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Originally Posted by Cholly:


No one considers him a villian but he's not helping his case being depicted as one because he beginning the second term of Obama's presidency the very same way he started and ended the first term.......complaining and bitchin' alongside Tavis about the President not doing absoluty nothing or anything about the African American community, poor people and poverty when they have, probably more than anyone else, the knowledge and unique ability to get direct assess to the President and strongly discuss their agendas and all their researched data findings from last year's poverty tour.



Which leads directly back to my question for the Smiley-West supporters .... who, in fact, are soooooo supportive that they consistently do the same exact (ineffective/unproductive) thing .....


Why ... if the President is NOT addressing/providing solutions for "the poor" in America ... and HAS NOT (in their opinion) done so for the past four years .... and (also in their opinion) isn't GOING TO do anything to address the poverty situation ....


WHY IN THE HELL DON'T THEY GO TO (bug, harass, complain to, verbally dog out, criticize, shame, put on blast, publicly chastise) SOMEBODY ELSE WHO CAN AND/OR WILL??   


For TWO people who are supposed to be among Black America's most intelligent, educated, well-read, well-known, fiercest allies and supporters, advocates and defenders ... so knowledgeable about the subject that they travel around the country all year long telling everybody who will listen about the magnitude of this problem .... 


For FOUR YEARS they have continued to stagnate on this issue ... preferring instead to bang their heads against the same (he won't do nothing) brick wall .... continuing an effort that has netted NO RESULTS (in their opinion) ... for a problem SO pressing, important, devastating-to-Blackfolks, and in-need-of-IMMEDIATE-attention ....


Yet they won't/can't/haven't/aren't smart enough? ... to find another solution ... another way to confront/address/solve the problem in FOUR YEARS of "bringing it to the forefront" .... haven't been able to find anybody else to talk to, ask for help, bring together, find/implement solutions, raise money from those who HAVE IT, get the community involved, interact with/organize/convene local, city, and/or state other BLACK elected officials to address the problem within their own communities ....


IF ... and that's a big azz IF .... their goal is REALLY to try to find a way alleviate the suffering of Black people and the issue of poverty???  


'Cause instead ... they're staying on the SAME (go nowhere, do nothing) track, employing the SAME (go nowhere, do nothing) tactic of bitching, moaning, complaining, confabbing with the enemy ... adding enemies to the list, since they've alienated all of their previous "friends" and/or "allies", "brothers and sisters in the struggle" and everybody else who has declared their whining, cry-baby, grown-ass-men-acting-like- 5-year-olds, crusade to demonize the President at every turn as "toxic" and "ineffective" ....


Yet ....that's the ONLY thing they've be able to do, over and over again, for  FOUR YEARS in a row .... with, apparently, ANOTHER FOUR of the SAME THING coming .... not deviating from what has been a FAILED plan to do ANYTHING for poor, poverty-stricken Black people ... except to tell them that the President isn't helping them ... and, apparently, neither will they,  


If they are truly two of the best that Black America has to offer .... or is being offered to Black America .... then we are up $hit's creek ... without the boat, the paddles, any water to float on, no food, no nourishment and no toilet paper.  


And we aren't going anywhere ... anytime soon.  

Originally Posted by Cholly:

Quote by ER: "So .... what's the difference between DRONES that have killed innocent civilians, women and children .... and the (flesh and blood) American SOLDIERS that have ALSO (often intentionally) killed innocent civilians, women and children?"

The difference?

Less green body bags and American flag draped coffins of dead American troops who will more than likely, return back home to their families and loved ones probably physically and/or mentally wounded/injured or maybe not harmed in any way at all...... but not dead.



And when I ask myself that exact same question .... that's the exact same answer that I come up with, too, Cholly!!    And ... interestingly, I can't seem to get anybody else to give me another one!!  Which is WHY I keep asking.


As a non-military person ... I have to say that I have been ASTOUNDED at the number of military trials/court martials/news reports of "rogue" soldiers that .... for whatever mental-breakdown-induced reasons ... have gone out and literally just committed murder of innocent civilians during the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan .... just in the past couple of years. 


And while those incidents are traumatic ... and rare ... they are indeed the WORST possible scenarios created by the conflict of daily warfare.  


But the number of those incidents aren't even on the MAP of counting all of the real-life, real-time, heat-of-the-moment incidences where our soldiers are compelled to make split-second decisions that lead to (multiple) "accidental" killings of innocent civilians, women and children  that are in the crossfire, villages, wrong-place-wrong-time, situations .... that make then "casualties of war."


