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quote:
WHEN DID IT BECOME "STUPID" OR "UNREASONABLE" TO EXPECT MONOGAMY?


For those of us that respect relationships and/or ourselves ... No wait I have that backwards ... ourselves and/or our relationships, it didn't.

Can anyone spell rationalization. Man put it out there to capitalize on insecurity woman; and woman put it out there because they are settling for something less than what they want. JMHO munch
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Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
WHEN DID IT BECOME "STUPID" OR "UNREASONABLE" TO EXPECT MONOGAMY?

Can we please discuss this. Why is it so acceptable for people to "share" a mate? Why is that the norm, today?


Who says it is?? Confused

I didn't get the memo!! Big Grin

Share a mate?? karate stck


Ebony-This seems to be the expectation on the dating scene nowadays. "I'm still dealing with my baby mama but I wanna kick it with you, too." Huh? NOT. I want my own. I play backup quarterback to NO ONE! LOL
Speaking contraceptively... why ARE there all these 'baby mamas' in the first place? Are any/many of them married, or have women stopped using their own contraception and are relying on condoms or Eek not using ANY form of contraception at all?

Would someone please explain at what stage of these ill-fated relationships - and why - a baby arrives on the scene? It's not all about abstinence from sex, isn't it also about thinking through the responsibilities of raising a child before having one.
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
Ebony-This seems to be the expectation on the dating scene nowadays. "I'm still dealing with my baby mama but I wanna kick it with you, too." Huh? NOT. I want my own. I play backup quarterback to NO ONE! LOL


Oh my mercy!! Eek I didn't know! I suppose as a sign of the times things would have to be like that, considering parents being stretched far and wide as they are. Roll Eyes

I don't think it's "stupid" or "unreasonable" to expect monogamy. Just know that it's the needle in the haystack that you're looking for! If more people were monogamous, there wouldn't be as many baby-mommmas. sck
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Originally posted by FireFly:
Speaking contraceptively... why ARE there all these 'baby mamas' in the first place? Are any/many of them married, or have women stopped using their own contraception and are relying on condoms or Eek not using ANY form of contraception at all?

Would someone please explain at what stage of these ill-fated relationships - and why - a baby arrives on the scene? It's not all about abstinence from sex, isn't it also about thinking through the responsibilities of raising a child before having one.


It should be ... but more often than not it's not. And a lot of times a parent to be has no clue of what it means or what it's going to take to be a parent.

Of course this is not rue in all cases, but, there are a lot of women out there who's only "thought" before conception is:

1) I want a baby.
2) I want the man.
3) I want the man and the baby.

And the next thing is to make it happen. Planned sex (as opposed to heat-of-the-moment sex) without conceptives usually does the trick!!

You'd have to be a moron not to know that there is a possibility of pregnancy when you have sex without protection ... so, "I didn't know" doesn't fly ... as the male or female's excuse, so it's probably more a case of Russian roulette where you take the odds that "it won't happen this time.

Also, a lof of women don't always know a bad relationship when they're in one. Or, a bad relationship is better than no relationship at all. For a lot of our less mature young women, a baby will fix everything ... make the relationship all better. It oftentimes breaks it up ... but that's after the fact and, let's face it, this is one of those "irreversible" occurrences. sck But since there was no plan to start with, a thought like that certainly couldn't have been part of it. But suddenly you have another single-parent household. Roll Eyes
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Originally posted by EbonyRose:

Oh my mercy!! Eek I didn't know! I suppose as a sign of the times things would have to be like that, considering parents being stretched far and wide as they are. Roll Eyes

I don't think it's "stupid" or "unreasonable" to expect monogamy. Just know that it's the needle in the haystack that you're looking for! If more people were monogamous, there wouldn't be as many baby-mommmas. sck


You would not believe the stupid things I hear when I refuse the #2 position. I mean, I have even heard that if I don't eventually accept something like that, I will be by myself because what I am looking for (MONOGAMY) doesn't exist!! Eek Can you believe that? My response? "Well, I will just be by myself. At least that way I will ALWAYS be first!"
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
You would not believe the stupid things I hear when I refuse the #2 position. I mean, I have even heard that if I don't eventually accept something like that, I will be by myself because what I am looking for (MONOGAMY) doesn't exist!! Eek


stuff that!! Razz that's what they want you to believe Roll Eyes

I think the bottom line is... if a guy/man really likes you and truly wants you there is no way in hell he will 'share' you with any other man. nono
Just to qualify that... I'm talking quality men, not easy-cum-easy-go. Smile

