The True History of Malcolm X & the NOI

We are supposed to believe that this biased view is more objective than any others?

I bought some mohammed Speaks newspapers when I was in grammar school. I learned about their mythology. My thought than was, "How could anybody believe this nonsense." So I confess I have a doubtful attitude about anyone that would join the NOI, including Malcolm X.

At least he had sense enough to break with them.

umbra [8]

quote:

Originally posted by umbrarchist:

We are supposed to believe that this biased view is more objective than any others?

That's clearly, directly... ridiculously out of whack with what was said:

quote:

Abdul Wazir Muhammad (AWM), 74, a long time NOI minister who met Malcolm X in the late 1950s and worked with, learned from and grew to love him, offers another perspective on the man that is not often presented.

There were clearly NO claims to be "more objective", just that, to this point, few if any of the people who have written about Malcolm X have actually lived with, worked with or known him, on a personal level.

That you would pose such a question, making such a baseless statement and the go on to, perhaps unwittingly, list your very own biased view... Well, that just shows how you didn't have enough sense to say something that made sense.

quote:

Anyway... thanks for the info. 1Mile

quote:

you're welcome Nmaginate and THANK YOU for attempting to enlighten those who apparently would rather stay in the dark. your response was well stated and on point!

oh .......... umbra, out of curiosity, did you even read the article/interview? thank you for answering 'yes' or 'no.'

It has, of course, been objectively determined that a Black scientist evolved White people.

It is my bias that keeps me from acknowledging this FACT.



Did you notice that the title of this thread is, "The True History of Malcom X & the NOI"? Can it even vaguely resemble truth without approaching objectivity?

umbrarchist [33]

once again umbra, did you even read what you're attempting to comment on and argue about?

one thing about it, the brother speaking has got to be more objective than you because he actually knew malcolm - you didn't. so how would you know what was objective and what wasn't?

and if you think that most of what you have read about malcolm has NOT been biased, then you're in sadder shape than your tantrum here indicates.

please wake up!

I assume everything is biased, it is the degree and ridiculousness of bias that matters. I already said the fact that Malcolm even joined the NOI makes me wonder about him.

I notice you don't say anything about the NOI's mythology. What does that say about the objectivity of everyone ever involved in the organization?

Talk about waking up.

umbra [41]

for the THIRD time - did you even read the article umbra?

good god amighty!

as far as NOI mythology - what does that have to do with the information in the interview ... the interview that you didn't even read and yet are all up in the discussion. what are you afraid of?

the NOI teaches that white people were grafted out of black people .. you know grafting, the scientific process that white folks are utilizing today in their labs? if you think that is mythology what is your explanation for how white people came to be on the planet?

let's hear it.

Are you a member of the NOI?

umbrarchist

quote:

Originally posted by 1milehi:the NOI teaches that white people were grafted out of black people .. you know grafting, the scientific process that white folks are utilizing today in their labs? if you think that is mythology what is your explanation for how white people came to be on the planet?

let's hear it.

... and something about a mothership full of black scientists orbiting the earth? Which Farrakhan has claimed to have been on?

LOL

you want me to answer all of your questions but for some reason .... fear, intimidation, *shrug*, you don't want to answer mine.

if you don't want to answer mine or anyone else's, why are you in this thread? i have no more answers for you until you can be forthcoming with some of your own.

what are you afraid of? so afraid that you can't even read a harmless article but are all up in here trying to get other people to disregard what you THINK is in it. where is the logic in that? (don't worry umbra, you don't have to answer that, it's a rhetorical question).

