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Henry, I guess I can not relate to what you are saying much like I can not relate to Ocatchings and RadioRaheem experience in the military with Black women. I never tell women what they want to here nor are there things I will say in this medium that I will not say in real life, doing so is faking the funk and all talk, something I thought you were against, you know; "is it just talk or are you for solutions?"

If men are lying to women as you hinted at, by telling them what they want to hear, could this be a bigger problem than the problem discussed in the article? Maybe women are just tired of being lied to and having sweet nothings whispered in their ears that mean absolutely nothing.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
Well said Vox. One of the things I like about the Internet message boards is the fact that you can say things that you cannot say in real life. In real life both men and women misled each other and the end result is you can date someone for years and never really know that person.

I see discussion boards to be an arena where we can be really be honest to each other. Express ourselves freely due to the anonymity of cyberspace and if one is here to learn, one can be confident that the opinions expressed is how some people REALLY feel about issues. Unfortunately there is this tendency by sisters in particular on the board to gag and control what brothers' say. You can see it happening in this topic by how the sisters react when they don't like a brother's POV. The end result is you can sense the life and spirit going out of the discussion and it dies out. I think it is unfortunate because if we follow the cue of some of you the sisters we would never be any the wiser and the message board would be a very boring place indeed.

In real life men know women like us men to talk and act in a certain way and we respond by telling women what they want to hear. There are things I would say on the Internet that I would not repeat in real life. The Internet is an information zone and we come here to really learn, if we start saying things that massages our egos what really is the point in logging on. One might as well go out with friends and watch one's "P" and "Q" in converstion

I don't think what Vox said is macho bull crap at all. I might not agree with him which I am entitled to and expressed but I believe what he said is valid and on point as what he sees and says is based on his background and experiences. I believe if more men and women TRULY expressed their views on the opposite sex without fear of praise or criticism it would go a long way and help with more honest and secure relationships.




Henry, I hate to disagree with a defense of me, but I'm with Faheem, I can't relate to much of this post of yours here. First, of all, there's nothing I say here that I can't or don't say offline. Second, I gather from your posting history that you have some issues against women, and they tend to show in the above quote of yours. When you decry "how the sisters react when they don't like a brother's POV," you make it sound like something unique among the sisters. I don't like how Negrospiritual took my quote out of context, but she's not the only person who ever does that. A lot of times, people disagree so strongly that they take sharp issue with you and will let you know it. That doesn't STIFLE discussion, it FURTHERS it. We see this all the time, in message boards AND in real life. I believe, from my impression of your writings, that "the life and spirit going out of the discussion" only occurs when it's a WOMAN who disagrees with you about male-female issues. When you have archaic beliefs about women and when they should speak and address a man, I guess the life goes out of a discussion when the woman violates those notions you have.

And this talk about dating someone for years without knowing them, and lying and misleading them, if you see a problem with that, maybe changing that is the key to better relationships.
Vox let me ask you one question since you all seem to focus on the fact that I have an issue because someone disagreed with me. NO ONE DID. Do me the favour of going through the entire topic. Take Faheem with you and show me the single instance that someone disagreed with me. The issue of contention came up because of something YOU SAID. That is the difference my friend it had nothing to do with my views PRIOR. This is becoming very annoying as you ignore this STARTED WITH YOUR VIEWS, NOT MINE. And Vox don't tell me I have issues with women because I don't if anything I am sure I have been married and stayed happily married far longer than you have stayed in a single relationship.

That is an issue I will deal with you as I notice the last time you said something to that effect and I ignored it seems to indicate to you that you can repeat it and get away with it. Deal with this now and I will call you up to talk about this other issues and see if you would have a leg to stand on. Right now I WANT ANSWERS show me where someone disagreed with me in this thread that you and Faheem seem to have latched on to.

_____________________________
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Vox, I am still waiting for you to clarify your macho crap to me!!!!!

And another thing, I have started a thread in the "?" section for you and I and to talk man to man and not offend anyone with our brevity. Can you respond there as well.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
quote:
Originally posted by Len:

What I'm interpreting from your words and some others is that some men who do not have a macho persona. They may experience rejection and become bitter. That bitterness may be unconsciously taken into other relationships, and if these relationships fail. As a result the man may decides to dismiss all the sisters. That to me is unfair and narrow-minded. Unless of course this is all a facade and the man's real desire is to date outside his race. But he blames his choice on his bad experiences with sisters rather than state his current preference of women.

**I think you many need to add the 'in the meantime' idea to that...you see, while the young blk woman 'rejects' the military/college steve urkels'...in the meantime they date outside their race...in the meantime these relationships grow...in the meantime these relationship become marriages...in the meantime that 'i needs me a thug' mindset in many young blk women changes to ...'i want an educated, professional man'...question...should a Black , educated, ex- military..and now 'professional'/'established' 'made man'...'turn his back on the only women that loved him up to that point?? Should he 'dump' his 'white wife' because Blk women NOW desire him after the 'tought rough' time of Military poverty and being 'poor college trash'?? What about love?? Maybe the 'single black woman's 'emotional' agrument about 'never being able to find a good man' is a load of bull poop, esp if she was one of those 'rejectors'**


I've also noticed the comparison of non- black women to black women:
I totally dismiss these types of comparison because it is like comparing apples to oranges.
**They are both women...they seem simliar enough to me and most people**


There are so many factors that distinguish our differences in terms of experiences and attitudes. So, comparing us to justify your choice falls is pointless.
**maybe you can't see it, but women are fairly simliar overall...i think they differ in choices and what they have done with certain opportunities in their lives. Many blk, educated/or educating themselves blk women [in college] choose to date thugs/bad boys etc...some of them call it 'keeping it real'...do white women in Ivy League colleges date only 'trailer park trash' to 'keep it real??'...or is that a 'choice' that many blk women choose?? Again, i deal in reality here, nothing more or less.**

Nonetheless, if you think you're better off choosing a white girl be forewarned that with the rise of out of wedlock pregnancies among white women. In 1991, 707,502 babies were born to single white women, representing 22% of white births. This is similar to what happen with black illegitimacy in the early 1960s. Patrick Moynihan at the time predicted a breakdown in the black family. Fact is there is a growing underclass in white America. But white media don't broadcast this type information. They only put black faces on illegitimacy. These births btw cut across social classes. So, IMO if brothers are running from sisters because you that they have issues, you all may be running out of the frying pan into the skillet. Having said that it is best to relate to people on an individual basis.

