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DOGFIGHTING CONVICTION IS HAILED AS MAJOR VICTORY

VIDALIA, LA (2/15/07) – The Louisiana SPCA is applauding a major victory in the war against dogfighting with yesterday's conviction of a major dogfighter who has been considered one of the principal violators of the illegal activity in Louisiana. Clinton Bartell Schneider, Jr., who supplies fighting dogs and fights under the name Black River Kennels, was found guilty yesterday on state charges of dogfighting in Concordia Parish's Seventh Judicial Court. Schneider goes up for sentencing on April 7, 2007 and faces a maximum ten-year prison sentence and a maximum $25,000 fine.

Kathryn Destreza, LA/SPCA's Director of Humane Law Enforcement, served as an expert witness in this week's trial and testified to the evidence found as being clear signs of dogfighting activity. "This is a huge win because Black River Kennels has been a major supplier in the dogfighting world. This signals a major victory in our war on this horrific bloodsport."

Schneider's conviction follows an August 26, 2005 raid on his property in Concordia Parish. Schneider fled the scene during the raid, but turned himself in to authorities in early November. In the raid conducted by the Concordia Sheriff's Department and Concordia Animal Welfare, authorities confiscated 43 fighting dogs and found dogfighting paraphernalia including treadmills and break sticks commonly associated with dogfighting activity. The 43 dogs were humanely euthanized by court order in accordance with state statute declaring dogs used for fighting as contraband.

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The Louisiana Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is an organization devoted to improving the lives of animals and eliminating the homelessness, neglect and abuse that signal animal suffering. Chartered in 1888, our history has been paved with an understanding that only through an improved human-animal ethic can we better the lives of companion animals and that of our community. Our programs and services are infused with the highest standards of care and compassion.
Dogfighting hidden but state's a hotbed
Staff Writer

Sunday, Jul. 29, 2007 3:00 am
The officers ran up to a terrible sight.

A particleboard fence, about thigh high, stood in a field. Enclosed was a beige carpet. It was smeared with blood.

Two pit bulls were fighting. One kept battling even though the jaws of its opponent had severed the tendons in its front legs. When investigators raided the fight and arrested the onlookers, the snarling dogs had to be separated.

"The scene was horrific," Caswell County Sheriff Michael Welch said.

Welcome to the blood-stained world of dogfighting, an underground culture where innocent animals are transformed into killers. The recent indictment of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick in Virginia has focused attention on the practice, but law-enforcement officers and animal-rights experts say it's been an under-the-radar problem in the Tar Heel state for years.

The Web site http://pet-abuse.com, which tracks animal cruelty nationwide, lists seven dogfighting cases in North Carolina in 2007, more than Georgia, Texas, Ohio and other large states. When the Humane Society of the United States rounded up three years of dogfighting magazines and cataloged their kennel and breeder advertisements, the North Carolina folder was the thickest, its manager of animal fighting issues said.

"It's fair to say that North Carolina is a hotbed of activity in dogfighting," said Robert Reder, state director for the Humane Society.

But knowing dogfighting occurs is one thing; prosecuting it is another. The Caswell raid in March caught the dogfighters in action, but, more often, authorities are left with battered dogs, fighting paraphernalia and hearsay.

State legislators passed a felony dogfighting law in 1997. After a flurry of arrests over the next six years, the number of charges and convictions has dwindled, according to the N.C. Administrative Office of the Courts.

"Even if most people with common sense know they're fighting dogs, you can't prove it," said Maj. Tom Sheppard with the Guilford County Sheriff's Office.

Guilford's last dogfighting conviction was in April 2006, Assistant District Attorney Howard Neumann said. Four people showed up at a parking lot outside a fast food restaurant on Greensboro's Martin Luther King Jr. Drive. They brought a couple of dogs, which started fighting.

After a worker at a nearby restaurant called police, the dog owners and onlookers were arrested. They were convicted on misdemeanor dogfighting charges, ordered to perform community service and placed on probation, Neumann said.

