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Rowe: I don't get it. You take what I say, at least in this thread, completely out of context and then imply that I am part of the problem.

I agree with your analogy about the lioness, but the kids that I am referring to in this instance do not have that kind of mother or they would not be in the position to consider having sex under age in the first place. You know this, yet you persist in demonizing me on an issue that practically speaking we agree on.

I am fine with the fact that you are anti choice, I am fine with the fact that you don't believe in birth control. But since every teen that we are discussing will not have the resources, internal or external, to think that she or he has the right to say no to sex before marriage the problem of teenage pregnancy will persist. Sometime stop gap measures are the best you can do when working from the outside.

If the teen in question is never privy to why sex should not be engaged in pre-marriage what is that teen going to do in the heat of the moment, have sex or say no? Those two choices, while seemingly absolute to you are not absolute to me. I see the shades of gray and grey. I know more teenage mothers than I care to name because I used to work with them in an after school program that was meant to prevent future pregnancies. These girls struggle with peer pressure and self esteem issues that I could never have imagined because they were no where near the ones I struggled with nor can I begin to scratch the surface there very real concerns of in this thread without writing for hours.

Suffice it to say that the teens I worked with had sex for all the wrong reasons and most do not even know what an orgasm is let alone know what it is like to have one. Their mothers either condone the behavior or ignore their daughter clear cry for help. Why, well maybe it is because they have and had the same problems. Unless our society and culture begins to say Video girls must be dressed appropriately. Corner our artist and say your lyrics should be less sex oriented and do more to raise self esteem we will continue to see this problem prevail. But if we talk to our artist we run into that little problem of the 1st Amendment. Paraphrasing my college's most famous alums "I've had my say" and we can agree to disagree on this subject but I am glad we agree on others.
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Originally posted by Lux_Vicioux:
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
marriage is no longer encouraged in the Black society. Being a single mom is now a sign of strength to many ghetto minded types. I disagree with this viewpoint, but it is very difficult for one person to change society. A weird reality of this 'lifestyle' is that you can't say 'congratulations' to a single mom when her pregnancy is announced. Very, very sad


Ghetto minded types? You mean like single middle class white women who make up the majority of single mothers? Or do you really mean the racist and classist idea of single black women living in the ghetto as the only single mothers in the world.

I'm not ghetto minded and I hate the idea that black people could be this classist against each other. Marriage isn't encouraged in most of American society, it's not just blacks. Maybe we need to actually go back to what marriage was all about? Marriage was about ownership of women, it was about building a family with a man as the head of the household in the dominant position. In America women couldn't own property, work, collect paychecks all the things that considered the man's job. Now they can, and with that freedom comes the ability to make decisions and choices, ones that maybe you don't agree with but that women in America are making and they aren't simply black women.

You can say congratulations to a single mom when her child is born, if you choose not to then that's a decision you've made. My mother loved me and cherished me. I was raised by a single mother and if you want to understand why women are single we'd better start looking at domestic abuse rates, education, economic backgrounds, and sexual assault statistics. All of these things go together and correspond with each other.


over 70% of black children are born out of wedlock.
The problem isn't songs or people praising single-mothers, but my theory is that one reason is women's expectations based on their circumstances that leads to the increase in single-motherhood.

There was a study that showed that most Black women report a strong desire for marriage.

Regardless of the growing support for single-mothers, most of our women's dreams aren't for a knight to come along and then leave them barefoot and pregnant with overdue bills.

But the same study found that many Black women report that it's unlikely that they will get married.

These same women with the strong desire.

The pessimism increases with age and with lower income.

That probably explains why many of us aren't waiting for the unlikely before having child.

You can cross your fingers and wait for marriage, but what if you believe the wedding day will never come?

Women have less reason to believe that they'll never have children if they have a strong desire for them.

You have more control over whether you have children than over marriage.

And it's easier to accidentally get pregnant than to accidentally get married by the guy who you think might be the one.

Should women waive their dreams of motherhood until the doubtful happens?
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Lux_Vicioux:
What is shameful exactly about having a child out of wedlock? I suppose if you subscribe to Christian culture that would be one of the viewpoints. But children are not punishments to be seen as embarressments after you've been sexual involved.