**I don't understand this posting about white women, it seems like you can not hold up your end of this discussion any longer. Just know that the IR couples you see around you MAY have very little to do with skin color as much as 'growth' and 'choices'. BTW, What you should know is that for the over 70% Out of wedlock rate for blk women, those women..for the most part made that 'choice'. Maybe white women, in that instance, would be a much better choice in a date..thanks for pointing that out Big Grin

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
"Maybe you are not in your middle to late twenties and can not imagine the current reality, but this is just the way things are. I challenge you to quiz single, childless, college aged blk women and see what kinds of men that date...it's not steve urkel. Other races of women have a long history of dating steve urkel's of whatever race."[b]

If you're genuine in your argument rebut it! Don't short answer me with an elementary criticism. Big Grin Also, your response was before I could finish editing the message. So, here is the repost. Rebut it!!


You are correct. No, I don't have military status and am not in my 20s. brosmile Nor do I talk with young ladies in that age bracket. My contact is with younger ladies. The challenge is something I must consider though as it would be enlightening. However, I've been that age and remember my thoughts and behavior at the time.

It seems in each generation the macho (rough) male is the most popular or desirable. Perhaps some young women don't realize it's only an image, and people are sometimes the complete opposite of the image they portray. A young adventurous mind however, may not see through the facade. Although at times I didn't listen, I had a support system -elder loves ones who forewarned me about certain type of young men. Not all young women have that support system. Therefore, they may make choices that are not good for them in the long run.

What I'm interpreting from your words and some others is that some men who do not have a macho persona may experience rejection. I believe too many rejections and bad relationships can turn into bitterness, which contribute to fail relationships. After numerous failed relationships with some sisters, it seems some brothers dismiss all sisters. That to me is unfair and narrow-minded. Unless of course this is all a facade and the man's real desire is to date outside his race. Rather than be upfront and state his current preference he blames his choice on his bad experiences with sisters.

I've also noticed the comparison of non- black women to black women:
I totally dismiss these types of comparison because it is like comparing apples to oranges. There are so many factors that distinguish our differences in terms of experiences and attitudes. So, comparing us to justify your choice is pointless.

Nonetheless, if you think you're better off choosing a white girl be forewarned out of wedlock pregnancies among white women on the rise. In 1991, 707,502 babies were born to single white women, representing 22% of white births. This is similar to what happen with black illegitimacy in the early 1960s. Patrick Moynihan at the time predicted a breakdown in the black family. Fact is there is a growing underclass in white America. But white media don't broadcast this type information. They only put black faces on illegitimacy. These births btw cut across social classes. So, IMO if brothers are running from sisters because you think they have issues, you all may be running out of the frying pan into the skillet. Having said that it is best to relate to people on an individual basis.

God Bless you too RadioRaheem. brosmile

[This message was edited by Len on December 02, 2003 at 02:07 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
I believe, from my impression of your writings, that "the life and spirit going out of the discussion" only occurs when it's a WOMAN who disagrees with you about male-female issues. When you have archaic beliefs about women and when they should speak and address a man, I guess the life goes out of a discussion when the woman violates those notions you have.
IS THIS SOMETHING ELSE IN THAT SHIT HEAD BRAIN OF YOURS OR CAN YOU SHOW ME THIS AS WELL.
SHOW ME ALL THESE THREADS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
"BTW, What you should know is that for the over 70% Out of wedlock rate for blk women, those women..for the most part made that 'choice'. Maybe white women, in that instance, would be a much better choice in a date..thanks for pointing that out" -RadioRaheem

This statement is very telling of your argument. That is you are disingenuous in your argument as your total aim is to put down black women to promote your choice of interracial dating/marriage. My contention is that is a narrow way of justifying your choice. Further exchange with you will probably be pointless. Nonetheless, I'll await your rebuttal.
quote:
Originally posted by Len:
_"BTW, What you should know is that for the over 70% Out of wedlock rate for blk women, those women..for the most part made that 'choice'. Maybe white women, in that instance, would be a much better choice in a date..thanks for pointing that out" -RadioRaheem_

This statement is very telling of your argument. That is you are disingenuous in your argument as your total aim is to put down black women to promote your choice of interracial dating/marriage. My contention is that is a narrow way of justifying your choice. Further exchange with you will probably be pointless. Nonetheless, I'll await your rebuttal.

First, YOU brought up white women..I didn't!!!


isn't your 'target' white women that are actually growing with a brother?? Shouldn't the black community welcome them as 'supporters', like the Jews during the Civil Rights movement?? why can't black women just grow with a brother like that?? You never answered this...is it that young blk women are not as 'bright' as white women or other races of women that see 'potential' in the steve urkels?? Maybe you should actually do my challenge and SPEAK TO young blk women and see what they like. Maybe you can't see this with your 'predetermined' answer of black men should be with blk women...NO MATTER WHAT!! Three kids with three different losers?? Never supported a positive blk man of any type?? No matter!!!, blk men should look past that. Roll Eyes Nice to see that you are 'open minded'....BTW, some blk women are trifling, whether you wish to see it or not. I await your response after you 'SPEAK TO' young blk women before you 'SPEAK FOR' them. Big Grin

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 02, 2003 at 02:52 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by isistah:
What bothers me most about this type of discussion is the generalizing. I am not Black Women; I am one woman who can only speak for herself and hope that the men I encounter appreciate me for myself and don't lump me into the baggage of the collective mass of black women he has ever known or heard of. When we stop seeing each other as individuals, aren't we practicing bigotry of a sorts?


i agree, but we need to be 'general', because being 'specific' would require that we all know and understand the choices of one person. We all don't know the same people, so being 'generic' allows us all to communicate about this topic.

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
quote:
Originally posted by Len:
_"BTW, What you should know is that for the over 70% Out of wedlock rate for blk women, those women..for the most part made that 'choice'. Maybe white women, in that instance, would be a much better choice in a date..thanks for pointing that out" -RadioRaheem_

This statement is very telling of your argument. That is you are disingenuous in your argument as your total aim is to put down black women to promote your choice of interracial dating/marriage. My contention is that is a narrow way of justifying your choice. Further exchange with you will probably be pointless. Nonetheless, I'll await your rebuttal.

