Frown Frown Frown



Police: Man Made Child Help as He Cut Mother's Body

Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 2:12 pm
By: Woody Baird, Associated Press




MEMPHIS, Tenn. - A young girl who told police her father forced her to help as he cut up her mother's body with an electric saw said she could only look away when the head fell to the floor.

The girl is the chief witness against James Hawkins, 31, a prison parolee charged with first-degree murder in the death of Charlene Gaither, 28, a longtime companion with whom he had three children. His trial is scheduled for September and prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.

Police say Gaither was killed in February 2008 at the apartment she shared with Hawkins, their then 12-year-old daughter, Keyuna Thomas, and two boys, ages 9 and 11.

Keyuna, now 13, told police she saw Hawkins stab her mother in the neck with a knife and then strangle her after she threatened to call police during an argument.

The girl told police her father forced her to help as he cut up the body a day after the killing.



Hawkins denies killing Gaither, but police say he acknowledged dumping her body along a rural highway after severing her head, hands and feet.

"We hope to establish that he, in fact, gave no statement," said defense lawyer Larry Nance. "That's his position, that he didn't say that."

But prosecutors say Hawkins, who had filed a missing person report on Gaither, blurted out to police that he had disposed of her body.

"It was a voluntary statement, a spontaneous statement," assistant state prosecutor Patience Branham said.

Branham spoke Monday after a scheduled court hearing was postponed until May 22 on a defense petition to dismiss the alleged statement.

Hawkins, who is being held on a $4 million bond, has denied speaking with detectives about the killing.

Authorities say Gaither died on Feb. 9, 2008, about five months after Hawkins was paroled on a 15-year prison sentence for a string of robberies. His parole was set to end in December.

His daughter was four when Hawkins was convicted of armed robbery in 1999.

Hawkins reported Gaither missing Feb. 12 and her torso was found two days later in rural Mississippi, just south of Memphis. The severed body parts were not found, and the body was identified through DNA analysis.

The girl, now in the custody of her mother's family, said her younger brothers did not witness the slaying nor see their mother's body. But, she said, she was forced to help clean up the bloody scene and drag the body to a freezer where it was stored temporarily.

"I told my dad I didn't want to do this anymore," she told police. "He says, 'You want to die, too?'"

A psychiatric exam found Hawkins competent to stand trial.
 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
Original Post
OMG!

the trauma will be longlasting. I hope this child can learn to lead some semblance of a normal life. Even with counseling, this will always be with her.

dang! ek
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Pleeze lawd don't let it be a black man who did such crazyness

K


that should be a message board within itself! I was just reading about a black man who is a serial killer out in Los Angeles, California. The police are saying he murdered 30 elderly women. Couldn't believe it! But they've got DNA tied to the case. I still am having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Eek
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Pleeze lawd don't let it be a black man who did such crazyness

K


It was posted on BlackAmericaWeb.com, which pretty much only posts stories about African Americans. sck
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
OMG!

the trauma will be longlasting. I hope this child can learn to lead some semblance of a normal life. Even with counseling, this will always be with her.

dang! ek


My thoughts exactly.

She was only 12. Frown
I said it before and I will say it again…..black is the “new white”. Socialization and enculturation manifest through observation and emulation. It’s subconscious programming. We have assimilated into the Borg collective.

I am not for the death penalty….unless it gets to be administered by the loved ones of the victims…..through long grueling torture first. The death penalty issued at the hands of the government is an “easy out” from some of these heinous criminals. It’s not at all a deterrent. I doubt that this cat was thinking “I wonder if they are going to give me the death penalty…..I better not”, while it was going on? Doubt it.

