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What are we striving for as a people here in America? What do we realistically think we can achieve as a group here in this country? Is true equality a reality? Surely it's not "color blindness" - but what do we want? One could certainly make the argument that as the rich continue to exploit the poor, that poor whites will increasingly turn against blacks to express their frustration (link). So it is not far fetched to think that race relations might get worse at some point in the future. Surely things like affirmative action are defintely ripe to be excised from the American political landscape.

What is at the end of the rainbow for African America? Do we think we will ever generate the leverage to get America to grant us a homeland? Reparations? Will we get to the point where we will ever have equal access to the "American Dream"? Ever? Confused

Are we really striving for something or are we on a treadmill - constantly moving but going nowhere? What are we doing? Where are we going?

What do you think?

© MBM

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The American Dream is a neurotic delusion for stupid White people.

You can go to a lot of Black websites and see thread after thread about racism. Economics is more important than racism. I would rather have my home payed for and $200,000 in the bank and live next door to a White racist than live in a Black neighborhood and pay rent to a White man even it the White man was a really nice guy.

When do our Black leaders talk about seeing tha ALL BLACK AMERICANS having their homes payed for and stop paying these NAZIs to live on this land they annihilated the Indians to steal?

Economics is about POWER! Black people without economic power are LOOSERS! Talking about racism is a waste of TIME.

umbrarchist
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:

Should be even be striving to achieve the American dream? Or should we create our own vision seperate and outside of America?


That's what I'm asking. What are we moving toward? What should we be dreaming of?


I don't believe in the American Dream. I'm with Umbra in that my goal personally is to achieve economic stability. This is * achievable *. The American Dream - to the extent that 'equality' requires acceptance - is not.

quote:

What is at the end of the rainbow for African America? Do we think we will ever generate the leverage to get America to grant us a homeland? Reparations? Will we get to the point where we will ever have equal access to the "American Dream"? Ever?


Any kind of leverage will only come from $$$-power. We can demonstrate how moral, how intellectually brilliant, trustworthy, and capable we are until we're blue in the face. Hardcore whitey will still demand more proof. So that by no means should be the goal.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:

The American Dream is a neurotic delusion for stupid White people.


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

I don't believe in the American Dream.


Well, what does the American Dream mean to you? To most I would think it is a good job, a family, a home, a car. What is wrong with that? Aren't you striving for those things? Don't you want MORE money in your bank account rather than LESS?
quote:

Well, what does the American Dream mean to you? To most I would think it is a good job, a family, a home, a car. What is wrong with that? Aren't you striving for those things? Don't you want MORE money in your bank account rather than LESS?


Let's not talk about a family (I've had that discussion elsewhere) - but if all we're talking about is material goods: car, money, home, job, etc. then sure this stuff is attainable for many of us. Yes I desire economic security and believe it can be achieved - at least speaking for myself.

But is that all people mean when they talk about the American Dream? Aren't there all sorts of other warm fuzzy connotations that attach to the term?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
What do we realistically think we can achieve as a group here in this country? Is true equality a reality?


Hundred years ago, when Blacks were having their bodies hung from trees, their testicles hacked off, and basic rights taken from them on a daily basis, I'm sure someone had pondered this very same question: "What can Black people realistically expect to achieve in this country?" Now, because of our ancestors' unwaivering faith and sacrifice, everyone everywere is asking themselves: What can't those Black people realistically achieve in this country? Black people have survived the worst treatment that any group on the planet has ever endured, and despite the problems that we see in poor Black communities, we remain a optimistic and goal-oriented people. We should be telling ourselves everyday that we are not only THE American Dream, we represent the World's Dream.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Now, because of our ancestors' unwaivering faith and sacrifice, everyone everywere is asking themselves: What can't those Black people realistically achieve in this country? Black people have survived the worst treatment that any group on the planet has ever endured, and despite the problems that we see in poor Black communities, we remain a optimistic and goal-oriented people. We should be telling ourselves everyday that we are not only THE American Dream, we represent the World's Dream.


