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White people are dangerous and violent!

They developed the bomb and are the only ones to use it against another nation.

When they are frightened (read: the war on terrah) they will attack anyone and everyone who doesn't look like them in the name of being "safe". They will round up people from other nations and intern them in concentrated camps (WWII with the Aleuts and the Japanese & the current war on terrah). They will racially profile people of color and brutalize the innocent without shame.

When there is a chopped up body crime, most of the time the victim and perpetrator are white. I don't know how white people live with each other without fear knowing the brutality they can commit against each other.

When there is a murder for money, nine times out of ten the victim and initiator of the homicidal scheme are white.

When there is mass murder, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is corporate crime (re: BoPal, mining cave in, etc.), you can bet dollars to doughnuts the individuals in charge are white.

When there is a serial poisoner, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is a psychopathic, murderous caregiver (Dr. Swango or a nurse) I've only seen or read about white folks.

White on white crime is affecting us all in negative ways! Those people must address their issues with violence!!!

Racism systematically verifies itself anytime the slave

can only be free by imitating his master.

~ Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin ~
Original Post
SACRED EARTH AND SPACE PLOWSHARES II

On October 6, 2002, at 7:30 a.m., three Roman Catholic Dominican Sisters and members of the Sacred Earth and Space Plowshares action in 2001, Carol Gilbert, Jackie Hudson and Ardeth Platte, entered Minuteman missile silo site N-8 near Greeley, Colorado. Wearing white mop-up suits which said Disarmament Specialists and Citizens Weapons Inspection Team, they cut through two gates and entered the silo area. They hammered on the tracks used for the silo lids to open and on the silo itself. They also used their blood to make the sign of the cross on the tracks and on the silo. They then began defencing--cutting through the fence in three places. They concluded the witness with a liturgy.

By 8:30 a.m. military personnel arrived in humvees with machine guns pointed at them and they were placed under arrest. They were then taken to the Women's Detention Center in Greeley. They appeared in state court the next day and were charged with destruction of property--this charge was dropped when their case was transferred to federal court. On October 16, 2002, they appeared in Denver Federal Court and were initially charged with destruction of government property. Although she did not participate in the action due to her peace-work in Hebron with the Christian Peacemaker Team, Sr. Anne Montgomery signed the action statement.

In their statement they declared: We, women religious, come to Colorado to unmask the false religion and worship of national security so evident at Buckley AFB, in Aurora, the Missile Silos, and in Colorado Springs: Schreiver AFB (the Space Warfare Center), the Air Force Space Command Center at Peterson AFB, Cheyenne Mountain (NORAD) and the Air Force Academy. We reject the mission of these along with the US Space Command and Stratcom in Omaha, Nebraska...We act in the many names of God the Compassionate, ar-Rahim: our Life, our Peace, our Healer to transform swords into plowshares, our violence and greed into care for the whole community of earth and sky, not as masters but as servants and friends.

On October 24, they were arraigned in federal court in Denver and were given two charges: "Injury/Obstruction of National Defense of the US" which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine, and Injury to Government Property of the US which carries a 10 year sentence and $250,000 fine.

Prior to trial, Judge Robert Blackburn denied the defendants pre-trial motions, one of which asked for a dismissal based on the legality of their actions under International Law. The Judge granted an in limine motion by the prosecutor, prohibiting the sisters from speaking about the moral and legal justification for their actions.

On April 7 a Denver jury found Sr. Carol Gilbert, Sr. Ardeth Platte and Sr. Jackie Hudson guilty of "interference, injury or obstruction" of National Defense materials and "depredation of government property" in excess of $1000.

Despite the courts attempts to suppress the truth of the action, the sisters' true motive and intent could not be concealed. At certain points in the trial they were able to powerfully convey the spirit of their witness.

During the government's case, an Air Force officer testified that the cutting of the perimeter fence, the pouring of blood and the minor hammering on a steel rail had not damaged the missile, its warhead or its mission. The part of the fence that the Air Force replaced was already in stock. Regular Air Force personnel quickly repaired it. Strictly on the merits of the law there is no way the sisters were guilty.

The government's fabrication of the charges and the judge's misguided interpretation of the law ultimately resulted in their conviction. In the end, the jury felt bound by the law rather than by their hearts, to return a guilty verdict. Motions for a mistrial, a new trial and acquittal were denied. After spending 22 days in jail and facing long prison sentences, they were released April 30 on personal recognizance until their sentencing date.

On July 25, with several hundred supporters on hand, they were sentenced in Federal Court in Denver. Acknowledging the sisters' community service contributions, the worldwide support they received and other mitigating circumstances, Judge Blackburn gave them an eight point downward departure in the sentencing guidelines. They were given the following prison sentences: Sr. Ardeth--41 months; Sr. Carol--33 months and Sr. Jackie--30 months. They were also given 3 years probation, ordered to pay $3,080.04 in restitution at a rate of $86 per month during their supervised release, and given a $200 special assessment.


Prison Addresses

Sr. Carol Gilbert 10856-039
FPC Alderson, R-1
Box A
Alderson, W. VA 24910

Sr. Ardeth Platte 10857-039
Danbury FCI
Rte. 37
Danbury, CT 06811

Sr. Jackie Hudson 08808-039
FCI Victorville
Box 5400
Adelanto, CA 92301

Chronology of Plowshares Disarmamant Actions 1980-2003:

http://www.plowsharesactions.org/Chronology.html
http://www.plowsharesactions.org/


AN INTRODUCTION TO PLOWSHARES-DISARMAMENT ACTIONS

by Arthur J. Laffin (Revised from Swords Into Plowshares )

Updated February 2003

In this article, I would like to give a brief background of plowshares actions, reflect on the underlying spirit and hope of these actions, address how the courts have responded, and briefly address some of the major criticisms about these actions. It is my intent here not to be exhaustive on covering all these issues in great detail, but to give the reader a general sense of what plowshares-disarmament actions are about.

On September 9, 1980, the "Plowshares Eight" carried out the first of what have come to be known as plowshares actions. Eight peacemakers entered the General Electric plant in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, where the nose cones from the Mark 12-A nuclear warheads were manufactured. With hammers and blood they enacted the biblical prophecies of Isaiah (2:4) and Micah (4:3) to "beat swords into plowshares" by hammering on two of the nose cones and pouring blood on documents. Thus, the name "plowshares" has been used to identify this action. The eight were subsequently arrested and tried by a jury, convicted and sentenced to prison terms ranging from 1 ½ to 10 years. After a series of appeals that lasted 10 years, they were resentenced to time served"”from several days to 17 ½ months.

Since the Plowshares Eight action, others, acting individually and in community, have entered military bases and weapons facilities and have symbolically and actually disarmed components of U.S. first-strike nuclear weapons systems: the MX, Perishing II, Cruise, Minuteman ICBM's, Trident II missiles, Trident submarines, B-52 bombers, P-3 Orion anti-submarine aircraft, the Navstar system, the ELF communication system, the Milstar satellite system, a nuclear capable battleship and the Aegis destroyer. Combat aircraft used for military intervention such as the F-111 fighter bomber, the F-15A fighter, the F-18 bomber, the A-10 Warthog, the Hawk aircraft, as well as combat helicopters and other conventional weapons, including aircraft missile launchers, bazookas, grenade throwers, and AK-5 automatic rifles, have been disarmed. Model weapons have been disarmed at an "Arms Bazaar." People who have been involved in plowshares actions have undertaken a process of intense spiritual preparation, nonviolence training and community formation, and have given careful consideration to the risks involved. Plowshares activists, accepting full responsibility for their actions, remain at the site of their action so that they can publicly explain their witness.