The differences between that fight and the one in Caswell "” one urban, one rural "” highlight the disparate cultures of dogfighting. While the Vick indictment described a high-stakes world where low-performing dogs were electrocuted and fight purses reached $26,000, other owners simply let their dogs fight in the streets.

In both cases, authorities say, drugs and guns are often involved. The bottom line: an unsettling mix of dangerous people and dangerous dogs.

"It's a violent sport, and there's money to be made," Reder said. "So you have greed and violence all packaged together."

Dogfighting in Guilford County made big news in the 1990s, when Sheriff BJ Barnes and others pushed the General Assembly to pass a felony dogfighting law. Barnes took his case all the way to Raleigh, showing legislators a videotape of a gruesome fight before they asked him to shut it off.

But soon after the law passed, prosecutors hit roadblocks.

It took a Greensboro jury less than an hour in 1998 to acquit Guilford County's first felony dogfighting defendant. Authorities said they searched the man's home and found treadmills "” used to build a dog's endurance "” and a crude scale with a hook "” used to strengthen jaw muscles.

But prosecutors' case had a glaring hole: no witness.

"It's such a tight-knit group that does it," said Lt. Eugene Riddick of the Caswell Sheriff's Office, who was in the March raid. "And it's such a secretive society that's into this sport, that it's hard to do anything with them."

Still, dogfighting signs are there. Guilford's animal control office gets "a couple of calls a week" about dogfighting, Blatche said. Two dogfighting-related investigations are going on now, he said.

Guilford County's animal shelter is seeing pit bulls with "a lot of bite wounds," said the director, Marsha Williams. About 45 percent of dogs at the shelter are pit bulls or pit bull mixes, she said, considered most common types of fighting dogs.

There's other anecdotal evidence, too. Brenda Overman of the SPCA of the Triad said she recently saw a black pit bull hauling a tire down a Stokesdale driveway. That's to build endurance, she suspected.

But Reder of the Humane Society said the Vick episode is building awareness that could lead to more convictions.

"Some of the fallout's going to be some stepped-up recognition, not only from the public, but stepped-up enforcement across the country," Reder said.

In Caswell, cases for the 12 people arrested from the raid are still in the court system, officials said. At least four people charged were from Greensboro.

Riddick called what he saw that Sunday "one of the worst things I've seen in the last 15 years of law enforcement."

"I just don't understand what people get out of this," he said. "What makes people so excited to watch animals kill one another?"
It wasn't meant as a plea for animals, it is the face of white supremacy when it comes to animals and the disconnection of European culture from live and nature. I do not agree with organizations which make animals more important than humans or people who look away when it comes to human rights violations but can organize when it comes to animals.
But I also don't agree that humans are the only ones who belong to planet earth, because earth can exist without us, but we can't without earth.
For me personally there is no either-or. No either human rights or animal welfare or environmental protection. All belongs together for the balance of life.
The white obsession when it comes to Michael Vick displays again the hypocrisy and racism of white supremacy, because most of those who wanted to see M. Vick punished give a sh't about dogs or at least fighting dog breeds. For most of them it never was about the well-being of dogs.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
you all really think this had something to do with the welfare of animals?


I think the Amerikkkan population's obsession with dogs and sports is being exploited to make this a 'big media deal' when there are far more important issues going on. Ir's a timely distraction, as is most 'celebrity news'. As far as the sentencing goes... I think they 'had to make an example of him' for a myriad of reasons.

What's your take?
I would agree with your assessment. I really do not care about Vick. He might be being made an example of, but it is something that he put himself out there for. If he was not engaged, it would not be less of an issue. I do not know that they 'had' to make an example, more that he gave them an opportunity and they took it and stretched it out some.

Meanwhile...

