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Words are used in several cultures to mean different things. That dude named Amen was probably named that way, similar to people naming their kids April (month of the year), or Kunte (a famous person).

The word "amen" is a Hebrew word. The word is directly related -- in fact, almost identical -- to the Hebrew word for "believe" (amam), or faithful. Thus, it came to mean "sure" or "truly", an expression of absolute trust and confidence.

Source: Strongs

I like how it confirms God's promises to us...
Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen. - Deuteronomy 27:18

First, the second website that fine points us to doesn't always know what it's talking about:

The fact that "Amen" came from Jewish sources into Christianity is acknowledged in the Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 1 1907

"The word Amen is one of a small number of Hebrew words which have been imported unchanged into the liturgy of the Church ... 'So frequent was this Hebrew word in the mouth of Our Saviour', observes the catechism of the Council of Trent, "that it pleased the Holy Ghost to have it perpetuated in the Church of God."

It is ironical that the Holy Ghost (spiritual form of God) would ask to implement something after hearing it from The Saviour (Jesus Christ)!

Do you see anything in the Catholic Encyclopedia quote saying that teh Holy Spirit "asks" anything? How did that fellow read that into it?

Very sloppy scholarship.

Nothing like a false etymology to confirm a bias, right?

In fact, you and Strong's are right. The word "amen" in it's different forms is a quite common Hebrew word:

Esther 2:7 (translated, "brought up" in NIV)
Numbers 11:12 (transl. "carry them")
Ruth 4:16 ("cared for him")
2 Kings 18:16 ("doorposts")
2 Samuel 20:19 ("faithful ones")
Isaiah 22:25 ("firm place")

And a whole host of other places:

1 Chron. 17:24
Isa. 33:16
Jer. 15:18
Ho. 5:2
Dt. 28:59
Isa. 55:3
2 Sam. 7:16
1 Sam. 2:35; 3:20

and so it goes.

It is a common word for making something sure, certain, or secure. As used at the end of a Hebrew prayer, it could mean something like, "Absolutely," or "May it be so."

Pagan deity, indeed.

Fine, when it comes to what might support your biases, you are entirely too credulous.
It is ironical that the Holy Ghost (spiritual form of God) would ask to implement something after hearing it from The Saviour (Jesus Christ)!

You all must have never studied any metaphysics. How could God be spiritual, when every picture you see of him is white! God is the white man, and God ain't got no mystic power! Jesus Christ ain't never wielded mystic power because he's white. This universe was made by a black man so how could Jesus Christ wield mystic power. It is nothing but corruption and lies! There is nothing mystic about that damn bible. It is foul and ignoble! The mystical power exists and it is wielded by Olodumare and Shango, and all the other Orishas! I'll say it one more time and you white people on this board better start saying you are God and Goddesses and You all ain't Got no mystic power!
Thank you for the mystical revelation. Your infinite mystic power is a true blessing to the board. I am almost to the point where I can see the height of your thinking power displayed in human (finite) terms in order to commune on this plane. Your metaphysical mumbo jumbo (I mean that in the african way!) is a source of greatness and elevation for me. Keep doing your thang man!
I am civil.

Thinking? No. You are repeating and declaiming, not engaging, and certainly not listening. You are demanding that we lisen to you while you give us no reason to do so.

Not listening? Here's an example:

It is ironical that the Holy Ghost (spiritual form of God) would ask to implement something after hearing it from The Saviour (Jesus Christ)!

You all must have never studied any metaphysics. How could God be spiritual, when every picture you see of him is white! God is the white man,

You compoletely missed the point of the write that you quoted by ignoring it. The writer was not talking about color or creator, you had to inject it into the conversation because that's all you're thinking about. You bring in an irrelevant point (How can God...when every picture you see...) which you compound with the logical fallacy of the Complex Question. So what if pictures of God show him as white or black (I saw a made-for-TV movie that was originally made in the 1950s in which every character--angels, God, Jesus--were black, so "every picture that you see of" God is not white, and even if it were, it would not have any bearing on his reality. Every picture of him could be white and he'd still have power that you deny him.

Your denying him power doesn't make him any the less.

Tell you what: for the time being, I'll settle for your saying it in another way. Then you can give us some logical reasons for your statements, ok? But try putting them on your "Olodumare and Shango" thread.

And of course, you usually recommend that we buy your book.
Divine Joy
The word "amen" is a Hebrew word. The word is directly related -- in fact, almost identical -- to the Hebrew word for "believe" (amam), or faithful. Thus, it came to mean "sure" or "truly", an expression of absolute trust and confidence.

--the word Amen has an ancient African Egyptian origin.

--the word Hebrew did not come into fruition until these people arrived in Europe and were called thus by the Europeans, therefore--Hebrew is not 'dated' enough to even back up blaq antiquity...only strong enough to reflect/mirror what was brought [by them] out of Ancient African Egypt...
Posted December 15, 2005 02:43 PM; Melesi said: The fact that "Amen" came from Jewish sources into Christianity is acknowledged in the Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 1 1907.

