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Were they able to commit to uneducated sistas? Your level of education usually doesn't make you that much more attractive, except to peeps trying to use you as a stepping stone to their dreams, for the most part. Educated sistas are a rarity for a brother like me, but educated or not educated, you have to bring something to the table besides a bunch of letters behind your name. Period. Educated women are good business partners, but most won't make good wives because that part of their make-up as women has usually been sacrificed, in order for them be become educated. A lot of them cannot cook and do not know how to keep a man happy beyond paying his bills. Not all are like that, but a lot are. Plus, you have the educated ones who refuse to date under their social sphere in certain situations, which further isolates them. In my heart, I believe a lot of them listen to the news, to their peers, to their friends, and become scared of hooking up with any men on a meaningful level and choose instead to concentrate all their energies on a career, which can't hurt them, leave them, or beat them.
I think this thread frustrates so many women because, imagined or not, we perceive it as some sort "success penalty". I'll paraphrase something I once read (sorry I don't know the source to attribute it to). At its core it was, "[Successful black women] have spent the last however long making ourselves into the (wo)man we'd want as a partner." By that, I don't mean we've intentionally cast aside our feminine traits (quite the reverse, in fact) -- we've been reading, becoming conversant on a broad range of topics, being loyal friends, committed partners and in general striving to be the best "us" we can be -- with educations and careers we're proud of. All to find out in the end that the very things we're most proud of may be the things that men value least? So, please help me understand which SPECIFIC qualities men seek (aside from the aforementioned "knowing how to cook" and being sexually demonstrative) that will prove to him that a woman is "feminine" and worthy of building a life with?

I'm not speaking from a position of bitterness, just curiosity.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HonestBrother:
OK. Here's one single black man who is ready to commit to an educated sistah who is ready to commit to me Razz
---

HonestBrother: One would believe from this string that a man couldn't swing a dead cat without finding an educated sistah if he were truly looking for one.

(Disclaimer1: The harming of animals, neither actual nor proverbial, is implied or condoned in this statement. Disclaimer2: The striking or threatening of educated sistahs with said dead feline would obviously be condemned in the strongest possible terms.)

Forgive me. I've gotta cut back on the scotch. (kidding)
quote:
Originally posted by Toria:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HonestBrother:
OK. Here's one single black man who is ready to commit to an educated sistah who is ready to commit to me Razz
---

HonestBrother: One would believe from this string that a man couldn't swing a dead cat without finding an educated sistah if he were truly looking for one.

(Disclaimer1: The harming of animals, neither actual nor proverbial, is implied or condoned in this statement. Disclaimer2: The striking or threatening of educated sistahs with said dead feline would obviously be condemned in the strongest possible terms.)

Forgive me. I've gotta cut back on the scotch. (kidding)


Toria, I love a woman who can handle her scotch Smile (just kidding)

I live in the Bible Belt... The educated sistahs near me are a bit too much into that church stuff for my taste...
"Why can't single Black men commit to a real relationship with educated sistas?"

Here's some of the reasons I have heard:

Because it is a common observation and/or percieved notion that educated sistas tend to have a tendency to want to dominate the relationship. As my dad told me once, marrying an educated woman, particularly African or African American females will likely lead to divorce down the line and/or abandonment later in life with the wife throwing the husband into a nursing home if there is any disability. He continued by saying that dating/marrying a less educated lady will prevent or at least reduce the likelihood of abandonment or divorce.
Other concerns include a (percieved) lack of showing respect for and to guys (especially of less education) by educated sistas.
These statements have been expressed by a variety of guys both AA and Africans as well as my dad. As with most stereotypes, there are some elements of truth to the above....but stated before..I strongly prefer educated AA sistas as I have dated sistas with less education only to be disappointing to the lady in question as I was too "uppidity" and bookish and the going-to-Nigeria looking for a countryside sista is not good either as I am "too Amercian" for Nigerian sistas.
So the takeaway is that some men think that the more accomplished and/or educated a woman is, the better the likelihood that she'll leave him or (perhaps worse) stay with him and be domineering? Fair enough. Who knows? There may be some truth to that.

I just hope I'm strong enough to advise my god-daughters to pursue their dreams but to stop just short of "pricing themselves out of the market".

