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Unless an individual has an interest in serving a minimum of 20 years in Federal prison, or an interest in being sentenced to death, it would behoove the truly law abiding of Black America to stay clear of the subversives, such as any proven enemy of the United States of America. Should anyone doubt this read, "4 in U.S. Held as Members of Terrorist Cell", "Probe: Arrests are made in Oregon and Michigan. In other cases, a tearful Lindh says he's sorry, and a defiant 'shoe bomb' defendent says he isn't" by Josh Meyer, Time Staff Writer, Los Angeles Times, Saturday, October 5, 2002, Front Page. Because of a few individuals who are destined to align themselves with the Talibans or others who are responsible for terrorist activity, those who are associated with the Nation of Islam, any Islamic Mosque, will be stopped for questioning, harrassed, jailed, etc. A few U.S. citizens had the audacity to join the U.S. military specifically to use the training acquired against U.S. armed forces and/or U.S. citizens of the United States of America. I'm not worried at all, because I don't plan to now or ever in the future to be a part of such disloyal, treasonous activity.

Why any U.S. citizen of Black American heritage would align themselves with such foolishness is beyond me. Even today, Islamic territories in North Africa enslave, maim, or kill black people for the sport of it, and treat women, including their own women like the ground walked on under the heel of their shoes.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 05, 2002 at 09:30 PM.]
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Registration is required to access the articles in the LA Times online, but clearly you made your point.

I also cannot imagine anyone who so despises this country as to side with its enemies......

But there are kooks out there.....Sick and dangerous individuals and groups that get their kicks seeing America destroyed.....

Perhaps this sniper In Maryland, my home state, is one of them.

big grin big grin big grin
Hello Mr. Bankins,


"I also cannot imagine anyone who so despises this country as to side with its enemies......

But there are kooks out there.....Sick and dangerous individuals and groups that get their kicks seeing America destroyed.....

Perhaps this sniper In Maryland, my home state, is one of them." by Mr. Bankins


Well said. It is hoped that new evidence is found to catch and prosecute to the full extent of the law those responsible for such an atrocity. The two individuals reported as being responsible for the deaths of several others, are indeed very deranged or may be connected with a terrorist organization.

Although I have been unwarrantedly, and illegally confined behind bars, I was one of the truly innocent of Black America so confined. The court records, in Inglewood Municipal Court case #M82496 and the counter-action suit for redress prove my innocence. Caucasian America, specifically former Inglewood Police Chief J. R. Stroh, and other Inglewood police officers involved also know that I was indeed falsely accused and illegally incarcerated which blemished a previously spotless criminal history.

Should any U.S. citizen of Black American heritage or otherwise be unjustly fined and/or illegally incarcerated, it is better to be so violated as a truly innocent U.S. citizen rather than to be one who truly committed a criminal act. In essense, any individual or individuals violated without just cause by agents and officials of government hold a very strong position to seek redress for the wrongs of a government gone awry.

Those who truly commit the criminal offense have no avenue to even think about redress, let alone seeking it. I continue to post such information to in some way convince others to be righteous, to abide by the law, because there is strength in following and respecting the law and/or the property rights of others. Those who violate the law, or violate the rights of others more so than not face civil and/or criminal wrong doing, which warrant incarceration, a criminal history, and/or fines. With regard to a civil case, a lawsuit for damages can range from a few hundred dollars, to being sued for your worth, depending of the severity of wrongdoing.

Those who are in fact criminal do not have a fragment of a leg to stand on to defend themselves or seek restitution.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 06, 2002 at 06:45 PM.]
Hello Mr. ocatchings,

"I agree except....

There should be no jail time just a quick execution...
And this would include these nuts running around the States doing the same type of things (KKK, aryan nation, et. al.)" by Mr. ocathchings

With respect to the KKK, the aryan nation, the skin heads, any racist organization, an individual, a group of individuals, any business entity, and/or any agent or official of government that hold assets worth suing for, should in addition to criminal prosecution, be sued for civil damages. Generally those who hold assets refrain from committing serious civil or criminal act(s) to diminish freedom or assets. Should anyone doubt this, one only need to refer to the O.J. Simpson findings, where O.J. Simpson has been sued for his worth, to which O.J. will realize few of the millions of dollars lawfully earned during his gainful employment career. For the sake of survival, O. J. Simpson has to "duck and dodge" to make money that can't be traced by the government. It is common knowledge that any earnings that can be traced by the government can be garnished to pay off a civil claim.