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:
... and something about a mothership full of black scientists orbiting the earth? Which Farrakhan has claimed to have been on?

yes there is teaching of a mother plane (never said to have been full of "black" scientists). and min. farrakhan has often talked about a "vision" he had years ago. yes? what of it?

what does all this have to do with the topic of this thread?

quote:

Malcolm's great ability - a blessing and a curse

He had a problem, [however], and that was having this great big head, this great big mind. Oftentimes, he assumed leadership position that he didn't really have.

quote:

what are you afraid of? so afraid that you can't even read a harmless article but are all up in here trying to get other people to disregard what you THINK is in it. where is the logic in that? (don't worry umbra, you don't have to answer that, it's a rhetorical question).

I have heard this egoistic crap about being afraid, before and before and before... YAWN! I grew up in Chicago. Malcom X was shot shortly before my 13th birthday. I have met and talked to Black Muslims. The way you sound it might even have been before you were born. You and that article aren't saying anything new to me. From watching videos of Malcolm and stuff I have read I find it difficult to understand why someone of his intelligence got involved with them. I remember being impressed by a Black Muslim restaurant when I was a kid and I could see working with them on a strictly economic basis, but I would want nothing to do with the religion.

umbra [68]

OK .. I read it ... What am I supposed to be getting from this? ... that the real Malcolm had a mind of his own ... and that's why the NOI had to blow him away ... even though he was so well loved by them?

As Umbra said, it's surprising that someone so intelligent would have joined in the first place.

okay umbra - you still never directly answered the question - but okay. you have issues with the NOI and that is very clear by the way you have conducted yourself in this thread.

do your thing!!! i don't have time for the runaround and just for the record, you never did come up with a better explanation for how white people came to be on the planet. ;-)

you reject NOI "mythology" but isn't it true that you accept much of the white man's mythology, tales, explanations, etc.? and without question too, but you have a problem with NOI teachings. why? because they came from people who look like you and the white man doesn't give his approval of them?

quote:

Originally posted by 1milehi:
you reject NOI "mythology" but isn't it true that you accept much of the white man's mythology, tales, explanations, etc.? and without question too, but you have a problem with NOI teachings. why? because they came from people who look like you and the white man doesn't give his approval of them?

Why is it that the only defense the NOI has for its tales (that I've heard time and time again) is "well, nigga, you'll believe the white man's tales..." ?????

Is that really the best that can be done?

honest brother, i asked you what your question (about the motherplane) had to do with the article. you come back talking about "okay, i read it. what am i supposed to get out of it?"

LOL

you have issues with the NOI too and like i told umbra, do your thing! the silliness is too much for me. nobody asked either one of you to come in here .... but here you are talking about "what am i supposed to get out of it." all i can do right about now is LOL @ you two.

what a shame! and you "know" the NOI "blew away" malcolm - how? were you there or do you take the white man's word, i.e. mythology for gospel truth while at the same time criticizing your own black people for the same thing?

quote:

you reject NOI "mythology" but isn't it true that you accept much of the white man's mythology, tales, explanations, etc.? and without question too,

You can believe I accept anything if you want.

Example: I worked for IBM for 4 years. They came out with a machine called a Datamaster 23 which replaced another machine, the 5100. I wanted to know how much faster the new machine was than the old one. I assumed the new one was faster. I wrote my own benchmarks and keyed them in and tested both machines myself. The old machine was almost twice as fast as the new one in both benchmarks.

The only reason I trust White people to tell me the time of day is because it is so easy to check. I have caught White people hiding information from other White people so often it ain't funny. I remember when I was a kid thinking how silly it was for the NOI to go aound talking, "The White Man is The Devil." But the more I have learned the more I have thought, "The White Man isn't the Devil, he isn't smart enough, but the Devil is his Prince. The Prince of LIARS.

The trouble with the NOI is they expect everyone to get emotional about this crap rather adopt cold calculating warfare tactics. Sun Tzu is more my style than either Farrakhan or Malcolm, though I'd sooner listen to Malcolm.

