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I believe in life elsewhere in the universe. Statistically, this seems quite probable. What is much more difficult to posit would be the form of such life. Sentient life is a whole matter. For this reason, I remian very sceptical regarding UFO's or that they have visited earth. The scientist in me needs some hard data.

God has told you, O man and woman, what is good; and what does the SOVEREIGN ONE require of you but to do justice, and to be compassionate, and to walk humbly with your God?
I'll throw something out. I'd love to see what others think.

The fact that there is life here on earth demonstrates that, by definition, there is life elsewhere in the universe. Our tiny little solar system and planet are just grains of sand in the broader sea of other galaxies, etc. If life occurred here, it has to have started elsewhere as well. In essence, we prove that life can exist. Therefore if the conditions exist here, (and we now know that there are millions of other solar systems that could support life) it also exists in many many places throughout the universe.

Life is like a weed. If you see one growing somewhere, you can be pretty sure that there are others elsewhere.

The fact that we do not have current contact with "aliens" is probably more a function of our technological incapacity and the over-all size of the universe than suggesting that it doesn't exist.

What do you think?



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
Well, personally, because of what you've just said, is the reason that I think we have been visited by some of the "other life" that you speak of. Considering that fact that (if) there is other life out there, we do not have to be most intelligent! Eek Nor did we have to be the first created!

Therefore, I can easily believe that our technological inabilities have kept us from the same sort of exploration of "others." My only hope is that they aren't as prone to violence and colonization as "we" tend to be!! Hopefully, they have evoloved better than us in those areas ... or we could be in BIG trouble! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I'll throw something out. I'd love to see what others think.

The fact that there is life here on earth demonstrates that, by definition, there is life elsewhere in the universe. Our tiny little solar system and planet are just grains of sand in the broader sea of other galaxies, etc. If life occurred here, it has to have started elsewhere as well. In essence, we prove that life can exist. Therefore if the conditions exist here, (and we now know that there are millions of other solar systems that _could_ support life) it also exists in many many places throughout the universe.

Life is like a weed. If you see one growing somewhere, you can be pretty sure that there are others elsewhere.

The fact that we do not have current contact with "aliens" is probably more a function of our technological incapacity and the over-all size of the universe than suggesting that it doesn't exist.

What do you think?



Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.


I really need to refresh my memory on some of the details regarding the statistics with respect to planets or systems that could support life.

The issue with respect to ET's and UFO's however, is not simply some form of life, but a highly developed form of life. We are talking about some subset of life that evolved in the universe that has sentients, that has developed techologically for interstellar travel (we are talking tens, hundreds, or thousands of light years - a level of technology that we are most likely centuries away from), that are existing within the tiny window of gallactic/cosmological time that "we" have been around, and that have not become extinct at thier own hands, anothers, or natural disaster. If one compounds the probablities, it begins to look less likely that we are regularly being visited, at least in a way that has not been significantly confirmed or corroborated.

Again, this is just my take on the matter.

God has told you, O man and woman, what is good; and what does the SOVEREIGN ONE require of you but to do justice, and to be compassionate, and to walk humbly with your God?
Yes, I believe that the universe is filled with life.

Yes, I believe in UFO's. There are many objects that I have difficulty in identifying. Some of them fly. Razz

No, I do not believe that any alien species have visited here. Why would they want to? Having evolved on the surface of a nuetron star, they probobly believe that life is impossible on a planetary surface. The conditions for the existance of life simply don't exist here. Everybody knows that water in liquid form is poisonous to all living things. Big Grin

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


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kresge ...

In this part of your post:

quote:
I really need to refresh my memory on some of the details regarding the statistics with respect to planets or systems that could support life.


Are you considering the 'supporting of life' along the lines of life as we know it? Or our particular version of life? Isn't it possible that "life" could have a whole other form and different rules of existance than what humans believe it to be? And if that were the case, a planet like Saturn could have it's own variation of "life" couldn't it?

Just asking .... Smile
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

No, I do not believe that any alien species have visited here.


The thing that disturbs me about UFO sightings on this planet are the excruciatingly basic pictures/renderings etc. of the UFO's. Remember the "flying saucers" from the 1940s - 1960s? Knowing what we know now about science, space etc., do you really think that aliens, who have the technology to get here from who knows where, would create space craft so absurdly backward looking? 12 year olds can do better these days! Smile






Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
kresge ...

In this part of your post:

quote:
I really need to refresh my memory on some of the details regarding the statistics with respect to planets or systems that could support life.


Are you considering the 'supporting of life' along the lines of life as we know it? Or our particular version of life? Isn't it possible that "life" could have a whole other form and different rules of existance than what humans believe it to be? And if that were the case, a planet like Saturn could have it's own variation of "life" couldn't it?

Just asking .... Smile

Yes I am. I alluded in my first post for the possibility of various forms of life in the universe, including single cell organism that more closely resemble bacteria or even viruses. Yet, I do not beleive that life would be so dissimilar to what we know it as. There are constraints due to science which would dictate things such as size, energy consumption, etc.

