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Date: Monday, March 21, 2011
By: The Associated Press

Jesse Washington, AP National Writer


Jalen Rose grew up poor in Detroit, the son of single mom and an NBA player he never met. He helped transform basketball culture as a member of Michigan's iconic Fab Five team, then earned more than $100 million as a pro baller.

Grant Hill came up wealthy in the D.C. suburbs, the child of an NFL running back married to a corporate consultant. He helped establish Duke University as a paragon of success and virtue in college basketball, then overcame terrible injuries to enjoy a long NBA career.

So which one is the "authentic" black man?

The question may seem irrelevant. But when Rose said that he considered black Duke players like Hill "Uncle Toms" when he was a teenager, he exposed a sensitive and longstanding issue for many African-Americans: If blacks succeed in a white man's world, and do not conform to certain assumptions of how blacks should act, are they less black?

Rose's comment — aired Tuesday in an ESPN documentary Rose produced on the five black Michigan freshmen who rode their wave of talent, hip-hop style and trash talk to the 1992 championship game — inspired to a response from Hill on The New York Times website. Hill's riposte spent several days atop the Times' most-emailed list, and more than 96,000 people shared it on Facebook, stoking a free-wheeling debate on the Web and in print over which basketball star had the better point.

"I hated everything I felt Duke stood for," Rose said in the documentary, describing his feelings as a 17-year-old high schooler. "Schools like Duke didn't recruit players like me. I felt like they only recruited black players that were Uncle Toms."

Hill responded that "Jalen seems to change the usual meaning of those very vitriolic words into his own meaning, i.e., blacks from two-parent, middle-class families. ... To hint that those who grew up in a household with a mother and father are somehow less black than those who did not is beyond ridiculous."

Chandra Guinn, director of Duke's Mary Lou Williams Center for Black Culture, said the argument went far beyond sniping between college hoops stars from decades ago.

"There are bigger issues here," she said. Among them: the denigration of children from single-parent homes, and adults damaging the self-esteem of black boys. Guinn also senses "a moment of revelation about black men's hurt. There's often a feeling of being 'less than.' It seemed to me that both of these men, for different reasons, have felt that way."

Duke junior Julius Jones resents suggestions that "success somehow challenges your blackness. That if you go to school, get good grades, matriculate to an elite institution, that somehow makes you less black."

Jones grew up in Portland, the son of an electrician and an accountant, and attended a majority white elementary school. In middle school, black kids saw Jones with white friends and told him, "You're an Uncle Tom, you don't want to be black, you talk white, you act white," Jones remembers.

When Michigan met Hill's Duke team for the 1992 championship, the Blue Devils were the clean-cut defending champs, and started three white players. Duke crushed the Fab Five by 20 points. ("I am proud of my family. I am proud of my Duke championships and all my Duke teammates. And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five," Hill concluded his blog post, with a gentlemanly flourish of trash talk.)

Two decades later, Duke is still known as the rare school that mixes high academic standards and graduation rates — for both black and white players — and powerhouse basketball.

"The bottom line is this: (Duke does) recruit a certain type of player ... a lot of players from private schools," Rose observed while explaining his comments in an ESPN interview.

Kenny Osakwe, a black Duke student, did not disagree, but suggested Duke players should not be tarred merely because they are fortunate. "I'm friendly with a lot of the team, and it's true, most of them do come from relatively affluent families," he said. "That's the culture here at Duke. And you never hear of any recruiting scandals, everything is done the right way.

"Duke didn't have their Final Fours reneged," Osakwe said — an allusion to the games Michigan forfeited after it was revealed that some players, including Fab Five center Chris Webber, had accepted money from a Michigan booster.

But by operating in that fashion, the school is open to claims that it is elitist — and that the players it recruits are merely black genetically.

"Why doesn't it seem like Duke ever takes a chance on a guy from a background like Jalen's, instead of giving an opportunity to someone who was born on third base?" asked Reginald C. Dennis, a black journalist and basketball fan.

He remembers being angered by sports columns in the late '80s and early '90s, when hip-hop was merging with sports culture, that disparaged swashbuckling players like Rose.