--the catholic church isn't even authentic!'s see!

Hebrew has European origin
Catholism has Hebrew origin

--they both stem back to ancient African Egypt...

"100 Amazing Facts About The Negro, with Complete Proof--JA Rogers"
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Isn't the oldest use of a word the origin? Especially considering the "Hebrews" didn't have a religion(by their own Sun Book/Helio Biblio) until they were in Egypt? hhmmmm...

It is KeMeTic... Amen... 'The hidden one'.(Sound familiar?)

Amen (Amon) and Amen-Ra, King of the Gods, and the Triad of Thebes
Among the gods who were known to the Egyptians in very early times were Amen and his consort Ament, and their names are found in the Pyramid Texts, e.g., Unas, line 558, where they are mentioned immediately after the pair of gods Nau and Nen, and in connection with the twin Lion-gods Shu and Tefnut, who are described as the two gods who made their own bodies, and with the goddess Temt, the female counterpart of Tem. It is evident that even in the remote period of the Vth Dynasty Amen and Ament were numbered among the primeval gods, if not as gods in chief certainly as subsidiary forms of some of them, and from the fact that they are mentioned immediately after the deities of primeval matter, Nau and Nen, who we may consider to be the equivalents of the watery abyss from which all things sprang, and immediately before Temt and Shu and Tefnut, it would seem that the writers or editors of the Pyramid Texts assigned great antiquity to their existence. Of the attributes ascribed to Amen in the Ancient Empire nothing is known, but, if we accept the meaning "hidden" which is usually given to his name, we must conclude that he was the personification of the hidden and unknown creative power which was associated with the primeval abyss, gods in the creation of the world, and all that is in it. The word or root amen, certainly means "what is hidden," "what is not seen," "what cannot be seen," and the like, and this fact is proved by scores of examples which may be collected from texts of all periods. In hymns to Amen we often read that he is "hidden to his children, "and "hidden to gods and men," and it has been stated that these expressions only refer to the "hiding," i.e., "setting" of the sun each evening, and that they are only to be understood in a physical sense, and to mean nothing more than the disappearance of the god Amen from the sight of men at the close of day. Now, not only is the god himself said to be "hidden," but his name also is "hidden," and his form, or similitude, is said to be "unknown;" these statements show that "hidden," when applied to Amen, the great god, has reference to something more than the "sun which has disappeared below the horizon," and that it indicates the god who cannot be seen with the mortal eyes, and who is invisible, as well as inscrutable, to gods as well as men. In the times approaching the Ptolemaic period the name Amen appears to have been connected with the root men, "to abide, to be permanent;" and one of the attributes which were applied to him was that of eternal. Amen is represented in five forms: 1. As a man, when he is seen seated on a throne, and holding in one hand the scepter, and in the other the symbol of "life." In this form he is one of the nine deities who compose the company of the gods of Amen-Ra, the other eight being Ament, Nu, Nut, Hehui, Hehet, Kekui, Keket, and Hathor. 2. As a man with the head of a frog, whilst his female counterpart Ament has the head of a uraeus. 3. As a man with the head of a uraeus, whilst his female counterpart has the head of a cat. 4. As an ape. 5. As a lion couching upon a pedestal.

Not to be flippant, but this is BASIC Afro-Centric stuff folks.
But that is beside the point. The Hebrew word "amen" does not relate to divinity. It is a common word, used in everyday speech, preserved in such conversations and teachings as "amen, amen, I say to you that..." and he wasn't speaking to or of a god or of anything divine.

It is used commonly, not reserved for cultic speech.

The oldest use that we know of of a word is not necessarily the source. One could ask, for example, where the Egyptians got it. Unfortunately, that seems to be a fruitless search, for the records are not extant, and probably could not be. So we would have to be careful in saying that it is the source. It could be, but we do not know.

There are false etymologies aplenty, based on exactly the kind of thinking that this amen/Amen supposition has in it. "Semite" does not come from the Latin "semi" but form the Hebrew "Shem." Greek has two words spelled identically that mean two different things--"thumos" is "anger," and "thumos" is "lentil." The only difference is the accent. We have words that mean the opposite of themselves: "cleave" can mean to "cut in two" or "cling together as one."

So be careful when tracing the etymology of a word. If there is no relation between two similar-looking words in meaning, then it's most likely that there is no relation between them at all. Amen in Egyptian was a god. Amen in Hebrew is a common word meaning "absolutely," or "truly," or even "me, too," plus the meanings of security and firmness.
Originally posted by Melesi:
But that is beside the point.

How wxactly, I could have sworn that 'Amen' was the topic at hand.

The Hebrew word "amen" does not relate to divinity. It is a common word, used in everyday speech, preserved in such conversations and teachings as "amen, amen, I say to you that..." and he wasn't speaking to or of a god or of anything divine.

