THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN!

WHEN YOU GO IN THE JOINT YOU PICK THE MEANEST TOUGHEST SOB AND YOU BUST HIM IN THE EYE TO GAIN RESPECT. WHO WANTS THEY ASS KICKED NOW?

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
I'm here to set the record straight and to point you wayward liberals in the right direction.

Be afraid. Be very afraid!

Well, that's quite an entrance.

I look forward to being enlightened. And I hope you represent better than some of the others.

But before you begin, and as a pre-emptive measure, if you are going to make a statement of fact, don't run when someone asks you to cite to the evidence of the fact. And, don't run when the "evidence" is demonstrated to be spin. It get's boring when Cons cut and paste talking points from right-wing blogs, but fail to support these talking points with facts.

Further, don't create strawman arguments or re-interpret statements so you can gloriously destroy them; everyone here is pretty good at saying what we mean.

Lastly, and probably most importantly, since this is a Black-interested community, it is not enough for you to say, "Liberalism/Progressivism is bad for the Black community; you must say WHY CONSERVATIVISM IS GOOD for the Black community.

With that

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
But before you begin, and as a pre-emptive measure, if you are going to make a statement of fact, don't run when someone asks you to cite to the evidence of the fact. And, don't run when the "evidence" is demonstrated to be spin. It get's boring when Cons cut and paste talking points from right-wing blogs, but fail to support these talking points with facts.

Further, don't create strawman arguments or re-interpret statements so you can gloriously destroy them; everyone here is pretty good at saying what we mean.

Lastly, and probably most importantly, since this is a Black-interested community, it is not enough for you to say, "Liberalism/Progressivism is bad for the Black community; you must say WHY CONSERVATIVISM IS GOOD for the Black community.

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Lastly, and probably most importantly, since this is a Black-interested community, it is not enough for you to say, "Liberalism/Progressivism is bad for the Black community; you must say WHY CONSERVATIVISM IS GOOD for the Black community.

I haven't even brought the fire and the liberals are cowering already? Trying to create rules and ensure that they don't get "bruised". Well, I appreciate the respect.

Conservatism is good because it sure beats the hell out of anything else. What other ideology allows man to rape, pillage, exploit, steal, etc., etc. all in the name of blatant self-interest. I want more. Conservatism allows me to get more.

Any questions?

Let me be less flippant in my answer about conservatism. It is human nature to want more. It is also true, in my opinion, that the world is a zero sum place. Either I get mine or someone else gets it. My worldview is dominated by this paradigm. I have no allies. I have no sponsors. It's me against the world and either I get mine or I don't. No one will give me a thing.

I organize my thinking and efforts around how to swim with the waves, as opposed to against them. Conservatism, for me, is a rather pragmatic approach to survival in America. It is strategically expedient for me to be conservative and so I am.

To be truthful, I could care less about fidelity to any particular conservative principles or tenets or heros. I'm all about putting food on my table - and the more the better. In that spirit, conservatism is the tool for me to do that.

I don't believe that black people can have the luxury of thinking about race or group or class struggle in America. There are snipers all around us. At every opportunity the white man, society, capitalism, racism, classism, etc. are out to snuff us out. Plus, there are spies amongst us and black folks who will undercut us and impede our progress. A nigger can smile in your face and talk about "brother" while sinking a knife in me just like a white man can.

So, I'm on my own. Conservatism supports me in my effort to create progress for me. I would love to be able to worry about "my people". I can't.

Kweli4Real, have I broken any rules yet?

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
It is human nature to want more. It is also true, in my opinion, that the world is a zero sum place. Either I get mine or someone else gets it. My worldview is dominated by this paradigm. I have no allies. I have no sponsors. It's me against the world and either I get mine or I don't. No one will give me a thing.

And a conservative achieves his or her success having received assistance from no one??? That's a joke. Your worldview not only goes against common sense, it's unnatural. From the time you were born my friend, your well-being depended on someone other than yourself. In fact, any society that calls itself a civilization operates on the basic principles of community effort. Anyone who as ever claimed success always credits others for helping them along the way. I suggests you adopt a more realistic worldview.

quote:

Originally posted by Rowe:

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
It is human nature to want more. It is also true, in my opinion, that the world is a zero sum place. Either I get mine or someone else gets it. My worldview is dominated by this paradigm. I have no allies. I have no sponsors. It's me against the world and either I get mine or I don't. No one will give me a thing.

