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Where and when has 'diversity' been anyone's strength? - SGT.

How can you demonstrate that it has not been?
Are you saying that only one segment of the population however you classify them has made significant contributions to this society??

I think history, common sense and REALITY says otherwise...

You would in fact have a harder case proving that "diversity" is detrimental. I don't even know why this is up for debate. But then again, I guess I do.

Some things, no matter how much they've purported, never really do change.

Go ahead Sgt. bring back the U.S. pre-60's!! Better yet, go back to the state of it's founding. I'm sure slavery is more than adequate proof that diversity is of no good use.

Nah... let's be true to the term. Give the Native Americans back every square inch of this country so we can really settle this diversity thing!
Demonstration #1.

Was this nation founded by a 'diverse' group of men, or by white christian male europeans?

Go on, don't be scared. If you really believe that diversity is a strength, you must have at least ONE example where diversity has proven to be a strength, no?

Should be easy to back up your support of 'diversity is strength', unless of course you've never considered this realistically before.

Another example, I see the racial strife of the nation, and I hardly attribute this as some diversity as a 'strength'. Yet I look to the Japanese economic miracle of the 1970's, who most economists attribute their productivity to the homogenuous nature of the japanese society which enable HUGE productivity and national goal orientation, all but impossible in some other more 'diverse' nations.

Someone mentioned that diversity leads to a better 'product', yet the recent economic history of Japan stands in stark contrast to that statement.

Your up.

[This message was edited by sergeant on September 16, 2003 at 01:27 PM.]
So the structure of diversity for you is the white christian men on top of the ladder, telling smaller diverse groups what and how to build? (if you see that as strength, you can have that.)

Aren't there any 'good' examples out there?

Truly disappointing that nearly everyone just scurrys away when confronted with what was presumed such a basic and revered tenet of diversity. Based on this reponse, it could very well be that the notion has no legs in reality, and is basically BS for the masses.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

If you really believe that diversity is a strength, you must have at least ONE example where diversity has proven to be a strength, no?



The Los Angeles Lakers.

As great a player as Shaquille O'Neil is, a team of him wouldn't win many games, now would they? Who would dribble? Who would play defense on the small, quicker perimeter players? Who would create a perimeter, 3 point threat, to free up the paint? Who breaks the press? Who is the "go to" guy when the other team is trying to foul? Who is the 12th guy on the bench that isn't expecting to play every night?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Was this nation founded by a 'diverse' group of men, or by white christian male europeans?



So, in your mind sergeant, was the United States better when it was ruled exclusively by wealthy white males, or today?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Its debatable mbm. But true diversity would be a Laker team consisting of men, and Women, a few muslims, some older folks, and some short slow people who can't dribble at all, not just all these tall, young, gifted, physically adept and strong young athletic MEN. Hardly a diverse group of people when you consider the 'other' types of human beings walking round out there.

In addition, you are attempting to demonstrate only the 'concept' that strength is diversity, but I'm asking for the reality in an empirical evidence way. In other words show me where its been true.

So, thats pretty lame mbm, but I enjoyed imagining a team of all Shaq's. I bet I could lead them to another championship!

Well, guess this is too hard a question. I want to thank whoever it was that posted this, didn't expect such a blank paper though.

Diversity is Diversity.
"So, in your mind sergeant, was the United States better when it was ruled exclusively by wealthy white males, or today?"

Better? Hmmm. I'd imagine it was 'better' for someone, don't you think mbm? Shouldn't you be asking is it 'stronger' today?

So, we've given up on this question regarding some examples of diversity as strength already mbm?? My my, that was quick. Well don't fret, I find we tend to do this with lots of what we 'think' we believe in our community.

Tomorrow another day, be sure to appreciate it.
I'm not surprised that when presented with an answer to your question that you scramble to redefine the question.

Here's a far simpler, second answer: couples. The diversity inherent in a couple made up of a man and a woman provides for a far more "productive" relationship than any other - if only determined by their ability to procreate. While there are, of course, other positive single-sex relationships possible, and aside from any gay rights issues that you may attempt to inject into this conversation to further convolute it, a man and a woman represent the perfect illustration of the power of diversity.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
didn't realize you were so homo-phobic mbm:-)

Well I seriously doubt that the last time you heard the slogan "diversity is strength" that the speaker was referring to something as mundane and commonplace as the basic heterosexual union between a man and a woman.