Finally, there is an enormous leap from talking about the existence of life elsewhere in the universe and ET's or UFO's.

God has told you, O man and woman, what is good; and what does the SOVEREIGN ONE require of you but to do justice, and to be compassionate, and to walk humbly with your God?
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:

I alluded in my first post for the possibility of various forms of life in the universe, including single cell organism that more closely resemble bacteria or even viruses.


It's interesting to contemplate that there might be life out there that is as much advanced beyond us as we are versus bacteria or a virus.

Eek


Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by kresge:

I alluded in my first post for the possibility of various forms of life in the universe, including single cell organism that more closely resemble bacteria or even viruses.


It's interesting to contemplate that there might be life out there that is as much advanced beyond us as we are versus bacteria or a virus.

Eek



Let's just hope that they don't decide to demolish the Milky Way Galaxy to make room for that new Hyperspace Freeway.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja


Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch


It is a near statistical improbability that there is not life outside our solar system. I can't remember the exact number of planets and stars estimated in the universe, but apparently it would take almost a thousand years for a single person to count them all.

I am very iffy about UFOs in our airspace, there is so much evidence supporting both sides.

ETs, of course there is far more intelligent life then us out there. I find the notion of life that we don't know about fascinating. I don't think there would be too many life forms like any we know, the possibilities of evolution is so extensive, the opportunities for change of the likes we can hardly imagine are so many.

I actually fear our first contact with ET lifeforms, communication could be so easily misinterpreted. A smile could be seen as baring our teeth at them, which to them may seem akin to a threat. A bow may seem like complete submission, and result in other lifeforms believing that we are now their slaves.

I think that most contacts with aliens would be of a violent nature.
I know I read something about a "greater being" theory somewhere early in my life. I have always been intrigued by the thought of systems within a system. And it is a proven construction within our sciences.

Could it be, that some intelligence looks at us as we look at microbes? Or in the manner we look at sub-atomic material.

Could we be the constuction material of some larger material that in its conglomerate is a part of a greater BEING?

If that can be true, is the extrapolation of that construction reaching to deity?

We are exploring right?

PEACE

Jim Chester

JWC
While I would not be surprised to find other life-forms one day, it's going to be really hard to detect them. There are "billions" of star systems in our galaxy, most of which do not and cannot support life, but some undoubtedly can. There are billions of galaxies, too, so I am confident that somewhere out there are other beings.

The trouble is contacting them. If Einstein and General Relativity are right, we can't go as fast as light (relativistic effects like mass distortion prevent it), so we and they will be forced to crawl through the universe dying long before we can get anywhere significant. And the inverse square law says that, by the time our radio signal gets to them, it'll be very weak, probably too weak to detect.

And as for UFOs here, well, they haven't been to Roswell. The Morning Reports from there, recently declassified, show nothing unusual happening on the days that UFOs were supposed to have crashed and been found. They weren't.

So have they been here? I don' tthink so. Are they out there. More than likely. Will we ever meet? While I run SETI@Home on my computer in the hope that we will, I'm not hanging by my thumbs.

No, I don't think that UFOs have been here.
My brother and I had a conversation about this on New Years and he brought up a very interesting occurrence of sorts. He pointed out that it was not too long after the alleged Roswell "incident" that the military suddenly came up with the stealth flight technology ... the ability to create and fly an aircraft that has virtually no sound. Typically, they chose to use this technology to fly aircraft that can drop bombs on somebody without being detected!!

Not to be rude or anything, but does anybody really believe that back in the 1940's that kind of technology could have been "invented" by our gov't? I mean, it was a long time before any other technology of such dynamic came out of this soil. I would only compare it to something like the telecommunications boom that only recently really took off!

I don't know, it just really gave me something to think about.

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
My brother and I had a conversation about this on New Years and he brought up a very interesting occurrence of sorts. He pointed out that it was not too long after the alleged Roswell "incident" that the military suddenly came up with the stealth flight technology ... the ability to create and fly an aircraft that has virtually no sound. Typically, they chose to use this technology to fly aircraft that can drop bombs on somebody without being detected!!

Not to be rude or anything, but does anybody really believe that back in the 1940's that kind of technology could have been "invented" by our gov't? I mean, it was a long time before any other technology of such dynamic came out of this soil. I would only compare it to something like the telecommunications boom that only recently really took off!

I don't know, it just really gave me something to think about.


I do find it interesting that in that period we made severe leaps as far as air travel but know we can barely get a paper airplane to stay airborne. I look at the SR-71, developed in the 50's and still the highest flying and fastest plane on record.
There are 2 planes that do make be believe something is up
B58 Hustler, 1950's, scrapped b/c of technology. Identical to the B1 of today
The flying wing, 1940' and 1950's also scrapped but identical to the B2 of today.
Coincidence?

