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**And to think we have blacks (a small percentage) who think long these lines and affiliate themselves with Bush.....there is not a logical reason for a black person to do so.

NEW MEMOS PROVIDE FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT CHIEF JUSTICE NOMINEE JOHN ROBERTS IS NO FRIEND OF AFRICAN AMERICANS

The late Chief Justice William Rehnquist had a long record of supporting segregation of black people. In his years as a law clerk at the Supreme Court, Rehnquist advocated, in a brief for a case leading up to Brown v. Board of Education, that the 1896 decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, which established the separate but equal doctrine, be reaffirmed. A year later Rehnquist wrote in another memo, "It is about time the Court faced the fact that the white people of the South don't like the colored people."
Now President Bush has nominated Judge John Roberts to serve as Chief Justice of the United States. Recently released documents reveal that Roberts may hold views very similar to Rehnquist's. In 1982 Roberts urged Attorney General William French Smith to push for legislation permanently barring the use of racial preferences to redress past employment discrimination. He also told Smith it "makes eminent sense" to call for legislation to ban school busing for the purposes of racial integration.

The Roberts nomination to fill the Rehnquist seat will not change the political dynamic of the Supreme Court as one strong conservative will replace another. As was the case previously, the major battle to save affirmative action in higher education will rest on who is now nominated to fill the seat of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
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more for the blkCON's to explain:

THE DANGER OF ELIMINATING RACE AS A FACTOR IN THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS

Boston Latin High School is the most prestigious and selective of the public high schools in Boston. Founded in 1635 Boston Latin lists John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, and Ralph Waldo Emerson among its alumni.
Six years ago a federal judge ruled that Boston Latin could not use race as a factor in its admissions policies. Since that time black enrollments at Boston Latin have plummeted 42 percent from 435 to 250 students. Hispanic enrollments have dropped 32 percent in the same period.

Whites are 14 percent of all students in the Boston public schools. But they are nearly 54 percent of the student body at Boston Latin.

Clearly this huge drop in black enrollments at Boston Latin will do serious damage to the prospects of African-American students from Boston's public schools to gain an education necessary for them to compete and be admitted to our nation's most selective colleges and universities.
OXFORD UNIVERSITY CONCEDES THAT IT NEEDS TO DO MORE TO INCREASE THE RACIAL DIVERSITY OF ITS FACULTY AND ADMINISTRATION

A study by equal opportunity officers at Oxford University in England has concluded that the university needs to do more to recruit qualified black and minority scholars for teaching and administrative positions. The report calls for "positive action" to encourage more blacks to apply for such positions.
In making the report the university noted that it did not know the ethnic makeup of its faculty or administration. In an effort to gauge progress, in the future all employees will be asked to state their ethnic group or to state that they do not want to disclose this information.
TEXAS A&M LOOKS TO TURN A NEW LEAF

Blacks are only 2.3 percent of the nearly 36,000 undergraduate students at Texas A&M University in College Station. The university, which did not admit black students until 1963, continues to have a reputation as not being a hospitable place for blacks.
Even after the Hopwood decision was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Grutter case, Texas A&M has declined to consider race in its admissions decisions. But the university declares that it is making an effort to increase black enrollments. More than $8 million has been allocated for scholarship programs targeted toward low-income students. The university has opened recruiting centers in predominantly black neighborhoods in major Texas cities. Its Very Important Prospects (VIP) program picks up prospective black students in SUVs across the state of Texas and drives them to College Station for recruiting sessions.

One black freshman on campus this year told the Houston Chronicle that a friend asked him, "Why go to school where the white folks go?" He responded, "Because they let me in and they paid me to go to school."
quote:
So, are you saying 4 decades have not brought about this goal of 'access to better facilities' yet?
Your original question was:
What were the goals, or intentions, of instituting these things in society?

Kevin answered just that. That's clear to see. And take that "So are you saying..." BS back to WHITE STREET or wherever you get that lame ass rhetoric.

Where were the "racial quotas"? I know I've hardly seen the MLK type of quotas enacted. What "quotas" are you talking about?

And I've already had to correct CF on that Busing BS. Please don't make the same dumb assumptive mistake.
quote:
Originally posted by JanesT:
Not much of an answer. You had seemed so passionate on the issue.