We need to find ways to prevent this type of thing. We need a have more of a culture of shame in this society. As it stands now, nobody give a f'ck what anybody else thinks. It used to be a time when child molestors feared going to prison because they would be "marked" for the type of crime they did. Now....nobody give a f'ck. Its everbody for themselves. There is no shame! Freedom of individual expression...I guess.
fro This why I ALWAYS support the DEATH PENALTY. Who kills needs to be KILLED. Period. Of course it is an "unless" situation...but! No negotiation...the victim didn't get to negotiate whether he/she lives or dies. This is absolutely CRUEL and morbid behavior. Homeboy is MORE than crazy….and we DON'T need him around ANY. MORE! Just like the serial killer whose been employed for over 20 years in Los Angeles working for the STATE. He need to die over and over again..even if his first execution kills him. Pull up the mofo's body and kill him again. Don't feel sorry for MURDERS....Helllllllllll Nawlllllll!nono Not in the least.

fro
Jeez. This almost sounds like the beginning of the life story of Hannibal Lecter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Lecter

Except with him it was eating instead of cutting and it was done to his little sister instead of his mother. I really hope they can get psychological help for this child, they're gonna need it. That kind of extreme traumatic experience is what breeds future serial killers and sickos. Sadly this girl probably now has the potential to grow up to become a Jack the Ripper because of this experience. Frown
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

I am not for the death penalty….unless it gets to be administered by the loved ones of the victims…..through long grueling torture first. The death penalty issued at the hands of the government is an “easy out” from some of these heinous criminals. It’s not at all a deterrent. I doubt that this cat was thinking “I wonder if they are going to give me the death penalty…..I better not”, while it was going on? Doubt it.


I can definitely go for letting the victims get justice! tfro Although, with this kind of a monster, I'd gladly serve him up his cocktail myself!

As far as the "deterrent" argument goes ... the only people who still try to use it are usually those who are against the death penalty trying to convince those who support it of reasons why it doesn't work. But, the truth is .... no punishment is a 'deterrent' for any crime. The threat of a ticket doesn't stop people from speeding, or from not putting money in a parking meter. The possibility of going to jail doesn't make deadbeat dads pay their child support ... or stop kids from shoplifting ... or stop murderers from murdering. It's a moot and really ridiculous argument that I think EVERYBODY knows has no merit.

However ... although it will take entirely too long for this man to get his just rewards ... the thought of taxpayers dollars going to feed, clothe and care for him just makes me sick .. and ought to piss of ANYBODY who has to contribute to such a waste. sck

I would much rather that money go towards the years of therapy that this young child (and her siblings) will need to help them get over this traumatizing event ... because whose to say that she, or her family, will be able to afford it? And if not, she/they will go without ... as is the case of MANY Black people (especially the youth) who don't have the insurance or resources for such things even though they really need it.

This man WAS in jail ... and then got out. That doesn't need to happen EVER again!! nono
Originally posted by EbonyRose
quote:
I can definitely go for letting the victims get justice! tfro Although, with this kind of a monster, I'd gladly serve him up his cocktail myself!


fro That's what I'm talkin' 'bout Sista EbonyRose. Too many have gotten away without reaping the consequence of their due. Who are THEY who can KILL somebody[wheneva they feel like it]...and get off? I missed that memo!!! Those who DON'T see otherwise...have yet to lose a loved one. Trust me. That is THE most horrible/can't do a DAMN thang about it TIME in your LIFE! AND that's realFrown


fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

Those who DON'T see otherwise...have yet to lose a loved one.


This is simply not true. There are many people who have lost loved ones to murder and who do not support capitol punishment.
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:

This is simply not true. There are many people who have lost loved ones to murder and who do not support capitol punishment.


fro that's not what I said. I said "Those who DON'T see otherwise...have yet to lose a loved one." Maybe I should have said those you don't see otherwise have yet to lose a loved one by torturous horrific murder....and IF they STILL DO NOT support capitol punishment[after a loved one dies in this manner].....There's SOMETHING seriously wrong with 'em. And is their conscious they HAVE to live with everyday....not mine. Folks don't get to speak for other folks lives...in saying what is appropriate or not for death. If a person kills....he should be KILLED! No negiotiation. Period!

BTW: Why you care Roll Eyes Life is precious...and for those who think not...your loss.