And a conservative achieves his or her success having received assistance from no one??? That's a joke. Your worldview not only goes against common sense, it's unnatural. From the time you were born my friend, your well-being depended on someone other than yourself. In fact, any society that calls itself a civilization operates on the basic principles of community effort. Anyone who as ever claimed success always credits others for helping them along the way. I suggests you adopt a more realistic worldview.

OK - Kweli4Real had some rules. Here are mine. I am probably not your run of the mill conservative. Please try not to label me with the standard conservative rhetoric, cause I probably don't embrace it. As I mentioned, I could care less about most traditional conservative principles or heros. For me, conservatism is a pragmatic approach to life. There is nothing romantic about my conservatism.

All that said, I have certainly gotten extraordinary help in my life. The vast majority of that help, however, has been from my family and loved ones. They have given me great gifts, not the least of which is academic training, a sense of morality and commitment to my familiy as the preeminent focal point of my life.

I believe that people get help. I believe that conservatives get help. I just don't believe that I have the luxury of counting on that to achieve my personal and family objectives. If I get it, it's like finding "lost" money in my pocket. I really appreciate it and and am truly grateful. I just fight and scratch through life like I'm alone in the desert.

quote:

Kweli4Real, have I broken any rules yet?

Your doing just fine.

quote:

What other ideology allows man to rape, pillage, exploit, steal, etc., etc. all in the name of blatant self-interest. I want more. Conservatism allows me to get more.

I can appreciate that bit of honesty. Actually, it's quite refreshing to have a self-profressed con [I didn't see where you professed being Black] to spell out that that the attraction has nothing to do with what is best for the Black community, or even community for that matter; but rather, it is firmly rooted in individualism and self-interest.

quote:

It is human nature to want more.

I agree; but as a progressive, I believe that the higher human nature is supportive of the concept of community, i.e., Providing for the least of us, who but by accident of birth or twist of fortune, might have been us.

See I don't believe that the world is a zero-sum game, because I don't believe that the purpose of life is attainment. Mind you, my being progressive doesn't stop me from going for mine; it merely keeps me mindful that there are others in this world with whom I live. So my success is/should not be predicated on someone else's failure.

quote:

My worldview is dominated by this paradigm. I have no allies. I have no sponsors. It's me against the world and either I get mine or I don't. No one will give me a thing.

With all respect, I see that as an empty, stress-inducing and dare I say, lonely paradigm. But that said, the "No one will give me a thing" thing is simply not true. To say the least, your entire existence is built on the gifts, i.e., blood, sweat and tears, of those that came before you. Your individualistic approach dishonors their spirit.

quote:

It is strategically expedient for me to be conservative and so I am ... To be truthful, I could care less about fidelity to any particular conservative principles or tenets or heros.

Okay, but I would argue, again with all due respect, that approach that is intellectual dishonest, at best, and could be completely cowardly, if not, immoral depending on how far you are willing to extend your unwillingness to take a stand.

quote:

So, I'm on my own. Conservatism supports me in my effort to create progress for me. I would love to be able to worry about "my people". I can't

I'm sure you have heard the expression, "No man is an island." You can be concerned and actually do something for "[your] people", you just choose not to. I would suggest that just as it is human nature to "want more", it is also human nature to be a part of something larger than him/her-self.

My problem with conservativism is that it is all about limiting the access others have to want they need. It is as MBM states: all about using public funds to promote private interests.

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
WHEN YOU GO IN THE JOINT YOU PICK THE MEANEST TOUGHEST SOB AND YOU BUST HIM IN THE EYE TO GAIN RESPECT. WHO WANTS THEY ASS KICKED NOW?

-----------------------------------------------

Now, I think that would be Nmaginate and Kevin41 . . .

(But an intelligent brother knows that when you do find yourself in the 'joint' the first lesson you learn is to keep your mouth closed, mind your own business, and never call anyone out; a big mouuth and selling wolf tickets is usually a dead give away of a go for bad wannabee front.

