When do you break-up?

Perhaps breaking up is not the answer. A honest sincere conversation about the true desires of individuals could save a valuable friendship while allowing both parties to pursue other avenues.

If the person was worthy of your time, attention, and affection, she probably still is. IMHO, I would attempt to re-define the parameters of the relationship. You may be surprised to learn that you are on the same page.

I say break up immediately. Don't "waste" the woman's time by keeping her in a relationship with you even though you are not open to all the possibilities. IMO, even if you have a serious conversation with her about your feelings, the very fact that you are staying around and continuing to share time/emotions/sex with her will give her hope that maybe you will change your mind down the line. I've been that woman kept hanging by a string, still emotionally invested in something that wasn't really there and waiting in vain. It hurts...tremendously. Be kind. Let her go.

I assume men would want to be treated with the same consideration.

Frenchy,

A lot of women aren't as vulnerable as we all assume. I've been in that situation, and that woman wouldn't take, "No, let it go, we don't have anything in common, this relationship is uncomfortable" for an answer. She had an agenda, and she wasn't about to let me mess it up for her.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
Frenchy,

A lot of women aren't as vulnerable as we all assume. I've been in that situation, and that woman wouldn't take, "No, let it go, we don't have anything in common, this relationship is uncomfortable" for an answer. She had an agenda, and she wasn't about to let me mess it up for her.

I can't really imagine the scenario you are talking about, HeruStar and I have my own ideas about why you experienced what you did. IMO, it's rare that someone will hang on so fiercely to something/someone unless they are getting some sort of positive reinforcement.

Nevertheless, I am simply saying: Give whoever it is the courtesy of being upfront about the emotional boundaries you've placed on the relationship and avoid the temptation to use them if they are not ready to believe you.

I'm with Sandye... nicely put.

I guess the wider choice is between further cultivating a rich friendship or letting it fizzle out naturally. Good luck.

Talking is always good - one way, or the other.

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Give whoever it is the courtesy of being upfront about the emotional boundaries you've placed on the relationship and avoid the temptation to use them if they are not ready to believe you

Noted

I have been in this situation more than once, and I've made the mistake of trying to force what was not there. It's simply not worth it. You should follow your gut feeling. If in the end God meant for you two to be together, it will be. But it isn't fair to the other person to perpetuate a nonexistent relationship.

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchy:
I say break up immediately. Don't "waste" the woman's time by keeping her in a relationship with you even though you are not open to all the possibilities. IMO, even if you have a serious conversation with her about your feelings, the very fact that you are staying around and continuing to share time/emotions/sex with her will give her hope that maybe you will change your mind down the line. I've been that woman kept hanging by a string, still emotionally invested in something that wasn't really there and waiting in vain. It hurts...tremendously. Be kind. Let her go.

I assume men would want to be treated with the same consideration.

Peace....

I Cosign with Frenchy....Let her go....


Peace,
Virtue

So does all of this mean that you should not spend time with anyone who you don't think you'd marry? The instant you realize that you wouldn't marry them you've got to stop interacting with them? Is that what dating is like these days?

You're dating someone who you enjoy and like but who you know there is no long term potential with. You know that they are looking for that (a LT relationship) but for you, for whatever reason, it's just not there. You like being with them. "LibDem"

The simple truth is most people that are involved with someone only out of convenience are taking advantage of the people who want more.

At some point a person should have the decency to communicate the status of the relationship. It is selfish to assume the person you've made a casual partner out of is satisfied with the current arrangement, and it is a sign of insecurity and emotional entrapment for the person that is willingly participating in an unbalanced relationship of this nature if it is not what they are seeking.

If you know the person you're involved with wants a long term relationship but you know a long-term relationship isn't what you're looking for then you should let that person go or at least refrain from sexual contact. That person deserves to find the love they are looking for regardless of what you think is best for you, otherwise you are holding that person back for your own selfish pleasure.

But aren't most relationships a bit more ambiguous in terms of each party's objective? Of course we all want to meet our "soul mate" and fall in love happliy ever after, but is it fair to presume that everyone you meet is solely looking for a spouse? Can't two people just enjoy each other and have fun without pondering each person's every word and action against some mythical criteria of potential "spousehood"?

MBM it's about not leading the person on and establishing exactly what type of relationship you two plan to have. I know people who trick others into believing they may have found a lifelong partner, just to keep them around for the money. Females are great at that.

You don't always know ahead of time who you're going to end up marrying, and sometimes that factor doesn't even play into the equation. But you can always tell whether you're compatible with someone. If that person isn't what you're looking for, get them on the friend level ASAP. It isn't fair to make them think it's going to go further than it is.

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Originally posted by MBM:
But aren't most relationships a bit more ambiguous in terms of each party's objective?

In the beginning, yes, But when you reach a point where you have put emotional boundaries on the relationship, where you have decided for yourself that this person is not "the One" or there is no future there, that needs to be communicated. And if the other person is seeking something more, you need to let them go emotionally and stop "giving them hope."

