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I was going to write an editorial about it but I can't keep it in! 15

I think it's an absolute travesty. To be clear, I've never fought dogs. I don't understand it and, frankly, don't like it. I think it's probably a rural, perhaps Southern thing that me, growing up in Boston, just wouldn't really understand.

That said, I also don't understand hunting. I've never hunted. I'm quite sure I never will.

What bothers me is that it is so wrong for Vick to fight dogs, yet it's OK for Brett Favre to stalk some helpless deer and blow its brains out with a elephant gun. Why on Earth is that so OK? Vick may have been responsible for the death of a few dogs, but some hunters create that much carnage in a weekend.

Why the extraordinary double standard? td6
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I was going to write an editorial about it but I can't keep it in! 15

I think it's an absolute travesty. To be clear, I've never fought dogs. I don't understand it and, frankly, don't like it. I think it's probably a rural, perhaps Southern thing that me, growing up in Boston, just wouldn't really understand.

That said, I also don't understand hunting. I've never hunted. I'm quite sure I never will.

What bothers me is that it is so wrong for Vick to fight dogs, yet it's OK for Brett Favre to stalk some helpless deer and blow its brains out with a elephant gun. Why on Earth is that so OK? Vick may have been responsible for the death of a few dogs, but some hunters create that much carnage in a weekend.

Why the extraordinary double standard? td6


For one, hunting is is govern by rules that are different from state to state, the money that hunting licenses raise are fed back into conservation projects like increasing waterlands for waterfowl, backing land for wildlife refuges and etc. Hunting also helps keep certain animal populations in check, for instance in some states the deer populations have increased in such numbers that they poise a nusistance to homeowners, in other cases the herds can become disease infested.

Violating those hunting laws, ie, hunting without a license, poaching can lead to some very severe punishments including jail time, if you were illegally hunting from your vehicle, your vehicle can be seized and sold at auction by the state.

To compare hunting to what Vick did is to display a complete lack of what hunting does and how it is regulated.
quote:
Originally posted by Diamond:
I'm shocked he was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison. Let me state upfront, I don't believe in "dog fighting" as a sport. But,I must say I've seen where murders get less time. For example, the minister's wife who served less than a year for murdering her husband.


Perhaps if the dog had bit Vick in the ass he could have claimed self-defense in an abusive relationship like this women did.
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:

To compare hunting to what Vick did is to display a complete lack of what hunting does and how it is regulated.


Respectfully, all that you describe merely expresses the degree to which the government has embraced the activity. But that's my problem - why does the government embrace one and yet condemn the other? The objective of hunting is to kill animals. It would seem either that's cool or not.
daz
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

quote:
It did not seem that harsh to me. He will serve about a year tops. the sad thing is that his money will be funny for quite a while now.

This is a federal sentence, he will do virtually all two years


And then - he's got to deal with state charges on top of that!! They're going to try to crucify this brotha.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by jazzdog:

To compare hunting to what Vick did is to display a complete lack of what hunting does and how it is regulated.


Respectfully, all that you describe merely expresses the degree to which the government has embraced the activity. But that's my problem - why does the government embrace one and yet condemn the other? The objective of hunting is to kill animals. It would seem either that's cool or not.
daz


Some people actually use hunting as the preferred method for obtaining their meat versus buying it from Safeway. Half the guys who work for me prefer eating Elk to eating beef, I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.
I think the moral of the story is that organizations like PETA with a self-proclaimed and self-righteous moral standard in addition with power and media attention have a very destructive tool, because they know how to appeal to people's most primitive emotions. This is also the reason I guess why they have such many members: Simple 'solutions', power and a feeling of superiority.

because this:
quote:
Don't mess with dogs in Amerikkka

is not true.
This is from the PETA-Website

Vick Received Federal Sentence--Demand Tough State Prosecution Now!


Updates From PETA's Blog
In the wake of the sentencing of NFL quarterback Michael Vick's codefendants in the federal dogfighting case, Vick has now been formally sentenced on federal charges. Michael Vick has been sentenced to 23 months in prison for financing a dogfighting ring and for his part in the killing of pit bulls who did not fight aggressively. He also received three years' probation.

Given the magnitude of public outcry surrounding this case and the atrocities outlined in Vick's indictment, federal officials have seen fit to treat these crimes seriously. We hope that the state's prosecution of this case will be equally as fitting for this egregious crime.

Vick and his codefendants will also be tried on state charges, and prosecution of this case falls to the office of Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter. Please use the form below to urge Mr. Poindexter to follow the precedent set forth by the federal sentencing and prosecute Vick to the fullest extent of the law.

