What does that mean?
Original Post
Wanted: A Good Black Woman
In particular, what do you want (if anything) in a black woman that is different than what you want in a woman generally?
My prefernce is an old fashion women to an extent. Proud of African American/West Indian/Black African traditions in food and culture. One who is from a Black neighborhood. One who doesn't subscribe to feminism, relativism, multiculturalism or any other white liberal movements. I think a good women is well read. Ambitious and community orientated. I do not attend church nor am I religious but I find religious women - particularly Baptist and AME members, I suppose Apostolic/Holiness/Pentecostal too unfortunately- tend to have these traits most frequent
I don't think there's anything I'd want in a black woman that I wouldn't want in a woman generally. I'm not going to be MORE exacting in my requirements of a black woman. If anything, I'd be more exacting in a non-black woman... as in, if I'm gonna get with YOU and deal with the interracial stuff, girl, you GOTZ to come correct!
As for what I would want in a woman, I will incorporate this prior description,, which hasn't changed since I first posted it.
As for what I would want in a woman, I will incorporate this prior description,, which hasn't changed since I first posted it.
quote:Originally posted by Vox:
As for what I would want in a woman, I will incorporate this prior description,, which hasn't changed since I first posted it.
That's a nice list, Vox.
I like Vox's list. For some reason, it's extremely important to me that any woman I'm involved with also like Indian restaurants and dig similar music. 
And I also like this from the parallel thread:
I didn't mean to convey the idea that one brings different expectations of what a person does for you ... but rather a different experience of what they are to you. What we are includes our history and knowledge of the world.
That commonality is very important to me. There are things I get from a black woman (a southern black woman in particular) that I don't see elsewhere. It's what I know.
Which is strange because though it attracts me there are also aspects against which I've rebelled.
Maybe I'm looking for a woman who is brilliant, slightly eccentric, but a southern black girl to the bone!?!
She needs to know something about sweet potato pie and chicken livers.
More later.
And I also like this from the parallel thread:
quote:
For me, it's not so much a matter of what I want differently from a black man, as it is what I get differently from a black man.
I didn't mean to convey the idea that one brings different expectations of what a person does for you ... but rather a different experience of what they are to you. What we are includes our history and knowledge of the world.
That commonality is very important to me. There are things I get from a black woman (a southern black woman in particular) that I don't see elsewhere. It's what I know.
Which is strange because though it attracts me there are also aspects against which I've rebelled.
Maybe I'm looking for a woman who is brilliant, slightly eccentric, but a southern black girl to the bone!?!
She needs to know something about sweet potato pie and chicken livers.
More later.
Awww... Honest Brother. You know what you're like? You're like a Cadillac, cool breeze in the 70s....
Southern Stuff
I forced my BF to learn this song and sing it to me.
Southern Stuff
I forced my BF to learn this song and sing it to me.
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
What does that mean?
I favor brown skinned women, in the physical sense. But the qualities are all relative.
For instance, the more physically attractive I find a woman the less intellectual she has to be (but I am good with pretty and intellectual). I am willing lower my desire for physically attractive in direct proportion to a corresponding increase of sweetness. But too much sweetness can get on your nerves, so she needs to be able to be passionate enough as well. I would like a woman who is quick to smile, kinda silly, but able to encourage me to step up when it is the right thing to do, even it if it is not what I want to do. A woman who tries not to offend me, loves me enough to protect me, even from myself and in a way that makes me smile when I see her.
It is all kinda gooey.
In other words, it is a matter of 'clicking'. Once in a great while I come across women like that.
quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
One who doesn't subscribe to feminism,
quote:Originally posted by Wiz:quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
What does that mean?
I favor brown skinned women, in the physical sense. But the qualities are all relative.
For instance, the more physically attractive I find a woman the less intellectual she has to be (but I am good with pretty and intellectual). I am willing lower my desire for physically attractive in direct proportion to a corresponding increase of sweetness. But too much sweetness can get on your nerves, so she needs to be able to be passionate enough as well. I would like a woman who is quick to smile, kinda silly, but able to encourage me to step up when it is the right thing to do, even it if it is not what I want to do. A woman who tries not to offend me, loves me enough to protect me, even from myself and in a way that makes me smile when I see her.
It is all kinda gooey.