It is used commonly, not reserved for cultic speech.

You have no idea how funny what you just said is. Look up the work 'cult' and others may get it...I doubt you will. BTW I could have sworn all Hebrew words have a mystic meaning, that the whole language has numerical corrolations ect. The entire speach is 'divine' to people that read Hebrew. Didn't your Jewish studies inform you of that melesi?

The oldest use that we know of of a word is not necessarily the source. One could ask, for example, where the Egyptians got it. Unfortunately, that seems to be a fruitless search, for the records are not extant, and probably could not be. So we would have to be careful in saying that it is the source. It could be, but we do not know.

Actually, the Egyptians say in many documents that they recieved their knowledge from 'up' the Nile from it's sounrce, a.k.a. the interior of Africa...Upper Egypt being "south" in our upside down world view. The Neteru/Netcher 'Bes' is the anthropomorphic phenotye made devine of the Twa people(Pygmies) that the Kemetic (Egyptians) scribes gave praise to as the source of their knowledge. This is documented in the Medu Neteru...a book you obviousely skipped. These people are found at the source of the Nile and in the Congo Basin. African either way it goes. I'm no tribalist/micronationalist.

Thanks for once again proving your lack of knowledge about ancient KMTic texts.

Why do you insist on speaking on things outside the Bible when you know you haven't studied them?

Let's infuse some logic here. The Hebrews of the Bible dwelt in KMT(Egypt) for how long by their own recoeds? And didn't have a religion mentioned in their own Holy Book until contact with Egypt. The same people(Egyptians) that had been worshipping one of the manifestations of God known as Amen. Moses(Moshe) was "learned in all the ways of Egypt" but some how, they just "happen" to use the same word and there is no connection.

Even thought there are examples aplenty of how the Helio Biblio(Sun Book) has plagerized portions of scripture directly from the papyrus of ani? Which Moses and 'his' people were exposed to on a daily basis during most of their 'Old Testament' stay in Egypt. I have the texts if you want to read them.

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

There are false etymologies aplenty, based on exactly the kind of thinking that this amen/Amen supposition has in it. "Semite" does not come from the Latin "semi" but form the Hebrew "Shem." Greek has two words spelled identically that mean two different things--"thumos" is "anger," and "thumos" is "lentil." The only difference is the accent. We have words that mean the opposite of themselves: "cleave" can mean to "cut in two" or "cling together as one."

So be careful when tracing the etymology of a word. If there is no relation between two similar-looking words in meaning, then it's most likely that there is no relation between them at all. Amen in Egyptian was a god. Amen in Hebrew is a common word meaning "absolutely," or "truly," or even "me, too," plus the meanings of security and firmness.

Now that's beside the point.

You have lost all credibility when you suggested Yeshua(Jesus) could have possibly been Germanic in another thread.

Awaiting another weak X-tian apologetic response...

Oh, come--I did not say that Jesus could have been Germanic. That you would say so shows that you just might be deliberately misunderstanding me. I said that, since we do not know what he looked like--he is not described--then we have to hold open the possibility that he looked like anything, including that Germanic picture. I do not think that the possibility is great that he looked like that, but the point I made was not about his appearance but about our proud certainy in what we cannot be certain about. It was about us, not about him.

You have no idea how funny what you just said is. Look up the work 'cult' and others may get it...I doubt you will. BTW I could have sworn all Hebrew words have a mystic meaning, that the whole language has numerical corrolations ect. The entire speach is 'divine' to people that read Hebrew. Didn't your Jewish studies inform you of that melesi?

I am familiar with the word "cult." It's meaning is a bit larger than our modern popular definition of an incorrect worship or belief system. The term "cultus" (from which "cultic" comes) is a neutral term--a word without derogatory or positive meaning indicating a system of worship.

Not all words in Hebrew had cultic or mystic meanings. In fact, the majority of them did not. The fact that letters were used as numbers does not mean that the letters and therefore the words have numerological meanings. "Negeth" does not; "shamem" does not--or can you find some mystic meaning in the words for "before" and "appall"? It isn't the "speech" that is divine to speakers of Hebrew, it's the word of God.

And where the Egyptians received their knowledge is not the same as tracing an etymology. From where "up the Nile" did the word come? Which language? What did the word mean there and then? How was it used? Who used it? That's what I mean, and that information for the word "amen" is very likely not available. I notice that you did not provide it, despite your deep reading in Egyptian literature.

Ok, they did not use the same word with exactly the same meaning. I mean, "amen" to describe all sorts of things and conditions is clearly not the name of a god. I did reference a few of the uses of the word in a previous post in this thread. You might want to look them up. Everyday speech, not special, not divine, not referring to God. Just a common, everyday use of a common, everyday term. That is not proof of Egyptian gods in Hebrew.

As for Moses, yes, he was learned in the ways of Egypt, but from the time of his self-imposed exile from Egypt he learned things a bit different from things Egyptian. I'm sure that he could learn after he left Egypt?