OK I'll let the guys here back me up or disagreee....
.
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
You would not believe the stupid things I hear when I refuse the #2 position. I mean, I have even heard that if I don't eventually accept something like that, I will be by myself because what I am looking for (MONOGAMY) doesn't exist!! Eek Can you believe that? My response? "Well, I will just be by myself. At least that way I will ALWAYS be first!"


I have heard that too, One! And I don't believe it, either. Granted, it will be harder to find your monogamous man these days, but not impossible.

You'll kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince .. but don't settle for sitting on a toad stool when you can have the castle! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by The one and only ME:
WHEN DID IT BECOME "STUPID" OR "UNREASONABLE" TO EXPECT MONOGAMY?

Can we please discuss this. Why is it so acceptable for people to "share" a mate? Why is that the norm, today?


One of my former college friends, with whom I recently connected, told me that she is getting married to a man who has a total of four children by four different women - And no, I'm not making this up. And she recently divorced a man with whom she had two children who also had children outside of their marriage. Apparently, women have "man-shared" all the while; they were either unaware of their boyfriend's relationships with other women or have accepted infidelity in exchange for a masculine presence in the home and personal companionship. In either case, this is becoming a serious problem in our community. As a teacher, I am witnessing the impact that these inconsistent, multiple, and conflicting relationships have on children. Many of them have no idea who is the primary adult in the home, who establishes routine or rules in the home, who to respect, or who to go to for help.

Our community is suffering. I do not want this conversation to turn into yet another Black male-bashing discussion, but the issues of unemployement, illiteracy (which is the result of poor education and leads to being unqualified for high-paying jobs), and lack of community support of African American men needs to be addressed. Many women find themselves welcoming and accepting these poor excuses of men into their lives and into their children lives because in their communities that is all that is available. The quality of our communities needs to be raised in general. We have got to do better. We need better education systems that stress the importance of obtaining READING skills, and among other things, our community needs better housing, health care facilities, and reliable resources.
he is getting married to a man who has a total of four children by four different women - And no, I'm not making this up. And she recently divorced a man with whom she had two children who also had children outside of their marriage.

When will you ever hold woman accountable for the decisions they make, obviously these men are not making children by themselves. What does it say about the women in these situations?

I do not want this conversation to turn into yet another Black male-bashing discussion, but the issues of unemployement, illiteracy (which is the result of poor education and leads to being unqualified for high-paying jobs), and lack of community support of African American men needs to be addressed. Many women find themselves welcoming and accepting these poor excuses of men into their lives and into their children lives because in their communities that is all that is available.

The issue goes far beyond simple education and literacy, it has a lot to do with the structure of the African American family nowadays, the deindustrialization of the cities, the black flight issue and the fact that black women are more acceptable in mainstream society, and often black men who are educated and qualified for certain jobs are often overlooked not given a chance and expected to settle for jobs below their talent level. how do you think this makes black men feel? sure there has to be alot done about the prison rate and the drop out rate. but lets be real black men have to be given the opportunities to succeed. The fact of the matter is black women have many more safety nets than black men do.
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Originally posted by ZAKAR:
he is getting married to a man who has a total of four children by four different women - And no, I'm not making this up. And she recently divorced a man with whom she had two children who also had children outside of their marriage.

When will you ever hold woman accountable for the decisions they make, obviously these men are not making children by themselves. What does it say about the women in these situations?
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I think I see Rowe's point-- the woman is marrying the man; she has nothing to do w/the women he fathered the children by. But I do question why Rowe's friend is marrying a man with 4 kids by 4 women? I'm not saying he can't change (or hasn't, necessarily) but if she rolls in later with a sad story saying "he did her foul" ....well can you really say she didn't see it coming?

I think the dominant point is that we all have to make better choices.
Well, that depends on how you mean that.

