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Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has refused to spare the life of Stanley Tookie Williams, the founder of the murderous Crips gang who is awaiting execution early Tuesday. Frown
```````````````````````` "Dipped in chocolate, bronzed with elegance, enameled with grace, toasted with beauty. "My Lord, she is a Black woman!" -Yosef Ben-Jochannan
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....and considering the strong evidence, Tookie Williams should be executed.....

no ands, ifs, or buts


Voices from those who knew him!

*******************************
"November 23, 2005

Fond Memories of Tookie

I'm being sarcastic. The first thing you have to understand about Tookie Williams is that this is what he looked like. Knowing that this man used to hang out at parks and beat down people for fun, that he used to force people to oil his body, gives you some idea what Tookie was all about. The Tookie I knew hung out at Centinela Park in Inglewood with another huge dude named 'Mouse' doing pullups and otherwise being as badass as humanly possible. Basically, he did whatever he wanted to, and in the end what he wanted to do was be the most intimidating and dangerous man anywhere. He got his wish of course. Who was going to stop him?

I got other Tookie and Mouse stories second-hand from a kid named Timmy Green who was a bodybuilding roughneck too. Back in highschool, Tim Green was about five feet tall and 2 feet thick. He was a devastating football player, a little walking muscle. We all suspected that Timmy was a Crip, but nobody said it straight out, after all ours was an exclusive Jesuit prep school. I heard that Tim is dead, shot by another Crip somewhere. We kinda knew that he had a deathwish. Tim owned a red Honda motorcycle, a CB400 with the swivelly pipes. I rode with him once, and I immediately experienced a kind of terror I've never known before. Tim was absolutely fearless riding on the wrong side of the double yellow line of Crenshaw Blvd at 70 miles per hour. But if you talked about Tookie, Tim showed fear. Admiration to be sure. Tookie went everywhere in LA to prove that he was the was the baddest, and nobody lived to win a challenge, but fear too. Tookie was the man that thugs feared. There could only be one reason for that. He was more than buff, he was deadly.

You could not grow up in the 'hood in Los Angeles during the 70s and not know about Tookie or the Crips. It's probably hard to understand if you didn't grow up in a roughneck neighborhood. But street smarts are just that. You are forced to rely on the human instinct for survival, you navigate the degrees of danger and you grow senses that middleclass live has no use for. Tookie today looks like somebody's grandfather but don't be fooled. Back in the day, there were all kinds of gangs, some no more troublesome than the Jets or the Sharks. Truth be told, Tookie got busted right around the time gangs were going off the chain, and his Crips were the reason. The short version of the story is this, Crips were dangerous and they "Don't die, they multiply". There came a time when they became so pervasive and dangerous that anyone not in a gang was vulnerable - and then beyond that to the point at which gangs that didn't bang hard had to get hard. The Crips in the late 70s were basically escalating street rivalries into open warfare. From fists to knives to guns. The Crips created the Bloods because the Brims and the Pirus had to bang together or hang separately. When I was a kid, there used to be a saying: 'Crips are cool, but Piru rule'. By 1980, nothing was cool.

Me personally, I've battled Crips hand to hand. I've dealt with all kinds of knuckleheads, roughnecks and thugs. But everybody knows their limits. I know I am not to be a warrior and I didn't have to go to jail to learn any of that. I didn't have to wait until somebody wrote a rap song about 'dead homies' to know what that was all about. I grew up in the black neighborhood when basically few people had a choice on where they could get real estate. I know what it's like to walk through the Jungle at night, and I know if the man cursing on the bus is actually going to swing at you. But I only know what it's like to live around people who were basically about 1/3 as dangerous as Tookie Williams.

The scariest part of my neighborhood was West Blvd over near Adams. I could go into it, but it was over there wher I learned the meaning of getting 'curbed'. Now if you're dainty, skip to the next paragraph and agree me because I'm about to describe it. Everybody knows about being 'jumped in' and 'jumped out' of a gang. Basically about 7 of them beat you down until you can't stand up. That's child's play. You basically get curbed if you rat to the cops. What does that mean I asked? Well, you lay down in the street perpendicular to the and facing curb. You open your mouth and bite the concrete corner of the curb and somebody comes up behind you and kicks you in the back of the head. People who did this were afraid of Tookie.