But to be polite, I'll address this latest attempt. In reality, the union of a man and a woman of roughly the same age for procreation or marriage in a heterosexual relationship is anything but diverse, it is the commonplace union, the normal situation, the average grouping, the 'business as usual', the biologically driven union, and the traditional way of things.

Actual 'Diversity' in relationships between human beings would include the homosexual union, the beastility union, between an adult and a child, or a polygamous union. I can also think of a few more 'diverse' examples that have to do with hair dryers, gerbals, and such, but thats for another thread.

I mean, nice try, but theres hardly any diversity in the biological necessity that leads to the common heterosexual union between a man and a woman. It was written on page one for god's sake! I'd call that the 'typical' heterosexual relationship between men and women, not a diverse type of relationship.

I can see you are trying. Maybe next time. But you aren't fooling anyone who can read mbm that you've 'answered' this, puhleeze.

Tell me, why is this so important for you to answer? THAT is what you should take away from this topic, not a meaningless series of half baked attempts to answer it. Some of the most prolific thoughts and ideas are ones that are left unsaid.

[This message was edited by sergeant on September 16, 2003 at 02:37 PM.]


[This message was edited by sergeant on September 16, 2003 at 02:43 PM.]
I know you've never heard of the concept of genetic diversity, but you should look it up. You may learn something. There's a reason why our DNA is made up of the genetic material of our parents.

Also, ever heard an orchestra made up of just one instrument? Pretty boring huh?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
sgt,

Take out all of the black workers/professionals in the various fields throughout the country and make it all lilly white.....do you REALLY think america would be as competitive? hell no!! the fact that they kept america lilly white and tried to use pig farmers over qualified blacks has made every industry in this country fail at one point or another.....you need to read diversityinc.com to see the monetary price paid for a lack of diversity...the IT field was a prime example...tried to keep it lilly and fade the brothers and sisters who knew networks out the azz....it has been documented how many companies have gone under from not being competitive....so if you ave qualified potential employees and you hire your cousins just because.....then your doors should close. Never mind the power behind marketing and inclusion .......
III. EMERGING VERTICAL MARKETS


1. ETHNIC BUYING POWER

Radical changes in immigration patterns, educational levels and annual salaries over the last 30 years among women and people of color have altered the consumer pool. But people of color, women and gays and lesbians still receive scant attention and advertising dollars from consumer companies. Media spending geared toward Latinos, African Americans and Asian Americans totaled $3.6 billion in 1998. Latino and African-American marketing campaigns commanded more than three-quarters of the money spent at $1.7 billion and $1.5 billion, respectively.1

While the dollars spent in 1998 represent a market that has more than doubled since 1993 (when only $1.7 billion was spent on multicultural campaigns), total media spending in 1998 was estimated at more than $200 billion.2 Despite the economic downturn, a few companies had specific budgets for multiethnic marketing. These companies include MasterCard, McDonald's, Ortho-McNeil, Procter & Gamble, General Motors, Ford and Pepsi-Cola. Even among those companies, only a few had the foresight to increase their percentage of advertising spending on multicultural campaigns.

For example, Procter & Gamble - maker of Tide detergent, Crest toothpaste and dozens of other supermarket products - capitalized on 40 years of Latino marketing by creating a Multicultural Business Development Organization (MBDO) two years ago. The group is based in Puerto Rico and has satellite offices in six of the top 10 cities for Latinos. Allstate Insurance is another standout, having attained number-one status in the Latino market in the insurance-services category by dedicating years to building a relationship with that community.3

Among Asian Americans, companies such as Johnson & Johnson, AT&T and Toyota are the forward thinkers. Research has shown Asian Americans are particularly loyal to companies that market to them. As a result, Johnson & Johnson's Tylenol boasts three-quarters of the Asian-American market in three separate categories (pain reliever, cold and allergy and children's pain reliever). Meanwhile, AT&T has one-third of the market for telecom services and Toyota has grabbed 55 percent of the Asian-American market in the auto category.4

Mercedes-Benz USA is looking to do the same thing among African Americans. By emphasizing issues important to the community, such as safety inspections and security features, and running advertisements featuring African-American icons Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington in 16 different African-American publications, Mercedes has found a logical way to expand the market for its Starmark pre-owned brand.9 Mercedes' motivation is easily explained: There are more affluent African Americans in the nation than ever before. For example, 51 percent of married African Americans now report incomes of $50,000 or more, compared with 60 percent of whites, according to census 2000 figures.5

Spending power is also becoming a factor in decisions to target ethnic consumers. Consumer-buying power among people of color nearly doubled over the last decade, growing at a much faster rate than overall U.S. buying power, according to the Selig Center for Economic Growth at the University of Georgia. The center projects that the collective buying power of African Americans, Asian Americans, Latinos and American Indians will reach $1.3 trillion by 2001 - up from $647 billion in 1990.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Some of the most prolific thoughts and ideas are ones that are left unsaid.