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Actually, it's quite refreshing to have a self-profressed con [I didn't see where you professed being Black] to spell out that that the attraction has nothing to do with what is best for the Black community, or even community for that matter; but rather, it is firmly rooted in individualism and self-interest.

Well, I believe that it is in the black community's best interests to adopt a conservative approach to achievement in America. First, I believe that the community's interests can be best served by focusing on the 'care and feeding' of the family. Doing that takes care of the community by definition. Second, I think that the world we live in allows for us to achieve more on an individual/family basis by conservative politics.

quote:

I agree; but as a progressive, I believe that the higher human nature is supportive of the concept of community, i.e., Providing for the least of us, who but by accident of birth or twist of fortune, might have been us.

I believe in a zero sum world. We're all out to get ours. I wish this were not the case, but it is and I can't change it. Practically, I believe in everyone's equal access to "getting theirs". Let's just throw the marbles out there and let each of us compete for them as best we can.

quote:

See I don't believe that the world is a zero-sum game, because I don't believe that the purpose of life is attainment.

Well, honestly, I don't feel I have the luxury to be so high minded. I'm much more focused on putting food on the table. My ideas thoughts about the "purpose" of life don't feed the kids.

quote:

Mind you, my being progressive doesn't stop me from going for mine; it merely keeps me mindful that there are others in this world with whom I live.

Sounds like we aren't so different.

quote:

So my success is/should not be predicated on someone else's failure.

Perhaps we're quibbling over nuance here, but I don't necessarily believe that I succeed at another's peril. I just believe that there are a finite number of marbles out there and either I get as many as I can for me and my family, or someone else will.

Again, this may not be very romantic or esthetic, but I think it is pragmatic.

quote:

With all respect, I see that as an empty, stress-inducing and dare I say, lonely paradigm.

Perhaps, but that being said, who will come to your aid - outside your family and friends perhaps - in times of trial? Beyond that, is it better to live thinking there is no safety net and to always be prepared or to believe that is one there and to be disappointed someday?

quote:

Your individualistic approach dishonors their spirit.

In one of my posts I spoke of the family "shoulders" that I stand on. If humanity were made up solely of those who considered my interests like my family then I, no doubt, would think differently. Unfortunately, reality tells me otherwise and demands that I respect that context.

quote:

quote:

It is strategically expedient for me to be conservative and so I am ... To be truthful, I could care less about fidelity to any particular conservative principles or tenets or heros.

Okay, but I would argue, again with all due respect, that approach that is intellectual dishonest, at best, and could be completely cowardly, if not, immoral depending on how far you are willing to extend your unwillingness to take a stand.

What is intellectually dishonest about looking for the best toool for the job at hand? I have done so and conservatism, for me, yields the greatest return. You, no doubt, have had a different life experience and therefore have a different worldview. Is it "intellectually dishonest" of you to think that you have the ability to save the masses at every turn? What has the philosophy done for the world so far?

Unwilling to take a stand? What am I doing here? I have rather clearly stated that I believe that conservative politics best serves me and would best serve black people generally.

quote:

I'm sure you have heard the expression, "No man is an island." You can be concerned and actually do something for "[your] people", you just choose not to.

Sir, you imply that nothing conservative can be productive for black people. That's just ignorant and close minded. I believe that the "black community" can be best served by focsuing on black individuals and the black family. You know the black community is nothing but the sum of all black people!

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
I'm here to set the record straight and to point you wayward liberals in the right direction.

Be afraid. Be very afraid!

WHO IS THIS JOKER?

Ditto on what Kweli and Rowe said!



What annoys me the most about this new character is how he takes up so much damn space with this monkier. What an annoying-ass handle!

He's already turning out to be an as*hole. I wonder if this is Cobb or CF under a different user name.....

quote:

I wonder if this is Cobb or CF under a different user name.....

I was thinking more like MBM. Someone doing it for shits and Devil's Advocates giggles. But, even though MBM fancied himself as a "conservative" once upon a time (LOL)... I'm reserving my judgement. But I can't hold back my laughter!!