First, YOU brought up white women..I didn't!!!


isn't your 'target' white women that are actually growing with a brother?? Shouldn't the black community welcome them as 'supporters', like the Jews during the Civil Rights movement?? why can't black women just grow with a brother like that?? You never answered this...is it that young blk women are not as 'bright' as white women or other races of women that see 'potential' in the steve urkels?? Maybe you should actually do my challenge and SPEAK TO young blk women and see what they like. Maybe you can't see this with your 'predetermined' answer of black men should be with blk women...NO MATTER WHAT!! Three kids with three different losers?? Never supported a positive blk man of any type?? No matter!!!, blk men should look past that. Roll Eyes Nice to see that you are 'open minded'....BTW, some blk women are trifling, whether you wish to see it or not. I await your response after you 'SPEAK TO' young blk women before you 'SPEAK FOR' them. Big Grin

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 02, 2003 at 02:52 PM.]




I've seen a lot of "under-cover" steve urkels in my day that turned out to be dogs. Based on what I've seen, many women have lowered their standards just to be with someone. I think that we need to raise our standards (I don't mean financially speaking) and expect only the best treatment.

Now women do have to play a role in addressing their situation. We do need to ask ourselves why we attract the people we attract. At the same time, we must realize that we can't really control the other sex either.
To RadioRaheem:

Anyone who has followed my posting know I have never spoke against a person's right to choose whomever they want to date or marry. I've only stated my preference. Further, I don't know personally of any white women growing with black men. That is obviously your experience and/or opinion, which is the one-sided message you've constantly proclaimed on this board.

My objection is to anyone who makes excuses for their right to choose. The other message I'm conveying is if you desire someone outside your race have the courage to say it! That is the totality of my argument. Moreover, if you are right and firm in your convictions you do not have to degrade others to get your point across. That is always my argument.

However, degrading sisters is your constant message even the sarcastic holiday wish was in my view disingenuous. You keep comparing black women to non-black women. Making a choice to choose a certain type of man or woman does not make one dumb if so, everyone of us is dummies including those non-black women you seem to worship. Obviously, this is your only defense, which is no defense at all. You often accuse others of being narrow-minded, but all of your posts that I've read lack versatility. Wish begs to question what are your true motives. It seems to me it is only to promote interracial dating and marriage at the expense of degrading black women. That along (IMO) makes your argument disingenuous.

[This message was edited by Len on December 02, 2003 at 04:11 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Len:
To RadioRaheem:

Anyone who has followed my posting know I have never spoke against a person's right to choose whomever they want to date or marry. I've only stated my preference. Further, I don't know personally of any white women growing with black men. That is obviously your experience and/or opinion, which is the one-sided message you've constantly proclaimed on this board.

My objection is to anyone who makes excuses for their right to choose. The other message I'm conveying is if you desire someone outside your race have the courage to say it! That is the totality of my argument. Moreover, if you are right and firm in your convictions you do not have to degrade others to get your point across. That is always my argument.

However, degrading sisters is your constant message even the sarcastic holiday wish was disingenuous. You keep comparing black women to non-black women. Making a choice to choose a certain type of man or woman does not make one dumb if so, everyone of us is dummies including those non-black women you seem to worship. Obviously, this is your only defense, which is no defense at all. You often accuse others of being narrow-minded, but all of your posts that I've read lack versatility. Wish begs to question what are your true motives. It seems to me it is only to promote interracial dating and marriage at the expense of degrading black women. That along (IMO) makes your argument incredulous.


i think you are ignoring the 'tone' from many black women here about IR dating...basicailly, there is NO good reason to date 'others'..some here even suggested that blk men be 'raised' to love blk women only....yet and still having no problems with blk women dating interracially...if IR coupling is so bad..why do blk women do it?? if it is so good, why can't blk men do it?? You are forgetting who actually 'start' these topics, most times..it's insure blk women looking for any excuse to dog out IR couples[i.e. the post in the sista spot about caucasion coochie and the kobe posts in the sports area]. I am still awaiting your 'interviews' with young blk women, so you can SEE what i am saying...absent of that you will not understand my point...Black men are dating other colors, not just for 'race' reason alone. I'm not degrading black women, i am merely pointing out instances in which they degrade themselves...which often get ignored in this forum. The choice of man and later complaining about that choice and trying to change it, surely does make one foolish, wouldn't you think?? I mean, how many of the 70% Out of wedlock birth moms forgot that they were not married on that kid's birthday?? who chose that kid's father?? I'm sorry to can't seethe larger picture here, God Bless

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
Respectfully, you are incorrect this discussion which is really off topic because it has turned into an interracial debate. I have only read and responded to one other topic, -the Kobe topic. As I can remember my comment, which is now deleted, was quite liberal both Noah and Faheem wrote an excellent counter arguments to my post. So don't tell me what I'm doing if you haven't followed my posts.

Look, trying to argue someone into accepting interracial dating is like hitting your head against a prick particularly for with some sisters. To date or marry outside one's race is a personal choice. Just as you are for interracial couples, others have the right to be against them. And let me tell you taking a defensive mentality, as you perceive others to have is not going to bring them around and vice versa. If anything everyone is going to become more defensive. So, perhaps you should stick to your convictions and let others stick to their convictions. Please know that when you start degrading or hurling insults at black women you will run into opposition.

Enough on interracial couples, besides your comments are becoming pointless as it seems this all you want do is argue on trival points. I sincerely hope you find peace with your decision.

The comments should go back on topic.
quote:
Originally posted by Len:
Respectfully, you are incorrect this discussion which is really off topic because it has turned into an interracial debate. I have only read and responded to one other topic, -the Kobe topic. As I can remember my comment, which is now deleted, was quite liberal both Noah and Faheem wrote an excellent counter arguments to my post. So don't tell me what I'm doing if you haven't followed my posts.

Look, trying to argue someone into accepting interracial dating is like hitting your head against a prick particularly for with some sisters. To date or marry outside one's race is a personal choice. Just as you are for interracial couples, others have the right to be against them. And let me tell you taking a defensive mentality, as you perceive others to have is not going to bring them around and vice versa. If anything everyone is going to become more defensive. So, perhaps you should stick to your convictions and let others stick to their convictions. Please know that when you start degrading or hurling insults at black women you will run into opposition.

Enough on interracial couples, besides your comments are becoming pointless as it seems this all you want do is argue on trival points. I sincerely hope you find peace with your decision.

The comments should go back on topic.