"Grant was the one they liked," said Dennis, who was raised by married parents in a New York City housing project. "They always want to separate the good negro from the bad negro. Grant was used as the example."

Dennis once owned dozens of hats featuring the names of various college teams. "I didn't have a Duke hat," he said. "I never even saw a black person with Duke anything. I wore my Michigan hat until the M fell off."

"Black people have been saying for 20 years what Jalen Rose said. This is just the first time it was done so publicly," said Dennis. "It shocked white people who didn't know the conversation was happening."

"That's what this is all about," agrees Ron Miller, author of "SELLOUT: Musings from Uncle Tom's Porch." "There's an ongoing discussion in the black community about what constitutes authentic blackness."

Miller, a black conservative, describes the meaning of the term Uncle Tom as "a boot-licking apologist for white people, someone used by white people who is subservient to their whims and desires."

He notes that although the term originated with Harriet Beecher Stowe's classic anti-slavery novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin," the book's character was a heroic figure who refused to divulge the location of escaped slaves. White minstrel shows then changed him into a lackey often played by whites in blackface, Miller said.

He said he does not know any real-life Uncle Toms. "Most of the people I know who have had that label cast upon them are simply trying to play by the rules," Miller said.

"Rather than trying to force an entire race to conform to a single model, we should celebrate the variety and energy that comes from people across the spectrum."

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I watched the Fab Five documentary and it's was one of the best that I have even seen in regards to the real story behind those five Michigan freshmen who changed the way basketball looked and their pure honesty that was revealed in how their handeled their young lives constantly as stars in the spotlight and all the negative issues that they had to deal with.

The real issue here regarding Jalen Rose and Grant Hill and the "Uncle Tom" comment both who both have successful and lucrative careers playing NBA basketball (Rose played 13 years and is now an ESPN analyst and Grant ill is still playing in his 15th year) has more to do with their genetic pedigree; their fathers who were both successful professional athletes and the family decisions that they made which resulted in poverty and resentment for Jalen Rose and love, devotion and prosperity for Grant Hill before each one became accomplished and famous multi-million dollar NBA stars.

Grant Hill's father, retired NFL played Calvin Hill, who played 12 years in the league, graduated from Yale University in 1969 with a degree in history. At Yale, Hill was a member of Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity (Phi chapter), where one of his fraternity brothers was President George W. Bush. He also was a member of the secret society, St. Elmo, which Bush's Attorney General, John Ashcroft, had joined five years earlier.

Prior to attending Yale, he was awarded a scholarship by his family doctor, Dr. William C. Wade, to attend the Riverdale Country School in the Bronx, New York. At Riverdale he was an accomplished athlete in football, basketball, baseball, and track and field, often leading teams that defeated athletic arch-rival Horace Mann School.

His wife Janet Hill, Grant Hill's mom, is a graduate of Wellesley College, where she shared a suite with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

She currently sits on the boards of several organizations, works as a corporate motivational speaker, and works for the Dallas Cowboys organization as a consultant who specializes in working with troubled players. Additionally, Mr. Hill is a consultant to the Cleveland Browns Football Club and Alexander & Associates, Inc., a Washington, D.C. corporate consulting firm.

As a consultant with the Cleveland Browns, he helped form a group of Cleveland Browns' players to control and eliminate drug and alcohol related problems. Mr. Hill has written several articles on sports and academia for national publications, makes appearances at university campuses and business firms, throughout the United States. He addresses several topics including the problem of drugs and alcohol and the work needed in this area, and the important relationship of sports and academia.

Calvin Hill Day Care Center in New Haven is named after him, in honor of Hill's work for children.

Calvin Hill & Grant Hill

Jalen Rose' father Jimmy Walker, is a retired NBA player who played 9 years in the NBA. Walker was a two-time All-Star who scored 11,655 points in his career. Walker played basketball on the streets of Bostons Roxbury neighborhood. He starred at Boston Trade High School, and was noticed in the schoolyards by Celtics' star Sam Jones. Jones took an interest in the 6'3" teenager, and steered the average student to his own alma mater, Laurinburg Institute, a Black preparatory school in North Carolina once attended by Dizzy Gillespie. At Laurinburg, Walker improved his grades.