I cannot wait until the founder of the Crips dies at the hands of the California justice system. This convict has actually convinced people that if you write some children's books, that you can redeem yourself for a quadruple murder conviction. That doesn't say much for the state of conviction these days. So long as he fries, I can handle it.

It's not surprising that the Coalition of the Damned is up in arms about this clemency drama, and quite frankly I'm not surprised that Jamie Foxx and others have a screw loose in this matter. Clearly, they don't know what Crips are all about. I discussed this sorry SOB here and over at africanamerican.org a month or so ago, and it's amazing the amount of BS excuses go into trying to make the case for clemency. Take this one for example:

Never mind the fact that Blacks make up the majority of the prison population because White cops are 6 times more likely to arrest a Black or Latino than a White offender. And never mind the fact that the police purposely go looking for Black criminal offenders while ignoring White criminal offenders.
Never mind the fact that the police don't do stings on White gangs because they know if it got on the news, it would tarnish the false image that "White people don't do crime". Never mind all of that, that is not important.

What is important is that Blacks are criminal animals, and that's all there is to it.

Nevermind? How about nevermind the Crips. So let's inteject a little sanity. And I'm going to break a rule here and bring back a whole lot more from a site than I usually do because I want people to get a handle on what gang violence is like in LA County. As you read this try to remember that this is just about one particularly notorius set out of hundreds of streetgangs.

Rollin' 60s N-Hood Crip Seattle Mariners
Seattle Mariners Cap

Sub Sets: All 60s are NHCs, but there are the Avenues and the Overhills that are west of West Blvd. Allie(s): Their allies include Neighborhood Crip sets such as 67 NHC, 55 NHC, and 46 NHC.

Brief History:Their main rival would be the Eight Tray Gangster Crips to the east. This would be the most intense rivalry between any two gangs in all of Los Angeles County. This rivalry goes back to 1979 and was the beginning to Crip infighting. This rivalry is discussed in Monster Kody's book Autobiography of an LA Gang Member and Donald Bakeer's book, Crips. It would be great to see a truce between these 2 sets, because so many other rivalries would come up under it and many lives would possibly be saved. Thus far nearly 400 members of both sets have died in the last 20 years and that does not include the bystanders caught in the cross fire. Also keep in mind that many of the decedents expired as a result of non-gang related circumstances such as car accident, suicide, natural causes and conflicts outside gang membership.

Comments:The Rollin 60s made news headlines when Tiequan Andrew Cox (b. 1966), who had purchased fake cocaine, sought revenge against the dealer when he mistaken a neighbor's house as the drug dealers. He was convicted in 1986 for committing a quadruple murder that occurred in 1984. The victims were the wrong targets and were related to former NFL Rams wide receiver Kermit Alexander. Cox, while on death row stabbed Stanley "Tookie" Williams in 1988. This act is depicted in the 2004 film Redemption starring Jamie Foxx but many suggested that the incident didn't play out as it did on the silver screen.

In 2003 City Attorney filed a gang injunction against the Rollin 60s Crips and they had specified 31 men that were members of the 60s, but some have suggested that the 60s were being unfairly targeted and some mentioned that the injunction included individuals that had not had police contact in several years. Below are some published articles about the injunctions.

Their main Blood rival would be the Van Ness Gangsters (VNG) to the north. Since the 60s attend Crenshaw High School, north of Slauson, they often clash with the VNGs and becasue the VNGs are a smaller gang with less membership, the Rollin 60s have been able to dominate the school population even though the high school is outside their turf.

The Rollin 60s also started a conflict with the School Yard Crips during the 1980s. This is an unusual conflict because gangs often rival with neighboring or adjacent gangs. But the Rollin 60s would show their dominance by hanging out at the World-on-Wheels skating ring on Venice in the neighborhood of the School Yard Crips uncontested many times. Although there were several shootings committed by the School Yard Crips, the Rollin 60s, for the most part maintained their dominance for several years there.

Other rivals would include all Hoovers, especially the 83 Hoover and 74 Hoover and all Gangster Crips that are hooked up with the ETGs, such as the 53 Avalon Gangster Crips and 43 Gangster Crips. The 60s and all the "Owes" were allied during the 1980s but that is not the case today.

Tookie deserves to die. Plain and simple. If he's such a saint, let's hurry him on his way to his everlasting reward." by Cobb


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Heck, Tookie Williams was on trial for killing a Caucasian male, and a Chinese family. In the event the Black people he is responsible for killing are thrown into the equation, only a fool from Black community would forgive such a set of circumstances.
