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I listen to a lot of right wing (Nazi) radio; and on several occasions people (and I assume most if not all of them to be white) add as an aside from their respective comments, that they are "Proud Southerners"....

I interpret that to mean "God Bless the Confederacy" or "God Bless Jefferson Davis/ Robert E. Lee"..

What do ya'll think?
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Yep...they are some proud azz backwoods, inbred racist motherf-kers..and since they are not much as human beings.....standing for all that racist schit is the only way to realize some form of self-adequacy (I guess from the power they THINK they have when they can get a rise out of black people with their open displays of hatred). But if they really knew what people thought of them and what some would like to do to them...they would be scared schitless..and really go back to hiding behind masks........
Mmmmmmm

A parent at my child's school is a brother from Mississippi. He is "proud" to be from the "Sipp". He talks glowingly about his home state. He talks about how my family should come down to "Tunica" for our next vaction.

I would label him a "Proud Southerner".

Living in the North when I was growing up me and my brothers used to spend our summers in the South. While we had good friends among the people in my grandmother's community in South Carolina there was always the "Southern guys" who would want to test us. They didn't like us "yankees" coming down to the South. We had to test both our basketball skills and at times our fighting skills against these "Proud Southerners". (They wrestle and we stand toe to toe so you had to watch out for the tackle that was coming your way).

I don't think that you can limit "Southern Pride" to White folks. There are distinct cultures around the entire USA. When I was in college the people from NYC had a certain pride about their hometown and tended to stick with the people who were from there as well.
I agree with Constructive Feedback that "Southern Pride" is not exclusively white thing. In general:

The South = charm, friendliness, slower pace, traditional values
The North = diversity, street/business savvy, fast pace, non-traditional acceptance

A racist would certainly value other things the South is notorious for, but I don't jump to the "racist" conclusion simply hearing someone wax poetic about The South.
Thank you Blaqfist.......go to any parade labeled anything close to "Southern Pride" and see what you are in for. I bet it will not be the most diverse thing ya was looking for. I doubt like hell you wll find black people celebrating too much beyond Juneteenth....why would they? Hell, most southerners mean some shit relating to the Confederacy and Civil War and all that antebellum BS when they talk about the "good ole days" when the south was "strong". That is why they romanticize plantations as places of suthern culture and beauty....horrible sonfoabitches. Anyone who tauts a local culture in a globalized society is kinda hickish anyway... You would think diversity cancelled all of that out......since we have Asians and Hispanics and Middle Easterners in places like Utah and Idahoand the South .....that were racially monolithic previously.....
Yeah......you can pretty much infer that when white folk exclaim that they are 'proud southerners'...ESPECIALLY ON RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO, -- they mean something much differnt than just saying that they are 'genteel individuals proud of the region of the country that they call home'. Like blaqfist, I pay attention to a lot of 'rightwing, conservative media (just to keep on top of their propaganda, what sorts of things they are scheming, and generally their BullChit de'jour) and I assure you.....when they declair that they are 'proud southerners'- that simply is code for "I Have a Particular disdain for Blacks, Jews, Homosexuals and just about every ethnic minority in the country". Ya'll better recognize !!
quote:
To that end, I think such a proclamation means pride in the repressive laws and practices of 'The South' against African American-Americans.



JWC,

You stated it best.....go to any "suthern" pride parade and you will see an abundance of confederate flags and that other racist symbology BS. Scalder, I listen to right-wing radio sometimes myself when I am out and about between meetings, KRLA870...then I listen to KPFK-Democracy Now...to get a good black perspective in......but the right wingers are some racist sonfoabitches....that is why they will get avowed racists like mark furhman to talk about crime and mention OJ,Kobe and MJ all in one breath...like the show is some black man crime special or something. How black people affiliate themselves with the right amazes me...they must be really trying to be anti-black in thought....since they cannot change their complexion..but based on the social realities that blkCons deny and gloss over to appease the white racists on the right....proves they are tormented individuals internally.....man that must be difficult to hate who you are...........
quote:
go to any "suthern" pride parade and you will see an abundance of confederate flags
---K41

We should note that when we have our celebrations we never wave a banner that is unique to us.