Maybe, in some way I'm too mentally challenged to see right now, that's not as tragic as it sounds.

Thanks for your input.
A guy here. I think men can, and do commit to educated sistas, but their interaction has to change.
Black man, gotta continue to grow and develop yourself.
Black woman, gotta be more humble.
The reason I say this is because, I come from a 2 parent home. Both are PhD's but it wasn't always that way. My father was my mother's professor in graduate school (it was ok in those days). After being married for 2 years they started having kids. I'm #2. But as we grew older, my mother decided to go back to school to get here PhD.

When my father shared this info with his (upper-middle class) friends, they warned him "as soon as she gets that PhD, she's going to become the self-appointed leader of the house"

On the other side, my mothers church-going sistas warned her: "There are a lot of pretty girls on his job, are you sure about spending more time apart?"

Guess what happened? As soon as my mother got here PhD, she announced that she was hypenating her name?

My father's friend told him: "See, this is how it starts."

A lot of other things followed...but the main point is my father played it cool, reminded my mother how much he loves here and the family.

Ever since then, he is much more humble about his own accomplishments and more supportive of her goals...

Still married..35 years.

So back to my point, i think if single black men are with educated sistas. The sistas gotta be more humble, like MY FATHER.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss/pto-20040107-000008.html

The New Trophy Wife

By: Deborah Siegel

Summary: Alpha women are highly sought-after partners, but men may be more intimidated than they admit.

Pete Beeman, a 36-year-old sculptor, met Page Fortna, 34, on New Year's Eve in 1997, while she was studying for a doctorate in political science. "I was totally impressed that she was getting a Ph.D.," recalls Beeman. "She has a powerhouse background that speaks of personal drive and dedication. It was attractive, not in a sexual way, but in a necessary way. I'm not interested in someone who doesn't have as much to offer me as I have to offer her."

Massimo Tassan-Solet met Karin Dauch at an Internet merger party in 2000. She introduced herself to the derivatives trader, now 36, by announcing, "Hi, I'm Karin, and I have to go now." "She was strong and unconventional in her approach, but she did it with humor," recalls Tassan-Solet of Dauch, who at age 29 owned doubleKappa, a Web design and branding company. "I don't look at people as a list of what they've done," says Tassan-Solet. "But what she's done is remarkable."

Beeman and Tassan-Solet aren't the only newlyweds who are proud of their wives' CVs. New trends in the mating game"”marrying someone like yourself"”plus an unstable economy breathe new life into the term "peer marriage." In previous generations, successful doctors, lawyers and bankers sought wives who looked good, were well-bred and made a mean Stroganoff to boot. Now, more and more alpha males are looking for something else from the A-list: accomplishment.

According to a Match.com poll, 48 percent of men (and an equal percentage of women) reported dating partners who drew the same income as they did. Twenty percent of men reported dating women who earned more. Jim Pak, 34, was introduced to Kristin Ketner, 38, a Harvard MBA and a hedge fund manager, through a mutual friend, who warned him not to be intimidated by her credentials. She was a research analyst for Goldman Sachs; he was unemployed and playing a lot of golf. "In certain regards, she outshines me," says Pak of his wife. "She's more accomplished academically. People may be more impressed with her than with me." (Pak is now chief financial officer at an electronic stock trading services group.)

Men's attraction to professionally achieving mates is one piece of a much larger story. "We're experiencing a historic change in the things people want out of marriage, the reasons they enter into it and stay in it," says historian Stephanie Coontz of Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington. Men in their 20s and 30s embarking on first marriages are relieved to no longer be the sole breadwinner and decision-maker, a burden many watched their fathers shoulder. "These men are truly redefining masculinity," says Terrence Real, a psychologist and author of How Can I Get Through to You? Closing the Intimacy Gap Between Men and Women. And the pursuit of a high-achiever is not solely the province of youth. Status-conscious tycoons want to have second marriages"”and affairs"”with alpha women. "Older men want the most impressive achiever in the office. In the eyes of a man's peers, the woman with the career and degrees counts for more than Miss America," says Frank Pittman, psychiatrist to Atlanta's elite. "Status is attached to a woman who is successful, not to a woman with a perfectly pear-shaped ass."

