The Truth About Uncle Tom!!

Bankins,

Yes this is true!!! It reminds me of a "Jeffersons" episode where Loiuses Uncle Ward visits. George keeps refering to him as "Uncle Tom". Bentley even stops by and says, "Oh, you must be Mrs. J's Uncle Tom."

Then Uncle Ward describes the real story about Uncle Tom and proceeds to say, "...and George, I would NEVER refer to you as an Uncle Tom." This was the quintessential put down!!!!

On the other forum, Bankins, a fellow American, buckstops posted a similar article. You should check this guy out, man, Whoppie will back me up on this!!!

I-man, thanks for the response. I remember buckstops from the old forum, but I'm not familiar with his post on Uncle Tom-will check it out.

Josiah Henson was a very courageous man who endured far more than I could have. I'm glad he's not alive today to see his Uncle Tom image trampled so by the very folks whose ancestors were possibly lead by him to freedom.

Here are some more links on Mr. Henson...
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/utc/abolitn/henson49hp.html

http://www.bccns.com/josiah.htm



[This message was edited by B Bankins on September 16, 2002 at 07:02 PM.]

Well, first of all, let me admit that I have never read the book Uncle Tom's Cabin!!! However, I have now found and downloaded it, and it will be the next thing I read!

After cursory investigation, though, I would have to both agree and disagree with the introductory post! Although, it is a popular train of thought that Uncle Tom = a traitor, I never thought that that would encompass the whole definition, and based on excerpts I've read, that would indeed be the case! Webster's definition of the term "Uncle Tom" is as follows:

quote:

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a black (person) whose behavior toward whites is regarded as fawning or servile: a term of contempt

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Other articles I've read say that Mr. Henson, indeed, was a "good Negro" in that, seeing how other slaves acted and were treated based on those acts, he decided it would be best to play the role and not invite the hardships and tortures accorded to those who resisted their plight. As it turned out, he was right!! By taking this course, he was able to survive the evil of slavery long enough to escape to Canada and become free of it! Therefore, I'd call it a good stategy!!

But, you can't compare "Uncle Tom" the character in the book to Josiah Henson, the man/the slave. Yes, the character was based on Mr. Henson and his experiences, but clearly, there were significant differences in the reality of the two! From what I understand, one died at the hand of his fictional master, the other was intelligent enough to not only break himself and his family free, but to return to assist others to freedom as well!

So, yes, the term is often misused in present-day conversations ... but also, it seems to be an appropriate slang term used in other contexts, as well!! That is to say, not everyone who uses the term, doesn't know what they are talking about! But, of course, there are always a few in every bunch!

However, I am going to read the text to find out for myself! Until then, I will reserve full judgement about what is being said here!

Thanks for posting your opinion and taking the time to read both my post and the Uncle Tom story. I do appreciate your honesty.

Mr. Henson did what he did to stay alive and protect his family. He spent years gaining the trust and admiration of his master so as to use that to his advantage-not because he loved or wanted to be like the white man. Remember, as a child he saw his father beaten and had his ear cut off for trying to protect his wife from an overseer.

Mrs. Stowe was attempting to show the horrors of slavery even for "good slaves" like Uncle Tom who for all his loyalty to his master would still end up being sold like an animal-his family divided among the spoils. As for Uncle Tom being killed off in the book, again, good slaves were really no better off and shared the same fate as other slaves. Mrs. Stowe's book was effective in pointing out the evils of the slave trade and awakening (and embarrassing) the entire country.

I also have not read the complete book and started reading it and Mr. Henson's life story about a month ago. My wife is into African history and told me of Mr. Henson.

I can assure you this, once you start reading Uncle Toms Cabin, it's hard to put down.

"My wife is into African history and told me of Mr. Henson."


The exact reason for Uncle Tom's death in Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel...


that should shed some light (no pun) on things...

Neither my wife or I know the "exact" reason Mrs. Stowe killed off Uncle Tom. I can only give you Mr. Josiah Henson's view from his autobiography...

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"Though she made her hero die, it was fit that she did this to complete her story; and if God had not given to me a giant's constitution, I should have died over and over again long before I reached Canada. I regard it as one of the most remarkable features of my life that I have rallied after so many exposures to all kinds of hardships. I am grateful to God for His abundant mercies to me in bringing me out of Egypt into the promised land, and I hope to be His faithful servant to my dying hour."