I know I 'hammer' this all the time, but here my point is that we do little or nothing to change the language of our society to improve our standing in society.

As you noted about the talk show people, they take every opportunity to demean, degrade, demote, detract from, us.

I can't make others see the value of a banner unique to us.

I sure wish I could.

You would simply complaining would 'get old'.

I can tell you from experience when such a banner is raised in a public place it sets 'them' on fire!!!!!

And...I am so proud it feels like I'm about to burst.


PEACE

Jim Chester
For me growing up black in the South is kind of a schizophrenic experience. For example, I remember going to Boy Scout national jamboree in 1976. One evening during the affair they had a North vs. South cheer rally. It soon devolved into kind of a verbal reenactment of the Civil War. I soon found myself caught up yelling against those "ignorant Yankees" when a white friend of mine turned to me and asked me what I was doing. He asked me, "Shouldn't you be cheering for the other side? If it had not been for the North winning the war, slavery might have never ended." Whether his assertion has an historical value on its face, I experienced a kind of cognitive dissonance. Could one possibly be both a Southern and black?

Almost 30 years later, I never refer to myself as a Southerner. I say that I am from the South and at present I live in the South. There are aspects of the culture in which I was raised that I take pride in, but I will never say that I am a "proud Southerner" and do not know personally any African Americans that use that language. Unless they were using for a particular rhetorical affect, I would assume a black person who adopted the term to be some kind of "Uncle Tom" or "Aunt Jemima".
Kevin, that's exactly what I was going to say! I visited Dallas/Ft Worth on the 4th of July, and I noticed that everyone (everybody black, anyway, since that was all I really hung around on that brief weekend with family & friends) seemed to call Texas "the South." Isn't Texas really more the West? Mexico had most of that area under it's cultural influence for much of the time that the "Southerner" culture was developing in the "South." I think more of cattle and cowboys than I do plantations when I think Texas. Is that not the right conception?
You are correct Vox, just like Oregon is labeled the Pacific Northwest as opposed to the west like Calif......hell if one takes a look around out there....they will see Southwest airlines, bank of the southwest and many other designations as the SW and not the South...I think Texas even became a confederate state through some default action and was not even trying to be a part of it....hell they were too busy trying to be the republic of texas with their own currency and capital and president.....but no it is not the South....and I have to correct these people out here on it all of the time..........
I believe that Texas is considered part of the South as its loyality during the civil war rested with the southern states, while I'm sure that some texans fought for the north the majority fought for the south.

My family roots are in Mississippi, (Cleveland, Clarksdale area) as are my wife's (Greenville) and while we both take pride in aspects of southern living and enjoy going back home, I think both of understand that Proud Southerner is used to describe a certain segment of the population that long for the days of old.

Put it this way, in the entire time I have lived, visited and went to college in the south, I never met a black person who described themselves as "proud southerners", they loved the south and wouldn't live any place else but that is about where the distinction would end.
I was born and raised in Tennessee. After my B.S. at Vanderbilt, I lived in California, New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I have been in Houston for 2 years. I agree with jazzdog, Texas is very much socially and culturallythe South, at least the eastern part of the state. Rice, where I am currently doing doctoral studies, was the last major university in the South to integrate. It was a slave state, it was a part of the Confederacy (several of the states were conflicted over cecession), they still lynch black folk (e.g., James Byrd), practice structural racism (remember Tulia, TX not to mention the enormous number of us in the prison system down here.)

My sister lives in Phoenix, AZ. That is the Southwest; that has a different vibe.
quote:
The question about the self-declaration of a (white) Southern.


In the end YOU CAN'T MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT PEOPLE.

I recall earlier this summer by buddy (a Black man) purchased a used bass boat and I went on the lake with him the second time he brought the boat out. His engine would not start and we were down for the count after driving about 1.5 hours to get to this lake.