Common wisdom holds that men are socially programmed and biologically compelled to select women based on beauty and youth, physical traits that signal reproductive health. But many men date "across" and, increasingly, "up" the axes of education and achievement, with less regard for age, or for the notorious "arm candy" factor.

"There's a higher degree of parity between marital partners," observes Pak. "Men want a wife who reflect well in every aspect." In some circles, more eyebrows are raised when a guy marries a woman who doesn't match him in education or professional status. Says David, a single 33-year-old assistant professor at a prestigious university who routinely filters online dating ads using the criterion of education: "If I were with someone who wasn't of comparable intelligence, energy and drive, there'd be those who thought I'd wimped out and chosen a relationship where I could call the shots and be the all-powerful center."

"Showing up with a stacked bubblehead is like conspicuous consumption," agrees Real. "It's embarrassing to flag yourself as not interested in a real relationship." But is a woman's success sexy?

"Absolutely," says David. "And the absence of an attempt to do something interesting or difficult is a turnoff." Henry Kissinger may have been right: Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
Rise of the Power Bride

When Scott South, a sociologist at the University at Albany, State University of New York, examined the characteristics most desirable to black and white men ages 19 to 35, he found that a woman's ability to hold a steady job mattered more than her age, previous marriages, maternal status, religion or race. Men were more willing to marry women with more, rather than less, education than they themselves had. A wise move, since women eclipse men at the same rates at which they attain bachelor's and master's degrees, and the number of women pursuing higher education continues to steadily climb.

Many of today's grooms believe that through positive or negative example, their own moms set the stage for a high-octane wife. After his parents separated when he was 12, Jim Pak watched his mother raise three kids while pursuing an advanced degree in art history. "That kind of role model helps you not be intimidated by highly motivated, successful women," he says. Others view their mothers' lives as cautionary tales. "My mom was very unhappy that she had little energy for anything other than raising her four kids," says a former newlywed groom who married a woman who works in finance. "I wouldn't want to marry someone who felt that unfulfilled."

"Our generation is highly cognizant of the divorce rate," adds Pak. "We learned from our parents' mistakes."

But it's not always easy. Charting a marital course markedly different from that of one's parents means there's no role model to consult. And alpha woman expects more of a domestic partnership"”and an emotional connection"”than her husband may have seen growing up. "Women are demanding more emotionally because logistically they don't have to get married," says Real. "They want guys to be articulate and open about their feelings." The trouble, finds Real, is that "most men are not trained to do those things."

A solution to this impasse, says Barry McCarthy, a psychologist in Washington, D.C., who works with many high-achieving couples, is for spouses to communicate their expectations from the get-go: "It's great that men are no longer the success object and women are no longer the sex object. But when people organize their lives differently from their cultures or families of origin, they have to make it work practically and emotionally. You have to negotiate before [marriage] how you're going to deal with the core issues of sex, money and kids."

continued....
quote:
Originally posted by hobo:
A guy here. I think men can, and do commit to educated sistas, but their interaction has to change.
Black man, gotta continue to grow and develop yourself.
Black woman, gotta be more humble.
The reason I say this is because, I come from a 2 parent home. Both are PhD's but it wasn't always that way. My father was my mother's professor in graduate school (it was ok in those days). After being married for 2 years they started having kids. I'm #2. But as we grew older, my mother decided to go back to school to get here PhD.

When my father shared this info with his (upper-middle class) friends, they warned him "as soon as she gets that PhD, she's going to become the self-appointed leader of the house"

On the other side, my mothers church-going sistas warned her: "There are a lot of pretty girls on his job, are you sure about spending more time apart?"

Guess what happened? As soon as my mother got here PhD, she announced that she was hypenating her name?

My father's friend told him: "See, this is how it starts."

A lot of other things followed...but the main point is my father played it cool, reminded my mother how much he loves here and the family.

Ever since then, he is much more humble about his own accomplishments and more supportive of her goals...

Still married..35 years.

So back to my point, i think if single black men are with educated sistas. The sistas gotta be more humble, like MY FATHER.

yeah I think you are dead on, thanks for sharing the relationship between your parents. There are black men out here that are more than willing to commit to educated sistas.
I'm sure all of us women know dark/light, tall/short, beautiful/plain, blah/blah men with great resumes who we aren't looking to commit to ourselves.

Why can't it be the same for the guys?