...the beat goes on. Have you heard the the dem leadership had knowledge of the torture issues before torture was enacted and did little or nothing to curtail it? And that Nancy Pelosi is not pursuing impeachment because she may look complicit?
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
It wasn't meant as a plea for animals, it is the face of white supremacy when it comes to animals and the disconnection of European culture from live and nature. I do not agree with organizations which make animals more important than humans or people who look away when it comes to human rights violations but can organize when it comes to animals.
But I also don't agree that humans are the only ones who belong to planet earth, because earth can exist without us, but we can't without earth.
For me personally there is no either-or. No either human rights or animal welfare or environmental protection. All belongs together for the balance of life.


I can definitely get with that...
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
Meanwhile...

...the beat goes on. Have you heard the the dem leadership had knowledge of the torture issues before torture was enacted and did little or nothing to curtail it? And that Nancy Pelosi is not pursuing impeachment because she may look complicit?


Yep, the left and right wings of the same imperialist bird...
Originally I thought the sentence was out of hand,but now that I think about this, Vick did more than dogfight.

had this just been about dogfighting I would disagree with the sentence. I'd say a couple of months.

But he electorcuted dogs and drowned them, and he ran a business out of this. This is defintely 10 steps above just having a dogfighting show...

I agree with Listener that a lot of the people who are "outraged" aren't really outraged, however this has no bearing on if the sentence is just or not...
He got more than most pedaphiles get for molesting chilren, he got more than People who committ Manslaughter of (humans) He got more than Priest get who moslest little boys. I mean come on we talkinng about some dam dogs. PETA and all other animal organizations kill millions of dam dogs a year. How can you agree with something outrageous as that. A man would have to get caught with 500 grams of powder cocaine to even be considered for this type of sentence, where is the justice for real??
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
He got more than most pedaphiles get for molesting chilren, he got more than People who committ Manslaughter of (humans) He got more than Priest get who moslest little boys. I mean come on we talkinng about some dam dogs. PETA and all other animal organizations kill millions of dam dogs a year. How can you agree with something outrageous as that. A man would have to get caught with 500 grams of powder cocaine to even be considered for this type of sentence, where is the justice for real??



I suppose you are right. I'd say Vick should get less than a year to a year.

But the fact that people who molest and assault humans are getting less than 23 months means that we need to change the system majorily...
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
Meanwhile...

...the beat goes on. Have you heard the the dem leadership had knowledge of the torture issues before torture was enacted and did little or nothing to curtail it? And that Nancy Pelosi is not pursuing impeachment because she may look complicit?


Yep, the left and right wings of the same imperialist bird...
You break my heart
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...


What is the difference beyond the legal sanction? I really don't have a problem with hunting, but i can also acknowledge that hunting is the violent death of an animal purely for human satiety, just like vick's. Only one, is legally sanctioned...

beyond the legal distinction, is there a difference?
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
It wasn't meant as a plea for animals, it is the face of white supremacy when it comes to animals and the disconnection of European culture from live and nature. I do not agree with organizations which make animals more important than humans or people who look away when it comes to human rights violations but can organize when it comes to animals.
But I also don't agree that humans are the only ones who belong to planet earth, because earth can exist without us, but we can't without earth.
For me personally there is no either-or. No either human rights or animal welfare or environmental protection. All belongs together for the balance of life.The white obsession when it comes to Michael Vick displays again the hypocrisy and racism of white supremacy, because most of those who wanted to see M. Vick punished give a sh't about dogs or at least fighting dog breeds. For most of them it never was about the well-being of dogs.



For me, personally, there is an either or. Humans are more important than pets. I will kill every guppy on the planet if it means saving one human life. *shrug*
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...


What is the difference beyond the legal sanction? I really don't have a problem with hunting, but i can also acknowledge that hunting is the violent death of an animal purely for human satiety, just like vick's. Only one, is legally sanctioned...

beyond the legal distinction, is there a difference?


If that is going to be your argument, farm animals processed on the farm don't exactly go to the great farm in the sky in their sleep, they are put to death in sometimes violent manners also, is that a problem?
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...