Resonating closely with this spirit of nonviolent direct disarmament, other people, though not seeing their action arising out of the biblical prophecy of Isaiah and Micah, have been compelled to nonviolently disarm components of nuclear and conventional weapons. Although individuals who have carried out these actions have been inspired by plowshares participants who embrace a biblical vision, they view their action as being primarily motivated by a deeply held conscience commitment to nonviolence or by other spiritual or moral convictions.

As of February 2003, more than 150 individuals have participated in over 70 plowshares and related disarmament actions. Also several groups and individuals were stopped by security and arrested at or near a weapons site before being able to complete their intended disarmament action. Some plowshares activists have gone on to participate in other plowshares actions. Plowshares actions have occurred in the U.S., Australia, Germany, Holland, Sweden, and England. The backgrounds of plowshares activists vary widely. Parents, grandparents, veterans, lawyers, teachers, artists, musicians, priests, sisters, house-painters, carpenters, writers, health-care workers, students, advocates for the poor and homeless, and members of Catholic Worker communities have all participated in plowshares actions. Most of those who have participated in plowshares actions remain actively involved in the peace and justice movement.

In my view, the basic hope of the plowshares actions (and here I'm not attempting to speak for other people involved in these actions) is to communicate from the moment of entry into a plant or base"”and throughout the court process and prison witness"”and underlying faith that the power of nonviolent love can overcome the forces of violence; a reverence for the sacredness of all life and creation; a plea for justice for victims of poverty, the arms race and economic sanctions; an acceptance of personal responsibility for the dismantling and the physical conversion of the weapons; and a spiritual conversion of the heart to the way of justice and reconciliation. Thus, plowshares participants believe that the physical dismantling of the weapon and the personal disarmament of the heart is a reciprocal process. As Philip Berrigan states: "We try to disarm ourselves by disarming the weapons."

The main symbols used in plowshares actions are hammers and blood. Hammers are used to literally begin the process of disarmament that thousands of talks and numerous treaties have failed to accomplish. The hammer is used to take apart as well as create, and to point to the urgency for conversion of war production to products that enhance life. The blood symbolizes the mass killing that weapons of mass destruction can inflict, as well as the murderous cost they now impose on the poor. Blood speaks too of human unity and the willingness to give one's life rather than to take life.

Seeking to expose the violence, secrecy, and idolatry of the national security state, some plowshares defendants have tried to present a "justification" or "necessity" defense. During their defense they have tried to show, through personal and expert witness testimony, that their actions were morally and legally justified and that their intent was to protect life. In most cases, the courts have shown their complicity in protecting the interests of the government and have disallowed this defense. Some plowshares groups have also presented a defense declaring that a state religion of "nuclearism" has been an established, which is unconstitutional, in violation of the First Amendment. Moreover, nuclearism is in violation of God's law, which forbids the worship of "gods of metal." Plowshares defendants have moved for dismissal of all charges brought against them; for the law, as applied in these cases, is used to protect this unconstitutional state religion. Such motions have been consistently denied.

With the exception of the G.E. 5, the Aegis Plowshares, the first Australian Plowshares action, and the Earth and Space Plowshares action, all plowshares activists have been prosecuted for their actions. While most plowshares-disarmament activists have pled not guilty and have gone to trial, several opted to plead "no contest" or "guilty" to charges brought against them. Most of the trials to date, mainly jury trials, have ended in convictions. However, members of the Epiphany Plowshares were tried an unprecedented five times with three trials ending in hung juries and mistrials. Also, Chris Cole's first trial for a plowshares action in England ended in a hung jury. Also the first ever acquittal in a plowshares case occurred in Liverpool, England where a jury found the Seeds of Hope"”East Timor Ploughshares not guilty. There was also another plowshares acquittal, which occurred in Edinburgh, Scotland during the trial of three women who disarmed Trident-related technology as part of the Trident Ploughshares 2000 campaign. And in another plowshares-disarmament action against Trident in England, a trial for two women ended in a hung jury for one charge and an acquittal for the second charge.

During the trials in the U.S., which have occurred in both state and federal courts, most of the defendants have represented themselves and have been assisted by legal advisers. The trial tactics by judges and government prosecutors have become extremely repressive. A "Motion In Limine," which calls for the complete prohibition of "affirmative" defenses, has been introduced in a number of plowshares trials. For example, prior to the third and fourth trials of the Epiphany Plowshares, the trial judge, complying with the U.S. prosecutor's request, imposed a "gag" order forbidding any mention of such subjects as God's law, the Bible, international law, U.S. military intervention in Central America, nuclear weapons and the poor. For speaking about these subjects, two defendants were given contempt charges and 20-day jail sentences. And during their opening statement to the jury in North Carolina, members of the Pax Christi-Spirit of Life Plowshares were found in contempt of court for not complying with the judge's instruction to refrain from speaking about crimes of the national security state and their moral and legal intent.

Prison sentences have varied for each plowshares-disarmament action. These sentences have ranged from suspended sentences to 18 years. The average sentence for plowshares activists has been between one and two years.

Doing support work on behalf of plowshares activists has also been an integral part of the plowshares actions. Efforts by local support groups have been invaluable in supporting plowshares activists during trial and imprisonment and in helping to educate the public about the meaning of these actions. As people have been sentenced to long prison terms, support for prisoners and their families has been, and continues to be, crucial.

Throughout the 22-year history of the plowshares actions, questions have been raised regarding different aspects of these actions. Some have voiced concerns that these actions are violent because property, in this case a weapon, has been damaged. Plowshares activists believe that nuclear weapons and all weapons of war are anti-God, anti-life, and therefore, are inherently evil and have no right to exist. Thus, it is the responsibility of people of faith and conscience to begin to nonviolently dismantle these weapons. In the Trident Nein plowshares action, which I participated, we hammered and poured blood on missile hatches and sonar equipment of the first-strike Trident submarine. With spray-paint we renamed the Trident "USS Auschwitz," because of our belief that such a weapon has no more right to exist than the Nazi gas ovens. Would trying to take apart a gas oven be considered an act of violence or vandalism? I believe that it would not. Would it be consistent with nonviolence? I believe so. Plowshares participants believe that trying to dismantle a weapon of mass murder is not an act of violence even though the media and the courts characterize these acts as "vandalism" and various other crimes, rather than as an act of disarmament. The real crime is not the hammering upon weapons, but the U.S. government's first-strike nuclear policy, its military interventionist policy, and its commitment to wage a war against the poor of the world to protect its economic interests.

People have also questioned whether these actions are truly nonviolent because of the secrecy that surrounds the action. Plowshares people contend that no advance notice is needed to disarm an illegal weapon that has no right to exist in the first place. (Did Jesus give advance notice to authorities when he cleansed the temple? Did abolitionists give advance notice to government officials about harboring slaves?) People have a moral and legal right to begin the disarmament process at any base or factory at any time. They posses this right because they honor and try to embody God's law, which authorities and personnel break consistently by their work. There is therefore, no moral or political duty to inform or dialogue with them about a witness beforehand. The witness is the dialogue.

Moreover, once the action occurs there is no attempt to conceal the truth of what happened. Plowshares people take full responsibility for their action by awaiting arrest, telling the story of their action in court and to the public, as well as speaking out from jail and prison.

Also, in the past the government has charged peace activists and plowshares participants with conspiracy charges. Great care is taken prior to each action to avoid exposing others to the risk of such charges. It seems to me that this approach, while different from other nonviolent actions, reflects the spirit of biblical nonviolence.

There have also been important concerns raised about the need for what disarmament activist Peter Lumsdaine calls a more "effective strategic resistance" approach to the weapons rather than the mostly symbolic approach of plowshares actions. (1) This approach, which centers on committing "maximum" damage to key weapons systems (i.e. Navstar) in order to render them ineffective, has certainly provoked a meaningful dialogue"”one which continues. While plowshares activists have different perspectives on this issue, most would undoubtedly agree with the following viewpoint articulated by Philip Berrigan:

Plowshares began disarmament in 1980, doing what the government refused to do for 35 years. With equal concern, Plowshares appealed to the hearts, minds and spirits of the American people"”˜You must share disarmament!' The twin goals of Plowshares"”symbolic yet real disarmament and sharing disarmament"”have reciprocity. The weapons exist because our fear, violence and hatred built them. Plowshares must address these realities...

