The argument culture urges us to approach the world--and the people in it--in and adversarial frame of mind. It rests on the assumption that opposition is the best way to get anything done. Public discourse requires making an argument for the point of view, not having an argument--as in having a fight.

In the argument culture, criticism, attack, or opposition are the predominant if not the only ways of responding to people for ideas. One of the dangers of the habitual use of adversarial rhetoric is a kind of verbal inflation--a rhetorical boy who cried wolf. What I question is using opposition to accomplish every goal. I am questioning the assumption that everything is a matter of polarized opposites, the proverbial "two sides to every question" that we think embodies open-mindedness and expansive thinking.

An agonistic response, to me, is a kind of programmed contentiousness--a prepatterned, unthinking use of fighting to accomplish goals that do not necessarily require it.

When you're having an argument with someone, you're usually not trying to understand what the other person is saying, or what in their experience leads them to say it. Instead, you are readying your response: Listening for weaknesses in logic to leap on, points you can distort to make the other person look bad and yourself look good.

Approaching situations like warriors in battle leads to the assumption that intellectual inquiry, too, is the game of attack, counterattack, and self-defense. In this spirit, critical thinking is synonymous with criticizing...if you are not provoking and confronting, then you are confirming and coddling--as if there weren't myriad other ways to question and learn. What about exploring, delving, analyzing, understanding, moving, connecting, integrating or illuminating?

The increasingly adversarial spirit of our contemporary lives is fundamentally related to a phenomenon that has been much remarked upon in recent years: The breakdown of a sense of community.

Community is a blend of connections and authority, and we are losing both. [Members] are like squabbling siblings with no authority figures who can command enough respect to contain and channel their aggressive impulses. The argument culture is both a product of and a contributor to this alienation, separating people, disconnecting them from each other and from those who are or might have been their leaders.

Let's start building some hurtin' bombs!! --Tony "Duke" Evers

Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Now, would you mind please citing where you got it from? nono


I was waiting on someone to pick up on the fact that I posted in a boldfaced, italicized format instead of my usual normal typeface for a reason. If anyone is interested in reading the book entitled: The Argument Culture or researching the author, Deborah Tannen, and her other writings you can google her and pick up a book on Amazon.com or research her on a scholarly database.

Her book is one of many books I'm having to digest in the endeavor of trying to complete this doctorate program. But yeah I've been interested in how things have been turning out on AA.org lately with this slow exodus of old heads and the gradual influx of more open-minded, objective members.


And as to your response, vox: Ummm. Yeah. I save the critical thinking jargon for my papers not for posting on AA.org. But thanks the same.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I agree with you and share your frustration - probably more than most are aware. Do you (or anyone) have any thoughts about how to break out of this pattern of interaction? Any solutions?


I think things are slowly but surely working themselves out. Some members are actually calming down while others have left altogether. It was necessary for your discussion board to go through a sort of recession, a transition if you will. Your board has experienced a paradigm shift where some of these rigid, intolerant veteran members that inacted a cyber regime are making a gradual exodus as they can see that their influence has slowly slipped away--with each new member there is a growing desire for transparency and objectiveness and plurality rather than totalitarian control.

The only thing that needs to happen now is the continual and gradual addition and retention of more open-minded, objective members that are more interested in the sharing of thoughts and ideas as well as appreciating others thoughts and ideas or at least respecting their thoughts and ideas without the need to resort to personal attacks and be subjected to cyber politics.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Confused Confused Confused

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, Romulus Burnett ....

Could you break all that down into simple English for me, please?? flowers


Well actually, Ebony, I've discussed this issue over and over again since I first hit this discussion board but my comments were drowned out by the barrage of attacks, insults, and underminding by various members that chose to take the avenue of divide and conquer and to subsequently control rather than to allow a collaboration of ideas.

Thread, after thread, after thread has been made addressing the hostility and "disrespect" on AA.org and time, and time again the same perpetrators that were the main contributors to the hostility and disrespect stepped forward to deny any wrongdoings were committed even though other members expressed legitimate concerns as to how they were treated.

Of course certain members won't see something as broken if they were the ones that did the braking. It takes the continuous, unbiased, unpersuaded diligence of newer members voicing their opinions on these matters for things to change on this discussion board.
quote:
Originally posted by Cholly:
Black people trying to talk over and out loud other Black people and everybody's opinion is more valuble, valid and important than the other person's.

And when your point is challenged, you become a heat-seeking "smart" missile out to destroy that person or shut him/her down. Your word HAS to be the last convincing thought.

It's our disease.

Maybe listening to other people honest and full opinions is needed and the sniping need to be lessened or eliminated by us all.

We read a comment or topic and stop responding to the quote or snippet that you cut & paste and zero in on that and drive it home instead of not listening to the entire written comment. The cut & paste responses ignites the constant back & forth bickering, everyone manuerving and postering at every turn to get the advantage and once the bomb is placed, Bam!! you're dead.

We need to both listen carefully to comments made in it's full context and agree to diagree if so deemed. It will not kill us to do that plus it's only blogging enterainment.

And if you "lose" the discussion (in your mind) let it go. There are no points being scored here.

That's my two cents. Big Grin


A millennia ago I was a member of a discussion board named BlackTokyo.

To make a long story short, BlackTokyo was a Japanese version of AfrianAmerica.org except the members were black people whom either lived and worked in Tokyo and surrounding cities or were interested in traveling to Japan.

Many of its members had flame wars just as this board does. BlackTokyo expeirenced the same issues AA.org is currently experiencing. However, despite the fact that there were many heated arguments the bulk of the members got along fabulously. Unfortunately, the Discussion board's owner ran into some difficulties and setbacks, which caused us to be scattered about the internet but we still try to maintain contact.

I said all that to say this: Despite periodic confrontations we can get along but that cloud of arrogance, pomposity, and intolerance must blow over for that to happen.

I've said this before and I'll say this again. More often than not, the majority of members on this discussion board are well educated and working as professionals in some capacity. We are all capable of addressing a plethora of issues on this board if people put aside their prejudices and their egoes in order to do so.

It can be done.
Oh your mean like THIS or THIS?

The simple solution to the [negative] State of AA.org is for folks to act like grown folks and check their ego at the door.

Oh ... and stop acting as if it's always the other folks who are starting the flame wars/ petty bickering. Newsflash: Someone disagreeing with you is not
/should not be the start of flame wars.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Oh your mean like THIS?

The simple solution to the [negative] State of AA.org is for folks to act like grown folks and check their ego at the door.

Oh ... and stop acting as if it's always the other folks who are starting the flame wars/ petty bickering. Newsflash: Someone disagreeing with you is not
/should not be the start of flame wars.


This is exactly what I was referring to. I made a candid comment about the girl that was the subject of that thread. Did I make a personal attack on any of the members when I made the comment about that girl? No. But for some reason everyone decided I was public enemy number one and launched their assault on me.

There is a way to disagree with someone--there is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and INSULTING someone, kweli4real, and stop acting like you can't differentiate between the two.

That thread you linked is a perfect example of unecessary disrespect.


Who initiated the insults and attacks in that thread you so boldly linked, kweli4real?

THIS IS WHAT IS OVERLOOKED EVERYTIME A THREAD OF THIS NATURE EMERGES:

Perpetrators initiate attacks but somehow the attackers feel they should be the ones to feel angry and victimized when the person being attacked decides to retaliate instead of tucking his or her tail and running. No one should be made to feel like they have to be on the defensive for offering an opinion, even if it is an opinion that may be perceived as unpopular (refer to the beginning of this thread). No one should b forced to play the game of 'turning the other cheek' in order to maintain civility. The attention is always diverted away from the initial attack and the attackers and placed on how the attacked person responded instead of the people who initiated the attack.

You cannot rationalize attacking someone just because you don't agree with that person's comments, particularly if that person did not make any attacks toward you. That shit needs to be put to an end.



Herein lays another problem, which you have also presented, kweli4real. Everyone who has posted in this thread has posted objective, legitmate, constructive, unbaited concerns and or opinions without having to resort to contaminating the currently discussed issue with any potentially confrontational rhetoric. Before you entered the thread, kweli4real, the focus was on sharing ideas not placing blame or creating yet another platform to carry on yet another unecessary debate.
quote:
The argument culture urges us to approach the world--and the people in it--in and adversarial frame of mind. It rests on the assumption that opposition is the best way to get anything done. Public discourse requires making an argument for the point of view, not having an argument--as in having a fight.

In the argument culture, criticism, attack, or opposition are the predominant if not the only ways of responding to people for ideas. One of the dangers of the habitual use of adversarial rhetoric is a kind of verbal inflation--a rhetorical boy who cried wolf. What I question is using opposition to accomplish every goal. I am questioning the assumption that everything is a matter of polarized opposites, the proverbial "two sides to every question" that we think embodies open-mindedness and expansive thinking.


This seems to be the mind set of European culture. The objective is not to solve a problem the objective is to WIN. This means that if a prosecuting attorney convicts an innocent man then he won. If a defense attorney gets a guilty man off then he won. This attitude permeates the culture. Most of these White boys regard it as NORMAL. I often regard it as a waste of time to talk to them.

Sometimes I think there is an underlying trick to it though. We are told about the two opposing sides because those are the tracks they want us to think in. Thinking outside of those tracks might lead to a solution but their objective is to maintain the conflict not find a solution.

But this brings up the issue of language. Bill Clinton exemplified it well with his, "It depends on what your definition of is is." That is a classic. If they build their lies into the definition of the words then it is possible to tell the truth and lie at the same time. It just depends on the person being fooled not knowing the TRUE definition.

I think this is a fundamental component of our economic problems. Ultimately lies are things which do not conform to reality. When too many people believe the lies or don't even know about the lies then they make decisions that don't track with reality. Too many people making too many mistakes and things fall apart.

so how many of Black Americans problems are derived from thinking that the White people know what they are talking about? The palefaces have deluded themselves.

um
quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I agree with you and share your frustration - probably more than most are aware. Do you (or anyone) have any thoughts about how to break out of this pattern of interaction? Any solutions?
Yeah, he could leave.



quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from?



20



I have no idea what he's talking about.
Oh, no. Not TONE LOCO again. Which is not to be confused with the conflict and fall-out over DEBATE STYLES.

And, to think, CON-Feed has been gone ((banned)) for almost 2 years now and you mean to tell me after all that talk about him being the source who disrupted and shut down "productive conversations and meaningful exchanges" these threads are still popping up with the same core board members still signifying instead of being the dominant voices on this board, setting the tone the way they claim they prefer?

Say it ain't so. Just say it isn't so...

... or just be honest. How many more of these threads will it take?
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
...still signifying instead of being the dominant voices on this board, setting the tone the way they claim they prefer?
Nmag, would you mind expanding on this a little bit? I don't know why, but it strikes me as an interesting comment.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Oh your mean like THIS?

The simple solution to the [negative] State of AA.org is for folks to act like grown folks and check their ego at the door.

Oh ... and stop acting as if it's always the other folks who are starting the flame wars/ petty bickering. Newsflash: Someone disagreeing with you is not
/should not be the start of flame wars.


This is exactly what I was referring to. I made a candid comment about the girl that was the subject of that thread. Did I make a personal attack on any of the members when I made the comment about that girl? No. But for some reason everyone decided I was public enemy number one and launched their assault on me.

There is a way to disagree with someone--there is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and INSULTING someone, kweli4real, and stop acting like you can't differentiate between the two.

That thread you linked is a perfect example of unecessary disrespect.


Who initiated the insults and attacks in that thread you so boldly linked, kweli4real?