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I agree. Since EbonyRose and possibly others are reading the book, I do not want to give away the storyline that occurs after Uncle Toms severe beating by Legree. Still, the death of Uncle Tom does bring the evils of slavery as viewed by Mrs. Stowe to a head.

So here are links to both Chapters 41 and 44 of Uncle Tom's Cabin. I will ask that EbonyRose not read them so as not to spoil the ending, unless she wants to. I present them in a attempt to answer Negrospiritual's question and to validate what Mr. Henson says about the Uncle Tom character being killed.....

Chapter 41
http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/ecp/10/223/0001/html/00010041.html

chapter 44
http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/ecp/10/223/0001/html/00010044.html

I really did not know this about Uncle Tom! Thanks for sharing it! Maybe I'll read it one day.

------------------------------
The Lord is on my side;I will not fear:what can man do unto me?
(Psalms 118:6)


If God brings you to it - He will bring you through it.

YES, I'm reading!! LOL

And thank you for your consideration in not spilling the beans!! I hate knowing the end (of a good book) before the end!! If it's a bad book, I usually do the cheating myself!!

This thread sounds like the self-indulgent commiseration of some brothers who've been labeled "U.T." themselves in the past.

I'm not interested in the historical genesis of the phrase. Language is organic. It grows and evolves. We all know what it means today.

Language is organic?? No, my friend, it is society's use of language that gives it life and causes it to grow and evolve. If a lie is allowed to "grow and evolve" into mutual acceptance, then you have ignorance.

I find your statements amazing. Yes, we all know what Uncle Tom means today, even though that meaning is totally false. Assuming you were born American, how can you allow your own history to be so twisted and distorted, or even forgotten?? Isn't that the very thing you accuse black conservatives of?

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. There are some more meaningful battles to fight on this board and this one could easly slide into a personal thing that won't be productive to either of us. That said, here are a few thoughts about your reply.

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:
Language is organic?? No, my friend, it is society's use of language that gives it life and causes it to grow and evolve.

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"Language is organic" = "it is society's usage of language that gives it life and causes it to grow and evolve".

quote:

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If a lie is allowed to "grow and evolve" into mutual acceptance, then you have ignorance.

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No, you have truth. Peception is reality. The reason why you and I are often on opposite sides of issues is not because either of us is any less or more sincere, intelligent, or principled. It is because we see things differently.

quote:

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Yes, we all know what Uncle Tom means today, even though that meaning is totally false.

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Under the guise of perception equals reality, if "we all know" what it means then how can it be "totally false". You know people used to think it was cool to burn witches. We now know differently.

quote:

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Assuming you were born American, how can you allow your own history to be so twisted and distorted, or even forgotten??

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B, Uncle Tom's Cabin is my history? IMO, this is but a point of trivia, if that.

quote:

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Isn't that the very thing you accuse black conservatives of?

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I guess this goes back to the "perception is reality" thing!

While Cabin may be based on events in Henson's life...(i have no way of disproving it), it is obviously not totally biographical since Stowe choose to have Uncle Tom killed, and chose to have him sacrificed...

in keeping with today's connotation of "uncle tom" as one who gives up his own to appease whites.


but there is an element of truth in what you say in Cabin in that he chooses a course out of love rather than self gain, unlike today's uncles and mammy's.

You seem to embrace the book, but are you bothered at all about Harriet Beecher Stowe's paternalistic, dehumanizing portrayal of blacks? Is her characterization of lighter blacks as more intelligent/superior to darker blacks troubling at all to you?

quote:

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Originally posted by Icon.....

You seem to embrace the book, but are you bothered at all about Harriet Beecher Stowe's paternalistic, dehumanizing portrayal of blacks? Is her characterization of lighter blacks as more intelligent/superior to darker blacks troubling at all to you?

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No. Mrs. Stowe was appalled by the whole slave industry and America's acceptance of it. Remember that the sole purpose of this book was to expose slavery for what it truly is....evil! I will even go so far to say that we would possibly still be slaves if not for this book-just my opinion.

I could apply your words to Affirmative Action or the Reparations movement just as well.