I know the sentiment may be met with disgust, but karma is amazing...

Stan Williams may not have committed the crimes he was sentenced for, but he certainly is directly & indirectly responsible for the loss of more than four lives.

No one is better for his death, but like Malcolm said: "...This is a case of the chickens coming home to roost..."
I'll be curious to see what his last words will be.
"I know the sentiment may be met with disgust, but karma is amazing...

Stan Williams may not have committed the crimes he was sentenced for, but he certainly is directly & indirectly responsible for the loss of more than four lives.

no one is better for his death, but like Malcolm said: "...This is a case of the chickens coming home to roost..."
I'll be curious to see what his last words will be."

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quote:
Originally posted by Fine:
Frown - Frown - Frown

A co-worker informed me last night, but I didn't follow up.

Thanks qty226 for the update Wink


Youre so very welcome... Smile

Im home today watching court TV........hearing these attorneys conversing about this situation..........i can only conclude, that this is a political move.



I hope we realize this.....
Kevin41
quote:
It was not about sympathy for tookie dumbazz...it was about turning the lives aropund of others at his convincing or request...but a negro who leads a hopeless depressed life wouldn't want anyone else to correct their lives...misery wants company....and it will get it too............


--yes Kevin41, misery loves company.

off but...

Carl Upchurch comes to mind. I have his book "Convicted in the Womb" -a great book and I saw the movie starring Omar Epps.

He actually brought the gangs together to talk. The result was--that year there were fewer gang-related incidents than ever before. He made a difference by orchastrating ["...the first national Gang Summit in Kansas City, Mo. in 1993.."] -- http://www.carlupchurch.org/ -- tfro

And he is a ["prime"] example of how a convicted felon can turn his own life around from inside out.

IMHO...
Yep Fine....self-hating negroes do not want to examine the facts of the matter.....I realize now why so many people are marginally educated....when presented with facts that contradict their personal beliefs...they turn the other way and choose to remain ignorant...now I see why amerikkka does not have the highest literacy rate..they want to remain dumb...just like their president...the poster boy for remedial thinking.......

City leaders rally against violence
PENDING EXECUTION CAUSES CONCERN OVER REACTION
By Jeremiah Marquez
Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - Wary of public anger over Stanley Tookie Williams' pending execution, local leaders on Friday called for peace if the Crips gang co-founder is put to death next week for four shotgun murders in Los Angeles County.

Authorities have received reports of possible plans to commit violence if Williams is denied clemency, calling the threats a ``credible concern.''

``What we picked up is enough to make us believe that there will be an attempt in some isolated places for violence,'' Robin Toma, executive director of the county's Commission on Human Relations, said at a news conference at City Hall.

Toma declined to provide further details, but said schools and various county areas could be targeted.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has yet to decide whether to grant Williams clemency in the 1979 murders. Williams, who is scheduled to die at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday by lethal injection at San Quentin State Prison, would be the 12th inmate executed since California reinstated the death penalty in 1977.

In Los Angeles, four City Council members urged calm in the next several days while asking local religious leaders to promote peace among their congregants and open their churches to those upset by the case.

Though community opinions about Williams vary, even a small group could provoke widespread civil unrest, said Councilman Bernard Parks. He alluded to the 1992 Los Angeles riots that followed the acquittal of white police officers in the beating of black motorist Rodney King.

``All you need is a few to disrupt the entire city,'' Parks said.

Councilman Herb Wesson implored Williams' supporters to follow his message of non-violence.

``Regardless of the governor's decision, we must not succumb to violence,'' Wesson said.

Despite the concerns, Los Angeles police have received no credible threats of possible violence, whatever the outcome of Williams' case, according to Lt. Paul Vernon, a department spokesman. Police have no plans to deploy more officers or step up security, he said.

``We don't want to unduly concern the community over unconfirmed rumors,'' he said.

Officers question the depth of Williams' support among local street gangs, Vernon added, saying the death row inmate had been unfamiliar previously to many younger generation gang members.

Sheriff Lee Baca had no immediate comment, said department spokesman Deputy Steve Suzuki.

Calls to Williams' representatives were not immediately returned.