If a graduate degree, great career, discretionary income, and no kids aren't required for the perfect wife, why would those things make someone a target for all men?

If a classifed ad just listed those qualities, I'm not sure how many of anyone would reply.

And if many did, I'd be tempted to call most of them superficial golddiggers or pathetics ISO a sugardaddy/mama.

Those qualities alone shouldn't make anyone excited.

It's probably best that they aren't running over.

I could understand the question if it were why did my friends have a lot of men who wanted to be in a committed relationship with them when they were hs educated Macy's sales associates, but men won't commit any more now that all that has changed is that they have graduate degrees and run Macy's?

Is something similar the case, or were they having commitment trouble before yet expect men to start drooling because they now have a solid resume?
If women are concerned about getting older and not having mates and childern, then they should go after what they want. Most women are reluctant about approaching men they are interested in because of the socialization that says that women shouldn;t make the 1st move. But sitting around waiting for someone to approach you is not going to get you the man you want. So may be a change in strategy will help. If you have the motivation to become educated and get all those degrees then you should certainly have the motivation to approach men that you like.
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Wow--once again, a woman posts a narrow perception of why black men seem to be avoiding or misusing sisters, and she is met with a myriad of objective, well-meaning responses. When I made a discussion stating that I was a brother of a "certain caliber," I was told that I would be perceived as being arrogant and conceited.

Here I am reading a discussion, written by a woman, referring to herself and certain sisters in general as "prime wife material," and she is met with objective, supportive, sympathetic comments.

As Kresge has already stated, I, too, do not fit the narrow criteria, Nikcara, for which you have listed as to the reasons why us brothers aren't marrying sisters. I doubt many of the brothers on this site also don't fit your criteria.

I'm just going to speak strictly from personal experience--it has been my experience that many of these sisters (doctors, lawyers, CPA's, etc.)are simply inaccessible primarily because they run in such tight knit social circles.

Many of these sisters will work all day, barely say hello or make eye contact with possible mates, run straight home, turn on Oprah, call up a girlfriend on the phone and say, "Girl, there ain't no good men out there!"

Some of these sisters won't openly admit this but some of them walk around pre-judging brothers by sight alone, "He walks/dresses/smiles/talks just like my ex used to--I don't want him." Some sisters won't give brothers a chance--I've experience first dates where sisters will interview me like I'm applying for a CEO position of a major corporation.

I could answer 19 out of 20 questions correctly--if she doesn't approve of one particular answer, not only will she have the arrogance to explain, in a whimsicle way of course, why I wouldn't be a suitable match for her, she will also do the "don't call me, I'll call you" routine.

Many sisters put up proverbial road blocks, pits, walls, thorn vines, trees, rings of fire, and anything else that they can throw in the way (tire spikes) because they think this is how they can tell if a brother is worthy of their time.

Now, don't take this the wrong way--don't think I'm some kind of loser that couldn't get a woman if I paid for one--I'm just merely stating some of my bad first date experiences among what I consider to be many successful dates. The point is, too many of these sisters have unrealistic expectations, pre-judge or exclude a certain demographic of brothers altogether because too many of them simply don't sit down and figure out what kind of man they need and want in their lives.

Too many sisters listen to their girlfriends--too many sisters watch too much television--too many sisters read too many entertainment magazines. Too many sisters think that it's up to the brothers to make first contact, and initiate romance--compounded by the fact that some of them may have had a few bad experiences with some brothers in their past, and what you end up with is a bitter, disalusioned, jaded, unrealistic, unapproachable sister.

What I have mentioned above doesn't necessarily mean that these kinds of sisters are actually mean--it just means that they have closed themselves off due to bad experiences or haven't developed their social skills in order to better interact with members of the opposite sex.


Ironhorse: I completely and totally agree with you on these points. I found myself doing some of this. Specifically, working all day, going straight home, cooking, turning on Andy Griffith and getting on the phone with my girlfriend talking about how lonely I was...LOL Ok??? Seeing the same people every day, driving the same route, even going to the same grocery store if I needed to stop and wondering why I never meet any good men..... Then, when I met men through non-traditional approach, I would do the 20 question thing and rule him out saying that we weren't going to work because he wasn't open to certain things or he was open to too many things in some cases! LOL

But how do you stop this cycle? My daily routine is mandatory for many reasons and I do want to find out right away if the brother is worth my time..... sck
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Nikcara,
quote:
It is statements like yours that make me thank God everyday for my dad, he was the main person pushing me to go to law school. I guess he knew that the brothas like you out numbered the strong Black men like him 10 to 1 so he wanted me to be able to thrive and not just survive


I'll entertain your suggestion that I'm weak-willed, weak-minded, and ill-advised about feminine contributions to a relationship. I'll also entertain the implication that I'm in desperate need of a weak sista who can't think for herself.

