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The Republican Party is really in trouble. And in typical fashion they are reaching for African America to 'save the day', again.

Bush-Cheney-Rove-Rumsfeld-Rice and Company are 'running for cover'.

The heat is 'on.'

They can't find Bin Laden.

They lied about an urgency for war.

They lied about the reasons for the urgency.

They can't find the reasons (WMD's)

They can't stop the Insurgency in Iraq.

They can't rebuild the infrastructure (light, water) for any significant percentage of Iraq.

Florida 2000

Ohio 2004

So now this:

'House GOP leaders are expressing their intention to reauthorize the Voting Right Act (VRA) (subscription required) two years before it expires. Republicans are actively looking to renew the measure this year, following rumors claiming that the GOP may attempt to water the bill down or simply let it expire in 2007.'---Diversity, Inc.

Well!!!

Why are they turning to us now???

Could it be the 'goodness of their hearts?'

The Republicans have fought this for 23 years with lies, and simple 'stonewalling'.

Why now???

Now there it is in present-day news.

Maybe denying 'black' folks will believe it now.

Republicans are looking to 'renew' it this year.

Does that mean another few years?

That's what the NAACP's Legal Defense Fund is recommending.

That's what The Rainbow/PUSH Coalition is circulating a petition to achieve. 'Us'uns can't ask for a permanent law. Mr. Charlie will get mad and say it's unconstitutional.

'Yassuh, Yassuh, Thank ya suh!!!!

Surely God loves.

We damn ourselves to hell!!

We should be in the media screaming like hell for permanency for Section 4(a).

Where are the voices for African America???

I'm starting to rant.

PEACE

Jim Chester
African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
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quote:
'House GOP leaders are expressing their intention to reauthorize the Voting Right Act (VRA) two years before it expires. Republicans are actively looking to renew the measure this year, following rumors claiming that the GOP may attempt to water the bill down or simply let it expire in 2007.'---Diversity, Inc.


Is there a REAL story here?

I think you all would be happier if the Republicans said "Hell No" we are not going to renew it.

Can you detail for me any REAL PROOF behind the "RUMORS" that they planned to "water it down" and that Bush was opposed to it like Jesse said? He will be in Atlanta in August and I was planning to ask him why he is leading a protest against Bush when he can't even produce evidence of Bush's opposition.

It's called "grandstanding" folks.
If they not with us, then they are against us. Bush has not expressed support for renewing the VRA, so using his philosophy he is against it, thats all the proof we need.---Fagunwa

I agree.

Constructive Feedback: Let me refer you to my response to your request in the 'NAACP Chair..' thread. It can provide some helpful background.

As to your question;

Only a thinking person who has not been paying attention would ask such a question.

I suppose a thinking person who refuses to hear/see the truth might also ask.

1. Bush II refused to allow the Justice Department investigate the Florida 2000 election as recommended by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights in 2001.

Surely you remember that.

2. The Bush II Administration refuse to acknowledge that a gutting of the VRA was in progress.

That was personal. The Voting Rights Section of the DOJ told me personally in a phone call in 2001. In fact, they repeated the insult that the 15th Amendment was 'secure for us'.

As to 'real proof' they intend to 'water it down':

I guess you really haven't been paying attention.

Please note:

If they simply 'renew it', as stated, Section 4 (a) will simly be EXTENDED FOR SOME FIXED, ADDITIONAL PERIOD.

That would be 'keeping it the same.'

They already have the law bound with a time clock.

Their best seems to be to keep protection of our access to the voting booth on a timeclock.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
The Bush II Administration refuse to acknowledge that a gutting of the VRA was in progress.

That was personal. The Voting Rights Section of the DOJ told me personally in a phone call in 2001. In fact, they repeated the insult that the 15th Amendment was 'secure for us'.



And Randall Robinson had a third party source that heard Condi Rice say that if Jamaica doesn't kick Aristide out the US will use "any means necessary to punish Jamaica".

I love those third party sources.

When I hear Bush refuse to renew the Act, especially section 4 I will join with you, taking the front line in the protest.