You must have been reading my mind Rowe, you took the words right out of my mouth. I've always felt that the American Dream was my dream, your dream, anyone's dream, what ever dream that is. This is the country where it can happen. No matter how bad things get, we always push through because we have a hope for something better. America has a sense of hope that I think is gone in most of the rest of the world. Despite all our short-commings I believe we a blessed.
This is a graph of the bankruptcy rate for the United States. Notice on the left that it is not linear, near the bottom it is 100, near the top it is 10,000. This is the American dream in the REAL WORLD.



Since Christmas I have emailed 1200 economists about this ignoring consumer depreciation business. I have gotten back 5 responses. One of them said my information was "interesting." They can't solve a grammar school algebra problem for 50 years and it's "interesting."

umbrarchist
I can live with K41's reply i.e. equal reward for equal effort.

I know what the 'end of the rainbow' is, but my ultimate expectation of America is societal parity.

Not equality, but parity.

And we have the key to that, not European-Americans.

It appears we will be a long, long time achieving 'equal reward for equal effort'.

We will not even demand equal treatment under the law.

What can we expect???

That is more on point.

PEACE

Jim Chester
First off, I think it's important for everyone to assess and reassess their goals frequently. Because life, and our lives don't remain static. So it is a great question to ask of ourselves - what is our version of the American (or Australian) dream?

Wanting a house (territory), a car (mobility), and income (security) is fine, however the perception and reality of the so-called American Dream depend entirely on the person dreaming the dream.

OK call me a wet blanket but...

A lot of people relocate to the USA (consciously or unconsciously) purely for economic reasons rather than altruistic ones. No crime in doing that if it is financial betterment rather yearning for a mega-greed lifestyle. Who cares about them, you ask? Well, that is the 'picture' (money=wealth and happiness on certain terms) the US media loves and wants spin to the rest of the planet. The days of people looking at the US as the land of liberty and warm fuzzy things is over. Suepr-consumers dream of going to the US to make lotsa money, others celebrate living somewhere else. This is the 'dream' that GW and his Hollywood cronies perpetuate. This is how 'we' see the USA because that is how it's presented by your media.

Hope really rests in each individual.

The USA may be full of hope, Black Viking (seriously, is it? I hope so! I 'see' more fear and disillusionment expressed these days than hope??), but it has become the leader as the land of enmasse mega-comsumption, and the mega-consumer. Of natural resources, of talent, of money.

And as we all know, not everyone gets a piece of the pie. Although not everyone wants a piece of that particular Greed pie.

My conern is when people of other nationalities go to the USA in search of the Hollywood Dream which is what the American Dream seems to have morphed into. Along the way they can so easily and WILLINGLY 'lose' their own cultural identity in the race to keep up with the right car, right income, right house, and the right plethora of consumer goods. In short, the American MegaConsumers' Dream.

I certainly hope I'm totally wrong. Smile
Convince me. Rowe certainly has.
.
Folks, respectfully, it seems that the conversation is focusing on something that was only a minor detail in the question. Instead of arguing about whether we should embrace some nebulous concept like the American Dream - please answer what we should be focusing on, what we should be dreaming about. Who cares what it is called, what is it that we should aspire to in the first place?
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:

This is a graph of the bankruptcy rate for the United States. Notice on the left that it is not linear, near the bottom it is 100, near the top it is 10,000. This is the American dream in the REAL WORLD.



Since Christmas I have emailed 1200 economists about this ignoring consumer depreciation business. I have gotten back 5 responses. One of them said my information was "interesting." They can't solve a grammar school algebra problem for 50 years and it's "interesting."

umbrarchist


I'm not sure what you are asking. Clearly there is a positive correlation between consumer debt and bankruptcy. That that correlation increases exponentially with greater debt is intuitive. What specifically are you asking?

"consumer depreciation business"? Are you just noting that consumers are, on average, buying more "stuff" now than before and financing it with consumer debt? Are you inferring that the whole idea of the American Dream is something that is designed to advance consumerism and therefore we mortgage our financial health and futures to "buy" it? What? bsm
ok MBM... here's a start. Hope it's not too abstract or nebulous a list. Wink

Freedom of speech and opinion.
Freedom to make choices.
Equal rights for everyone.
Accessiblity to quality healthcare for all.
Inclusion for all in the workplace and education system. Including language, culture.
A culture of ethical business.
Religious freedom.
Quality education for all.
Respect for everyone.
Equal opportunity.
Shared responsibility.
.
that's all I can come up with right now.

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