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Condelezza Rice, Justice Clarence Thomas, Armstrong Williams and other like-minded blacks represent the ultimate of all American social experiments; they are the members of the new modern day super-vassal class. The socially engineered two class intra-structure of American slaves, i.e., field Negro and house Negro, is the wedge responsible for the dual development of black people in America today. Miscegenation is a direct derivative of the slave social twofold and was by the 18th century an embodiment of an additional class of black Americans. Having broken the yoke of rebellion and resentment associated with field hands and while lacking mixed blood and the attractiveness of bright skin, the super-vassals adopted and rejuvenated social values required of house Negroes and demanded by their masters, - subordinate mannerisms, compliance and obedience. These values provided the nexus of trust between house hands and their masters. They also rest as the cornerstone of today's dominant subordinate relationship between whites at the helms of power and their super-vassal class of Negroes.

For Corporate bosses, government leaders and the like, the super-vassals are indeed the chosen of the black community. They cast the mold that shapes the real meaning of black success in America. When individuals like Condelezza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Armstrong Williams and Ward Connerly are questioned about social issues pertinent to most black folk, their responses more often than not is hurtful to blacks but always welcomed by whites! In doing so, the super-vassals effectively separate themselves from blacks at-large; thereby reinforcing in the minds of white society exactly what side they stand on. Indeed, discourse about house Negroes verses field Negroes is passé', social advantages that light skinned Negroes once enjoyed is long vanished, - one only needs to ask Louis Farrakhan. Today even the blackest of Negroes can be socially rewarded as long as he or she is educated, devout, possess subordinate mannerisms, is compliant and obedient to his/her white superiors. From the ashes of America's subjugated Negroes classes, the super-vassals emerge. Irrespective of atrocities committed against them, no other country in the world can boast the success in reincarnating a rebellious despicable slave into a highly educated loyal vassal who now despises his own kind.
Original Post
I visit the board from time to time. I think the best repsponse to the above is to repost my earlier comments about this.


quote:
Originally posted by Icon:



Clarence Thomas is a pitiful embarassment. I liken him to Michael Jackson in that he was so uncomfortable in his own black skin that he had to paint another skin over it to compensate. Michael did it with surgery and bleach. Clarence did it with ideology and pandering to whites. Either way, self-hate is at the core of their pathos, and it is sick.

In 1998 Thomas delivered a speech where he said that when he was in seminary in the late 1960's he was "tired of being a minority". That is probably the most honest thing he ever said. From then on he committed his life to endearing himself with whites. In his mind, I guess, that was the closest thing he could do to lessen the stigma of his "minority" status - to get whites to "like" him based upon his adoption of the 'most white' of their views. He even went out and got himself a white woman to "frost the cake". Now he finds himself on the Supreme Court, woefully over his head and unprepared. Overshadowed by every other Justice and by History.

At best, he is our "Black Sheep". At worse, a real life and high profile example of someone praying for "The Bluest Eye".
I appreciate the fact that Colin Powell plays that game, but seems to retain his perspective and identity. I loved when in front of the most zealous conservatives in America at the Republican National Convention, he stood up and told them that he supported affirmative action, a woman's right to choose, etc., etc. That was great!

BTW - I saw him on Meet The Press yesterday. How did he do? Let's just say Bush better thank his lucky stars that Colin is black. That is the ONLY chance he would have of being re-elected if Colin quit and got in the race himself in a couple of years.


Onward and Upward!
To understand the difference between all the men mentioned in this post and Collin Powell you need to look no further than who these men chose as mates. With the exception of Armstrong Williams whom mate I have never seen, these men are married to white women. Some of you may believe this does not have anything to do with the mindset of these individuals. I beg to differ, If you were to study all Black men that are in politics and study the stance they take on certain issues, mainly the ones that effect Black men and women detrimentally. You will see these men are married to white women.

Look at brother J.C. Watts scorned by the GOP for his continued support of programs like Affirmative Action; Collin Powell also supports Affirmative Action. What do these two men have in common? They both have Black wives. Coincidence?

