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quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:

Assuming that you are implying.... Shariah law is inherently negative...



The way that you phrased this prompted me to remember some uproar over the possible institution of Sharia law in parts of england a year or so ago, then it made me have to go a-googling (as ATP says).

Quite frankly i had always associated Sharia law with the extreme repression of women including lashings and stonings, and thought "when is it not inherently negative?"... but it's actually broader than that, and from what i've read so far, influenced english common law and american civil law...

who knew? Confused

thanks for the prompt 19
Khalliqa:

quote:
"Depends upon which interpretation of the law you are referring.. "

I was refering to the interpretation of which women are not allowed to choose their own husbands, dress as they please, or travel on her own.
Where her evidence given in court is equal half of that of a man's evidence, where she is practally unable to participate in society by herself because she is not allowed to have contact with another man unless her husband or relative is present
Where she must dress in a way that only her face and hands are exposed, and where her husband is legally allowed to beat her if he feels she is disobedient.

This is the interpertation I was refering to. Are there other interpertations where the above listed does not apply?

quote:
"I do not understand why Jim Crow laws would be introduced... "

I introduced Jim Crow laws because IMO they the closest thing that can be compared to the injustice of Sharia laws

Kevin
I don't think that those two oppressions can in any way be adequately compared. For one thing, Jim Crow was an attack upon both men and women, while Sharia law is imposed on women by men. Also, the laws of Jim Crow themselves were not as heinously violent and vicious - that was the work of the evilness of individual human beings - while the Sharia laws themselves can encourage and encompass violence against women.

There's really no comparison for the complete domination of women in MANY cultures .. not just extremist Islamic ones. That's a phenomenon that's just really quite mind-boggling to me!
Ebony Rose:

quote:
“I don't think that those two oppressions can in any way be adequately compared. For one thing, Jim Crow was an attack upon both men and women, while Sharia law is imposed on women by men.”

The way I see it, it is a matter of those in power; weather it be Muslim men or white people; imposing unjust laws upon those without power weather they be Muslim women or black people.
quote:
“Also, the laws of Jim Crow themselves were not as heinously violent and vicious - that was the work of the evilness of individual human beings”
The same can be said about Sharia laws.
“while the Sharia laws themselves can encourage and encompass violence against women.”
I am sure those citizens of Birmingham who had to face police dogs and fire hoses under the oppression of Bull Connor will agree; the same can be said for Jim Crow
quote:
“There's really no comparison for the complete domination of women in MANY cultures .. not just extremist Islamic ones. That's a phenomenon that's just really quite mind-boggling to me!”

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one huh;

kevin
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Ebony Rose:

quote:
“I don't think that those two oppressions can in any way be adequately compared. For one thing, Jim Crow was an attack upon both men and women, while Sharia law is imposed on women by men.”

The way I see it, it is a matter of those in power; weather it be Muslim men or white people; imposing unjust laws upon those without power weather they be Muslim women or black people.
quote:
“Also, the laws of Jim Crow themselves were not as heinously violent and vicious - that was the work of the evilness of individual human beings”
The same can be said about Sharia laws.
“while the Sharia laws themselves can encourage and encompass violence against women.”
I am sure those citizens of Birmingham who had to face police dogs and fire hoses under the oppression of Bull Connor will agree; the same can be said for Jim Crow
quote:
“There's really no comparison for the complete domination of women in MANY cultures .. not just extremist Islamic ones. That's a phenomenon that's just really quite mind-boggling to me!”

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one huh;

kevin


I think we need to agree that we disagree on EVERYTHING, kevin1122!! Big Grin

It will just make life a lot easier that way. Smile
But there is some similarity: Both are systems of law and or traditions which provide(d) guidelines for settling disputes and how one must conduct themselves.

Sharia law actually is broader than just its dictates regarding women although that is what we focus on when we hear about heinous stories involving women under sharia law.

But, I could see how this question might be asked since the end result is that a group of people are restricted under some interpretations of Sharia and a group of people are restricted under jim crow laws...
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
But there is some similarity: Both are systems of law and or traditions which provide(d) guidelines for settling disputes and how one must conduct themselves.

Sharia law actually is broader than just its dictates regarding women although that is what we focus on when we hear about heinous stories involving women under sharia law.

But, I could see how this question might be asked since the end result is that a group of people are restricted under some interpretations of Sharia and a group of people are restricted under jim crow laws...


Okay ... then YOU answer him, then! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
Do you think the women who live under Islamic Sharia law have it worse off than the black Americans who lived under Jim Crow?

when you imply women without rights, why do you think injustice and suffering can or should be compared in the way "who is worse off"?


yeah I would like to know the reason for the question...

It's kinda like asking,

Q:"Which was worse, Jim Crow or Apartheid?"...

A:"Who gives a damn, they were both F-ed up!"

It just seems saddistic in a way to even ask who had it worse...

Not to mention...

quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Quite frankly i had always associated Sharia law with the extreme repression of women including lashings and stonings, and thought "when is it not inherently negative?"... but it's actually broader than that, and from what i've read so far, influenced english common law and american civil law...
Ebony Rose

quote:
"I think we need to agree that we disagree on EVERYTHING, kevin1122!!

It will just make life a lot easier that way."

Excellent point Ebony! If you don't mind, I'm gonna write that one down and post it on my refrigerator; that way I won't forget it.

quote:
Oshun Auset:
"I would like to know the reason for the question...

It's kinda like asking,

Q:"Which was worse, Jim Crow or Apartheid?"...

A:"Who gives a damn, they were both F-ed up!"

It just seems saddistic in a way to even ask who had it worse..."

I wouldn't go so far as call it saddistic, but let me put it this way: If aparthide were still going on today, and I suspected there were those who frenquet this site who were outraged by Jim Crow, but not Aparthide, I would compare Aparthide to Jim Crow, hoping for a responce from them.

Kevin
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I wouldn't go so far as call it saddistic, but let me put it this way: If aparthide were still going on today, and I suspected there were those who frenquet this site who were outraged by Jim Crow, but not Aparthide, I would compare Aparthide to Jim Crow, hoping for a responce from them.

Kevin


But who isn't outraged(at least on here) by gender oppression WHEREVER it manifests?
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Ebony Rose

quote:
"I think we need to agree that we disagree on EVERYTHING, kevin1122!!

It will just make life a lot easier that way."

Excellent point Ebony! If you don't mind, I'm gonna write that one down and post it on my refrigerator; that way I won't forget it.

quote:
Oshun Auset:
"I would like to know the reason for the question...

It's kinda like asking,

Q:"Which was worse, Jim Crow or Apartheid?"...

A:"Who gives a damn, they were both F-ed up!"

It just seems saddistic in a way to even ask who had it worse..."

I wouldn't go so far as call it saddistic, but let me put it this way: If aparthide were still going on today, and I suspected there were those who frenquet this site who were outraged by Jim Crow, but not Aparthide, I would compare Aparthide to Jim Crow, hoping for a responce from them.

Kevin



So, you suspect that some on this site are NOT outraged by the oppression of women?

that is entirely possible...

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