Evolution isn't something that can be tested and repeated like physics experiments so I can't say I know evolution is the case like I know how trnsistors work, but I regard it as an adequate explanation. The palefces have acknowledged they evolved from Africans. At least the ones with functioning brains. ROFL

umbrarchist [100]

ps - I conclude you are in the NOI.

http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

quote:

Originally posted by umbrarchist:

quote:

you reject NOI "mythology" but isn't it true that you accept much of the white man's mythology, tales, explanations, etc.? and without question too,

You can believe I accept anything if you want.

Example: I worked for IBM for 4 years. They came out with a machine called a Datamaster 23 which replaced another machine, the 5100. I wanted to know how much faster the new machine was than the old one. I assumed the new one was faster. I wrote my own benchmarks and keyed them in and tested both machines myself. The old machine was almost twice as fast as the new one in both benchmarks.

The only reason I trust White people to tell me the time of day is because it is so easy to check. I have caught White people hiding information from other White people so often it ain't funny. I remember when I was a kid thinking how silly it was for the NOI to go aound talking, "The White Man is The Devil." But the more I have learned the more I have thought, "The White Man isn't the Devil, he isn't smart enough, but the Devil is his Prince. The Prince of LIARS.

The trouble with the NOI is they expect everyone to get emotional about this crap rather adopt cold calculating warfare tactics. Sun Tzu is more my style than either Farrakhan or Malcolm, though I'd sooner listen to Malcolm.

Evolution isn't something that can be tested and repeated like physics experiments so I can't say I know evolution is the case like I know how trnsistors work, but I regard it as an adequate explanation. The palefces have acknowledged they evolved from Africans. At least the ones with functioning brains. ROFL

umbrarchist

ps - I conclude you are in the NOI.

http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

umbra, since you never directly answered my question, i won't be answering yours but you can conclude whatever you would like.

other than that, there are plenty of intelligent people who support the NOI, and believe NOI teachings - that should tell people something right there.

just because you can't relate to them doesn't mean anything other than to yourself and it's arrogant of you and/or honest brother to think otherwise. like you two speak for all black people.

malcolm x was no dummy and he would not have been the man that he turned out to be without NOI influence in his life. that should tell people something right there.

but you carry on and i hope you don't bust a blood vessel spitting blood & venom over your disdain for the nation. life is too short and i'm sure you have plenty of other things to be concerned with.

I LOVE MALCOM, AND I LOVE THE MINISTER, NOT BECAUSE OF HIS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS LOVE FOR HIS PEOPLE. ITS EASY TO POINT TO PEOPLES FLAWS, WE ALL HAVE THEM WE ARE HUMAN. I LOOK AT A MANS DEEDS, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF? THATS THE QUESTION. I CAN SEE HOW SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER HAD A FATHER,NEVER HAD ANYONE TO LOVE THEM , SEELING DOPE, ROBBING PEOPLE WOULD JOIN THE NATION. SOMETIMES WHEN YOUR IN THE DARK A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT IS BETTER THAN NO LIGHT. ITS ALL A PROCESS, BUT ONE THING CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE NATION, THEY REFORM THE DOWNTROTTEN, THE CAST ASIDE, THOSE EVERYONE ELSE RUNS FROM, AND GIVES THEM A SENSE OF PRIDE AND SELF RESPECT THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE HUMAN BEINGS.

TO BRUSH MALCOM OFF ONE OF OUR PREMIRE INTELLECTS IS SAD. ISLAM WAS HIS RELIGION , IT BROUGHT HIM OUT OF THE DARKNESS, BUT HE WAS BY FAR A PAN AFRICANIST AND BLACK NATIONALIST IN HIS IDEOLOGY.

quote:

Originally posted by umbrarchist:
It has, of course, been objectively determined that a Black scientist evolved White people.

It is my bias that keeps me from acknowledging this FACT.

No, it was your STUPIDITY that evolves from your bias (your desire to berate the NOI) that had you stumbling over yourself saying something that showed how you obviously DON'T READ!