As for sister Condi Rice, It is widely rumored that she is a Lesbian. I have found nothing that confirms she is or is not, however I have read her life story many times online on different websites. No man is ever mentioned. She is a big WNBA fan and she is a musician. If I were a betting man I would bet that Ms. Rice is a Lesbian. Fortunately for her she is a republican, had she been a democrat I am sure her sexuality would have been an issue in her appointment.

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By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
I think the views come before the wives. The wives just compliment the views. It is only fitting if you think like white men to have the same kind of wife as white men.

-------------------------
By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
An interesting question to ponder: do they have their views because they have black wives, or do they have their wives becuase of their views? smile


Onward and Upward!


GEE! How about maybe they have their views because they are intelligent black men not afraid to go their own way instead of just following the herd.

AND OH MY GOD, could it be that they married their wifes because HOLD ON they actually love them and appreicated what they brought to the relationship and get this politics had nothing to do with them getting married.

Faheem,

As for Ms Rice and the idea about her sexual orientation, well I guess all single women who enjoy the WNBA and are musicians are now lesibans. Is that not the same kind of generalization that we have for years complained about ie.. black males standing on the corner listening to rap music...yeah they are all drug dealers. It's kinda hard to understand how we can complain about being treated with generalizations and then turn around and do the same thing to ourselves.
JazzDog, what is truly sad is that you actually believe I said those things as a way of providing evidence that she is a Lesbian. I have never been part of a forum on the internet that had as many people as AA.org does that do not read. I have time and time again corrected people who have taken my words and tried to apply their meaning to it. JazzDog do you pay attention to punctuation when reading. Do you stop at every period and every comma or do you just read everything like it is a run-on sentence.

In my message I said I have nothing that confirms or deny she is a lesbian however I read her life story on many web pages period. No man is ever mention period. She is a Big WNBA fan and she is a musician period. These things are some of the things I read on several different websites about her life story. A period ends a sentence. I then go on to say if "I" was a betting man "I" would bet she is a lesbian. I stated clearly "I" have nothing that confirms or denies she is a lesbian, so what makes you believe I provided that she is a Big WNBA fan and a musician as proof that she is a Lesbian. If anything you should have taken those things as explaining the first sentence in my statement.

You are reading into my words what you want to see and not what I said. I could have posted her whole resume the fact that she speaks Russian fluently, was a teacher at the college level, I doubt if that would have done you any good because you don't read my words as I write them you apply you're meaning to my words as if you know my thoughts. I posted it once before and I will say it again if you ever have any questions as to what I am saying, have the decency and respect to ask me what I am saying.

Your problem JazzDog like many is you don't read and when you do read you put your own spin to the words written and spoken by others. I am not writing esoterically, there is no mystery to what I am saying. Take it at face value. There is not symbolism here. I am not hiding in the bushes.

It would be silly to think that these men who you have stated are intelligent married their wives without knowing these women mesh well with their politics and ideology. I don't question the love they have for their wives, I am not interested in the love they have for their wives. I am interested in their continued disloyalty to Black people and the Black community and the harm their politics and ideology does to the Black community

-------------------------
By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
I think the views come before the wives. The wives just compliment the views. It is only fitting if you think like white men to have the same kind of wife as white men.

-------------------------
By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem


Be careful, Faheem. There is a person whom I will not mention, that you share similar views with on this forum and on another who has a white wife and kids with her.

wink
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I appreciate the fact that Colin Powell plays that game, but seems to retain his perspective and identity. I loved when in front of the most zealous conservatives in America at the Republican National Convention, he stood up and told them that he supported affirmative action, a woman's right to choose, etc., etc. That was great!




Colin Powell rocks! I have often thought of him as a voice of reason in the upper echelons of our government. I am so thankful to have him as part of President Bush's cabinet. While not Secretary of Defense, he still has the President's ear as Secretary of State. As my thoughts turned to possible consequences of 9-11-01, I realized he was invaluable. He came up through the ranks and earned his own way. He will not stand for wasting our military resources or our young men and women.