THIS IS WHAT IS OVERLOOKED EVERYTIME A THREAD OF THIS NATURE EMERGES:

Perpetrators initiate attacks but somehow the attackers feel they should be the ones to feel angry and victimized when the person being attacked decides to retaliate instead of tucking his or her tail and running. No one should be made to feel like they have to be on the defensive for offering an opinion, even if it is an opinion that may be perceived as unpopular (refer to the beginning of this thread). No one should b forced to play the game of 'turning the other cheek' in order to maintain civility. The attention is always diverted away from the initial attack and the attackers and placed on how the attacked person responded instead of the people who initiated the attack.

You cannot rationalize attacking someone just because you don't agree with that person's comments, particularly if that person did not make any attacks toward you. That shit needs to be put to an end.



Herein lays another problem, which you have also presented, kweli4real. Everyone who has posted in this thread has posted objective, legitmate, constructive, unbaited concerns and or opinions without having to resort to contaminating the currently discussed issue with any potentially confrontational rhetoric. Before you entered the thread, kweli4real, the focus was on sharing ideas not placing blame or creating yet another platform to carry on yet another unecessary debate.


Okay ... I get it now! tfro
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:

...still signifying instead of being the dominant voices on this board, setting the tone the way they claim they prefer?


Nmag, would you mind expanding on this a little bit? I don't know why, but it strikes me as an interesting comment.


To be honest with you, I really don't have the energy. I've talked about it before when these types of threads have come up in the past. But I will say this... I recall posters telling me that the times when I engaged, one on one, in heated back and forths that they (and I'm talking about 'core' members here), more or less, lost interest in a topic that they would have otherwise commented on.

To make this short, that just sounds like someone giving their approval for the very thing they say the don't like to see (i.e. lack of civility, flame wars, etc.).

Also, if I remember correctly, somebody complained about how many threads CON-Feed made or something to that effect. At the time (when there was one of them TONE LOCO threads), some of the very member who had an issue with CON-Feed were some of the less prolific conversation leaders (i.e. thread/topic makers).

That kind of lack of productivity (or creativity) leaves a void that's going to be filled by someone else starting the conversation (or argument/flame-wars) they want. Plus, if the old/core member drove the debate/discussion around here (by introducing interesting topics and starting their own threads or keeping the conversation going amongst themselves in the original thread on a worthy topic that a malcontent seems intent of destroying with only the power members all them to have) ... when new members arrive, they would know pretty quick what type of discussion is valued here.
This practice of running away everytime someone initiates a personal attack, a display of unecessary, uncalled for, unprovoked disrespect needs to stop--plain and simple. Bottom line. More peoeple, particularly, newer members need to be more vigilant in pulling members cards who perpetrate various offenses in this discussion board. For example:

khaliqua tried to persuede the new member, shulamite, into making the choice of who is acceptable and who isn't by posting her biased list of members she likes and doesn't like. Shulamite took the steps to discurn for herself who is to be trusted and who she should be weary of, which in turn brought about the type of conclusion khaliqua wasn't looking for.

negrospiritual has on more than one occasion called out rowe for her inconsistancies.

oshun's card has been pulled on numerous occasions as to her bigotry and narrow cultural views.

If more members will begin to police certain members' actions and call them on their actions when the infraction is committed you can bet the disrespect will eventually cease altogether.

Everyone understands there will be disagreements from time to time but the blatant, prolonged attacks need to stop.

The people that know they initiate the attacks RELY on other members ignoring and walking away from threads, so when they decide to "cry wolf" later on down the line in another thread they can easily distort and persuede other members into thinking THEY were the victim when the exact opposite is the case. A lot of this "cry wolf" behavior of attacking someone, then popping up in future unrelated threads to complain about being attacked AFTER THE FACT will cease if the perpetrators are STOPPED at the ORGIN of the attack.

Members have to be proactive not reactive. They can police the threads and simply catch perpetrators in the act if initiating a personal insult, instead of walking away, and acknowledge that, that perpetrator's behavior is UNACCEPTABLE--plain and simple. Don't go after the VICTIM, go after the ATTACKER--plain and simple--and I promise you the unecessary disrespect will eventually cease. The perpetrators also rely on the original scene of their crime fading away so others eventually forget their actions or are discouraged to waste the time searching for the original insult that started the frey. Don't wait until the ATTACKER complains about being attacked AFTER THE FACT and assume his or her complaint is legitimate. Stop them at the point of their infraction.

You don't have to cry for MBM to ban someone. In fact, members should be SUSPECT of other members who are CONSISTENTLY CALLING FOR CERTAIN MEMBERS TO LEAVE OR BE BANNED ALL THE TIME as if THEY were perfectly innocent of unacceptable behavior.
Romulus, I have no problem with the basis or subject of this thread ... I just have a problem with you, of all people, raising it. You are the one that you complain of but are too delusional to see it. [Yes, calling you delusional made that otherwise reasonable statement personal, but no less valid]

In the threads I cited to, I called bs on either the inaccuracy of your facts, the absurdity of your opinion or both. But in neither case did I initiate any personal attacks. It was you that took them that way and [personal attack coming ...] got all drama-queenish that anyone would disagree with you. It was you that began the "your full of sh!t" and "I put you in your place" comments. [Another personal attack coming ...]It was you that acted the elementary school girl that had her pig tail pulled.

THAT IS YOUR PATTERN ... THAT IS WHO YOU ARE. DEAL WITH YOU FIRST.
quote:
THAT IS YOUR PATTERN ... THAT IS WHO YOU ARE. DEAL WITH YOU FIRST.


appl you are exactly right. appl

And why I find this thread TOTALLY hypocritical coming from him (Romulus).

A reader need only check out his history on this board to see the truth.

[coughBULLSHYTcough]
In the last couple of threads Romulus Burnett has participated in heavily, he's offered some incendiary opinions, and the responses have been harsh. But for example in the "cops beat teenage girl" thread, it looks like the first remarks that went beyond disagreeing with the his opinion, and entered the realm of "personal attack," were by other people, aimed at him. In the first page, although KWELI and FABULOUS expressed disagreement with him, it was YEMAYA and SUNNUBIAN who first went further, hitting with "bipolar" and "real man" personal attack labels.

I'm not mad at them, but technically RB was the one who first got attacked personally.

Now granted, his opinion is pretty appalling; his characterization of the girl as a ho and trick & all that is pretty wack. But technically, he wasn't the one who started with the personal attacks, and I notice lately that's been the case.

Enough of the rest of us can't stand him that it doesn't really seem to us like he's blameless (and I, of course, am one of the Head Can't Standees). But this goes back to what I was saying before, about how past beef, from past threads, should not go into how you respond to somebody in another thread. Even if it's the same old crap you're used to from him, if it's not in the nature of a personal attack, then don't personally attack him. Just attack the position, like Kweli & Fab did. (Note, I don't necessarily consider STFU a personal attack if it's in the context of a point being made.)

If this guy hasn't been banned by now, he's not going to be. And since he lately has cut back on directly starting beef, it's time to refrain from personally attacking him (until he attacks first). Let's face it, two years ago, if I had called him out about failing to post a link or citation on a quote he posted, he'd've spent the next three pages calling me all kinds of this & that. I could speculate on the reasons why the mellowing has occurred -- be they spiritual, pharmaceutical, sexual, or something else -- but today, if his actual positions are all that's wrong, they can be attacked without getting personal.
Ahhh, the jurist called VOX lol

My remarks do, in fact, drudge up past beef; but only because it IS about the same old thing. Romulus says some clearly "Rushish" type sh!t and then is shocked, shocked I say, when someone calls bs. It happens all the time.

If I [specifically me] post anything other than a "Yeah ... Uh, huh ... that's right" post, he first attempts to distort the facts, or what I said, or what he said, in an effort to save face, all while projecting that weak tact on me. Then failing that, he goes personal while distorting the facts, or what I said, or what he said.

Then, finally, Romulus will after a couple of weeks, post this type of Rodney Kingish "we all can get along, if y'all would just stop the bs" crap. Ignoring that he is a huge part of y'all.

But I guess I should be used to and/or immune to that by now. Huh?
This song goes out to Romulus Burnett (I love you baby flowers )

Check it out:

man in the mirror

and for those who like to sing along (like I do), check out the lyrics.

*fabs spins around*

*points finger*

~singin'~

make that change

lol

__

man in the mirror - Michael Jackson

I'm Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .

As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To
Know

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)

I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not
Alone?

A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody's Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream
(Washed-Out Dream)
They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya' See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That's Why I'm Starting With
Me
(Starting With Me!)

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Ooh!)
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change His
Ways
(Change His Ways-Ooh!)
And No Message Could've
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .)
Change!

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror,
(Man In The Mirror-Oh
Yeah!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make The Change)
(You Gotta Get It Right, While
You Got The Time)
('Cause When You Close Your
Heart)
You Can't Close Your . . .Your
Mind!
(Then You Close Your . . .
Mind!)
That Man, That Man, That
Man, That Man
With That Man In The Mirror
(Man In The Mirror, Oh Yeah!)
That Man, That Man, That Man
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
You Know . . .That Man
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Oh Yeah!)
Gonna Feel Real Good Now!
Yeah Yeah! Yeah Yeah!
Yeah Yeah!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Ooooh . . .)
Oh No, No No . . .
I'm Gonna Make A Change
It's Gonna Feel Real Good!
Come On!
(Change . . .)
Just Lift Yourself
You Know
You've Got To Stop It.
Yourself!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
I've Got To Make That Change,
Today!
Hoo!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Got To
You Got To Not Let Yourself . . .
Brother . . .
Hoo!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
You Know-I've Got To Get
That Man, That Man . . .
(Man In The Mirror)
You've Got To
You've Got To Move! Come
On! Come On!
You Got To . . .
Stand Up! Stand Up!
Stand Up!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Stand Up And Lift
Yourself, Now!
(Man In The Mirror)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Aaow!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Gonna Make That Change . . .
Come On!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know . . .
(Change . . .)
Make That Change.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Ahhh, the jurist called VOX lol
Sometimes I stare in the mirror and call myself, "My Honor." 20

quote:
My remarks do, in fact, drudge up past beef; but only because it IS about the same old thing. Romulus says some clearly "Rushish" type sh!t and then is shocked, shocked I say, when someone calls bs.
Oh no, I think by the time you got to that point in the teenage girl thread, he had already started saying how you "don't know shit," etc. But the initial personal attacks from others is what I was referring to.

And trust me, by no means am I saying that your boy RB doesn't have some changing to do. In fact... No message coulda been any clearer...
quote:
Oh no, I think by the time you got to that point in the teenage girl thread, he had already started saying how you "don't know shit," etc. But the initial personal attacks from others is what I was referring to.


So are you saying that I'm ... I'm ... special to Romulus? Red Face He saves his wrath for just lil ole me? Red Face

lol
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
In the last couple of threads Romulus Burnett has participated in heavily, he's offered some incendiary opinions, and the responses have been harsh. But for example in the "cops beat teenage girl" thread, it looks like the first remarks that went beyond disagreeing with the his opinion, and entered the realm of "personal attack," were by other people, aimed at him. In the first page, although KWELI and FABULOUS expressed disagreement with him, it was YEMAYA and SUNNUBIAN who first went further, hitting with "bipolar" and "real man" personal attack labels.

I'm not mad at them, but technically RB was the one who first got attacked personally.

Now granted, his opinion is pretty appalling; his characterization of the girl as a ho and trick & all that is pretty wack. But technically, he wasn't the one who started with the personal attacks, and I notice lately that's been the case.