After seeing us struggling 2 GOOD OLE BOYS came over and offered to assist us with the engine. From the looks of them I would have not spoken to them and would have taken them for racists. They spent about 45 minutes working to get the engine turned over. The one guy got in his boat, went across the lake to get more marine oil from his house and filled up my buddy's engine. There was a problem with the oil overflow valve and he took out his time to help us. These two guys fit the classic mode of the "Southerners" that you talk about. I WILL TELL YOU FIRST HAND that there are some RACISTS in the South and they will let you know IT!

I don't think that it is any more healthy to stereotype them as you don't want BLACKS stereotyped by THE MINORITY of us.

(Oh crap!!!! I just gave Nmaginate another story to use against me. From this HE will gather that I believe that there is no racism in the world based on the actions of TWO White guys. "We gave overcome" based on their filling up some oil in a Black man's boat. bang)
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
I was born and raised in Tennessee. After my B.S. at Vanderbilt, I lived in California, New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I have been in Houston for 2 years. I agree with jazzdog, Texas is very much socially and culturallythe South, at least the eastern part of the state. Rice, where I am currently doing doctoral studies, was the last major university in the South to integrate. It was a slave state, it was a part of the Confederacy (several of the states were conflicted over cecession), they still lynch black folk (e.g., James Byrd), practice structural racism (remember Tulia, TX not to mention the enormous number of us in the prison system down here.)

My sister lives in Phoenix, AZ. That is the Southwest; that has a different vibe.


Yeah...you're right...all that schit is the same.....including arizona.....the only state en masse not to want an MLK holiday...the desert areas are known for skinhead and satanist activities...if one has ever lived in the desert they know what I mean...a different breed.......what are ya studying at Rice? That is like the Ivy League school of that part of the country.......If it were not for PVA&M, my kinfolks and a progressive black core of Texans that are striving to be on a higher....i'd probably would not go back as much....I was born in galveston and if you read the history of integration there and houston....it was much different and more peaceful overall than the rest of the south....and even parts of calif....I guess there was not too much southern about my upbringing...food, mannerisms or otherwise..being from that galveston region.......that part of texas was international and sending blacks to college as far back as the 1880's....when the rest of texas was just sticks...........
Proud to be from the "Dirty South" calls to mind something completely different for me.

I wonder if age is not a significant factor in this. A young person who feels proud to be from the South is probably more inclined to be referring to the genteel way of life than the South's racist history. Different areas have come to have different reputations at different points in time. "Proud Floridian" calls to mind something completely different than it would've prior to the 2000 presidential election. I don't think I've ever referred to myself as a "Proud Southerner" but I know that I've definitely said that I love the South and viewing the quality of life as better than in the Northern states, which is basically being a Proud Southerner.

Bottom line is I think you have to put the phrase in context before you draw any conclusions about the person who's saying it.
CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK:
In the end YOU CAN'T MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT PEOPLE.

Of course... Only you have those privileges... a la "BLPF", School Busing, etc., etc.

I don't think that it is any more healthy to stereotype them as you don't want BLACKS stereotyped by THE MINORITY of us.

I see rank stupidity is your forte!

Oh crap!!!! I just gave Nmaginate another story to use against me.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh!!!! STFU!!!!!
No one said, suggested, asserted or claimed that ALL WHITES ARE RACISTS, Will Hang A N@gger In A Minute or any such thing for you to ever say something so retard and ridiculous.

Perhaps in your little DUMB ASS mind, at some point, you thought EVERY White person was out to get you... but that is/was your DUMB ASS mind. DUMB ASS!!! You are not the only Black person to ever meet, talk to and/or have decent encounter with White people. So save your irrelevant BULLSHIT (based on your patently stupid assumptions to begin with)... save your BS for some White people or whoever thinks in the same simple (as in terribly simplistic) Black/White and extreme-to-extreme manner you do.

I'll be glad when you stop your DEFERENCE and DEFENSE... and when you stop Insulting The Collective Intelligence of the members of this board.

I WILL TELL YOU FIRST HAND that there are some RACISTS in the South and they will let you know IT!