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Can't two people just enjoy each other and have fun without pondering each person's every word and action against some mythical criteria of potential "spousehood"?

Of course people can enjoy each other and just vibe and let things be what they are. But I've never met anyone who can carry on with a person like that endlessly. At some point, one of you is going to think toward the future and whether or not you want the other person to be in it, whether or not that future includes marriage. Often times, you know when the other person cares more for you than you for them. I've seen people pull this "Babe in the woods" routine of claiming to not really know how the other person felt and "we were just vibing" and blahblahbullshit because they were not finished USING the other person for whatever reason. That's foolishness, and it's heartless. You know when the dynamic has changed from being with someone to using them. Resist that temptation.

You don't just wake up one morning and realize someone is THE ONE. Your heart has to be open to it first. If your heart is shut down, locked tight with a key and combination lock, etc where this person is concerned, and you know the feeling is not mutual, let them go.

OK - since this is not an exact science - what if you don't know where your feelings are? What if you're not sure? What if you're obviously not "knocked off your feet", you know it's not love at first site, but you think there might be something there - but you're not sure?

Do you communicate that?

Also - what should a person say in the original scenario? Should they just come out and say: "You know "X", we've been seeing each other for a couple of weeks now and I just wanted you to know that, while I really enjoy spending time with you, you are NOT the one."????

What do you say?

Plus - to this issue of "using" someone, aren't ALL relationships self-serving? Aren't ALL relationships about serving one's own needs? Why would someone be in a relationship with someone if they weren't getting anything out of it? Must both parties get the exact same "value" out of a relationship for it to be a healthy and or good one?

I do think that if you are hanging with/dating someone and you know they are feeling a particular way...and you know you will NEVER feel that way about them...and it's not going to head in a serious relationship direction (and that's what the other person wants)that you should tell them. It's not always the woman who's wanting more...so whether it's the male or female who's not "feeling it"...I think they owe the other party the courtesy of being honest. We are "grown" and shouldn't be wasting other people's time if we know what they want and we can't/won't give it to them. Having said that, if you're honest with the person and you relay to them that you just don't see it happening...and they choose to continue in the friendship/relationship...then so be it. They can't ever say you led them on and made them promises you didn't keep. I think it all boils down to adults being adult enough to be honest.

MBM (why must you complicate things my brotha...) lol

Ok so maybe relationships are about benefitting and satisfying needs. But "using" and "abusing" are two different things. And no matter how you look at it, honesty is the best policy. It's true that we don't always know where we stand emotionally, but that's why it's important to be open and let the other person know our dilemma. And take things one step at a time. The issues that occur within a romantic relationship are not meant to be dealt with alone. And no, there is nothing wrong with telling someone that they are not the "One". It may hurt, but the pain will be much worse if you drag out their hopes.

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Originally posted by SistahSouljah:

MBM (why must you complicate things my brotha...)

That's my job!

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Originally posted by MBM:
OK - since this is not an exact science - what if you don't know where your feelings are? What if you're not sure?

If one is not sure, I don't think there's anything to discuss with the other person. That is a situation where two people are vibing and letting things evolve and are open to wherever it may go. But once a boundary has been erected, that's when the convos need to start.

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Also - what should a person say in the original scenario? Should they just come out and say: "You know "X", we've been seeing each other for a couple of weeks now and I just wanted you to know that, while I really enjoy spending time with you, you are NOT the one."????

Hopefully, the person would phrase it with a little more tenderness, but in essense, yes. "Mary, I have so much fun with you, but I think we're best suited as friends. Put your dress back on." "Billy, I don't think we're romantically compatible. Please stop buying me gifts. Do keep in touch." Obviously those quotes feed right into some huge stereotypes, but you catch my drift.

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Plus - to this issue of "using" someone, aren't ALL relationships self-serving? Aren't ALL relationships about serving one's own needs?

I suppose so, but the connotation of the word is different. Yes, I agree, that everyone in a relationship is doing a bit (or a lot) of "using." But I mean "using" as "taking advantage of" (in the negative way).

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Why would someone be in a relationship with someone if they weren't getting anything out of it?

I don't know about men, but I know that it is possible for women to both pursue and stay in relationships based entirely on potential and possibility. What we're getting out of it now is sometimes not at all important if we think we'll get exactly what we want in the future. Then you have a rather large number of men who say things like "She put up with all of my crap and was always there even though I treated her badly or stuck by me in the lean years, so I had to give her my heart and marry her." Women hear these things and think it may apply to their situation. Some women approach a relationship in the same way I imagine one approaches a prison sentence. You "put in your time" and then "reap the rewards." Anyhow, just saying it's not so uncommon for someone to stay in a situation they aren't getting anything out of.

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Must both parties get the exact same "value" out of a relationship for it to be a healthy and or good one?

I think both people's individual needs have to be met or at the very least paid attention to for it to be a healthy/good relationship.