Enough of the rest of us can't stand him that it doesn't really seem to us like he's blameless (and I, of course, am one of the Head Can't Standees). But this goes back to what I was saying before, about how past beef, from past threads, should not go into how you respond to somebody in another thread. Even if it's the same old crap you're used to from him, if it's not in the nature of a personal attack, then don't personally attack him. Just attack the position, like Kweli & Fab did. (Note, I don't necessarily consider STFU a personal attack if it's in the context of a point being made.)

If this guy hasn't been banned by now, he's not going to be. And since he lately has cut back on directly starting beef, it's time to refrain from personally attacking him (until he attacks first). Let's face it, two years ago, if I had called him out about failing to post a link or citation on a quote he posted, he'd've spent the next three pages calling me all kinds of this & that. I could speculate on the reasons why the mellowing has occurred -- be they spiritual, pharmaceutical, sexual, or something else -- but today, if his actual positions are all that's wrong, they can be attacked without getting personal.


This is a great post.

appl
I'm about half a step away from launching a personal attack on Vox. I make a comment, making a no-look passing reference old threads pondering the State of AA.org and he acts like it's time for Nmag on the Budweiser hotseat knowing I didn't want to be bothered. But, being the obliging guy I am, I went on and answered his little query... and for what?

Dude doesn't even have the common courtesy to acknowledge the time and effort I put into "expanding on [what I said] a little bit." That'll be the last time I'll honor any of his would you mind's. I guess what I said didn't "strike" him as that "interesting"...



%$&#*@&*(@^(*@&^#^&($#?"!!!! Wasting my time... Mad


20
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

In the first page, although KWELI and FABULOUS expressed disagreement with him, it was YEMAYA and SUNNUBIAN who first went further, hitting with "bipolar" and "real man" personal attack labels.

Isn't it interesting how, once again, kweli4real is the innocent bystander, the law-abiding, tax-paying citizen that was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Negrospiritual offered a more objective response as a reaction to my statement of being allowed to use appropriate force:

quote:
What kind of school system allows teachers to use "necessary force"? Public school employees are usually trained to keep their hands off the students, aren't they?


Any sign of disrespectful comments there? No. Her question was subsequently answered. Clearly she didn't know the extent necessary force could be used. However, instead of resorting to unecessary attacks out of arrogance and pomposity she saught clarification.

HOWEVER, kweli4real's response to my factual statement about personnel having the legal right to use necessary force was:

quote:
Not true.

Exactly. This is an example of Romulus flapping off at the lips. And no doubt is the reason he is no longer a substitute teacher.

No, others call me a HR professional for the AZ Superior Court, which includes the Juvenile Court and Juvenile Detention facility. A significant portion of my job is reviewing Incident Reports involving use of force. I would bet that I know more about adult/juvenile use of force than you ever will.

...either go back on your meds or have them adjusted. But either way, please do not involve yourself with children ever again.


Firstly, I wonder how is it that vox CLEARLY identified yemaya and sunnubian as unprovoked attackers yet he seemed to overlook KWELI4REAL'S disrespectful, incendiary response? Secondly, was kweli4real's response to my statement about the use of appropriate force really necessary? Particularly sense I hadn't made any personal attacks toward kweli4real BEFORE he initiated his disrespectful comments? NO.

Clearly, kweli4real stated his credentials and experience as an attempt to give credibility to his limited knowledge of what is legally defined as "reasonable use of force." He was under the impression that he should be legally omnipotent and omniscient, therefore, possess explicit knowledge of all the laws of North America. He was wrong as I had subsequently proven.



Enough of the rest of us can't stand him that it doesn't really seem to us like he's blameless (and I, of course, am one of the Head Can't Standees).

Firstly, never at any point in time did I ever DENY my less than respectible actions on this discussion board. In fact, I've ADMITTED to my wrongdoings time and time again in various threads. It's members like KWELI4REAL that can sit in this very thread in this day and age and STILL never admit to ANY wrongdoings he has committed in the past.

Secondly, it's quite astonishing how you, vox, also take the position of being just another innocent bystander, a law-abiding witness to the injustice that has occured on this discussion board. Let us not forget that little ordeal that occured between you and me in Sistahsouljah's thread, VOX.

Have you forgotten the advice Sistahsouljah saught about how to involve her then mexican boyfriend in her treatment of bi-polarism in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread? Even back then kweli4real interjected with unprovoked, uncalled for disrespectful comments and attacks. And just as you are inadvertently in defense of KWELI4REAL now you were inadvertently in defense of KWELI4REAL then even though SistahSouljah and Negrospiritual interacted with me more than both you, vox, and KWELI4REAL combined.

Your entire reason for rejecting the sound advice I offered SistahSouljah was based on KWELI4REAL'S prolonged tirade rather than any alternative solutions he should have presented, which he DIDN'T offer. Even more disturbing is the level of loyalty and respect you give KWELI4REAL to the point of treating his word as the end all, be all unquestionable gospel whether his advice is sound or unsound, and regardless of how disrespectful, arrogant, and obnoxious he is, which leads me to shulamite.

Shulamite has been suspect since day one when she decided to tag team with, once again, KWELI4REAL in intitiating an unprovoked personal albeit non-threatening attack because of the comments I made about never having been dumped in the "Do Women do Most of the Dumping?" thread. Was Shulamite's comments really necessary in that thread? NO.



But this goes back to what I was saying before, about how past beef, from past threads, should not go into how you respond to somebody in another thread. Even if it's the same old crap you're used to from him, if it's not in the nature of a personal attack, then don't personally attack him. Just attack the position, like Kweli & Fab did. (Note, I don't necessarily consider STFU a personal attack if it's in the context of a point being made.)

Well, there you have it. Another one of those biased, passive aggressive 'cry wolf' attempts to paint kweli4real as an innocent victim, a law-abiding bystander, a champion of justice that struggles to tolerate the reckless, bombastic, criminal-minded scurge of AA.org: Romulus Burnett.

If this guy hasn't been banned by now, he's not going to be. And since he lately has cut back on directly starting beef, it's time to refrain from personally attacking him (until he attacks first). Let's face it, two years ago, if I had called him out about failing to post a link or citation on a quote he posted, he'd've spent the next three pages calling me all kinds of this & that.

I could speculate on the reasons why the mellowing has occurred -- be they spiritual, pharmaceutical, sexual, or something else -- but today, if his actual positions are all that's wrong, they can be attacked without getting personal.

Oh really? Have I been the one that has initiated beefs or have I been the one that has retaliated as a RESULT of unprovoked, uncalled for personal attacks waged on me? No one ever bothers to investigate the other side of the coin. It's always ROMULUS DID IT. The flame wars have subsided mainly because the main people that used to keep beefs up with me, members like khaliqua, Rowe, ricardomath, and Oshun Auset, are the ones that have been put on blast for their undesirable behavior on AA.org--but it's AMAZING how all these OTHER aspects of AA.org are ignored while I seem to stay on the front burner. I remain public enemy #1, which is why I use and maintain a statement made by front man of Public Enemy, Chuck D: "I'd rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I'm not."


I haven't mellowed. I'm still the same person I was when I first joined this discussion board. However, my dirty work--so to speak--has pretty much been contracted out by other members on this discussion board. I haven't needed to deal with the politics of AA.org as of late because other members have taken it upon themselves to shed some light on the behavior that has transpired on this discussion board in the past. Besides, I just don't have the time to go after you so-called do-gooders to expose you for the two-faced people some of you really are. I already waste more time than I should by interacting on this board on almost a daily basis when I should be devoting more time to completing my current assignments.




Romulus, this was Kweli4Real's first comment to you in the thread about the girl and the cops:
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Oh, and Romulus ... when they put her in the isolation cell she was subdued and it doen't matter what she said or did to get there.


This was Yemaya's first post:
quote:
Romulus, are you bi-polar? The reason I ask is because sometimes you are insightful and thoughtful and then you turn around say the most dumb shit ever. The latter is more often the case.
Maybe you are just suffering from Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. Being that you are born and raised in Alabama, I can definitely understand that. I see the mental craziness that goes on with many black people who grew up in the South during the 70's 80's & 90's. Baffles me to no end.


I respect and have affection for Yemaya AND Sunnubian, as well as I do Kweli (and NMAG, who I'll get back to 2morrow!!!). But in these two examples, what Kweli said did not amount to a personal attack, while what Yemaya said did. Kweli is stating something in disagreement to what you SAID; Yemaya is speaking about you personally. This is the difference I was pointing out.

Now, by the time Kweli started getting into the hostile realm, it was in response to what had by then become a heated discussion. That's not what we're talking about here. Our discussion here is about HOW discussions GET to the point of personal attacks. Kweli's comments had nothing to do with it getting to that point.

On the subject of this paranoid nonsense about me acting out of "loyalty" to K4R, notice that I included K4R and Fabulous as two who disagreed with you initially without personal attacks. Like Kweli, Fabulous eventually got personal, AFTER the discussion had deteriorated to that point. Fabulous and I do NOT have a relationship where we're all buddy buddy. Sometimes we're cool, sometimes we're not. Yet, I treated her involvement in this thread exactly like Kweli's. If I'm showing favoritism to Kweli, then I'm also showing favoritism for Fabulous. Fabulous. Over Yemaya and Sunnubian. Dude. There is nothing in the history of this site to suggest such a thing. This is either paranoia on your part, or just another pathetic attempt to throw the first half-baked point you can come up with to support a legless argument that a man of integrity would have too much pride to try to pursue.
quote:
Originallly posted by vox:

paranoid nonsense


Really, vox? Is there a reason you decided to resort to making this personal attack? I simply posted the facts of kweli4real's disrespectful comments in the aforementioned thread, which you incontestably ignored, as well as unsuccessfully having tried to inadvertently exonerate kweli4real of any wrongdoing until I brought his inflamatory remarks to light in this thread.

But let's get down to the bones of the matter shall we? The true reason why I labeled you as being true and loyal to kweli4real is this statement you made in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

Kweli said your advice was horrible...


Oh really? "Kweli said"? Did kweli4real present any substantial evidence that lead you to believe he was right in his assumption, thereby, giving you reason to side with his confrontational, adversarial, disrespectful behavior? Particularly, since negrospiritual, a member who is known on this discussion board as having experience in working in the mental health field, took an entirely different approach and agree with as well as compliment my knowledge in the field?

I mean--seriously--vox. You had two choices in the matter. How is it that you sided with kweli4real, a lawyer who has no background in the mental health field and chose to be insulting and disrespectful over negrospiritual, an experienced healthcare professional that agreed with and complimented the advice I gave SistahSouljah?
quote:
Firstly, I wonder how is it that vox CLEARLY identified yemaya and sunnubian as unprovoked attackers yet he seemed to overlook KWELI4REAL'S disrespectful, incendiary response? Secondly, was kweli4real's response to my statement about the use of appropriate force really necessary? Particularly sense I hadn't made any personal attacks toward kweli4real BEFORE he initiated his disrespectful comments? NO.


Damn, Romulus you make sh!t too easy. lol

I think I pegged you when I said:
quote:
he first attempts to distort the facts, or what I said, or what he said, in an effort to save face, all while projecting that weak tact on me.


Check! You do realize that anyone can just scroll back and see for themselves that your "I'm the victim of some vast 'We hate innocent-assed bystander Romulus'" conspiracy is straight bs with no chaser.

Now get on with the personal attack and the Rodney Kingish sh!t so that all can see you fulfill your delusional lot in life.

It must be hard work to be forever the innocent victim. ther

First he
http://africanamerica.org/eve/...854/m/3291018344/p/2

quote:
Oh really? "Kweli said"? Did kweli4real present any substantial evidence that lead you to believe he was right in his assumption, thereby, giving you reason to side with his confrontational, adversarial, disrespectful behavior? Particularly, since negrospiritual, a member who is known on this discussion board as having experience in working in the mental health field, took an entirely different approach and agree with as well as compliment my knowledge in the field?