What is the difference beyond the legal sanction? I really don't have a problem with hunting, but i can also acknowledge that hunting is the violent death of an animal purely for human satiety, just like vick's. Only one, is legally sanctioned...

beyond the legal distinction, is there a difference?


If that is going to be your argument, farm animals processed on the farm don't exactly go to the great farm in the sky in their sleep, they are put to death in sometimes violent manners also, is that a problem?


*gasp!* You mean Daisy Moo isn't in a better place? ek mama! Jazzdog in here meddling!

Just kidding.

I am a carnivore and a guppy killer. I do not have a problem with animals dying. But still, I can see how hunting might seem a wanton waste of animal life force as well as Vick's boneheaded antics.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...


What is the difference beyond the legal sanction? I really don't have a problem with hunting, but i can also acknowledge that hunting is the violent death of an animal purely for human satiety, just like vick's. Only one, is legally sanctioned...

beyond the legal distinction, is there a difference?


If that is going to be your argument, farm animals processed on the farm don't exactly go to the great farm in the sky in their sleep, they are put to death in sometimes violent manners also, is that a problem?


LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.



I agree. Some people need to get their comparisons right. Vick wasn't hunting dogs. He was watching them fight, and when they underperformed electorcuted and drowned them. Not exactly the same thing as hunting... LOL...


I am a hunter's daughter and have been hunting in my early years, still, I don't see much difference in electrocuting and drowing a dog

when you compare that with the supposedly humane act of hunting which entails blowing a hapless animal's brains out with a high velocity projectile, cutting his belly open to rip out his innards and having him stuffed or quartered/dressed with tiny parts wrapped up in white wax freezer paper...

*i'm just saying* sck
quote:
I am a carnivore and a guppy killer. I do not have a problem with animals dying.

Factory Farming is not only about brutality towards animals. Most of all, it pollutes the environment, it causes deforestation, pollutes water and wastes cereals etc. Food for lifestock in Europe is imported etc. Eating meat in industrialized countries and the desire to have as many meat to eat as somebody wants and as cheap as possible causes many problems for people in other countries. Not always directly, but indirectly, the meat consumption in industrialized countries causes hunger and starvation in other countries, in addition with environmental problems which will affect all people one day, for example lack of drinkable water.
Over-fishing causes hunger and many problems for people somewhere on earth who are dependend on fish as food-resource etc.
quote:
I don't see much difference in electrocuting and drowing a dog

when you compare that with the supposedly humane act of hunting which entails blowing a hapless animal's brains out with a high velocity projectile, cutting his belly open to rip out his innards and having him stuffed or quartered/dressed with tiny parts wrapped up in white wax freezer paper...

*i'm just saying*

-------------------------------------------

THANK YOU!!!!!

That is the way I see it, without passing judgment on the people that do hunt, what's the difference? So, as far as I am concerned, Michael Vick is really going to prison and having his career ruined because some Americans find dogs cute, keep certain animals as pets, and put animals' lives above the life of a human being.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with being a person that cares about animals, but it all has to be kept in perspective.

So, if the jury that convicted Michael Vick feel so right about what they have done to a man's life and career, why don't they just go an hug and kiss all his pitbulls.
But he did what he did knowing it was against the law. As much noise is made about what he did to the dogs and what they did to each other, dogfights are illegal. Why all the questions about the immorality of hunting vs the immorality of dogfights? No one goes to jail for being immoral (and boy am I glad), but for doing what is illegal. I do not know what the average prison time for people convicted of dogfighting is, and I don't care. Pit bulls are a nuisance in the black community and so is that macho attitude that accompanies many of their owners. Yes, he got jail time for being a dumb nigga. Maybe when he gets out he will be a smart nigga and stop doing things that will wind him up behind bars.
Aside from animal cruelty, dog fighting brings a harsh sentence because these dogs are dangerous to people. How many pit bull maulings do we hear about all the time?? Children and babies being attacked all because these dogs are trained to kill and are not good for anything else. The get loose all the time and menace neighborhoods. Down the street from me just last week two pitbulls got loose, attacked and killed a ladies dog as she was walking him. It happens all across the country on a regular basis.
When it comes to pitbulls, it has very little to do with how the dogs are raised. A pitbull that will attack, will attack, not matter what. Pitbulls are not like most other breeds, and that is what the general public does not understand or refuses to accept.