LOL! Particularly when with each post, the vacuousness of your premise becomes clearer and clearer!


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
A country founded by white men??? How can you discover something that is already inhabited by a race of people??? Eek

The IT field is a PRIME example of diversity. During the late 90's, most IT departments were filled with minorities from EVERYWHERE, India, China, Japan, Hong Kong, Africa, Jamaica, etc. I know because I was one of them. I even ran into people that I couldn't tell what race they were.

The big thing at that time in congress were them putting a cap on the Hb1 vistas that was allowed each year. People were hollering because of the foriegners (sp) taking the IT jobs.

The biggest problem now is American companies shipping IT jobs overseas. India, especially with their tech. skills and their cheap labor, is being flooded with American IT jobs.

UCLA in Los Angeles at one time was refered to as the University of CHINESE in Los Angeles. When accepting a candidate solely on merit for something like medical school, ASIANS were blowing away everyone. Nobody could touch them.

The pilgrams almost died out there first year here because they didn't know how to survive the winters. The native americans TAUGHT them how to survive. (I bet they are turning over in their graves about that one Big Grin )

History, even in this country, is full of examples where things wouldn't have even been accomplished if it wasn't for diversity.
"the concept of genetic diversity"
Guess that would matter if we were just 'genes'. But the phrase is 'our' strength.

"an orchestra"
You telling me its easier to teach an entire orchestra to play a piece perfectly than a single individual soloist? Doesn't sound like a 'strength' to me, sounds like a whole lot more sounds to worry about.

"dollars spent"
Doesn't sound like a strength either, in fact sounds like a lot more work in order to make the same amount of dollars.

"IT jobs"
From your own description, sounds like a whole lot of problems rather than any 'strength'.
Putting caps, shipping jobs, sounds like nothing but problems.

Someone said because the Indians gave the pilgrims food. Of course he also said they are likely 'turning over in their graves' now. That sounds like something that was a 'strength'?

No, you are all off the mark. When a politician or some organizer spouts the phrase 'Diversity is our strength', they aren't talking about genes, or about orchestras, or about advertising dollars, or about IT jobs, or about pilgrim survival skills. Now are they. Only one person touched on human diversity at all.


"I am copying over a post from our good friend sergeant to give his question the thoughtful circumspection and dialog that it deserves."
(mbm)

"with each post, the vacuousness of your premise becomes clearer and clearer!"
(also mbm)

Well, I wish you'd make up your mind mbm, thats a helluva 180 degree turn mbm.
You posted it here mbm, what was your 'premise'? Did you think because you don't like me that it would be a simple matter to answer a question I posed? Well well then, guess you were wrong obviously.

So, "Diversity is Our Strength", yet we can't think of a single example along racial, cultural, or 'people' lines where this was ever actually so.

Don't believe everything you hear I guess is the usual moral that would apply.
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

"I am copying over a post from our good friend sergeant to give his question the thoughtful circumspection and dialog that it deserves."
(mbm)

"with each post, the vacuousness of your premise becomes clearer and clearer!"
(also mbm)

Well, I wish you'd make up your mind mbm, thats a helluva 180 degree turn mbm.
You posted it here mbm, what was your 'premise'? Did you think because you don't like me that it would be a simple matter to answer a question I posed? Well well then, guess you were wrong obviously.


Friend, I like you! Make no mistake about it, you create great threads!! brosmile You do need to read a little less literally and seek out the nuance in writing a bit more though. My original post in this thread was very much tongue-in-cheek, designed to create an active thread - as it did!

