perhaps "minority" status, has absolutely no bearing on the strategies to uplift our individual communities. We may now be at the same table, but I have tried to explain to you that we have come from very different places. Those differences have everything to do with defining appropriate strategies from which to progress from here.

quote:
It's one thing to say you don't agree, quite another to completely dismiss my statements, what's the matter, you don't believe in diversity?


Friend, not only have I disagreed, I have in painful detail attempted to illustrate the source of my disagreement with you.



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
You're welcome for reiterating my opinion about the foundation of Asian-American success. Thank you for explaining to me that Asians and blacks are different. I was giving my opinion of what I think would work best for the African-American community, noah made his opinion known and I was making mine known. I don't understand why you think one way would work better than another way. It doesn't matter, it's just opinion anyway. I think the success of the Asian-American community could be translated to the African-American community, is it really that farfetched a concept? You seem to think I'm comparing apples and computers. Maybe I'm just naive or stupid in thinking that people are people. If you think there's a huge fundamental difference between Asians and blacks then I guess nothing I say can convince you otherwise. Yes I understand there are different histories but I still think there are more similarities than differences. I still think community values will be more important for the African-American community than elite educational role models. Capitalism and democracy has proven to be effective in countries separated by thousands of miles and thousands of years, countries that are completely different in every respect. Capitalism and democracy works for America as well as it works for Taiwan. Marriage is something so universal as to exist in practically every culture in the world. Do you think it's impossible for community values such as an emphasis on education could be one of those universal concepts that works for the majority? Or am I just blowing smoke out my ass? It's something that has worked for the Jews and the Asians, you honestly think it can't work for the African-Americans? Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion, I won't change your mind.

btw, you didn't disagree with me, you said "you're wrong." There's a difference. Also, I find it offensive you think I am completely incapable of understanding the African-American community just because I am not African-American. I do not assume you cannot understand shakespeare because you are not white.
btw, do you think African-Americans have less in common with Asian-Americans than they do with a bunch of jews that lived a few thousand years ago? Would I be wrong in assuming that a good number of blacks go to church on a regular basis and draw parallels from biblical stories to apply in their everyday lives? If blacks can learn from what a bunch of jewish people did a few thousand years ago, is it completely incomprehensible that they could also learn from and emulate the success of Asian-Americans and Jewish-Americans by focusing on education at the community level instead of focusing on elite role models?
quote:
If blacks can learn from what a bunch of jewish people did a few thousand years ago, is it completely incomprehensible that they could also learn from and emulate the success of Asian-Americans and Jewish-Americans by focusing on education at the community level instead of focusing on elite role models?
The problem with your pseudo-analysis is the assumption that we need to look to others as models to emulate. We don't need to be like anybody other than ourselves.

Certainly there are certain things and viewpoints that can be adopted, but the core of anything successful and effective for us will have to come from us.

This whole conversation seems to skirt around the real issue or rather doesn't go far enough in its findings. Like so many other things we resolve to make simple irresolute statements like "We Need To Value Education More" without taking into account what that entails. Also, our ideas on race/racism are divorced from the proper historical analysis and appropriate current action-plan to remedy our situation.

We talk about valuing education and how other groups do a "better" job of doing that than we do on one hand, then say "slavery disrupted/destroyed our culture" on the other.

The answer then, to me, is simple. We need to resurrect/recreate our whole entire culture in our own image and likeness after the things we value as an African people. Only by embracing and replacing our own culture (which is naturally suited to our needs, motivations, etc.) can we make suitable progress to address our problems.

No other groups opt to wholly forsake their time-honored traditions in order to assimilate into American culture... only Black people. Against the backdrop of the particular ills of this society as it relates to us, then is easy to understand how we lag behind in some areas because we don't have our own unique weapons of wisdom to contend with every assault on us as a people.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"Racism systematically verifies itself anytime the slave can only be free by imitating his master." -Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin (H. Rap Brown)
O(0)O, the majority of Asians in America immigrated here in the last 30 years. The majority of Asian in this nation where FILTERED into this nation by the INS to help fill the supply demand gap in our economy for technical expertise, this has been especially true over the last 15 years. ON a side note, the Hispanics are allowed cross the border for the same opposite reason, which is to feel the supply demand gap in this nation for cheap sources of labor.

The point being is that Asians in America have their Asian culture and background to serve as a role model and inspiration to achieve. People correctly attribute the success of the Asians in America to their culture.... which is ELITE ASIAN CULTURE. Asians in America have a much closer connection to Asia as a source of cultural inspiration, than do Africans in America.

