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Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
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But she and I continue to not speak to one another because its really better this way.


Why is it better? You two CAN'T communicate about anything other then religion? Is it that she won't stop talking about it our that you can't refrain from "saving or protecting her from the nonsense"?

I'm not trying to be funny but I'm curious why if she has stopped trying to convert everyone then what is the problem?


We already tried that and it DID NOT WORK okay. You know how people get when they suddenly "find God." They can't seem to talk about anything else! Saying condescending and trite religious phrases like "I'll pray for you" and "You need Jesus" has to be in every one of their absent-minded discussions. And it's nauseating. I don't need you to "pray for me." I need you to acknowledge that it is not YOUR right or YOUR responsibility to impose your religious beliefs onto others. THAT'S WHAT I NEED!!!!!!!!!! I don't need some ignorant ass fool who thinks that just because she found a Bible someplace that she has the light and no one else trying to school ME on something that I learned like 10 years ago. BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. And I'm tired of these religious people putting on a front like they are morally superior to people with this "lead by example" bullshit. We know that you all are FAKE and PHONY so save it for someone else okay. Just because you got my sister does not mean you're going to get me because I won't let you!!!!! I'm sick of it. These ignorant religious zealots claim to love God and they are FAKEST people on the planet. The only people they care about are themselves and their beliefs. They don't even eat right (most of them), they eat garbage, they drink garbage, they smoke cigarettes, they don't have REAL values and morals, they do the same or worse things non-religious people do, they don't even love themselves the way that God made them trying to be someone they're not. Most of them just go to church to wear fancy dresses, dance around, and talk shit about each other. And I don't understand why my sister would betray m and align herself with these people when our family taught her better than this. She is so gullble and stupid for letting them get her like that. I'm getting upset. So I can'tt talk about right now.
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Dear Rowe... it's good to spit it out... all the hurt and anger.

Of course you're angry with her... let it out and try to let it go so you can heal a little.

And before you say STFU FireFly... what does she know...? Wink I've had a very similar event with my sis and she was older and old enough to know better. The event hasn't been resolved, unless you call 'running away' some kind of resolution.

Yours may or may not work out... in my case my sis opted to literally disappear from the family unit... and leave two frail and ill parents grieving for her... so much pain! And so much for being a good christian Roll Eyes

Talk to as many people as you can.... let it out, scream, cry, shout whatever it takes. But also feel the love that is in fact all around you... trying to reach you... from others. It's there, and that's what it's there for... to help you heal.

Then maybe when you feel stronger, talk to her again.
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Originally posted by FireFly/art_gurl:
Dear Rowe... it's good to spit it out... all the hurt and anger.

Of course you're angry with her... let it out and try to let it go so you can heal a little.

And before you say STFU FireFly... what does she know...? Wink I've had a very similar event with my sis and she was older and old enough to know better. The event hasn't been resolved, unless you call 'running away' some kind of resolution.

Yours may or may not work out... in my case my sis opted to literally disappear from the family unit... and leave two frail and ill parents grieving for her... so much pain! And so much for being a good christian Roll Eyes

Talk to as many people as you can.... let it out, scream, cry, shout whatever it takes. But also feel the love that is in fact all around you... trying to reach you... from others. It's there, and that's what it's there for... to help you heal.

Then maybe when you feel stronger, talk to her again.


"Us" Against "Them"

First I need to apologize to Brother Midlife for responding to him in that way. Obviously, I lost complete control over that response. But I do appreciate your kind words and continued interest in my dilemma. I just have a problem with religious people in general, and I probably always will. Quite honestly, I have a history of experiences dealing with these people, most of them have been traumatizing and negative.

You may or may not be able to relate to this, but Black people are very traditional and religious, so when you grow up in a family that is anti-religious, strongly "Afrocentric," and lives a lifestyle that is very much different from the way most African-Americans live, you get treated like an outsider. And some people can be really cruel. Growing up, I've always had to defend myself and my sister against ignorant friends and family members who could never understand why we were not religious, why we did not attend church regularly, why we were vegetarians and ate "wierd food," why we were not permitted to chemically treat our hair, or why our mother "practiced Voodoo" (which she didn't; they only believed she did because she wears (dred)locks and sports Afrocentric jewelry and clothing all the time). The better part of my childhood was lived fighting against ignorant people who simply could not grasp anything beyond what is being told to them in church! From my experiences, rather than informing people and making the people more conscious and aware, seemingly, attending church only makes the people close-minded, intolerant, and unaware. Therefore, to observe my sister morphing into a religious person by attending church (of all places) regularly and aligning herself with those who I've always considered our enemies, is very disappointing.
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First I need to apologize to Brother Midlife for responding to him in that way. Obviously, I lost complete control over that response. But I do appreciate your kind words and continued interest in my dilemma. I just have a problem with religious people in general, and I probably always will. Quite honestly, I have a history of experiences dealing with these people, most of them have been traumatizing and negative.


