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Abyss is where I hover.....
Everyone's possession...
Someone's lover..
Blind...
to the steps....
that will lead me out of this bind...
of dark and murky spacial waters....
Crying daily wanting desperately....
to be fulfilled within...
Aching painfully, dying slowly...
wanting to give in.....
there is no light...
just hope of its presence...
with each nonexistent rung I cling....
with trepidation that where I've been....
will hurl me back to the reality....

that there is no ladder to climb....
I've truly been blind...
out of my mind.....

in the abyss I stay......



Peace,
Virtue
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Your topic is endearing...Virtue!

Black men are hurting, too! Some feel the hurt more than others. Societal pressures [seen or unseen] are there nonetheless.

I'm not making excuses, 'cause I really do think that Black males need to work harder to treat the Black woman as the Queen she is...

Sisterhood is not the answer as to 'why do men hurt us' but having true, female friends around cushions the blow...I know!
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:

The one thing I've noticed about the Men I have known (family and friends included) is that they have all had an agenda for me.......But never really truly try to understand what it is that I need......


Sister Virtue what I'm reading in your testament is that your issue really has nothing to do with Black men, but with your interactions with people in general. Now you don't need to feel embaressed or ashamed about wanting to discuss this matter with us because it's helpful to have a dialogue with people about what's going on in your life.

You've recently given me advice about a matter that I shared with folks, which ultimately stressed the importance of taking some control of your relationships with others. I offer this same advice to you. Rather than waiting to meet people who will give you what you need, why not speak up and communicate your needs to others? When women enter relationships, they have a tendency to think that it is a man's responsibility to try to figure out what's important to them and to figure out what their needs are. Not only is it unfair to impose these expectations upon men, who are also boggled down with their own needs and issues, it is unhealthy. When you place in the hands of others the responsibility to bring you happiness or to save you from your problems, you will set yourself up to be disappointed every time. This is a hard lesson that I had to learn. Men are not Knights in Shining Armour. They are real people with their own set of issues and needs. Therefore, our job (both women and men) is not to find someone who will get rid of our issues, but someone with whom you can work together towards making BOTH our lives better.
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Why do men hurt us, use us, disregard us, and cast us aside?

Because that is what they are taught by other men. They are all convinced that how they are is the "right" way to be with women in relationships, in the office, at the dinner table, etc. However, very few of them are correct. Very few of them also know their own ass from a hole in the wall, but I digress. Big Grin

This is the chauvanistic world in which we live that constantly seeks to squash women as individuals and turn us into a meaningless, insignificant monolith that deserves only a passing consideration until it's time to have sex, at which point we are promptly raped, manipulated, deceived, etc. There's no getting outside of it. There's only learning how function within it. How do you defeat the dumb giant? With your wits. flowers Cool
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
This is the chauvanistic world in which we live that constantly seeks to squash women as individuals and turn us into a meaningless, insignificant monolith that deserves only a passing consideration until it's time to have sex, at which point we are promptly raped, manipulated, deceived, etc. There's no getting outside of it. There's only learning how function within it. How do you defeat the dumb giant? With your wits. flowers Cool


Sister Frenchy, you've made some valid points, but you don't see a relationship between how Sister Virtue relates to men and how she relates to people in general? Let's dig a little deeper. Sister Virtue described nearly all of her relationships with others as being parasitic, whereby she does all the giving only to receive nothing in return. It reads as if she feels used by mostly everyone in her life. That huge burden cannot be placed all upon the shoulders of men! The truth is--and it's always better to be as honest as you can when giving people advice--is that Sister Virtue needs to take at least some responsibility for allowing herself to be taken advantage of and for not protecting her own rights as a human being. Don't you think?
quote:
When women enter relationships, they have a tendency to think that it is a man's responsibility to try to figure out what's important to them and to figure out what their needs are. Not only is it unfair to impose these expectations upon men, who are also boggled down with their own needs and issues, it is unhealthy. When you place in the hands of others the responsibility to bring you happiness or to save you from your problems, you will set yourself up to be disappointed every time.

appl
quote:
No one says to me....... "What do you.....(fill in the blank)....." Because the truth is my thoughts are not that important.... except to be a fascinated thing..... like I love to dance... so Men are fascinated by this.... "Dance..... for me" they say.... not "What is it about dancing that gives you passion"..... or I love to read and analyze things..... so Men are fascinated that I have a brain and say.... "You are intelligent.... I think that with your intelligence, poise and grace we could do great things together...." see the compliment veiling the selfish intent? This is what I can do for Him..... not "You are intelligent... why do you read....(fill in the blank)? or why do you think..... such and so... about such and so....?


I know this was for the siters but....

I'm responding because I'm the kind of guy who would ask a woman like you these things. And I know there are others out there.

Sister Rowe made a good point
quote:
Rather than waiting to meet people who will give you what you need, why not speak up and communicate your needs to others?


You have to know what you want and accept nothing less.

One night I was lying with my wife - who was only a girlfriend - and I said to her "I adore you". She kinda of sat up like in suprise and asked me what I had said so I repeated my statement. She started crying and I asked what was wrong. She said that she had made up in her mind that she only wanted to be with a man that would "adore" her.