The hammer is a modest tool and a potent symbol, which within the context of Isaiah's prophecy, insists upon a universal responsibility for justice and peace. But it also confines us within human limits"”we are not superpeople, nor do we embody the fantasies of Hollywood or the Washington plutocrats. The imperative is to be human in an inhuman time, to act in season and out despite the prospect that the American empire might not break up in our lifetime, nor disarmament happen while we live. If that be the case, modesty of means will sustain us as another face of faith. And faith is not faith except for the long haul. (2)

Regarding this notion of faith, Elizabeth McAlister asserts:

There is not going to be any real disarmament until there's a disarming of hearts. And so one puts oneself on the line to symbolically, but really, disarm the weapons in a hope and prayer that the action might be used by the Spirit of God to change minds and hearts. One puts oneself on the line"”at risk and in jeopardy"”to communicate the depth of commitment to that hope. (3)

Based on my experience, it is important to note that each of the plowshares participants I've met has carefully reflected on these and other important considerations prior to an action. While there does exist among plowshares participants a basic unanimity about the underlying spirit for plowshares actions, there is a diversity of opinion among plowshares participants about certain issues including defenses to use in court, the level of cooperation with court and probation authorities, and the payment of fines and restitution. Clearly, these and other issues that I have addressed have generated important discussion among plowshares activists and the wider disarmament movement.

In the final analysis, people who do plowshares actions are ordinary people who, with all their weaknesses, are attempting to respond in faith and conscience to a moral mandate, which must be enacted in our violent world. These actions are not to be glamorized or taken lightly. People have taken great risks, experienced the loneliness and dehumanization of prison, and have had to cope with many difficult personal and family hardships. Building and sustaining an acting community takes extraordinary commitment and is certainly not problem-free. Yet, with all their limitations and imperfections, these actions are a powerful reminder that we can live in a world without weapons and war if people are willing to begin the process of disarmament by literally beating the swords (weapons) of our time in plowshares. While these actions are deemed criminal by the state, they should be considered, in light of the great evil we face, the norm. Although each plowshares action has many similarities to others, in the end each is unique, each is a learning process, each is an experiment in truth.



NOTES
(1)For a more in depth explanation of the effective strategic resistance approach see article by Peter Lumsdaine in The Nuclear Resister,

October 7, 1992.

(2) Phil Berrigan, The Nuclear Resister, December 23, 1992.

(3) Liz McAlister, The Catholic Agitator, November 1992.

http://www.plowsharesactions.org/webpages/webintro2.htm
Why aren't other white people following in the sister's footsteps?!

Why are white people so violent? I don't understand them. If there were Black people committing mass murder and serial murder at the same rate, white leaders would be up in arms about the state of the Black community at large and recommending internment in the political legislature! Why the disparate reactions to violence done by other caucasians?

Anyone...?

This has GOT to stop!
quote:
Originally posted by Isome:
Why aren't other white people following in the sister's footsteps?!

Why are white people so violent? I don't understand them. If there were Black people committing mass murder and serial murder at the same rate, white leaders would be up in arms about the state of the Black community at large and recommending internment in the political legislature! Why the disparate reactions to violence done by other caucasians?

Anyone...?

This has GOT to stop!


Any Comments, CF?
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Isome:
Why aren't other white people following in the sister's footsteps?!

Why are white people so violent? I don't understand them. If there were Black people committing mass murder and serial murder at the same rate, white leaders would be up in arms about the state of the Black community at large and recommending internment in the political legislature! Why the disparate reactions to violence done by other caucasians?

Anyone...?

This has GOT to stop!


Any Comments, CF?


Constructive Feedback: ".....*stuttering*...........*stuttering*............*stuttering*...........Blacks are all criminals! The records say so! I had sex with your mom last night!" *runs away*


Michael Lofton: "*Chatterbot-speak*


Shadow: "Blah....blah.....blah......Khemetic........Khemetic.........Khemetic............Carribean people.............blah........."


Cobb: "*sputtering*...........*sputtering*..........How......will.........this........help.......the.........Black........Community? We.....should.........not..........criticize........White.......people.........they........won't........give......us..........any.....money.......Fuck off, racist! *sputtering*"
Isome:

I agree with much of what you say here. There is a long trail of blood that the European has left around the world as he "discovered" the new world and brought the wealth of other nations back to his homeland.

His "Superiority" was created with the blade of a knife. Those "Savages" who fought him often were attempting to defend their own land.

As with a recent story about France attempting to clean up their history of colonialism in Africa, making themselves come out as the good guys, the European who owns the pen that inks the history books tells the story from his perspective - He was "civilizing" the natives. The only problem is that these "savages" as he calls them were able to live on this Earth for thousands and thousands of years without his help.

**********
The following words are seperate and distinct from the top half of this message:

(meaning the truth about the history that was detailed above stands on it's own as fact. I only ask you to turn the page to the next chapter of today and make note of where you stand today as a person living in stolen land. THIS IS NOT A JUSTIFICATION IN ANY WAY OF INJUSTICE PAST OR PRESENT. It is a recognition of the FACTS of how you go to live where you are.

To deny these facts would be like denying that your grandfather existed. Of course he did. This is why you are here today.)



I think you should also take a look at the non-White folks who currently live in the "clearing" that the White man's treachery has allowed them to live within.

They live on STOLEN LAND taken from people of color. They know that the land is stolen based on their frequent references. I don't see them giving the land back. They don't wish to forego their standard of living to be in line with their ideology.

(Isome: Clearly this post was written in response to what I posted from Dewayne Whickham asking BLACK PEOPLE TO LOOK WITHIN. What is your opinion on that other post? That issue has a clear impact on your life as a Black person as well.)
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As a woman of color I am concerned about the violence of white people towards everyone, but I am perplexed by the laissez faire attitude that they have towards white on white violence.

I think it is past time that white people find a quiet place and engage in critical introspection about their history of violence towards each other and towards everyone else.

In the Book of Revelations there is a passage about the 4th seal judgement which references a pale horse, on which sits a pale rider, and wherever it goes, death and destruction follow. I'm no theologian, but it seems to me that it aptly describes white people and their travels around the globe. Wherever there has been white colonialism, people have lost their language, learned to have contempt for their own kind, lost their land, lost control of their natural resources, and, too often, become enamored of the violence and destructive power they were shown by white people.

They need to think about what they're doing to each other and to the rest of us!

I don't know why their leaders don't talk to them about it, instead of insisting everyone else but them has a problem with violent behavior.
quote:
As a woman of color I am concerned about the violence of white people towards everyone, but I am perplexed by the laissez faire attitude that they have towards white on white violence.


Isome:

(And I hope to keep this conversation away from the typical name calling)

I believe that most White folks are aware about their bloody past. Some of them will take the "Ends justified the Means" approach in overlooking what was done in the name of "Discovering The New World" and ordering the world that we have today.

HOWEVER - It is my opinion that GENETICS trumps all else. The famous statement by Public Enemy provides details on their motivations ("White man, Black Woman = Black Baby......"). THEY ARE NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER going to place themselves in a position in which they as a genetic pool of characteristics are SUBORDINATE to a power that can overrun them and extinguish their profile. By definition - if this happens they will be no more. They cannot afford to allow any other power to do to them what they have done to others.

The Moors of the past went through Europe and "planted their seeds". (http://www.saxakali.com/Saxakali-Publications/runoko6.htm). This is why you have many Sicilian who are brown skinned yet with Italian features.

They (and to some extend we) have been conditioned that brown skin is a negative attribute.