I mean--seriously--vox. You had two choices in the matter. How is it that you sided with kweli4real, a lawyer who has no background in the mental health field and chose to be insulting and disrespectful over negrospiritual, an experienced healthcare professional that agreed with and complimented the advice I gave SistahSouljah?



Dude ... remember the search function that so frequently give lie to your distorting bs?

quote:
Did kweli4real present any substantial evidence that lead you to believe he was right in his assumption, thereby, giving you reason to side with his confrontational, adversarial, disrespectful behavior?


What I said was:

quote:

While I agree with most of what has been written, this - With all due respect - this is dangerous [and irresponsible] advice. And, I would strongly advise that you ignore it. There is no such animal as a pyschologist with presciption writing credentials. They are called PYSCHIATRISTS.

Bottom-line, there are some conditions that require medication and in your doctor's professional opinion, bi-polar disorder is one of those situations.

There certainly is nothing wrong with seeking out additional support in the form of cognitive therapy/counseling; but never, ever "put on hold" a healthcare professional at the advisement of a non-health care professional, who knows nothing about your history. And, this goes double if you are on anti-depressants, that "hold" can be life endangering.


I response to your advising Sista to:
quote:
Put your psychiatrist on hold and seek out a good psychologist or a family and marriage counselor. If you research hard enough you may even be able to find a counselor or a psychologist that will have secured the credentials to prescribe medication.


That is not a personal attack, disrespectful or any of that. It IS however, disagreeing with some dangerous advice.

And BTW, no where in that thread did NS support your crazy ass advice other than to say that it is clear that you have had experience with mental health professionals.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originallly posted by vox:

paranoid nonsense


Really, vox? Is there a reason you decided to resort to making this personal attack?
You're right, that was wrong of me. Of the two choices I presented: "paranoid nonsense" or "just another pathetic attempt to throw the first half-baked point you can come up with to support a legless argument that a man of integrity would have too much pride to try to pursue," your antics here CLEARLY meet the latter description. That is shown clearly by this foolishness here:

quote:
But let's get down to the bones of the matter shall we? The true reason why I labeled you as being true and loyal to kweli4real is this statement you made in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:
Kweli said your advice was horrible...


Oh really? "Kweli said"? Did kweli4real present any substantial evidence that lead you to believe he was right in his assumption, [emphasis added by me (Vox)]


I'd pay money for somebody to explain to me, how a fool thinks he can get away with QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT, WHEN THE ORIGINAL POSTS ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ANYBODY TO FIND??? That quote, "Kweli said your advice was horrible," wasn't cited to support a belief that your advice was horrible. As in, Kweli4Real said it, so it must be true. The full comment was asking you to stop being mad because people disagreed with some advice you gave. It had nothing to do with the substance of anything Kweli said about your advice. It wasn't even about your advice. It was about your unnecessary negativity.

It went, "This thread is so deeply personal for Sistah, that you shouldn't jack it and turn it into a battle about you. Kweli said your advice was horrible, not out of disrespect for you necessarily, but out of concern for Sistah." In other words, stop taking shit personally when somebody disagrees with you. Especially in that thread, which was not in any way about YOU.

Honestly, man, your "Kweli said" excerpt wasn't even the full SENTENCE in that post! At least quote a whole sentence. It just doesn't get more transparent than this. You're like the saran wrap of aa.org. Transparent AND flimsy as hell.

Stop taking printed, readily accessible quotes out of context, thinking somehow you can get away with it. I mean, some people might say your slip is showing under your dress. But now, your vaginal hairs are showing under your slip. And you need a Brazilian, like, yesterday!

quote:
How is it that you sided with kweli4real, a lawyer who has no background in the mental health field and chose to be insulting and disrespectful over negrospiritual, an experienced healthcare professional that agreed with and complimented the advice I gave SistahSouljah?
Looking over that thread, I agreed with everything Negrospiritual said to Sista Souljah. So did Kweli4Real. But NS never said what you said, which was to:

quote:
Put your psychiatrist on hold and seek out a good psychologist or a family and marriage counselor. If you research hard enough you may even be able to find a counselor or a psychologist that will have secured the credentials to prescribe medication.
Under no circumstances did anything NS said agree with that. And that, as far as I can see, was the only advice you gave that anybody had issue with in that thread. You went off the deep end because that one tidbit of advice you gave was not met with roaring enthusiasm.

And now, two years later, lol you're hoping to find support for a losing argument from some forgotten thread... apparently not understanding that we can go back and read the thread and refresh our recollection.
Nmag, sorry about the delay. I appreciate your response, and I wasn't going to respond just because I understood your explanation perfectly. But I should have acknowledged it.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
... I recall posters telling me that the times when I engaged, one on one, in heated back and forths that they (and I'm talking about 'core' members here), more or less, lost interest in a topic that they would have otherwise commented on.

To make this short, that just sounds like someone giving their approval for the very thing they say the don't like to see (i.e. lack of civility, flame wars, etc.).

Also, if I remember correctly, somebody complained about how many threads CON-Feed made or something to that effect. At the time (when there was one of them TONE LOCO threads), some of the very member who had an issue with CON-Feed were some of the less prolific conversation leaders (i.e. thread/topic makers).

That kind of lack of productivity (or creativity) leaves a void that's going to be filled by someone else starting the conversation (or argument/flame-wars) they want. Plus, if the old/core member drove the debate/discussion around here (by introducing interesting topics and starting their own threads or keeping the conversation going amongst themselves in the original thread on a worthy topic that a malcontent seems intent of destroying with only the power members all them to have) ... when new members arrive, they would know pretty quick what type of discussion is valued here.
I think I see what you mean. But I know for me personally, as much as I love this site and enjoy the interchange of ideas, there is a limit to the enjoyability. It seems that when the enjoyment level diminishes well beyond the usefulness of a discussion, there's a tendency not to feel moved to keep up with the discussion. And mind you, the usefulness isn't that high a threshold when all we're doing is discussing, and between a relatively small community at that.

The concept of "taking back a message board" is kind of lost on me, and a lot of people, I suspect. I hate to disparage the utility of the site, but at the end of the day, some lunatic degrading a message board is going to be on the low end of my priority scale.

Ironically, the best solution would be to figure out a way to increase the number of new, more level-headed posters, so that there's more product coming from them than from the loonies.
quote:
I'd pay money for somebody to explain to me, how a fool thinks he can get away with QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT, WHEN THE ORIGINAL POSTS ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ANYBODY TO FIND???



Again with the insults, vox. Why? I don't recall insulting you in this thread. You're exactly right about "THE ORIGINAL POSTS ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ANYBODY TO FIND" being that I provided a LINK to the thread I'm referring to, which is why I'm wondering how you think I could "get away" with something. This leads me to the second issue, which you incidently brought up previously in this thread: How is it okay for you to indirectly insult me by stating that "everyone hates him enough" and proceed to make up a list of insinuations in reference to my character yet at the same time you provide your own clause in an attempt to preclude me from defending myself of your false acusations such as:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

Let's face it, two years ago, if I had called him out about failing to post a link or citation on a quote he posted, he'd've spent the next three pages calling me all kinds of this & that.


That was mighty hypocritical of you wasn't it, vox? You're calling me "all kinds of this and that" right now and unjustifiably so. I haven't insulted you in this thread--all I've provided is facts to yours and kweli4real's unacceptably disrespectful and unprovoked behavior. Now, let's get back to the topic at hand shall we?

I posted a LINK to the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread in its intirety. Nothing was deleted or ignored or omitted. It's there for everyone to see--the fact that I provided SistahSouljah with sound advice, the fact that SistahSouljah was receptive of the advice, and the fact that negrospiritual was in agreement with the advice I gave SistahSouljah as well as having complimented me on my advice. However, kweli4real CLEARLY interjected in the thread with a barrage of unanswered, unprovoked, uncalled for INSULTS that I clearly did not retaliate against in the beginning of the thread, which leads me to your response, vox.

I fail to see the logic in your reaction to the series of comments that was made in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread. How is it that you could ignore insult, after insult, after insult KWELI4REAL made but you, vox, came to the conclusion that I was the problem? How is it that neither SistahSouljah nor Negrospiritual objected to the mental wellness advice I was giving--in fact they were receptive to it--yet your choice was to, once again, clearly side with kweli4real by stating: "kweli4real said your advice was horrible..."

There is no evidence of you, vox, in that thread acknowledging kweli4real's continuous insults but you can acknowledge kweli4real's comment about my advice being "horrible". Even if my advice was "horrible", which it wasn't, was it really necessary for kweli4real to continuously insult me? It would seem that if my advice were so "horrible" that SistahSouljah would not have been so receptive to my advice. Most definately an outspoken woman like Negrospiritual, an experienced healthcare professional, would have objected to my advice but somehow she didn't. Therefore, she evidently must have approved of my advice.

As I said before, I PROVIDED THE LINK TO THE THREAD. There was nothing omitted, nothing deleted, nothing changed and nothing added. Just as you ignored kweli4real's unprovoked, uncalled for insults in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread you ignored kweli4real's unprovoked, uncalled for insults in the "cops beat teenage girl" thread yet you go out of your way to exonerate kweli4real in both threads.

How is it that you could could acknowledge yemaya's and sunnubian's comments but you couldn't acknowledge kweli4real's comments until I mentioned them in THIS thread? How is it that you could acknowledge the fact that kweli4real said my advice in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread was "horrible" but you couldn't acknowledge that kweli4real had continuously insulted me? By your failure to acknowledge kweli4real's unprovoked, uncalled for, unecessary insults yet you tell me to "chill out" in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread, you are clearly condoning, therefore, siding with kweli4real.

Even in this thread you are clearly being hypocritcal. You're inacting that classic do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do method of reasoning. You said:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

And since he lately has cut back on directly starting beef, it's time to refrain from personally attacking him (until he attacks first).


Yet you and kweli4real have gone right back to your old ways of initiating disrespectful comments.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
I'd pay money for somebody to explain to me, how a fool thinks he can get away with QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT, WHEN THE ORIGINAL POSTS ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ANYBODY TO FIND???

Again with the insults, vox. Why? I don't recall insulting you in this thread.
But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies. I'd rather be called a "fool" than for somebody to run on me the kind of b.s. you've pulled these last couple of posts.

But just the same, I'll refrain from any further name calling. ANYTHING to get you to focus on the substantive stuff instead of the b.s. Deal? beer

quote:
the fact that I provided [her] with sound advice, the fact that [she] was receptive of the advice...
Oh yeah??? The explain why she posted THIS:

Posted July 15, 2007 04:55 PM:
quote:
quote:
(Quoting Romulus) First of all, she said none of the medications her psychiatrist prescribed her are working, hence, for now, her psychiatrist can be put on hold. If none of the medications she's been taking have had any effect, then it would surfice to say she's gone without treatment for a considerable amount of time and she hasn't died or killed anyone, so, once again the pursuit of another psychiatrist can be put on hold for now.

I don't agree.
ohsnap

20 20 20 20 20

Again, my friend, the ONLY thing you said the ANYBODY had ANY disagreement with was when you said she should "put her psychiatrist on hold." EVERYTHING else you said was fine with everyone. You got pissed off solely because people DID take issue with that ONE thing you said.

quote:
...and the fact that negrospiritual was in agreement with the advice I gave ...as well as having complimented me on my advice.
Again, Romulus, she complimented you on a lot of things you said, and indeed, you said a lot of things that no one -- myself included; Kweli included -- had any problem with. HOWEVER. NS did NOT agree with you saying the girl should put the psychiatry thing on hold, because she said:
quote:
It seems that you (1)feel your therapist is competent and thus can be really open with her about your thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors, (2) are working with your psychiatrist to find the right meds, and (3)plan to find ways to get your man more involved. Seems like as good a plan as any.
That would run COUNTER to "putting your psychiatrist on hold."

quote:
from Romulus:
How is it that you could ignore insult, after insult, after insult KWELI4REAL made but you, vox, came to the conclusion that I was the problem?
This is why.