Hell...I'm waiting for him to say something that I can respond to. Does this individual claim to be black? So far he reminds me of the Wizard of OZ....sounds like a big booming ass presence but when you take a close look....it is just a little dwarf with a powerful azz microphone........so Mr. Long-Name, are you black and what is your stance on affirmative action....i figure that is a fairly decent litmus test....that seems to rile most blkCONS.........

Well let the games begin!

BTW this is not a prison it just has some who are prisoners of their own ideology.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
...so Mr. Long-Name, are you black and what is your stance on affirmative action....i figure that is a fairly decent litmus test....that seems to rile most blkCONS.........

I support affirmative action because it has helped and is helping black people. My conservatism is about using the right tool for the right problem. Affirmative action has been something that I'm pretty sure I have taken advantage of. I have no resaon to oppose it.

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:

So, I'm on my own. Conservatism supports me in my effort to create progress for me. I would love to be able to worry about "my people". I can't.

Why even bother engaging a person who openly admits he has no convern for Black folk and is only out for what is best for himself or herself. It would be foolish to debate such a person, at least the sick Negroes Like CF claim to care about Black folk...

Yeah...pretty ironic that he admits to benfitting from AA...which I have also....because credentials for some means nothing in a racist azz country unless it is forced by law....but being that those rights and many others were gained through efforts by the collective...how can one benefit from the collective efforts of others and then think individualistic.....kinda hypocritical don'tcha think?

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
Yeah...pretty ironic that he admits to benfitting from AA...which I have also....because credentials for some means nothing in a racist azz country unless it is forced by law....but being that those rights and many others were gained through efforts by the collective...how can one benefit from the collective efforts of others and then think individualistic.....kinda hypocritical don'tcha think?

Yep, it is very hypocritical.

I have to say, I don't know about all Conservatives, but from what I've seen, this seems to be the attitude of most Conservatives: "I'm out for me, I wish I could worry about the other guy, but I can't/won't" (same thing with Libertarians, well, they claim to represent an ideology that allows everyone to be this way and not need help from anyone).

This is one of the main reasons I am not a Conservative, I don't believe in "rugged individualism", and I believe it is an unrealistic philosophy. I believe that the Black Community is a far more communal society than White American society (I view "rugged individualism" as a "Western" [White] philosophy), which tends to lead more more towards socialism/progressivism.

In this country, we need to be concerned for self (individualism), but we also need to place communal concern (collectivism) as equally as important as self-concern. And in all actually, I believe White people should do the same.

Yep EP...My point exactly...thankz to the collective effort of black people I am at a point in my young life that most black men or white could have dreamed of...and hopefully it'll get better...and yeah I know all that jazz about self-reliance and hard work but none of that would have not meant schit if the opportunities would have not been there for me in the first place.....and to benefit in life because others got their azzes kicked and not care about those behind me in some form or fashion would make me out to be a piece of shit human being......a selfish piece at that.......to me I am OBLIGATED to return at least some of the favors to someone else...so they may do likewise for others...and on...and on......it does not take a rocket scientist to see the appropriate nature of that way of thinking............

quote:

Originally posted by Nmaginate:

quote:

I wonder if this is Cobb or CF under a different user name.....

I was thinking more like MBM. Someone doing it for shits and Devil's Advocates giggles. But, even though MBM fancied himself as a "conservative" once upon a time (LOL)... I'm reserving my judgement. But I can't hold back my laughter!!

Personally, I thought it was Kevin41, until I saw his replies! I still think it's an existing member playing around. Hmmmmm....

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
Yep EP...My point exactly...thankz to the collective effort of black people I am at a point in my young life that most black men or white could have dreamed of...and hopefully it'll get better...and yeah I know all that jazz about self-reliance and hard work but none of that would have not meant schit if the opportunities would have not been there for me in the first place.....and to benefit in life because others got their azzes kicked and not care about those behind me in some form or fashion would make me out to be a piece of shit human being......a selfish piece at that.......to me I am OBLIGATED to return at least some of the favors to someone else...so they may do likewise for others...and on...and on......it does not take a rocket scientist to see the appropriate nature of that way of thinking............

Amen!