They know the consequences of yielding their guard and accepting full "integration". They will move away from us and attempt to "make it on their own" before they accept total domination from a non-White power who can have their way with them.

As I tell my friend Noah - it is all about Power Relationships NOT MORALITY OR HUMAN RIGHTS when it comes down to it. This same power that you speak of CHOSE to apply "Human Rights" after they had amassed the power and fortune in their own favor.

(This is why I just don't understand why my friend Kevin looks to the same power that has oppressed us as the key pathway for Black kids to become educated and one day topple them off of their "mountain". IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN with such dependency. When your power grows THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE LADDER that you were using and ask you to "BUILD YOUR OWN DAMNED LADDER")

If you think about it the very same defenses used to keep CHINA from obtaining strategic weapons and the same defenses to keep Nukes out of the hands of Iranians is the same logic to keep Black people from amassing expansive political and economic power OVER THEM.

I did not say that we could not gather such power WITHIN our own communities. I said OVER THEM.

The European is not going to change his ways until he decides that he no longer wishes to remain a distinct genetic group. He has a right to decide this. He does not have a right to trample over other people.

ONLY opposite POWER can prevent him from doing this.

So it comes down to not WHAT IS RIGHT!!! but what you can PREVENT via YOUR OPPOSITE POWER TO RESIST.
This thing of turning our color on ourselves has been running though my mind for the last several days.

In general, the practice of 'turning on ourselves' has been a, almost, a preoccupation. I already posted a thread on 'people-of-color'. Our insistent use of 'black-on-black' to describe crime is of the same genre.

I don't know who coined the phrase, but I still remember the feeling of insult when I first heard it. It was like a big brush filled with a clinging paint sweeping over me.

It was like the 'cycle-cell anemia brush', and the 'credit to your people brush' of the 1940s. It was the 'welfare brush' of the 70s.

But unlike those 'brushes', the 'black brush', and the 'black-on-black' brush, we didn't become avid advocates.

Oh, I know we embraced the societal smear of all of them, especially that 'credit to your people' ruse. We really did 'lay that on our children' big time.

But this 'black-on-black' thing has become institutional. Our most learned accept and apply the term in their scholarly work.

It is not the 'white' population that must address this issue. It is we who must stand up and reject it.

We must begin to aggressively apply 'white-on-white' to the criminality of 'whites'.

We allow the language of our society to chaacterize and bind us. Somehow this 'branding' is accepted because it happens. We accept it's usage.

Most crime is commit by people who look like the people being violated. That is not something unique to us.

'black-on-black' is a label used to deride us as a people. And it is endorsed by all the professions from journalists to doctorate-holders of every description.

The Liberal Artists shape our lives.

We have to provoke the change in the hegemony, the language of our society, by using the language to force the change.

Use it: 'white-on-white'. The one is as valid as the other.

Then, and only then, will the style book of America's media delete the terminology from their recommended usage.

PEACE

Jim Chester
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quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
As a woman of color I am concerned about the violence of white people towards everyone, but I am perplexed by the laissez faire attitude that they have towards white on white violence.


Isome:

(And I hope to keep this conversation away from the typical name calling)

I believe that most White folks are aware about their bloody past. Some of them will take the "Ends justified the Means" approach in overlooking what was done in the name of "Discovering The New World" and ordering the world that we have today.

HOWEVER - It is my opinion that GENETICS trumps all else. The famous statement by Public Enemy provides details on their motivations ("White man, Black Woman = Black Baby......"). THEY ARE NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER going to place themselves in a position in which they as a genetic pool of characteristics are SUBORDINATE to a power that can overrun them and extinguish their profile. By definition - if this happens they will be no more. They cannot afford to allow any other power to do to them what they have done to others.

The Moors of the past went through Europe and "planted their seeds". (http://www.saxakali.com/Saxakali-Publications/runoko6.htm). This is why you have many Sicilian who are brown skinned yet with Italian features.

They (and to some extend we) have been conditioned that brown skin is a negative attribute.

They know the consequences of yielding their guard and accepting full "integration". They will move away from us and attempt to "make it on their own" before they accept total domination from a non-White power who can have their way with them.

As I tell my friend Noah - it is all about Power Relationships NOT MORALITY OR HUMAN RIGHTS when it comes down to it. This same power that you speak of CHOSE to apply "Human Rights" after they had amassed the power and fortune in their own favor.

(This is why I just don't understand why my friend Kevin looks to the same power that has oppressed us as the key pathway for Black kids to become educated and one day topple them off of their "mountain". IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN with such dependency. When your power grows THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE LADDER that you were using and ask you to "BUILD YOUR OWN DAMNED LADDER")

If you think about it the very same defenses used to keep CHINA from obtaining strategic weapons and the same defenses to keep Nukes out of the hands of Iranians is the same logic to keep Black people from amassing expansive political and economic power OVER THEM.

I did not say that we could not gather such power WITHIN our own communities. I said OVER THEM.

The European is not going to change his ways until he decides that he no longer wishes to remain a distinct genetic group. He has a right to decide this. He does not have a right to trample over other people.

ONLY opposite POWER can prevent him from doing this.

So it comes down to not WHAT IS RIGHT!!! but what you can PREVENT via YOUR OPPOSITE POWER TO RESIST.


So basically, you are saying that White people have a right to be racist and discriminate against others? And why do they? Do you believe in the myth that White people "own" this country?

In that case, then so do we. Let's apply your theory to everything, why don't we?
quote:
(This is why I just don't understand why my friend Kevin looks to the same power that has oppressed us as the key pathway for Black kids to become educated and one day topple them off of their "mountain". IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN with such dependency. When your power grows THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE LADDER that you were using and ask you to "BUILD YOUR OWN DAMNED LADDER")



**CF...you do not understand ANYTHING because of your repeated use of dumbing-down tactics to strengthen your own arguments....your dumb azz makes committal statements on behalf of others and then state your case against it. How many times will it take you to realize that you will never attain credibility unless you draw your opinions from EXACT words. I just want you see what a pussy azz negro you remain as a result of playing games......and as so far as my quest for black people to attain equality...it views us as equals and beats the hell out of that subordinate azz postion you take to white people and your love it or leave it approach to accepting the status quo. One more time, would you please quit being a little punk bitch and use my exact words when stating MY position on an issue? Would you please quit that little pussy azz game of presenting YOUR version of what other people think when stating YOUR opinion of them?
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Most crime is commit by people who look like the people being violated. That is not something unique to us.

'black-on-black' is a label used to deride us as a people. And it is endorsed by all the professions from journalists to doctorate-holders of every description.

We have to provoke the change in the hegemony, the language of our society, by using the language to force the change.

Use it: 'white-on-white'. The one is as valid as the other.

Then, and only then, will the style book of America's media delete the terminology from their recommended usage.

Jim Chester


Thank you for understanding my point exactly! tfro
quote:
(This is why I just don't understand why my friend Kevin looks to the same power that has oppressed us as the key pathway for Black kids to become educated and one day topple them off of their "mountain". IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN with such dependency. When your power grows THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE LADDER that you were using and ask you to "BUILD YOUR OWN DAMNED LADDER").
Besides being a little PUSSY ASS swipe... This Negro doesn't even realize how fuckin' stupid he sounds. This, too, is another example of his own self-stated, self-perpetuated SELF-HATRED.

The SELF-HATRED and utter stupidity resides in the phrase:
When your power grows THEY ARE GOING TO REMOVE THE LADDER

Now, let's consider the historical examples while at the same time remembering the rest of what CON-Feed has to say about The White Genetic Survival Through Hegemony idea. Hmmmm.... This Negro invoked Marcus Garvey, etc. Talked about what Garvey did for Black people, etc. But what happened "WHEN HIS POWER GREW"??