For now you are just debating coming and going.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
So CF...you are actually a W supporter?


My philosophy is "If Blacks were to switch our support to Republicans in the way some of us support Democrats IT WOULDN'T AMOUNT TO A DAMN THING".

I advocate a Black man being able to vote for WHOEVER HE DAMNED WELL PLEASES without the gravitational pull of Black Democrats in Civil Rights Leaders Clothing.

If Blacks start to fuse the Republican party membership with our racial development goals I will begin to attack Black Republicans as fervently as I do Black Democrats who try to sell me on this claim.

To answer your question directly the key different between me and you is that "You all ACTIVELY OPPOSE GEORGE W. BUSH in every thing he does." The first thing wrong that he does each day is to wake up to see another day.

For me: I don't agree with everything that he does but I don't disagree either. I judge his policies with respect to the REAL WORLD FACT that I lay my head on American soil each night.

Where my philosophy and ideology match with his I will support his policies. I think that Blacks would benefit from stronger local economies rather than expecting high federal taxes that are redistributed into our communities. In this case you have 536 people deciding your fate (House, Senate and President) rather than a cycle that you have more control over - that being - if you want to maintain a certain standard of living - spend your money locally, support your schools, invest in your community. Same philosophy between an OWNER and a RENTER.

The fact that I come to the table with a certain ideology and it happens to intersect with Bush on some occasions does not have me to deny what I believe because I dislike a particular man. This is why the Black community is too often seen as "defending bad behavior" rather than having what we believe posted on the wall for all to see and then when events come to pass we reference our beliefs in ajudicating the event rather than evaluating the racial dynamics and operating accordingly.

I support America in the context of supporting Black people, my community and my family in this ascending order.
quote:
I advocate a Black man being able to vote for WHOEVER HE DAMNED WELL PLEASES without the gravitational pull of Black Democrats in Civil Rights Leaders Clothing.


The black man needs to have some sense of reasoning...epscially when HE is trying to convince other blacks that is the way to go. Anything I oppose bush about I can justify why....do not assign me intellectual laziness in the form of a blanket assumption on my behalf in terms of what I think about bush. I am the one that obviously introduced the concept of policy analysis to you and brought to your attention a flaw that you cannot even address on AA....supporting actions that lower black college enrollment and professional inclusion....and for whatever reason.....cannot fix your mouth to say how that would be beneficial to black people....so learn to explain YOUR own stance on the issues...logically and leave my reasons for disliking bush to me...and the other 89% of the black voting population that agree with me.....explain to my dumb azz why what 11% of black people believe, starting with AA, dismisses the majority as having the wrong idea...........
I have learned from my debates that SOME people prefer a person that AGREES WITH THEM but cannot articulate WHY he supports what he supports.

Than a person who DISAGREES WITH THEM and can make a detailed list of why he believes the way that he does.

I agree with you that George Bush has done some things that don't factor in the sensitivities of African-Americans. If he ever expects to have support of those who are open minded to him he must improve this.

At the same time the African American community has been fanned by many a Black Democrat in Civil Rights Leaders' Clothing having shaped the interpretation of certain policies into the WORST CASE SCENARIO there is.

If you listen to them you would believe that BUSH HAS SPENT LESS ON EDUCATION THAN CLINTON HAS. The truth is that Bush is cutting some programs that these Educational Actor-vists support, demanding that they show the EFFECTIVENESS of these programs while increasing the overall spending on Education.

The improved statistics collected from No Child Left Behind and the fact that schools can't get certified until they include stats from ALL OF THEIR STUDENTS are the very tools that Black Educaitonal activists have been using to highlight the educaitonal deficiencies recently.
When I hear Bush refuse to renew the Act, especially section 4 I will join with you, taking the front line in the protest.---Constructive Feedback

I've never gotten into the Liberal v. Conservative dialogue. I always thought it was an extended way of being self-serving for political agendas.

I still do.

Rarely do such discussions lead to resolution of any issue being discussed. In fact, the issue typically gets lost in the exercise of wills.

Your 'when I hear Bush' statement seems prototypical.

Harriett Tubman said she ran into similar mentality.