At Providence, Walker's game (much as that of Michigan star Cazzie Russell) was compared to that of the premier player of the era, Cincinnati Royals superstar Oscar Robertson. Walker averaged 23 points as a junior, and led the nation with 30 points a game as a senior. His high point total of 50 points came vs. Coach Bob Cousy's Boston College team, and he was named MVP of the prestigious Holiday Festival Tournament in Madison Square Garden. He was also one of the first college players to use the between-the-legs dribble.

Walker led the nation in scoring in his senior year, averaging 30 points a game, without the benefit of a three-point line. Walker's 2,000-plus points led Providence for four decades, until his all-time scoring record was broken in 2005 by Ryan Gomes. However Walker was able to accomplish this in only three seasons, since the freshman rule had not been in effect.

Walker was drfated and selected number one overall in the 1967 NBA Draft by the Detroit Pistons.

Despite playing in two NBA All-Star games, Walker never reached his full potential as a pro, partly due to his weight gain. His game had been predicated on quickness. Nonetheless, he averaged 20.8 ppg. in 1969-70, 21.3 in 1971-72, 19.8 in 1973-74, and averaged almost 17 per game over a nine-year career. The numbers are all the more impressive when one considers that Walker teamed with star guards such as Dave Bing in Detroit (now it's mayor), and Nate Archibald in Kansas City-Omaha.

Jimmy Walker left Jalen Rose's mother prior to his birth and took no part in the child's upbringing. Jimmy Walker passed away at the age of 63 in July of 2007 due to lung cancer and Jalen Rose never knew his father Jimmy Walker. Never even met him.

Jalen Rose also coaches summer-league youth, After a team loss, Rose led the squad downstairs for a postgame pep talk. As the team disbands, Rose opens a side door, which opens to a darkened, cluttered office. "This is the place where I really learned who I was," he says.

He learned this particular lesson 22 years ago from the late Sam Washington, who was the director of St. Cecilia. Tired of Rose's constant goofing off in a sixth-grade class, Washington led him to the basement office. Clicking off the lights, he fed a reel into a projector and played highlights of Walker -- a solidly built shooting guard who reminded many of Oscar Robertson -- on the wall.

"That's your father," he told Rose, who sat mesmerized by the footage. "You have the same potential to be very special."

Rose had long heard whispers about his biological father being a ballplayer, but was clueless until that moment about the extent of Walker's success. That's because his mother, Jeanne, rarely spoke about the man who abandoned her after she became pregnant in 1972.

"What was there to say?" says Jeanne, who met Walker at a popular West Detroit nightspot and didn't realize he was married at the time. "A year after Jalen was born, I told Jimmy, 'If you don't give me a dime, at least be a father to your son.' He couldn't even do that."

And that caught most who knew Walker by surprise.

In Detroit, kids were drawn to Walker's magnetic personality, and the All-Star guard welcomed them. He was in that first wave of NBA players who became a fixture at St. Cecilia and the nearby YMCA, offering fatherly advice and even tickets to Cobo Hall to many of the kids who played at the gym.

"Jimmy was the one guy who stayed in the community," Bing says. "He had a great connection with the local kids."

A great connection with all except for Rose, who was born in January 1973, months after Walker's trade to Houston. While Walker enjoyed healthy earnings befitting a top-round pick and an All-Star, Jeanne struggled raising four kids as a single mom on a Chrysler keypunch clerk's salary.

"No electricity, no hot water, no heat -- at times we struggled," Rose, the youngest of Jeanne's kids, says. "We'd wake up in the morning and wash with water we heated on a hot plate. And we'd go to bed at night wearing skull caps, sweat shirts and gloves."

Rose's life, in Motown, was a ball of confusion. Some days, his mother's struggles made him bitter. Other days, Rose was determined the man he would never see was the man he'd try not to be.

A few weeks after watching the film, Rose tore open a pack of basketball cards, and guess whose image looked up at him? Walker. He slipped the card into his pocket and carried it everywhere he went. In those back-and-forth trash-talking sessions in the schoolyard, Rose's trump card was his Walker card. "That got me a lot of respect," Rose says.

Rose began to create an alter ego to his famous father. Hearing that Walker put on shows with his basketball skills at St. Cecilia, Rose did the same. Knowing that Walker had worn No. 24, Rose flipped the script and selected No. 42.