And, SADLY, in EVERY war we've ever engaged in .... these types of deaths have been the norm ... being performed by our living, breathing, human being soldiers .... that also have to carry that horror with them for the rest of their lives!!!  A circumstance that "coming home" does not erase from their hearts and minds .... just because they return "to the real world."  It is damage that has caused a multitude of homeless, mentally-ill veterans throughout our nation.


And I won't even talk about the number of soldiers who have themselves been killed and come home in flag-draped coffins from being put in harms way as a circumstance of war.  


In WAR ... people are gonna die.  The right people ... the wrong people ... they're still PEOPLE.  And, before it's over, with CONCRETE CERTAINTY ... far too many - innocent and guilty - will end up dead.  That's just an indisputable fact.


For me .... the LESS U.S. troops that die (in war), the better.  And, of course, the LESS innocent civilians that die, the better.  But numbers of BOTH are going to die ... in an armed conflict.  Period.


IMO, the use of "drones" are saving more lives than they are taking away.  And I'm pretty sure there's documented proof of that fact.  That's the bottom line.


And it seems to me that those opposed to the use of drones are, consequently,  more in favor of the deaths of American soldiers.  Or ... at the very least ... more in favor of putting them in harms way and the high probably of being killed/wounded/made mentally-ill.  'Cause that's what's gonna happen, regardless.  And, there's just no other way you can have it both ways. 

A Question For Both Tavis Smiley And Cornel West

Filed under: Featured,Headlines | 
Tavis Smiley Cornel West photo

Tavis Smiley and Cornel West


AFRICANGLOBE – Mr. Tavis Smiley, do you intend to return the Millions of dollars that you reportedly made from herding poor Black people and Hispanics into the Wells Fargo “Ghetto Loan” scam to the people who lost their money and homes? And Dr. West, In your learned opinion, what is the appropriate course of action for your friend and associate to take, in accordance with the “prophetic tradition?”


A discrimination lawsuit filed by the Department of Justice, and several articles, including one seeded on Newsvine entitle, “Tavis Smiley – “Ghetto Loan” Peddler for Wells Fargo,” closely associates PBS talk show host, Tavis Smiley, with the Wells Fargo Bank scam targeting poor and middle-class Black and Hispanic borrowers. The article quotes Kelvin Boston and Keith Corbett, of the Center for Responsible Lending, as calling Tavis Smiley “the big draw” of the Wells Fargo scam. Specifically, the article states the following:

“Smiley was the keynote speaker, and the big draw, according to [Kelvin] Boston [host of “Moneywise”] and Keith Corbett, executive vice president of the Center for Responsible Lending, who attended two of the seminars. Smiley would charge up the audience — and rattle the Wells Fargo executives in attendance — by launching into a story about how he hated banks, and how they used to refuse to lend him money for his real estate projects in Compton, Calif., and elsewhere… But what appeared on the surface as a way to help Black borrowers build wealth was actually just the opposite, according to a little-noticed explanation of the “Wealth Building” seminar strategy, contained in a lawsuit recently filed by Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan.


“Wells’ plan for the seminars all along was to target Black borrowers for higher-cost subprime mortgages, not for wealth-building, the suit charged. And the seminars were a part of the bank’s overall illegal and discriminatory practice of steering Black and Hispanic borrowers into riskier and more expensive loans, the suit said.”


Subsequent to the law suit, Richard Prince reported in The Washington Independent that Tavis Smiley issued a statement indicating that he would sever all ties with Wells Fargo until charges that the company steered minorities into higher-rate loans are resolved. The article went on to say,

“Wells Fargo sponsored Smiley’s radio show on Public Radio International, and underwrote the annual C-Span-televised “State of the Black Union” conference that Smiley organizes. Smiley’s foundation also distributed Wells Fargo materials to young people at foundation events, he told Journal-isms.


‘“I cut everything off with Wells Fargo,’ Smiley declared. He said the move cost ‘a lot of money’; he said he did not know how much.”

On July 12, 2012 Charlie Savage reported in the New York Times that Wells Fargo Bank agreed to pay $175 million to settle the discrimination suit which, according to the Department of Justice, targeted over 30,000 Black and Hispanic borrowers for subprime loans with a higher interest rate than for similarly situated White borrowers between 2004 and 2009.


What makes it particularly ironic that Tavis Smiley would be associated with this scheme to target poor and middle-class minorities is that Smiley is the primary promoter of what he calls “The Poverty Tour,” along with his friend and associate, former Princeton professor, Cornel West. During the tour, on their joint radio talk show, and on numerous media appearances, Smiley and West have gained a reputation for being President Obama’s harshest critics, indicating that the president is not sufficiently focused, and “accountable,” to the nation’s poor and minority community.