You appear more certain about these things that you should be.
Excerpts From

The Christ Conspiracy:
The Greatest Story Ever Sold

by Acharya S

From the very beginning of our quest to unravel the Christ conspiracy, we encounter suspicious territory, as we look back in time and discover that the real foundation of Christianity appears nothing like the image provided by the clergy and mainstream authorities. Indeed, far more rosy and cheerful than the reality is the picture painted by the vested interests as to the origins of the Christian religion: To wit, a miracle-making founder and pious, inspired apostles who faithfully and infallibly recorded his words and deeds shortly after his advent, and then went about promulgating the faith with great gusto and success in "saving souls." Contrary to this popular delusion, the reality is that, in addition to the enormous amount of bloodshed which accompanies its foundation, Christianity's history is rife with forgery and fraud. So rampant is this treachery and chicanery that any serious researcher must immediately begin to wonder about the story itself. In truth, the Christian tale has always been as difficult to swallow as the myths and fables of other cultures; yet countless people have been able to overlook the rational mind and to willingly believe it, even though they may equally as easily dismiss the nearly identical stories of these other cultures....

We have seen that there is no evidence for the historicity of the Christian founder, that the earliest Christian proponents were as a whole either utterly credulous or astoundingly deceitful, and that said "defenders of the faith" were compelled under incessant charges of fraud to admit that Christianity was a rehash of older religions. It has also been demonstrated that the world into which Christianity was born was filled with assorted gods and goddesses, as opposed to a monotheistic vacuum. In fact, in their fabulous exploits and wondrous powers many of these gods and goddesses are virtually the same as the Christ character, as attested to by the Christian apologists themselves. In further inspecting this issue we discover that "Jesus Christ" is in fact a compilation of these various gods, who were worshipped and whose dramas were regularly played out by ancient people long before the Christian era....

Horus of Egypt
"Egypt, the primeval seat of learning, was the high seat of Sun adoration. The Sphinx, with the face to the east, represents Harmmachus, young Horus, or the rising Sun. The orb is Osiris, the ruling god of day. In its descent it is the dying deity, going below to the land of Shades; but only to be resurrected as the victorious Horus, piercing the head of the dragon of darkness."

James Bonwick, Irish Druids & Old Irish Religions (190)

The Egyptian sun god Horus, who predated the Christ character by thousands of years, shares the following in common with Jesus:

Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph"). Seb is also known as "Geb": "As Horus the Elder he..was believed to be the son of Geb and Nut." Lewis Spence, Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends, 84.

He was of royal descent.
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
Horus walked on water.
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He came to fulfill the Law.
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph, the "Holy Ghost," impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis--the original "Madonna and Child."
Ancient History Sourcebook:
The Precepts of Ptah-Hotep, c. 2200 BCE


Precepts of the prefect, the lord Ptah-hotep,
under the Majesty of the King of the South and North,
Assa, living eternally forever.

The prefect, the feudal lord Ptah-hotep, says: O Ptah with the two crocodiles, my lord, the progress of age changes into senility. Decay falls upon man and decline takes the place of youth. A vexation weighs upon him every day; sight fails, the ear becomes deaf; his strength dissolves without ceasing. The mouth is silent, speech fails him; the mind decays, remembering not the day before. The whole body suffers. That which is good becomes evil; taste completely disappears. Old age makes a man altogether miserable; the nose is stopped up, breathing no more from exhaustion. Standing or sitting there is here a condition of . . . Who will cause me to have authority to speak, that I may declare to him the words of those who have heard the counsels of former days? And the counsels heard of the gods, who will give me authority to declare them? Cause that it be so and that evil be removed from those that are enlightened; send the double . . . The majesty of this god says: Instruct him in the sayings of former days. It is this which constitutes the merit of the children of the great. All that which makes the soul equal penetrates him who hears it, and that which it says produces no satiety.

Beginning of the arrangement of the good sayings, spoken by the noble lord, the divine father, beloved of Ptah, the son of the king, the first-born of his race, the prefect and feudal lord Ptah-hotep, so as to instruct the ignorant in the knowledge of the arguments of the good sayings. It is profitable for him who hears them, it is a loss to him who shall transgress them. He says to his son:

Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite.

If you find a disputant while he is hot, and if he is superior to you in ability, lower the hands, bend the back, do not get into a passion with him. As he will not let you destroy his words, it is utterly wrong to interrupt him; that proclaims that you are incapable of keeping yourself calm, when you are contradicted. If then you have to do with a disputant while he is hot, imitate one who does not stir. You have the advantage over him if you keep silence when he is uttering evil words. "The better of the two is he who is impassive," say the bystanders, and you are right in the opinion of the great.