And your Title problems only goes to show that you're stupid enough to Judge A Book By It's Cover... Or the title of the thread which had little to do with the book itself or any of the claims the book or the author actually makes.

Your comments were not about 1Miles title. So, I'm laughing @ U.

quote:

Your comments were not about 1Miles title. So, I'm laughing @ U.

Be my guest.

The NOI doesn't need me or anyone else to berate it.

It is quite self sufficient.

umbra

quote:

Originally posted by umbrarchist:

quote:

Your comments were not about 1Miles title. So, I'm laughing @ U.

Be my guest.

The NOI doesn't need me or anyone else to berate it.

It is quite self sufficient.

umbra

And you don't need me to berate you. You do a damn good job of that yourself.

But go ahead and ask another stupid rhetorical question just to make a pure a$$ out of yourself. I mean, it's really not that hard to read a couple of paragraphs. You came off half-cocked only to get dropped by a little carefully placed sentence that DEBUNKS the very line of BS you let come out your mouth.

Now, here's my rhetorical question for you:
Yacub? Is he yo' daddy?

Cause you sho' act like a BIG HEAD mad anti-scientist with the crazy stuff you dream up.

i read the article, yet i don't see any new info here. it affirms things which have been said in the past re: brother malcolm. basically it re-iterates the contention that his ego was his downfall and implies that his death was somehow his own fault.

what is new about this?

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
i read the article, yet i don't see any new info here. it affirms things which have been said in the past re: brother malcolm. basically it re-iterates the contention that his ego was his downfall and implies that his death was somehow his own fault.

what is new about this?

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
i read the article, yet i don't see any new info here. it affirms things which have been said in the past re: brother malcolm. basically it re-iterates the contention that his ego was his downfall and implies that his death was somehow his own fault.

what is new about this?

there is plenty "new" in the article, particularly the specific recollections that the brother had about his personal contact with malcolm. his perspective on the impact malcolm had on the lives of bro. jabril and min. farrakhan .... there's plenty "new," in the piece, that i know some of you have never read or heard about before. the thing is, if you go in with a closed mind, looking for what you've seen before and with a predetermined response to what you're going to read - you won't come out of it with anything but what you went in to find. IMO.

there's plenty of new information and perspective there, but honest brother asked, "what am i supposed to be getting out of this?" my answer is - if you didn't get anything out of it, maybe it wasn't meant for you to get anything out of it. there are plenty of others who are gaining from the info so that speaks for itself.

maybe it's just not for you to get anything from it, the benefit of the piece is therefore for other people. *shrug* and hopefully, no one is bothered or intimidated by that.

this comment was made in the interview:

quote:

... The press, they were so slick and used to write all the time, "Malcolm X and his Black Muslims." Malcolm didn't have no Black Muslims, Malcolm was a Black Muslim that was had by Elijah Muhammad but this is a separation they were setting up....

the brother also talked about how, even tho it was "stroke of genius" that malcolm's autobiography has been made required reading in all black studies programs, that also has played a part in keeping a separation going. primarily because the book not only makes malcolm a hero but at the same time drops innuendos that the NOI and elijah muhammad had a hand in his death.

i hope we all have enough intelligence to know that if the government and the powers that be had any actual facts and knowledge that the NOI was responsible, it would have been brought out by now - and looooooong before now.

as it stands, the "white man" has been very successful in his job of dropping a seed then stepping back and watching the "negros" fight over that which was dropped. and it's still going on 40 years later .... which is a shame.

some want to call anyone who speaks from the NOI angle, "biased" and "unobjective" but all of what they are going on is based on the biased and unobjective work of "the white man" who is the one who manufactured the anti-NOI image of malcolm in the first place.

those who accept the golden image of malcolm - even tho they never knew him - act as tho everything the brother did was on point. well, clearly it wasn't. no matter how awesome malcolm was, he was not perfect and everything that went "wrong" in his relationship with the NOI was not any & everybody else's fault but his. he has to bear some of the responsibility for certain things.