In other words, it is a matter of 'clicking'. Once in a great while I come across women like that.
very nice ...
quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
My prefernce is an old fashion women to an extent. Proud of African American/West Indian/Black African traditions in food and culture. One who is from a Black neighborhood. One who doesn't subscribe to feminism, relativism, multiculturalism or any other white liberal movements. I think a good women is well read. Ambitious and community orientated. I do not attend church nor am I religious but I find religious women.....tend to have these traits most frequent
My g'ma would have jumped up and hugged you for that....lol; especially with regard to the 'Indian' reference since WE are expected to 'conveniently' forget about that part of ourselves if we have that element within us (lest we be accused of not being comfortable with "JUST BEING BLACK")....
LOL....
My son made a comment this evening with regard to an "Indian" term...and I had to school him on how he used the term and how his "maw maw" would be on his behind if she ever heard him being so disrespectful to that part of our heritage.
Then he straightened up.....
"Wisdom Is A Woman Pleased!"
quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
My prefernce is an old fashion women to an extent. Proud of African American/West Indian/Black African traditions in food and culture. One who is from a Black neighborhood. One who doesn't subscribe to feminism, relativism, multiculturalism or any other white liberal movements.
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
quote:Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
My son made a comment this evening with regard to an "Indian" term...and I had to school him on how he used the term and how his "maw maw" would be on his behind if she ever heard him being so disrespectful to that part of our heritage.
That's great Shay! I think it's very important to raise culturally sensitive and culturally informed children.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
My prefernce is an old fashion women to an extent. Proud of African American/West Indian/Black African traditions in food and culture. One who is from a Black neighborhood. One who doesn't subscribe to feminism, relativism, multiculturalism or any other white liberal movements.
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
Why go out of your way to specifically pursue any type of black man/woman if he/she is all up in everybody else's culture anyway?
The question is intended half seriously by the way (tongue in cheek really) ... On the one hand I see your point as I value cultural diversity myself. But on the other, it's not a bad question actually (when thought about a certain way) ... might be another thread topic ...
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Why go out of your way to specifically pursue any type of black man/woman if he/she is all up in everybody else's culture anyway?
The question is intended half seriously by the way (tongue in cheek really) ... On the one hand I see your point as I value cultural diversity myself. But on the other, it's not a bad question actually (when thought about a certain way) ... might be another thread topic ...
The point is, it's truly ignorant on Afro Saxon's part to express a disdain for women who embrace multiculturalism just after telling us that he prefers women who belong to three of the most culturally-diverse groups on the planet. That makes no sense. I mean, come on, West Indian, African, AFRICAN AMERICAN, of all people, you can't get any more culturally diverse than that. These people's lineages have been dispersed all over the place and throughout the Diaspora. It absolutely amazes me that in this day and time, with all the information that is readily available about culture and cultural diversity, that a person is still thinking with such a parochial mindset.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Why go out of your way to specifically pursue any type of black man/woman if he/she is all up in everybody else's culture anyway?
The question is intended half seriously by the way (tongue in cheek really) ... On the one hand I see your point as I value cultural diversity myself. But on the other, it's not a bad question actually (when thought about a certain way) ... might be another thread topic ...
The point is, it's truly ignorant on Afro Saxon's part to express a disdain for women who embrace multiculturalism just after telling us that he prefers women who belong to three of the most culturally-diverse groups on the planet. That makes no sense. I mean, come on, West Indian, African, AFRICAN AMERICAN, of all people, you can't get any more culturally diverse than that. These people's lineages have been dispersed all over the place and throughout the Diaspora.
I can't speak for him... but perhaps he meant that he would like someone from any one of those cultures (or sub-cultures thereof) without intending to imply they were the same or indistinguishable.
Anyway ... what does it mean to "embrace multiculturalism"?
quote:
It absolutely amazes me that in this day and time, with all the information that is readily available about culture and cultural diversity, that people are still thinking with such a parochial mindset.
Which mindset?
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Which mindset?
I suppose we'll know after Afro Saxon, if he decides to return to the site, tells us exactly what he means by multiculturalism.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Which mindset?
I suppose we'll know after Afro Saxon, if he decides to return to the site, tells us exactly what he means by multiculturalism.
I meant the mindset to which you were referring (regardless of whether or not it actually reflects Afro Saxon's own mindset).
I'm referring to a mindset that isn't informed about or appreciative of diverse cultures. Saxon mentioned that he prefers a woman who doesn't subscribe to multiculturalism, and the women that he prefers all belong to culturally- and linguistically-diverse groups.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:
I'm referring to a mindset that isn't informed about or appreciative of diverse cultures. Saxon mentioned that prefers a woman who doesn't subscribe to multiculturalism, yet the women that he prefers all belong to culturally- and linguistically-diverse groups. I thought I was clear.