A pitbull, unlike other dogs CHOSES his master, the owner does not automatically become a pitbull's master. If you own a pitbull, it may very well chose your wife or your kid as its master, leaving you, who thinks you are the dog's master, forever, a potential victim of your own pet, or potentially unable to control the dog, should it attempt to attack another person (doesn't matter to the pitbull that that person is your child, friend, neighbor, etc.) you can't stop it because it did not chose you as his master; if the pitbull chose your wife or your kid as his master, that voice will be the only one potentially that the dog will absolutely take the command from.

You can befriend a pitbull, know it for years, pet it, feed it, play with it, and that same pitbull will bite your throat out if it so choses, as long as it has not chosen you as its master.

I know you are not believing what I just wrote, but I get/got this information from someone that breeds this dogs, and his their opinion, after being breeders of this breed for several decades, is, they are not 'family pet' type dogs to begin with. According to them, not matter how well behaved, trained, etc., the pitbull is, it will always have the potential to attack ANYONE it does not consider it master.

But they did mention that out of a litter, there is likely to be at least one that will have NO master(almost always male) or likely to be one that is truely docile (almost always female). The problem is you don't know for sure about pitbulls until it live out a life time without an attack.
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
I do agree that he went to jail for being a dumb . . .

But I just can't see why two years in prison and an entire career ruined over an animal, especially when in this country, 99.9% of American eat animals for dinner.

What makes a pitbull better than a chicken?


Lots of beer batter and whiskey! Cool
quote:
Originally posted by listener:

quote:
I am a carnivore and a guppy killer. I do not have a problem with animals dying.


Factory Farming is not only about brutality towards animals. Most of all, it pollutes the environment, it causes deforestation, pollutes water and wastes cereals etc. Food for lifestock in Europe is imported etc. Eating meat in industrialized countries and the desire to have as many meat to eat as somebody wants and as cheap as possible causes many problems for people in other countries. Not always directly, but indirectly, the meat consumption in industrialized countries causes hunger and starvation in other countries, in addition with environmental problems which will affect all people one day, for example lack of drinkable water.
Over-fishing causes hunger and many problems for people somewhere on earth who are dependend on fish as food-resource etc.



quote:
Originally posted by listener:
I think the moral of the story is that organizations like PETA with a self-proclaimed and self-righteous moral standard in addition with power and media attention have a very destructive tool, because they know how to appeal to people's most primitive emotions. This is also the reason I guess why they have such many members: Simple 'solutions', power and a feeling of superiority.

because this:
quote:
Don't mess with dogs in Amerikkka

is not true.



Listener, I understand your point and I probably went overboard with the guppykiller bit but your last post and your post insisting that "don't mess with white folks dogs" is not true

is not consistent.
think the moral of the story is that organizations like PETA with a self-proclaimed and self-righteous moral standard in addition with power and media attention have a very destructive tool, because they know how to appeal to people's most primitive emotions. This is also the reason I guess why they have such many members: Simple 'solutions', power and a feeling of superiority.

I too agree with this statement lets us know white society cares more about dogs than they do black men. If they had a choice between a black man and a dog, think most would choose a dog.lol

Reminds me of a quote Michael Douglas said on the movie Wallstreet "Wasp care more about their animals than they do humans"
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
think the moral of the story is that organizations like PETA with a self-proclaimed and self-righteous moral standard in addition with power and media attention have a very destructive tool, because they know how to appeal to people's most primitive emotions. This is also the reason I guess why they have such many members: Simple 'solutions', power and a feeling of superiority.