for instance, after all the training he received in the NOI about security and checking for weapons prior to meetings, why did he choose - HE CHOOSE - to not allow searches that day at the audobon ballroom? was that the NOI's fault or should the responsibility for that decision be placed on him and whoever was around him telling him it was a good idea?

but "the white man" would have us to believe that everything that went wrong for malcolm was the fault of other people. sadly, some black people are glad to go along with the mythology and allow that to keep a separation going that really doesn't need to be there.

quote:

OK .. I read it ... What am I supposed to be getting from this? ... that the real Malcolm had a mind of his own ... and that's why the NOI had to blow him away ... even though he was so well loved by them?

I agree with this sentiment.

I read the article... critically. Considering that the article was written to dispell the mythology offered by people who teach about Malcolm but did not know him, you would think there would be some NEW information about Malcolm offered to the reader. There was not.

Personally... I am very attracted to the NOI and the New Black Panther Party for that matter. But I am not the kind of brother who can be lead by men... march in a line... wear para military clothing... wear a bow tie while selling newspapers at the traffic light... get permission to date... And I don't have the time to run and check in with some other cat who knows less than I before I speak publically.

Malcolm was bigger than the NOI. And there is absolutely nothing wrong in saying that.

quote:

The press, they were so slick and used to write all the time, "Malcolm X and his Black Muslims." Malcolm didn't have no Black Muslims, Malcolm was a Black Muslim that was had by Elijah Muhammad but this is a separation they were setting up....

AND?

What did the behavior of the press have to do with MALCOLM?

quote:

ISLAM WAS HIS RELIGION , IT BROUGHT HIM OUT OF THE DARKNESS, BUT HE WAS BY FAR A PAN AFRICANIST AND BLACK NATIONALIST IN HIS IDEOLOGY.

EXACTLY...

And you did not need to prepare Malcolm's dry cleaning to see this point.

quote:

if the government and the powers that be had any actual facts and knowledge that the NOI was responsible, it would have been brought out by now - and looooooong before now.

http://www.criticalreading.com/malcolm.htm

quote:

The man with the shotgun, identified by police as 22-year-old Talmadge Hayer of Paterson, N.J., dashed down a side aisle to the stairway exit from the second floor ballroom. From the landing, one of Malcolm's bodyguards winged him in the thigh with a .45-caliber slug. Howling in pursuit ("Kill the bastard!"), the ballroom crowd caught Hayer on the sidewalk, mauled him, and broke his ankle before police rescued him.

Hayer was charged with homicide. Five days later, police picked up a karate-trained Muslim enforcer, Norman 3X Butler, 26, as suspect No. 2.

I saw a television interview of Hayer in prison long, long ago in which he admitted killing Malcolm but he said that the two other men who were convicted with him had nothing to do with it, but he wouldn't say who the guilty ones were. If I was in prison with him and I hadn't done it I would be trying to kill his a$$.

In everyones life there are important and trivial details. People don't always agree on what those trivial details were. I regard the ones you are mentioning as trivial and not worth my time reading. I jumped around skimming parts of that article but I saw nothing to indicate it was worth my time reading completely. I was not about to read it just to prove anything to you. I am glad an independent party told you like it was but I don't expect it to change your perspective. I learned long ago that NOI fanatics are like that. The emotional stress of Black life in America can do this to people and that is what I presume happened to Malcolm for a while, and that is why he got involved with the NOI.

I'm sure Farrakahn must love playing second fiddle to a dead man that can never go away.

Bruce Perry also did a biography which I have read.
http://www.stationhill.org/perry.html
Personally I take for granted there will be greater objectivity from someone not in the NOI.

umbrarchist

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
AND?