If I say I want an African American woman ... then I might be referring in the abstract ... to any one of millions of women... a group in which there is a great deal of variety culturally, geographically, and otherwise.
But if I take any single one of those women in particular ... then that woman is not necessarily herself appreciative of diverse cultures. She may even strongly identify with a very particular sub-culture.
Just because there is variety in a group does not mean that every one of its members are multicultural polyglots. Nor does it mean that there are no commonalities among the members of the group as a whole that are worth appreciating on the whole.
I'm appreciative and informed about diverse cultures. That doesn't mean I want to date any woman from any one of them. Nor does it mean I have no appreciation (even a preference) for my own.
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I'm appreciative and informed about diverse cultures. That doesn't mean I want to date any woman from any one of them.
Oh, ok. This must mean that your "appreciation" for people from culturally- and linguistically-diverse groups has limitations. Well some people might not consider that a real appreciation.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I'm appreciative and informed about diverse cultures. That doesn't mean I want to date any woman from any one of them.
Oh, ok. This must mean that your "appreciation" for people from culturally- and linguistically-diverse groups has limitations. Well some people might not consider that a real appreciation.
I'm sure your appreciation for other cultures has limits too.
Unless you're willing to tell me you'd submit to a cliterodectomy ... Or wear a Burka ... or can recite Baudelaire in French ... or the Rig Veda in Sanskrit ...
How about this Rowe.
F*ck it.
I NEED A WHITE WOMAN, ASIAN WOMAN, WHAEVER .. JUST AS LONG AS SHE AIN'T BLACK.
Screw the whole thread.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
Rowe,
If I may, I wondered the same thing until I got back to the basics of what he was saying...I understood that statement to mean that "she" is not being all "We are the world" to the point of ignoring the issues that concern US, African/Indian/Black People, as a whole. "She" can love all of the rest of the world, but her loyalty is and always will be with her people. "She" is mindful not to forget who SHE IS....she remembers and always pays homage to her roots....or as my father used to warn when we were little: "Don't turn White!"
LOL...
But I am not AfroSaxon speaking, so I may be wrong.
"Wisdom Is A Woman CRACKING Up About Now!"
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
My prefernce is an old fashion women to an extent. Proud of African American/West Indian/Black African traditions in food and culture. One who is from a Black neighborhood. One who doesn't subscribe to feminism, relativism, multiculturalism or any other white liberal movements.
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
No I thought West African, African American and West Indian cultures were all exactly the same.
I don't not describe multiculturalism as simply embracing another culture. Multiculturalism is the idea I have to assign equitable value to all cultures and embrace them no matter how much I may dislike them or lack interest in them.
quote:Originally posted by ShayaButHer:quote:Originally posted by Rowe:
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
Rowe,
If I may, I wondered the same thing until I got back to the basics of what he was saying...I understood that statement to mean that "she" is not being all "We are the world" to the point of ignoring the issues that concern US, African/Indian/Black People, as a whole. "She" can love all of the rest of the world, but her loyalty is and always will be with her people. "She" is mindful not to forget who SHE IS....she remembers and always pays homage to her roots....or as my father used to warn when we were little: "Don't turn White!"
LOL...
But I am not AfroSaxon speaking, so I may be wrong.
"Wisdom Is A Woman CRACKING Up About Now!"
Said it better than I could. Thank you.
quote:Originally posted by ShayaButHer:quote:Originally posted by Rowe:
Ok, you do realize that you named a preference for multiple cultures in your response, don't you? African, West Indian, and African American are three different cultural groups, and even within these cultural groups, there are multiple cultural and ethnic differences. So, why wouldn't you appreciate a woman who embraces multiculturalism, specifically cultures that are different from her own?
Rowe,
If I may, I wondered the same thing until I got back to the basics of what he was saying...I understood that statement to mean that "she" is not being all "We are the world" to the point of ignoring the issues that concern US, African/Indian/Black People, as a whole. "She" can love all of the rest of the world, but her loyalty is and always will be with her people. "She" is mindful not to forget who SHE IS....she remembers and always pays homage to her roots....or as my father used to warn when we were little: "Don't turn White!"
LOL...