I guess there were liberals and conservatives even then as well.

By the way, you will never hear Bush, or any other politician, tell you/us the refuse to renew Secton 4().

But they will pat you/us on the head, and maybe give us a job; even a good job; maybe even Secretary of State.

You know what?

It occurs to me to question why you don't believe the Republicans who have already told us they refuse to renew Section 4(a).

That is what Section 4(a)(8) is you know.

Maybe you didn't read it.

Surely if you had you would have understood that is exactly what they said.

Why would you need them to tell you again?

Don't you believe them when they tell you?


PEACE

Jim Chester
Last edited {1}
quote:
By the way, you will never hear Bush, or any other politician, tell you/us the refuse to renew Secton 4().

But they will pat you/us on the head, and maybe give us a job; even a good job; maybe even Secretary of State.


This is very interesting. A Secretary of State IS NOT A TOKEN JOB BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. The SoS is the TOP U.S. DIPLOMAT. It seems to me that you don't like the POLICY and thus you are DISCOUNTING the importance of the person and thus the POSITION.

I make the case that THERE ARE AS MANY WHITE LIBERALS who agree to certain things that are favorable to Blacks in exchange for VOTES but NOT because they have any HEART-FELT CONVICTION to do so.

At the end of the day - what matters the most is the vote that is cast in the Legislature and NOT your interpretations of the true feelings of the person.

It is very intersting to me that a White person's ideology trumps his desire to perpetuate his race and thus White Conservatives are racists while White liberals just LUV Black folks.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
By the way, you will never hear Bush, or any other politician, tell you/us the refuse to renew Secton 4().

But they will pat you/us on the head, and maybe give us a job; even a good job; maybe even Secretary of State.


This is very interesting. A Secretary of State IS NOT A TOKEN JOB BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. The SoS is the TOP U.S. DIPLOMAT. It seems to me that you don't like the POLICY and thus you are DISCOUNTING the importance of the person and thus the POSITION.

I make the case that THERE ARE AS MANY WHITE LIBERALS who agree to certain things that are favorable to Blacks in exchange for VOTES but NOT because they have any HEART-FELT CONVICTION to do so.

At the end of the day - what matters the most is the vote that is cast in the Legislature and NOT your interpretations of the true feelings of the person.

It is very intersting to me that a White person's ideology trumps his desire to perpetuate his race and thus White Conservatives are racists while White liberals just LUV Black folks.


Look what white CONservatives have done or present themselves to black folks, compared to white liberals, then you tell us.
quote:
Look what white CONservatives have done or present themselves to black folks, compared to white liberals, then you tell us.


Black folks have a problem with WHITE RACISTS not White Conservatives nor White Liberals.

If you want to play this game - look at the state of Black people internally from a cultural stand point after accepting the "small pox laced blankets" handed out during the Great Society.

You all focus on INTENTIONS. I place a greater premium on RESULTING OUTCOMES.

The bottom line is when you engage in a transaction in which you receive the nourishment that you need for your sustinance IF YOU ARE NOT MADE TO PROVIDE SOMETHING OF VALUE IN THE EXCHANGE (your highly skilled labor) THEN YOU ARE NOT ENGAGING IN A PROCESS THAT WILL SUSTAIN YOU FOR THE LONG RUN. You will return to that same table tomorrow for you to receive you fish.

Liberal Altruism has harmed the ability of many in our community to acquire skills that they can make use of to sustain us outside of the social system that was created.
It is very intersting to me that a White person's ideology trumps his desire to perpetuate his race and thus White Conservatives are racists while White liberals just LUV Black folks.---Constructive Feedback

And...here we go, again, down of personal issues; obviously ignoring the fact that 'THEY' have spoken. LOUDLY, saying 'THE PROTECTION OF YOUR ACCESS TO THE VOTING BOOTH SHALL TERMINATE IN 2007.'

You ignore the slap in the face to argue about the integrity of the person(s) who denied exercise of your rights.

Amazing!!!!!

What do you call that?


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
Look what white CONservatives have done or present themselves to black folks, compared to white liberals, then you tell us.