And I hope you know you're about as trustworthy as a Used Car Salesman. Besides that, WHY IN THE FUCK do you think anyone gives a shit about what you can or will vouch for?

"I will tell you first hand..."

STFU!!! Your experiences on shit we all have experiences with DON'T AMOUNT TO SHIT!! STFU!!! Think before you speak and don't call my name until I have spoken to you!

And... WHY ARE YOU STILL CRYING ABOUT HOW YOU PLAYED YOURSELF?? sck
I have to agree that usually when a white person on a conservative talk show says it, they probably are using it as 'code' for something else, however, not all whites mean it that way and as an African American from the south, I often say that I am proud to be southern.

Sometimes when southers make that statement, it is meant in the same context as when African Americans say 'I'm Black and I'm proud, almost for sort of parallel reasons, as in southerners for a long time were thought to be such ignorant, backward people, and while it was and still is for some, it has never been true for all, but just like African Americans, southerners have been stero-typed. Discounting the southerners that are merely speaking in racist code, most, including myself only mean that they are proud to be southern.

As far as Texas, etc. being in the south, that also depends on the perspective and it is also carry over from past perspectives----during the civil war era, anything below the "mason/dixon" line was considered in the south. Now, some southerners still philosophically think of anything below the mason/dixon line the south, some just don't know where the south technically begins and ends, some don't care---it seems to all be a matter of opinion down south and technically unofficial, except where 'officials' are concerned.

My mother considers Maryland 'down south' and some people from Maryland consider themselves to be northerners, while other think of themselves as southerner.

Another thing that is funny about southerners, is that each state thinks the other is more 'country' or backwards or racist than their own state.
I think Texas even became a confederate state through some default action and was not even trying to be a part of it....hell they were too busy trying to be the republic of texas with their own currency and capital and president.....but no it is not the South....and I have to correct these people out here on it all of the time..........---K41

Not trying to start controversy, but...

Texas solicited 'people with slaves' to build population to achieve Statehood under the requirements of The Union.

I really have no idea about accidental membership in The Confederacy.

But Texas didn't have to stay.

But it did.

Texas is/was a Confederate State.

By choice.

You may have noticed that Texas is one of the States who has BOTH of its Senators refusing to co-sponsor the recent Resolution on Lynching.

I think, without going to look, Texas is also one of the States STILL refusing to comply with the Voting Rights Act.

She is still 'holding strong.'

Be she 'South' or 'West' she is of 'The Confederacy' to the bone.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I'm in Killafornia and let me tell you, everyone down here is packing their bags and heading to the south. My aunt says she's soon to be off to Georgia or Louisiana, and my neighbor is on his way to Mississippi. They all say, "the south is the place to BE".

They are not looking at it's past. Apparently that area of the nation is booming in more ways than one, and the price of living is cheaper. I think the median price of a house in Orange County, CA runs over 600,000. The crime rate is ridiculous. Here in my city, murders are up 65% from last year. They found 4 bodies at the park on the same day two months ago.

My point is, alot of people just aren't looking at the history of the south. Especially coming from where I'm from, Smile I guess alot of folks figure they'll deal with the racism they'll face. They don't see how it's any different from out here. Plus, in a place like Atlanta, (which looks more like the lost city of Atlantis to the rest of us, thanks to BET) they don't even think twice about the negative side effects.
quote:
In the end YOU CAN'T MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT PEOPLE.


Of course you can generalize, the white men that helped you and your friend are exceptions to the general rule. Generalizations are not absolutes! The majority of white folk that talk that southern pride B.S. are on some racist B.S. You knew that but your swiftness to point out good in white folks coupled with your swiftness to point out evil in Black folk was clouding your mind.
Faheem,

This kind of says it indirectly....notice what they had the white southerner in the movie say about the stars and bars...by the way JWC, was never a Texas flag....i'm not defending schit....just getting it correct....interesting article below:

'Dukes of Hazzard' Take On Confederate Flag
Compiled by the DiversityInc staff

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 2005 DiversityInc.com

August 04, 2005

The movie version of "The Dukes of Hazzard" has a lot of what you would expect: plenty of close-ups of Jessica Simpson's rear end and shots of the famous car, the General Lee. But it also makes a statement about the Confederate flag, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports.