Call on Mr. Poindexter to ensure that dogfighters receive the maximum penalties, including incarceration; a permanent prohibition on having ownership, custody, or control of animals (as is allowed by state law); and any necessary psychiatric intervention.

Respectfully remind Mr. Poindexter that a vigorous prosecution of this and any cruelty case"”and the pursuit of stringent penalties against animal abusers upon conviction"”is in the best interests of the county's human and animal residents and sends the message that the defenseless must be safeguarded and that cruelty will not be tolerated.
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/vick_sentencing
Well let's also do a comparison and contrast with these types of 'animal crimes'. A white man who coincidently is an animal lover was charged with killing a feral (wild endangered cat) and the case was declared a mistrial. Yet a white man who shoots two unarmed people in the street robbing his neighbors house has yet to be charged. Same state, same city. Something is very wrong with the application of the laws.
Listner, thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy of PETA. I do not particularly care for their organization.
This just goes to show how mentally twisted a lot of people in this country are and how their questionable mentalities influence how the law is interpreted, rather than the intent of the law serving that purpose and a jury and judge follow that intent, rather than their personal opinions of what an accused has done.

Now, you have a dead animal eating jury and/or judge deciding that one man should go to prison over an animal being dead to satisfy that man's pleasure or self indulgence. I'm sure his fate was decided over a bucket of fried chicken, or some burgers and afterwards members of that same jury went home to plan their next hunting trip or meal of dead dear meat.

I'm against dog-fighting, animal cruelty too, but let's face it, one man should not go to prison over some dead vicious dogs (a breed most of whom will eat your babies) while we sit at home and eat the flesh of other animals.

What Michael Vick is really going to prison for is for abusing what Americans consider pets, i.e., kill all the animals you want as long as most Americans don't consider them pets.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I seriously doubt the dogs being killed were going to be consumed as part of someone's daily diet.

Then, if anything, hunting should be limited to those who eat what they shoot. We all know that doesn't happen for all hunters and there should be no deer heads hanging as trophies. It's all about the food right?


Please....


No its not all about the food, but the point is that while some people hunt for sport, others hunt for the enjoyment of eating wild game both of them in a closely monitored and regulated system of rules and standards. So just how does killing underperforming dogs in a illegal sport that people go out of their way to hide relate to that aspect.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
I think the moral of the story is that organizations like PETA with a self-proclaimed and self-righteous moral standard in addition with power and media attention have a very destructive tool, because they know how to appeal to people's most primitive emotions. This is also the reason I guess why they have such many members: Simple 'solutions', power and a feeling of superiority.

because this:
quote:
Don't mess with dogs in Amerikkka

is not true.


White Amerikkkans in particular are SERIOUS about their dogs... These folks were concerned and sent pet rescue to New Orleans before all the people were accounted for after Katrina. I think PETA is a highly irritating organization, but I don't think they have that much influence over all these nut jobs I see drooling over their dogs. There is something else going on. I'm not claiming to know what it is fully, but I would agree that 'power and a feeling of superiority' is definitely a part of it.

In my next life I want to be born a white person's dog, they get better treatment than we do.

-popular African joke


There is something seriously wrong with people who are overly concerned about sticking it too a Black man over dogs, while simultaneously ignoring multiple genocidal crimes against humanity.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

I think it's an absolute travesty. To be clear, I've never fought dogs. I don't understand it and, frankly, don't like it. I think it's probably a rural, perhaps Southern thing that me, growing up in Boston, just wouldn't really understand.

That said, I also don't understand hunting. I've never hunted. I'm quite sure I never will.

What bothers me is that it is so wrong for Vick to fight dogs, yet it's OK for Brett Favre to stalk some helpless deer and blow its brains out with a elephant gun. Why on Earth is that so OK? Vick may have been responsible for the death of a few dogs, but some hunters create that much carnage in a weekend.

Why the extraordinary double standard? td6


I agree that the sentence is way over the top. 23 months for this is an absolute outrage, IMO. But I don't see the comparison with hunting.

I don't hunt, and I don't really understand the point. But hunting for food (and shelter & clothing, actually) was, and in some places still is, a vital act for human survival, for as long as humanity has existed. And yes, hunting for sport has probably been around for just as long, if only to keep this vital skill honed. But just because our economic system has largely moved us past the need for hunting, shouldn't make this once extremely essential act a criminal one. We may now be able to engage in moralizing over hunting, but I don't believe morality alone should ever be the basis for an act beng illegal, if that act is essential for human survival in a different economic/societal context.

When measured against that perspective, I have no problem seeing how dogfighting would fall short of hunting and can reasonably be against the law. Especially when, as Jazzdog notes, hunting is so regulated.