The last thing our community needs is selfishism and a "Me first" attitude. Some Black people seem to think it is necessary to take on that type of attitude to compete with White America simply because alot of White people have taken on that attitude, but I disagree.

The "Me first" attitude is a fool's path to destruction. It creates a society of selfish people with no concern about anyone outside of Number 1. It eventually leads to mass corruption and creates a small class of oligarchs who drain the economy bone-dry and bankrupt society. That was the downfall of Rome, and it will be the downfall of White America.

MARK MY WORDS.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:

how can one benefit from the collective efforts of others and then think individualistic.....kinda hypocritical don'tcha think?

What "collective efforts" are you talking about? The efforts of bureacracy to enforce and administer it? Or do you refer to the general civil rights effort?

Seems just as hypocritical that liberals love affirmative action when it was put in place by an arch conservative.

quote:

VOX:
Personally, I thought it was Kevin41, until I saw his replies! I still think it's an existing member playing around. Hmmmmm....

It doesn't even matter and there's not much to engage here but this was pretty cute:

quote:

I am probably not your run of the mill conservative. Please try not to label me with the standard conservative rhetoric, cause I probably don't embrace it.

Hmmm... IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT kinda like self-labeling, don't ya think?

quote:

Originally posted by Empty Purnata:

This is one of the main reasons I am not a Conservative, I don't believe in "rugged individualism", and I believe it is an unrealistic philosophy.

I think it's "unrealistic" for a black man to live in a white world that, for better or worse, is out to exstinguish him, to live within a community that has been beaten down for 400 years, and to think that anyone, either black or white, is going to come to save him. (If s/he hasn't come to save us by now, the smart money says that s/he ain't coming.) As I said before, if someone or something does, then I am always most grateful, but I prepare and live as if no one will. That is not anti-social, I think it's just a conservative approach to keeping my head above water.

quote:

Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
In this country, we need to be concerned for self (individualism), but we also need to place communal concern (collectivism) as equally as important as self-concern.

Do you think that the communal concern you refer to can be best nurtured by speaking in broad generalities to "t h e b l a c k c o m m u n i t y" or by focusing on nurturing and developing the black family, one family at a time. In my opinion, if we do that, the "black community" gets taken care of naturally.

This approach is less about individualism, but more a strategy to develop our community.

quote:

Seems just as hypocritical that liberals love affirmative action when it was put in place by an arch conservative.

Emphasis on the phrase "Put In Place"... As deceiptful as that is, that of course says nothing about the forces the created the concept itself and brought pressure to bear to cause someone, even an arch conservative (or whatever) to "Put it In Place"... nor does it say a damn thing about the conservative forces that have been aligned against it from its inception.

So please... Do more than employ Talking Points. Actual thinking is required here.

quote:

Originally posted by Nmaginate:

quote:

Seems just as hypocritical that liberals love affirmative action when it was put in place by an arch conservative.

Emphasis on the phrase "Put In Place"... As deceiptful as that is, that of course says nothing about the forces the created the concept itself and brought pressure to bear to cause someone, even an arch conservative (or whatever) to "Put it In Place"... nor does it say a damn thing about the conservative forces that have been aligned against it from its inception.

So please... Do more than employ Talking Points. Actual thinking is required here.

There are no conservative pro affirmative action talking points my friend.

As you may recall, the point I was responding to was about hypocrisy. There was some mythic "collective" standard that I was being hypocritical to because I support affirmative action as a conservative.

If a strong conservative signed the bill and obviously he was elected to office then there wasn't any overwhelming "force" for progressive or liberal programs/change at that time. (Do you really think that Nixon was politically forced to sign it?) Without regard to that, affirmative action is a tool. I don't view it in such partisan terms as perhaps others do.

quote:

Originally posted by IMABLACKCONANDIDON'TCAREWHOKNOWSITDAMMIT:
Conservatism is good because it sure beats the hell out of anything else. What other ideology allows man to rape, pillage, exploit, steal, etc., etc. all in the name of blatant self-interest. I want more. Conservatism allows me to get more.

Any questions?

I.A.B.C.A.I.D.C.W.K.I.D:

Could you please define "Conservatism" for me?

Could you list some examples of "Black Conservatives"?