But I am not AfroSaxon speaking, so I may be wrong.
"Wisdom Is A Woman CRACKING Up About Now!"
That's what I figured he was trying to get across too... but I think he was referring to 'West Indian' as in Africans/Blacks in/from the Caribbean Shaya... Not the Native Amerikkkan heritage you referenced in your previous post.quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I'm appreciative and informed about diverse cultures. That doesn't mean I want to date any woman from any one of them.
Oh, ok. This must mean that your "appreciation" for people from culturally- and linguistically-diverse groups has limitations. Well some people might not consider that a real appreciation.
I'm sure your appreciation for other cultures has limits too.
Unless you're willing to tell me you'd submit to a cliterodectomy ... Or wear a Burka ... or can recite Baudelaire in French ... or the Rig Veda in Sanskrit ...
How about this Rowe.
F*ck it.
I NEED A WHITE WOMAN, ASIAN WOMAN, WHAEVER .. JUST AS LONG AS SHE AIN'T BLACK.
Screw the whole thread.
I could be wrong HB, but I think the 'winking smiley' in Rowe's post was alluding to how some
quote:Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Said it better than I could. Thank you.
Anytime....
"WIAW!"
quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I could be wrong HB, but I think the 'winking smiley' in Rowe's post was alluding to how someposterspeople seem think that multi-cultural appreciation must include, and may even focus onsleeping withdating 'others'... Which of course is
Oh ... well if that's the case... sorry ...
Personally .. I've always found Indian art, music, philosophy, and food more beautiful than I found Indian women. Cross cultural dating generally gets low multi-cultural marks from me.
IMO It counts for cultural appreciation. But not a lot.
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I could be wrong HB, but I think the 'winking smiley' in Rowe's post was alluding to how someposterspeople seem think that multi-cultural appreciation must include, and may even focus onsleeping withdating 'others'... Which of course is
Oh ... well if that's the case... sorry ...
Personally .. I've always found Indian art, music, philosophy, and food more beautiful than I found Indian women. Cross cultural dating generally gets low multi-cultural marks from me.
IMO It counts for cultural appreciation. But not a lot.
I feel the same way. I like the food, art, music, culture, and philosophy too. Although I do appreciate the physical beauty of the Indian people, as a I do all people, the men aren't particularly physically attractive to me in the relationship/dating sense. I can apply the above to many peoples now that I think about it.
Cross cultural dating, from what I've observed, does little to guarantee anyone actually knowing much about the culture (beyond the unavoidable surface level) from which their significant other is from. Although I have noticed that some folks seem to think that they are quite aware... This self aggrandized feeling of 'awareness' often has no other form of transmission than sexual osmosis I guess... Which is pretty shallow.
I find that cross cultural interests outside of the sexual/dating impulse are often a much more in depth and honest multiculturalism. Cross cultural dating devoid of any initial true cultural appreciation in other areas often leads to objectification and exotification of the 'other'. Which often uncomfortably mimics the colonial mindset in many ways.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I find that cross cultural interests outside of the sexual/dating impulse are often a much more in depth and honest multiculturalism. Cross cultural dating devoid of any initial true cultural appreciation in other areas often leads to objectification and exotification of the 'other'.
I agree. And I think the most successful way to really better understand and gain an appreciation for people with backgrounds and cultures different from your own is by forming relationships with them. Therefore, networking, forming friendships, which can lead to dating, is a way to do this. You can only learn but so much reading books about different cultures and traveling. To really appreciate a culture on more profound level, you have to get to know the people who belong to these cultures. Anyway, I just thought that it was interesting that after listing all of those people with mulitcultural backgrounds which he prefers, Afro Saxon would have something against someone who subscribes multiculturalism. And I wanted to bring this to his attention. And that's basciallly it.
quote:Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
If I may, I wondered the same thing until I got back to the basics of what he was saying...I understood that statement to mean that "she" is not being all "We are the world" to the point of ignoring the issues that concern US, African/Indian/Black People, as a whole. "She" can love all of the rest of the world, but her loyalty is and always will be with her people. "She" is mindful not to forget who SHE IS....she remembers and always pays homage to her roots....or as my father used to warn when
But if you understand multiculturalism in the way that I do, then you would know that subscribing to multiculturalism isn't a betrayal of your cultural hertiage nor does it require you to abandon your cultural roots. I figured your explanation was probably the reason why Afro Saxon feels he doesn't want someone who subscribes to multiculturalism.