In the deep south, the greatest deterent to "Jim Crowe" activity was neither marching nor civil protest, but rather the untiring effort of the few individuals of Black America who had the guts, the competent representation, the resources, and/or otherwise to stop the "David Dukes" cold in their tracks, by suing them where it hurts, namely civil lawsuit for monetary damages. There is not much talk about this avenue because as reality would have it, suing for redress is seldom televised, very personal, and private. Besides, it is to Caucasian America's, the skin heads, the aryan nation, the Hispanics, the Democrats, the Republicans, the Jews, the Gentiles, the Christian, the atheist, any business entity, any government authority, etc., advantage to keep the masses of Black America misinformed to minimize the threat of being sued for assets in instances where Black people are in fact the innocent party, and the others the perpetrators.

This is yet one more very important reason to be law abiding, because it is much more difficult, if not next to impossible for any proven criminal to seek redress when any plaintiff or defendant pursues redress, and/or attempts to clear his or her reputation for the civil and/or criminal wrong doing of others.

Very little respect or weight is given to anyone of proven criminal intent who attempts to tarnish the good name or reputation of any individual, a group of individuals, a business entity, a government agency, etc., who have yet to be proven criminal.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 06, 2002 at 07:06 PM.]
Good Morning Mr. ocatchings,

"Freedom of speech is one thing while treason is another. Hitting groups for hate crimes and stupidity in the pocket is great and I'm all for it. But for those individuals that want to fight against the country that they are living in....no sympathy" by Mr. ocatchings

Well said, and I'm in total agreement. It would be grand if these individuals who betray the country that they are living in, specifically the U.S., could be swiftly prosecuted and executed to save the taxpayers the expense of footing the bill for "due process" and/or incarcerating them, in the event the alleged traitors are proven guilty as charged.

But as we all know, within the court system of the United States of America, "due process", exhausting all legal appeals, the influence of sympathetic organizations that are opposed to the "Death Penalty", and the wheel of justice bring on results that are not expedient. It could be years before the final judgment is rendered to either incarcerate or execute these individuals.

In many other nations other than the U.S., treason can result in summary justice without the benefit of the first court trial, meaning swift for many years incarceration in a prison with very deplorable living conditions or swift execution. If this act of treason against the country lived in, were to occur in perhaps Mexico, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Haiti, Cuba, the Sudan, Ethiopia, China, North Korea, etc., there would be little haste in placing such an individual or set of individuals of treason under lock down for life or execution.

It is not good for the taxpayers of the U.S. that "due process" is U.S. Constitutionally mandated in any court matter of dispute, be it civil or criminal. The mandated right to a fair trial benefits the best interest of these individuals of treason whose actions of defiance occured in the U.S. In many other countries that use martial law over civil court proceedings, such activity would be addressed swiftly, the penalty being death, with no ifs, ands, or buts. In the light of this very serious set of circumstances these individuals of treason reap immense benefit, for in many other nations, other than the U.S., there would be no mercy shown for such activity, mercy as it pertains to a fair and impartial court trial.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 07, 2002 at 06:05 AM.]
to speak out or protest against US gov't policy is not treason, it's legal. Citizens should feel free to criticize the gov't. That is how positive changes such as the abolishment of slavery, the enfranchisement of women, and the rejection of taxation w/o representation get made

to be "truly law abiding citizens" is of course the right thing to do but it does not guarantee relief from police brutality,false arrest, incarceration, and execution.

"But for those individuals that want to fight against the country that they are living in....no sympathy."

to brand those who participate in protests, interest groups etc, as unpatriotic, treasonous, worthy of death, smacks of McCarthyism, no Hitlerism. This is supposed to be a democracy, not a military occupational gov't

[This message was edited by negrospiritual on October 13, 2002 at 08:41 AM.]
Hello Mr. negrospiritual,

"to speak out or protest against US gov't policy is not treason, it's legal. Citizens should feel free to criticize the gov't. That is how positive changes such as the abolishment of slavery, the enfranchisement of women, and the rejection of taxation w/o representation get made

to be "truly law abiding citizens" is of course the right thing to do but it does not guarantee relief from police brutality,false arrest, incarceration, and execution." by Mr. negrospiritual

No doubt, and I'm in full agreement with you. The very fact that U.S. citizens are free to exercise namely, rights as described in the "Bill of Rights" give any law abiding U.S. citizen the tools to keep government in check.

It would behoove a U.S. citizen to be law abiding, because should police brutality, false arrest, an unwarranted court fine, illegal incarceration, destruction of private property without just cause, assault with a deadly weapon, defamation of character, fraud, theft, any tort, unwarranted execution, etc., by any government official, private citizen, group of private citizens, business entity, etc., be evident then those who are law abiding have a very strong case or argument.