Henry38 began talking about IR couples at his church, not me. You jumped in and referenced me in YOUR POST...was i not to comment?? if so, why?? You tried to get 'personal' with me and trying to link this to other stuff...why??

my argue is pointless?? what about yours?? 'pointless'?? Thanks for acknowledging that you running out of crap to post. Again, i'm sorry you are out of touch with reality..this is a message board, where people are 'encouraged' to discuss things. Agree...disgree...that's the POINT!!!
If you can't hold up your end of the discussion, please stop, because you are only talking in circles...again, i await your 'talk' with young blk women so you can 'understand' this topic alittle better...and that's one to grow on Wink


back to the topic, maybe blk women wouldn't be manless if they dated military men and steve urkel types when they were younger like previous generations of blk women...oops, i think that sounds like it's 'related' to something else i said...oh well, i guess you can relate to this..cuz i'm talking in circles Roll Eyes

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 02, 2003 at 05:09 PM.]
Great topic; can i get back to it? I'd like to add my $0.02 even though it may echo previous posters. To me, this is just another excuse used by some women to justify their single status. In addition to the notion that she intimidates men, she has a bag of excuses as to why she is single and none of them make reference to her. It's either she is single by choice or she refuses to settle for less because the brothers she meets are less desirable and she is much better than that. I don't know about you, but I am suspicious of anyone who can't admit a fault of their own as if they are not human like the rest of us; it only foreshadows what to expect in a relationship with that person who is never wrong and fault-free. But of course, it's always easier to blame someone else. Alot of these women are single due to the fact that they are extremely and unrealistically selective so they only have themselves to blame; what warrants this wicked witch worthy of a good, decent man anyway? What nerve to blame another individual for not living up to their romance novel standards. Aint that a bit@#..... Is it necessarily true that in order for a sista to be intelligent, confident and secure that she must also take on a "high-maintenance" attitude? Can't you have one without the other? So it shouldn't surprise anyone that these types of sistas are alone. She keeps her heart securely locked away in a dungeons and dragons like treasure chest and promises that the man that can advance through all of the levels and break down all the walls will reap the benefit of her heart which is above all the rest. I would only probably take on a challenge like that with a sincere heart out of compassion; if I really felt sorry the woman and made the choice to prove to her that good men do exist; but only out of compassion, not if I felt directly challenged to do it by a woman who finds me intimidated by her if I do not. And all the while, any man that is not interested in the challenge of conquering all of her roadblocks and obstacles is lazy and only wants to settle for a woman that comes easy and convenient. Does the complexity of the chase determine the amount of love that a woman has to offer a man??? Do the women who play hardest to get turn out to be the better wives?? The only thing that she really has to offer a man besides sex is the challenge itself; this is the type of women that brothas put money on the panties to prove their mack to the fellas. This pre madonna says that she wants to get married, but on the contrary, shows anti-relationship traits of being cold, only thinking of her self, inconsiderate of others, arrogant, and simply not in need. No signs of surrender, humbleness, or vulnerability, just walking around in defense mode all robot like and emotionless; typical of a burnt woman. When I think of marriage I think of sharing, compromise, and support; all the qualities that the typical self-righteous person is alien to. Good looks only go so far; a brotha may want that body for the night but is he gonna want that foul attitude for life? Brothas are not known for our tolerance of nasty attitudes. What ever happened to a brotha just being simply turned off; why isn't that the case instead of brothas being intimidated?



Pride is utter poverty of the soul disguised as riches, imaginary light where in fact there is darkness
quote:
Originally posted by detroit1:
Great topic; can i get back to it? I'd like to add my $0.02 even though it may echo previous posters. To me, this is just another excuse used by some women to justify their single status. In addition to the notion that she intimidates men, she has a bag of excuses as to why she is single and none of them make reference to her. It's either she is single by choice or she refuses to settle for less because the brothers she meets are less desirable and she is much better than that. I don't know about you, but I am suspicious of anyone who can't admit a fault of their own as if they are not human like the rest of us; it only foreshadows what to expect in a relationship with that person who is never wrong and fault-free. But of course, it's always easier to blame someone else. Alot of these women are single due to the fact that they are extremely and unrealistically selective so they only have themselves to blame; what warrants this wicked witch worthy of a good, decent man anyway? What nerve to blame another individual for not living up to their romance novel standards. Aint that a bit@#..... Is it necessarily true that in order for a sista to be intelligent, confident and secure that she must also take on a "high-maintenance" attitude? Can't you have one without the other? So it shouldn't surprise anyone that these types of sistas are alone. She keeps her heart securely locked away in a dungeons and dragons like treasure chest and promises that the man that can advance through all of the levels and break down all the walls will reap the benefit of her heart which is above all the rest. I would only probably take on a challenge like that with a sincere heart out of compassion; if I really felt sorry the woman and made the choice to prove to her that good men do exist; but only out of compassion, not if I felt directly challenged to do it by a woman who finds me intimidated by her if I do not. And all the while, any man that is not interested in the challenge of conquering all of her roadblocks and obstacles is lazy and only wants to settle for a woman that comes easy and convenient. Does the complexity of the chase determine the amount of love that a woman has to offer a man??? Do the women who play hardest to get turn out to be the better wives?? The only thing that she really has to offer a man besides sex is the challenge itself; this is the type of women that brothas put money on the panties to prove their mack to the fellas. This pre madonna says that she wants to get married, but on the contrary, shows anti-relationship traits of being cold, only thinking of her self, inconsiderate of others, arrogant, and simply not in need. No signs of surrender, humbleness, or vulnerability, just walking around in defense mode all robot like and emotionless; typical of a burnt woman. When I think of marriage I think of sharing, compromise, and support; all the qualities that the typical self-righteous person is alien to. Good looks only go so far; a brotha may want that body for the night but is he gonna want that foul attitude for life? Brothas are not known for our tolerance of nasty attitudes. What ever happened to a brotha just being simply turned off; why isn't that the case instead of brothas being intimidated?



Pride is utter poverty of the soul disguised as riches, imaginary light where in fact there is darkness


i agree 100% good post bruh Wink

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
Vox, I am still waiting for you to clarify your macho crap to me!!!!!


No you did not post this one hour after your response to me, mad and impatient that you're "Still waiting." Can a brother have a life? A job? Damn.

quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
IS THIS SOMETHING ELSE IN THAT SHIT HEAD BRAIN OF YOURS OR CAN YOU SHOW ME THIS AS WELL.
SHOW ME ALL THESE THREADS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP


Red Face Red Face Red Face Henry, how can you refer to Negrospiritual's disagreement with me as taking "the life and spirit out of the discussion" and then come at me with some insanity like this??

I guess this must be what you mean by being able to say online what you wouldn't say in person. fool
quote:
Last point on this is that many of the brothers in my experience complaining about the lack of Black women interested in them, really translated to the Black women they think are attractive not finding them attractive and the Black women that do find them attractive, they don't find attractive.