Your question is an extremely simple one to answer. The fact is that every time someone answers you, you shift the question to suit your narrow perspective. Frankly, your premise is asinine, obnoxious, and offensive (not you, just your question!). It is even more so because you pose it here on AA.org. Go on back over to PW or wherever you hang and revel in the xenophobia and racism there. If you fear others different from you so much that you would deride any circumstance where anyone different from you would exist, well . . . life must be pretty darned difficult (and boring) for you! sergeant, the world is getting smaller every day and is getting more diverse every day as well. Either you come to grips with that, or you'll live a very miserable, isolated life.

That's friendly advice. brosmile

quote:
So, "Diversity is Our Strength", yet we can't think of a single example along racial, cultural, or 'people' lines where this was ever actually so.


How successful do you think global companies are in rolling out sales people of just one race and culture to sell? Don't you think companies that hire people with similar backgrounds of those who they sell to are going to have an easier time doing business with those diverse communities?

How will you warp this answer? Roll Eyes


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Sargent:

Earlier in this thread you said, "Was this nation founded by a 'diverse' group of men, or by white christian male europeans?"

I think you answered your own question with that post. You have something in mind, but it isn't "diversity." It seems to be in your perspectic.

A diverse group of men, and women, and children were the first group at Plymouth Rock, The Mayflower in 1620.

A more monolithic group of men, all believed to be white, landed in 1607 at the site that became Jamestown, Virginia. That group at Plymouth Rock was diverse, but admittedly narrowly so.

YOur point is that white males from Europe were the early settlers of the North American continent, and what became the United States in particular. This makes the group more diverse not less. Many more nations, more ethncities, were involved. But they were all "white."

Appaently you consider "white" an ethnicity. That is a primary effect of the teaching and persuasion of "Charlie." "Mr. Charlie." He imposed the concept of color on what became American Society somewhere in period 1645 to 1660.

"White" is not an ethnicity no matter how one applies the European American formula. "White" remains a color. It is only more in the power structure of the United States.

America is sufficient example of diversity as a success model.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
I like you too mbm, although I often disagree with you politically and socially. I read literally because words are important, and we need to mean what we say and say what we mean. Theres far too little of that round here, and it leads to misperceptions and misinterpretation, something I see daily on these boards. (in fact you are doing it now)


To conclude, here is the question again:
"Where and when has 'diversity' been anyone's strength?

Now, when he hear that phrase uttered, are the speakers talking about global companies? Don't think so.

The question hasn't "shifted", it hasn't "changed" and it remains unanswered here.

I've seen alot of proposed 'answers', but none of them demonstrated the 'strength' in the phrase. The simplistic offerings here, about a company selling and such things, hardly touch on the question at hand, and are not what speakers of the above phrase are speaking of when it comes to 'our diversity as strength'.

When that global company you mentioned wants to sell some of its wares in China for example, and needs to roll out some personnel to handle their China accounts, do they import Indians or Africans to sell to their Chinese market, or do they use CHINESE personnel almost exclusively? Thats hardly a tribute to diversity.

Fact is the diversity is not wanted in your scenario, they stick with the most non-diverse proposition possible, CHINESE for CHINA, ARABS for ARABS, etc. Fact is some companies go 'global' to "overcome" the market diversity, not because diversity is viewed as a strength.
Diversity in business is an additional TASK to be overcome, requiring additional resources, methods, work, and regimentation, that otherwise would not be required were it not necessary to overcome certain diversities.

What was most interesting to me in all this was the fact that hardly anyone even mentioned the United States as their example of 'diversity being strength', with maybe one exception. That would have seemed the obvious example, despite that same person living in denial about who it was that formulated and founded this nation. And that in itself says alot about how we really view the concept of diversity. Yes, the question was originally a 'setup' for my own reasons, and I wasn't disappointed.

Either way you view this, it was a great question and the point is to think about things we take for granted, and not rely on only 'nuances' to form our opinions and world views. Yes, in some ways the world is becoming more diverse at national levels, but have you not seen the associated problems and issues that develope because of that? Just pick up any paper and read.

My life is amazing. Just returned from Africa bout two weeks ago, and before that the carribean. But I understand your stereotyped view and images. I think you should save the elitist condescension for someone who might need it, you likely have little on me my friend.

Peace to all.

[This message was edited by sergeant on September 17, 2003 at 08:49 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Yes, the question was originally a 'setup' for my own reasons, and I wasn't disappointed.



So, instead of asking questions, why don't you describe your worldview as it relates to diversity? What's your solution? What are the practical implications of your thinking?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
I find that questions allow participation. In other words rather than tell folks how to think, I 'ask' them to think.