First of all, multiculturalism is simply a doctrine which proposes that several different cultures can harmoniously and equitably coexist in a single country. Multiculturalism doesn't ignore issues that are unique to diverse cultural groups, and it is does not suggest that one should completely forget about his or her cultural identity. That is not an accurate perception of multiculturalism. In fact, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with NO culture predominating. However, I know that by the time someone finishes reading my statement, he or she is going to get the urge to follow up this response by saying that most Whites while (rhetorically) claiming to be multiculturalists in public are really interested in making certain that their race and culture(s) take precedence over others in private, but the same can be said for Whites who claim to be strong propoments of justice, brotherhood, and freedom. Therefore, regardless of the term, how White people relate to them does not change their meanings.
Ultimately, you have to be responsible for how you represent what you believe. I've come to realize that you can't control anyone else's behavior. If you believe in freedom, justice, and a world that is multicuturally aware and appreciative, then you live by the beliefs and values that you have. And that's what I try to do.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I find that cross cultural interests outside of the sexual/dating impulse are often a much more in depth and honest multiculturalism. Cross cultural dating devoid of any initial true cultural appreciation in other areas often leads to objectification and exotification of the 'other'.
I agree. And I think the most successful way to really better understand and gain an appreciation for people with backgrounds and cultures different from your own is by forming relationships with them. Therefore, networking, forming friendships, which can lead to dating, is a way to do this. You can only learn but so much reading books about different cultures and traveling. To really appreciate a culture on more profound level, you have to get to know the people who belong to these cultures.
Very true, but it never has to get to the sexual level for said appreciation... and I'm not referring to you, but I know many people who skip on past the intimacy of friendship and social networking, and primarily focus on the dating/sexual aspect... Yet because they are dealing with the dating/sexual aspect, somehow feel like 'true' multiculturalists when compared to those who don't, as if sexual/dating relationships expose them to some cultural aspect that friendship/networking and other forms of cultural immersion don't...
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
If I may, I wondered the same thing until I got back to the basics of what he was saying...I understood that statement to mean that "she" is not being all "We are the world" to the point of ignoring the issues that concern US, African/Indian/Black People, as a whole. "She" can love all of the rest of the world, but her loyalty is and always will be with her people. "She" is mindful not to forget who SHE IS....she remembers and always pays homage to her roots....or as my father used to warn when
But if you understand multiculturalism in the way that I do, then you would know that subscribing to multiculturalism isn't a betrayal of your cultural hertiage nor does it require you to abandon your cultural roots. I figured your explanation was probably the reason why Afro Saxon feels he doesn't want someone who subscribes to multiculturalism.
First of all, multiculturalism is simply a doctrine which proposes that several different cultures can harmoniously and equitably coexist in a single country. Multiculturalism doesn't ignore issues that are unique to diverse cultural groups, and it is does not suggest that one should completely forget about his or her cultural identity. That is not an accurate perception of multiculturalism. In fact, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with NO culture predominating. However, I know that by the time someone finishes reading my statement, he or she is going to get the urge to follow up this response by saying that most Whites while (rhetorically) claiming to be multiculturalists in public are really interested in making certain that their race and culture(s) take precedence over others in private, but the same can be said for Whites who claim to be strong propoments of justice, brotherhood, and freedom. Therefore, regardless of the term, how White people relate to them does not change their meanings.
Ultimately, you have to be responsible for how you represent what you believe. I've come to realize that you can't control anyone else's behavior. If you believe in freedom, justice, and a world that is multicuturally aware and appreciative, then you live life in the way that you know is right. And that's what I try to do.
OK. For a little bit you were starting to worry me.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
Very true, but it never has to get to the sexual level for said appreciation... and I'm not referring to you, but I know many people who skip on past the intimacy of friendship and social networking, and primarily focus on the dating/sexual aspect... Yet because they are dealing with the dating/sexual aspect, somehow feel like 'true' multiculturalists when compared to those who don't, as if sexual/dating relationships expose them to some cultural aspect that friendship/networking and other forms of cultural immersion don't...
As far as I'm concerned, if the people involved in the relationship are consenting adults, then each is getting what he or she wants. I'm not going to judge someone's purpose for being in a relationship, and I'm trusting that an adult can make his or her own decisions. Basically, people get together with other people for all types of reasons. Some are curious, and sometimes this curiousity leads to something more serious. That's just the way of the world now. Gone are the days when people felt a social stigma about not dating and marrying people who belong to their race. And I think our generation, and those that come after are going to be less and less concerned about this.
quote:Originally posted by HonestBrother:
OK. For a little bit you were starting to worry me.