Thank you. We always talk about a woman's desire for an attractive mate in terms of attitude and shallowness, but no one expects a man not to go for the dime every time.
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
you bring up many good points. Having brought of the 'drama addicts' and that man in college with this 'harem'. My question is...what man would want to date a woman that made those choices?? I mean, why would an educated, profesional 'desireable' man put himself thru that drama?? I think alot of women refuse to see themselves [or their friends] as not dateable or undesireable to the 'bro-folk' they desire. In all fairness here, compare these women to other races of women...are other race women so likely to be drama addicted??


But don't you find it interesting that the vast majority of the unwed mothers you refer to got that way because of black men who didn't marry them? Granted, not every mother wants to marry her baby's father, but you'll have a hard time proving that black women find themselves making babies alone. Where's the scorn for all the irresponsible black men who start relationships, make babies, and then abandon them both? How is it that only the mothers are the bad people? A single parent raising a kid is a better parent than the one who isn't there. And that beside the fact that we already know why some women make such bad choices. Too many of them have accepted the idea of a relationship as grabbing what man you can and holding on for dear life no matter what he does because you never know when you'll find another. It's a nasty situation for men and women because it teaches young people the wrong thing about what a real relationship is.

And the truth is that since so many of us are not having kids out of wedlock (and I seriously doubt that 70% figure) and so many more of us are making it to college, a single educated black man with no kids should have a hard time not finding a single educated black woman with no kids (unless educated bms now do all their dating in the hood). Remember, we outnumber you. But like Faheem said, maybe the black men who are annoyed with black women are really just annoyed with the women who didn't want them back (and completely ignoring the ones who did).

djona.

[This message was edited by djonmaila on December 02, 2003 at 10:58 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by djonmaila:
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
you bring up many good points. Having brought of the 'drama addicts' and that man in college with this 'harem'. My question is...what man would want to date a woman that made those choices?? I mean, why would an educated, profesional 'desireable' man put himself thru that drama?? I think alot of women refuse to see themselves [or their friends] as not dateable or undesireable to the 'bro-folk' they desire. In all fairness here, compare these women to other races of women...are other race women so likely to be drama addicted??


But don't you find it interesting that the vast majority of the unwed mothers you refer to got that way because of black men who didn't marry them? Granted, not every mother wants to marry her baby's father, but you'll have a hard time proving that black women find themselves making babies alone. Where's the scorn for all the irresponsible black men who start relationships, make babies, and then abandon them both? How is it that only the mothers are the bad people? A single parent raising a kid is a better parent than the one who isn't there. And that beside the fact that we already know why some women make such bad choices. Too many of them have accepted the idea of a relationship as grabbing what man you can and holding on for dear life no matter what he does because you never know when you'll find another. It's a nasty situation for men and women because it teaches young people the wrong thing about what a real relationship is.

And the truth is that since so many of us are not having kids out of wedlock (and I seriously doubt that 70% figure) and so many more of us are making it to college, a single educated black man with no kids should have a hard time _not_ finding a single educated black woman with no kids (unless educated bms now do all their dating in the hood). Remember, we outnumber you. But like Faheem said, maybe the black men who are annoyed with black women are really just annoyed with the women who didn't want them back (and completely ignoring the ones who did).

djona.

[This message was edited by djonmaila on December 02, 2003 at 10:58 PM.]



i'm sorry i didn't state this before...but i was born and raised in Baltimore..Pimlico middle school class of 1989 baltimore city college c/o 1993...so my view of the world is heavily 'tilted' towards my experiences. I understand that 'it takes two to tango', but like you said earlier, many women 'gladly' date men with babymomma drama and never been married to those 'old' mommas...when that new girl gets pregnant she is also a 'life parter' in his drama or his 'harem'. Yes, there are many blk women that are NOT a part of that cloudy life, but in bmore, you must admit, they are few and far between.

In reference to your other point about blk men and their 'choices' in dates'..it's the man's choice if he wants to date a particular 'type' of woman, types may include: race, body shape, age, etc....but it's the woman's choice if she chooses to accept him. Again, blk women, by in large, dont date urkel or military men. Next time they have one of those 'troop ships' returning from Iraq, look to see how many blk men are married to other races....this is the largest group of IR coupling in the country..more than the professional athletes, more than professional men, more than any other group. For more info on my stated opinion here, please read my posting to len [on this page i believe..it was posted 12-2-2003] about 'in the meantime...it explains it the best way i can. You can also do the same thing at a local university to you..go to the enginneering dept/pre-law/pre-med blk male student and see if they have a blk girlfriend or if they are 'heavily' pursued...you already know the answer right?? That's my point. Both groups are an 'untapped' market for single brofolk. 'UNtapped' on purpose I must add

you talked about dating, but remember that dating is suppose to be a process to 'narrow down' the final marriage choice. Women eliminate men, i.e. too short, too ugly, too poor, not educated, still lives with his mommy, etc...men also do the same for women, but i aint giving away the bro-folks secrets factors of elimination on here...women needs to figure that out on their own Big Grin

BTW, the 70% figure is from a thread topic on here that MBM posted...i believe it was from a new article, probably a very popular one, cuz I saw 'MR.' O'reilly reference that same stat in one of his FOX 'NEWS' rants...oReilly was talking about how the 70% OOW births and the over 50% single blk mom poverty rate is costing the govt too much money [extra billions or something he said]. I believe he was yakking about that 87 bill that Bush wanted for Iraq. I believe someone stated that that money should go to the American poor, and Oreilly said it already was. I dont like him, like the rest of the 'sane' world, but i guess he has a fanbase...probably the same one that Rush lameburgh has

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 03, 2003 at 04:39 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Len:
To RadioRaheem:

.....My objection is to anyone who makes excuses for their right to choose. The other message I'm conveying is if you desire someone outside your race have the courage to say it! That is the totality of my argument. Moreover, if you are right and firm in your convictions you do not have to degrade others to get your point across. That is always my argument.....

center>[This message was edited by Len on December 02, 2003 at 04:11 PM.]