So, are you saying 4 decades have not brought about this goal of 'access to better facilities' yet?



yep..that is my answer....be glad I had something to say to your azz...and no the goal is partially fulfilled but no where near being met in a satisfactory answer....sorry to burst your bubble and not list sitting with white folks as my perception of what the goal of the black struggle was...it is not about social issues...many of us could give a fuck less about laying up with white people.....just like many of ya'll could give a f-k less about interracial relationships also...
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
more for the blkCON's to explain:

THE DANGER OF ELIMINATING RACE AS A FACTOR IN THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS

Boston Latin High School is the most prestigious and selective of the public high schools in Boston. Founded in 1635 Boston Latin lists John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, and Ralph Waldo Emerson among its alumni.
Six years ago a federal judge ruled that Boston Latin could not use race as a factor in its admissions policies. Since that time black enrollments at Boston Latin have plummeted 42 percent from 435 to 250 students. Hispanic enrollments have dropped 32 percent in the same period.

Whites are 14 percent of all students in the Boston public schools. But they are nearly 54 percent of the student body at Boston Latin.

Clearly this huge drop in black enrollments at Boston Latin will do serious damage to the prospects of African-American students from Boston's public schools to gain an education necessary for them to compete and be admitted to our nation's most selective colleges and universities.


Kevin41-
I understand why you included this since you & CF battle about AA programs. I'm confused by the conclusion here though. Are you suggesting that Boston Latin is the only school in the Boston public system that can provide Blacks with a quality education or credentials worthy of college admission? Considering that this high school can't teach all the Black students in Boston - wouldn't it be useful to cull what is so successful at this school & begin to implement it at others?
quote:
Considering that this high school can't teach all the Black students in Boston - wouldn't it be useful to cull what is so successful at this school & begin to implement it at others?

Sometimes, the point being made (and the thread topic itself in many instances) is lost in the battle to belittle, berate, and be right.
And, DD... who really has missed that point?

What I'm asking, as I have posed to CF, what have Black CONservatives (or those who make it a point to make the point you're making) done in that regard?

When we look over that landscape, by and large, it's the "liberals" or radicals who have taken up that mantle and actually built schools trying to implement at least something different, if not the best models they are aware of.

So, really, your critique, though important, hardly seems warranted. The "battle" or debate here is along the lines drawn around AA. The discussion has hardly been about the whole range of things useful or instructive towards the ultimate... So to basically assume, as you have, that replicating effective models has been overlooked is a idea that's unfounded and hardly within the scope of what's been discussed. That is, you're interjecting something that's really not part of the conversation. The title of the thread is?

Now, your point and the way you expressed it would be justified if this thread-discussion was about what amounts to quality education and what things have to be done to pursue and secure it for most or all.

Funny how Kevin's opinion on vouchers, e.g., would strike againt this idea that one good school(s) or such quality education scheme/regime would or could teach the most or all...
Before the distractions, the ultimate question kevin is if we have not attained those goals thru 4 entire decades, or 3 generations, why on earth would you cling so strongly to something that obviously is not doing the trick? Is there a lack of better ideas from the community?

Reminds me of the public schools issue. You got these big powerful unions, and victimized public school parents, who keep telling us we must pour yet more money into these schools, that the public system must be saved at all costs, yet it seems to be failing our youth bigtime, rather than getting better, and I keep asking, what on earth are you holding onto failure for?

-
quote:
Why on earth would you cling so strongly to something that obviously is not doing the trick?
Doing what "trick"?

The problem is you weak ant-aa people try to act like aa was proposed or is proposed as a cure-all. You can't sustain an argument without that false premise.

Now, at no point have you or CF presented an alternative, much less a functional or more beneficial one. Just inane rhetoric about how little AA does. Ummm... the way you have expressed your ideas saying that does not denigrate AA it denigrates your lack of better ideas which have not been forthcoming. You're the one with a problem with it. It's incumbent on you to present alternatives and not just rhetoric stating why you are against AA.

Oh and that "trick" thing... that goes back to what I asked you before which goes to the heart of your ideas here:
What were the goals, or intentions, of instituting these things in society?

You know you don't have question asking privileges around here. That is, until you answer some questions. Now it's your turn. Step up.
When it came time to put their votes on the side of justice these White Conservative judges voted against justice for the Black man. They instead chose to maintain the status quo and keep the food of the White man on the Black man's neck.