Why do you think that most Black political rallies focus upon attacking Black conservatives and White Right Wing forces rather than defining and articulating what they believe with emphasis on CONSTRUCTING infrastructure within the community rather than changing national policy so that they can receive resources that were created via capitalism - a policy that they hate - as a means of LIFTING folks up to the American standard - a country that they seem to have a bunch of resentment against.
Do you agree with the notion that rather than "Promoting Conservatism" that it is best that the Black community be asked to JUSTIFY what they believe now by showing evidence that it is working WITHIN their community rather than those who are "Progressive" showing evidence of how they have GOTTEN WHITE FOLKS TO CHANGE as proof of Black's advanncement?

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
My problem with conservativism is that it is all about limiting the access others have to want they need. It is as MBM states: all about using public funds to promote private interests.

I have no doubt that the people of Pakistan who were impacted by the earthquake and people in Indonesia who are still suffering from the tsunami believe the same thing about YOU and the other Americans who are acting quite "Conservative" with their resouces.

In a strange way YOU are attempting to protect your resources and "keep them in your national pocket" in the same way that the wealthy Republican in America seeks to keep his money in his family's wallet rather than allowing other people to extract it for their general benefit.

You assimilation into acceptance of the NATION STATE is the only thing that allows you to reject this as FACT.

quote:

Originally posted by Faheem:
It would be foolish to debate such a person, at least the sick Negroes Like CF claim to care about Black folk...

No Kevin - it is MORE FOOLISH to attempt to fend for people, attempting to change them into an image that YOU seek via your SUPERIOR INTELLECT without ever asking THEM TO DO ANYTHING TO ASSIST IN THEIR SALVATION.

It seems to me that your "care for Black folks" extends about as much as you see them/us as VICTIMs who are damaged goods due to racism and who are not able to see the value in changing the day to day culture that our children live within as a means of directing them to the day in which they SUBMIT THAT COLLEGE ADMISSIONS APPLICATION in competition with OTHER FOLKS who have "Affirmatively" acted in support of their children's education.

Ideally the problems that too many of our children are having at "the finish line" should provide FEEDBACK as to the educational process that they have just been exposed to for 12 years. Sadly, in your brainwashed condition you quickly run to your long time oppressor demanding that HE make you whole rather than addressing you people and asking them to buy into these high standards FOR THEY ARE WORTHY.

You end up accepting the lower expectations of Black performance just as the WHITE RACIST assumes is the case.

[/QUOTE]
Personally, I thought it was Kevin41, until I saw his replies! I still think it's an existing member playing around. Hmmmmm....[/QUOTE]

**Nah...certain things I don't even play around with...like racial jokes.....plus I most likely would have stated my sarcastic intent in the post...because I DAMN sure do not think like that..........

quote:

If a strong conservative signed the bill and obviously he was elected to office then there wasn't any overwhelming "force" for progressive or liberal programs/change at that time.

Idiotic. How many times have there been a Republican president with a Democrat Congress or vice versa? How exactly does Nixon "Putting It In Place" constitute much of jackshit when, according to the Affirmative Action Timeline... the social forces, by whatever label you want to give to them, were already under way well before Nixon took office.

And I guess Nixon's decision to "Put AA In Place" existed in some vacuum and Nixon just thought it would be nice or something, as if he conceived of it himself. The least you could do is give credit where credit is actually do. And that, even by giving credit to a "conservative" or Republican. A Black Republican at that, who not only supported AA but happens to be known as "The Father Of Affirmative Action" -- Arthur Fletcher.

Now, what did he have to say about the matter?

"I focused on affirmative action and sold it to [President] Nixon as a national security issue on June 27, 1969... He believed me and gave me the license to get on it."

quote:

(Do you really think that Nixon was politically forced to sign it?)

Do you really think a WEAK rhetorical question, suggesting what you think, causes me not to think? Or to be unsure of myself... You know, the way you pretend to be "not sure"???

C'mon dude... You got to come better than that if you're going to Kick Ass around here. Especially with me. Better rhetorical devices and tactics. That and facts on your side would help.