Ask yourself the question: Why are not Asians trying to be rappers, entertainers and sports stars in America? These are certainly endeavors that are profitable, so why aren't Asians inspired to do this? The answer is likely Asians have not role models in their culture who are doing these things in a highly visible and successful manner to make the choice seem like a viable option. This is the same reason that black youth do not aspire to be in the intellectual profession more, because they do not see as many role models and images of black people doing it as they see images of success in sports, entertainment or crime for that matter...this is not rocket science folks...it is really quite elementary human behavior and learning from ones environment.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
Noah The African in America
Please, there are far too many examples of black students excelling in schools, especially today in charter schools, as well as public, for anyone to claim that enslavement of our ancestors causes black kids to be stupid. The reason we generally do poor in academics has to do with this little thing we like to call 'black culture'. Its about attitude, not our ancestors mindsets.
Poor Noah, you missing the mark by a mile. The first huge asian migration came to do the slave labor of building the railroads over a hundred years ago. And it is HARDLY the asian elite who seek better lives in america. The asian 'elite' have no reason to leave asia, why would they? That didn't even make sense noah. Haven't you even taken the time to sit down at least once or twice and talk with asians who come here and start a small shoestring grocery store or laundry mat.? They come here with NOTHING, and earn through hard work and long hours what we seem to think should just be 'given' to us. This type of disinformation regarding asians is so typical of those in our community who prefer excuses to hard work. We have a cultural problem of expecting gifts and disresepecting education. We teach ourselves to be unruly, disrespectful, and to despise all we see around us. I literally used to leave an african studies course feeling angry and depressed. What kind of mindset do we expect our children to have when all we teach and tell them is how horrible life in america is, and how evil everyone except ourselves are?? We do this to OURSELVES! We will find our place once we come to respect and understand the concept of freedom, self-reliance, and independence from 'gubment'. You rarely see asians standing around on corners with nothing to do, and you especially don't see them standing around waiting for others to do 'for' them. THATS the lesson that asians have to teach us. We need stop worrying so much about past history and get on with the business of ensuring good futures for our children. When you see a gangsta on the corner, shoot him or stab him, just make sure your children are never going to follow him. Thats the only way we gonna get where we want to go.

[This message was edited by ThePower on July 03, 2003 at 11:39 AM.]
My mom made an observation the other day saying that it's not fair to compare middle-class Blacks with middle-class Whites because you are assuming that just because they live in the same neighborhood and go to the same school, that they have the same background and the same at home environment and should therefore have the same grades.

She said that many in the Black middle-class have just arrived on the doorstep while many in the White middle-class can trace their roots to post-WWII programs beneficiaries.

Even many of the new Black middle-classes' children began their education in poorer schools and neighborhoods. And many of the children's parents are working more than the Jones next door because they are still earning their place in the upper middle-class because many of them are the first generation to enter the suburbs.

The White middle-class went through this transition decades ago and so the make-up of the White middle-class is different and older than the Black middle-class.

What she says rings true for what we see around us, but I don't know how true it is for the US overall.

It was an interesting observation nonetheless.

What are your opinions?
quote:
Originally posted by soul_doctor73:
Would handing a man with a broken leg, a crutch remedy his situation? Sure, he'll be ambulatory; but if the leg is not set, the crutch only serves to aggravate the injury.

They gave us Affirmative Action, but our legs are still broken. And they just voted to 'retain' the crutch! Oh joy.

Isaiah 1;2-3
"Hear, O heavens, and listen, O earth; for the LORD has spoken: I reared up children and brought them up, but they have rebelled agaist me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib; but Israel does not know, My people do not understand."


Or at least do Affirmative Action by economics rather then skin color:

Right now AA pits poverty / extreme poverty against the middle / upper class.

Second there would be less chance of "You only got X 'cause you're black" statements.

Either that or merit based only but that might be a bit harsh on some.

Can't think of another alternative that's practical.
quote:
Or at least do Affirmative Action by economics rather then skin color:

Right now AA pits poverty / extreme poverty against the middle / upper class.


Or better yet, do both, i.e., in addition to. To do AA solely on an economic basis, betrays AA's racial remedial intent. And, that original need has not been eliminated.

quote:
Second there would be less chance of "You only got X 'cause you're black" statements.


When are we going to stop caring what the other man is saying? Do we really believe that eliminating AA, or ceasing all discussion of race, will reduce the other man's denigration of our achievements?

quote:
Either that or merit based only but that might be a bit harsh on some.


Again, a merit-based system betrays the racial remedial intent of AA.

Are you catching a theme here? If not, let me be explicit: Affirmative Action is a remedial program developed to address the 3 centuries of De Jure discrimination we as Blacks have faced. However, it is also a program to address the continuing discrimination that we face which remains as a vestiage of slavery and jim crow.
It is a little insulting that it is believed that African Americans success is so ingrained in role models.

Honestly, everyone indepentely doing what will help them (and the community)out of the slums educationally, is more logical rather than looking for role models.

I actually posted a thread that had to do with this. It was a quote from Adam smith. And after the quote a person said that black people are always looking for a "role model" instead of doing what is in their best interest. I do not agree this is how all black people are, but it seems as though many people believe this, and it is unfortunate.


(my mouse is acting funny so it might take me a while to respond and navagate the site, for a while.Sorry if I respond slowly.)
quote:
Originally posted by ThePower:
Please, there are far too many examples of black students excelling in schools, especially today in charter schools, as well as public, for anyone to claim that enslavement of our ancestors causes black kids to be stupid. The reason we generally do poor in academics has to do with this little thing we like to call 'black culture'. Its about attitude, not our ancestors mindsets.



What is your definiton of "black culture??" Are you talking about the SUB-black culture, or mainstream black culture?

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×