In the film, which opens tomorrow, cousins Bo and Luke Duke find themselves stuck in Atlanta traffic, where the huge Confederate flag painted on the roof of their car is attacked. "Join us in the 21st century!" a woman in an SUV yells. "Hurry up, you're late for your Klan meeting!" comes from a carload of blacks.

There also is support: "Yee haw! Southern by the grace of God!" says a trucker.


"Dukes" director and co-writer Jay Chandrasekhar said he and his team discussed leaving the flag out of the movie or replacing it with the American flag. "It's a complicated symbol," he says. "I know how some people feel about it, but there were certain things I wasn't gonna change. I wasn't gonna change Daisy's shorts and Boss Hogg's suits, and I certainly wasn't gonna touch the car. I felt the flag had to be on the roof. It would have been even more controversial to take the flag off the car."
quote:
Not trying to start controversy, but...

Texas solicited 'people with slaves' to build population to achieve Statehood under the requirements of The Union.

I really have no idea about accidental membership in The Confederacy.

But Texas didn't have to stay.

But it did.

Texas is/was a Confederate State.

By choice.

You may have noticed that Texas is one of the States who has BOTH of its Senators refusing to co-sponsor the recent Resolution on Lynching.

I think, without going to look, Texas is also one of the States STILL refusing to comply with the Voting Rights Act.

She is still 'holding strong.'

Be she 'South' or 'West' she is of 'The Confederacy' to the bone.




**I hear ya JWC......this is what I was referring to....I knew there was some controversy over Texas and the Confederacy:

Republic of Texas & the Confederacy


The Lone Star flag flew triumphantly for nearly a decade, from 1836 to 1845, over the Republic of Texas, a nation that was officially recognized by the United States and Europe but not Mexico. Six different sites served as the Texas capital until the town of Austin finally won out in 1839. The government, based on the U.S. model, had a president, a senate, and a house of representatives, army, navy, and militia. Yet the new republic faced some daunting problems, such as boundary disputes, debt, and concerns about Mexican attack. Unable to solve those by itself, the republic accepted U.S. annexation, and Texas became the 28th state in 1845, ceding some western lands (parts of modern-day Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Colorado) to the Union. Mexico terminated diplomatic relations with the United States; the Mexican War ended with Mexico's surrender to the United States in 1848 and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which rejected Mexican claims on Texas and the southwest.

But there was more tumult to come. Texas joined the Confederate States of America, seceding from the United States in January 1861. Texas sided with the Confederacy during the Civil War, though support was not unanimous among leaders. Gov. Sam Houston chose to resign rather than back the Confederate states. About 90,000 Texans saw military service, and the Texas economy was left in shambles. After the end of the Civil War, Texas -- after ratifying the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments -- officially rejoined the Union in March 1870.

**Same thing:

Although Texas joined the Confederacy during the Civil War, there was considerable pro-Union sentiment in the state. Governor Sam Houston refused to support the Confederacy and was removed from office. The final battle of the Civil War was fought near the mouth of the Rio Grande by soldiers who were unaware that the war had ended a month earlier.


**the bottom line is that it was a confederate state...despite internal opposition.......
Thanks for an important citation of history.

You may have missed a similar recitation by an 87=-year-old Texas living in Denver. He was quoted in the recent thread dealing with Juneteenth.

We need to know these things.

I am currently wrestling with myself regarding what I think I am going to issue as a newsrelease, but I think I will do that only after releasing it on my website, and here on this board.

I feel like I need to say to us first.

If I do a release, it will be the NY Times, Washington Time, etc.

Those guys.

Sadly, it probsbly won't matter.

They won't use, or they will quash it and claim it later as their own.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
The majority of white folk that talk that southern pride B.S. are on some racist


Faheem The Dream:

I guess the recent racial beatings in the New York area was an EXCEPTION in an area where WHITE FOLKS JUST LOVE BLACK FOLKS!!!!