Catch
It almost seems illogical to assume that we exist and life exist on this one small planet in an enormously vast universe and no other life form can. If we exist, something/someone else can exist.
Acutally, we know of entire universes that exist that cannot be seen with necked eye, cannot be heard by the human ear, cannot be felt by human touch, and cannot be detected by the human sense of smell: germs,viruses,energies and some insects; all living in complete and virtual worlds of their own, why could it not be possible that other life exists that is not (at least so far, I guess) detectible by human senses and/or technologies.
quote:
Originally posted by ocatchings:

I do find it interesting that in that period we made severe leaps as far as air travel but know we can barely get a paper airplane to stay airborne. I look at the SR-71, developed in the 50's and still the highest flying and fastest plane on record.
There are 2 planes that do make be believe something is up
B58 Hustler, 1950's, scrapped b/c of technology. Identical to the B1 of today
The flying wing, 1940' and 1950's also scrapped but identical to the B2 of today.
Coincidence?

Catch


Wow, catch, I never even knew about those planes, but, hmmmm .... "highest flying and fastest plane on record" huh?

Kinda makes you go Confused Confused

Big Grin

BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
The Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B

In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. According to their traditions, the star Sirius has a companion star which is invisible to the human eye. This companion star has a 50 year elliptical orbit around the visible Sirius and is extremely heavy. It also rotates on its axis.

This legend might be of little interest to anybody but the two French anthropologists, Marcel Griaule and Germain Dieterlen, who recorded it from four Dogon priests in the 1930's. Of little interest except that it is exactly true. How did a people who lacked any kind of astronomical devices know so much about an invisible star? The star, which scientists call Sirius B, wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970.

The Dogon stories explain that also. According to their oral traditions, a race people from the Sirius system called the Nommos visited Earth thousands of years ago. The Nommos were ugly, amphibious beings that resembled mermen and mermaids. They also appear in Babylonian, Accadian, and Sumerian myths. The Egyptian Goddess Isis, who is sometimes depicted as a mermaid, is also linked with the star Sirius.

The Nommos, according to the Dogon legend, lived on a planet that orbits another star in the Sirius system. They landed on Earth in an "ark" that made a spinning decent to the ground with great noise and wind. It was the Nommos that gave the Dogon the knowledge about Sirius B.

The legend goes on to say the Nommos also furnished the Dogon's with some interesting information about our own solar system: That the planet Jupiter has four major moons, that Saturn has rings and that the planets orbit the sun. These were all facts discovered by Westerners only after Galileo invented the telescope.

The story of the Dogon and their legend was first brought to popular attention byRobert K.G. Temple in a book published in 1977 called The Sirius Mystery. Science writer Ian Ridpath and astronomer Carl Sagan made a reply to Temple's book, suggesting that this modern knowledge about Sirius must have come from Westerners who discussed astronomy with the Dogon priests. The priests then included this new information into the older traditions. This, in turn, mislead the anthropologists.

This is a possibility considering Sirius B's existence was suspected as early as 1844 and seen was through a telescope in 1862. It doesn't seem to explain a 400-year old Dogon artifact that apparently depicts the Sirius configuration nor the ceremonies held by the Dogon since the 13th century to celebrate the cycle of Sirius A and B. It also doesn't explain how the Dogons knew about the super-density of Sirius B, a fact only discovered a few years before the anthropologists recorded the Dogon stories.

It is also important to remember that although many parts of the Dogon legends seem to ring true, other portions are clearly mistaken. One of the Dogon's beliefs is that Sirius B occupied the place where our Sun is now. Physics clearly prohibits this. Also, if the Dogon believe that Sirius B orbits Sirius A every 50 years, why do they hold their celebrations every 60 years?

Sirius A is the brightest star in our sky and can easily be seen in the winter months in the northern hemisphere. Look for the constellation Orion. Orion's belt are the three bright stars in a row. Follow an imaginary line through the three stars to Sirius which is just above the horizon. It is bluish in color.

Sirius is only 8.6 light years from Earth. Astronomer W.Bessel was the first to suspect that Sirius had an invisible companion when he observed that the path of the star wobbled. In the 1920's it was determined that Sirius B, the companion of Sirius, was a "white dwarf" star. The pull of its gravity caused Sirius's wavy movement.

White dwarfs are small, dense stars that burn dimly. Sirius B is, in fact, smaller than the planet Earth. One teaspoon of Sirius B is so dense that it weighs 5 tons.

So did alien fish-men pay a visit to ancient Earth and give the Dogon their knowledge? Or was the Dogon's culture contaminated by western visitors? Or could the Dogon's have had ancient technical or non-technical means to find this information out? Or is the whole thing just a matter of coincidence?

The question maybe settled as larger and more powerful telescopes take a look at the Sirius system. According to the legend there is a third star: Sirius C, and it is around Sirius C that the home planet of the Nommos orbits. Most scientists do not consider any part of the Sirius system a prime candidate for life, though.

When Temple first issued his book in the 1970's there was no solid evidence of a Sirius C. In 1995, however, two French researchers, Daniel Benest and J.L. Duvent, authored an article in the prestigious journal Astronomy and Astrophysics with the title Is Sirius a Triple Star? and suggested (based on observations of motions in the Sirius system) there is a small third star there. They thought the star was probably of a type known as a "red dwarf" and only had about .05 the mass of Sirius B.

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