Kweli's first response to you was, "While I agree with most of what has been written, this - With all due respect - this is dangerous [and irresponsible] advice. And, I would strongly advise that you ignore it." [/b] He agreed with EVERYTHING you said in a LONG post, EXCEPT for that one thing. And there was no personal attack, no insult against you there. All he did was disagree with that one point.

Yet, YOUR immediate response began with hostility. You replied: [b] "This is why you should READ before you open your mouth." [/quote] YOU started the hostility. As you correctly state elsewhere, once you get started, you can't expect the other person not to respond in kind. YOU started the hostility. KWELI responded in kind. That should answer your question as to why I "came to the conclusion that [you] were the problem."

The rest of your comments above regarding that thread repeat the same out of context stuff I already debunked in the last thread. You must not have read it. Go back and read it.

quote:
How is it that you could could acknowledge yemaya's and sunnubian's comments but you couldn't acknowledge kweli4real's comments until I mentioned them in THIS thread?
I already addressed this as well. K4R's first post different from Yemaya's and Sun's in that K4R, once again, did not attack you in his post. By the time he went negative, it was after you had already gone there.

In addition to the out of context quoting that I already addressed, you should begin addressing rebuttals substantively, rather than ignore the rebuttal by simply repeating the point that was already rebutted.
quote:
The concept of "taking back a message board" is kind of lost on me


The idea is lost on me, too. I don't know what state of board nirvana or, I guess, the board's former Garden of Eden status that's implicit in the reactions of members to DEBATE STYLES, TONE LOCO and, now, RB's thread.

quote:
at the end of the day, some lunatic degrading a message board is going to be on the low end of my priority scale.


It's not the priority scale that's the problem. It's the lack of having "lunatics" on the LOW END on the RESPONSE SCALE. Members aren't being honest with themselves. They often enable said "lunatics"... That seems to be a high priority. Perhaps people enjoy it. If they do, they should own it. Or maybe it's like the bug and the zapper...

"Don't feed the trolls" or, in this case, "don't help a lunatic degrade the message board."

I have my theory why this happens, especially since I've received/earned a certain kind of person-non-grata status around here. A number of people who consider me a "lunatic" of some sort didn't/don't care to respond to any topic or post I make. Funny how that could happen to me but certain people who put me on ignore, etc. just can't resist the likes of CON-Feed, Michael Lofton, RB, etc., etc., etc.

So, what I'm saying is that there is quite a bit of culpability on the part of board members who get all worked up over the "loonies" to the point of allowing the "loonies" to determine whether they enjoy this board or not. Why should the loonies have that kind of power of (the figurative) you? The member culpability also includes how they are willing participants in the "lunatic degrading" the board because of the enjoyment they get going after said lunatic. Whether its a personal attack or a solid point made about the topic or the way the lunatic treats the topic/response... it's still a contribution towards the lunatic running the asylum.

Also, there should be enough non-lunatic members around for them to be able to approach and conduct the kind of discussions they want. That, or people should be honest enough to admit that they have a particular affection for lunatics or some level of opinion (and personality) conflict.
I had typed up almost an entire e-book in response to this thread and topic. But its best to keep things short and to the point.

Good topic, wrong poster. The word hypocrite seems to float around in my mind regarding this.

In terms of my previous comments about Romulus, I meant every word. I think that something is wrong with a person who exhibits so much disdain for black children and is a teacher. Which Rom said was his profession when he first joined the board.
It is illogical and unnatural to be a teacher and hate children (that is the impression I get from his posts on youth). In my opinion, something in fact is wrong with Romulus mentally. He may not be bi-polar but he has serious issue(s).
So if he calls a young black girl a 'trick' or a 'ho', as a parent and woman I'm taking issue with it and with him. EOD.
This is sooo painful to watch. VOX, there is absolutely no way you will make any headway in this, or any discussion with Romulus - where you are not in 100% agreement. His fragile ego won't allow it.

In case folks haven't noticed, there is a direct relationship between the strength of your argument and the lack of common sense that Romulus exhibits, i.e., the righter you are the more outrageous Romulus' conduct.
One other thing, Vox...

A prime example of what I'm talking about is what you and I are almost doing -- i.e. thread snatching. Members can simply talk over, around or without the "lunatics" even in threads they start. That's what tangents are for. lol

Soooooooo... In this thread, seems to me members could make the point Yemaya makes -- "Good topic, wrong poster" -- and keep the focus on whatever they feel is worthy of discussing even if it requires speaking over, around and without engaging the "lunatics."

The "wrong poster", at most, should be a passing reference and certainly not the focus of members' remarks... IF... people honestly and earnestly want AA.org to be all they feel INTELLIGENT.BLACK.COMMUNITY should be. That's how members can drive the discussion, any discussion, no matter who starts it.
quote:
Again, my friend, the ONLY thing you said the ANYBODY had ANY disagreement with was when you said she should "put her psychiatrist on hold."


Wrong again, vox. You're purposefully trying to misconstrue SistahSouljah's misunderstanding of my use of words as her not agreeing with my advice, which is one of the main reasons why I posted the excerpts from Deborah Tannen's book:

When you're having an argument with someone, you're usually not trying to understand what the other person is saying, or what in their experience leads them to say it. Instead, you are readying your response: Listening for weaknesses in logic to leap on, points you can distort to make the other person look bad and yourself look good.

You didn't care that I had made a clerical error, vox. You were too interested, too eager, as you are now, to try to prove that my advice was wrong. Anyone could see that I had made a CLERICAL ERROR in how I worded my response not an ERROR IN JUDGEMENT. Otherwise, why would I tell SistahSouljah to put her then current pscyhiatrist on hold yet also tell her to put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold too? That would mean she wouldn't have been recieving treatment from ANYONE. Firstly, my CLERICAL ERROR was in not proofreading what I had written. Secondly, my ERROR IN JUDGEMENT was in wasting my time responding to you and kweli4real when I should have been more focused on my interaction with SistahSouljah.

I'll re-post the entire section of that conversation in context:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus:

First of all, she said none of the medications her psychiatrist prescribed her are working, hence, for now, her psychiatrist can be put on hold. If none of the medications she's been taking have had any effect, then it would surfice to say she's gone without treatment for a considerable amount of time and she hasn't died or killed anyone, so, once again the pursuit of another psychiatrist can be put on hold for now.



quote:
.I don't agree.

I am not putting total blame on my psychiatrist because it's not like she isn't doing her job. These specific medications simply don't work for me. I don't think it should mean I should say to hell with psychiatrists for now. And while I have not killed anyone nor committed suicide, I HAVE harmed myself, and depression is something you do not let sit and marinate, waiting for it to get worse, as mine has. Indeed, the very polar opposite should be done. If I am going to stop seeing this one, I need to find another ASAP style so I can try to once again exhaust the pharmaceutical possibilities.



AGAIN, I will admit I made a CLERICAL ERROR but it was an ERROR in how I [B]worded my statement NOT in how I advised SistahSouljah. If I had noticed I made that error in my post I would have corrected it. Unfortunately, I allowed myself to be DISTRACTED by KWELI4REAL'S continuous UNPROVOKED insults. The ORIGINAL ADVICE I MADE AT THE BEGINING OF MY STATEMENT STILL STANDS:[/B]

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

First of all, she said none of the medications her psychiatrist prescribed her are working, hence, FOR NOW, HER PSYCHIATRIST CAN BE PUT ON HOLD.



quote:
Originally posted by SistahSouljah:

I HAVE harmed myself, and depression is something you do not let sit and marinate, waiting for it to get worse, as mine has. Indeed, the very polar opposite should be done. If I am going to stop seeing this one, I need to find another ASAP style so I can try to once again exhaust the pharmaceutical possibilities.


Once again you try to distort the meaning of my comments by quoting PART of my statement, which is what lead you to make this distracter statement:

quote:


That is not a personal attack, disrespectful or any of that. It IS however, disagreeing with some dangerous advice.


Let's put the COMPLETE response--WITHIN ITS CONTEXT--I made as clarification to SistahSouljah that you and kweli4real ignored in order to distort my words:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Firstly, didn't you say that you wanted to look for another psychiatrist? Secondly, I did ask you how long you had been taking medication(s) from your current psychiatrist. Has it been a few weeks, a few months or what? Thirdly, I didn't tell you to think "to hell" with psychiatrists. I said to put looking for a new psychiatrist on HOLD for FOR NOW. The reason why I suggested you put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold for now is to try to find a family and marriage therapist - that is IF you are interested in involving your significant other in your sessions. If involving your man in your sessions ISN'T a priority, then perhaps you COULD seek a second opinion from another psychiatrist.

Nevertheless, as of now you haven't divulged how long you have been with your current psychiatrist nor have you divulged the type of medication(s) you've been prescribed nor how long you've been taking this prescription(s). You're leaving out too much information to think you can get a solid answer from anyone online, first of all, and secondly, have you talked with your psychiatrist about any research where you've found out about a certain medication she hasn't tried yet?

And if you have researched the various forms of medications available for bi-polar disorders you would know it isn't like taking Tylenol or Advil. Some medications may take 2 weeks to 6 months to a year before results can be achieved. You can't just drop your current psychiatrist and pick up another one tomorrow, get a prescription(s)on the spot and get desired results in a few days. It doesn't work that way. The main thing I would be concerned with, if it were me, is if my current psychiatrist is receptive or resistant to my advocacy. If you have spent a considerable amount of time with your psychiatrist and her methods have not worked and she's resistant to your input, thereby, not having had the opportunity to "exhuast the pharmecutical possibilities" due to her uncooperativeness, then, again, it's time to seek another psychiatrist.





I gave her the correct advice she needed in the beginning--to put her at the time current psychiatrist on hold. Even if I hadn't completed the rest of my comment the mere fact that I said SistahSouljah should put her psychiatrist on "hold" would mean she shouldn't count on her current psychiatrist's assistance as her psychiatrist's efforts to provide her with the appropriate meds to correct her undesirable behavior were unsuccessful. Therefore, she SHOULD seek another Psychiatrist. I take mental and physical healthcare very seriously and I would have loved to have gone further into depth on this discussion board in regards to various health issues as I did in my Crohn's Disease thread. But when people like you--vox and kweli4real--seek to contaminate threads by initiating unprovoked, uncalled for, unecessary attacks one loses interest in doing so as well as loses respect for the members that consider themselves to be scholarly, open-minded intellectuals.



Now, lets move on with this deposition:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies.


You, vox, "attempted to insult my intelligence" when you said: Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from? which implied that I wasn't capable of the excerpts I wrote at the beginning of this thread. But did I call you a "fool"? No I didn't. You and a couple other members on this discussion board relish in your expression of critical thinking skills and scholarly vocabulary to the point where, firstly, you think you're somehow unique and special and, secondly, you're of the mindset that if others don't express themselves to the same effect they are considered less than, inferior, common, which is why you and a couple other members feel the need to utilize condescending, obnoxious, demeaning, sarcastic rhetoric as a display of your scholarly and intellectual superiority.

I do not subscribe to this haughty, rigid, indifferent, contemptuous, state of being, which is why 90% of the time when I interact on this discussion board I prefer to speak in a more relaxed, common tone. Now don't confuse my reluctance to employ a scholarly demeanor on a regular basis as a display of anti-intellectualism. I wouldn't be on this discussion board if I didn't appreciate intellectualism. But to use my intellect as a weapon instead of a tool? I'll pass. That's why I also prefer to cuss somebody out in common language rather than browbeat someone to death like some kind of frigid, snobbish, vacuous, supercilious, conceited adjunct professor.