Now, you can try to frame it in terms of "political force" as if someone or something twisted or tied or force Nixon's hand... But, I'd just say it was something that was Politically Expedient. Again, the push for AA came before Nixon got into office. And his election, in and of itself, was no indication that liberal or progressive forces were impotent or otherwise had no influence. The stage was already set.

But go ahead and use extreme language like "overwhelming" force. LOL And please do tell me what was that National Security issue all about? Exactly how could Fletcher sell AA to Nixon if there wasn't a formidable force for change that appeared to "threaten" National Security?



Without regard to that, affirmative action is a tool. I don't view it in such partisan terms as perhaps others do

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
Yeah...pretty ironic that he admits to benfitting from AA...which I have also....because credentials for some means nothing in a racist azz country unless it is forced by law....but being that those rights and many others were gained through efforts by the collective...how can one benefit from the collective efforts of others and then think individualistic.....kinda hypocritical don'tcha think?

Please show where ANYONE has claimed to have done everything on their own in this country Kevin?

It's funny how you are quick to note this "racist country" but can't bring yourself to admit that you are sucking on the fruit that those who STOLE THE LAND and killed the Indians and Mexicans to acquire. You live in California which is so rich in Mexican culture (even prior to their 'coming back home') yet you maintain you defiance and abstraction as some type of coping mechanism.

Again collective effort sometimes means THAT YOU EXPAND BEYOND THE MENTALITY OF "the Poor Black has an injured leg....I must carry him on my shoulder for he is DAMAGED GOODS".

It also includes COMMUNICATING THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO UPHOLD HIGH STANDARDS AND TO MAKE PREMIUM USE OF THEIR MENTAL FACILITIES BECAUSE THERE IS A PLACE FOR THEM IN THE SOCIETY THAT WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO CONSTRUCT

Instead you seek to PROTECT elements of DISFUNCTION IN OUR CULTURE. To ask them to change is BLAMING THE VICTIM.

Though your PUNK ASS has done not a DAMNED THING to move away from the radiation that you currently bytch about YOU have the never to always complain about how these Kryptonite folks are always doing you wrong.

YOU ARE UNWILLING TO LET GO OF YOUR STANDARD OF LIVING AS AFFORDED TO YOU BY THIS RACIST ASS COUNTRY.
In your FEAR you don't believe that this standard could ever be recreated among YOUR OWN PEOPLE.

I am just amazed as I participate on this board. The committee of attackers believe that they have me on the run for some reason. Some of you I respect. Others I laugh at because you have not one bit of credibility. Some how I am expected to obtain my self worth from this jaundiced crowd.

THE DAY THAT YOUR IDEOLOGY IS PLACED UNDER INSPECTION AND IS FORCED TO PROVIDE RESULTS WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS THE DAY THAT I SUCCEED. I would NOT have gotten you to become "Conservative". This is a term that I reject. It is nothing more than a WORD ASSOCIATION tactic that works effectively because the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive Fundamentalist have succesfully created a PAVLOV'S dog response upon the very notion. The BQPF does not need to prove that their policies work and that the "conservative" policy will not. They only need to successfully position the label - no need for argument or debate after that. Folks can read between the lines.

If only these BQPF leaders can be made to be accountable!!! They have gotten the people to look toward the outside for both the ENEMY and the PROBLEM. This is GREAT for a unified struggle. Not a good thing for ARRIVING AT A SOLUTION THOUGH. You will aways look toward this outsider to "make you whole".

CF..shut your dumb azz up and learn to view blacks as equals....whether low scoring or high scoring.....no one is even paying any attention to or addressing your nonsense anymore....as long as you try to frame discussions implying black inferiority is embraced by me when I am a higher performer than you are makes you seem like a true idiot....and see how you address AA and omit addressing the questions presented to you? you exhibit true coginitive deficiencies CF....with some psychological and gender mannerism issues to boot........but I am sure I am not the first to bring those startling revelations to you.....you should go to school and obtain some education so you can really determine the difference between real and feigned intellect...you need to actually be in a classroom environment where you can learn to factually substantiate your beliefs and also learn continuity of thought...because your diversionary tactics are about to render you to the ranks of the dysfunctional....just like your buddy in here.......but I understand you focusing on me instead of discussing those enrollment numbers and policy alternatives that affect black and white enrollments equally...you're like the poor racist cracka that is intrigued that a darkie has a doctorate at a young age.....and then starts railing on how AA took HIS spot...imagine that? My black azz in the position to take shit like doctorates from white boys...man I got power that I didn't know I had......that I could actually be mediocre like W and move more derving whites out of my way...despite being less than them.....hell i should be a member of the GOP Plantation instead of you....and ALSO feel lucky that slavery got us out of africa's nasty azz just like you feel huh CF?