And I've provided my view of diversity already, but you knew that. The solutions you yourself have already discussed, the 'global' company was one. The 'implications' are that we shouldn't just get all tingly when we hear a phrase over and over, and simply believe or accept it just because we 'want' to believe the speaker. We need think on things ourselves, independently of what others are telling us to think. But I think I've already covered that too.
quote:
So, instead of asking questions, why don't you describe your worldview as it relates to diversity? What's your solution? What are the practical implications of your thinking?


There's no way he does that explicitly as a stand alone, freely offered statement of position. Then he would expose himself for the crock he is.

To claim that when people here mention "Diversity" that there was no thought of it in the business realm - e.g. IT field/industry - when that's the first example people mentioned is a some matador type of denial. Or as you said, trying to change the question.

I would think that most people would classify Diversity as "working together"... Now, how someone can talk about "diversity" and not mention the workplace at whatever level is beyond me... but apparently not for Old Sarge!!
quote:
Diversity in business is an additional TASK to be overcome, requiring additional resources, methods, work, and regimentation, that otherwise would not be required ...


I think that says it all about his perspective. Diversity is hard-work (and unnecessary) by his estimation.

BTW, MBM...
I agree, SGT. and anyone else that wants to detract from what is said here and posit their own views should be made to take those views to their logical conclusions. But he's too afraid of spelling it out. That doesn't afford him as much cover as asking questions and merely attacking the perspectives of others.

Regardless... SGT. you can't hide!!!
quote:
I find that questions allow participation. In other words rather than tell folks how to think, I 'ask' them to think.

And I've provided my view of diversity already, but you knew that. The solutions you yourself have already discussed, the 'global' company was one. The 'implications' are that we shouldn't just get all tingly when we hear a phrase over and over, and simply believe or accept it just because we 'want' to believe the speaker. We need think on things ourselves, independently of what others are telling us to think. But I think I've already covered that too.

bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs

And I guess we're suppose to "simply believe or accept" what you have to say?? sleep sleep
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

We need think on things ourselves, independently of what others are telling us to think.


I'd like you to do this. You may have suggested your opinion, but I'd like you to unequivocally articulate your thinking on this matter for us.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:
So the structure of diversity for you is the white christian men on top of the ladder, telling smaller diverse groups what and how to build? (if you see that as strength, you can have that.)

Aren't there any 'good' examples out there?

Truly disappointing that nearly everyone just scurrys away when confronted with what was presumed such a basic and revered tenet of diversity. Based on this reponse, it could very well be that the notion has no legs in reality, and is basically BS for the masses.


Sorry, should have responded earlier. I was only pointing out that it was a multi-ethnic group of men that actually built this country while white men ruled it (and other ethnicities at the same time). That was not an example in proving you wrong.

If I understand your original posts correctly, you are asking for exmples where diversity was a strength?

There are numerous examples where empires were built by a diverse group of people, but, like you, I would be interested in someone providing an example where "diversity" was not just one ethnic group exploiting one or many other groups.

True diversity means that even the people on the top are representative of the community. MBM, using your NBA references, most of the players may be black, but none of the decision makers are. Or your global business examples.That's not diversity, that's exploitation.

Today's ethnic diversity used by the white liberal elite is just a code word for political correct code work for status quo and assimilation.
If all these immigrants who work in the IT section decided to truly use their economic resources to become more involved in the political or economic workings of this country, and it went against the interests of those in control now, now quickly would their "favored status" status change?

So yeah, seargent, I think people using "diversity is our strength" is bs, but maybe not in the way you are trying to frame it. The concept of diversity being our strength is certainly valid, but that fact that those in control have never or will never allowed true diversity is the reason no one can provide any examples. Those in power don't like to share.

Quite simply, the left elite see diversity as okay only if it doesn't rock the boat too much. The right see diversity as a threat to their (white?)"superiority." And guess who get the short end of the stick in all that?

However, I could be misinterpreting what you are trying to say.
Smart white folks are beginning to realize that it is in their self-interest to utilize diverse groups. The best answers are never found utilizing only one perspective, set of skills, or discipline. The power of diversity is that it enables a broader, multifaceted approach which has no option but to deliver a better end product. The contention that homogeneity produces excellence is a myopic and simplistically self-serving fallacy. People that are really focused on achievement, whatever their field, realize this. Why else would corporate America be solidly in favor of Affirmative Action as a means of ensuring that they have the talent that they need to be maximize shareholder value?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Whatzgoin:

Actually, when one says 'built' the nation, they aren't speaking about people who dig holes or pick cotton, or empty latrines. Anyone can do those things anywhere.