In my view folks who do not support the death penalty has a cultural history of violence....and if paying for those past deaths be justified TODAY....we WOULD have one less continent of folks....and that's why you will find many OF THEM against the "death penalty." Don't believe me....look at their cultural legacy and what they have DONE violently to another group. And there's YOUR answer. Cuz in the deep south...there's a lot of innocent BLACK folks on death roll...been like that for YEARS! I ain't never heard not many advocacy for them!

error correction in boldRoll Eyes

fro
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

BTW: Why you care Roll Eyes Life is precious...and for those who think not...your loss.


Not everybody believes that the best way to demonstrate how precious life is is by killing people.

And merely disagreeing with you on this matter does not mean that there is "something seriously wrong" with them.
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:

Not everybody believes that the best way to demonstrate how precious life is is by killing people


fro That's cuz they're STILL alive.... Ask the murdered person how they feel....and what is appropriate to the person who TOOK their life. Thats the DEAL breakerRoll Eyes

quote:

And merely disagreeing with you on this matter does not mean that there is "something seriously wrong" with them.


Care less if you AGREE with me or not! Thankgod! I'm the LEADER in my life...and just cuz YOU[and others] ARE arrogantly NOT affected by MURDERING IDIOTS [in your world]...doesn't minimize our desire [those of us who are affected] to CONTINUE to support the DEATH penalty to the TENTH power with a couple square roots. And thankgod there are THOSE out in the world who FEEL the SAME as we do [to keep these MONSTERS OUT OF our community]...by KILLING THEM the way they KILLED. Works for me....and from where I stand...that's ALL that mattersRoll Eyes

fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

Ask the murdered person how they feel....and what is appropriate to the person who TOOK their life.


Why should we ask the murder victims when we have you here so ready and able to speak for them in their absense, presumably after your having consulted with them all reguarding their opinions in the matter?
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:

Why should we ask the murder victims when we have you here so ready and able to speak for them in their absense, presumably after your having consulted with them all reguarding their opinions in the matter?


fro That's what I'm talking about! It is apparent YOU HAVE not TRAVELLED this road[as is why you're talking from the SIDE of your neck..however]....I have! So you DO NOT know from what YOU speak...only what you think....and for all those who are STILL dying i.e. being murdered...WHAT YOU THINK...IS not GOOD enough!

fro
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

Those who DON'T see otherwise...have yet to lose a loved one.


This is simply not true. There are many people who have lost loved ones to murder and who do not support capitol punishment.


Yeah ... they're like the parents of some of the soldiers killed in Iraq who still supported both Bush and his decision to invade a sovereign nation who had not threatened the security of the United States ... in other words, for no reason whatsoever.

It makes me wonder if that's just some kind of stubborn ego/arrogance that won't let a person admit to a mistake or error in judgment .... or some other deeper psychological thing going on? 19
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:

Why should we ask the murder victims when we have you here so ready and able to speak for them in their absense, presumably after your having consulted with them all reguarding their opinions in the matter?


fro That's what I'm talking about! It is apparent YOU HAVE not TRAVELLED this road[as is why you're talking from the SIDE of your neck..however]....I have! So you DO NOT know from what YOU speak...only what you think....and for all those who are STILL dying i.e. being murdered...WHAT YOU THINK...IS not GOOD enough!

fro


And should I ever be murdered, at least I will die knowing that although my opinion is deemed worthless by you, you will be quite ready and willing to step in and replace it with your own opinion in your attempt to speak on my behalf.

Good thing that I have you looking out for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Pleeze lawd don't let it be a black man who did such crazyness

K


that should be a message board within itself! I was just reading about a black man who is a serial killer out in Los Angeles, California. The police are saying he murdered 30 elderly women. Couldn't believe it! But they've got DNA tied to the case. I still am having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Eek


Why we're human beings like anyone else. You think there are NO serial killers in Africa? They're are. Many of them are call General or some other "rank". Yes Black People can be serial killers too. This reminds me of the big Gay flap over the movie Fatal Instinct. The fact that you had a "lesbian" serial killer in the movie really pissed a lot of Gay people off.
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:

Many of them are call General or some other "rank".


Generals don't kill in series.

They kill in parallel.

Just sayin'.
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:
And should I ever be murdered, at least I will die knowing that although my opinion is deemed worthless by you, you will be quite ready and willing to step in and replace it with your own opinion in your attempt to speak on my behalf.