Looking back, Rose calls those actions "little spiteful things." But the reasons he did them, the drive that carried him to become one of the top high school prospects in the country by his senior season at Southwestern High School, were clear:

"I made a vow that one of the main things I wanted to accomplish in my life is that one day he'd know my name."

As Michigan and his Fab Five team mates prepares for its first NCAA tournament game, Rose says, Detroit Free Press columnist Mitch Albom -- who interviewed Walker for a book on the Fab Five -- hands him an envelope with an Atlanta return address.

The name on the envelope: Jimmy Walker."

Easy decision, opening the letter, right?

"Not easy at all," Rose says. "It's the middle of the NCAA Tournament and I'm extremely focused. With a game coming up, I wasn't ready to deal with it. So I decided to wait a day."

A day became two days. Two days turned into two months. Two months turned into years.

It's not that Rose forgot about the letter: It was with him during his remaining years at Michigan, accompanied him in his rookie season in Denver, and sat in clear view in his desk drawer, right next to his wallet and car keys, when he was traded to Indiana.

Why the wait?

"I wanted to be mature enough when I read it," Rose says. "Whether that letter represented an overhand right by Mike Tyson, or the love of my life, I just wanted to be ready."

In 1997, Rose's second year in Indiana, the Pacers drafted Austin Croshere out of Providence. Croshere had won the school's most valuable player trophy (the Jimmy Walker MVP Award), and his presence became a steady dose of Jimmy Walker tidbits:

"You look just like your father. ... You should come visit Providence, everything at the school is named after your father. ... I've got a couple of trophies with your father's name."

In 1999, Croshere handed Rose a piece of paper. On it was Walker's phone number.

And, still, Rose waited.

But a year later, while packing for a road trip, Rose grabbed the envelope. And in Miami, on a bus ride to the team hotel, Rose slipped the letter out of a book and -- after eight years -- read it.

"It was his introduction to me, letting me know how proud he was of my accomplishments," Rose says. "He wanted me to know that it was [Albom] tracking him down that made him public. He said in the letter he was proud of the man that I had become."

Rose called Walker, but got Walker's friend instead. The friend linked Rose with Walker's sister. The sister passed Rose's information to Walker and the two exchanged messages until Rose picked up the phone and, after 27 years, nervously uttered the first words he had ever spoken to his father:

"Can I speak to Jimmy?"

Rose told his father that he had no hard feelings, that he was happy with his life, that he knew exactly where the athleticism he was blessed with came from. Walker told his son that he had followed his career, and that he was proud of how he had developed as a player.

"He was super-shocked," Rose says of the call. "But he handled it with poise. And he made a point of telling me he wanted nothing from me."

The two would speak several more times, and ended each conversation promising a face-to-face. But the e-mails became a bit more infrequent. The phone calls, too.

It took 27 years for Jalen and Jimmy to connect. It took less than a year for the two to drift apart.

Throughout Rose's NBA career, he could never escape being Jimmy Walker's son. He'd see Bob Lanier and hear stories about Walker's incredible scoring ability. He'd talk with Jerry West and the conversation invariably turned to the time the two paired in the backcourt during the 1972 All-Star Game.

 A couple of years ago while Rose was playing against the Suns, Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni stood behind him and mumbled under his breath: "Yeah, you remind me of Jimmy when I was his practice dummy." D'Antoni was Walker's teammate in Kansas City.

His career over, Walker settled in Kansas City, and later spent several years in his hometown of Amherst, Va., and in Atlanta. He moved back to Kansas City in 1994 after his daughter, Jamesa Walker-Thompson, was diagnosed with cancer.

"He always told me to be a fighter," says Jamesa, a cancer survivor. "When he got cancer, he used me as an example. He would look at me and say you didn't go anywhere, so I'm not going anywhere."

In Kansas City, much of Walker's time was devoted to programs that aided youth in that city. His passion outside of work was tennis, and Walker spent much of his free time at the 47th Street courts near his home. "Had he chosen tennis over basketball," says longtime friend Sam Dowdy, "he would have been a star there as well."