To begin, Christians are not the only group who have structured their communities around communal and marital relationsips. Some of the earliest human beings have sought out marital relationships because they quickly and wisely realized that two people can accomplish alot more than just one individual acting alone. Thus, a wife, husband, children, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc., all of these community members are needed and share important roles in maintaining a thriving community. Additionally, bonds established between men and women for the purposes of creating families should not be viewed as worthless simply because Americans have problems relating to one other. America does not represent the world. Americans are also plagued by contridicatory and conflicting values which negatively affect their ability to function as a community. This is how it is possible for America's leaders to invest unprecedented amounts of money into America's military efforts all the while acknowledging that a growing number of American children cannot read. They would rather solve the rest of the world's problems than acknowledge and confront the problems that are unique to white Americans, including problems relating to one another in communal rather than competitive and indvidualistic ways. You are also incorrect in your reference to marriage as a method of subugation against women. Perhaps in some patriarchal cultures this can be argued. However, history has uncovered social systems that were clearly matriarchal and where women stood to gain more from participating in a marriage than the men. Inside these social systems, married women are more valued than single women. They enjoy a higher status and all of the preferential treatment that is issued as result of ascending to a higher status. Married women become highly esteemed members of the community. Community members, especially younger women, count on them to represent and maintain the morale of the community. They go to them for advice, spiritual guidance, and assistance in solving problems that are unique to women. It is also important to note that unlike women in industrial societies who become less vauled with age, women in indigenous societies' value to the community seems to increase with age.

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Simply because a woman has a child out of wedlock does not mean that a father won't be involved or that a father is absentee.


Either you are incredibly niave or you're a male poster considering the kinds of arguments you've made thus far. In more cases than we would like Lux, the father IS absentee. A man who has a child out of wedlock is usually the first to go. And even after the baby is born and he initially wants to be there for the mother, he's half-assing it by not consistently paying child support or comes around for visitation only when he wants to have sex with the mother. Why do you think child support cases are through the roof? And what do you think the endless complaints by single mothers are about? Do you think these women are complaining because its fun??? That's precisely why having children out of wedlock is is generally viewed as unfavorable, because it is unfavorable. The father is usually a no-show or a half-show and the child is less likely to get the benefits of consistent financial, emotional, and social support that every child needs and definitely deserves. A woman (or man) who thinks that they can raise a child all by themselves and the child is not missing out on the benefits of having regular interaction with both parents is a fool. A fool who is bent on dressing up a problem rather than acknowledging exactly what it is: a problem.



sometimes I just love you Rowe...


excellently stated...


hug
Sister Ebony, don't even give this fool the attention that he's so desparately seeking. You know AA.org gets its share of special nut cases every year. So he's going to terrorize this side of the board with his ranting and religious babbling until someone eventually bans his ass off the site. I swear, I don't know where these people come from. Roll Eyes
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Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
You know AA.org gets its share of special nut cases every year. I swear, I don't know where these people come from. Roll Eyes


lol

Im sorry for laughing, but this was too funny!!!

I couldnt help it!! LMAO


Sister Qty, how many times do we have to tell you to KEEP THE DOOR CLOSED?!? You left the door open again. nono Oh well, I guess I'll go get the hose. lol
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Originally posted by qty226:
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Originally posted by Rowe:
Sister Qty, how many times do we have to tell you to KEEP THE DOOR CLOSED?!? You left the door open again. nono lol


lol

It wasnt me.......it was uuummmmm Gambit.....!! I told him this would happen.

lol lol

Im reading these forums, and laughing so hard, my side hurts........what a mess!!!


If you really want to laugh, read this dude's responses to other threads. Talk about a nut job. It's beyond sad.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Sister Qty, how many times do we have to tell you to KEEP THE DOOR CLOSED?!? You left the door open again. nono lol


lol

It wasnt me.......it was uuummmmm Gambit.....!! I told him this would happen.

lol lol

Im reading these forums, and laughing so hard, my side hurts........what a mess!!!


spank spank spank

LOL...now that ain't right!
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El Tigre ...

Do men not crawl between the legs of weak women?

And do men not follow their God's commandments?

And do they not go to nightclubs?

Do men CHOOSE to control these factors?




True.

But, unless we're talking RAPE - women have the ultimate control. Nothing can happens without the women's consent.

It's like blaming men for the porno industry - sure, they're in there adding to it - but, it wouldn't be possible without women. They have the ultimate choice and the ultimate power.


I'm not sure who the person above was insulting - was it me?
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Originally posted by El Tigre:
True.

But, unless we're talking RAPE - women have the ultimate control. Nothing can happens without the women's consent.

It's like blaming men for the porno industry - sure, they're in there adding to it - but, it wouldn't be possible without women. They have the ultimate choice and the ultimate power.


I'm not sure who the person above was insulting - was it me?



Yes, it is you brother. We've been hysterically laughing at these Fred Flintstone responses that you've been writing.
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
True.

But, unless we're talking RAPE - women have the ultimate control. Nothing can happens without the women's consent.


Yes, but, if a woman is weak, a "stronger" man would not need to commit rape against her. If he is a "stronger" man, he should follow his God's commandments and not commit fornication in the first place, and should he become "weak" enough to do so, what is so strong about walking away from the baby he fathered and/or the woman he impregnated? Confused

Regardless of who has the ultimate choice, it takes one from both male and female at the same time to create a life.


quote:
I'm not sure who the person above was insulting - was it me?