White nationalists are a threat to Black people and our interests in America. I applaud all of the groups of conscious who stand against John Roberts ever reaching the court.

He is nothing more than an expression of the contempt that Bush and other racists have against Black people via their policies.

Bush and the White power is attempting to take over all 3 branches of government. Their ascendency to the court only spells trouble for Black people who challenge them and refuse to join in to the death march for Black people that the unconscious Black Conservatives work for every day they are alive. These Black Conservatives are people inside the club who don't want to lose their position by being too loud and want to make sure that other Blacks don't get in to ruin the exclusivity of the club to where they are no longer the "lawn jockey" for show.
quote:
Originally posted by JanesT:
Before the distractions, the ultimate question kevin is if we have not attained those goals thru 4 entire decades, or 3 generations, why on earth would you cling so strongly to something that obviously is not doing the trick? Is there a lack of better ideas from the community?

Reminds me of the public schools issue. You got these big powerful unions, and victimized public school parents, who keep telling us we must pour yet more money into these schools, that the public system must be saved at all costs, yet it seems to be failing our youth bigtime, rather than getting better, and I keep asking, what on earth are you holding onto failure for?

-


*people still use gasoline in cars because it beats getting on the freeway and walking doesn't it....my thing is....who in the fuck determined that AA as a corrective measure from past racist azz actions has served its purpose? Who determined that black people had attained full equality? And since I am not the one working to dismantle something that worked effectively for 30+ years, why don't you ask those who work to do so why they did not come up with a better alternative themselves? They were the ones so damn dissatisfied with AA. The cold part is...is that racists and uncletom house negroes are pussy motherfuckers......because they knew what the results of an AA repeal would be...lowered black college enrollment and professional inclusion...and that was the intent the right and the blkCON lackey had in mind...it is an extension of racist YT trying to limit the opportunities of black people and the blckCON's support is just an outward display of their loyal "COONING" for the right....nothing more....and for the fact you two groups try to convince me of any other intent.....proves that you are both master/slave relationship acting out idiots......
quote:
Now, at no point have you or CF presented an alternative, much less a functional or more beneficial one. Just inane rhetoric about how little AA does. Ummm... the way you have expressed your ideas saying that does not denigrate AA it denigrates your lack of better ideas which have not been forthcoming. You're the one with a problem with it. It's incumbent on you to present alternatives and not just rhetoric stating why you are against AA.




**And as I stated inmy last post Nmaginate....that is why they are idiots...even IF I was totally satisfied with AA as cure-all (which I am damn sure not...but idiots have to put words in my mouth to try and strengthen their weak azz idiot-based logic) I did not work to repeal it...they did....so the onus is on them to present an alternative, which they cannot or refuse to do....which just demonstrates their racist and cooning intent.....CF cannot even answer logical questions about the motivation for such a stance on the issue and has the nerve to lie low on those questions for a while as if I forgot I presented them to him...and then re-asserts himself on the topic from the premise that we never had the previous discussions that he has already diverted, deflected and ignored....he must think I suffer from that Adult ADD schit that hinders his own ability to answer a question directly...man what an idiot.....
quote:
I am not the one working to dismantle something that worked effectively for 30+ years, why don't you ask those who work to do so why they did not come up with a better alternative themselves?



You are correct Kevin. If the White man has a problem with the Affirmative Action program in which a few Black kids are allowed to attend school beside his white kids then he needs to come up with an alternative plan because Black people need to go to school also. I feel you man.

Affirmative Action is an important public policy milestone that capped off centuries of racial oppression. They owe us an alternative if they don't like AA.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:

And, DD... who really has missed that point?
[/QUOTE]

I got the point of the post - I commented becuase there was a shift from a statement of facts in the first two paragraphs of Kevin's post on Boston Latin to an editorial in the last. The inclusion of the editorial led to my question. There is no evidence provided to show that "Clearly this huge drop in black enrollments at Boston Latin will do serious damage to the prospects of African-American students from Boston's public schools to gain an education necessary for them to compete and be admitted to our nation's most selective colleges and universities." Adding the last paragraph without statistics to prove the assertion leaves nothing to discuss (in the specific example given - which is what Kevin is asking conservatives to justify).

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