My problem with this sentence goes more to Yemaya's point, and Ricardomath's: PROPORTIONALITY. The judge displayed none of it here. I think that's a damned travesty, personally.
quote:
White Amerikkkans in particular are SERIOUS about their dogs... These folks were conscerned and sent pet rescue to New Orleans before all he people were accounted for after Katrina. I think PETA is a highly irritating organization, but I don't think they have that much influence over all these nut jobs I see drooling over their dogs.


I don't know which organizations sent pet rescue, I will search the net.
quote:
There is something else going on.

Dogs don't have the power to defend themselves and if they try they are put to death.

quote:
In my next life I want to be born a white person's dog, they get better treatment than we do.


Yes I know this artice and it is full of stereotypes. I wish the author good luck that he won't be born in a puppy mill, that he won't end up in an animal shelter and won't come across alleged 'dog-lovers' etc. His chance to be ill-treated is very high
Do you honestly believe that people hunt to survive in America? Please. Most people that hunt animals in this day and age are doing to for the same thrill that Micael Vick and other got out of fighting dogs.

Also, in some countries people actually do consume dogs as part of their food supply.

My point is, that regulated or not, survival or not, it is ALL the same thing, killing and animal for your own use. I just merely cannot see why killing one animal will send a man to prison, while killing another won't; in the end it is the same thing, a human being killing an animal.

However, I may be a little biased, because I don't like pitbulls; they are only baby killers if given the chance. Animal rights groups will not admit to themselves or to the general public how dangerous these dogs really are. They are the equivilent to having a wolf as a pet. I know someone whose family has been in the business of raising pitbuls for decades and they will tell you the truth about the dangers of these vicious dogs, unlike these animal protection groups.

But still, a human being going to prison for essentially two years (+ with pending state sentencing on top of it), and having his entire career ruined for killing a dog? While at the same time when these dogs attact people and kill small children (and this has happened a lot in the Atlanta area), I don't see any of them going to prison for two years---even after their pitbull has maimed, mutilated and murdered human beings.
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
Do you honestly believe that people hunt to survive in America? Please. Most people that hunt animals in this day and age are doing to for the same thrill that Micael Vick and other got out of fighting dogs.

Also, in some countries people actually do consume dogs as part of their food supply.

My point is, that regulated or not, survival or not, it is ALL the same thing, killing and animal for your own use. I just merely cannot see why killing one animal will send a man to prison, while killing another won't; in the end it is the same thing, a human being killing an animal.

However, I may be a little biased, because I don't like pitbulls; they are only baby killers if given the chance. Animal rights groups will not admit to themselves or to the general public how dangerous these dogs really are. They are the equivilent to having a wolf as a pet. I know someone whose family has been in the business of raising pitbuls for decades and they will tell you the truth about the dangers of these vicious dogs, unlike these animal protection groups.

But still, a human being going to prison for essentially two years (+ with pending state sentencing on top of it), and having his entire career ruined for killing a dog? While at the same time when these dogs attact people and kill small children (and this has happened a lot in the Atlanta area), I don't see any of them going to prison for two years---even after their pitbull has maimed, mutilated and murdered human beings.


First of all, its not a matter of survival but a choice of what food you prefer to eat, cows grown on a farm or wild game out in the woods. And the fact is just about every animal shot can be consumed as food and usually is, even though there are some who I will readily admit would not eat. In fact, in some states animals that are shot to reduce animal population, the meat is usually given to food banks or native americans. Obiviously you are clearly biased about any animal being killed even if it is raised to be food on a farm.

Second, any domestic dog can be trained or brutually treated and turn out to be just as deadly as a pitbull, while on the other hand I know folks who have pitbulls that are the most gentle and kind animals, its the person who owns the animal that helps determine its behavior.
Oshun Auset:
quote:
Every year in the United States, an estimated three to four million cats and dogs are killed in animal shelters.
http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html



Puppy mill pictures

Dump Bins

etc

so much to 'whites love their pets so much'. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that animal rights are more important than human rights, but within the given system cruelty against others is part of this sick system, also against animals, who are a living part of planet earth. A lot of animals have to die and to suffer so that a few pets can be so lucky to be treated well. And most lucky are those animals who will never come across a human being
He was beggin' for it. White folk want to put all black men in prison, we do not have a large margin for error. What he did was illegal and stupid. What kind of man do you think would engage in that kind of behavior? A good church going man that respects all people or someone into big pimpin'?