I will cite the altercation between Mr. Suge Knight, and Mr. Kenner, over large sums of money stolen from Black recording artists as one example. Although, Mr. Suge Knight received personal satisfaction in using "Street Justice" against Mr. Kenner and his associates, Mr. Kenner remained the victor. Mr. Kenner was the victor in three ways:

1. Mr. Suge Knight and the others involved from "Death Row Records" more than likely were sued for damages by Mr. Kenner and his associates for "assault and battery", the cost of medical expenses, any lost time to make a living that results from hospitalization, etc. Although not publicized, Suge Knight and others from "Death Row Records" were court ordered to pay restitution.

2. Suge Knight and others of "Death Row Records" damaged what rights existed to sue Mr. Kenner and his associates for "Fraud", "Theft", and/or other criminal or civil violations which could have been used to file claim against Mr. Kenner and his associates for damages.

3. Criminal acts of assault and battery with intent to injure Mr. Kenner and his associates resulted in criminal prosecution which landed Suge Knight and/or others in prison.

It sure pays to be law abiding. In the event any victim has a substantial legitimate claim for redress for criminal or civil wrongdoing against an individual, a group of individuals, a business, or a government agency, the chances of winning would be between slim and nill in the event the victim uses a criminal act to resolve the dispute through "Street Justice or otherwise".

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 13, 2002 at 04:53 PM.]
Negrospiritual,
I think we missed each other on this one.....

quote:
to brand those who participate in protests, interest groups etc, as unpatriotic, treasonous, worthy of death, smacks of McCarthyism, no Hitlerism. This is supposed to be a democracy, not a military occupational gov't



My answer concerned those that the topic originally addressed. The John Walkers, The bums from Oregon, The Timothy McVeighs at. al.

I have nothing against anyone with a better mouse trap or concerns about equality and as my favorite saying goes "if everyone is sitting around agreeing all the time, nothing is getting accomplished".

With that said, I am assuming that we did miss each other b/c I can not see you trying to convince me that the actions of "American citizens" taking up arms and other terrorist methods is "a form of free speach" or the way a democratic government is supposed to run.
I assume you would have had the Black Panther Party tried for treason and put to death? Out of curiosity, do you think a person who supports(donations, subscriptions, newsletters) a group like Al Quaida is a criminal? Or merely those who commit crimes in the name of Al Quaida?


M. Lofton

You cannot in good faith use Suge Knight's anecdotal situation to generalize every other civil/criminal proceding in the country. What you attempt to do is paint a picture that those falsely arrested, incarcerated, etc have somehow contributed to their own demise and that they have some control over the system which detains them.
Negrospiritual

Those that committed terrorist acts causing death or injury, yes; those that merely protested no problem.

quote:
do you think a person who supports(donations, subscriptions, newsletters) a group like Al Quaida is a criminal? Or merely those who commit crimes in the name of Al Quaida?


I know very little of any Islamic group and I will not pretend that I do. I hear arguements stating Islam is a peaceful religion and some say it preaches violence. Those that commit crime in the name of have to go....
I say that they should use the death penality on those traitors. But not just the death penality, a "quicker" death penality. The only problem I have with the death penality is that is takes too long. One convicted and sentenced to death can usually rest ashored that they are going to live for many years afterwards. After conviction, light'em up soon, so that the message is sent to the others like them that if they are caught, death is coming quickly.
Mr. Ocatchings,

"You cannot in good faith use Suge Knight's anecdotal situation to generalize every other civil/criminal proceding in the country. What you attempt to do is paint a picture that those falsely arrested, incarcerated, etc have somehow contributed to their own demise and that they have some control over the system which detains them." by Mr. ocatchings

True, and this was not meant to generalize but rather this was meant to be used as an example to prove that it would behoove one to first be law abiding in their actions before attempting to accuse another of civil or criminal wrongdoing.

It is definitely not in one's interest to commit a criminal act of violence or otherwise, when they indeed can prove that the opposing party is in fact the perpetrator and in very serious violation of the law.

Anyone, who takes the law into their own hands, through an act of violence, indeed contributes to their own demise. There are other avenues to bring light to such a situation, such as, filing a claim against the perpetrators, exercising freedom of the press, petitioning the grand jury or the elected officials of appropriate jurisdiction in the event the courts fail to act responsibly when any matter of merit comes before the court is quashed without legal basis. Elected officials, and a grand jury composed of other U.S. citizens, are both watchdogs over the court system when the courts disrespect the property rights of any law abiding citizen. The use of civil protest, filing a civil claim for redress in court, freedom of the press, petitioning an elected official for redress in the event the court system fails to be honorable, etc., does not equate to the use of physical force to resolve any violation of law relating to a civil or criminal impropriety. These are avenues yet to be used or explored in the community of Black America, which indeed are legal, and will bring about reform. Rioting, civil unrest, criminal activity, million person marches, have yet to be productive, in terms of moving the truly law abiding of Black America forward.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 14, 2002 at 12:02 PM.]
Correction to a previous post,

"M. Lofton

You cannot in good faith use Suge Knight's anecdotal situation to generalize every other civil/criminal proceding in the country. What you attempt to do is paint a picture that those falsely arrested, incarcerated, etc have somehow contributed to their own demise and that they have some control over the system which detains them." by Mr. negrospiritual
Ms. negrospiritual,

"is your assignation of the male gender to everyone

an attempt to apply respect or an attempt to apply patriarchy?