I agree with Len about ones motives for IR dating; do it for a genuine interest in that person; not as an alternative or plan-b because you have been having problems with the opposite sex within your own race. It is a hasty generalization to condemn all black men or black women when no one has had a big enough sample of these groups to draw that kind of drastic conclusion. If you date outside your race, you shouldn't need an excuse or have to explain your intentions for falling in love with someone if your intentions are pure. Instead of all the justifying by blaming others, just say that you are into white boys or white girls. If you are honestly attracted to the pale skin and horse hair, say so without shame. I feel sorry for the poor white boy or white girl who is in fact only a 2nd choice for brothas and sistas that seek white folk only because they purposely exclude the opposite sex within their own race. Shouldn't these non-black persons have the right to know what made you consider them in the first place? Would you tell them the truth that you only considered them because you are having trouble dating within your own race? It's funny when I her of women who come up with the idea to date men of other races only because they find numerous problems with brothas. I've never heard of a sista who seeks a white guy because that's just what they prefer. White women who are into brothas want just that, a brotha, not a white, Hispanic, or Asian, only a black man will do for them and they can run down a list of things that appeal to them about brothas; it's a sincere, genuine interest. They don't have a problem with the men within their own race, they just prefer brothas. I once met an Asian airline stewardess from San Diego and she was looking to get together only with a black man; she said that in San Diego, the club is full of Asian women looking specifically for black men. Because of my own personal taste and preferences, I couldn't have an alternative soul-mate; I couldn't convince or force myself to find the same degree of beauty in white women that I do in sistas.
Ahh.. Finally someone who comprehends something I said sometime ago in a discussion with keylargo, when she proclaimed she will not limit herself to only dating Black men. I wrote in that discussion that we all have our limits and one's wiliness to exceed the limits others have set for themselves is no reason or justification for doing so. One must want to do said thing and find some satisfaction in doing said thing. In this case it is black men and women dating non blacks. Black men and women rarely if at all will just say I find white men and women attractive and this is why I date them. We are always bombarded with foolishness like, I will not limit myself, and you can not help who you fall in love with as if one just sees another human being and fall in love with him or her. One must make them self emotionally available and physically available to fall in love with any man or woman plus it takes time for love to occur. The number one excuse of course is they date non blacks because Black men or women are this way or that way and did this to me.

It seem that so many of us are so willing to only find fault with women and thus explain our actions as men as reactions to their actions. This is what I get from RadioRaheem, he finds very little if any fault at all with men but will continuously blame women for the actions taken by himself and men who think like him. Any honest assessment of the problems facing Black male and female relationship will find that both are as guilty of creating the problem as the other, not to mention the external problems that exist. It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but those of us that are not suffering from these things can not use these men and their situations as props to make it appear as we are so great in comparison to them because they are not the tools by which we should measure our success.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Any honest assessment of the problems facing Black male and female relationship will find that both are as guilty of creating the problem as the other, not to mention the external problems that exist. It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but those of us that are not suffering from these things can not use these men and their situations as props to make it appear as we are so great in comparison to them because they are not the tools by which we should measure our success.....




BRAVO!!! Well said Brother Faheem. I could not have said it any better. Some are so quick to blame the other when both could be at fault.
Yes Kudos to Bro Faheem!

IMO and sorry to say that but Black men who veer towards white women are some examples of the actions of mentally enslaved people. Did they do this for love? We would hope so, but I believe many cases hardly had to do anything with love. I think some black men may feel so bad about themselves that they marry white women to "increase their value" to themselves. Now, there are Black women who bleach their skin in order to look like the light skinned grimelles that the Black men chase after. If we do not like our won color, we will not like our people and certain parts of our culture. How do we get rid of this self-hatred is something we must continue to talk about. How do we educate our young boys to love black girls that may counter what western society is teaching them? Self-love is what we need, but how do we get it? Some of us will blame Black women until we are blue in the face. I don't believe this is the solution. We need to know how we can accept and love ourselves first and foremost!

Furthermore, I am very proud Haitian. I couldn't be more proud when my Black women whom I perceived as real survivors, empower me. I was very fortunate to have received all the knowledge they could have offered to any man. Thus, I couldn't be more committed to bring more grace and knowledge to my relationship with a Black woman.

AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on December 04, 2003 at 01:06 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:

It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but those of us...


Actually, gay men will be ballanced out by lesbians (both at about 10%, as I understand), so that homosexuality should not be a factor in any gender imballances. winkgrin


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


Cauca, Colombia



[This message was edited by ricardomath on December 07, 2003 at 05:46 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but..

Off topic but I deem crucial to say..
The statistics show that homosexuals are predominantly whites finding themselves in middle-class gay and lesbian community. Black gay men and lesbians are smaller in number. I will not for one second encourage Black men to practice homosexuality we already suffer every evil thing or idea at the hand of white people, we don't need more challenges trying to fit this bigoted and racist world. Peace.

AfroMan.
quote:
Originally posted by Afroman:
Yes Kudos to Bro Faheem!

IMO and sorry to say that but Black men who veer towards white women..........I think some black men may feel so bad about themselves that they marry white women to "increase their value" to themselves.


I know a lot of people in my family and others still are "color struck". Do you think this may play a part as getting a lighter skinned or white women will not only gain personl and public acceptance, but acceptance from the family first and foremost? All too often I hear parents telling the children how dark they are, broad their nose is, big their lips are, nappy their hair is etc. And heaven forbid they bring someone home just as dark..........



Catch
Self-hatred:
Comes in many forms. Generally, when we think of self-hatred we think of people who don't like the skin they're in. But self-hatred can show itself in blacks that hate other blacks with lighter or darker hues. In other words, they are color-struck. To love yourself is to love your entire race. You can talk pro-black until your tongue lapse, but if you don't embrace all people within the black race it's all in vain (IMO).

Back on Topic:
"A fighting spirit is important on the battlefield, but a gentler spirit is wanted on the home front."

From my experience I find this statement to be true. Sometimes a woman's public life requires her to be aggressive and demanding. But home life with a spouse for me at least is a different world. It doesn't require for me to be demanding or over-aggressive. So, I adjust with the environment. In all honesty my personality type is passive-aggressive. Therefore, it is easier for me to separate my public life from home. It seems this statement is saying personality types have a lot to do with how we interact with each other, and I agree.
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:

It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, _and homosexuals_ but those of us...


Actually, gay men will be ballanced out by lesbians (both at about 10%, as I understand), so that homosexuality should not be a factor in any gender imballances. winkgrin








i heard that same 10% number on a flyer given out during AIDSWALK 2000. The actual number is yet to be determined, esp. since so many gays are 'in the closet' and many Bi-Sexuals refuse to call themselves 'gay'

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 04, 2003 at 01:05 PM.]