I don't think the Federal government cares anymore about PETA than than they do about Michael Vick. A drug investigation stumbled into evidence of an illegal dog fighting ring and they caught a big name --Vick -- in the process.

PETA and the other groups were just "side fluff" which the media consumed and fanned for ratings.

23 months? ...it could have been 5 years. Hopefully he'll keep himself in shape and have a chance to come back as a back/receiver (his NFL QB'ing days are over) in the NFL.
quote:
23 months? ...it could have been 5 years. Hopefully he'll keep himself in shape and have a chance to come back as a back/receiver (his NFL QB'ing days are over) in the NFL.


what kind of logic is this, he can have the skills to be a reciever or running back, but some how he cant be a Quarter Back ?? Rediculous, he has always been a Quarterback, VinnyTesterverde, is 43 years old Quarterbacking. See this is the type of thinking the really shows how much of a bigot white people are. They always say this crap
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
quote:
23 months? ...it could have been 5 years. Hopefully he'll keep himself in shape and have a chance to come back as a back/receiver (his NFL QB'ing days are over) in the NFL.


what kind of logic is this, he can have the skills to be a reciever or running back, but some how he cant be a Quarter Back ?? Rediculous, he has always been a Quarterback, VinnyTesterverde, is 43 years old Quarterbacking. See this is the type of thinking the really shows how much of a bigot white people are. They always say this crap


I neither white nor a bigot. IMO, Vick's greatest asset was always his legs not his arm. Compare his running stats vs. his passing stats and show me where he was a better passer.

Look at it pragmatically. Look at how long it takes to develop quarterbacks now. What NFL team is going to take a chance on a (then)-30 year old QB who hasn't taken a snap in 3+ years? What team is going to build around a 30 year old running quarterback, when any one play can take you out? Maybe if he goes to Canada and shows out, then maybe so. But it ain't happening at the NFL like that.

I've seen reports quoting anonymous NFL GMs who say Vick, if he stays in shape, will get a chance as a running back or a wide receiver because that's what made him most dangerous before. Dude's talent is undeniable, thats why the bigotry claim doesn't hunt. If you got talent, you will get another opportunity to play the game. But I think if he gets back to the NFL at all -- a big if -- it won't be as a quarterback.
quote:
Its not his skills but his style of playing Quarterback, for all his running and throwing the Falcons still sucked.

I say go back and look at his wins and losses. How many playoffs apperances did they make before Mike, and compare that to the number of playoffs they made with mike. The fact of the matter is , Mike never had a group of quality recievers. He had a good tight end , a good , running back, and a good defense. The game now is built on the deep threat, which they never gave him.Also if you look at all the black quarterbacks, with the exception of Moon, none had a group of quality recievers to put up the numbers. Mike dynamic abilities help mask the deficencies of the Falcons

I neither white nor a bigot. IMO, Vick's greatest asset was always his legs not his arm

I said this is the argument most white people use, I didnt say you were one, but obviously you are borrowing from their book
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
So, Mr Sunnubian, in light of the info you posted on pitbulls, don't you think people who bread these dangerous animals need to be in jail??

________________________________________________

Actually it is Ms. Sunnubian,

But, what I really think is that this breed of dog should be outlawed in the first place. But Vick is not going to prison for breeding these dogs, but for animal cruelty to these baby killers - - and I think that is wrong, at least, they went too far in his case. He probably should have chosen another lawyer, I don't know why he pled guilty so soon in the case, and I think it is more than curious that some animal rights/trainer people fleeced him out of a half a million dollars for the "rehabilitation" of these baby killers.

There's so much money to be made in the "Justice" industry these days.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
I do agree that he went to jail for being a dumb . . .

But I just can't see why two years in prison and an entire career ruined over an animal, especially when in this country, 99.9% of American eat animals for dinner.

What makes a pitbull better than a chicken?