Yes, I believe it was! Smile
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Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Sister Rowe ...

Please behave!! laugh

He says he is here because a female friend of his told him that some of our men members did not know how to treat females properly!! So, he's here to show them!! Eek


Well after his "lessons", we'll be lucky just to be able to speak in men's presence, never mind being treated properly. lol Ok, I'll behave. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Sister Rowe ...

Please behave!! laugh


My apologies, sis!! I just read a couple more of his posts ... I didn't know! Eek

As usual, it appears you have our best interests at heart! hug


I told you dude was crazy. I read all of his responses, and he's truly misguided, to say the very least. I don't even see the point of responding to his nonsense, because it's nothing but a bunch of blaming women and very little holding men accountable for anything. In our years on this forum Sister Ebony, we've watched these type of weak-willed men come and go. They blame women for everything (women are used as scapegoats to cushion the blow of poor judgement), and they assume absolutely no responsibility at all for the choices and decisions they make on their own. It's pathetic that our society is producing these type of men in general. But THANK GOODNESS that we have new members like Honestbrother and others to join AA.org and counter these poor examples of manhood. For these men, I am eternally grateful.
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Misguided...

No. I make it work.

I'm not lonely or unfulfilled in a world full of people who are.

And the Fred Flintstone crack is a compliment, even if you didn't intend it. That's all we are - everything else is just window dressing and made-up shit.

And, it gets is the way of the basic male and female essence.

I speak of the root cause and solutions while being attacked for it. WOMEN HOLD THE KEY and if they thought this, instead of being so weak they look at what MEN are doing, they could start a change.

Men are just as bad with none of the power. If this thread was about them then, I'd have things to say about their responsibilities.

I'm trying to get women to see THEIR role and power.

ANY woman that gets pregnant, wants to talk about the man - when THEY have the vagina and THEY will carry the baby and when you break up, THEY will take the baby.

But, when asked to stop making so many babies, ignorant women will say 'what about the men?'

Men don't have a vagina, men don't get pregnant. Until women take 100% responsibility for THEIR BODIES, there will always be chaos.
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Men don't have a vagina, men don't get pregnant.


You're absolutely right. Men have DICKS and they GET women pregnant. Your solutions are not balanced. Period. If a person (man or woman) does not want to have an unplanned pregnancy, it is each person's responsibility to either abstain from having sex, or take precautions. It is not more of the woman's responsibility or the man's responsibility - both share EQUAL responsibility, as intelligent adults, to make conscious decisions. Grow up in your thinking. Joining AA.org with a mission to blame and point fingers at people is not going to accomplish anything, anyway. The women of AA.org have read these kinds of accusations before, and they have done nothing but insued defensive and combative arguments that led to but one very important conclusion: Both men AND women must be responsible for their actions. NEXT!
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quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
I speak of the root cause and solutions while being attacked for it. WOMEN HOLD THE KEY and if they thought this, instead of being so weak they look at what MEN are doing, they could start a change.


Let me just say this, because there is something in your post that says that you really believe much of what you're saying. At present, there are close to one million Black men in jail. And this is not a number that I've made up brother, this is a fact. The problems that put these men in jail go far beyond teenage pregnancy and premarital sex. Therefore, since compared to Black women who are graduating from colleges and obtaining successful careers in record numbers, Black men are in the more vulnerable position, the responsibility to change must start with them. Black women are not being wharehoused and packed in jails like cattle - BLACK MEN ARE. So it is THEY who needs to focus on changing, and the responsibility to change starts with them, not their woman's, not their children's, not their momma, but THEIR responsibility.

Sisters are waiting for you all to change. They are waiting for you all to reclaim your children and waiting for you all to be the fathers, sons, brothers, and husbands that we want you all to be. More importantly, Black women are waiting for Black men to once again assume LEADERSHIP in their communities. If this desparately-needed leadership and security were thriving in their communities, then perhaps Black women would not need to be as career-driven as they are today. Knowing that they have a community full of successful Black men who are prepared and capable of taking care of wives and children, would be a great comfort to many women, let me tell you.

But they don't. So Black men must stop blaming everyone else, least of all women, for the problems that they face. Stop handing over your power to others, especially over to women and children. YOU have the power to overcome whatever you want in this life. Your role as a man is be responsible for yourself, your wife, and your children. It is up to you all to reclaim that power, rather than blame everyone else who has already moved upward and onward. No progress will be made until you do.

When a community does not have the security and the protection of strong male leadership, it is extremely vulnerable.
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I agree with what you say regarding black men.

We, as a group, have become sad in the least and, dangerous at our worst.

I have many essays on the failure of our men and I have solutions I've offered, too.

But, ultimately, it's your momma who has the greatest influence you. So, mothers are the single most important people on earth - with the MOST important job.