And I do Wink

My two cents
I get what you are saying.

You should really verbalize your feelings with your family and aquaintances instead of editing your feelings.

With the men in your life, have you ever asked what he'll bring to the table?

Even if what he brings to the relationship is obvious to you.

Just to see that he is actually thinking about what he can do for you too might be of comfort.

Hopefully the "parasites" are thinking about how to please you, but just suck at verbalizing. Ha.

If not, you've practically told him that you want, too. And that you expect some give with the take.
I personally think all women.....go through this, especially when youre someones wife, daughter, friend, mother.

The world takes from women.....and it can sometimes be overbearing!

Although women have been doing this forever................we sometimes need someone that we can lean on. We fail because we're literally drained, we become tired. Life is no longer exciting.....because you give, and everyone takes.

Its really hard to detect this, especially when a woman is head strong........and seems to keep everything and everyone on task, etc.

I agree.....we have to understand that those men, in our lives....... also have issues that they deal with on a regular basis. So communication is key........allow the man/men know that you are hurting...........if they love and care about you.....they will listen.
- - - - - - - - - - -
A: because we let them.
- - - - - - - - - - -

Len: So, don't be discouraged, tribulations are a part of life, which by the way are great teachers. Hang in there, the sun will shine; nothing in this life goes unbalanced.

Rowe: They [men] are real people with their own set of issues and needs. Therefore, our job (both women and men) is not to find someone who will get rid of our issues, but someone with whom you can work together towards making BOTH our lives better.

Sister Virtue needs to take at least some responsibility for allowing herself to be taken advantage of and for not protecting her own rights as a human being.

qty226: communication is key........allow the man/men know that you are hurting...........if they love and care about you.....they will listen.

Midlifeman: You have to know what you want and accept nothing less.

keylargo: some men are just plain selfish.
Focus on your needs more.
- - - - - - -

there is so much wisdom - above. Smile

I believe the old adage that you can't get what you want until you know what you want. And, virtue, I think you don't really know what you want - at this point in time. Let's face it, we change, what we need and what we want changes too... people around us change.

Other than a sweet, loyal, loving man... what else do you want - of him and yourself, of life?

Once you truly know those answers, then you can begin to work out how to get what you want, and what you are prepared to sacrifice (on a healthy level) and what it takes of you to achieve it. If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Sappy goop it may be to some, but the journey stuff is true. Even if we meet the perfect man and get the perfect job, life doesn't end there... "we never arrive and unpack" ... the journey is constant - we evolve.
I wish you love and luck in your journey virtue.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
I love men...but.....you know....sometimes I get weary....and I hurt too.....


Sister Virtue, at one time, I remember reading you singing the praises about the integrity, honor, and responsibility of men representing the Nation of Islam. Why haven't you pursued any relationships with men associated with this organization? And if you have, were your experiences unfavorable?
Oh, ok, well, I just thought that by dating these pool of brothers that you'd have more success with finding someone with whom you have more things in common. And I apologize if by asking this question I conjured up any more hurt, I honestly did not know about your marital status. I don't read as many posts as I would like enough to know everyone's background. Sorry again. Frown
Rowe.... no, sister....My apologies....

sincerely.....

I have much to get through emotionally..... and I have to reign it in when I end up channeling my pain to someone unintended.....




quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Oh, ok, well, I just thought that by dating these pool of brothers that you'd have more success with finding someone with whom you have more things in common.


Yes.... That's a good point..... but....

we do not date... in the Nation.... we court..... meaning.... brothers don't ask for sisters unless they wish to marry them.... usually by the time a brother asks for you..... you have pretty much established a working relationship together ...... so "dating" especially more than one brother rarely if ever happens.....


two-- My issue is extremely varied and complex..... I apologize for spilling so much of it here on the board.... but honestly.... I have no where else to place the amount of pain I'm going through..... and I don't always want to whine to same people or end up crying to people I know won't receive me well.....

sometimes I'm just lost in pain.... and confusion.... right at the moment..... and I know in my heart of hearts its important for me to release all of the energy... for my health's sake...... So I write it out.....



quote:
And I apologize if by asking this question I conjured up any more hurt,
Really Rowe.... there is no need for you to apologize... in all sincerity, my sister..... at this stage you could of asked me why is the sky blue and if you were here I would burst into uncontrollable tears..... its not you... its me.... my trial.... my cross to bear.......
quote:
I honestly did not know about your marital status.
I'm sorry I thought you did...... for some reason I don't know..... it was spoken of briefly..... and its not your job to know everything I write or reveal....
quote:
I don't read as many posts as I would like enough to know everyone's background. Sorry again. Frown
I don't expect this of you or anyone.....

Dear Sister.....

I wasn't even really asking for advice......


I was just venting.....

My situation is complex..... and the problems are all solved....

My post was a cry......


Truth be told...... I solve most of my problems on my own....

but after the problems are solved..... life must go on...


Sister Rowe....

please accept my apologies.....

Peace,
Virtue
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