If you find a disputant while he is hot, do not despise him because you are not of the same opinion. Be not angry against him when he is wrong; away with such a thing. He fights against himself; require him not further to flatter your feelings. Do not amuse yourself with the spectacle which you have before you; it is odious, it is mean, it is the part of a despicable soul so to do. As soon as you let yourself be moved by your feelings, combat this desire as a thing that is reproved by the great.

If you have, as leader, to decide on the conduct of a great number of men, seek the most perfect
manner of doing so that your own conduct may be without reproach. Justice is great, invariable, and assured; it has not been disturbed since the age of Ptah. To throw obstacles in the way of the laws is to open the way before violence. Shall that which is below gain the upper hand, if the unjust does not attain to the place of justice? Even he who says: I take for myself, of my own free-will; but says not: I take by virtue of my authority. The limitations of justice are invariable; such is the instruction which every man receives from his father.

Inspire not men with fear, else Ptah will fight against you in the same manner. If any one asserts that he lives by such means, Ptah will take away the bread from his mouth; if any one asserts that he enriches himself thereby, Ptah says: I may take those riches to myself. If any one asserts that he beats others, Ptah will end by reducing him to impotence. Let no one inspire men with fear; this is the will of Ptah. Let one provide sustenance for them in the lap of peace; it will then be that they will freely give what has been torn from them by terror.

If you are among the persons seated at meat in the house of a greater man than yourself, take that which he gives you, bowing to the ground. Regard that which is placed before you, but point not at it; regard it not frequently; he is a blameworthy person who departs from this rule. Speak not to the great man more than he requires, for one knows not what may be displeasing to him. Speak when he invites you and your worth will be pleasing. As for the great man who has plenty of means of existence, his conduct is as he himself wishes. He does that which pleases him; if he desires to repose, he realizes his intention. The great man stretching forth his hand does that to which other men do not attain. But as the means of existence are under the will of Ptah, one can not rebel against it.

If you are one of those who bring the messages of one great man to another, conform yourself exactly to that wherewith he has charged you; perform for him the commission as he has enjoined you. Beware of altering in speaking the offensive words which one great person addresses to another; he who perverts the trustfulness of his way, in order to repeat only what produces pleasure in the words of every man, great or small, is a detestable person.

If you are a farmer, gather the crops in the field which the great Ptah has given you, do not boast in the house of your neighbors; it is better to make oneself dreaded by one's deeds. As for him who, master of his own way of acting, being all-powerful, seizes the goods of others like a crocodile in the midst even of watchment, his children are an object of malediction, of scorn, and of hatred on account of it, while his father is grievously distressed, and as for the mother who has borne him, happy is another rather than herself. But a man becomes a god when he is chief of a tribe which has confidence in following him.

If you abase yourself in obeying a superior, your conduct is entirely good before Ptah. Knowing who you ought to obey and who you ought to command, do not lift up your heart against him. As you know that in him is authority, be respectful toward him as belonging to him. Wealth comes only at Ptah's own good-will, and his caprice only is the law; as for him who . . Ptah, who has created his superiority, turns himself from him and he is overthrown.

Be active during the time of your existence, do no more than is commanded. Do not spoil the time of your activity; he is a blameworthy person who makes a bad use of his moments. Do not lose the daily opportunity of increasing that which your house possesses. Activity produces riches, and riches do not endure when it slackens.

If you are a wise man, bring up a son who shall be pleasing to Ptah. If he conforms his conduct to your way and occupies himself with your affairs as is right, do to him all the good you can; he is your son, a person attached to you whom your own self has begotten. Separate not your heart from him.... But if he conducts himself ill and transgresses your wish, if he rejects all counsel, if his mouth goes according to the evil word, strike him on the mouth in return. Give orders without hesitation to those who do wrong, to him whose temper is turbulent; and he will not deviate from the straight path, and there will be no obstacle to interrupt the way.

If you are employed in the larit, stand or sit rather than walk about. Lay down rules for yourself from the first: not to absent yourself even when weariness overtakes you. Keep an eye on him who enters announcing that what he asks is secret; what is entrusted to you is above appreciation, and all contrary argument is a matter to be rejected. He is a god who penetrates into a place where no relaxation of the rules is made for the privileged.

If you are with people who display for you an extreme affection, saying: "Aspiration of my heart, aspiration of my heart, where there is no remedy! That which is said in your heart, let it be realized by springing up spontaneously. Sovereign master, I give myself to your opinion. Your name is approved without speaking. Your body is full of vigor, your face is above your neighbors." If then you are accustomed to this excess of flattery, and there be an obstacle to you in your desires, then your impulse is to obey your passion. But he who . . . according to his caprice, his soul is . . ., his body is . . . While the man who is master of his soul is superior to those whom Ptah has loaded with his gifts; the man who obeys his passion is under the power of his wife.

Declare your line of conduct without reticence; give your opinion in the council of your lord; while there are people who turn back upon their own words when they speak, so as not to offend him who has put forward a statement, and answer not in this fashion: "He is the great man who will recognize the error of another; and when he shall raise his voice to oppose the other about it he will keep silence after what I have said."