What is so interesting is in your attempt, once again, to find a weakness in my judgement you have proven that I gave SistahSouljah the correct advice in the very beginning of my involvement in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread when I said:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Put your psychiatrist on hold and seek out a good psychologist or a family and marriage counselor. If you research hard enough you may even be able to find a counselor or a psychologist that will have secured the credentials to prescribe medication.


However, in your eagerness to see a weakness in my logic, you and kweli4real got caught up over this part of my comment:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

If you research hard enough you may even be able to find a counselor or a psychologist that will have secured the credentials to prescribe medication.


To which kweli4real responded:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

There is no such animal as a pyschologist with presciption writing credentials. They are called PYSCHIATRISTS.



To which I replied by posting information regarding the victories some nonphysicians, particularly, psychologists had won in the effort to indeed prescribe medication, particularly in New Mexico, which could have possibly been within reach of SistahSouljah since she is or was living in Southern California at that time. The article I posted specifically stated:

quote:
Nonphysicians such as naturopaths and psychologists, having seen their colleagues in other states win the right to prescribe or otherwise expand their scope of practice, are expected to push hard for the same authority in more states in 2005. Meanwhile, organized medicine is getting ready to fight their efforts.


Once again, KWELI4REAL was so eager to find error as well as distort my words he quoted the same section of the article like this:

quote:
Nonphysicians such as naturopaths and psychologists, having seen their colleagues in other states win the right to prescribe or otherwise expand their scope of practice, are expected to push hard for the same authority in more states in 2005. Meanwhile, organized medicine is getting ready to fight their efforts.


kweli4real subsequently responded saying:

quote:
Yes. Reading is fundamental; but comprehension is essential. Notice the future tense? Roll Eyes


In his eagerness to make himself look good he failed to comprehend that the very section of the article he quoted said: nonphysicians such as naturopaths and psychologists, HAVING SEEN their colleagues in other states WIN THE RIGHT TO PRESCRIBE.... "having seen" is in the past tense, which means somewhere in North America there were/are psychologists who were/are prescribing medication, which is why I suggested SistahSouljah take the time to RESEARCH and find out where those psychologists would be.


Again with the underminding distractors:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

And now, two years later, you're hoping to find support for a losing argument from some forgotten thread... apparently not understanding that we can go back and read the thread and refresh our recollection.


This isn't about seeking support. I'm doing quite well pointing out your inconsistancies on my own. I don't need anyone high-fiving me or responding with smilicons or condescending remarks. The evidence speaks for itself.
quote:
Originally posted by vox:

YOUR immediate response began with hostility. You replied: "This is why you should READ before you open your mouth." YOU started the hostility.


But wait a minute. Didn't you just say in this very thread:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

(Note, I don't necessarily consider STFU a personal attack if it's in the context of a point being made.)



Interesting. STFU is an acronym for SHUT THE FUCK UP. So you think it's okay to tell someone to SHUT THE FUCK UP but if I tell someone they should READ before they open their mouth, then that's considered being hostile? Your rationale is flawed not to mention biased to say the least.
Romulus ... STFU IT'S OVER AND DONE WITH.

quote:
The "wrong poster", at most, should be a passing reference and certainly not the focus of members' remarks... IF... people honestly and earnestly want AA.org to be all they feel INTELLIGENT.BLACK.COMMUNITY should be. That's how members can drive the discussion, any discussion, no matter who starts it.


yeah But I must confess being an adult about it lacks a certain flavor. Big Grin
Just a quick correction to start with:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by vox:
And now, two years later, you're hoping to find support for a losing argument from some forgotten thread... apparently not understanding that we can go back and read the thread and refresh our recollection.

This isn't about seeking support. I'm doing quite well pointing out your inconsistancies on my own...
I mean seeking support as in finding a point that supports your position. I didn't mean garnering support from others. Just a simple preliminary correction.

As for the rest of this... all I can say is LOL. If I'm reading this correctly in my haste, you are now claiming that you mis-typed. You're saying that you didn't mean for her to not see ANY psychiatrist, but just stop seeing the one she was seeing.

Most people reserve this kind of pathetic desperation for, like, LIFE-THREATENING issues. You throw the sorriest, most pitiful arguments to salvage something you did wrong. And what's so hilarious, is that you have time to work out a more intelligent response. Message boards, not being a real-time medium, allow you to sit and ponder the merits of a response. This is... wow.

You told her to "put her psychiatrist on hold," and I guess you're saying that later in the paragraph when you state, "once again the pursuit of another psychiatrist can be put on hold for now," -- that this was your "clerical error" (I mean, yo! Clerical error, LMBAO!).

Okay.

So then THIS was also a clerical error?
quote:
I said to put looking for a new psychiatrist on HOLD for FOR NOW. The reason why I suggested you put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold for now is to try to find a family and marriage therapist...


So you made the same clerical error in two different posts?

Okay.

Then, after Kweli expressed disagreement with you, you posted two consecutive posts of articles on whether non-MDs should be allowed to prescribe meds... a "bitter pill" for the psychiatrists that you made a "clerical error" about. And you continuously tried to defend not just the leaving of the one psychiatrist, but the avoidance of looking for a new one.

Now that you say that this was a "clerical error," you basically are now admitting that you spent that whole thread angrily focusing on defending something that you didn't mean to say.

Frankly, that is FAR, FAR more disturbing than defending a wrong position after you know it's wrong. Defending the content of a TYPO is WAYYYYY more insane than that. So you just defeated the whole purpose of this new claim you're making.

Of course, I know you're lying. But you should be more careful about what rag-tag desperate b.s. you rush onto a post.

I'm out.
Presenting known lies as the other side would be harmless if there were, as Czech poet and president Vaclav Havel put it, "a special radioactive power of the truthful word." Sadly, there is no evidence that there is. People are often persuaded by lies rather than by truth.

In the worst cases, our situation is comparable in this respect to that of totalitarian countries whose governments deliberately mislead their people by spreading disinformation. This is one of the most dangerous effects of the argument culture. It creates an atmosphere of animosity that spreads like a fever.

Aggression was a weapon in a war against specific wrongs. The spirit of attack today--aggression in a culture of critique--is disinterested, aimed at whoever is in the public eye. And a show of aggression is valued for its own sake. In other words, it's agonism: automatic, knee-jerk aggression.

The aggression often surfaces as a sneering and contemptuous tone that has been remarked--and questioned...



quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Presenting known lies as the other side would be harmless if there were, as Czech poet and president Vaclav Havel put it, "a special radioactive power of the truthful word." Sadly, there is no evidence that there is. People are often persuaded by lies rather than by truth.

In the worst cases, our situation is comparable in this respect to that of totalitarian countries whose governments deliberately mislead their people by spreading disinformation. This is one of the most dangerous effects of the argument culture. It creates an atmosphere of animosity that spreads like a fever.

Aggression was a weapon in a war against specific wrongs. The spirit of attack today--aggression in a culture of critique--is disinterested, aimed at whoever is in the public eye. And a show of aggression is valued for its own sake. In other words, it's agonism: automatic, knee-jerk aggression.

The aggression often surfaces as a sneering and contemptuous tone that has been remarked--and questioned...






quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from?
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Just a quick correction to start with:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by vox:
And now, two years later, you're hoping to find support for a losing argument from some forgotten thread... apparently not understanding that we can go back and read the thread and refresh our recollection.

This isn't about seeking support. I'm doing quite well pointing out your inconsistancies on my own...
I mean seeking support as in finding a point that supports your position. I didn't mean garnering support from others. Just a simple preliminary correction.

As for the rest of this... all I can say is LOL. If I'm reading this correctly in my haste, you are now claiming that you mis-typed. You're saying that you didn't mean for her to not see ANY psychiatrist, but just stop seeing the one she was seeing.

Most people reserve this kind of pathetic desperation for, like, LIFE-THREATENING issues. You throw the sorriest, most pitiful arguments to salvage something you did wrong. And what's so hilarious, is that you have time to work out a more intelligent response. Message boards, not being a real-time medium, allow you to sit and ponder the merits of a response. This is... wow.

You told her to "put her psychiatrist on hold," and I guess you're saying that later in the paragraph when you state, "once again the pursuit of another psychiatrist can be put on hold for now," -- that this was your "clerical error" (I mean, yo! Clerical error, LMBAO!).

Okay.

So then THIS was also a clerical error?
quote:
I said to put looking for a new psychiatrist on HOLD for FOR NOW. The reason why I suggested you put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold for now is to try to find a family and marriage therapist...


So you made the same clerical error in two different posts?

Okay.

Then, after Kweli expressed disagreement with you, you posted two consecutive posts of articles on whether non-MDs should be allowed to prescribe meds... a "bitter pill" for the psychiatrists that you made a "clerical error" about. And you continuously tried to defend not just the leaving of the one psychiatrist, but the avoidance of looking for a new one.

Now that you say that this was a "clerical error," you basically are now admitting that you spent that whole thread angrily focusing on defending something that you didn't mean to say.

Frankly, that is FAR, FAR more disturbing than defending a wrong position after you know it's wrong. Defending the content of a TYPO is WAYYYYY more insane than that. So you just defeated the whole purpose of this new claim you're making.

Of course, I know you're lying. But you should be more careful about what rag-tag desperate b.s. you rush onto a post.

I'm out.


There you go twisting, omitting, and distorting again while trying to add more insulting rhetoric. You're not doing a good job of being open-minded and objective. In fact, let me just stop you right there. what's really far,far more disturbing is the fact that you diligently tried to base your entire argument on the comments I made, firstly, after the fact of my already having made clarification of what SistahSouljah and I discussed on PAGE TWO of the "Mental Illness in Relationships" thread, which, once again, your 'legless' argument omitts the COMPLETE evidence of my further investigation into SistahSouljah's situation. Should I re-post it for you? Here you go:

quote:
Firstly, didn't you say that you wanted to look for another psychiatrist? Secondly, I did ask you how long you had been taking medication(s) from your current psychiatrist. Has it been a few weeks, a few months or what? Thirdly, I didn't tell you to think "to hell" with psychiatrists. I said to put looking for a new psychiatrist on HOLD for FOR NOW. The reason why I suggested you put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold for now is to try to find a family and marriage therapist - that is IF you are interested in involving your significant other in your sessions. If involving your man in your sessions ISN'T a priority, then perhaps you COULD seek a second opinion from another psychiatrist.

Nevertheless, as of now you haven't divulged how long you have been with your current psychiatrist nor have you divulged the type of medication(s) you've been prescribed nor how long you've been taking this prescription(s). You're leaving out too much information to think you can get a solid answer from anyone online, first of all, and secondly, have you talked with your psychiatrist about any research where you've found out about a certain medication she hasn't tried yet?

And if you have researched the various forms of medications available for bi-polar disorders you would know it isn't like taking Tylenol or Advil. Some medications may take 2 weeks to 6 months to a year before results can be achieved. You can't just drop your current psychiatrist and pick up another one tomorrow, get a prescription(s)on the spot and get desired results in a few days. It doesn't work that way. The main thing I would be concerned with, if it were me, is if my current psychiatrist is receptive or resistant to my advocacy. If you have spent a considerable amount of time with your psychiatrist and her methods have not worked and she's resistant to your input, thereby, not having had the opportunity to "exhuast the pharmecutical possibilities" due to her uncooperativeness, then, again, it's time to seek another psychiatrist.