No need to apologize. I probalby should aplogize to you since I belong to the religious group that has been a source of pain for you.

It is still a bit funny in a sad way that you can recall how it is to be around people that don't understand, accept, or respect your choices in life. And can recall how people can turn away from you just because you don't belive like they do but then become so upset at the choices your sister is making.

Yes I understand that you have no use for the "Bible thumpers" but religion doesn't hurt people...people hurt people IMHO.

I pray (I know you don't really care but I will any way) Big Grin that you and your sister can find a way to reconcile your differnces.

I also have to ask. Is it the fact that your sister is finding something in religion that you feel is "fake and phony" or is that you feel betrayed that she has gone over to the side of the enemy and those that have hurt you in the past?
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Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
I probalby should aplogize to you since I belong to the religious group that has been a source of pain for you.


I Want To Be Free From ALL Systems of Oppression and Control

This is acceptable Brother Midlife so long as you do not impose your religious beliefs on others. It is the imposition and religous arrogance with which I have an issue. As soon as my sister got brainwashed by her former boyfriend's father, who is also a retired minister, right on cue, she began feeling as if her newfound relationship with God made her better than everyone else, including her family, who are not religious and never step foot inside a church. As expected, my sister began trying to convert all of us and used any petty flaw in our character and/or personality as a justification for why we need to "get back in church." Loudly and obnoxiously singing gospel songs and purposely parading around us with an excessively jovial demeanor was also done to show us just how much more "happy" we could be if only we "submitted ourselves to God." I wanted to vomit.

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It is still a bit funny in a sad way that you can recall how it is to be around people that don't understand, accept, or respect your choices in life. And can recall how people can turn away from you just because you don't belive like they do but then become so upset at the choices your sister is making.


Again, I would not have an issue with any choice that my sister has made if only she, like so many other religious zealots, were not so intent on making the world over into one big monolithic religion. She could worship a rock for all I cared. My gripe is with her deciding to align herself with a religion that encourages bigotry and intolerance, something that my family has always and continues to be against, and then exemplifying this intolerance via her interactions with us, her OWN famiy!

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Yes I understand that you have no use for the "Bible thumpers" but religion doesn't hurt people...people hurt people IMHO.


This is true. But think about this: If you notice that those who do the MOST of the world's hurting seem to be attracted to one particular religion, why would you want to align yourself with this group of people? Instead of joining their pursuits, one would think that you would be much more interested in determining what is being taught inside the paridgm of this religion that makes people feel that they have an authority to recreate the world's spiritual landscape. Questions that should be dwelling in your mind are: Why does everyone have to believe what these people believe, relate to God in the ways that these people relate to God, acknowledge God using the gender that these people use, and use the same text to which these people refer? WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE SO POSSESSIVE OVER THEIR SPIRITUALITY?

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I also have to ask. Is it the fact that your sister is finding something in religion that you feel is "fake and phony" or is that you feel betrayed that she has gone over to the side of the enemy and those that have hurt you in the past?


Great question. Both facts accurately describe my feelings and thoughts toward this situation. My sister knows that damn near 100% of the time the people who claimed to be "Godly" were phony. Their behaviors NEVER coincided with their professed beliefs, and many of them were just as ignorant as the day is long. In most cases, the only thing that justified their reasons for believing in God and attending church was TRADITION. "I do it because my grandmother did it" and "Going to church is just something you're supposed to do" were the commonly-expressed reasons for why people carried on this phony relationship with God and religion. I set myself apart from these types of people, because ironically, instead of being the most amoral and corrupt, I've noticed that those who are not religious tend to be the most honest, trustworthy, and authentic in their beliefs and behavior.
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There is a metaphorical song on Amel Larrieux's (featured in my avatar) latest CD, Morning, called "Gills and Tails" which communicates exactly how I feel in the company of these religious vultures, and just as a African-American woman exising in a suffocating system of oppression in general.
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