If you are a leader, setting forward your plans according to that which you decide, perform perfect actions which posterity may remember, without letting the words prevail with you which multiply flattery, which excite pride and produce vanity.

If you are a leader of peace, listen to the discourse of the petitioner. Be not abrupt with him; that would trouble him. Say not to him: "You have already recounted this." Indulgence will encourage him to accomplish the object of his coming. As for being abrupt with the complainant because he described what passed when the injury was done, instead of complaining of the injury itself let it not be! The way to obtain a clear explanation is to listen with kindness.

If you desire to excite respect within the house you enter, for example the house of a superior, a friend, or any person of consideration, in short everywhere where you enter, keep yourself from making advances to a woman, for there is nothing good in so doing. There is no prudence in taking part in it, and thousands of men destroy themselves in order to enjoy a moment, brief as a dream, while they gain death, so as to know it. It is a villainous intention, that of a man who thus excites himself; if he goes on to carry it out, his mind abandons him. For as for him who is without repugnance for such an act, there is no good sense at all in him.

If you desire that your conduct should be good and preserved from all evil, keep yourself from every attack of bad humor. It is a fatal malady which leads to discord, and there is no longer any existence for him who gives way to it. For it introduces discord between fathers and mothers, as well as between brothers and sisters; it causes the wife and the husband to hate each other; it contains all kinds of wickedness, it embodies all kinds of wrong. When a man has established his just equilibrium and walks in this path, there where he makes his dwelling, there is no room for bad humor.

Be not of an irritable temper as regards that which happens at your side; grumble not over your own affairs. Be not of an irritable temper in regard to your neighbors; better is a compliment to that which displeases than rudeness. It is wrong to get into a passion with one's neighbors, to be no longer master of one's words. When there is only a little irritation, one creates for oneself an affliction for the time when one will again be cool.

If you are wise, look after your house; love your wife without alloy. Fill her stomach, clothe her back; these are the cares to be bestowed on her person. Caress her, fulfil her desires during the time of her existence; it is a kindness which does honor to its possessor. Be not brutal; tact will influence her better than violence; her . . . behold to what she aspires, at what she aims, what she regards. It is that which fixes her in your house; if you repel her, it is an abyss. Open your arms for her, respond to her arms; call her, display to her your love.

Treat your dependents well, in so far as it belongs to you to do so; and it belongs to those whom Ptah has favored. If any one fails in treating his dependents well it is said: "He is a person . . ." As we do not know the events which may happen tomorrow, he is a wise person by whom one is well treated. When there comes the necessity of showing zeal, it will then be the dependents themselves who say: "Come on, come on," if good treatment has not quitted the place; if it has quitted it, the dependents are defaulters.

Do not repeat any extravagance of language; do not listen to it; it is a thing which has escaped from a hasty mouth. If it is repeated, look, without hearing it, toward the earth; say nothing in regard to it. Cause him who speaks to you to know what is just, even him who provokes to injustice; cause that which is just to be done, cause it to triumph. As for that which is hateful according to the law, condemn it by unveiling it.

If you are a wise man, sitting in the council of your lord, direct your thought toward that which is wise. Be silent rather than scatter your words. When you speak, know that which can be brought against you. To speak in the council is an art, and speech is criticized more than any other labor; it is contradiction which puts it to the proof.

If you are powerful, respect knowledge and calmness of language. Command only to direct; to be absolute is to run into evil. Let not your heart be haughty, neither let it be mean. Do not let your orders remain unsaid and cause your answers to penetrate; but speak without heat, assume a serious countenance. As for the vivacity of an ardent heart, temper it; the gentle man penetrates all obstacles. He who agitates himself all the day long has not a good moment; and he who amuses himself all the day long keeps not his fortune. Aim at fulness like pilots; once one is seated another works, and seeks to obey one's orders.

Disturb not a great man; weaken not the attention of him who is occupied. His care is to embrace his task, and he strips his person through the love which he puts into it. That transports men to Ptah, even the love for the work which they accomplish. Compose then your face even in trouble, that peace may be with you, when agitation is with . . .These are the people who succeed in what they desire.

Teach others to render homage to a great man. If you gather the crop for him among men, cause it to return fully to its owner, at whose hands is your subsistence. But the gift of affection is worth more than the provisions with which your back is covered. For that which the great man receives from you will enable your house to live, without speaking of the maintenance you enjoy, which you desire to preserve; it is thereby that he extends a beneficent hand, and that in your home good things are added to good things. Let your love pass into the heart of those who love you; cause those about you to be loving and obedient.

If you are a son of the guardians deputed to watch over the public tranquillity, execute your commission without knowing its meaning, and speak with firmness. Substitute not for that which the instructor has said what you believe to be his intention; the great use words as it suits them. Your part is to transmit rather than to comment upon.