The term 'built' is reserved for those who planned, those who financed, those who risked, and those who had the vision to 'design' the structures, institutions, and foundations of the nation. The 'founders' are who the term is commonly applied to.

In the case of America, those were almost exclusively ALL white christian males with european ancestry. Lets not dispute the indisputable here.


But I think your response is the best one offered here, very intelligent and well thought out. Thanks.
Is the racial strife and friction in this nation a product of your 'power of diversity' mbm?

Your last response has now shifted away from the concept of 'diversity', and now you are describing 'flexibility'. It is not 'diversity' that 'allows' a broader, multifaceted approach, but flexibility or 'openmindedness'. There are single individuals who exhibit broad and multifaceted approaches to issues and problems due soley to their ability to be openminded and flexible in their thinking. Not the same as 'diversity' within a group.

The way you are using the 'corporate' or business example of 'diversity' so far, is that you see a corporation or group who's truck has just overturned and spilled 20,000 pounds of cow manure, and the group exhibits its own 'diversity' by ordering its group of 'niggers' to go clean up the mess. Thats hardly a good description of diversity as strength.


(strange mbm, I could have sworn you accused ME of 'shifting' the question earlier. Now you are 'shifting' the meaning of diversity. Diversity is not just an 'approach' to some problems, it is a physical reality or characteristic. You are getting even further off the track now)

[This message was edited by sergeant on September 17, 2003 at 10:23 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Is the racial strife and friction in this nation a product of your 'power of diversity' mbm?



Racial discord is a function of the weakness of man. It flows from our general insecurity as human beings, and our struggle with difference. As most know however, real growth and achievement of any kind only comes after struggle and perseverance. Just because it is difficult to be moral and righteous, and to demonstrate character and integrity, doesn't mean that we should resign ourselves to living in the trough of life.

quote:
Your last response has now shifted away from the concept of 'diversity', and now you are describing 'flexibility'.


While you apparently will ignore our requests to lay your thinking out - I guess the above quote will have to suffice. It's pretty clear how you view the world. I'm sorry.



There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Is the racial strife and friction in this nation a product of your 'power of diversity' mbm?



Racial discord is a function of the weakenss of man. It flows from our general insecurity as human beings, and our struggle with difference. As most know however, real growth and acheivement of any kind only comes after struggle and perseverance. Just because it is difficul
But thats not what I asked you mbm. Put it this way, in a nation with no diversity, would we see the racial strife and friction we see here?

Is this 'struggle with difference' a strength in your book? Seems like diversity causes its share of problems, no?

There are many black folks, some I've read here, who are not for integration into white society. Do they also 'value' diversity, or seeking something other than diversity?

(as far as my thinking, I'm laying it out in each and every post, as are you. so lets not play silly games alright)
quote:
Originally posted by sergeant:

Put it this way, in a nation with no diversity, would we see the racial strife and friction we see here?


Your question is nonsensical. It's like focusing on labor pain and not childbirth.

Despite that, of course we'd see "strife and friction". That's the human way, unfortunately. If it was not based upon racial issues it would be on some other. For example, it is not racial diversity that is driving the ongoing struggles between the Serbs and Croats. The Russian Revolution, for example, wasn't based upon racial divisions. What about the Indians and Pakistanis? Not a racial issue there.

You seem to equate "friction" with a completely negative outcomes. Again, under your thinking, you would be against childbirth because of the pain of labor.

quote:
There are many black folks, some I've read here, who are not for integration into white society. Do they also 'value' diversity, or seeking something other than diversity?


No, I think they are focused on equality, on getting white America off their necks! In their minds the most effective means to create equality (and peace) would be to do so in segregated communities. Of course, this would not be the case if we weren't living under the conditions that we do in this country.


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
"this would not be the case if we weren't living under the conditions that we do in this country"

Oh, so I see that this is yet another example of 'diversity' NOT being a strength, but quite the contrary.

Additionally, the serbs, croats and russians, according to you, were also not so enamored by with any sense of 'diversity' being their strength either. Agreed.

Interesting.

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