Just one little problem B. Bankins, I for one appreciate your re-statement of the accurate historical facts because like many black Americans you mentioned, I also didn't read the book. So my problem is not with the textual content of Uncle Toms Cabin, rather it is with your characterization "pitiful lack of quality education." I suppose I took issue with the statement because I too have mischaracterized Uncle Tom and defined the term to mean a black traitor to his race. Although today Uncle Tom is actually defined as a race traitor, the point in your short easy was to present the true meaning of Uncle Tom and show how meaning and definition change over time. Still, I could not help but wonder if my ignorance was due to a "pitiful lack of quality education"?

no one has discussed the use of a "pickaninny" known as "topsy" and from whence derives the term "topsy turvy".

No one has discussed the white child little eva and uncle tom's love for the white child which rivals his love for any other character in the book.


Uncle Tom had his flaws

My use of "pitiful lack of quality education" applies equally to myself as well. I never learned any of this during my school years. I even stated somewhere on this thread that my wife told me of Mr. Josiah Henson and I just started reading the book myself.

I have a real problem when so-called civil rights leaders like Julian Bond use the term Uncle Tom to describe black conservatives and no one sees anything wrong with this-most even applaud the discription.

But let my good friend whoop casually describe what is being said about black conservatives, and he is admonished by the forum administrator never to use "Uncle Tom" simply because it doesn't sound right comming from a white person. That's why I started this thread. At least now we have an idea who Uncle Tom really was.

Negrospiritual

You are correct. The Uncle Tom character in the book was not perfect, and the book does have its flaws. Interestingly enough, the opposition in those days attempted to use the flaws in Uncle Tom's Cabin to denounce it as pure fiction and not portraying the reality of the slave industry. The book was even banned in many parts of the South.

Mrs. Stowe then wrote "The Keys To Uncle Tom's Cabin" to document the atrocities of the slave trade and to silence the critics. Another fact I didn't learn in school.

Thanks to all for your responses.

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:

But let my good friend whoop casually describe what is being said about black conservatives, and he is admonished by the forum administrator never to use "Uncle Tom" simply because it doesn't sound right comming from a white person.

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I'm quite confused here B. This is the text you refer to.

quote:

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Originally posted by Whoopie:

Those that choose to think on their own, act on their own, be themselves, earn it themselves, become Their Own Man... have an Independent attitude, and hate being pigeon holed (forced) into a category... They are usually called "Uncle Toms"...

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quote:

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Originally posted by MBM

We missed you Whoop! With all due respect, your characterization, description, and use of the phrase "Uncle Tom" here is not only extraordinarily off-base, it is offensive as well.

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B, what specifically do you take issue with about what "the forum administrator" said? Can you understand how someone not of your political camp might perceive Whoopie's comment as a slur about black Democrats? Admonishment to "never use the word again"?

Further, if you don't see the racial implications of who uses the word - then you may be letting your politics color your thinking on this. You see no difference in whether a white person calls one an "Uncle Tom" or a black person? Really?

Here's an entire posts dedicated to explaining my post above to Whoopie that you may not have seen. It sheds considerable light about my thoughts beyond "not sounding right" .

quote:

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Originally posted by Whoopie:

And _if_ it is offensive coming from _me_, imagine how it must be felt coming from a so-called "brotha"...

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No, I'd much rather be called 'Uncle Tom' by someone black. I'd feel that they had some standing or basis to call me that. It hurts more from someone black, but it angers me more from someone not black.

My problem with it here is a mixture of the following:

You use it within the context of describing anyone that is liberal or a Democrat as intellectually, politically, and professionally lazy. This just because blacks are currently overwhelmingly Democrat. Are the wealthy also "not thinking on their own", "not being their own people", and allowing themselves to be "pigeon-holed" because they are overwhelmingly Republican?

It is a part of the feeble argument that suggests that blacks are somehow not able to vote any way other than Democrat. BTW - this argument conveniently takes conservatives off the hook to actually work for black Americas votes. As I've noted a number of times elsewhere, this argument is just factually wrong since _as a block_ we shifted from being Republican (the Party of Lincoln) to Democrat with FDR.

By using the epithet "Uncle Tom" here, which alludes to being anti-black, you are now linking into the old and disengenuous 'anti-success' argument that is destructive and serves no positive purpose in our community.

Anyway - Whoopie - again, and with all due respect, only an aggrieved white man could say that blacks have it better in a society made by and for white males. Just becuase not every white male is Daddy Warbucks does not mean that the game isn't rigged for him and against others.