If you are annoyed at a thing, if you are tormented by someone who is acting within his right, get out of his sight, and remember him no more when he has ceased to address you.

If you have become great after having been little, if you have become rich after having been poor, when you are at the head of the city, know how not to take advantage of the fact that you have reached the first rank, harden not your heart because of your elevation; you are become only the administrator, the prefect, of the provisions which belong to Ptah. Put not behind you the neighbor who is like you; be unto him as a companion.

Bend your back before your superior. You are attached to the palace of the king; your house is established in its fortune, and your profits are as is fitting. Yet a man is annoyed at having an authority above himself, and passes the period of life in being vexed thereat. Although that hurts not your . . . Do not plunder the house of your neighbors, seize not by force the goods which are beside you. Exclaim not then against that which you hear, and do not feel humiliated. It is necessary to reflect when one is hindered by it that the pressure of authority is felt also by one's neighbor.

Do not make . . . you know that there are obstacles to the water which comes to its hinder part, and that there is no trickling of that which is in its bosom. Let it not . . . after having corrupted his heart.

If you aim at polished manners, call not him whom you accost. Converse with him especially in such a way as not to annoy him. Enter on a discussion with him only after having left him time to saturate his mind with the subject of the conversation. If he lets his ignorance display itself, and if he gives you all opportunity to disgrace him, treat him with courtesy rather; proceed not to drive him into a corner; do not . . . the word to him; answer not in a crushing manner; crush him not; worry him not; in order that in his turn he may not return to the subject, but depart to the profit of your conversation.

Let your countenance be cheerful during the time of your existence. When we see one departing from the storehouse who has entered in order to bring his share of provision, with his face contracted, it shows that his stomach is empty and that authority is offensive to him. Let not that happen to you; it is . . .

Know those who are faithful to you when you are in low estate. Your merit then is worth more than those who did you honor. His . . ., behold that which a man possesses completely. That is of more importance than his high rank; for this is a matter which passes from one to another. The merit of one's son is advantageous to the father, and that which he really is, is worth more than the remembrance of his father's rank.

Distinguish the superintendent who directs from the workman, for manual labor is little elevated; the inaction of the hands is honorable. If a man is not in the evil way, that which places him there is the want of subordination to authority.

If you take a wife, do not . . . Let her be more contented than any of her fellow-citizens. She will be attached to you doubly, if her chain is pleasant. Do not repel her; grant that which pleases her; it is to her contentment that she appreciates your work.

If you hear those things which I have said to you, your wisdom will be fully advanced. Although they are the means which are suitable for arriving at the maat, and it is that which makes them precious, their memory would recede from the mouth of men. But thanks to the beauty of their arrangement in rhythm all their words will now be carried without alteration over this earth eternally. That will create a canvass to be embellished, whereof the great will speak, in order to instruct men in its sayings. After having listened to them the pupil will become a master, even he who shall have properly listened to the sayings because he shall have heard them. Let him win success by placing himself in the first rank; that is for him a position perfect and durable, and he has nothing further to desire forever. By knowledge his path is assured, and he is made happy by it on the earth. The wise man is satiated by knowledge; he is a great man through his own merits. His tongue is in accord with his mind; just are his lips when he speaks, his eyes when he gazes, his ears when he hears. The advantage of his son is to do that which is just without deceiving himself.

To attend therefore profits the son of him who has attended. To attend is the result of the fact that one has attended. A teachable auditor is formed, because I have attended. Good when he has attended, good when he speaks, he who has attended has profited, and it is profitable to attend to him who has attended. To attend is worth more than anything else, for it produces love, the good thing that is twice good. The son who accepts the instruction of his father will grow old on that account. What Ptah loves is that one should attend; if one attends not, it is abhorrent to Ptah. The heart makes itself its own master when it attends and when it does not attend; but if it attends, then his heart is a beneficent master to a man. In attending to instruction, a man loves what he attends to, and to do that which is prescribed is pleasant. When a son attends to his father, it is a twofold joy for both; when wise things are prescribed to him, the son is gentle toward his master. Attending to him who has attended when such things have been prescribed to him, he engraves upon his heart that which is approved by his father; and the recollection of it is preserved in the mouth of the living who exist upon this earth.

When a son receives the instruction of his father there is no error in all his plans. Train your son to be a teachable man whose wisdom is agreeable to the great. Let him direct his mouth according to that which has been said to him; in the docility of a son is discovered his wisdom. His conduct is perfect while error carries away the unteachable. Tomorrow knowledge will support him, while the ignorant will be destroyed.

As for the man without experience who listens not, he effects nothing whatsoever. He sees knowledge in ignorance, profit in loss; he commits all kinds of error, always accordingly choosing the contrary of what is praiseworthy. He lives on that which is mortal, in this fashion. His food is evil words, whereat he is filled with astonishment. That which the great know to be mortal he lives upon every day, flying from that which would be profitable to him, because of the multitude of errors which present themselves before him every day.