In a statement by Wells Fargo put out after the bank agreed to a settlement of $175 Million, they said that while not admitting to any wrong doing, the Wells Fargo agreed to a settlement of the law suit because the bank felt that it was the right thing to do.


CNNMONEY quoted Mike Held, president of Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, as saying, “Wells Fargo is settling this matter because we believe it is in the best interest of our team members, customers, communities and investors to avoid a long and costly legal fight, and to instead devote our resources to continuing to contribute to the country’s housing recovery.”


The settlement includes Wells Fargo paying the Black and Hispanic victims of discrimination $125 million in compensation, and an additional $50 million in down-payment assistance to borrowers in the affected communities.

So the question that remains is, if Wells Fargo Bank feels that paying compensating to the poor and middle-class victims of this scam is the right thing to do, shouldn’t Tavis Smiley, the most strident advocate of “accountability” and fervent crusader for the interest of the poor, feel obliged to do the same?


We’d like to put that question to Smiley’s friend and associate, Dr. Cornel West. What do you think your good friend and associate should do, Dr. West? What does the “prophetic tradition” dictate is the proper course of action?

We’ll be anxiously awaiting your response.


By; Eric L. Wattree


So Dr. West should be made to answer a question about a sponsorship relationship Tavis had with Wells Fargo, who are the ones (not Tavis) who made loans (as all the banks did) based on fraudulent terms?


That sadly confirms the quality of writing that is acceptable on AfricaWeb.


And as is the trend, many are tying desperately to not deal directly with the issues raised by Dr West.

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

So Dr. West should be made to answer a question about a sponsorship relationship Tavis had with Wells Fargo, who are the ones (not Tavis) who made loans (as all the banks did) based on fraudulent terms?


That sadly confirms the quality of writing that is acceptable on AfricaWeb.


And as is the trend, many are tying desperately to not deal directly with the issues raised by Dr West.

Indeed. None of that has anything to do with Dr. West is saying here. Oh but, clearly what he's saying is irrelevant.

I posted this because I thought it was an interesting article, not only because of the author's somehow trying to pin Wellsfargo's unethical and racist lending practices on Tavis Smiley (for M.C.'ing an event, seminars, etc., of all things), but, also how there appears to be an African American machine behind the destruction of the the reputation of both Smiley and West.  


How was Smiley to know that Wellsfargo was going to engage in such practices ahead of time, before the rest of the America, the Justice Department, even the borrowers knew?  How was Smiley to know ahead of time that so many African Americans and Hispanics/Latinos were going to accept enormous interest rates and mortgages with balloon payments tacked onto their contracts?  How was Smiley to know ahead of time that Wellsfargo was going to sell jim-crow mortgages to African Americans and Hispanics in this day and age, and while the market was actually booming at the time?


How can West be figured into a demand for Smiley to be psychic regarding Wellsfargo's ulterior motives in lending to African Americans and Hispanics?


It seems to me that Tavis Smiley's name, reputation and convictions were being used by Wellsfargo to relax or eliminate any skepticism that may have been raised by African Americans/Hispanics in the first place.  


Regardless to how anyone feels about Smiley (and West), the fault lies with Wellsfargo, and Wellsfargo alone, because what Wellsfargo did was deliberately target Americans with the least knowledge of the lending industry/interest rates and the most desperate to purchase a piece of the "American dream".  


Wellsfargo, has had a history of unscrupulous or questionable lending practices, dating back to long before this recent market crisis, and long before Smiley had ever arrived to a position of national/African American influence.


The African American and Latino/Hispanic focus should be on Wellsfargo for their deliberate racist lending scheme against African Americans and Hispanics/Latinos' pursuit of the the 'American dream', i.e., using disingenuous practices of only and specifically targeting African Americans and Hispanics/Latinos to deliberately rob them of their piece of the 'American dream' and with what foreclosure does to one's credit history, any future hopes of ever owning property in America.

Last edited by sunnubian

  Yeah but!  If Tavis was detailed and adamant about knit-picking essential information the WAY he does my President....he would have exposed the hidden agenda of Wells Fargo in the interim,  So...he doesn't GET a pass on that from me,    If he used his research skills and critical thinking tools to investigate those he is supporting, the WAY he does my President in his criticism of him,......his NAME wouldn't be highlighted in this unethical lending scam right now cuz he would have FOUND out earlier on what he was getting himself into.    Like I always say whatEVER goes around eventually will come back and BITE you in the in Tavis' case.  And it's MORE to come.  Trust me.