What did the behavior of the press have to do with MALCOLM?

i don't know. who said the press' behavior had anything to do with malcolm. what was said was this:

quote:

...this is a separation they were setting up...

that was the point. it was also pointed out that the separation continues to this day .... decades after malcolm x has passed on.

on another note, it is said that malcolm was feeding info to the press which indicates that the behavior of the press, in some instances, had a lot to do with malcolm.

quote:

Originally posted by 1milehi:

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
i read the article, yet i don't see any new info here. it affirms things which have been said in the past re: brother malcolm. basically it re-iterates the contention that his ego was his downfall and implies that his death was somehow his own fault.

what is new about this?

there is plenty "new" in the article, particularly the specific recollections that the brother had about his personal contact with malcolm. his perspective on the impact malcolm had on the lives of bro. jabril and min. farrakhan .... there's plenty "new," in the piece, that i know some of you have never read or heard about before. the thing is, if you go in with a closed mind, looking for what you've seen before and with a predetermined response to what you're going to read - you won't come out of it with anything but what you went in to find. IMO.

there's plenty of new information and perspective there, but honest brother asked, "what am i supposed to be getting out of this?" my answer is - if you didn't get anything out of it, maybe it wasn't meant for you to get anything out of it. there are plenty of others who are gaining from the info so that speaks for itself.

maybe it's just not for you to get anything from it, the benefit of the piece is therefore for other people. *shrug* and hopefully, no one is bothered or intimidated by that.

I know you think so... but to students of our history, there is nothing new here. The only thing "NEW" is the face that goes with this article.

I was remember the current Minister say something along the lines of, "let those of us who knew Malcolm, deal with his legacy." And therein lies the problem after the death of a historical figure. I am sure Malcolm would have something to say about some of these "I knew Malcolm when" Negroes if he was alive.

At the end of the day, it is an issue of credibility. And from where I stand, the NOI lacks credibility how they disseminate information about Malcolm.

umbra, after getting clowned so bad by nmaginate i'm surprised you're still up in here adding more stuff that is clownable.

nothing you posted proves the point you're trying to make. an individual member of the NOI acting on his own does not make the entire NOI, or elijah muhammad, guilty of anything.

and again, if the government had of had anything to convict elijah muhammad on - they would have done it swiftly. if they had anything to convict min. farrakhan they would have been done thrown the man behind bars, long ago.

stop the madness!

shango, just a reminder of what was posted previously. you, nor honest brother, nor umbra speak for all black people and just because you 3 can't relate to the NOI - that speaks only for you 3. i've had more responses from people who say they gained something from the article than say they didn't gain - so that speaks for itself.

just because you and 2-3 others didn't get anything "new" or beneficial from the info - big deal! you all don't represent anybody other than yourselves unless you are guilty of what was pointed out in the article: thinking more of yourselves than you ought.

now, i get your point and i'm not interested in debating back and forth because you have a problem with the info that was presented. i'm sure you have more important things in life to be concerned with.

PS

you all "kill" me acting as tho you know more about malcolm's history than people who were actually there. LOL. you know nothing of his history other than what was spoon fed to you by "the white man." i hope you are as skeptical of all other malcolm-info that you take in as you are of that which comes from the NOI.

quote:

Originally posted by 1milehi:

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
AND?

What did the behavior of the press have to do with MALCOLM?

i don't know. who said the press' behavior had anything to do with malcolm. what was said was this:

quote:

...this is a separation they were setting up...

that was the point. it was also pointed out that the separation continues to this day .... decades after malcolm x has passed on.

on another note, it is said that malcolm was feeding info to the press which indicates that the behavior of the press, in some instances, had a lot to do with malcolm.

Not me, brother. I know how to read.

The quote YOU provided dealt with what the PRESS reported. I know white folks were setting up the NOI. This is a fact. The FICTION, IMO, is that Malcolm knowingly played a role in this separation... this is the MYTH I beleive has been created by the NOI.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
Not me, brother. I know how to read.

first, i'm not a brother.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
The quote YOU provided dealt with what the PRESS reported.

yes, and that quote had nothing to do with what malcolm was doing. you brought that into it, set up a straw man argument, so you could knock it down.

the quote you responded to had nothing to do with malcolm's behavior - so why did you try to bring that into it?