Why would you ignore the entirety of that informative dialogue just to focus on a clerical error I made on a subsequent page, which was really just a reiteration of what I had previously said? You and kweli4real blatantly ignored the fact that SistahSouljah wanted to involve her then boyfriend in her endeavor to control her bi-polarism, which is why I RE-STATED this comment:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Secondly, and once again, if sistahsouljah is considering involving her man in counseling it would be better to seek out a family and marriage counselor because it is UNLIKELY a psychiatrist will be willing to counsel the client as well as the significant other mostly out of personal choice. I would add, however, that it wouldn't hurt to ask her current psychiatrist if he or she is willing to counsel both her and her man. If not, then a logical alternative would be, once again, to seek out a family and marriage counselor.



Furthermore I stated...

quote:
Considering SistahSouljah's psychiatrist may not approve of therapy sessions with her and her boyfriend (since negrospirtual has in effect co-signed) a possible alternative would be to seek out a family and marriage counselor. Why? Because family and marrige counselors, more specifically, a psychotherapist, is better trained to deal with couples counseling. Why is suggesting group therapy a bad idea? From SistahSouljah's description of her boyfriend (IF a person has been paying attention all along instead of acting like an ass out of embarrassment) he may be more comfortable in a couples session (that means just two people and the therapist for the fools that don't get it) rather than being put in a group with strangers. However, if Sistah talks with her man and discusses with him the option of whether to attend a group session or a more private couples session he may be more receptive.

There are advantages and setbacks to being in a group session, particularly, in the case with Sistah's boyfriend. Some advantages in being in a group session are you get to spend more time with a therapist and a group session is more inexpensive than a couples session. The setback is the therapist's attention is dispersed amongst other people, which may make Sistah's boyfriend feel marginalized as he's forced to listen to other people's problems as well as have to share his time with other people. On the other hand, it may help to listen to other people's problems in the process of Sistah and her boyfriend solving their own issues. Nevertheless, in the process of effectively exhausting all avenues of treatment, SistahSouljah is provided with more options. That way she has a better opportunity to find a solution that will better suit her needs rather than listening to an idiot that's using this thread to beef with me.


Neither one of you had anything to say otherwise nor did you offer any substantial, effective, appropriate advice of your own but somehow you and kweli4real thought the advice I gave was "horrible" despite neither negrospiritual nor sistahsouljah disagreeing with what I said.
quote:
Neither one of you had anything to say otherwise nor did you offer any substantial, effective, appropriate advice of your own but somehow you and kweli4real thought the advice I gave was "horrible" despite neither negrospiritual nor sistahsouljah disagreeing with what I said.


That's because I agreed with most of your posting ... all but the dangerous and irresponsible suggestion that she put seeing her doctor on hold.

And regarding Sista and NS's silence, I would suggest that their silence was more in ignoring you than agreeing with you.

lol Romulus ... Just stop! Do you not see how silly you make yourself look? Just let it go and move on.

And BTW, the archives will show ...I only get stupid [aggressive/personal] when someone gets stupid first.
(shulamite, hoping she doesn't regret this...)


quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
You, vox, "attempted to insult my intelligence" when you said: Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from? which implied that I wasn't capable of the excerpts I wrote at the beginning of this thread. [edit]

Now don't confuse my reluctance to employ a scholarly demeanor on a regular basis as a display of anti-intellectualism. I wouldn't be on this discussion board if I didn't appreciate intellectualism.



Romulus, I honestly believe that you appreciate intellectualism. You have introduced some very thought-provoking topics since I've been reading the board and, sans the personal discussions, I actually appreciate reading your point of view on various issues.

But the request to cite your source was not a dig that you weren't "capable of the excerpts [you] wrote at the beginning of this thread".

Of course you're capable of composing that statement. But the truth is that you didn't.

And for that reason, a citation for the person who did is appropriate.

It's not about academic brow-beating. It's about honesty.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

The flame wars have subsided mainly because the main people that used to keep beefs up with me, members like khaliqua, Rowe, ricardomath, and Oshun Auset, are the ones that have been put on blast for their undesirable behavior on AA.org


You must have me confused with somebody else, Ironhorse.

I don't recall much in the way of "ongoing beefs" with you. In fact, for a long time I had you on ignore, so it would have been quite difficult for me to maintain any sort of discussion with you, whether in the form of a beef or not, since I skip past most of your posts even when you are not on ignore.

To me, you are simply an irrelevant poster with a knack for gratuitously and spontainously dropping turds in the punchbowl, as you did totally out of the blue in my "Blacks in Colombia" thread. You can be amusing in your personal attacks on other posters who for example might make land purchases that you disaprove of. Not sure what category of mental illness makes folks behave the way that you do, but I will admit to posessing the human weakness of being amused and entertained by it from time to time, much as with Lofton.

So while I may snicker at your antics from time to time, please don't confuse that with some sort of ongoing beef. I would actually have to read your posts and respond to them on a regular basis for that. No time for that these days, actually. In fact, not much time for posting on internet forums in general, however amusing it is to find my name mentioned in your post as one of your regular tormenters.
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
(shulamite, hoping she doesn't regret this...)


quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
You, vox, "attempted to insult my intelligence" when you said: Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from? which implied that I wasn't capable of the excerpts I wrote at the beginning of this thread. [edit]

Now don't confuse my reluctance to employ a scholarly demeanor on a regular basis as a display of anti-intellectualism. I wouldn't be on this discussion board if I didn't appreciate intellectualism.



Romulus, I honestly believe that you appreciate intellectualism. You have introduced some very thought-provoking topics since I've been reading the board and, sans the personal discussions, I actually appreciate reading your point of view on various issues.

But the request to cite your source was not a dig that you weren't "capable of the excerpts [you] wrote at the beginning of this thread".
Shulamite, he knows. He's just trying to make up a way to paint me as a hypocrite for complaining that he insulted my intelligence. But like with every single other one of his issues with me in this thread, he's being dishonest. When he first responded, he himself cited other reasons why it should have been obvious that he didn't write it. Things that had nothing to do with his intelligence level.

Plus, if he really thought I was insulting his intelligence with that, he would have said so back then. This is just another game he's playing.
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
(shulamite, hoping she doesn't regret this...)


quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
You, vox, "attempted to insult my intelligence" when you said: Romulus, that was a very well thought out, brilliantly worded piece. Would you mind please citing where you got it from? which implied that I wasn't capable of the excerpts I wrote at the beginning of this thread. [edit]

Now don't confuse my reluctance to employ a scholarly demeanor on a regular basis as a display of anti-intellectualism. I wouldn't be on this discussion board if I didn't appreciate intellectualism.



Romulus, I honestly believe that you appreciate intellectualism. You have introduced some very thought-provoking topics since I've been reading the board and, sans the personal discussions, I actually appreciate reading your point of view on various issues.

But the request to cite your source was not a dig that you weren't "capable of the excerpts [you] wrote at the beginning of this thread".

Of course you're capable of composing that statement. But the truth is that you didn't.

And for that reason, a citation for the person who did is appropriate.

It's not about academic brow-beating. It's about honesty.


You should go back and start at the beginning of the thread. In case you didn't notice I responded to vox's inquiry by saying:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

I was waiting on someone to pick up on the fact that I posted in a boldfaced, italicized format instead of my usual normal typeface for a reason. If anyone is interested in reading the book entitled: The Argument Culture or researching the author, Deborah Tannen, and her other writings you can google her and pick up a book on Amazon.com or research her on a scholarly database.

Her book is one of many books I'm having to digest in the endeavor of trying to complete this doctorate program. But yeah I've been interested in how things have been turning out on AA.org lately with this slow exodus of old heads and the gradual influx of more open-minded, objective members.

And as to your response, vox: Ummm. Yeah. I save the critical thinking jargon for my papers not for posting on AA.org. But thanks the same.


Was there any sign of aggression there? NO. Was there any sign that I was reluctant to cite the excerpts I used? NO. I clearly offered not only the book I also gave the author's name. What you overlooked was vox's attempt to justify this comment:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

I'd pay money for somebody to explain to me, how a fool thinks he can get away with QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT, WHEN THE ORIGINAL POSTS ARE RIGHT THERE FOR ANYBODY TO FIND???



By saying:

quote:
Originally posted by vox:

But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies.



This is vox "obviously" crying wolf in an attempt to justify resorting to insults.


quote:
Originally posted by Shulamite:

But the request to cite your source was not a dig that you weren't "capable of the excerpts [you] wrote at the beginning of this thread".


You don't know vox that well. No matter how long you've been lurking this discussion board before you decided to make your presence known through interacting with us you can't make a 100% accurate observation of someone's particular M.O. especially if they go out of their way to conceal, shroud their intent in a veneer of sarcastic cynicism, which vox is known for, and which he applies only to members he 'hates'.

Anyone who has written and/or read graduate and, particularly post graduate writing knows that when a person is quoting another person the text is italicized to signify to that effect. 99.9% of the time I always put words that are not mine in italics to signify that I didn't write those words on this discussion board and everyone knows that. In fact, as far as I have seen, I'm the only one that does that. Nevertheless, considering this is supposed to be a discussion board geared to more of a casual atmosphere for the general populus and not a discussion board that's a closed to the public online dissertation course no one should have to go so far as to inact full fledge APA style format to appease someone's feigned scholarly standards.
quote:
Originally posted by vox:

But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies.


Since you can't answer any of my questions I want to see all of these alleged "lies" you said that I made, vox, or you can take your own advice and "STFU."
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Romulus. Bottom line: Address a point substantively or STFU!


All the evidence is layed out on the proverbial table for everyone to see. The only excuse you and kweli4real can come up with for thinking that the advice I gave in the "Mental Illness in Relationships" was "horrible" was that you and kweli4real thought I told SistahSouljah to stop seeing her at the time current psychiatrist and also not to seek a new psychiatrist. You also tried to further distort the situation by quoting my words out of context from a statement I made that was with clerical error--a statement that I only reiterated from the full response I gave SistahSouljah on the second page:

quote:
Firstly, didn't you say that you wanted to look for another psychiatrist? Secondly, I did ask you how long you had been taking medication(s) from your current psychiatrist. Has it been a few weeks, a few months or what? Thirdly, I didn't tell you to think "to hell" with psychiatrists. I said to put looking for a new psychiatrist on HOLD for FOR NOW. The reason why I suggested you put searching for a new psychiatrist on hold for now is to try to find a family and marriage therapist - that is IF you are interested in involving your significant other in your sessions. If involving your man in your sessions ISN'T a priority, then perhaps you COULD seek a second opinion from another psychiatrist.

Nevertheless, as of now you haven't divulged how long you have been with your current psychiatrist nor have you divulged the type of medication(s) you've been prescribed nor how long you've been taking this prescription(s). You're leaving out too much information to think you can get a solid answer from anyone online, first of all, and secondly, have you talked with your psychiatrist about any research where you've found out about a certain medication she hasn't tried yet?

And if you have researched the various forms of medications available for bi-polar disorders you would know it isn't like taking Tylenol or Advil. Some medications may take 2 weeks to 6 months to a year before results can be achieved. You can't just drop your current psychiatrist and pick up another one tomorrow, get a prescription(s)on the spot and get desired results in a few days. It doesn't work that way. The main thing I would be concerned with, if it were me, is if my current psychiatrist is receptive or resistant to my advocacy. If you have spent a considerable amount of time with your psychiatrist and her methods have not worked and she's resistant to your input, thereby, not having had the opportunity to "exhuast the pharmecutical possibilities" due to her uncooperativeness, then, again, it's time to seek another psychiatrist.