Holding those attributes that you've appointed to me constant, one can conclude that no real woman, (in her right mind), would ever consider subjecting herself to such a chauvinist.

But see, sista Nikcara, your problem is not with me or men like me. Your problem is with the many women who choose a different route in life. Your problem is with women don't have as hard a time as you do considering their choices and investing themselves full-heartedly into either of the trade-offs.

New Title: Why can't more black women immerse themselves into their career and education like me?

When will black women stop letting these black men force them to stay at home and take care of the house?

I myself love and appreciate all the Condoleza Rice's out their (highly educated). But even moreso I love a Maya Angelou (conscious). You put those two gifted women in the same room with a man, and the conscious woman will always grab the man's soul. A conscious woman can read a man like a book. A highly educated woman would have a hard time figuring out 'what' he likes, while the conscious woman can detail 'why'. A conscious woman is Peace, Love, and Understanding. A highly educated woman is "Let's make a deal", an arrangement, a pre-nuptual (did I spell that right?) agreement.


lol I'm not mad at you, H. My reason for being so ok with your comments is because I am BOTH of the types of women that we are discussing here. Its very interesting to see how we have drawn the line and formed opinions on either type. I'm so sure that there are women like myself who are BOTH and are sitting around talking about how she can't get a man. I know my issues now that I have taken time to reflect on my past failed relationships. I kid you not when I say that in the last 3 weeks, I have become content and happy with being single. Not because I have given up on the dream of loving again. But because I know who I am now and I know what I want and I know that HE is rare......
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
quote:
Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Wow--once again, a woman posts a narrow perception of why black men seem to be avoiding or misusing sisters, and she is met with a myriad of objective, well-meaning responses. When I made a discussion stating that I was a brother of a "certain caliber," I was told that I would be perceived as being arrogant and conceited.

Here I am reading a discussion, written by a woman, referring to herself and certain sisters in general as "prime wife material," and she is met with objective, supportive, sympathetic comments.

As Kresge has already stated, I, too, do not fit the narrow criteria, Nikcara, for which you have listed as to the reasons why us brothers aren't marrying sisters. I doubt many of the brothers on this site also don't fit your criteria.

I'm just going to speak strictly from personal experience--it has been my experience that many of these sisters (doctors, lawyers, CPA's, etc.)are simply inaccessible primarily because they run in such tight knit social circles.

Many of these sisters will work all day, barely say hello or make eye contact with possible mates, run straight home, turn on Oprah, call up a girlfriend on the phone and say, "Girl, there ain't no good men out there!"

Some of these sisters won't openly admit this but some of them walk around pre-judging brothers by sight alone, "He walks/dresses/smiles/talks just like my ex used to--I don't want him." Some sisters won't give brothers a chance--I've experience first dates where sisters will interview me like I'm applying for a CEO position of a major corporation.

I could answer 19 out of 20 questions correctly--if she doesn't approve of one particular answer, not only will she have the arrogance to explain, in a whimsicle way of course, why I wouldn't be a suitable match for her, she will also do the "don't call me, I'll call you" routine.

Many sisters put up proverbial road blocks, pits, walls, thorn vines, trees, rings of fire, and anything else that they can throw in the way (tire spikes) because they think this is how they can tell if a brother is worthy of their time.

Now, don't take this the wrong way--don't think I'm some kind of loser that couldn't get a woman if I paid for one--I'm just merely stating some of my bad first date experiences among what I consider to be many successful dates. The point is, too many of these sisters have unrealistic expectations, pre-judge or exclude a certain demographic of brothers altogether because too many of them simply don't sit down and figure out what kind of man they need and want in their lives.