Williams' backers say his teachings from prison -- through a series of books and talks by phone -- have persuaded many to avoid gangs. Many celebrities have joined his cause, saying he has redeemed himself on death row.

Williams, 51, was convicted of killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and Yee-Chin Lin, 43, in a robbery at a Los Angeles motel the family owned. Albert Owens, 26, a 7-Eleven clerk, was gunned down in a separate robbery in Whittier.

Last week, the California Supreme Court rejected a request to reopen Williams' case amid defense claims that he was connected to at least three of the killings by shoddy forensics.

The U.S. Supreme Court and other federal courts have ruled against Williams, whose 1981 death sentence would be commuted to life without parole should the governor approve clemency.
Transcript: The Debate on Clemency for Tookie Williams

Monday, December 12, 2005

The following is a transcript from "FOX News Sunday" on Dec. 11, 2005:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE FOXX, ACTOR: I don't know if a lot of people really understand what he has done. He wrote on pieces of toilet paper books for children to read to tell them not to do some of the things that he did in his life and end up where he was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MONAGHAN, PROSECUTOR: The murders were senseless. They were very brutal, and that Mr. Williams should pay the ultimate penalty for his crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, HOST: That's actor Jamie Foxx and Los Angeles prosecutor John Monaghan talking about a death penalty case that has provoked national debate. Stanley "Tookie" Williams is set to be executed at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday morning for the murder of four people back in 1979.

Williams was the co-founder of the notorious street gang The Crips. What's drawn celebrities and others to Williams' cause is the claim he's become a changed man in prison, speaking out against gangs. California Governor Schwarzenegger is considering whether to commute his sentence to life in prison.

For more on all this, we're joined now by Robert Martin, the prosecutor who put Williams behind bars, and advocate Bianca Jagger, who is one of the celebrities calling for clemency. They join us from Los Angeles.

And we want to thank both of you for coming in today. The clemency petition submitted By "Tookie" Williams' lawyers talks about redemption, rehabilitation. It says the following, and let's put it up on the screen, "This petition is not about the death penalty or about reversing the judgments of the courts. It asks in the name of so many who see this man as a symbol of hope and purpose in their own lives what message is sent by his death."

Mr. Martin, as the man who put "Tookie" Williams behind bars, what message do you think is sent by his death?

PROSECUTOR ROBERT MARTIN: Let me say at the outset, Chris, that I respect the opinion of those people who oppose the death penalty, and clemency is provided by the government for those exceptional and rare cases that are appropriate.

I don't believe that Stanley Williams qualifies on those grounds. He's non-repentant. He has committed multiple murders. Friends and acquaintances have come into the courtroom and testified that he bragged about the killings.

The people that he killed were "” it was senseless because to do the robberies, he didn't need to kill anybody. He's devastated the Yang family. He's devastated the Owens family. At the trial, documentary evidence of a mass murder escape plan was in his own handwriting.

He was tried by a racially mixed jury. He had excellent counsel in Joe Ingber and Steve...

WALLACE: Mr. Martin?

MARTIN: Yes.

WALLACE: Let me break in here just because, obviously, we can't...

MARTIN: Sure.

WALLACE: ... retry the case, and I think that you have made the point. So let me ask Ms. Jagger about this.

We know that "Tookie" Williams has written a series of books for children condemning gangs. He's spoken out against gang violence. But can that possibly outweigh the brutal murder of four innocent people?

"TOOKIE" WILLIAMS SUPPORTER, BIANCA JAGGER: Well, let me answer a few of the issues that Mr. Martin raised.

WALLACE: Well, I'd like you to answer my question.

JAGGER: Indeed, I think that clemency is there for people who "” exceptional cases, as Mr. Martin said, that have been able to redeem themself and rehabilitate themself and no longer pose a threat to society.

That is what is required from the governor when he decide whether somebody deserve to live or die and whether somebody deserve for him to grant clemency.

In addition to that, I would like to say that with respect to the other things that he said "” let's take the case of Mr. Martin, for example, who insisted in dismissing three of the jurors because they were black.

Furthermore, the California Supreme Court has reversed two of his cases, in the cases of People vs. Turner and People vs. Fuentes, because he engaged in inadmissible racial discrimination.

WALLACE: Well, let me "” Ms. Jagger, let me...

JAGGER: I would like to, in addition to...