Lots of beer batter and whiskey! Cool

_______________________________________________

Now that's funny Jazz, and true.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
Oshun Auset:
quote:
Every year in the United States, an estimated three to four million cats and dogs are killed in animal shelters.
http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html



Puppy mill pictures

Dump Bins

etc

so much to 'whites love their pets so much'. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that animal rights are more important than human rights, but within the given system cruelty against others is part of this sick system, also against animals, who are a living part of planet earth. A lot of animals have to die and to suffer so that a few pets can be so lucky to be treated well. And most lucky are those animals who will never come across a human being


Listener, your impassioned plea for the consideration of dogs and cats falls awkwardly on the ears of people whose lives are not seen as valuable as dogs and cats. There was no one specific organization which conducted pet rescue in New Orleans, but it was repeatedly noted that efforts and donations were made, including commercials about saving pets and news stories about saving pets

When the human body count had not yet been completed...


Pampered pooches have been a mark of aristocracy since aristocracy existed.

Here's the point: a billion euthanized cats and dogs is absolutely meaningless to me when bootcamp drill instructors can be found not guilty of killing a 14 yr old black male after being videotaped suffocating him with ammonia, kicking him, and holding him down without the same mercy that would be shown to an animal. An animal would be put down quickly with the utmost concern for putting it out of its misery with minimal suffering.

I would exterminate every cat, dog, hamster, turtle, caged up boa constrictor and any other kind of pet on earth to give one murdered black child Martin Lee Anderson another chance at life.
Published: December 12, 2007 6:00 a.m. Hide photos

Vick has got time to clean up his act
Michael wilbon
Associated Press



Atlanta's Joe Horn, left, and Michael Jenkins help teammate Roddy White raise his jersey to display a message of support for quarterback Michael Vick during Monday night's game in Atlanta.



ATLANTA – It caught most of us by surprise, the length of the sentence handed down Monday, when perhaps it shouldn't have. When two of his co-conspirators were sentenced a few weeks back to 18 and 21 months, we should have known Michael Vick wasn't going to get a year or 15 months. He wasn't going to get less jail time than the people who delivered him to the feds. He wasn't going to get less jail time when it was his money that financed the dogfighting enterprise that was his undoing.

Maybe we were caught by surprise because we thought there was still a little bit of influence left in Vick's name, because he reported to jail before it was time, because he's a celebrity athlete and we're accustomed to most people in the culture being lenient when it comes to the rich and famous, or perhaps because the St. Louis Rams' Leonard Little got only 90"‚days in the city workhouse and four years probation for killing a motorist when driving while drunk, which turned into an involuntary manslaughter plea.

The talk turned, prematurely we can see now, to whether Vick could be back for the 2009 season, maybe even by minicamp that spring. Clearly, none of this mattered to U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson, who sentenced Vick to 23"‚months in a federal prison. It was a stunner to digest, from the time assessed to the fact that Vick was dressed in black-and-white prison garb instead of one of his own suits, which a whole lot of hardened criminals are allowed to wear to sentencing. Immediately, it seemed downright excessive and meant to embarrass. More serious crimes yield smaller sentences all the time, every day really. In fact, the entire reaction to Vick's heinous behavior at times has seen excessive in the context of crimes like rape and manslaughter.

Mike Tyson was convicted of rape, yet he and his crime didn't generate anything close to the outrage of the Vick case. I have no tolerance for what Vick did, from financing the enterprise to actually killing dogs. Jail is where he deserves to be. But have we really come to the point, agitated by the frighteningly influential animal rights lobbyists, where an animal's well-being is more important than a woman's? It's sad if our priorities are that twisted. The reaction to Vick's crime reached a feeding frenzy that seems to ignore all context.

I was reminded by multiple lawyers Monday night, one in my own family, that it needs to be restated that Vick's crime was a federal offense, carrying mandatory sentencing guidelines. There was virtually no chance he'd receive less jail time that his co-conspirators. And it's a near-certainty that Vick, once again, made his own situation worse by lying.