Good thing that I have you looking out for me.



fro Not you...sorry. I DON'T look out for whitefolk. Y'all do enough killin of your own to make things in your neck of the woods...quite even. Plus...well never mind. Let's just say...we will NEVER AGREE on this issue...and keep it that. Cuz I am NOT gonna debate with you. I've already posted my position. You just wanna keep talkin.....

fro
quote:
Originally posted by joeodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Pleeze lawd don't let it be a black man who did such crazyness

K


that should be a message board within itself! I was just reading about a black man who is a serial killer out in Los Angeles, California. The police are saying he murdered 30 elderly women. Couldn't believe it! But they've got DNA tied to the case. I still am having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Eek


Why we're human beings like anyone else. You think there are NO serial killers in Africa? They're are. Many of them are call General or some other "rank". Yes Black People can be serial killers too. This reminds me of the big Gay flap over the movie Fatal Instinct. The fact that you had a "lesbian" serial killer in the movie really pissed a lot of Gay people off.



a serial killer and a mass murderer are not the same thing. Further, white serial killers occur many times more frequently than black serial killers. Profiling is based on the history of dastardly deeds performed by countless deranged lone white males in their 30's. However, this thread isn't about a serial killer.
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by Ricardomath
quote:
And should I ever be murdered, at least I will die knowing that although my opinion is deemed worthless by you, you will be quite ready and willing to step in and replace it with your own opinion in your attempt to speak on my behalf.

Good thing that I have you looking out for me.



fro Not you...sorry. I DON'T look out for whitefolk. Y'all do enough killin of your own to make things in your neck of the woods...quite even. Plus...well never mind. Let's just say...we will NEVER AGREE on this issue...and keep it that. Cuz I am NOT gonna debate with you. I've already posted my position. You just wanna keep talkin.....

fro


LOL you realize that this statement invalidates any arguments you make about Racism, right? Probably not.........never mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

I've already posted my position.


Well, had you presented it as simply your opinion, this discussion would have been finished quite a few posts ago.

But you presented your own opinion as the opinions of murder victims who have no means of defending themselves against being used like that. That's something different. They may or may not have agreed with you, if they had the chance to speak out.

My opinion is my own.

Your opinion is your own.

And the opinion of somebody who is murdered is his or her own.

We ought not confuse them.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

Those who DON'T see otherwise...have yet to lose a loved one.


This is simply not true. There are many people who have lost loved ones to murder and who do not support capitol punishment.


Yeah ... they're like the parents of some of the soldiers killed in Iraq who still supported both Bush and his decision to invade a sovereign nation who had not threatened the security of the United States ... in other words, for no reason whatsoever.


I believe that Bush supports Capitol Punishment. So your attempt to slur the families of murder victims by tying them in with Bush simply because they might disagree with you is quite dishonest.
Last edited {1}
sometimes it's positive that majority vote doesn't have an impact when it comes to important decisions. At the moment it looks like that even the US is heading towards the abolition of death penalty, regardless how emotional citizens may be.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:

the US is heading towards the abolition of death penalty, regardless how emotional citizens may be.



that was unfair Listener. If ever there was an appropriate case for the death penalty, this is it. Why try to dismiss the severe damage done in these circumstances by branding the reactions to this horror as merely "emotional"?
quote:
If ever there was an appropriate case for the death penalty, this is it. Why try to dismiss the severe damage done in these circumstances by branding the reactions to this horror as merely "emotional"?

tell me please, what is your personal gain that somebody is sentenced to death instead of being sentenced to life without parole.
Why doesn't the executioner commit murder? If we assume that killing somebody who committed murder is correct, why is 'vigilante justice' considered a crime? Why should anybody be in favor that a government can sentence it's citizens to death?
It is one thing to desire the death of somebody else out of a feeling, it is something very different to demand this to be law.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
If ever there was an appropriate case for the death penalty, this is it. Why try to dismiss the severe damage done in these circumstances by branding the reactions to this horror as merely "emotional"?

tell me please, what is your personal gain that somebody is sentenced to death instead of being sentenced to life without parole.
Why doesn't the executioner commit murder? If we assume that killing somebody who committed murder is correct, why is 'vigilante justice' considered a crime? Why should anybody be in favor that a government can sentence it's citizens to death?
It is one thing to desire the death of somebody else out of a feeling, it is something very different to demand this to be law.