And, we need women to know WHO and WHAT they are. First thing is to turn off that f*cking hip hop...
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Originally posted by little minx:
dang, now why didn't the thousands of single mothers think of that? sounds so simple doesn't it?


there are actually 3.1 million single black moms in America

"The number of single-mother families increased from three million in 1970 to 10 million in 2003, while the number of single-father families grew from less than 500,000 to 2 million. There are now 3.1 million black single mothers compared to 6.4 million white single mothers and 1.8 million single Hispanic mothers."

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?...s_alt_category_id=51
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
But, ultimately, it's your momma who has the greatest influence you. So, mothers are the single most important people on earth - with the MOST important job.



Change Your Behavior and Your Attitude


And when mom is given the full support and security that she needs from the man who has fathered her children, this makes being a mom much easier. As an experienced educator, I notice that students who suffer from persistent behavioral, emotional, and/or academic problems have one salient characteristic in common: None of them have fathers who are actively participating and making a positive difference in their lives. The mother is present, doing the best that she can without the support of a husband and father, but she struggles to create an artificial balance that is simply not there. This is why you need to discontinue ministering about the importance of "Women Worship," and get on with the serious business of educating Black men about the importance of being fathers and making a postive contribution to our society in general. "Women Worshipping" is not going to get those 800,000 Black out of jail, and it certainly will not keep another 800,000 from going in. EDUCATED, EMPLOYED, and WELL-PREPARED fathers who are capable of rearing children will.

And we certainly do not need any more men who are combative, fault-finding, immature, and have displayed the kind of unnecessary disrespect towards women that you have displayed thus far. Get your act together brother, because this much is true: You will not have any kind of positive impact on THIS virtual community by describing people as ugly, bitches, and/or "vaginas with attitudes." Doing this will only expose your poor character and a weak and foolish mind. Unfortunately, you arrived to this site possessing a very negative attitude and a disgusting disposition; and therefore, you got EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESERVED from the members of this site.

If you want people to take you seriously and to consider what you have to say to us with patience and respect, then show others patience and respect.

Positivity begets positivity.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Men don't have a vagina, men don't get pregnant.


You're absolutely right. Men have DICKS and they GET women pregnant. Your solutions are not balanced. Period. If a person (man or woman) does not want to have an unplanned pregnancy, it is each person's responsibility to either abstain from having sex, or take precautions. It is not more of the woman's responsibility or the man's responsibility - both share EQUAL responsibility, as intelligent adults, to make conscious decisions. Grow up in your thinking. Joining AA.org with a mission to blame and point fingers at people is not going to accomplish anything, anyway. The women of AA.org have read these kinds of accusations before, and they have done nothing but insued defensive and combative arguments that led to but one very important conclusion: Both men AND women must be responsible for their actions. NEXT!


yeah
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by El Tigre:
Men don't have a vagina, men don't get pregnant.


You're absolutely right. Men have DICKS and they GET women pregnant. Your solutions are not balanced. Period. If a person (man or woman) does not want to have an unplanned pregnancy, it is each person's responsibility to either abstain from having sex, or take precautions. It is not more of the woman's responsibility or the man's responsibility - both share EQUAL responsibility, as intelligent adults, to make conscious decisions. Grow up in your thinking. Joining AA.org with a mission to blame and point fingers at people is not going to accomplish anything, anyway. The women of AA.org have read these kinds of accusations before, and they have done nothing but insued defensive and combative arguments that led to but one very important conclusion: Both men AND women must be responsible for their actions. NEXT!


yeah


Brother Honest, I just thank God for members like you, because you have been a positive addition and influence to us in this site. You have been patient, observant, slow to speak, understanding, Fair, respectful to our female members, at all times, and even forgiving. I wish we could clone men like you one million times.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
You have been patient, observant, slow to speak, understanding, Fair, respectful to our female members, at all times, and even forgiving.



Thank you, sister Rowe ... but some might disagree with you there ... lol


I know, but compared to this guy, your'e a blessing!
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
You have been patient, observant, slow to speak, understanding, Fair, respectful to our female members, at all times, and even forgiving.



Thank you, sister Rowe ... but some might disagree with you there ... lol


They just don't recognize your charm is all. kiss
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
They just don't recognize your charm is all. kiss


Yah, If he lived closer, I'd ask him on a date.


I see we both have good taste in men. Smile Honestbrother is one of the few here who I will listen to because I believe his sincerity. I have much for respect him, and as y'all well know. . .he is a very smart man & very insightful with a great sense of humour. Smile

I am willing to hop on a train, plane, bus, boat, swim. . . or ride a horse even. LOL. just to tell him in-person, face to face: Nice to meet you my brother...please know that I gots plenty of love for ya. bow

Sooooooooooo ML~

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