C'mon CON-Feed...
quote:
They know the consequences of yielding their guard and accepting full "integration".
By the same token, "THEY" know the consequences of being true to that anything opposite of "Integration." Again, what happened to Garvey et al? What was COINTELPRO? Was it targeted only at those leaders, activists, etc. who wanted "Integration"??

Your BULLSHIT doesn't align with TRUTH or History. For Garvey and all such independent thinkers or anyone who would challenge the STATUS QUO Black/White social [Power] Relationship, Malcolm X and MLK alike, the operative moves 'THEY' made were clearly to CO-OPT, DISCREDIT, UNDERMINE and/or DESTROY.

But, go ahead, show how Garvey-like movements and [power] building have been left untouched and how it's been the "Integrationist", accomodationist strain that's been the only ideology/movement that's had "the ladder pulled out from under them" by way of repression/oppression.
quote:
They will move away from us and attempt to "make it on their own" before they accept total domination from a non-White power who can have their way with them.
ENGLISH!!! PUNK!!!

TOTAL DOMINATION?? Confused

And you have the nerve to call anybody else a "FUNDAMENTALISTS"? What? With all the extremes you use in your rhetoric, all that Black and White shit, Hot or Cold, TOTAL DOMINATION or TOTAL CONTROL... WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???

How the fuck does that comport with anything that's RELEVANT here? Anything that's been said here?

Maybe you are every bit of that WHITE BOY I call you -- given how you choose to try to turn our seeking "EQUALITY" and even their own concoction of "Integration" into a quest for DOMINATION... LIKE SOMEONE Anxiously Scared & WHITE Would.

But back to TRUTH and HISTORY. Please show us an example, be it Garvey or whoever... show us an example of someone Black who was able to successfully "Build Their Own Ladder" that was not subsequently torn down by "Mighty Whitey" or even show us some era where Africans/African-Americans were truly able to build, maintain and perpetuate independent institutions in this country without disturbance, distractions and attempts to dismantle or destroy those things...

Tell me where are the Black people WITH YOUR curious mindset who have BUILT INDEPENDENT INSTITUTIONS. (You always shrink when it comes to that. Why is that??? = RHETORIC!)

Again, you know your mindset is much more akin to Booker T. Washington and you've had to admit that he "advocated politically to obtain assistance from certain powers to help... Black people." Yet, you don't begrudge Booker T. You don't malign him. Instead, you're much more closely aligned with him. And that, also in a rather superficial manner.

Instead of having even a single concept of BUILDING A DAMN THING for Black people, as a whole (no Tuskegee type projects from you and yours), all your PUNK ASS has ever really "advocated" is for Black people to mimick White people and be all about themselves. Matter of fact, it's clear that the sum total of all your rhetoric boils down to you justifying your personal situation and outlook.

In order to ease the psychic pain of WHO YOU HAVE BECOME, as Kevin says often about Lofton, you try to perpetrate this Blacker Than Thou, Black People Need To BS so you can feel good about your SORRY ASS. And so, you find yourself trying to appropriate PRO-BLACK language, styles and frames when you can't resist your urge to SPEAK IN DEFERENCE and DEFENENSE of White America a la FANTASTIC SAMS.

That BULLSHIT right there makes your statements here seriously suspect. Which is it?

Seriously... if your ideas were all you crack them up to be... then you would not have such a tough time illustrating, as MBM challenged you, to show how your philosophy has benefitted you and, by extension, where has that philosophy benefitted the Black Community.

Your PUNK ASS ran from the Education Plan thread right when it was PROVING TIME for you.

And I'll just leave you with this:
I know who I am... Negro? Do you know who you are? sck

If you do then you should have no problem and should be able to MAN-UP once you say the type of BULLSHIT you do.

Now, go back to that Education Plan thread and STEP THE FUCK UP! You said:
quote:
Just like the "ownership society" where more Blacks own their own houses is seen as a TRICK, the same Kneegrows believe that operating their own schools is also A TRICK.
I not only dispelled that BS but I left you with a challenge. A PUT UP of SHUT UP challenge:

Where are the Black CONservatives or bitch motherf@ckas like you founding, building, supporting BLACK SCHOOLS?? [Black INDEPENDENT, Black Centered, African-centered or other such schools that would actually fit the description of OPERATING OUR OWN SCHOOL.]

Don't STUTTER... Don't obfuscate. Don't run your PUNK ASS to the nearest RAT HOLE. PUT UP or SHUT UP! Here and There.

The days of your SELF-HATRED are over. You can take that shit to some of those WHITE BOARDS where that BS may actually resonate and won't get checked for the substance it sorely lacks.

Sorry, RHETORIC MAN... You're going to have to come stronger than you have in 2006 -- The Year Of No More BULLSHIT!
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ZOMG, CON-Feed believes that if Black Power grows, the White Establishment will remove Institutionalized Racism? Eek Eek Eek

NOW WHEN IN HISTORY HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED? EVERY SINGLE TIME BLACK POWER IN THIS COUNTRY GREW, THE ESTABLISHMENT PUT MORE AND MORE ROADBLOCKS IN THE WAY TO KEEP OUR COMMUNITY DOWN.


The White Establishment ceasing to be racist due to our internal growth within our Community is like if Hitler stopped persecuting Jews if they became more internally connected in Germany.
...More likely, Black people more so than Caucasians need to address this issue, the issue being respect for life, and/or the property of others...

The reality of it rebutts B.S., the B.S. being the misguided and erroneous views of Empty Purnata...........

"White people are dangerous and violent!

They developed the bomb and are the only ones to use it against another nation.

When they are frightened (read: the war on terrah) they will attack anyone and everyone who doesn't look like them in the name of being "safe". They will round up people from other nations and intern them in concentrated camps (WWII with the Aleuts and the Japanese & the current war on terrah). They will racially profile people of color and brutalize the innocent without shame.

When there is a chopped up body crime, most of the time the victim and perpetrator are white. I don't know how white people live with each other without fear knowing the brutality they can commit against each other.

When there is a murder for money, nine times out of ten the victim and initiator of the homicidal scheme are white.

When there is mass murder, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is corporate crime (re: BoPal, mining cave in, etc.), you can bet dollars to doughnuts the individuals in charge are white.

When there is a serial poisoner, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is a psychopathic, murderous caregiver (Dr. Swango or a nurse) I've only seen or read about white folks.

White on white crime is affecting us all in negative ways! Those people must address their issues with violence!!!" by Isome

******************************

vs facts, the truth, and reality

.....to which again, it is your choice, follow in the footsteps of a lying Kevin41, and you can be assured to remain in poverty...

...and since I strongly believe in the laws of this land, I don't make any attempt to justify criminal, illegal, and/or civil tort activity.

...instead it is better served to seek redress, as opposed to asking the perpetrators why they did it.

......more important than the why, is proving the facts of how that they did it. Last time I checked, more times than not, those individuals formerly and/or presently behind bars, are there because it was proven that they did it, meaning in fact the individual, or group of conspiring individuals, truly committed the crime, and/or civil tort violation.

...on the flip side, meaning in civil court, in any atrocity, where the government, private industry, and/or both, violate the lawful rights of any law abiding citizen or non-citizen, a citizen is more concerned in proving that the government, private industry, or otherwise, violated them, so that they can be compensated, The Rampart Scandal and Killer/Butcher King Hospital being two of many proven instances.

....and in order to be compensated for the serious violations of law, the atrocities of government, the atrocities of private industry, or otherwise, be it the citizen, a group of citizens, a Civil Rights advocate, any so-called Civil Rights Organization, and/or especially your so-called elected representatives must first place value in the laws of this land.

...but since it has been validated that far too often our own elected Black leadership, and that no good Black middleclass who praise them choose to be co-conspirators in the oppression of the innocent, the indigent, the victim(s).....