Finally, and to the original point of your thread here, I also don't quite understand the relevance of the historical "lineage" of the phrase to current usage. Do you know that the phrase was originally used by whites to characterize other whites as "nigger lovers"? How does that historical bit affect your perceptions of the word? It doesn't mine.




Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by MBM on October 02, 2002 at 08:47 AM.]

if you take into consideration that Stowe's Tom loved the white child eva but never really showed compassion toward the black child Topsy who is characterized as willful and ignorant while eva is apparently the epitome of light and goodness

thus he loved whiteness more than blackness

in keeping with today's connotation of "uncle tom"


the same as "mammy" figures were portrayed as loving their white families to the point of crying when they cried, nursing their children with their breast milk, and lovingly protecting white progeny

all the while

ignoring their own

Uncle and Mammy have never been titles of honor and adulation.

quote:

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Originally posted by MBM.....

B, what specifically do you take issue with about what "the forum administrator" said? Can you understand how someone not of your political camp might perceive Whoopie's comment as a slur about black Democrats? Admonishment to "never use the word again"?

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Was there anything untrue or inaccurate about whoop's statement?? We Just had a NAACP convention not long ago in Houston Texas where Julian Bond blasted any black person who dares call themself a Republican or conservative. This was no "slur" about black Dems. It was the truth.

Right here in my hometown of Baltimore City, the Republican candidate for governor showed up at Morgan University, a virtually all-black college with his running mate, a black republican, for a debate with the Democrat candidate.

Mr. Steele, the black republican candidate, was soundly booed by the pro-Democrat audience, and Oreo cookies were passed out among the crowd. I will spare you the other expletives shouted from the Morgan mob.

quote:

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Originally posted by MBM.....

Further, if you don't see the racial implications of who uses the word - then you may be letting your politics color your thinking on this. You see no difference in whether a white person calls one an "Uncle Tom" or a black person? Really?

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This is what I take issue with. The phrase "Uncle Tom" is almost exclusively used by blacks to insult other blacks. Whites rarely use the term. As I demonstrated with this thread, the term has no meaning or relevance to the historical facts, and is used in ignorance....whether or not it's a white person or black person using it. I find it interesting that you will use historical facts to defend Affirmative Action and Reparations, but choose to ignor and/or invalidate those facts when it comes to Uncle Tom and its usage.

quote:

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Originally posted by MBM....

Finally, and to the original point of your thread here, I also don't quite understand the relevance of the historical "lineage" of the phrase to current usage. Do you know that the phrase was originally used by whites to characterize other whites as "nigger lovers"? How does that historical bit affect your perceptions of the word? It doesn't mine.

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Again, Uncle Tom's Cabin had nothing to do with "nigger lovers", "black traitors", or anything else other than a man who endured the hardships of slavery, and what slavery was really like in America. This fine book started the abolitionist movement to end slavery in this country, and to question it's historical relevance to the current usage of the Uncle Tom phrase is mind-boggling to me.

Oh, and of course my politics colors my thinking just as yours does. You would not make a blanket statement that the wealthy only support Republicans, (they support both parties equally) if this was not true.

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:
This fine book started the abolitionist movement to end slavery in this country, and to question it's historical relevance to the current usage of the Uncle Tom phrase is mind-boggling to me.

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Yeah - Ben Franklin (d. 1790) was really moved by Uncle Tom's Cabin! Abolitionism was alive and well 100+ years before the book even came out.


Onward and Upward!

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:

You would not make a blanket statement that the wealthy only support Republicans, (they support both parties equally) if this was not true.

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So 50% of the wealthy are Democrats? Do you really believe this?


Onward and Upward!

quote:

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Originally posted by MBM:

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:

You would not make a blanket statement that the wealthy only support Republicans, (they support both parties equally) if this was not true.

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So 50% of the wealthy are Democrats? Do you _really_ believe this?


Onward and Upward!

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Some of the wealthiest people in Congress are Democrats (socialists). Jon Corzine of NJ, Ted Kennedy of MA, and others. I used to believe the liberal lie that onlt rich people where Republicans, but after witnessing the "limousine liberals" in action is one of many reasons why I think liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the PLANET!!! I.E. The "hollywood crowd". Need I say more?????