WALLACE: No. Ms. Jagger...

JAGGER: And I would like to...

WALLACE: ... Let me interrupt, because I think that's...

JAGGER: Yes.

WALLACE: ... a fair point, but we have limited time. Let me briefly give Mr. Martin, you know, just a few seconds to respond to that.

If you will, sir.

MARTIN: Both of those are distortions. No court ever reversed on the basis of anything that I did. Both of those cases she mentioned "” the court said that the judge did not carry out the procedure he was supposed to carry out when any jurors are challenged.

And as far as dismissing jurors, the two black jurors, one was a schoolteacher who said she could not really be away for three months from her classrooms, and she would not be able to concentrate on the evidence. The other was a psychologist who said that he would pay more attention to psychological things than he would the evidence.

WALLACE: Let me bring in Ms. Jagger, if I can.

JAGGER: Chris, may I just...

WALLACE: No, Ms. Jagger, let me ask a question, will you? Let's talk about this question of redemption on the part of "Tookie" Williams. He has never admitted that he committed the crimes. He has never, therefore, apologized for them.

And perhaps even more important, he has never provided information to police, while he's been in prison, about The Crips gang and other murders that have been committed. Does that really indicate redemption?

JAGGER: Well, first, to address the issue of remorse and apologizing, Mr. Williams has maintained from the very beginning that he did not commit those crimes. I don't know if you know that there were not DNA evidence. There was no blood. The only basis on the way that they condemn him was because of an informant.

Now, there are questionable evidence about the shell of the "” the bullet shell, and they have always asked to have the opportunity to have photomicrograph, because the way it was determined at the time was not a scientific way.

In addition to that, I think that this whole idea that he did not provide evidence against The Crip is just the new evidence that they're finding in order to discredit him.

What more do you want from someone who has work, who has written nine books, who has been nominated five times for a Nobel peace prize, who has done everything to turn away young people from violence and from a life of crime and that look to seem as a role model? I mean...

WALLACE: Well, let me ask "” Ms. Jagger, let me ask Mr. Martin about that.

Is there anything that a convicted murder could do in prison, any sort of rehabilitation or good works, that would make you say you know what, it's a waste to execute him?

MARTIN: Chris, I think that on that topic, we have to say that there's been no remorse, no apologies to the families. He's taken no responsibility. The only thing he regrets are crimes that he's never been charged with.

In his own words, he had committed robberies and assaults in his own neighborhood, and went about gang banging. He said he regrets that. But that's a home free card. He's never been charged with that.

If he does not take responsibility for the four brutal murders that he committed, he can't begin to be rehabilitated, and we can't say that there's a moral equivalency between four brutal murders and co-authoring some children's books. I think society is not going to accept that.

WALLACE: Well, let me ask Ms. Jagger about that.

I mean, it gets, again, back to that. You've got some good works that he has committed in prison. On the other hand, I mean...

JAGGER: Well...

WALLACE: ... you talk about "” let me just finish if may, Ms. Jagger. You talk about four brutal murders. There was a young man who was shot in the back during a robbery at a 7-11, an elderly couple and their daughter who were running a motel. For a $100 robbery, they were killed. I mean, how can you compare the moral equivalency of one with the other?

JAGGER: Well, Mr. Wallace, you know that until now, more than a hundred people have walked away because they were wrongfully convicted. I do believe that Mr. Williams was wrongfully convicted and he should have been afforded the opportunity to be able to prove that he was not.

It is important perhaps that we read the dissenting statement made by some of the judges in the 9th Circuit and who themselves said at the end that they thought that he was deserving of a clemency from the governor. So there is so much...

WALLACE: But the fact is...

JAGGER: ... and so many reasons why Mr....

WALLACE: ... Ms. Jagger, that the California Supreme Court and the federal courts "” and you're quite right about that dissent, but it was a dissent from the majority opinion. The California Supreme Court and the federal courts have all turned down Mr. Williams' appeals.

JAGGER: Yes, but in the Ninth Circuit, you had nine judges who dissented against "” among the 11 judges. And in addition to that, I would like to say that Mr. Williams has rehabilitated himself, has redeem himself, and deserve to have a clemency from the governor.

I mean, if he's not an example of how someone can change their life, what do you need to do in order to become somebody better in the justice system?