His autobiography should be mandatory reading in high schools. There's a lot more to get out of it than there ever was in the "Iliad and the Odyssey." (Sorry Homer!)

"Unless you're sharing what you have, you don't have as much as you think you do."
Fair enough, so why say "if I was a betting man" your very words indicate what you perceive to be the truth. Oh I forgot you didn't come straight out and say it, you just bring up for discussion various aspects of her life and then make a statement about not having any evidence after making the statement, it seems to me if you didn't have any evidence, why bring the issue up in the first place. If the issue is about the political support that spouses bring to the relationship and how they mesh with their husbands, well fine she doesn't have one so just leave it at that. But NOOOO! you bring another element into the discussion and then take the cowardly way out saying I didn't say she was a lesiban after bringing it up so the readers of your post can ponder your words. While slick its still a dirty and underhanded way to attack the sister. I mean what did it bring to the conservation. What I find sad is that here have a highly educated, intelligent woman but because she doesn't dance to your tune, you then seek to invalidate her.

[This message was edited by jazzdog on September 17, 2002 at 01:38 PM.]
"What I find sad is that here have a highly educated, intelligent woman but because she doesn't dance to your tune, you then seek to invalidate her."

But Jazzdog, this is precisely my problem with blacks like Condi Rice, - all of her intelligence, brilliance and scholarly work is all for the pleasure and behest of whites under the guise of National Security Advisor. Add to that, when Dr. Rice does have something to say about African Americans its negative in that, her statements boarder on denial of legitimate black grievances. For me, it doesn't matter what her sexual preferences are, what matters is when will she provide her own folks some of that brilliance? What good is black education if it only goes elsewhere and never comes back home where it is equally needed?
Independent Man, There is no need for me to be careful; I share similar views with many people who behave in ways I object to, who worship God differently than I do, and live life differently than I do. Similar does not mean the same. It is apparent that if this individual has a white wife we don't see many things the same. I am sure me and you have similar views on something, we just don't know what that is as of now.


Jazzdog, semantics will get us no where. Nothing I say can tear Condoleezza Rice down. She is an accomplished woman, no one can deny that. My words should always be perceived as what "I" believe to be the truth. If you believe differently then so be it. Speaking about something that has been discussed on forums all over the internet is not tearing Ms. Rice down. The reason I mention her perceived sexuality was not to tear her down, it was keeping in tune with my post that spoke about the personal lives of everyone from the previous post.

The bigger question is why you believe me mentioning the fact that she may be a lesbian is an attack?

-------------------------
By all standards, some creatures are just plain strange, making us do double takes because their compositions or habits or appearances defy our sense of logic and our way of viewing reality. Take the wildebeest, the warthog, the hyena, the brown pelican, the Shar-Pei. These animals, seemingly wrought by committee, make us laugh or shake our heads. Another such creature, of the human kind -- and perhaps the strangest of all -- is the black Republican. "

Bill Maxwell

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
kraaal: "...what matters is when will she provide her own folks some of that brilliance? What good is black education if it only goes elsewhere and never comes back home where it is equally needed?"

Would please explain the above statement in a little more detail... Exactly WHAT do you expect of her???...

.

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The Liberal/Progressive mantra: "We are the champions of diversity and opinions... We tolerate all beliefs, all religions, and all customs.......... Unless they disagree with ours!"
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopie:
_kraaal: "...what matters is when will she provide her own folks some of that brilliance? What good is black education if it only goes elsewhere and never comes back home where it is equally needed?"_

Would please explain the above statement in a little more detail... Exactly WHAT do you expect of her???...



When I was at Coca-Cola, the chief marketing officer was a guy named Sergio Zyman. He is a rather famous marketer and personality within the industry. He once told a story about him telling his mother about some great accomplishment of his. After he proudly told of his exploits he said his mother smiled politely and asked, "How does that help the Jewish people?"

Inherant in that question is a spirit of responsibility and commitment to contributing to your people that is referred to above.