Black folks have a problem with WHITE RACISTS not White Conservatives nor White Liberals.

If you want to play this game - look at the state of Black people internally from a cultural stand point after accepting the "small pox laced blankets" handed out during the Great Society.

You all focus on INTENTIONS. I place a greater premium on RESULTING OUTCOMES.

The bottom line is when you engage in a transaction in which you receive the nourishment that you need for your sustinance IF YOU ARE NOT MADE TO PROVIDE SOMETHING OF VALUE IN THE EXCHANGE (your highly skilled labor) THEN YOU ARE NOT ENGAGING IN A PROCESS THAT WILL SUSTAIN YOU FOR THE LONG RUN. You will return to that same table tomorrow for you to receive you fish.

Liberal Altruism has harmed the ability of many in our community to acquire skills that they can make use of to sustain us outside of the social system that was created.



**So since black people agreed en masse with white liberals instead of conservatives who really possess a racist ideology....the masses of black people (the majority) was wrong in their assessment of the issues? And conservative blacks always repeat soundbites from white conservatives from a broad rhetorical point but never explain themselves specifically...that is why in the other threads I have narrowed my questions about AA down to adults....to eliminate the diversonary and deflective answers about school kids when I questioned lowered opportunities and college enrollments.....even though I hope you do not think that I am not swift enough to realize that your response that discusses k-a2 and kids does not address the college enrollment and professional inclusion question because....hold onto your hats....kids do not go to college or work in professions...so that response is irrelevant to my specific question about people who are ADULTS in the PRESENT.


I have yet to see how programs in the 60's that provided resources and opportunities to blacks hurt blacks....maybe since you are a blackCon, you bought into that ronald ray-gun black welfare queen bullshit......that we all just lay around and get high and buy cadillacs if we receive gov't assistance.....well hello....many blacks used that schit for education and uplifted themselves from poverty....and if the schit had only worked like that for ONE black person....then it was still worth it....because not jack shit else was on the table as an alternative........

** I notice that your perception of blacks are generally based on a lot of racist azz stereotypes generated by the right......you brothers sound just like you have the societal accomodations whites have when you "cop the white man's posture" and regurgitate his soundbites.......
quote:
So since black people agreed en masse with white liberals instead of conservatives who really possess a racist ideology....the masses of black people (the majority) was wrong in their assessment of the issues?



I am not here to judge the "correctness or wrongness" of the choices that the masses of Black people (the majority)" have made.

I am asking you to answer the question:

ARE YOU SATISFIED AS TO WHERE TOO MANY OF US STAND RIGHT NOW ON A RELATIVE BASIS?

Has the policies that we have followed for the past 40 years EFFECTIVELY transformed us as a community and sub-population in an opportunity rich nation?

The wise man realizes that sometimes it is best to take a few steps back, resurvey the landscape and move forward on a slightly different road.

ARE YOU SATISFIED KEVIN?

WHAT EVENT DO YOU IMAGING HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE ALONG THIS SAME COURSE THAT YOU PREDICT WILL TURN THINGS AROUND FOR THE BLACK AMERICAN AND HAVE US BEYOND THESE CURRENT CHALLENGES?

PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS HONESTLY AND YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE ANSWER THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE.

(It is interesting that it is so important for YOU to talk to me as a "Black Conservative" in the collective rather than to address and/or refute what I am telling you as an individual with my own thoughts.)
I am not never satisfied...but I see you will try and put the onus on me when YOU are the one that supported things and people who slowed down the present rate of progress that showed a positive trend for 20-30 years, for a promise and a hypothesis of what is unproven to work. I am not going to go into that...refer to Noah's or Faheem's post about firing a coach that shows promise of getting to the Superbowl based on the trends in his performance....to get a coach that has not proven shit and living off of the hope that he will get you there....you are trying to shift the discussion but it ain't happening.....why do you support the people who support policy that reduces opportunities for ADULT blacks in the PRESENT? What is logical about doing so as a black person yourself?
quote:
I am not here to judge the "correctness or wrongness" of the choices that the masses of Black people (the majority)" have made.