Falcons owner Arthur Blank, drained by the day's ordeal before the start of the Falcons-Saints game, told me just before kickoff that, from all the information he solicited, Hudson, "is incredibly thoughtful, bright and fair. And there's information we weren't privy to that drove him to his decision on this." It was impossible to not see the disappointment on Blank's face, like a parent who is angry with his child but in despair nonetheless. On the topic of whether the sentence was excessive, Blank lamented that "Michael had been something less than forthcoming since his plea agreement."

In other words, Vick simply lied too many times. He lied about whether he actually killed any dogs, then admitted to hanging two. Testing positive for marijuana certainly hurt. Vick failed an FBI polygraph and lied about a positive marijuana test in September. In fact, Hudson told Vick in court Monday afternoon, "I'm not convinced you've fully accepted responsibility."

In other words, the early surrender, the public apology, the participation in an animal sensitivity training course might have impressed PETA to some degree, but it was not enough for the judge to outweigh Vick's constant lying, going all the way back to the spring of 2007 when he lied to Blank and to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell about the depth of his involvement. Vick was denied an "acceptance of responsibility" credit that could have reduced his sentence. Reportedly, federal prosecutors opposed giving him the credit. In other words, every time Vick could have done himself some good, he lied or failed to take responsibility for his actions. Seeing that, Hudson nailed him.

It's fair to wonder now at what point Vick will take responsibility – and not in some phony public relations way. This doesn't have anything to do with the NFL and what the commissioner's office thinks. It doesn't matter to me at the moment whether Michael Vick comes back a quarterback or a running back, to the Falcons or Raiders, or whether he comes back at all.

For essentially the next two years, Michael Vick will be incarcerated, not free to come and go as he pleases. At some point you have to hope Vick comes to realize the key to his future isn't what Hudson thinks, or what Blank or Goodell or those who will excuse him any act feels, but whether Vick understands that it's going to be difficult to build any kind of tolerable future without coming to grips with his recent past.


Michael Wilbon is a writer for the Washington Post. His columns appear periodically in The Journal Gazette.
Blah, Blah, Blah, ---- They were still dogs, baby killing dogs. Out of all the owners of these baby killers who have malled, mutilated, maimed people (primarily children), and in Atlanta, I have yet to read where these owners were sentenced to that much time in prison, if any.

It all really just seems more like a white power trip over another Black man's life and livelyhood. Especially, after the "FEDS" took over the case (insisted on doing so, never requested to, and not legally obligated to) when they did not have to.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
Listener, I understand your point and I probably went overboard with the guppykiller bit but your last post and your post insisting that "don't mess with white folks dogs" is not true

is not consistent.


Negroespiritual, in which way is it not consistent?


We already know that white people's attitude toward their pets is inconsistent with respect for life/nature etc. It is the very assertion that we have already been making. You cannot exterminate races of humans and claim to have respect for life. You cannot suck all the life out of the oceans, strip the forests bare, dump chemicals in the ocean, and drop atomic bombs and convincingly proclaim yourselves as earth friendly or animal lovers complete with purse dogs and puppy sweaters. We understand environmental racism.

We already knew that the white man places extroadinary importance on his housepets and displays extroadinary cruelty to other living things, namely nonwhite humans.

A black human life is worth less than the life of a dog in a purse to white people.

so when you speak of the defenselessness of dogs, as if that is comparable to humans Roll Eyes like somehow black people ought to identify with the "oppression of dogs" as part of white supremacy Roll Eyes it seems like more of the same old same old.

"when they try to defend themselves they're put to death" sounds incredibly similar to saying dogs who rip people's throats out shouldn't be put to death because they're only defending themselves.

If you're one of those people who loves dogs as much as or more than humans, and judging from your avatar, and this statement

quote:

For me personally there is no either-or. No either human rights or animal welfare or environmental protection. All belongs together for the balance of life.



you are, that's fine. Pet's are cool, but don't diminish the struggles of a PEOPLE by denying the truth about white people's obsession with dogs and cats and then trying to compare the black experience with white supremacy to puppy mills.

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