True about Ben Franklin, but if you want to go that far back, then you must state the Quakers of the late 1600's were the original abolitionists. Bankins is correct in that the abolitionist movement proper started aroung the 1830's/'40's. Did you say that Bankins???

quote:

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Originally posted by IndependentMan:
I think liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the PLANET!!! I.E. The "hollywood crowd". Need I say more?????

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Yeah - I think you do need to say more. Why are they hypocrites? Certainly they aren't hypocrites about taxes. Those wealthy liberals believe that they should be taxed and end up paying for their beliefs.

In what way are they hypocritical? Please school me.

BB said:

quote:

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Right here in my hometown of Baltimore City, the Republican candidate for governor showed up at Morgan University, a virtually all-black college with his running mate, a black republican, for a debate with the Democrat candidate.

Mr. Steele, the black republican candidate, was soundly booed by the pro-Democrat audience, and Oreo cookies were passed out among the crowd. I will spare you the other expletives shouted from the Morgan mob.

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1. Black Conservatives are not trying to change Black thought but appear to be USED by White Conservatives to proclaim White Conservative ideas in Black Face.

2. It appears that each and every idea a Black Conservative have were adopted from White Conservatives.

3. Black conservatives do not involve themselves with Black oriented organizations. Such as the NAACP and the Urban League. If Black Conservatives want to be the catalyst for change in the Black Community, it must be done from inside the Black community. If you are not willing to rub elbows with those in the Black Community then Black Conservative will never make any impact on Black thought. And viewed with disgrace by Black people in general.

4. Black Conservatives rarely speak out in the interest of Black people.

5. White Conservatives take Black Conservatives for granted i.e. JC Watts. Republicans did not even take care of the ONLY BLACK REPUBLICAN IN WASHINGTON, that was shameful and personally it hurt my trust in Republicans in general. Blacks see no advantage being a Black Conservative.

6. Black Conservatives appear of not doing much in the Black community.

7. In general Black Conservatives never Blame White America for the horrible Wrongs done to Black America, they appear to be apologist for them or silent. There are examples on this board, when I laid out my argument regarding Affirmative Action not one self-proclaimed Black Conservative had a thing to say. Black Conservatives do not give credit to Black issues when they are righteous but remain silent. However, Colin Powell stood before White Conservatives at a Republican Convention and told them like it was and got booed by White Republicans. I was so proud of Colin that I went out and bought his book.
BB I did see your topic about how the Black Farmer was and is being screwed, I who have black family who are still in the farming business appreciated it and was surprised that you had any interest in that subject. That was a rarity indeed from one who claim to be Black a Conservative.

8. Black Conservatives appear to be White apologists.

9. When racist shiyt hits the fan against Black people Black Conservatives are nowhere to be found.

10. Black conservatives need to get that word conservative off the label because to most black people the word conservative have racist connotations. Conservative means to leave things as they were, black people want CHANGE.

11. Black Conservatives rarely take white people to the woodshed when they say stupid things but remain silent but will jump all over black people over trivial matters.

12. Black Conservative appear to be empty of ideas that focus on helping the Black community.

13. Black Conservatives appear to be ashamed of being Black.

[This message was edited by JuneBug on October 03, 2002 at 09:00 AM.]

JuneBug - that's some powerful stuff! You laid it out. Of course, you'll be roasted as a liberal (maybe even Communist) hypocrite (their favorite word). But much props to you brother!!!

PROPS!!

For Junebug for providing a good working definition of the Black conservatives.

quote:

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Originally posted by JuneBug:
BB said:

quote:

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Right here in my hometown of Baltimore City, the Republican candidate for governor showed up at Morgan University, a virtually all-black college with his running mate, a black republican, for a debate with the Democrat candidate.

Mr. Steele, the black republican candidate, was soundly booed by the pro-Democrat audience, and Oreo cookies were passed out among the crowd. I will spare you the other expletives shouted from the Morgan mob.

---

1. Black Conservatives are not trying to change Black thought but appear to be USED by White Conservatives to proclaim White Conservative ideas in Black Face.

2. It appears the each and every idea a Black Conservative have were adopted from White Conservatives.

3. Black conservatives do not involve themselves with Black oriented organizations. Such as the NAACP and the Urban League. If Black Conservatives want to be the catalyst for change in the Black Community, it must be done from inside the Black community. If you are not willing to rub elbows with those in the Black Community then Black Conservative will never make any impact on Black thought. And viewed with disgrace by Black people in general.