[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 04, 2003 at 01:06 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:

It seem that so many of us are so willing to only find fault with women and thus explain our actions as men as reactions to their actions. This is what I get from RadioRaheem, he finds very little if any fault at all with men but will continuously blame women for the actions taken by himself and men who think like him. Any honest assessment of the problems facing Black male and female relationship will find that both are as guilty of creating the problem as the other, not to mention the external problems that exist. It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but those of us that are not suffering from these things can not use these men and their situations as props to make it appear as we are so great in comparison to them because they are not the tools by which we should measure our success.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem



i disagree with the bold section of your post. I found many 'faults' in those men of the harem and other 'bad boys', but the women, like it was posted by djonmaila, chose those guys any way, even after finding out about his past 'babymommas'. That was a 'choice', which is fine. What is 'unfine' however is the 'attempt' to 'seek out' Steve urkel as 'marriage material' after the fact. There is no 'benefits' for Urkel to date/marry a woman with that past. That's all I was saying.

***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
"Any honest assessment of the problems facing Black male and female relationship will find that both are as guilty of creating the problem as the other, not to mention the external problems that exist."

No truer words Faheem. A young lady or man should seek the person with substance. Quality is not limited (IMO) to a certain style of man or woman. You can be a "nerd" and have a personality defect -don't know how to relate to others. Or you can be a single woman with no kids, and have personality flaws to high heaven. The point is if one is having constant problems forming or keeping relationships. Instead of placing blame on others perhaps one should look within for the resolution.

If "everywhere" you go you have a problem then obviously the problem is with you.
quote:
Originally posted by Afroman:
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
It is true far too many black men are in prison, on drugs, and homosexuals but..

Off topic but I deem crucial to say..
The statistics show that homosexuals are predominantly whites finding themselves in middle-class gay and lesbian community. Black gay men and lesbians are smaller in number. I will not for one second encourage Black men to practice homosexuality we already suffer every evil thing or idea at the hand of white people, we don't need more challenges trying to fit this bigoted and racist world. Peace.

AfroMan.


Not trying to hijack the thread, but...

Nobody needs to encourage gays to be gay, any more than anybody needs to encourage straights to be straight. It comes natural. I suspect that any differences in the statistics on sexual orientation with respect to variables such as class, race, ethnicity, or culture, has more to do with the comfort level that people in various groups feel with being open about it vs being in the closet.

For gays who feel compelled to stay in the closet, I suspect that the level of acceptance that they anticipate within their own group is a more significant factor in their decision than the level of external acceptance. What they will mostly fear is rejection by their own family and friends.

A gay man or lesbian is doing nobody any favors by denying (to themselves or to others) their sexuality, and becoming involved in straight marriages with unsuspecting partners, and we are doing nobody any favors by encouraging them to remain closeted. Least of all their opposite-sex partners. It is a recipe for disaster. Eek


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


Cauca, Colombia



[This message was edited by ricardomath on December 07, 2003 at 05:47 AM.]
Radio, you still fail to see the duality of the situations you are speaking about. These Steve Urkel characters you are speaking about Black women overlooking are no different than the women of the same ilk as the Steve Urkel types. These Black women are over looked by the Steve Urkels and everyone else, however unlike the Steve Urkels when they are done with school and established they doors are not being beating down because their black male counterpart that experienced the same thing are using their experience as an excuse to court, date and marry women from other races which leaves these women with choices like being alone, marrying men who are not as educated as they are and make less money than they do (so-called marrying down) and or following the negro men who have used their experienced as a reason to court, date and marry non Black women.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Radio, you still fail to see the duality of the situations you are speaking about. These Steve Urkel characters you are speaking about Black women overlooking are no different than the women of the same ilk as the Steve Urkel types. These Black women are over looked by the Steve Urkels and everyone else, however unlike the Steve Urkels when they are done with school and established they doors are not being beating down because their black male counterpart that experienced the same thing are using their experience as an excuse to court, date and marry women from other races which leaves these women with choices like being alone, marrying men who are not as educated as they are and make less money than they do (so-called marrying down) and or following the negro men who have used their experienced as a reason to court, date and marry non Black women.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem


steve urkel has his standards too. Why can't he go after what he wants?? I understand my argument is a parallel one, i got many of my points from the points many women say. They feel that there is a man shortage, many so..maybe not...but they can't ignore the men that they didn't want ot grow with and later want. These realities must be considered when single women like the ones in the story you post are considered 'feared' by men
O.K. I was gonna just ignore this whole thread. Cause I saw where it was going from the beginning and I don't like running i circles over and over again. It's the same old thing, Repeatedly. A bunch of poster(like Djonmaila) putting up there little "wacky facts" About brothas most are just opinions and stereotypes,(no, black women are NOT the only women to be better educated than their men. All women in this country are better educated,and the difference between us is like what, one point,if even. Go look up Nykkii's "black facts" post.)Faheem would come along and do his little bobblehead doll routine, and blindly nod along to whatever's being said, so he can keep his "good blackman" standing still intact. No matter how lopsided, biased,or untrue. Or regurgitate some 6 month old Essence magazine article. Or just make up some lopsided whatever on his own.(Thank you Ricardomath for trying to bring some symmetry.) Then RR and Detroit1 would at least try to bring a different perspective. But being that most of these threads are about edification and not education, that would fall flat. Then RR, because of his moderately sarcastic tone, and refusal to stand down, would come just short of being labeled a blasphemous heretic, who should be boiled in his own pudding, or burned at the stake or something. So I was like "nah forget it." Then I saw this:
quote:
Originally posted by Afroman:
Yes Kudos to Bro Faheem!

IMO and sorry to say that but Black men who veer towards white women are some examples of the actions of mentally enslaved people. Did they do this for love? We would hope so, but I believe many cases hardly had to do anything with love. I think some black men may feel so bad about themselves that they marry white women to "increase their value" to themselves. Now, there are Black women who bleach their skin in order to look like the light skinned grimelles that the Black men chase after. If we do not like our won color, we will not like our people and certain parts of our culture. How do we get rid of this self-hatred is something we must continue to talk about. How do we educate our young boys to love black girls that may counter what western society is teaching them? Self-love is what we need, but how do we get it? Some of us will blame Black women until we are blue in the face. I don't believe this is the solution. We need to know how we can accept and love ourselves first and foremost!

Furthermore, I am very proud Haitian. I couldn't be more proud when my Black women whom I perceived as real survivors, empower me. I was very fortunate to have received all the knowledge they could have offered to any man. Thus, I couldn't be more committed to bring more grace and knowledge to my relationship with a Black woman.

AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on December 04, 2003 at 01:06 AM.]

So all I can say is KUDOS to you Afroman!! This has got to be the dumbest thing I read all month.

1)Yours, like a couple of other post I read, make it sound like Little black boys have to be specially trained to like sistas. Like if they're not, they'll go feral and revert to there natural tendacies and chase any anything white.