Then Walker seemingly vanished. Bing lost contact with him. The retired players' association couldn't locate him. "We had guys from the Kings," says Lacey, who last saw Walker in 1989, "who had no idea he stayed in Kansas City."

At Providence, it took 34 years for the school's biggest star to return to campus, when the Friars honored him as a legend in 2001. After a weekend of reliving memories from a great career, he was gone again.

In 2005, as Ryan Gomes was on the verge of breaking Walker's school scoring record, Providence tried to contact Walker with no success. "It was like this mystery," says Providence assistant athletic director Arthur Parks. "Where is Jimmy Walker?"

Knowing that Rose was Walker's son was widely known. But Dowdy says Walker never discussed Rose until a ride to the tennis courts in early June. "We were in the car, he mentioned that he had spoken to Jalen several times over the years, and then he started crying," Dowdy says. "From there, he spoke about him every other day. There was a real desire to see him."

And everything was in motion for that to happen. Rose, aware of Walker's deteriorating condition, was making plans to visit.

That Friday night, June 29, shortly after Lacey's conversation about Rose, Walker's condition worsened and he was rushed to Truman Medical Center. On the morning of July 2, with his daughter, Naja Walker-Thompson, and her mother, Sandra Thompson, by his side, Jimmy Walker died.

At Jimmy Walker's funeral, it represents the first time Rose and Walker have shared the same room. Yet even now in Walker's death, Rose is unable to set eyes on the man who gave him life. Walker, his body ravaged by lung cancer, has been cremated. Rose is able to look only at a photograph of Walker perched next to an urn.

According to a writer who knew Jalen Rose, he had always tried to arrange a meeting between the two of them and was unsuccessful in doing that which always bothered him because he knew Jalen. It would have been great for the two of them to get to know each other, but it didn’t happen.

Later, at a gathering of Walker's family and friends, Rose is asked about his earlier moment of silent reflection.

"I was hurt, saddened, and selfishly disappointed that we never got a chance to meet," says Rose, who then lowers his head and closes his eyes. "You want to know something? We were supposed to meet this month, we were supposed to meet this month."

"Some wanted to be doctors, some wanted to be lawyers," Rose says. "I wanted to be a basketball player, and because of Jimmy, I always knew that I had it in me. He wasn't there, but he inspired me.

"And for that, I'll always be thankful."

****The tale of two fathers and the life decisions that they made in regards to their maturity, their family, their children, being fathers and how it affected each child mentally (abandonment and resentment vs love and affection) who were both born with the athletic genes and pedigree of their fathers and ended up in the exact same place: Successful college careers at top universities and in the NBA with successful careers, fame, millions of dollars and post careers: Rose, an ESPN sports analysts with huge upsides and his new "Jalen Rose Leadership Academy in Detroit" which will eventually enroll 480 students in grades 9-throuth-12.

The school will be operated in partnership with University of Detroit-Mercy to offer students a pre-college experience.

Tuition is free. The academy has received a Michigan Future Schools initiative grant which carries with it the expectation of an 85% graduation, college enrollment and college graduation rate.

Rose says his involvement in the school will be hands-on. He’s not just lending his name to the academy.

Retirement will probably also adorn Grant Hill when he retires and due to their father's decisions as parents, the mental and psychological seeds that were planted in each son, especially Jalen Rose, offered a much different prespective on life as young men growing up and now approaching middle age for both of them.*****

Abandonment and resentment vs love and affection......The fuel used on opposite ends of the social & economic spectrum in order to achieve athletic &  NBA success.

IMO, In Jalen Rose' mind, If he only had his father who was an exception to the rule from the ghetto and an NBA all-star, a solid upstart and beginning, a family base and foundation similiar but maybe not exactly the same as Grant Hill had, he could have equalled Grant Hill in collegiate/professional athletic legacy and respectibility because all the pieces were certainly there for that to happen.

And the term "Uncle Tom" regarding the Duke basketball program, its selection of certain African American players and Grant Hill probably would not have even entered Jalen Roses' mind or uttered as an 18 year old.

Last edited by Cholly
" If blacks succeed in a white man's world, and do not conform to certain assumptions of how blacks should act, are they less black?"