**You say this in your post, but isn't it the black conservatives (you included) that talks about black folks allegiance to the Democratic Party as undying of faithful or somne schit like that? I can probably retrieve the post where you eluded to as much. Now that is a choice of the black masses you stated a problem with....now you come back and say it is not your job to judge the choices that the masses of black people make......please make up your mind bro.....but all of this weaseling and deflection from my direct questions is why I really do not f-k wit black conservatives......or why conservatives decry academia.....because when they are called out on the rhetoric to support it with specifics, they use diversionary tactics in order to not rebut their own flawed thinking that does not have a logical premise to it......the question about reduced opportunities for black adults proves as much....blackCons have some really observable behavioral traits when it comes to accounting for their beliefs......i wonder if you Cons yourselves realize how obvious they are.......
You know, it scares me when I even almost agree with CF Smile But in a way, I see his point.

My belief is that back in the 60's, the Civil Rights Movemement was the right thing to do. It was a good thing, and what has resulted from it are things that needed to be done. Fast forward 40 years and what I see is that it and more needed to be done. The rights achieved at that point and the equal opportunity laws that came from it have been needed. But, in only going in that one direction, we still are not ending up where we need to be.

Part of that is because the White society that acquiesed to those rights and laws have not and still do not play fair and have not and do not hold up their end of the agreement. The opportunities we have achieved we have because we kicked the door down ... not because it was willingly or affectionately opened for us. Some are still trying to reclose it after all this time.

I do believe that we need a new direction. I believe that the new direction that we need to take now is to look at the opportunities that have opened up and are available to us now, and combine it with what worked for us so well before we took off on this 'equality-for-all' course that the Civil Rights Movement put us on. Before, we had to take care of ourselves and our own communities ... because we were relegated to that course by the racism and discrimination that were the business-as-usual practice of this society. We had to build our own neighborhoods, frequent and patronize our own businesses, depend on ourselves to make sure education was a priority in the lives of our children.

Believing in the "Black people now have full rights and opportunity" propoganda has made us relax and rest on our laurals, perhaps expecting for those that have told us that to actually make it be true. And it's not. We need to realize that we do indeed have more opportunities ... but they certainly are not unconditionally opened to us as a whole, and for the majority of us the odds of obtaining those opportunities are definitely more against than they are for. Be that as it may, I think that those us who are able to take advantage of those opportunies should pass them back to those for whom they are hard to reach.

If what develops out of that is separate but equal, I have no problem with that. Because between the two integration/separation isn't anywhere close to as important as the equal part!! That's the goal. That's the direction. That's the ultimate destination.

Or at least it should be.
quote:
You know, it scares me when I even almost agree with CF Smile But in a way, I see his point.



The old saying "A rose by any other name is just as sweet" can be used to put my words in their proper perspective: "The fact that I have said what appears to be truthful or plausible words makes them no more or less the case because of the baggage, ideology, bias, or what ever additional qualifier is used.

Such a tendency to only "hear truth" when the broadcaster is favorable to you is part of the problem that we have as a people.

It is more important to have your own defined set of values and beliefs and then measure various "broadcasters" against this preexisting stick. (I am not accusing you of doing this absent more evidence).

I ask that you agree or disagree with what I say NOT with the astonishment that you agree or the existing expectation that you will disagree.

Noah and Faheem know that they must pigeon hole me into a certain corner so that any of my arguments are made NOT based on what I think but based on what I have been told to think, in their view.
When I hear Bush refuse to renew the Act, especially section 4 I will join with you, taking the front line in the protest.

For now you are just debating coming and going.---Constructive Feedback

While I thought this was a curious rationale for information staring you in the face in 'black and white', I also thought maybe this is just how the 'conservative brain' works.

'Leave it alone.' I thought.

Sort of a 'don't confuse me with fact' view of life.

But then you said:


Such a tendency to only "hear truth" when the broadcaster is favorable to you is part of the problem that we have as a people.---Constructive Feedback

This left me wondering.

Here you identify that behavior as 'part of the problem that we have as a people.'

With that being the case, what do you recommend as a solution?


PEACE

Jim Chester

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