And do you know, by the way, that the Senate "” the State Senate Commission has called for an investigation on the fair application of the death penalty. That will take two years. And the reason why they've done it is because they feel "” and this is a bipartisan commission "” that the application of the death penalty in California is not fair and leads to wrongful conviction.

WALLACE: But let me interrupt and just say, again, you know, your own clemency "” not your own, but "Tookie" Williams' clemency probe says this is not about the death penalty. It's about redemption. And let me, because we are running out of time, go back to...

JAGGER: It's about both.

WALLACE: ... let me go back to Mr. Martin for a final comment on this question of rehabilitation, redemption, versus punishment.

MARTIN: Yes. Let's agree that every single issue in this case has been examined with great scrutiny by every court in the land. No court has found that there's any difficulty with the evidence, and they have all affirmed his guilt.

Therefore, how can we possibly say that the defendant here, who still denies that he did these crimes, can be rehabilitated? The governor, I believe, will be looking at whether the evidence is ironclad, and since he is sworn to uphold the law, he's going to look at what the courts have said.

And I believe he's going to have to realize that we must have confidence in our court structure. Otherwise, we're a lawless society.

WALLACE: Mr. Martin, Ms. Jagger, we're going to have to leave it there. We know we could go on much longer. We want to thank you both for discussing the case with us. And as we've mentioned, Governor Schwarzenegger has to make a decision by 12:01 a.m. Tuesday morning.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
oh...if only the sorry house negroes would hold racist cops to task in the same manner when they shoot young kids in the back who are unarmed..or this president who lied and is causing young americans to get murdered daily...for nothing.......


-----------------------------------------------

You took the words right out of my mouth (post) . . . should George Bush get "curbed" for sending young people to die for no-bid contracts? Should racist and sadistic cops get "curbed" for murdering so many Black people in America. Should the governor of New Orleans and Fema officials get "curbed" for forcing so many people to die after hurricane Katrina?

Trying to get Black houseniggers to see the truth/big picture truthfully and realistically is like trying to get your children away from the Sun Yun Moon cult.
Now if this subject matter was about racist cops then a discussion of racists cops would be in order.

Since this topic is about the those for and against clemency for Tookie Williams, then it is business as usual....

...and it is certain that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to support the will of the People of the State of California, a will that calls for execution and not clemency for Tookie Williams.
Sorry, this will sound a little callous:

They can ice that fool tomorrow. I've given up on him, and I've given up on alot of America's so-called modern "Black leadership" as well for supporting this fool.


Hey, Je$$e Jackson, Al Shaprton and crew:
THERE ARE OTHER FUCKING AFRICAN-AMERICAN ISSUES OUT THERE! LIKE THE FACT THAT CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 IS UP FOR BEING REPEALED SOON, OR THE FACT THAT INSTIUTIONALIZED RACISM STILL EXISTS AND THE ORIGINAL CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH!! STOP WASTING TIME DEFENDING BLACK CRIMINALS AND SCORNED BLACK ACTORS!! ASSHOLES!
Not only did he kill 4 innocent people (and he called them "Buddhaheads" before he killed them), he has led to one of the most detrimental aspects of the Black Community today: GANG CULTURE.

He was a premier intenral architect of one of Black America's worst modern poisons, and he strained African-American - Asian-American relations (part of what went on during the LA Riots).

AND HE STILL DENIES HE DID ANYTHING.

I'm kinda still leaning towards neutral (because he has done some good, but I'd still say that his bad outweighs his good). Let's just say, if this fool gets iced, I won't shed a tear....
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
oh...if only the sorry house negroes would hold racist cops to task in the same manner when they shoot young kids in the back who are unarmed..or this president who lied and is causing young americans to get murdered daily...for nothing.......


I have no love for Mr. 'Tookie', but it is sad on what his life became, and how his death will be used as a political ploy for Arnold Schwarnegger. In the words of the late Richard Pryor, the American mainstream (read, white populace) is interested in justice, read= 'just-us'.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
oh...if only the sorry house negroes would hold racist cops to task in the same manner when they shoot young kids in the back who are unarmed..or this president who lied and is causing young americans to get murdered daily...for nothing.......


I have no love for Mr. 'Tookie', but it is sad on what his life became, and how his death will be used as a political ploy for Arnold Schwarnegger. In the words of the late Richard Pryor, the American mainstream (read, white populace) is interested in justice, read= 'just-us'.