2)You make it sound like if a bro. is with a light skinned sis. it can only be because he brainwashed or hate ourselves!? Like a lightskinned sista can have no redeemable quality, or if she does, black men don't see, or care anyway. All brothas are looking for is a loophole to white women. And I've no idea what a "grimelle" is but this is one of my pet peeves right here. People always try to be on a pan-African, pro black, unity tip, then turn around and say something stupid. It's crap like this that's making some of our lightskinned family feel like they need "lightskinned people.com." Do you even believe this crap or are you just trying to show how "conscience" you are. And who told you sistas bleach there skin for us? Who are you "The Amazing Kreskin." Just stick to cut and paste.

******************************
Then I heard another voice say:"come out of her,my people,so that you will not share her sins,so that you will not receive her plagues, for her sins have piled up to heaven and YAH has remembered her crimes,give her back as much as she has given;pay her back double what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup. Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself."(Revelations 18:4-7)
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
O.K. I was gonna just ignore this whole thread. Cause I saw where it was going from the beginning and I don't like running i circles over and over again. It's the same old thing, Repeatedly.
My brother from the land of Logic and Common Sense, I agree with you one hundred percent why bother to post anything I have been asking myself? I am going to do one better. I am not wasting my time and energy stating my views or opinion on this board EVER again based on what I have observed following this thread. I believe in future answering with one liners is best unless I believe I am dealing with someone I suspect is GENIUNELY looking for answers.

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Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
O.K. I was gonna just ignore this whole thread. Cause I saw where it was going from the beginning and I don't like running i circles over and over again. It's the same old thing, Repeatedly.
My brother from the land of Logic and Common Sense, I agree with you one hundred percent why bother to post anything I have been asking myself? I am going to do one better. I am not wasting my time and energy stating my views or opinion on this board EVER again based on what I have observed following this thread. I believe in future answering with one liners is best unless I believe I am dealing with someone I suspect is GENIUNELY looking for answers.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/BlackNation.html



i agree. It seems like some of the posters here are not looking for a 'healthy debate', no...more of an attempt for validation of their fake 'DIVA' status or other insecurities. Before this, I didn't know Blk women were perfect and beyond discussion. I guess if i spent the whole thread worshipping blk women, i'd have nothing but hugs and highfives here. But do we really need TWO faheems?? rotflmao


If SOME people are 'hellbend' on one side of any issue, why even attempt to debate them? Why do those people even enter a debate?? It would not matter how many internet links or statistical facts one posts, to many, their mind is made up..and you are trifling for even disagreeing with them. Can't their be exceptions to their 'rules' or point of view??.

I'll keep posting here [at africanamerica.org], but not 'go to battle' over an issue, esp. when I answer questions that the other side has and my questions are ignored...only personal attack are returned as replies. I find it strange that two women stated that they either would not limit themselves to african american men or stopped dating them all together based off of observations from a few...i never went that far to boycott blk women, but seem to have started a riot here, nonetheless. Where is their 'comments' about what they said?? Maybe that'll be on page 5 or 6 or 7 of this thread...I guess..but then again Blk women are perfect, so how could blk women go against one of their own ?? Confused

I guess this message is a good format to post 'safe' topics like...'child abuse...for or against??' or 'would you encourage your kids to use drugs??'...so long as everyone is on one side of the issue, but when one tries to argue with logic versus emotion, we see the end result in a thread like this.

Maybe all men here should take a vow and say that we refuse to take the opposite side of 'unpopular' or 'hot button' topic so not to 'piss off' the womenfolk. Maybe women then should openly admit their insecurities and post them as a preface, like displayed here with a 23% OOW birth rate for white women stat that came from the left field bleachers to say the least[was that the topic?? I dunno Confused] or just the general hate of brother's having the right to love whoever, for whatever reason other than the one the woman says [i.e. he's dating her because he can't handle a strong blk woman!!!...the logically minded person may wonder...why does a blk woman need to be 'handled'?? like zoo animals?? circus animals??...but i digress ]Big Grin . For example, in the caucasion coochie thread or other the Kobe postings, the original poster could have said 'i really get angry about blk men dating/marrying white women because I feel ugly and unwanted...I have a sense of entitlement to blk men and when i see those men dating outside it break my heart because I feel that they owe me and other blk women dates and love and marriage' as a preface to that topic.

Those are my recommendations to make this board a 'happy smiley' place full of respect and understanding. Big Grin

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Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

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'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream

[This message was edited by RadioRaheem on December 05, 2003 at 09:35 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
What I have found and what many of these woman have yet to discover, is that the skills that make one successful in the church, community or workplace are not the skills that make one successful in a relationship. Linear thinking, self-reliance, structured goals and direct actions assist in getting assignments done. It helps to organize church or club activities and in positioning oneself for a raise. But relationship building requires different skills. It requires making decisions that not only gratify you, but also satisfy others. It means doing things that will keep the peace rather than achieve the goal. Sometimes it means creating the peace in the first place.
Oftentimes when dealing with men you will have to sacrifice being right in order to enjoy being loved. Being acknowledged as the head of household is an especially important thing for many black men, since their manhood is so often actively challenged everywhere else. Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to career or their narrow concepts of same, that their entire personalities project an "I don't need a man" message. Consequently they end up without one. An interested man may be attracted but soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Going to graduate school is a good goal and an option that previous generations of blacks have not had. But sometimes the achieving women will place her boyfriend so low on her list of priorities that his interest wanes. Between work, school and homework, she's seldom "there" for him on the outset when a man should develop a commitment to a woman. She's too busy to prepare him a home-cooked meal or to be a listening ear because she is so occupied with her own concerns. Soon he uses her only for uncommitted sex since to him she appears unavailable for anything else. Blind to the past she plays in her mind and ends up thinking. "Men only want one thing." And she decides she's better off with the degree than the friendship.


Okay, now reverse the pronouns in this statement. Would a man, who is trying to better himself, put up with such whininess from a woman? "You don't spend time with me. I'm low on your priority list. You don't cook for me or listen to my day. Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah." Exactly what do you think the outcome would be?

As to college women not wanting the "steve urkels" - could it be the steve urkels, who are 5s, are going after sistahs who are a dime? How many non-dime sistahs are the urkels overlooking?
Phoenix, I understand your points and agree with them and I have said such throughout this thread, however you have mistaken the words of Tina Lester the author of the article to be mine. I am the original poster of the article but I did not write it. Maybe the quote feature simply grabs the original poster of whatever a user is quoting thus putting my name as being the original poster would make sense but for the sake of clarity it should be made known those are not my words.

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"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem

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