Simply Negrospiritual is adequate. It is not required to place "mr" before everyone's name. It is most often erroneous" by negrospiritual

No, but until it is shown otherwise I will continue to address many individuals as Mr., and so far, rather than your erroneous contention only a minute few have been labeled other than their gender. If the Mr. offended you, it was not intentional, at this moment I stand corrected. Besides, more so than not, those with feedback to the information as posted more so than not are of male gender, and out of mutual respect they have addressed me as Mr. On this note there is nothing wrong with using the gender label as long as the label is accurate.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 17, 2002 at 07:56 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Lofton:

it would behoove the truly law abiding of Black America to stay clear of the subversives, such as any proven enemy of the United States of America...[sic] those who are associated with the Nation of Islam, any Islamic Mosque, will be stopped for questioning, harrassed, jailed, etc



Haven't blacks been being stopped for questioning, harassed and jailed, etc??
negrospiritual,

"it would behoove the truly law abiding of Black America to stay clear of the subversives, such as any proven enemy of the United States of America...[sic] those who are associated with the Nation of Islam, any Islamic Mosque, will be stopped for questioning, harrassed, jailed, etc"

What is your point? There in nothing absurd or ...as you phrase it [sic] about the above expression. The expression above is very clear to those who have any regard for their own U.S. citizenship rights, personal freedom, etc. There is plenty of rope available for anyone to be as much of a fool as they want to be, as it pertains to anyone who aligns themself with any known subversive entity. Some individuals have already been stopped, jailed, harrassed, etc., because of their connection to an Islamic group.

There is nothing unusual about this. During World War II, after Pearl Harbor was bombed by Japan, many Japanese Americans were arrested, jailed, harrassed, had property taken from them, were forcefully moved off of their property by the military or police, etc., in the interest of controlling anyone presumed to be connected with a known enemy on U.S. soil. If history repeats itself, the same scenario can and will take place with anyone connected with any Arab state or Islamic group.

"Haven't blacks been being stopped for questioning, harassed and jailed, etc??" by negrospriritual

Black people have been harrassed, questioned, illegally fines, illegally jailed, etc. There are avenues to redress for those so harrassed, illegally fined, falsely accused, illegal jailed, etc.

However, should any U.S. citizen align themselves with any subversive organization, the arrest, the fine, the resulting jail time, a maiming, death at the hands of police officers or otherwise, will be truly earned.

In such an instance, those who chose to align themselves with any known enemy of the U.S. have no cause for redress. Don't expect any sympathy because the risks and penalties for taking such risks are very clear from the beginning. Make no mistake, the price for such activity will land the individual, or individuals concerned in federal prison, may result in execution, and/or justifiable killing by police officers or the military.

Some Black folks out there, including you, may think that this is all a joke, and those who do will end up being the brunt of the joke, meaning dead, or spending the rest of their days in the comfort of "Levensworth" should they think that after 9-11 life in the U.S., is just going to be business as usual.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 18, 2002 at 08:44 PM.]
negrospiritual,

"help me understand your point...
you seem to think Blacks might be in increased danger of aligning with subversives?" by negrospiritual

Not only Black people, but anyone else who chooses to align themselves with such an individual, group of individuals, organization, and/or group of organizations known or proven to be an enemy of the U.S.

The few Caucasians who have sided with the enemy have already been or will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. One example being John Walker Lindh, who broke down in tears in remorse to in some way plead for leniency. Make no mistake, in this situation there is no such animal, for the penalties are very stiff without regard to your ethnic heritage, and you can forget about plea bargaining. In these situations of treason, court decisions are decided upon in record time, with little prospect for an appeal, meaning a very speedy trial. So again, Black America use your head by thinking on your own, to save yourself, your families, your loved ones, etc., and not your "Bronze", because believe me, you don't want to go there, meaning facing an earned death or wearing prison stripes for the rest of your days.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Michael Lofton on October 18, 2002 at 09:23 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Lofton:

Not only Black people, but anyone else who chooses to align themselves with such an individual, group of individuals, organization, and/or group of organizations known or proven to be an enemy of the U.S.

The few Caucasians who have sided with the enemy have already been or will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


What is "Bronze"?

Are there large numbers of black people choosing to align themselves with Al QUAIDA and other such groups?

Have you heard conversations in which Black persons align themselves with terrorist organizations?

Isn't the KKK a terrorist organization?

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