Hey, that's not why Black people call other Black people "uncle toms,"  and Black people who keep trying to widen the divide between Blacks with money and Black without money in this country need to stop helping white racist perpetrate the white man's revised version of what Black people perceive to be an 'uncle tom.'  First, you have to have deliberate betrayal and unsolicited undermining of another Black person involved.
While it does sound to me like Jalen Rose definitely has some anger/resentment/abandonment/Daddy issues ... it seems to me his anger is mis-directed!!

Why blame Grant Hill (or any other Black Duke player) for what seems more like the prejudiced/bigoted/racist practices of DUKE UNIVERSITY ... and not the (Black) players they pursue to recruit?!?! 

I mean ... it's not Grant Hill's fault if Duke makes a practice out of racially-profiling and nit-picking a specific "type" of player.  And would Rose suggest that those players - other young, Black men such as himself - reject the opportunity for a free, full-ride education from a top-notch university ... simply because they wouldn't offer someone like him one? 

Crabs in a barrel. 
Quote by ER: "Why blame Grant Hill (or any other Black Duke player) for what seems more like the prejudiced/bigoted/racist practices of DUKE UNIVERSITY ... and not the (Black) players they pursue to recruit?!?!"

Well it seems that after all the interest, the numerous week and a half long discussions on ESPN, other sports talk shows, sports radio and other numerous sport writers and analysts regarding Jalen Rose' comments to include Jalen Rose himself, no one bothered to interview or ask the man at the center of the debate in regards to Duke basketball recruiting; Duke's athletic director Kevin White and Duke's head basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, the man totally responsible for the nit-picking, selection and the recruiting of those "certain type" of Black players. He's been Duke head basketball coach since 1980.

He is also the coach of the United States men's national basketball team, whom he led to a gold medal at the 2008 Summer Olympics and the 2010 FIBA World Championship.

Mike Krzyzewski

It seems that in the world of Div I college basketball and sports overall, Mike Krzyzewski has the prime seat next to God (or the Devil) and has the option to eat from the same plate and despite all the hoopla about this issue, nobody dared to thread those waters; ask a question, make a comment or conduct and interview with him about the apparent what, when, how or why this issue seems to be (even if it's untrue) the case with Duke University basketball.

Jalen Rose and his teammates aren't the only ones across college basketball who notice this trend and it seems odd because news journalists see it also and I thought that they love no matter who it is, to dig and expose the dirt in the sports world no matter where it lies; to live and die for the juicy story swirling with controversy.

But this guy? Nada.

They talked about this ad nauseum and his name wasn't even brought up or uttered once during all those discussions as a possible cause of racist practices (they just kept it "Black") so IMO despite all the curosity and tidbits of information about any sports figure that for good or bad, make the sports headlines, this guy seems to be "Mr. Mafia" untouchable in regards to any type of negativity being thrown his way regarding this issue by anybody: sports writers or analysts and especially since this hotly contested debate continues to remain hot.
Last edited by Cholly
Quote by nuggyt: " Duke has standards in place and they choose their students accordingly. Some of them so just so happens to be Black."

But is it fair?

As I stated, there was negativity thrown his way (by Jalen Rose & Jimmy King) in regards to this issue and as a continuation of the story, ESPN decided to carry it for one and a half weeks as a hot topic of discussion.

And since they did that regarding the issue being discussed (stereotype & preception) in this situation was the Duke University basketball program (and not so much about Grant Hill being called the toxic buzzword "Uncle Tom" or a "bitch" on the basketball court during competition by then, two 18 year old kids who told their truth as adults that grabbed everyone's attention and got this whole thing started) and their selection process and standards of how and why they recruit certain Black players which may a bit different and not pertain the same at all to the White players they recruit (it maybe an unspoken or unwritten rule in which you may never find out) that they select in regards to the stereotype or preception of a Black athlete, then sports media, do a complete 360, go directly to the source in order to get a clarification since it was such a hot topic and that person is (1) Duke's athletic director and especially (2)Duke head basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski.