....the Black community will continue to remain in abject poverty!
Last edited {1}
Several months ago when William Bennett made his remarks about abortion and the black crime rate, I had a Jewish associate of mine literally tell me why William Bennett's comments were justified. "There is the black crime rate, and how come the Asians are doing so well, he asked." I was stunned at the fact that he would dare justify such ignorance, and even more so that he was oblivious to the fact that whites have a history of genocide, rape, murder, and other aggressive behaviors that he failed to acknowledge and denied when I addressed them.

What are your views on why whites feel that they are exempt when it comes to all forms of criminal activity and view themselves as being so self righteous? I know this does not apply to all whites, but I have come across many who view blacks, latinos and other minorites as if we are menaces to society. They also tend to believe that crime is a minority dilemma, and something they are either least or unlikely to engae in.
"Hey MikeBot, you attributed the wrong post to me" by Empty Purnata

...I stand corrected, regardless the remainder of the material is in fact valid. The material being.....

...More likely, Black people more so than Caucasians need to address this issue, the issue being respect for life, and/or the property of others...

The reality of it rebutts B.S., the B.S. being the misguided and erroneous views of Empty Purnata...........

"White people are dangerous and violent!

They developed the bomb and are the only ones to use it against another nation.

When they are frightened (read: the war on terrah) they will attack anyone and everyone who doesn't look like them in the name of being "safe". They will round up people from other nations and intern them in concentrated camps (WWII with the Aleuts and the Japanese & the current war on terrah). They will racially profile people of color and brutalize the innocent without shame.

When there is a chopped up body crime, most of the time the victim and perpetrator are white. I don't know how white people live with each other without fear knowing the brutality they can commit against each other.

When there is a murder for money, nine times out of ten the victim and initiator of the homicidal scheme are white.

When there is mass murder, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is corporate crime (re: BoPal, mining cave in, etc.), you can bet dollars to doughnuts the individuals in charge are white.

When there is a serial poisoner, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is a psychopathic, murderous caregiver (Dr. Swango or a nurse) I've only seen or read about white folks.

White on white crime is affecting us all in negative ways! Those people must address their issues with violence!!!" by Isome

******************************

vs facts, the truth, and reality

.....to which again, it is your choice, follow in the footsteps of a lying Kevin41, and you can be assured to remain in poverty...

...and since I strongly believe in the laws of this land, I don't make any attempt to justify criminal, illegal, and/or civil tort activity.

...instead it is better served to seek redress, as opposed to asking the perpetrators why they did it.

......more important than the why, is proving the facts of how that they did it. Last time I checked, more times than not, those individuals formerly and/or presently behind bars, are there because it was proven that they did it, meaning in fact the individual, or group of conspiring individuals, truly committed the crime, and/or civil tort violation.

...on the flip side, meaning in civil court, in any atrocity, where the government, private industry, and/or both, violate the lawful rights of any law abiding citizen or non-citizen, a citizen is more concerned in proving that the government, private industry, or otherwise, violated them, so that they can be compensated, The Rampart Scandal and Killer/Butcher King Hospital being two of many proven instances.

....and in order to be compensated for the serious violations of law, the atrocities of government, the atrocities of private industry, or otherwise, be it the citizen, a group of citizens, a Civil Rights advocate, any so-called Civil Rights Organization, and/or especially your so-called elected representatives must first place value in the laws of this land.

...but since it has been validated that far too often our own elected Black leadership, and that no good Black middleclass who praise them choose to be co-conspirators in the oppression of the innocent, the indigent, the victim(s).....

....the Black community will continue to remain in abject poverty!
**That one is a winner...numbers 1-3 all apply

1. It is his attempt to have the last word as EP stated when describing childish behavior.

2. The infammatory nature of his posts is intended to distract from the content of the previous post that cannot rebut. Based on the hateful nature of his posts, an appropriate response would be emotional and inflammatory and therefore sucessfully take the discussion away from the points he cannot rebut or renders his statements moot.

3. In the spirit of blast emailing, his posts and long and distracting and by always being the last post in a thread, tends to hide the post of the person he intends to suppress, kinda like a get-it-lost-in-the-crowd-of-messages approach.



**What I have learned is that once you find out the motivation behind a person's behavior, you are not distracted by the behavior itself and less inclined to become angry because of it. you understand what they are striving for as a goal, eliminate their possibility of accomplishing it...and go on about your merry day.
........the message continues.....

...when life is good, or you are true, you can be as repetitive as you wanna be...

....now on the other hand, there is no gain in being a repetitive loser....

...thus the broken record must continue playing....


"Whatever gets you to sleep at night, buddy. Whatever you say.....

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and most of them stink." by Empty Purnata


"Well I'm glad to hear that! Because, I think George Bush is a worthless piece of shit, and guess what? I'll let you in on a secret, my future is lining up quite nicely. I have a very promising career in International Studies in my future, and already have a well-paying internship job with a very good stipend lined up as a work-study summer job. I also plan to have a future in Black Politics or Black Economics to help other of our brothers and sisters come up in the world as I have.

And this is all achieved of this while being a Socialist, and not being Conservative. Your words against me do not change this reality." by Empty Purnata

....same connection, conclusion, opinion, A-hole, etc., etc., the dollars keep rolling, whether I'm sleeping, sharing, helping, working, hating, cruising, wasting, screwing, laughing, crying, gambling, stinking, etc., etc., ....

.....and I'm not under any stress doing it.....

.....life has been good...

..to each his or her own. I, on the other hand have drawn an entirely opposite conclusion, a conclusion based on fact and the reality of it, as opposed to falsehoods, bigotry, hatred, etc.,

...Heck my skin is thick. You can even place me in the picture shaking hands with President Bush. I'll let you in on a secret though, the dollars keep rolling in, and just like President George Bush, the derogatory comments of an Empty Purnata, will not impact either the President's or Michael Lofton's financial status.

***********************

..but facing the truth, the conservatives make for business opportunity, financial growth, etc, which is also of great benefit to Black people who truly want to work, and/or make something of themselves.

*************************

..now instead of keying in on a Michael Lofton.....

....perhaps Empty Purnata should do something constructive in the sense of helping the largest segment of the poverty stricken, namely our own Black people to rise above poverty!


....and at one time I too, lived in poverty, was homeless, etc., etc,....

....to which again, I only give credit where it is due, as to who, and/or whom are responsible for Michael Lofton rising from rags to riches.
**Boy I never knew all of that about those sorry azz poor azz black people who cannot do shit right even when the white man tries to help em (end sarcasm)


**What I have learned is that once you find out the motivation behind a person's behavior, you are not distracted by the behavior itself and less inclined to become angry because of it. you understand what they are striving for as a goal, eliminate their possibility of accomplishing it...and go on about your merry day.



**This is becoming quite entertaining...which probably means something is wrong with me... bang
...when life is good, or you are true, you can be as repetitive as you wanna be...

....now on the other hand, there is no gain in being a repetitive loser....

...thus the broken record must continue playing....


"Whatever gets you to sleep at night, buddy. Whatever you say.....

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and most of them stink." by Empty Purnata


"Well I'm glad to hear that! Because, I think George Bush is a worthless piece of shit, and guess what? I'll let you in on a secret, my future is lining up quite nicely. I have a very promising career in International Studies in my future, and already have a well-paying internship job with a very good stipend lined up as a work-study summer job. I also plan to have a future in Black Politics or Black Economics to help other of our brothers and sisters come up in the world as I have.

And this is all achieved of this while being a Socialist, and not being Conservative. Your words against me do not change this reality." by Empty Purnata

....same connection, conclusion, opinion, A-hole, etc., etc., the dollars keep rolling, whether I'm sleeping, sharing, helping, working, hating, cruising, wasting, screwing, laughing, crying, gambling, stinking, etc., etc., ....

.....and I'm not under any stress doing it.....

.....life has been good...