Onward and Upward!
Faheem,

I don't think that the statement was in line with the point you were trying to make (my opinion) in that Ms Rice doesn't have a spouse or significant other whose own political view either match hers or influcenced her political thinking. If she is lesiban and her partner impacts on her political leanings, then yes I think that the overall tone of your comments would have been in line with you were trying to say. I just think that rumors and half-truths about a person who we should be holding up as an example of what we can achieve serves no purpose to us uplifting ourselves.

Kraal,

What good is Ms Rice and her brillant black education if the students don't bother to come to school, if parents don't play an active in their education, if they can't get to school because of the crime. We seem to be putting awhole lot on Condi's shoulders while not addressing the fact that there are already brillant black educators out there but because of the above mentioned issues alot of black students still aren't getting educated. And what brillance are you expecting her to provide, a look at her resume and an understanding of where she came from should provide more then enough incentative to get up and press forward with improving your life.

I have always say that if there was no example of a successful black man or woman in this country, then the despair we always talk about would be justified. But that is not the case, whether he/she be liberal or conservative, private or public school educated; there are more then enough examples to black youth that they too can be successful in whatever they want to do. You just have to decide if you wait for it to come to you or you go out and get it.
in a little more detail... Exactly WHAT do you expect of her???...

This is not necessarily an expectation. What I'm referring to in colloquial terms is "where the rubber meets the road." Yes, I agree with you that black role models are good and also needed. And yes, there are indeed many fine schoolteachers out there. But, today sorta like yesteryear, whether in music, entertainment or education when blacks reach that high pinnacle of success, for a variety of reasons the black community usually ends up losing them to white society.

Do you remember the Cotton Club in New York during the days of Lionel Hampton, Count Bassie and Duke Ellington. During the very peak of these great musicians careers, blacks were barred from the Cotton Club and thus denied access to the live music of their own brethren. This is one way in which one can explain Condelezza Rice's relationship with her own black people, - no real and genuine access. Yet her skills, knowledge and scholar are available to whites every day!
However,

I do place her and Colin Powell in the same category. As an African-American, I have to be proud of their accomplishments but I remember all to well their many speeches which started something like

"In my family, hard work was expected...and good grades were cool...and We never thought about color...and my parents worked hard...we knew education was the key...blah blah blah"

And I have to wonder...do they think their families or childhoods were significantly different than many other educated, middleclass black people?

I would imagine nearly every member of AfricanAmerica.org could say the very same thing.

So what I find to be odd/disconcerting is the notion perpetuated by condi, colin, ward, clarence and others, that they themselves are some "other kind of black" people.

Colin powell zig-zagged all across the country making speeches to mentoring/children's organizations talking about "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". Does he realize everybody thirsts for success? Not everybody has boots?

I am ambiguous about Colin. I think he is finding out now that he was just used to put a "more inclusive" face on the republican party. But I think he does stick to his guns.

Whoever said powell made it to the top on his own does not realize that powell has been groomed and handpicked by G.W.'s father, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan - he was in the right place at the right time with the right complexion.
quote:
Originally posted by john doe:

MBM,
What I want to know is why Mrs. Zyman thought of Jews as her people, and not Americans?


There are tiers of commitment and intimacy. At the core, my greatest responsibilities are to my family - first nuclear, then extended. Then to my communities - however I define them.

Personally, I am an American. More specifically though, I am an African American. African is an adjective that modifies, not detracts from, the word American.

Unfortunately the real definition of the word "American" is "white American". This has the effect of completely marginalizing anyone that is not a WASP or that has 'forgotten' their ethnic roots over the genrations. While it may be the preferred root for some European immigrants to blend into the 'melting pot' as quickly and seemlessly as possible (change their names to be less ethnic, lose the accent, etc.), black folks were never really invited to this party and are generally made to feel that they are only begrudgingly accepted. Since the vast majority if our identity was already stripped away through our circumstances here, acknowledging our connection to each other as African Americans is an important factor.


Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by MBM on September 17, 2002 at 08:06 PM.]
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Whoever said powell made it to the top on his own does not realize that powell has been groomed and handpicked by G.W.'s father, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan - he was in the right place at the right time with the right complexion.


I don't think anyone said Powell made it to the top on his own (nor do I think anyone of any race makes it to the top without being tapped by someone for some reason.)

What I said was that he came up through the ranks; a reference to his military career. There are many ways to derail promotions long before reaching 4 star general. Back when Colin's helicopter crashed in Vietnam, I'm sure the Bush's had no idea who he was. Further, I would hate to think that he was tapped by the Bush's primarily because of his race, because the man has brains and talent. Unlike a lot of people in politics, he's nobody's puppet and nobody's fool.

Negrospiritual, are you saying that Powell has been used by the Bush's to merely add diversity to their cabinets? Or is it his good fortune that he has the brains/talent/right place/right time/ AND right complexion? (Gee, the good ol' boys who usually run things used to look for brains/talent/right place/right time/right complexion and mean white only.....so are you braggin' or complainin'? wink)

I can only see Powell's service as a positive influence for our country. He's awesome, true to himself and that has gotta be a hard row to hoe in Washington.

It has been interesting to read AA.org and see that some people are happy that he's leaving his position in the Cabinet (Colin Powell's Exit Strategy thread.) I never could have conceived of that before and it has been most helpful to see things from another perspective.

Peace.

"Unless you're sharing what you have, you don't have as much as you think you do."
Yes, he got help from Reagan and Bush. What top- level, Cabinet-position-holding person doesn't get help from the people already in power?

What I am saying is that without his own smarts and leadership abilities, the Ronnie Raygun and the Bushs wouldn't give him the time of day. In his military career he came up on his own. He didn't enter the army as a 4 star - he earned it.

What I want to know is:

1) Why are you wanting to lessen his acheivements by saying he was helped by the upper echelons of the Republican party?

2) Why are you making his color an issue?

3) Are you saying he's a token member who only got the job because of his skin color?

I think his merits and abilites stand on their own.

"Unless you're sharing what you have, you don't have as much as you think you do."
where I earlier posted that I was proud of the accomplishments of both Condi and Colin -get a grip.


the "smarts" and "leadership ability" of Condi and Colin were never in doubt


THEIR POLITICAL PHILOSOPHIES ARE...


I have not the power to make Colin's color an issue but since he is a Black public figure being discussed by Black people on a Black messageboard...go figure?


NEXT...
Dear Negrospiritual:

Thank you for addressing me in such a manner. I certainly find it enlightening as it reveals much about your character. Perhaps you would like to be addressed by your race/gender only and setting this as an example of how we should all behave.

I assure I am very well gripped. No need to get a new one.

Actually, I was merely clarifying my questions to you, since you weren't sure what I was asking. You always seemed to be hanging back on giving Powell full credit because he was noticed by the people in power. Kinda like "well, he did a good job, but....." In those kind of sentences, the disclaimer that comes after the "but" is usually the important part. So I asked, straight up.

I have enjoyed reading AA.org because of the diversity of opinion, the intelligence and respect members give one another. I only post when I think there may be something positive to offer. Like the tag line reads: "all positive, all the time." I thought of this as a way to gain new insight, perhaps build new bridges. Perhaps not?

Never posted anything negative about Powell. Refuse to post anything negative about you.

So.....

Straight up: Would you rather the white woman left? Anyone can answer this question, but I am especially interested in Negrospiritual's reply.

I wish you all well.
Peace.

"Unless you're sharing what you have, you don't have as much as you think you do."
quote:
Originally posted by herdswoman:

You always seemed to be hanging back on giving Powell full credit because he was noticed by the people in power.


Uhhh...full credit for what?


What is revealing about your character is that you have attempted to "hype up" my posts re: Colin Powell into some sort of cattlewoman vs negrospiritual arena event. Suffice it to say you obviously have not taken the time to notice the nuances of black political thought surrounding conservatism, and black conservative public figures.

You may resume character in your one act play entitled "Wounded Self-Righteous Party"

*yawn*

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