And that recruiting standard (as a preception or stereotype) could also be in regards to selection for all Duke athletic teams because as you make a collective decision of who to choose and offer a full athletic scholarship, it's easy to say upon complete comparsion, analysis, discussion & review, that "Black player A and Black player B are both equal: quality students, have the same or similiar high academic standards and accomplishments coming out of high school, have the same or very similiar basketball skills that fit Duke basketball and it's style of play, both have not had any problems in regards to their behavior, attitudes or problems in their personal lives or the lives of their parents or relatives but the one difference and determining factor would/could be where one player is from: livelihood, location, family background, family academic achievement and socioeconomic status which gives the preception that one selectee is much better than the other based soley on those family standards and not basketball skill or ability to academically do the work in the classroom, thus saying and assuming that in the case of Jalen Rose (from the ghettos of Detriot, Michigan) and Grant Hil (from the affulent suburbs of Dallas, Texas), that one player based on family background and accomplishment with everything else being equal, is better equipped than the other.

Preception: one is and has been better "suited, represented and molded as a person" than the other.

As we already know, corporation and businesses make those decisions all the time in regards to who they hire and who they promote, especially when it comes to Blacks who are equally or much more educated, skilled and qualified that their White counterparts but don't get the job or promotion based on "where and who I relate to better or who's more like me"...The same could possibly be said about Duke and their recruiting practices of Black players because at the end of the day, it is a business and many of those determining decisions of who to select are not written but knowingly among the decision makers, unwritten.

And as Jalen Rose stated, Duke won't recruit me but they will recruit my kids". (maybe not now after this but you know what I'm sayin')

IMO, the media fell short of doing just that. The story was there in order for them to go forward and they probably chose not to.
Last edited by Cholly
Yes it is fair for Duke to have particular standards because it is quite clear that they don't discriminate racially.  Without looking into it too deeply, how do you or Rose or anybody else know the background of the black players that have  gone through or are currently at Duke?  I do know that two of the most prestigious universities in america Stanford, and Harvard, have black head basketball coaches.  And those men are Duke grads.  To me that is kind of a big deal.
Quote by nuggyt: "Without looking into it too deeply, how do you or Rose or anybody else know the background of the black players that have  gone through or are currently at Duke?"

I don't know and I'll assume that Jalen Rose may or may not know either but the topic was breached, it was a valid debate issue that IMO, worthy of required further investigation and according to you "Duke does not discriminate racially" and what I take from that and correct me if I'm wrong, you are referring to "Black vs White" racial discrimination and not "Black vs Black" racial discrimination in regards to those attributes that I addressed earler in regards to what a University's unwritten agenda, intreperation and vision makes one Black person different from another Black person when all things in the realm of being qualified are on an equal footing.

So in essence, the best qualified Black applicant based on qualifications, may not get the, Stanford (Johnny Dawkins) or Harvard (Tommy Amaker) having Black basketball head coaches from Duke (which is a big deal) if that unwritten mental process by the decision maker or decision makers to separate one Black applicant from the other is used.

Example: The other black applicants (if any) applying for those two head coaching positions at Stanford or Harvard could or may have been from other major Div I schools with seasoned of experience(s) as assistants or head coaches with proven winning records equal to or more qualifed (who also gave a sensational interviews) than those who were chosen and it may have been a selection for Dawkins and Amaker based soley on "background and family" (Duke University) and not the other factors as qualifiers.

The assumption being and going back to my original point, that you're getting a "better" Black head coach simply due to him been better "suited, prepared, represented and molded as a person" than the other applicants based on his "Duke" family and background.
Last edited by Cholly
@ Cholly .....

No offense, but .... I think you're trying to be waaaaayyyyy to nice/civil/"politically correct"/socially (and conversationally) conservative about this!!!

But let's just call the spade exactly what it is, here!! 

You can look back at the Duke basketball roster going back several decades and see that they are an elitist, holier-than-thou institution that thinks they're too good to offer a scholarship to the likes of a Jalen Rose ... or anybody else in like circumstances!!    Period.  Plain.  And as simple as that!!

"Coach K" would probably NOT give a scholarship to Rose's kids ... based on who their daddy is .. regardless of their socioeconomic status at the time of recruitment!!  As you said before .... E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y - who knows anything about college ball, recruitment, and the system - knows what's up when it comes to these kinds of schools!!  All those sports commentators, the fans that were watching, anybody else involved in the conversation, and even a whole bunch of folks that weren't ... KNOW why Mike Krzyzewski and his athletic director choose to recruit in the manner they do!!