If you mean "as a people", then absolutely not. I consider Black men victims of a racist society, which is an overriding external reason as a defense. Smile

If you're talking "relationship" wise ... well ... no, I don't blame y'all ... but it is your fault! Razz

The way I see it, men just don't get it until, well, at least their late 20's .. and really, I think 30 is being generous. I mean really understand what the relationship thing is really all about. And a lot of women just don't understand that and they end up not quite knowing what to do with you, and it causes a lot of friction that wouldn't be there if men would just act right in the beginning. Things would probably go a lot more smoothly! Big Grin

IMHO
quote:
Originally posted by Zakar: When will you ever hold woman accountable for the decisions they make, obviously these men are not making children by themselves. What does it say about the women in these situations?


The purpose of my response, Brother Zakar, was not to assign blame to anyone. The topic is about sharing mates, right? And so that readers can get exposure to a real-life situation that involves mate-sharing, I provided an example of a situation in which four women were sharing a man and these women may or may not have been aware of it.

quote:
Sure there has to be alot done about the prison rate and the drop out rate. but lets be real black men have to be given the opportunities to succeed. The fact of the matter is black women have many more safety nets than black men do.


Precisely! And if you re-read my last reponse, you will see that I clearly made the argument that Black men are NOT given the community support that they need in the areas of education, health care, employment, law enforcement... Therefore, rather than become defensive, let's acknowledge that we agree that this issue goes far beyond relationships and that Black men need to be given opportunities to succeed so that they can make positive contributions to their families and the community in general.
quote:
Originally posted by TruthSeeker:
I think I see Rowe's point-- the woman is marrying the man; she has nothing to do w/the women he fathered the children by. But I do question why Rowe's friend is marrying a man with 4 kids by 4 women? I'm not saying he can't change (or hasn't, necessarily) but if she rolls in later with a sad story saying "he did her foul" ....well can you really say she didn't see it coming?

I think the dominant point is that we all have to make better choices.


Indeed. However, based upon her background and the state of her mentality and consciousness, you would understand why she is making these kinds of choices in men. First of all, her father had a history of cheating on her mom. In fact, her mom made the recent decision to divorce her dad just after she graduated from college. So unfortunately, she did not grow up observing and interacting with a father who is committed to his family. Perhaps her first observation of her father's behavior has shaped her ideas of what kind of behaviors are acceptable from men. In any event, she claims that this new man is willing to do anything for her and that he is very supportive of her children.
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Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I got a simple question for you women, and I want you all to be truely honest. At the end of the day do you hold black men principally responsible for the situation we are in as people? Deep down do you think its the men's fault?


Brother Zakar, I think you're becoming very defensive. The conversation is still young, and you are already getting annoyed with the responses that you are reading. Again, no one is assigning blame to Black men. And to answer your question about Black men being responsible for where we as a people, my answer is no. I think any intelligent (or conscious person) acknowledges that Black men cannot be held accountable for the plight of African Americans.

Though I will say this: I believe the majority of Americans in general are adopting lifestyles, behaviors, and habits that are not conducive to maintainig a healthy community. And these lifestyles are not helping the most vulnerable groups in our community, which are poor minorities. On this site and whenever possible, I am always emphasizing the importance of eating well, abstaining from recreational relationships, and adopting some kind of value system. But based on what I'm hearing out of the mouths of folks lately, I believe that people are just not doing it. Instead, they are having sex with multiple partners without protection, eating garbage for food, having children out of wedlock, killing one another over stupidity, in the streets acting like fools, and just doing a lot of things without thinking. Then, we sit around and wonder why the quality of our relationships with one another is suffering.
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Do you think all of this is happening in a vaccum? Its easy to diagnose the symptoms, what is the cause? What are so many blacks acting this way, are they amoral, is something genetically wrong with black people that makes them make such bad sources? why are so many blacks unemployed and poor?, why so much poverty in the black community? Until you deal with the root of these problems we will never resolve them. Its easy to point the blame , but seriously analyzing the causes and understand the reasons why requires deeper thought.
Of course im being defensive, just by the nature of the position we are in makes us defensive, dont you understand that? Whe are in a defensive position as a group. My whole point is we are in a war, have been for centuries unti we recognize there is an all out assault on us as a people then we will always misdiagnose the problem.

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