4. Black Conservatives rarely speak out in the interest of Black people.

5. White Conservatives take Black Conservatives for granted i.e. JC Watts. Republicans did not even take care of the ONLY BLACK REPUBLICAN IN WASHINGTON, that was shameful and personally it hurt my trust in Republicans in general. Blacks see no advantage being a Black Conservative.

6. Black Conservatives appear of not doing much in the Black community.

7. In general Black Conservatives never Blame White America for the horrible Wrongs done to Black America, they appear to be apologist for them or silent. There are examples on this board, when I laid out my argument regarding Affirmative Action not one self-proclaimed Black Conservative had a thing to say. Black Conservatives do not give credit to Black issues when they are righteous but remain silent. However, Colin Powell stood before White Conservatives at a Republican Convention and told them like it was and got booed by White Republicans. I was so proud of Colin that I went out and bought his book.
BB I did see your post about how the Black Farmer was and is screwed, I who have black family who are still in the farming business appreciated it and was surprised that you had any interest in that subject. That was a rarity indeed from those who claim to be Black Conservative.

8. Black Conservatives appear to be White apologists.

9. When racist shiyt hits the fan against Black people Black Conservatives are nowhere to be found.

10. Black conservatives need to get that word conservative off the label because to most black people the word conservative have racist connotations. Conservative means to leave things as they were, black people want CHANGE.

11. Black Conservatives rarely take white people to the woodshed when they say stupid things but remain silent but will jump all over black people over trivial matters.

12. Black Conservative appear to be empty of ideas that focus on helping the Black community.

13. Black Conservatives appear to be ashamed of being Black.

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Conservative friends - I know you'll take issue with this. Could we use this as an opportunity to reasonably address perceptions/stereotypes instead of allowing this to turn into something less productive (which no doubt is where this thread is going if not salvaged quickly! ) ? Personally, I've been searching for a better understanding of the genesis of black conservatism. Maybe we can get at some of this here?


Onward and Upward!

i'm going to try to copy this to a completely new thread!


Onward and Upward!

Cool



I do believe there are Republican/Conservative ideas that can benefit black people but the problem is the image Republicans project toward Black people has cause most black people to reject Republican ideas no matter what the benefit it may mean to Black America.

I also believe that many of the ideas Democrats have can hurt us as a Black community. The Democratic goal is to make black people MORE dependent on Government. I want Black people to work towards economic, intellectual and cultural independence. I want Black people to depend on Black people in what will cause us to rise above our circumstances and history in America. With or without Democrats or Republicans, with or without Liberals or Conservatives.

Thanks, JuneBug

A few simple questions -

You're willing to acknowledge the influence that the book (NOT THE MAN) had on abolitionism, but not on language? Why?

Since you love the book so, you're obviously OK that Harriet took fictional license with the story (ABOUT THE MAN), but yet you are only interested in the real life of the man, not the protagonist of the book (ABOUT THE MAN? Why?

You've yet to answer the question about why you're OK with Stowe's racist/dehumanizing depictions of blacks, as well as her favor of lighter skin blacks over darker? Why?

Is it becuase you are more interested in protecting whatever personal interests you have on this issue, as well as holding on to your pathetic argument, than in understanding the truth?

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:
Again, Uncle Tom's Cabin had nothing to do with "nigger lovers", "black traitors", or anything else other than a man who endured the hardships of slavery, and what slavery was really like in America.

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Really? Don't believe anyone here. Check the article and the included [URL=the reference]reference[/URL]for yourself.

Here's a quote -

There is also the book's contribution to the American lexicon, which youth are more likely to know about rather than the story's role in antebellum America.

The phrase "Uncle Tom" initially emerged as an insult directed by whites toward other whites who were sympathetic to the plight of slaves, according to The Color of Words, An Encyclopedic Dictionary of Ethnic Bias in the United States, by Philip Herbst.

In the 1940s, blacks lobbed it at other blacks who appeared to be overly deferential to whites. An "Uncle Tom" meant a sell-out or traitor. And through the decades, it continued to be hurled at public figures "” novelist Ellison; boxer Joe Frazier (by Muhammad Ali); U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

quote:

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Originally posted by Icon:

quote:

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Originally posted by IndependentMan:
I think liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the PLANET!!! I.E. The "hollywood crowd". Need I say more?????