(Nmaginate - I will start a tally of how many of YOUR posts have ME as a subject. I am flattered by the attention from you but just to let you know - I am a heterosexual married man. I am not into the DL lifestyle. cabbage)
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
you know why you are the subject? Because you say allot of unsubstantial schit that is rhetorical in nature...I hate literary cowards who hide behind concepts and philosophies and never provide anything tangible...just their opinions about schit......


Is THIS the case OR IS THE BIGGER PROBLEM that YOU have a certain IDEOLOGY and certain METHODOLOGIES that are LITMUS TESTS for you to judge the EFFICACY of a BLACK MAN?

Since I CHALLENGE YOU - then I must be working for the ADVERSARY rather than either seeing the faults in your strategy becaue they are FAULTY or seeing the faults in your strategy in an attempt to STRENGTHEN YOUR CASE when you make your plea to others who are not within your group and who will not directly benefit from yielding to you to do so?

The solution to ALL OF THIS is to migrate to the EFFECTIVENESS MODEL!!! If YOU believe that the ideas that YOU have are SUPERIOR to mine then I ask that you PROVE IT!!

Prove that the goal has been reached.

Prove that the increase is SUSTAINABLE over the long run.

PROVE that you have factored in what "the Adversary" might do to thwart your efforts. (the sign that you plotted your OFFENSIVE strategy on a chalk board but did not draw any defensive players on the board that you will be working against - and thus your strategy is flawed).

PROVE that your plans will TRANSFORM Black America

PROVE that your plans CAN BE PACKAGED AND RECONSTRUCTED IN ANY LAND REGARDLESS OF THE OUTER SHELL OF GOVERNMENT WHICH CONFINES YOU (White or Black).

When YOU prove THESE POINTS I will yield to you Kevin knowing that YOU are a deserving leader.
don't yield shit to me......I know who Iam and what I am doing to fulfill my part.......I see you lack the ability to comprehend and answer a specific question in a specific manner.....I see you blkCons espouse a lot of BS, but when asked narrow and specific questions you try to answer in a broad manner as if others are too dumb to see your answer does not relate to the question....i re-posted my questions regarding the motivation of blkCons and asked that you answer them in a relevant manner.....it is fun to watch to duck and dodge day after day after day....but don't feel bad.....I developed those questions for blkCons just to watch them tuck their tails in their azzes and dodge.....and I do not have to give you a litmus test.......for the fact you support political actions that PROVED to be detremental to blacks....says volumes about who you are.....so I do not have to make a judgement to be honest....i'm just stating the obvious.....goto the other thread and see if you can give an answer that actually fits the question.....i'll post them again:


And for the fact that you challenge me on something I supported that had positive results for black people (whether optimal or not)for 30 years and you and your ilk supported legislative actions that turned the number downward immediately speaks volumes about how you are actually viewing reality.....because based on that alone....I wonder where you get the fucking gall to even ask some shit like you did......do not try to turn things around....you are not that articulate of a person to even think you could pull some shit off like that......I really want to hear how blkCons justify the things they support and how they feel those types of results are beneficial to blacks.....
Again,

*My question is, If K-12 schools are the problem, what does that have to do with AA for working adults? How does the repeal of AA help the effort to improve the educational conditions of kids in K-12?

**Also, since school reform will not take place overnight, why not retain AA until they get up to par (based on your premise that all whites are smarter and score higher at a college)? What purpose (in terms of improving K-12) does a repeal of AA play. Since school reform does not take place immediately, what about the graduates in between during the improvements? What sense does it make to reduce the opportunities for black adults that are graduating in the meantime?

***what makes a negro take it upon himself to help reduce ANY positive trend on the part of black people, whether the approach was optimal, strategic or anything else?


**Try to answer the questions specifically without giving your opinion about how dependent we are on AA, how AA is not the cure or me and my limited views on black kid's education or how you refuse to be dependent upon AA........these questions I ask relate to the motivation of blacks to push for the repeal of AA...and how do you blkCons attempt to address the needs of those out of high school and are working adults RIGHT NOW.

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