Amen.

bang
So I was racking my brain trying to think about the title of the Jimmy Cagney movie where he plays a difiant gangster who is on death row and is hero worshipped by a gang known as the Dead End Kids.
the movie "Angels with Dirty Faces".

Perhaps Tookie should go out the way the Cagney character did to break the legend as a badass mofo.

"I don't wanna die! Oh please, please I don't wanna die!".
quote:
Originally posted by Michael:
Now if this subject matter was about racist cops then a discussion of racists cops would be in order.

Since this topic is about the those for and against clemency for Tookie Williams, then it is business as usual....

...and it is certain that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to support the will of the People of the State of California, a will that calls for execution and not clemency for Tookie Williams.


-----------------------------------------------

Michael,

The point being, that they all are the same; the same mentalities, yet, there is hatred for Tookie and no hatred for others who have done THE EXACT SAME THING that Tookie is accused of under the color of 'authority' - the only difference is that Tookie never had any color of 'authority' to hid behind to commit the crimes against fellow human beings and against humanity itself when he did it.

Also, as I have stated before, I don't believe in the death penalty at all, and as far as Tookie is concerned, I really don't believe he should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of his life, but killing killers solves nothing it only makes killers out of the ones killing killers.

Why pick and chose which cold blooded murderers to hate and put to death?
Now, I'm looking at the coverage on this case and... hmmm... contrary to all the indignation coming from the gallery, Tookie was convicted of killing a White guy and an Asian family or something to that effect.

I just find it rather ironic... in the "Is Black Life Worthless?" sense given how his very conviction and pending execution hinges on him killing not someone Black but someone White (and other non-Blacks).
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Now, I'm looking at the coverage on this case and... hmmm... contrary to all the indignation coming from the gallery, Tookie was convicted of killing a White guy and an Asian family or something to that effect.

I just find it rather ironic... in the "Is Black Life Worthless?" sense given how his very conviction and pending execution hinges on him killing not someone Black but someone White (and other non-Blacks).


I agree. That's one of the main reasons I'm against the Death Penalty.

However, in Tookie's case, I'm more neutral. He DID help create Gang Culture in the Black Community which is a major ongoing problem. For me, that alone is enough to make him lose my sympathy.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
Empty Purnata....

There are all types of Gangs, that DESTROY lives every day....and get away with it.

Political gangs, corporate gangs, etc etc.

To me, these Gangs are no better than the so called gang Tookie help to organize.


Quoted for truth.

I talk about how corrupt corporations and polticians are all the time (as CON-Feed constatly lambastes me about for daring to question the Status Quo lol).

Yes, I agree our goverment is worse. But internal corruption doesn't help either. These gangs act as the internal hand of destrution of the White Establishment.
yep..and an Asian chick gets probation for shooting a little black girl in the back of the head....some black people work to devalue themselves....because they do not see themselves as equal to whites....that is apparent from some of the so-called blacks in here...who want to hang blacks for passing gas....but will let a white man rape their mama and tell her to just lay back and enjoy it.......I see why I do not affiliate myself with some people, even though they are supposedly black.....I guess they mean in color only and definitely not mindset......I wonder if they'll put bush on trial for war crimes one day...many feel that it damn sure is warranted.......just like tookie's pending execution.....
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
yep..and an Asian chick gets probation for shooting a little black girl in the back of the head....some black people work to devalue themselves....because they do not see themselves as equal to whites....that is apparent from some of the so-called blacks in here...who want to hang blacks for passing gas....but will let a white man rape their mama and tell her to just lay back and enjoy it.......I see why I do not affiliate myself with some people, even though they are supposedly black.....I guess they mean in color only and definitely not mindset......I wonder if they'll put bush on trial for war crimes one day...many feel that it damn sure is warranted.......just like tookie's pending execution.....


I feel that if Tookie dies, so should Charles Manson.

Why I'm not exactly feeling Tookie's particular case (notice I'm only neutral about his case) is that he helped create one of the worst self-destructive behaviors in the Black Community today: Gang Culture.

IMHO, that's a way of helping the White Establishment destroy the Black Community within. IMHO, Gangsters are "sellouts". But, part of me is against him dying because of the good he does now for our children.
quote:
Originally posted by Fine:
Kevin41
quote:
now I see why amerikkka does not have the highest literacy rate..they want to remain dumb...