Too many sisters listen to their girlfriends--too many sisters watch too much television--too many sisters read too many entertainment magazines. Too many sisters think that it's up to the brothers to make first contact, and initiate romance--compounded by the fact that some of them may have had a few bad experiences with some brothers in their past, and what you end up with is a bitter, disalusioned, jaded, unrealistic, unapproachable sister.

What I have mentioned above doesn't necessarily mean that these kinds of sisters are actually mean--it just means that they have closed themselves off due to bad experiences or haven't developed their social skills in order to better interact with members of the opposite sex.


Ironhorse: I completely and totally agree with you on these points. I found myself doing some of this. Specifically, working all day, going straight home, cooking, turning on Andy Griffith and getting on the phone with my girlfriend talking about how lonely I was...LOL Ok??? Seeing the same people every day, driving the same route, even going to the same grocery store if I needed to stop and wondering why I never meet any good men..... Then, when I met men through non-traditional approach, I would do the 20 question thing and rule him out saying that we weren't going to work because he wasn't open to certain things or he was open to too many things in some cases! LOL

But how do you stop this cycle? My daily routine is mandatory for many reasons and I do want to find out right away if the brother is worth my time..... sck



thanks

Finally! A sista who will admit it! .... lol
1. God didn't create you to be educated - so, it's not necessary and it just gives you more ammo to fight with. We don't NEED you to have a masters degree, we need you to be our wives.

Save all that other stuff for your girlfriends, men weren't built to have so-called educated wives. The only education we need you to have is what your mamma taught you. Don't get me wrong, ALL of my women have degrees (I don't), some have multiple degrees - I guess they're attracted to my intellect.

But, they become competitive, trying to show me how much they know. My dog might as well get a degree - I could care less. That's not what he's for - so, he can save all that for his dogpals. I just need him to bark, bite and protect - not ear-f*cking me with all his vast knowledge.

Now, I DO understand that men aren't supporting women - for NUMEROUS reasons - so, you gotta get an education to survive. More power to you.

But, we don't need all that - f*ck me, feed me, make me laugh, don't fight with my other women...
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Get done with me?


Sweetheart, there's nothing a female can do to me except, be a bitch - and, that makes HER look bad.

Beyond that, you're not one of my women and therefore, not on my radar and are of no consequence. Just a vagina with an attitude...



I think you called the wrong person a bitch....

Ever look in the mirror???

Youre leaving yourself wide open.......and your disrespect will not be tolerated.
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Beyond that, you're not one of my women and therefore, not on my radar and are of no consequence. Just a vagina with an attitude...


And that pretty much sums up how you view women in general, doesn't it (a vagina with an attitude)??? Come on man, you cannot be serious. Plan to be a lonely man for a looooooong time if you are. This is hilarious.
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
But how do you stop this cycle? My daily routine is mandatory for many reasons and I do want to find out right away if the brother is worth my time..... sck


TOAOM ...

Perhaps you should try adding a checkmark for "Potential" to your list! Smile Just because a man you meet isn't Mr.-Right-Now, doesn't mean that he can't/won't grow and learn to be one day!

If the brotha can get even 15 of the 20 questions right, he's doing better than most!! Eek So, when you're checking the report card, see if maybe those other 5 aren't at least partly negotiable ... or if there's room for him to grow into them!

Doing the perfect-at-first-sight thing is a near impossibility. But, it could be that he doesn't like this or that because he's never really tried it ... or he may learn to like that and this because you like it, and he's willing to make you happy! Smile

And not only that, but it gives you both a little more time to check each other out ... and what's the harm in a second or third date? You don't have to nip it in the bud after the first! (More good food and a couple extra good movies for you! Wink)

I have found that when I approach men not looking for what I want them to have or be about, but instead, look at who they are already and what they are about, I get a better view/gauge of the real him ... not my perfect version of them ... which probably doesn't exist anyway!
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Get done with me?


Sweetheart, there's nothing a female can do to me except, be a bitch - and, that makes HER look bad.

Beyond that, you're not one of my women and therefore, not on my radar and are of no consequence. Just a vagina with an attitude...


And you have the audacity to criticize hip hhop rappers and their lyrics. You don't sound much different.


What happened to all that 'balance' in spirituality and revolutionary talk you were spewing on other threads.

African revolutionaries RESPECT women(even if they aren't in a relationship with them), are against gender oppression and discrimination, and would NEVER use the term bitch.

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