Worried about what? That we disagree about something? I mean, that's something that we should all expect. We're not going to agree about everything. Even though we might share some ideas, we still may have different beliefs or points of view. There's isn't anything wrong with that.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
Very true, but it never has to get to the sexual level for said appreciation... and I'm not referring to you, but I know many people who skip on past the intimacy of friendship and social networking, and primarily focus on the dating/sexual aspect... Yet because they are dealing with the dating/sexual aspect, somehow feel like 'true' multiculturalists when compared to those who don't, as if sexual/dating relationships expose them to some cultural aspect that friendship/networking and other forms of cultural immersion don't...
As far as I'm concerned, if the people involved in the relationship are consenting adults, then each is getting what he or she wants. I'm not going to judge someone's purpose for being in a relationship, and I'm trusting that an adult can make his or her own decisions. Basically, people get together with other people for all types of reasons. Some are curious, and sometimes this curiousity leads to something more serious. That's just the way of the world now. Gone are the days when people felt a social stigma about not dating and marrying someone in their own race. And I think our generation, and those that come after are going to be less and less concerned about this.
I'm not sure what your comment was in reference to in my post, or maybe you were just chatting, but I must admit I actually like the multiculturalism you described in the post HB responded to(as long as one is not putting our liberation on the back burner to achieve the former, which would actually work against what you described), but I also have noticed that because we live in a society that is so 'sex focused' people often substitute true multiculturalism and cultural exchange with inter-racial sexual exploration... which leads to objectification and exotification with very little true cross cultural understanding or exchange. This is counterproductive and works against what you have described above from what I've seen. People often get their shallow level curiosity satisfied, and mistake that for greater/deeper cultural understanding and exchange.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
People often get their curiosity satisfied, and never come to any greater cultural understanding.
That can be said about both of the people involved in the intercultural or interracial relationship. Both can be curious about one another, and after having their curiousity satisfied, they might decide to stay in relationship, form a long-term friendship, marry, etc. The point is, intercultural relationships do not have to be exploitative. Something that started out as a mere curiousity can turn into a life-time adventure.
quote:Originally posted by Rowe:
But if you understand multiculturalism in the way that I do, then you would know that subscribing to multiculturalism isn't a betrayal of your cultural hertiage nor does it require you to abandon your cultural roots....
First of all, multiculturalism is simply a doctrine which proposes that several different cultures can harmoniously and equitably coexist in a single country. Multiculturalism doesn't ignore issues that are unique to diverse cultural groups, and it is does not suggest that one should completely forget about his or her cultural identity. That is not an accurate perception of multiculturalism. In fact, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with NO culture predominating......
Ultimately, you have to be responsible for how you represent what you believe.
Rowe,
RespectFully, I know what MultiCulturalIsm is....I never said that multiculturalism is a betrayal of my cultural heritage nor that it requires me to abandon my roots.
HowEver, under the guise of "being at peace with others," much of society has been force fed the idea that if we don't love and participate with all cultures, then we must be bigots....
....and specifically for Black People, if we align ourselves closely with the ideas that are important to our culture, we are then told that we are militant; we are told that we hate others.....and THEN, we are asked how we are different from any White racists if we are going to "live that way."
So people, in their quest to not be called "bigot," rush to speak on how "enlightened" they are because they know person X from country 1 or they associate with person Z from country 15.
This is why I understood Afro to be saying that he wants a Woman who knows how to "kill that noise" and just be comfortable with who she is as a Black Woman. She knows how to wade through the muck and does not fall for the Bamboozle....
She doesn't need to wear a kimono to feel good about herself....she doesn't need to have long blond hair to feel good about herself....she doesn't feel the need to contrast between Ebonics and The King's English when she hears Our People speak....she doesn't feel the need to tell the Black Man she "doesn't need" him or how she's "going to get" hers as a Woman...she doesn't subscribe to the notion that she needs to be on screen with only "light skinned" kids to feel good about Our Children....she doesn't feel the need to play games with the Black Man by comparing him to a White Man or really any "other" Man.....etc., etc., etc...
She can just be who she is as a Black Woman....and respect that.....and she will let him be who he is as a Black Man .....and respect that.
"Wisdom Is An Old School Black Woman!"