..to each his or her own. I, on the other hand have drawn an entirely opposite conclusion, a conclusion based on fact and the reality of it, as opposed to falsehoods, bigotry, hatred, etc.,

...Heck my skin is thick. You can even place me in the picture shaking hands with President Bush. I'll let you in on a secret though, the dollars keep rolling in, and just like President George Bush, the derogatory comments of an Empty Purnata, will not impact either the President's or Michael Lofton's financial status.

***********************

..but facing the truth, the conservatives make for business opportunity, financial growth, etc, which is also of great benefit to Black people who truly want to work, and/or make something of themselves.

*************************

..now instead of keying in on a the Bush Administration, CF, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Michael Lofton.....

....perhaps Empty Purnata, Isome, Kevin41, etc., etc., should do something constructive in the sense of helping the largest segment of the poverty stricken, namely our own Black people to rise above poverty!


....and at one time I too, lived in poverty, was homeless, etc., etc,....

....to which again, I only give credit where it is due, as to who, and/or whom are responsible for Michael Lofton rising from rags to riches.
and the beat goes on........and on....and on......and on.....


Isome I hear ya....if you take the way whites treated blacks in this country...and out the shoe on the other foot....they would not be half as understanding as they tell us to be.....it is the same way they deny their own racism even when it is proven to them...but can fix their mouths to call AA reverse racism....this country is really full of schit...
You Bet, the beat goes on....

...when life is good, or you are true, you can be as repetitive as you wanna be...

....now on the other hand, there is no gain in being a repetitive loser....

...thus the broken record must continue playing....


"Whatever gets you to sleep at night, buddy. Whatever you say.....

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and most of them stink." by Empty Purnata


"Well I'm glad to hear that! Because, I think George Bush is a worthless piece of shit, and guess what? I'll let you in on a secret, my future is lining up quite nicely. I have a very promising career in International Studies in my future, and already have a well-paying internship job with a very good stipend lined up as a work-study summer job. I also plan to have a future in Black Politics or Black Economics to help other of our brothers and sisters come up in the world as I have.

And this is all achieved of this while being a Socialist, and not being Conservative. Your words against me do not change this reality." by Empty Purnata

....same connection, conclusion, opinion, A-hole, etc., etc., the dollars keep rolling, whether I'm sleeping, sharing, helping, working, hating, cruising, wasting, screwing, laughing, crying, gambling, stinking, etc., etc., ....

.....and I'm not under any stress doing it.....

.....life has been good...

..to each his or her own. I, on the other hand have drawn an entirely opposite conclusion, a conclusion based on fact and the reality of it, as opposed to falsehoods, bigotry, hatred, etc.,

...Heck my skin is thick. You can even place me in the picture shaking hands with President Bush. I'll let you in on a secret though, the dollars keep rolling in, and just like President George Bush, the derogatory comments of an Empty Purnata, will not impact either the President's or Michael Lofton's financial status.

***********************

..but facing the truth, the conservatives make for business opportunity, financial growth, etc, which is also of great benefit to Black people who truly want to work, and/or make something of themselves.

*************************

..now instead of keying in on a the Bush Administration, CF, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Michael Lofton.....

....perhaps Empty Purnata, Isome, Kevin41, etc., etc., should do something constructive in the sense of helping the largest segment of the poverty stricken, namely our own Black people to rise above poverty!


....and at one time I too, lived in poverty, was homeless, etc., etc,....

....to which again, I only give credit where it is due, as to who, and/or whom are responsible for Michael Lofton rising from rags to riches.
quote:
So basically, you are saying that White people have a right to be racist and discriminate against others? And why do they? Do you believe in the myth that White people "own" this country?


Empty Marxist:

Can you please provide a break down of my words that have allowed you to come up with this DUMBAZZED claim that you have put forth?

Where did I say "right"?

You say - "White folks OWN this country?"
I say that if the land is STOLEN how do you justify your aspirations to OWN a greater portion of that which belongs to the Native Americans and work to resist the Mexican from reclaimng the land which he once roamed on?
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
So basically, you are saying that White people have a right to be racist and discriminate against others? And why do they? Do you believe in the myth that White people "own" this country?


Empty Marxist:

Can you please provide a break down of my words that have allowed you to come up with this DUMBAZZED claim that you have put forth?

Where did I say "right"?

You say - "White folks OWN this country?"
I say that if the land is STOLEN how do you justify your aspirations to OWN a greater portion of that which belongs to the Native Americans and work to resist the Mexican from reclaimng the land which he once roamed on?


CON-voluted Feedback,
Read here:

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/791602...241095163#4241095163


http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/6191043953/p/2

You claimed that Blacks should go out of our way to make White people feel "comfortable" with our businesses. You claimed that if we "get our act together", that Whites will get rid the Glass Ceiling.

This implies:

1) Whites are well-aware that they are racially discriminating.
2) Whites are intentionally keeping Institutionalized Racism because they believe everyone else is inferior.
3) You believe that it is either rightfully their (you keep talking about White prerogatives), or that dismantling it is so impossible that we should not fight it and should just attempt to "work through it".
4) You are naive enough to believe White people will end racism if they view us as their equals.
...More likely, Black people more so than Caucasians need to address this issue, the issue being respect for life, and/or the property of others...

The reality of it rebutts B.S., the B.S. being the misguided and erroneous views of Empty Purnata...........

"White people are dangerous and violent!

They developed the bomb and are the only ones to use it against another nation.

When they are frightened (read: the war on terrah) they will attack anyone and everyone who doesn't look like them in the name of being "safe". They will round up people from other nations and intern them in concentrated camps (WWII with the Aleuts and the Japanese & the current war on terrah). They will racially profile people of color and brutalize the innocent without shame.

When there is a chopped up body crime, most of the time the victim and perpetrator are white. I don't know how white people live with each other without fear knowing the brutality they can commit against each other.

When there is a murder for money, nine times out of ten the victim and initiator of the homicidal scheme are white.

When there is mass murder, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is corporate crime (re: BoPal, mining cave in, etc.), you can bet dollars to doughnuts the individuals in charge are white.

When there is a serial poisoner, most of the time the perpetrator is white.

When there is a psychopathic, murderous caregiver (Dr. Swango or a nurse) I've only seen or read about white folks.

White on white crime is affecting us all in negative ways! Those people must address their issues with violence!!!" by Isome

*********************************


"It is an adult move to have the last word..............wow" by Kevin41

....and quite naturally:

1. when your name and good character are unwarrantedly distorted by others, it is an adult move to have the last word.

2. Known falsehoods are allowed to stand as being true....

....because if you don't refute, rebut, deny, disprove, speak up......


......speak up as if your last breath depended on it.....

.......then you are in tacit agreement with the material.


"Shut the hell up Frenchy...if I didn't like gays or was against their agenda i'd be proud to tell your azz just that. If you understand the context of my post, you would see that I said that gays tend to take their agenda and confound the issues that are related to people disconnected from them and their issue(s). You are the example of the kind of person i mentioned that when you say you are not against gays, they make you be someone against them anyway. If I say my stance on an issue is a certain way and say it specifically like I did, how are you able to take something I said in the past, give it the context you want it to have and present it as me contradicting myself? You must be one of those handsome azz pushy women......i'm just f-king with ya...i'm not a narrow minded sexist......but trust me...if i'm against something or do not like something, I do not mince words when letting the world know how I REALLY feel about it.......you will not have to clarify it for me....so yes, just because I want the gays to keep their issues amongst themselves does not mean I am trying to stop them from doing anything...i do not care what they do or if they suceed or fail...got it?" by Kevin41 the notorious professor

....and it has been suggested that I be banned. More likely, let the readers draw their own conclusion as to who truly should be banned.
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Past & Present Serial Killers, Mass Murderers
and Other Assorted Homicidal Deviants

    David Berkowitz:
    Calling himself the Son of Sam, this serial killer terrorized New York City in the late 1970s. What is he doing now and will he ever get paroled?

    Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka:
    Known as the Ken and Barbie of Murder and Mayhem, Karla is now free because of her deal with the government. A new film exploits their torture and murder of school girls. Can you imagine a husband and wife team of killers who were BLACK and the woman participated in killing her OWN SISTER? Horrifying!!


    Jerry Brudos:
    One of the most shocking serial killers ever, he abducted, tortured & mutilated young women in his garage, right under the noses of his wife and children. An analysis of the psychological factors that created this monster.

    BTK- Dennis Rader:
    BTK Full Coverage: His confession leaves no doubt he is BTK. The chilling choice of words leaves no doubt about his psychopathic nature.

    Ted Bundy:
    The most frightening of serial killers: a handsome, educated psychopath who stalks and murders young college women. Who could have guessed at the evil in his soul? The new and expanded feature story. Notice how THEY describe that rather bland looking man as handsome. There's something about white people and strange expectations based on subjective and superficial characteristics!

    John Norman Collins:
    Convicted of one murder in the late 1960s Michigan college campus serial murder case, police believed that he was responsible for all of them. New DNA evidence and the conviction of Gary Earl Leiterman suggest that there were several perpetrators.

    Jeffrey Dahmer:
    A young man from a good family deviated into necrophilia and cannibalism, then lured boys to his apartment to be murdered and maimed.Too many of those boys were Asian and Black!

    Joseph Edward Duncan III:
    The story of how a monstrous convicted serial child molester was released to destroy an Idaho family.

    Albert Fish:
    This gentle-looking, benevolent grandfather cleverly lured children to their death, then devised recipes to eat them. This cannibal model for Hannibal Lector is a study in criminal psychology.

    John Wayne Gacy:
    One of the most notorious serial killers, "respectable" Chicago-area businessman hires young men to work in his contracting company, then rapes and murders scores of them, burying their bodies on his properties. In prison, he became the focus of researching the psychopathic mind.

    Eddie Gein:
    Considered to be a mild-mannered bachelor whose emotional development had been stunted by his domineering mother, he shocked the world when police found his vest of human skin and a cache of body parts. Gein is the model for The Silence of the Lambs' Buffalo Bill and Psycho's Norman Bates.

    Kitty Genovese:
    "A Cry in the Night," the famous murder of a lovely young woman in New York City. Thirty-seven people witnessed it and did not want to get involved. Detective Mark Gado examines the mind set of these silent witnesses and the serial murderer responsible for Kitty's death. Just think... some people purporting to share my ethnicity say that WE have a problem with crime because we have an inherent STOP SNITCHING disability.

    Green River Murders:
    Scores of women murdered in the Seattle area results in the longest running homicide investigation in U.S. history. Finally DNA evidence points the finger at Gary Leon Ridgway as the killer

    H.H. Holmes:
    Diabolical con artist, child murderer and serial killer, he built a terror mansion to lure female travelers to their death.

    Jack the Ripper:
    A penetrating analysis of the many suspects and theories surrounding this legendary serial killer. This country was founded by British subjects and brought their violent tendencies with them apparently.

    Edmund Kemper:
    At age 15, this genius-level serial killer killed his grandparents. Then he killed pretty hitchhikers and ended up decapitating his mother.

    Kingsbury Run Murders:
    Handsome, highly educated and fresh from victories over Al Capone, young Eliot Ness headed up Clevelands police force and walked right into one of the most shocking serial murder cases ever "” the Cleveland Torso Murders. Marilyn Bardsley uncovered a secret hidden for decades after she risked her life pursuing the identity of the politically connected surgeon that played cat and mouse with the dashing Untouchable.

    Charles Manson:
    Chilling monster made followers kill on command. The additional chapter "Where Are They Now?" is further updated to include Krenwinkles parole denial and new photos. All of that carnage because this Jesus wannabe actually was trying to start a race war!!

    Timothy McVeigh & Terry Nichols:
    The men responsible for one of the most shocking terrorist attacks within America - the Oklahoma City bombing. Update of the Nichols' trial. Another one of the melanin-deprived who, following the Turner Diaries, wanted to get the race war started!

    Michael Mullen:
    Incensed by the horrific crimes of killer pedophile Joseph Edward Duncan III, he poses as FBI agent to gain access to house with three sex offenders, killing two of them for revenge. Are offender registries really protecting the public from monsters like Duncan? A vigilante a la' Charles Bronson!

    Necrophiles:
    Author Katherine Ramsland examines the phenomenon of necrophilia and what causes some people to become sexually obsessed with the dead.

    Anatoly Onoprienko:
    Half-mad serial murderer roamed from place to place killing families and individuals and stealing their belongings "” believing he was commanded by God. He ranks as one of Europe's worst murderers.

    The Zodiac Killer:
    Mysterious San Francisco-area serial killer who has confounded investigators for over 30 years. If the suspect were Black, every neighborhood in a 30 mile radius would have been turned end over end in search of the perpetrator.

    Robert Pickton:
    Now charged with 30 of 69 missing women. His wild parties included his victims, but in the most grotesque manner. Updated

    Fred & Rose West:
    They were the typical family next door, or at least they appeared to be. But 1994 witnessed the slow peeling away of the layers of secrets hidden in the ordinary house at 25 Cromwell Street, now known as the Gloucester House of Horrors. Rose was running a thriving prostitution business, bearing illegitimate, mixed race children one after another, while Fred lured young women to stay at the house. While that may have provoked scandal, police discovered that Fred & Rose turned their children and guests into sex slaves and murdered them when they tried to escape.
If there were anywhere near the number of Black people committing these crimes the media would focus on them to the exclusion of all others.

So, the question is still: why aren't THEY worried about the white on white crime they perpetrate?
And that's a short list!!

The 'Bewildering Behavior' is Why is this worthy of our consideration as a thread?

What mentality drives a person to feed on himself/herself, and invite others to partake?

What destructive, self-destructive, driving force is at work here?

Clearly, this is a personaification of The DeGruy-Leary Effect,e.g., beat yourself up to look good for 'Mr. Charlie'.

Knowing the alleged wrong is something 'Mr. Charlie' is doing everyday.

And...lauds this behavior repeatedly in literature, and television.

In television, the system is institutionalized.

And...an informed person challenges us 'clean up our act???????

Puhleeeeze!!!

PEACE

Jim Chester
^That's the reason why Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of those neo-CONservatives hate those hate crime charges, b/c the huge majority of those who commit them are almost entirely white. And they can't afford to lose their white skin privileges if on the news, all you see are faces of white guys in handcuffs going to jail for mutilating, murdering, maiming and raping people who coincidentally DON'T look like them.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
^That's the reason why Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of those neo-CONservatives hate those hate crime charges, b/c the huge majority of those who commit them are almost entirely white. And they can't afford to lose their white skin privileges if on the news, all you see are faces of white guys in handcuffs going to jail for mutilating, murdering, maiming and raping people who coincidentally DON'T look like them.


Ever notice how if a criminal is Black, you see their face on TV, or read their race mentioned in the newspapers? If the offender is White, their picture is not shown on TV, or their race is not mentioned in the newspaper.

Crime committed by a Black offender:
"Today, a man was shot in killed, then robbed by two African-Americans......"


Crime committed by a White offender:
"Today, a bank was robbed by a criminal offender. The man drove a red pickup truck......"


Why do you think the police scope out Black neighborhoods for crime, and don't do the same with White neighborhoods? White people in middle class neighborhoods claim "The cops are never around when you need them" when their houses are robbed, or they are jacked. That's because the 5-0 is busy looking for niggers to lock up.

They do this attentionally (with approval from the Establishment). They purposely let White offenders run free and unsupervised, because locking up more White men would discount the myth that Blacks commit more crime.

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