Now...I'm not talking about or directing my comments regarding where the fault lies...I'm talking specifically about having the ability to recognize when you have been bamboolzed.    And if Tavis was SMART [like he likes to project to the public with his fast talking] he would have DONE his homework regarding Wells Fargo intentions and STAYED in the loop with them every step of the way to ensure that the people who are getting involved [by LOOKING to him for guidance] in this financial venture based soley on his recommendation would have been spared any type of  "red lining" bank scams.  But!  Tavis trusted Wells Fargo executives. Oooooh yeah he did.   He trused massa's kids.  He trusted that Wells Fargo was gonna do the RIGHT thing[when they had no history of doing the right thing in the black/hispanic community].  Tavis has given these bottom feeders MORE trust and consideration than he has given my President-who from the very beginning of his presidency ran a transparent office!  So I'm GLAD this happened to Tavis-exposing his vulnerabilities-making him more HUMAN than the ficitional arrogant-know-it-all- can't-nothing-hide-from-him azzwipe.  Cuz he and his partner in crime actually in the real world have done nothing but act like super ni&&er zeroes fighting the cause [against my president]for the helpless kneegrow population...who NEVER really ASKED for their help in the first place.    And....who's next on the choppin' board?  That would be....hum.  Lemme see.  Brotha West!  And I can't wait.     Cuz where I stand....those two are the REAL spooks sitting by the white house door. Cuz it wasn't right what they've doing to my President for over 4 years...shit is NOW backfiring on their azzes left and right.    So that's what Tavis gets.  Trader!   But!  Just.  Sayin.

Originally Posted by sunnubian:

I posted this because I thought it was an interesting article, not only because of the author's somehow trying to pin Wellsfargo's unethical and racist lending practices on Tavis Smiley (for M.C.'ing an event, seminars, etc., of all things), but, also how there appears to be an African American machine behind the destruction of the the reputation of both Smiley and West.  



You know .... while I would agree that trying to put blame on Tavis for knowingly trying to steer Black people into subprime loans is a helluva STRETCH ....  ... I don't see it as any type of 'conspiracy' to ruin him ... at least not in that way.


IMO ... anything Tavis did in the way of promoting Wells Fargo he did (strictly) for the money!!    Wells Fargo was paying his bills (underwriting his radio show) ... and I've no doubt that's all the "encouragement" he needed to be one of their most enthusiastic supporters!!  He does have millions ... and for good reason!


And there's no need to put forth a "plan" to ruin his reputation within the African American community.  He did THAT all by himself!!  And did a bang-up job of it, too!!  He successfully alienated himself - albeit, after, perhaps, what I thought was some overzealous "hate" being thrown his way!!  But, instead of him putting on his "big boy boxers" and sucking it up ... he took them off and decided to slam them on the floor and throw a tantrum on them.  


What this article sounds like to me is the SAME type of bitter, pissed off, "sour grapes" against him by a (probably younger) reporter .... who spews off at the mouth with ridiculous, unfounded and misinformed accusations .... the same way he is doing to President Obama .... and as is the attitude of many of today's younger generation!!  


It's kinda the norm today to get pissed off at somebody ... and just say the first thing that sounds good against them .... whether or not there's any proof or rationality, or knowledge about the subject being discussed!!    While it definitely makes for a good headline to suggest Tavis give back millions of dollars to ... whoever this person thinks is supposed to get it!! .... it's irrational to me to surmise that Tavis 'was in on it' as a scam .... or that he would have been smart enough to recognize it as one .... or that he would even look past the "I'm making millions of dollars here" aspect of it to suspect that he may have been being used!!  


To me ...trying to blame Tavis for what Wells Fargo (intentionally) did to Black people and home ownership is about as ludicrous as blaming President Obama for attacking Libya!!  While both participated in a questionable activity .... neither one was the 'ringleader" for making it happen!!  


But that didn't stop people from believing whatever they wanted to believe.  

To me ...trying to blame Tavis for what Wells Fargo (intentionally) did to Black people and home ownership is about as ludicrous as blaming President Obama for attacking Libya!!  While both participated in a questionable activity .... neither one was the 'ringleader" for making it happen!! 

False equivalence like a mofo!


I am not aware, nor have I seen presented ANYWHERE where Tavis Smiley has ANY authority to make any decision regarding  the corporation known as Wells Fargo.


Pres. Obama has the authority to order or resend orders in matters involving the US military & CIA.


Obama issued orders regarding Libya.....what where they?


Show and prove where Tavis even has the ability to instruct Wells Fargo to do anything


LOL I'll give you props ER for staying true to your tactics. 


You admit the bogus nature of a charge than quickly try to slide an analogy using Obama to both validate the silliness of the prior claim while  "clearing" Obama from what people accuse him of.


Of course this falls apart when you examine President Obama's own words and actions.......


which brings us right back to Dr West's remarks which have YET to be directly addressed in this thread (except by Dissident).




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