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
I know white folks were setting up the NOI. This is a fact. The FICTION, IMO, is that Malcolm knowingly played a role in this separation... this is the MYTH I beleive has been created by the NOI.

well, thank you for saying it's your OPINION because your opinion may not be in line with reality and fact.

people who were there know specific things that malcolm was doing. you don't know those things so who should we believe - people who knew malcolm and who were there or people who weren't there, didn't know him, and have a bias toward the NOI which prevents them from being objective about the situation?

1Mile... (if I've missed, pardon me)... You should just admit your NOI bias and be done with it. I have no problem with the NOI and I'm in complete agreement with ZAKAR's statement.

And, in truth, there really wasn't much that was presented in the interview. But, being honest, we know or at least I know this is something that does differ from some of the prevailing White-washed narrative:

quote:

They try to say that Malcolm went over there and saw White Muslims that he had never seen before. When he went over there the first time, [he] saw the reality of the fact that Islam is the brotherhood of man and that the purpose of Islam is to bring about a universal brotherhood. That's not something that Elijah Muhammad didn't know but you're not gonna have brotherhood when you have people who will not submit to God and the equality of things [unless] they are in an exalted position.

Malcolm was no stranger to what was going on in the Middle East. [He] had a mindset, ideas and things that he was trying to do before time. The White man tried to utilize Malcolm to keep a permanent separation between those who admired [him] and those who tried to follow Elijah Muhammad, and now Min. Farrakhan.

Me, I was looking for more of a personal perspective from someone who knew him on a personal level and would treat the story like a biography and not some old tired defense of Elijah Muhammad. That, he can keep. He can defend Elijah Muhammad without the ploy of acting like he's going to provide new, different or untold (hardly known) insights into The Life & Times of our dear brother.

Anyway... The popular mythology (which doesn't isn't necessarily "popular" or accepted here amongst a core of rather astute brothers/sisters) tries to spin Malcolm's HAJJ experience into something that it was not. That's why ZAKAR's statement is ON POINT!

If AWM presents factoids about how Malcolm evolved with definitive quotes from Malcolm on substantive things like that (as opposed to the vague: "Brother Randolph, with what I've seen and what I've heard, if I were to turn back Allah would be justified in dropping me off of the Empire State Building on top of my head.")... then there is indeed value to be had in him writing this book.

But, if it's to constantly try to affirm Malcolm's love for Elijah Muhammad as a way to try run down the same ole tired Apologetics for the NOI... then whatever little tidbits he has to offer will get lost in the sea his NOI perspective he can't remove himself from.

So, I'd have to side with Umbra when it comes to that. If AWM is going to pretend to give a "true" history, Malcolm can't be a way for him to try to exonerate whatever he feels to be the flawed perceptions people have about the NOI.

But if the book is more "everyday with Malcolm" tidbits like that of an biography (as opposed to an NOI Apologetic) then even with his clear NOI bias the book is worth it.


But go ahead... Admit that you are NOI, if you are and cut with the deception.

another thing. some of us evidently aren't as up on the history as we claim. malcolm played a big role in his separation from the NOI as he was the one who left, took his charges against elijah muhammad to the press and started his own thing.

malcolm was not put out of the nation. after he made the "chickens coming home to roost comment," in defiance of elijah muhammad telling his ministers to say nothing in regards to kennedy's assassination, he was restricted from speaking in the public. that is not equivalent to him being put out and he was not separated from the NOI because of that.

later he left, of his own will and volition, i.e. he chose to separate himself which means he had everything to do with that. for folks to say it's fiction that malcolm "Malcolm knowingly played a role in this separation".... well, i have to wonder if such person knows what in the world they are talking about.

;-) @ shango