It's no secret ... and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

As a private institution, they can recruit and choose their students however they want ... and nobody has anything to say about it!!  But ... you're absolutely, 200% right that somebody SHOULD have asked "what da problem is?!?!" 

Why do all of their Black players "fit the (similar) profile"??  Why Hill and not Rose??  Why the appearance of a racist, elitist recruitment system ... if there isn't one??? 

And why didn't they ask??  Because in a racist, elitist environment ... you're just not supposed to.   And so nobody did.  But ... inquiring minds wanna know!! 

Jalen's documentary was about his attitude about Duke and Grant Hill WHEN he was a member of the Fab Five squad.  It was a recounting of how he felt 20 years ago as a member of that squad.  As usual, certain media types leave out critical parts of the story to lead people to incorrect conclusions. 

Do a little research and you'll find Jalen is also very philathropic and is doing plenty for the Black community.  Not a crab in the barrel, just misrepresented to "invent drama".

Report: Mike Krzyzewski rips Jalen Rose for comments in 'Fab Five'

Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski was offended by comments made by former Michigan player Jalen Rose in the ESPN documentary "Fab Five."


Rose, who also played at Detroit Southwestern, said in the documentary that when he was in high school, he believed African-American players at Duke were "Uncle Toms."

Obviously, that was a poor choice of words and very insulting to everyone here at Duke but especially, not just our African-American players, but any African-American students," Krzyzewski said Tuesday on ESPN Radio in Chicago.


Krzyzewski's comments were published by


Grant Hill, who played at Duke and for the Pistons, wrote a column for the New York Times that was critical of Rose's comments.


Since the documentary first aired, Rose has attempted to clarify his position — that he held those beliefs about Duke players when he was young, and that he no longer has that impression.


Krzyzewski recruited another member of the Fab Five, Chris Webber.


"We were very successful against them and, to be quite frank with you, we recruited Chris Webber," Krzyzewski said during the interview Tuesday. "I didn't recruit Jalen Rose because we had Grant Hill and I'm happy with that. We didn't look at the other, Juwan Howard (because) we knew he wasn't going to come to Duke. The other two kids (Jimmy King, Ray Jackson) we didn't think were the caliber that could play as well as Thomas Hill and Brian Davis and Billy McCaffrey."





Jalen Rose -- Arrested for DUI


Basketball stud Jalen Rose -- a member of the legendary "Fab Five" squad -- was arrested for driving under the influence in Michigan earlier this month ... TMZ has learned.

Law enforcement sources tell us ... the 38-year-old former NBA star was driving along an icy roadway on March 11 when he lost control of his vehicle and crashed.

Cops were called to the scene and Rose agreed to undergo several voluntary roadside sobriety tests. He was later transported to a nearby facility for chemical testing ... those results have not yet been returned. Rose was eventually arrested for driving under the influence.

We're told Rose was in his hometown of Detroit in preparation for the opening of the Jalen Rose Leadership Academy ... a charter school designed to provide under-privileged youth with college prep experience.

TMZ spoke with Rose's L.A.-based attorney, Keith Davidson, who told us, "We look forward to working with the authorities in Michigan and addressing these matters in court, not in the press. We have no comment at this time."


Jalen Rose Pulled Off Air By ESPN.


ESPN pulled NBA analyst Jalen Rose off the air on Friday after it was revealed that Rose didn't tell anyone about his DUI arrest for almost three weeks, according to Michael McCarthy of USA Today.


It was reported on Tuesday that ESPN analyst Jalen Rose was arrested for driving under the influence in early March.


ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz emailed USA Today's Game On!, explaining that Rose and his employers are "taking this very seriously" and both parties "agreed that he will not be on our air while he addresses this situation."


On Thursday, the Poynter Institute's Kelly McBride and Regina McCombs published a story titled"Rose's concealment compromises ESPN."


The report explains that ESPN encourages its talent to "tell their bosses about potentially embarrassing personal issues that might become public."


Follow-up story:


Rose's concealment compromises ESPN.



Last edited by Cholly

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