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Yeah - I think you do need to say more. Why are they hypocrites? Certainly they aren't hypocrites about taxes. Those wealthy liberals believe that they _should_ be taxed and end up paying for their beliefs.

In what way are they hypocritical? Please school me.

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Sure!!! If you really think liberals like John Corzine, Kennedy, and other wealthy liberals pay "their fair share of taxes", then I have bridge between Brooklyn and Manhattan to sell you. The tax code needs to be re-written. Most Republicans oppose this as just about every Democrat. But the Democrats use the class warefare game everytime a tax cut or a proposal for the flat tax. How much do you think we should be taxed??? Right now, I am paying WAY too much!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will fight any liberal (or anyone else) who wants to put their grubby hands in my wallet to take more of MY MONEY!!!!!!

Liberals live by the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. The liberals on the Upper West Side for example talk about the homeless, go to demonstrations. Let's say you want to form a homeless shelter on the Upper West Side and then now see how liberal these people really are. You see, people are liberal as long as they can stay a distance from the cause they are championing. It's more a "feel good emotion" than anything else. This is with wealthy liberals....hollywood. Granted I think they are well intentioned.

Liberals are hypocrites about education. Wealthy liberals send their kids to elite private schools....Jesse Jackson, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, just about ALL of them. The best way to support something is to actually do it yourself. If you champion public schools, it would do well to set the example and send your own kids to these schools. Just my opinion. If I do an advertisement saying how good Chevy's are and I really drive a BMW, what would that tell you??? Most people would say that would be rather hypocritcal.

I can go on, and I will.....later

He broke it down. I can't wait to weigh in on this on the other thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by IndependentMan:
Liberals live by the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

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I'm gagging on the rhetoric. Nevertheless, you've said what Liberals are about, what about conservatives? You're saying they're just more honest about their avarice and contempt for anyone else, is that it?

Thanks, buddy. The idea that the rich only support Republicans is so ridiculous I just refused to digify it with an answer. I guess all those (rich) Hollywood lefties must mistaken Bill and Hillary Clinton for Republicans.

Also, the abolitionist movement gained major steam when Mrs. Stowe's book was published and read throughout America. As Lincoln stated, that book started the Civil War.

As for Junebug's statement Justifying errant behavior, I'll address that in Mr. MBM's new thread. Junebug is a friend that has known me online for a while and I respect his opinions. I will not bash or belittle his remarks. Sorry to disapoint Icon and others, but I stand by my white friends just like I do my black friends.

See you all on the new thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by B Bankins:
The idea that the rich only support Republicans is so ridiculous I just refused to digify it with an answer.

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First, no one said that. It's a "rule of thumb", similar in form to the one that you regurgitate about blacks and the Democratic party.

I'll find the demographics, but do you think that the generalization about Republicans and Democrats being parties for the "haves" and the "have nots" is really pure fiction? Of course there are notable exceptions to the rule. You, no doubt, are one of them!

So BB, are you really serious about this or have you just put your foot so deep in your mouth that you can't get it out? Maybe you can get Whoopie or john doe to fetch it for you!

Ah, it took a lil digging up the past, but I've come full circle with a shared opinion. B. Bankins is still on point....3 years later!

What Dr. Claud wrote in 1989 "Black Labor, White Wealth" was old news, of course, but few blaqs picked up his book and absorbed his well-researched findings concerning 'Uncle Tom.'

Fine

Good thing that "B Bankins" guy is gone, he seemed like a predecessor to Con-Feed.

He never did answer that list of on-point decriptions of Black Conservatives by Junebug.

That was a very interestng exchange.

Clearly, those who want to 'see' will.

Those who don't, won't.

I think the term is being used appropriately.

The term is intended to described the behavior of the character to achieve his goals. I know that behavior was common into my lifetime.

The dark side of that behavior is when the goals are less noble such as to betray others, to be servile to simply please, to advance oneself at the expense of others like you.

All of those behaviors are included in The DeGruy-Leary Effect.

'Tom' is 'Tom' good or bad.

PEACE

Jim Chester

PEACE

Jim Chester