--Yes, it truly is a matter of choice. AmeriKKKa, especially blaq Amerika prefers 'not to know'.

quote:
just like their president...the poster boy for remedial thinking.......


lol -- lol -- lol

LMAO


I'd say that White Amerikkka is FAAAAR more ignorant than Black America.

Many African-Americans are ignorant out of self-entanglement (many of us are too wrapped up in our own problems to look at those of others). White Americans are ignorant because they don't want to know the truth outside of the RHETORIC and lies they have been told. It would tear their picture of reality apart.


Have you seen this commercial where a middle-class White woman who doesn't believe that AIDS is a major problem is exposed to it and has a painful epiphany? That's what the average White Amurikkkan would do if they were forced to look at reality, bury their face in their hands and shake their heads in disbelief like, "OMG, I've been lied to!"

Ignorance is bliss, especially if that ignorance keeps you on top of the throats of other people.



BTW, BEAUTIFUL NEW AVATAR! Smile
hotep

Well I've been sitting here looking at these Europeans rationalize this Tookie Williams situation. I dont believe people really understand the judicial process. All everyone is saying is he is a Co founder of the Crips street gang. But anyone who understands gang life knows all types of dealings go on on the lower and mid levels without the top guys ever knowing about it, But when it hits the fan everyone can identify Tookie Because he is the face of the gang. But i submit to you, what if he didnt actually do the crime. What i have come to realize from actually witnessing a Capital Murder Case myself is alot of what goes into a person being found innocent or guilty is the believeabilty of the witness versus the stigma and stereotyping of the defendent. This is a huge black man , head of one the roughest street gangs in America, when you put this in front of a 95% white jury , they automatically gonna say this man must have done it look at him. No hard evidence has been found. No gun, no blood, no photo of him at the scene, no finger prints, just someones TESTIMONY. Someone heard him laughing about it, heard him admit it, but no evidence. i mean whats wrong with life in prison, especially if he can save one life , isnt that worth it. But people want to play god, My question is who would volunteer to pull the switch.If you believe in higher being would you be comfortable killing another person in the name of justice sponsored by the state. In this case everyone loses, the Victims, their family,the countless number of people that has been affected by Tookies writings. But here we are at the last hours before a man is excuted by a country that has over 2 million prisoners, more people on death row than any other country in the world. Also to add a side note, who knows about the Iran Contra, or the Move in the 60's to flood the ghettos of Oakland and LA with dope, there is a bigger picture here and Tookie Williams is the scapegoat, the posterboy for thuglife and crime, when actuallity we live in a society the loves murder, drugs, corruption and mayhem. It doesnt suprise me though I'm from VA ive seen friends electricuted. I've also seen countless friends sentenced to life without parole , on the sole testimony of a so called Eye Witness. One case I witnessed a young man beat two murder trials, then after getting caught selling dope and robbing people testified that someone else hired him to kill his wife, and the jury convicted the man without one sread of evidence . This witness had tattoed the ladys name on his arm and openly admitted he would say anything to get out of jail. Even said I've gotten away with murder. Only reason they gave him the deal was because the brother who supposedly hired this young man to kill his wife was a Muslim in the Nation of Islam. So whomever talks about justice, just take sometime go down to the local courthouse and witness the atrocities that is carried out against black people and people of color everyday.
quote:
IMHO, that's a way of helping the White Establishment destroy the Black Community within.
How is it that you separate "Gang Culture" and the culture of oppression?

How is it that Gang Culture becomes a wholly independent actor as if it is self-created and not a product of American Society?

The fact that there were Gangsters and Gang Culture in other ethnic groups ought to be enough for anyone serious to take a more nuanced view. Just MHO.
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quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:


Hey, Je$$e Jackson, Al Shaprton and crew:
THERE ARE OTHER FUCKING AFRICAN-AMERICAN ISSUES OUT THERE! LIKE THE FACT THAT CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 IS UP FOR BEING REPEALED SOON, OR THE FACT THAT INSTIUTIONALIZED RACISM STILL EXISTS AND THE ORIGINAL CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH!! STOP WASTING TIME DEFENDING BLACK CRIMINALS AND SCORNED BLACK ACTORS!! ASSHOLES!


You are wise Empty Purnata.

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