quote:

If a strong conservative signed the bill and obviously he was elected to office then there wasn't any overwhelming "force" for progressive or liberal programs/change at that time. (Do you really think that Nixon was politically forced to sign it?) Without regard to that, affirmative action is a tool. I don't view it in such partisan terms as perhaps others do.

I Don't Care:

My personal view is that AA is a tool.

My issue is that it is a MISTAKE to become overdependent on such a TOOL that can be taken away from you based on changing poltical winds.

With that said we cannot ignore the FACT that while AA was removed from California during prop 209 the Asians increased their percentages at the same schools that saw Blacks vacate.

Certain folks begin to FIGHT FOR THE PROGRAM'S SURVIVAL rather than FIGHTING FOR ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE.

They claim that WE CAN DO BOTH - reform our schools and have Affirmative Action. I know that when the current BQPF leadership has TWO OPTIONS - one that requires inside change (fixing our schools by having all players step up to the plate) and having OUTSIDE forces (ie: the government and the schools) to change their ways THESE BQPF leaders will always focus on the OUTSIDERS.

They can't see that the very concept of LEVERAGING COMMUNITY RESOURCES TO ACCOMPLISH A COMMON GOAL (what was someone saying about collectivism above?) ALSO DEVELOPS THE COMMUNITY and INCREASES THE CAPABILITIES AND SYSTEMATIC FUNCTION OF THIS SAME COMMUNITY.

External dependence is nothing more than OUTSOURCING. You lose the ability to produce within OVER TIME as your people become CONSUMERS.

The PROCESS of REPAIR is as important as the STATE OF REPAIR which comes from CONTINUING PROCESS IMPROVEMENT. You don't make improvements until you move away from ABSTRACT IDEAS and have a real world model on the street.

quote:

F..shut your dumb azz up and learn to view blacks as equals....whether low scoring or high scoring.....no one is even paying any attention to or addressing your nonsense anymore....as long as you try to frame discussions implying black inferiority is embraced by me when I am a higher performer than you are makes you seem like a true idiot....a

Kevin believes that if he repeats something enough times IT BECOMES TRUE.

He says that I believe in "black inferiority". This would mean me as a Black man is "Inferior". I work hard each day to PROVIDE REAL WORLD EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Each day I work in my official capacity, representing myself, my company, my family, my race - I have to dispell the negative images that the SAMBOS who seem to escape criticism put forth for the world to digest about Black people.

You (and Empty Marxist) must (attempt to) discredit me by having me talk about the Black race (genetics) rather than the dominant CULTURE which too many are beholden to. Genetics are permanent, CULTURE is malleable.

YOU SEEK TO RESIST CHANGE WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Asking for change in order to achieve these collective interests would be to BLAME THE VICTIM.

CULTURE IS THE PROBLEM NOT GENETICS. I am a critic of BLACK CULTURE....particularly SAMBO CULTURE that scuks people in and destroys them.

Poor CF...cannot even answer specific questions or justify his stance on issues or even speak up for himself...yet he continues to try to be the "little mouth that roared"......once again CF, what do you think of fading AA altogether since you hold me to task about it and purging lower scoring white kids from higher-scoring black kids (they do exist CF) first school of choice? Since you claim I am so dependent on AA.....I say fade it and lets approach it from this angle? Are you man enough to take a stance and say if you are for or against such actions? Let's see lil fella.....once again here is your chance to put up or shut the fuck up...this is not about me or you...lets stick to the academic matters instead....personal schit is for bitch azz men. So are you going to answer the question.....CF? Are you for that AA ALTERNATIVE APPROACH that I am suggesting? Yes or No and Why or Why Not?