There are times when breaking the law is a good thing, but that was not one of them. I ain't got no pity for him.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
Oshun Auset:
quote:
Every year in the United States, an estimated three to four million cats and dogs are killed in animal shelters.
http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html



Puppy mill pictures

Dump Bins

etc

so much to 'whites love their pets so much'. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that animal rights are more important than human rights, but within the given system cruelty against others is part of this sick system, also against animals, who are a living part of planet earth. A lot of animals have to die and to suffer so that a few pets can be so lucky to be treated well. And most lucky are those animals who will never come across a human being


Listener, your impassioned plea for the consideration of dogs and cats falls awkwardly on the ears of people whose lives are not seen as valuable as dogs and cats. There was no one specific organization which conducted pet rescue in New Orleans, but it was repeatedly noted that efforts and donations were made, including commercials about saving pets and news stories about saving pets

When the human body count had not yet been completed...


Pampered pooches have been a mark of aristocracy since aristocracy existed.

Here's the point: a billion euthanized cats and dogs is absolutely meaningless to me when bootcamp drill instructors can be found not guilty of killing a 14 yr old black male after being videotaped suffocating him with ammonia, kicking him, and holding him down without the same mercy that would be shown to an animal. An animal would be put down quickly with the utmost concern for putting it out of its misery with minimal suffering.

I would exterminate every cat, dog, hamster, turtle, caged up boa constrictor and any other kind of pet on earth to give one murdered black child Martin Lee Anderson another chance at life.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
Oshun Auset:
quote:
Every year in the United States, an estimated three to four million cats and dogs are killed in animal shelters.
http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html



Puppy mill pictures

Dump Bins

etc

so much to 'whites love their pets so much'. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that animal rights are more important than human rights, but within the given system cruelty against others is part of this sick system, also against animals, who are a living part of planet earth. A lot of animals have to die and to suffer so that a few pets can be so lucky to be treated well. And most lucky are those animals who will never come across a human being


LOL @ placing "animal rights" on par with the treatment of humans...
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
There is something else going on.

Dogs don't have the power to defend themselves and if they try they are put to death.p/quote]


My response to this is "and...so what?" PEOPLE are put to death for less ALL THE TIME! Where is the outrage for that?

quote:
In my next life I want to be born a white person's dog, they get better treatment than we do.


Yes I know this artice and it is full of stereotypes. I wish the author good luck that he won't be born in a puppy mill, that he won't end up in an animal shelter and won't come across alleged 'dog-lovers' etc. His chance to be ill-treated is very high


I don't know this as an 'article'... My friends say it every time a 'defend the dogs' story is pushed in the news media.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
Oshun Auset:
quote:
Every year in the United States, an estimated three to four million cats and dogs are killed in animal shelters.
http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html



Puppy mill pictures

Dump Bins

etc

so much to 'whites love their pets so much'. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that animal rights are more important than human rights, but within the given system cruelty against others is part of this sick system, also against animals, who are a living part of planet earth. A lot of animals have to die and to suffer so that a few pets can be so lucky to be treated well. And most lucky are those animals who will never come across a human being


Listener, your impassioned plea for the consideration of dogs and cats falls awkwardly on the ears of people whose lives are not seen as valuable as dogs and cats. There was no one specific organization which conducted pet rescue in New Orleans, but it was repeatedly noted that efforts and donations were made, including commercials about saving pets and news stories about saving pets

When the human body count had not yet been completed...


Pampered pooches have been a mark of aristocracy since aristocracy existed.

Here's the point: a billion euthanized cats and dogs is absolutely meaningless to me when bootcamp drill instructors can be found not guilty of killing a 14 yr old black male after being videotaped suffocating him with ammonia, kicking him, and holding him down without the same mercy that would be shown to an animal. An animal would be put down quickly with the utmost concern for putting it out of its misery with minimal suffering.

I would exterminate every cat, dog, hamster, turtle, caged up boa constrictor and any other kind of pet on earth to give one murdered black child Martin Lee Anderson another chance at life.


quote:
LOL @ placing "animal rights" on par with the treatment of humans...


yeah appl appl appl That's my point... And you haven't even mentioned the international human rights atrocities that these same folk worried about dogs don't give a damn about. Every time someone asks me about how I feel about Michael Vick I respond with one word answers like "Dafur", "Iraq", or "police brutality". Their priorities are in all the wrong place.
quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
you all really think this had something to do with the welfare of animals?


I think the Amerikkkan population's obsession with dogs and sports is being exploited to make this a 'big media deal' when there are far more important issues going on. Ir's a timely distraction, as is most 'celebrity news'. As far as the sentencing goes... I think they 'had to make an example of him' for a myriad of reasons.

What's your take?

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