And, imo, your reaction (to the death penalty) is JUST AS EMOTIONAL as those who support the death penalty. IMO, it's just as wrong to minimize other people who have lost loved ones via a violent act (murder) and support the death penalty, as it is to point a finger as if somehow 'your view' is superior or 'right' or more 'moral'.
but one thing is correct I think, regardless which topic, people won't change their minds and many discussions are a waste of time.
Therefore, thank you Fabulous for reminding me of that, I will withdraw from such discussions, with the knowledge that one day the US will abolish death penalty.
quote:
Care less if you AGREE with me or not! Thankgod! I'm the LEADER in my life...and just cuz YOU[and others] ARE arrogantly NOT affected by MURDERING IDIOTS [in your world]...doesn't minimize our desire [those of us who are affected] to CONTINUE to support the DEATH penalty to the TENTH power with a couple square roots. And thankgod there are THOSE out in the world who FEEL the SAME as we do [to keep these MONSTERS OUT OF our community]...by KILLING THEM the way they KILLED. Works for me....and from where I stand...that's ALL that matters


Well said........
quote:
And, imo, your reaction (to the death penalty) is JUST AS EMOTIONAL as those who support the death penalty. IMO, it's just as wrong to minimize other people who have lost loved ones via a violent act (murder) and support the death penalty, as it is to point a finger as if somehow 'your view' is superior or 'right' or more 'moral'.


Excellent point........
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
facts against the death penalty are emotional?


Your 'reaction' to the death penalty is emotional....

you know...

just like those who 'support' the penalty are 'emotional' (according to you) ...

I'm just saying so are you. YOU are reacting 'emotional' regarding this issue, too.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
but one thing is correct I think, regardless which topic, people won't change their minds and many discussions are a waste of time.
Therefore, thank you Fabulous for reminding me of that, I will withdraw from such discussions, with the knowledge that one day the US will abolish death penalty.


I disagree with you, people DO change their minds (sometimes) depending on the topic and depending on whether or not there's GOOD REASON to change their position.

That said.... if you feel 'discussion' is such a waste a time (when folk disagree with you), why visit a discussion board...where the sole purpose is DISCUSSION?

Hmmmmmmmm..... Confused

Nevertheless, in THIS INSTANCE.... hopefully the US will NOT abolish the death penalty for those deserving of it (like, for example, the man in the original article/thread topic).

IMHO, he should be put to death, ASAP! I don't see why taxpayers should have to foot the bill of maintaining his life.
quote:
That said.... if you feel 'discussion' is such a waste a time (when folk disagree with you), why visit a discussion board...where the sole purpose is DISCUSSION?

I said 'many' not 'all' and it is not about agreement or not, certain political issues won't change or end by discussing/talking about it.
quote:
IMHO, he should be put to death, ASAP! I don't see why taxpayers should have to foot the bill of maintaining his life.

this is now the reason, why some states consider to abolish death penalty, it's just too expensive, more expensive than life. But enough said
Its not just the fact that he murdered the poor women but to make the child help cut up the body. I don't care about whether people like my opinion or not but I would have no problem in throwing the switch on that pile of dog crap.
Noah..I understand what you mean about the new socialization...learned behavior 101....but the rest of this thread sound as sadistic as the whites who were calling for the head of the black man in Houston that ran the car into the water and drowned several children...while remaining mum on icidents like Susan smith deliberately driving the car into the water...but just reading some of the replies in here proves your point....blacks are the new whites indeed...incarceration is not enough nowadays....the line between how blacks and whites think narrows daily.. "sigh"....
quote:
this is now the reason, why some states consider to abolish death penalty, it's just too expensive, more expensive than life. But enough said


And the reason it is so expensive is because of people like you who tie up the courts with injunctions, legal challenges and a never ending Tsunami of stay of executions. You do realize this don't you....?

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