A son who attends is like a follower of Horus; he is happy after having attended. He becomes great, he arrives at dignity, he gives the same lesson to his children. Let none innovate upon the precepts of his father; let the same precepts form his lessons to his children. "Verily," will his children say to him, "to accomplish what you say works marvels." Cause therefore that to flourish which is just, in order to nourish your children with it. If the teachers allow themselves to be led toward evil principles, verily the people who understand them not will speak accordingly, and that being said to those who are docile they will act accordingly. Then all the world considers them as masters and they inspire confidence in the public; but their glory endures not so long as would please them. Take not away then a word from the ancient teaching, and add not one; put not one thing in place of another; beware of uncovering the rebellious ideas which arise in you; but teach according to the words of the wise. Attend if you wish to dwell in the mouth of those who shall attend to your words, when you have entered upon the office of master, that your words may be upon our lips . . . and that there may be a chair from which to deliver your arguments.

Let your thoughts be abundant, but let your mouth be under restraint, and you shall argue with the great. Put yourself in unison with the ways of your master; cause him to say: "He is my son," so that those who shall hear it shall say "Praise be to her who has borne him to him!" Apply yourself while you speak; speak only of perfect things; and let the great who shall hear you say: "Twice good is that which issues from his mouth!"

Do that which your master bids you. Twice good is the precept of his father, from whom he has issued, from his flesh. What he tells us, let it be fixed in our heart; to satisfy him greatly let us do for him more than he has prescribed. Verily a good son is one of the gifts of Ptah, a son who does even better than he has been told to do. For his master he does what is satisfactory, putting himself with all his heart on the part of right. So I shall bring it about that your body shall be healthful, that the Pharaoh shall be satisfied with you in all circumstances and that you shall obtain years of life without default. It has caused me on earth to obtain one hundred and ten years of life, along with the gift of the favor of the Pharoah among the first of those whom their works have ennobled, satisfying the Pharoah in a place of dignity.

It is finished, from its beginning to its end, according to that which is found in writing.

Fine is questioning the origins of the word Amen. Above, is information about Horus. Horus has direct relation to the name AMEN. AMEN is supposedly HORUS' father and ISIS his virgin mother. I felt that it was important to point out this information as well. I have questioned why the word AMEN is in the bible myself. No reason really makes any sense.

Other factors.

The English KJ translation of the bible uses AMEN (which is not even an English term) The bible warns of worshiping the sun god. (AMEN RA= SUN GOD) And we go to church on SUN DAY and say AMEN. Everyone always wonders about those tombs in Egypt, and the symbols of Horus ISIS AMEN are all througout them. In the old testament of the bible it calls Lucifer the morning star. Above we show a similarity between HORUS and JESUS. And HORUS is also considered the morning star. Now in the NIV version of the bible, Jesus is called the morning star in the book of Acts. (I'll make sure and look it up)

I think its worth investigating. Especially because this belief was the originally held by the Romans, who converted to Christianity later:

Amen's name means "The Hidden One." Amen was the patron deity of the city of Thebes from earliest times, and was viewed (along with his consort Amenet) as a primordial creation-deity by the priests of Hermopolis. His sacred animals were the goose and the ram.Up to the Middle Kingdom Amen was merely a local god in Thebes; but when the Thebans had established their sovereignty in Egypt, Amen became a prominent deity, and by Dynasty XVIII was termed the King of the Gods. His famous temple, Karnak, is the largest religious structure ever built by man. According to Budge, Amen by Dynasty XIX-XX was thought of as "an invisible creative power which was the source of all life in heaven, and on the earth, and in the great deep, and in the Underworld, and which made itself manifest under the form of Ra." Additionally, Amen appears to have been the protector of any pious devotee in need.

Egyptian sun god and creator god. He was usually depicted in human form with a falcon head, crowned with the sun disc encircled by the uraeus (a stylized representation of the sacred cobra). The sun itself was taken to be either his body or his eye. He was said to traverse the sky each day in a solar barque and pass through the underworld each night on another solar barque to reappear in the east each morning. His principal cult centre was at Heliopolis ("sun city"), near modern Cairo. Re was also considered to be an underworld god, closely associated in this respect with Osiris. In this capacity he was depicted as a ram-headed figure.

Throne". Egyptian mother goddess. Daughter of Geb and Nut according to the Heliopolitan genealogy. Sister and wife of Osiris. Mother of Horus. She was depicted in human form, crowned either by a throne or by cow horns enclosing a sun disk. A vulture was also sometimes incorporated in her crown. She is sometimes depicted as a kite above the mummified body of Osiris. As the personification of the throne, she was an important source of the pharaoh's power. Her cult was popular throughout Egypt, but the most important sanctuaries were at Giza and at Behbeit El-Hagar in the Nile delta. Isis later had an importan cult in the Greco-Roman world, with sanctuaries at Delos and Pompeii. Her Latin epithet was Stella Maris, or "star of the sea".

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