The original statement I placed in boldfaced type I made as a response to clarify SistahSouljah's misunderstanding of my comment as well as having identified Sistah as not having given more detailed information as to her dilemna for me to make a better response to. AGAIN, vox, why is it that you ignored my original response to SistahSouljah on PAGE TWO to harp on an obvious clerical error I made on a subsequent page?


In fact, you ignored the advice I gave SistahSouljah on PAGE ONE, which was:


quote:
Originally posted by SistahSouljah:

I am in therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. I'm trying different medications right now because nothing seems to work. I'm trying to be patient but it is extremely frustrating.



quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Perhaps you could try seeking out psychiatrists or psychologists that may be involved in research that tests medication on volunteers - at the very least, follow their research and find out their results. You might also want to apply for a subscription to the APA journal and other mental wellness publications. Another avenue would be to research who conducts seminars on behavior disorders and attend a seminar.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Anyone who has written and/or read graduate and, particularly post graduate writing knows that when a person is quoting another person the text is italicized to signify to that effect.


Im my own articles, generally italics is reserved for mathematical formulas ("math italics") or for the statement of Theorems, Propositions, Lemmas, Corollaries, Conjectures, etc. Not so much for Definitions, Remarks, Examples. But there really are no ironclad rules about it, except for rules that various individual journals might enforce as part of their own journal style.

I don't think that I have ever used italics for quoted material. I might narrow the margins for blocks of quoted text, and will always include a reference to the original material.

quote:
99.9% of the time I always put words that are not mine in italics to signify that I didn't write those words on this discussion board and everyone knows that.


Maybe some of us are not sufficiently obsessed with the stylistic conventions that you follow in your posts to have noticed this self-imposed rule. Assuming that "everybody knows that" seems to be a result of rather extreem self-centeredness, where you imagine that everybody is going through your posts with a fine toothed comb to figure out what stylistic conventions that you use in your posts here. Honestly, some of us have neither the time nor the interest to undertake such a thourough study of your stylistic conventions, as much as it might feed your ego to imagine that we do.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Anyone who has written and/or read graduate and, particularly post graduate writing knows that when a person is quoting another person the text is italicized to signify to that effect.
On message boards, the proper convention is to cite within the post where you got a quote from. If it came from a website it should be a link. The one time I can think of where I forgot to do that, somebody called me on it.

And in any event, even in scholarly writing, while you may italicize, you also credit the author. You didn't do that in the OP, and you wouldn't have if you hadn't been called on it. What you did would have been considered plagiarism within a scholarly paper. Even if you'd italicized it, the failure to cite would have been a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by vox:

But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies.


Since you can't answer any of my questions I want to see all of these alleged "lies" you said that I made, vox, or you can take your own advice and "STFU."
I already did. And you know as much.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Anyone who has written and/or read graduate and, particularly post graduate writing knows that when a person is quoting another person the text is italicized to signify to that effect.


Without a footnote (which you didn't provide), this practice alone is incorrect and would land anyone doing "graduate and, particularly post graduate writing" on academic probation for misconduct.

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
99.9% of the time I always put words that are not mine in italics to signify that I didn't write those words on this discussion board and everyone knows that. In fact, as far as I have seen, I'm the only one that does that.


Perhaps you're the only one you've observed who does that because the act is inherently dishonest.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by vox:

But you have attempted to insult my intelligence, with this out of context nonsense and obvious lies.


Since you can't answer any of my questions I want to see all of these alleged "lies" you said that I made, vox, or you can take your own advice and "STFU."
I already did. And you know as much.



Where are the lies?

The only "lie" you proclaimed to have caught me in was that I took your words out of context, which in itself was a lie. I clarified the reason why I referenced your "kweli said..." as an example that you were biased as you ignored all of the insults kweli4real stated yet you suggested that I be the one to "chill".

Where are the LIES?
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Anyone who has written and/or read graduate and, particularly post graduate writing knows that when a person is quoting another person the text is italicized to signify to that effect.
On message boards, the proper convention is to cite within the post where you got a quote from. If it came from a website it should be a link. The one time I can think of where I forgot to do that, somebody called me on it.

And in any event, even in scholarly writing, while you may italicize, you also credit the author. You didn't do that in the OP, and you wouldn't have if you hadn't been called on it. What you did would have been considered plagiarism within a scholarly paper. Even if you'd italicized it, the failure to cite would have been a problem.



This is an unecessary explanation considering I provided links in every post I've made where I used information from a second source, so don't even begin to pretend that I haven't done so in the past.
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:

Without a footnote (which you didn't provide), this practice alone is incorrect and would land anyone doing "graduate and, particularly post graduate writing" on academic probation for misconduct.

Once again, as I stated BEFORE, this is not a University owned and run, closed to the public, dissertation course discussion board. This isn't even a professionally refereed academic/scholarly website. This is an informal discussion board open to the general populus--anyone that wants to join and participate can do so. There are no "official guidelines" requiring that one utilize full fledge APA format style of writing even though some of the members of this discussion board want to PRETEND as such.

Perhaps you're the only one you've observed who does that because the act is inherently dishonest.

Inherently dishonest by who's standards? AfricanAmerica.org?


Intelligent - do posts contribute to greater understanding about the issue being discussed? This does not mean that every post has to agree with your opinion (or mine), it just means that posts and opinions should be construed to be a part of an intelligent dialog about an issue.

To be sure, disagreement and debate - even of a vigorous and passionate kind - has a home here. Nevertheless, it is entirely reasonable to expect that kind of opposing discourse without succumbing to personal attacks and needlessly inappropriate language. Those things are not welcome and will not be permitted.

Black - is a post in any way relevant to the African American community? Of course, our interests are - and should be - broad and wide.

Community - this is a broad "catch-all" criteria that basically asks if a member is contributing to building the kind of community that we hope to establish here? In addition to those attributes in our "mantra", characteristics of AfricanAmerica.org include adjectives like Afrocentric, smart, warm, curious, respectful, supportive, funny, committed, helpful, friendly, etc. Behavior that is in any way inimical to "Intelligent. Black Community." and adjectives like those listed here are not welcome.

Building Our Community

To maintain a healthy community here, it requires the commitment and contributions of all of our members. We've all got to help make our community into what we want it to be. For example, as members, we must all model the type of behavior that we expect of others - particularly newcomers. If we don't like something in others, we must ensure that we don't participate in that same behavior!


Firstly, I don't recall seeing any guidelines stating that I have to provide ANY kind of references or citations with what I've posted. Nevertheless, I've always done so (i.e. links and/or italicized text). Secondly, Since this ISN'T a professionally refereed, scholarly/academic discussion board I will post my sources in any manner I choose. When MBM decides he wants to run his discussion board in an academic/scholarly, professionally refereed capacity I can assure you I'll be more than up to the task of satisfying those standards. Until then I can and will continue to post my sources any way I choose.

quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Until then I can and will continue to post my sources any way I choose.


Fine. It is your choice. But don't act like a scalded cat when another poster calls you on it.

Integrity is integrity, where ever one is...


Wrong, sister. No one has called me on anything. If you are as well versed as you say you are on the past postings of nearly every core member on this discussion board, then you should know I've provided links as well as italicized text in nearly every post I've made where I used second sources--another instance where as far as I know I'm the ONLY one to have utilized BOTH a link AND italicized text to emphasize the words I used are NOT my words. Furthermore, no one should act like a "scalded dog" when they consider themselves 'calling me on it' and I call their bluff. That's another undesirable trait that needs to end on this discussion board. Members have an uncanny ability to criticize people yet think no one should respond to their criticism otherwise be negatively labeled.
We all tend to think of ourselves as reacting to others and others' behavior as absolute. If we hear ourselves snapping at someone, we focus on what we're reacting to. We think of ourselves as nice people who were provoked. But if someone else snaps at us, we rarely wonder what we said to provoke this response. Instead, we judge the other person's personality: He's rude, she is tempermental.

The culture of critique undermines the spirit not only of people in public roles but those who read about them, afraid to believe in anyone or anything because the next story, if not the next paragraph, will tell them why they shouldn't. The aggression culture makes it harder for leaders to solve problems because it encourages citizens to lose trust in their leaders.

Part of the cult of objectivity is a lack of responsibility for the human suffering caused by attacking others. It's all part of the game; the attacks should not be taken personally. No matter how viciously [members] are attacked, they are expected to continue to be cordial, friendly, and open to those who have attacked them because the assaults are supposed to be ritual, not real (though they have very real consequences for those who are attacked).
quote:
Originally posted by vox:

Let's face it, two years ago, if I had called him out about failing to post a link or citation on a quote he posted, he'd've spent the next three pages calling me all kinds of this & that.


This is indeed a lie. Find the post where this type of behavior you described exists.
quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

the archives will show ...I only get stupid [aggressive/personal] when someone gets stupid first.


You only got that partially right. The archives show you shoot first and ask questions later. You get "stupid" first when you decide you're a professional, published authority concerning every issue that exists. Instead of asking for clarification you quickly jump to the conclusion of declaring my statements as wrong. This would be fine if you had evidence supporting your position but you don't. You never have. You simply come out of the blue with the 'Romulus, you're wrong' mantra and proceed to throw a temper tantrum--contaminating unrelated threads out of embarrassment and frustration wherever you see me post.

You were wrong when you said:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

There is no such animal as a pyschologist with presciption writing credentials. They are called PYSCHIATRISTS.


Then when I proved you wrong with the two articles I posted you responded by quoting part of the article I posted and attempted to distort the very section of the article that proved there being such an "animal" as a psychologist that can write prescriptions by boldfacing an irrelevant part of the article:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

Nonphysicians such as naturopaths and psychologists, having seen their colleagues in other states win the right to prescribe or otherwise expand their scope of practice, are expected to push hard for the same authority in more states in 2005. Meanwhile, organized medicine is getting ready to fight their efforts.


You subsequently responded with your distorted quote by saying:

quote:
Yes. Reading is fundamental; but comprehension is essential. Notice the future tense?


Trying to emphasize the future tense of that part of the article is irrelevant considering the part of the sentence just before the section you put in boldface clearly identifies psychologists with prescription writing rights in the past tense:

quote:
Originallly posted by Romulus Burnett:

Nonphysicians such as naturopaths and psychologists, having seen their colleagues in other states WIN the right to prescribe or otherwise expand their scope of practice, are expected to push hard for the same authority in more states in 2005. Meanwhile, organized medicine is getting ready to fight their efforts.


As if that weren't disturbing enough you turn right around and acknowledge the fact that prescription-writing psychologists DO exist by referring to the article I posted:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

And even in the 2002, it appears that the only place where this is possible, is New Mexico. So is your solution really practical?


Your question was irrelevant primarily because you had previously said: There is no such animal as a pyschologist with presciption writing credentials.[/



Next issue:

I had to confront you about banks having fudiciary responsibility to recover the identity of a customer if it is determined that a bank employee stole that customer's Identity, thereby, committing fraud:

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

...what you're saying is banks don't have a fiduciary responsibility to aid in their members' recovery of identity theft if that identity theft was a result of one of their employees misusing the information and funds of an account holder (savings and checking)? By the way, don't come up with some backsliding, backtracking explanation. All you have to say, kweli, is yes or no.



You demonstrated how you could get "stupid" once again by jumping to conclusions and saying:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

Actually, and by way of pointing out another inaccuracy that I previously chose to ignore ... I did not what to further confuse you. But the bank is responsible for recovering any lost moneys ... The recovery/repair of any damage to the account holder's IDENTITY is the responsibility of the account holder.

So ... Mr. Know Nothing ... YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN



But after having provided two sources, one from USA Today and the other from First Federal Savings Bank of Twin Fallsproving you wrong you replied:


quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

My bad ... I stand corrected. You are correct. Banks, as a marketing tool, have recently begun offering assistance in repairing the damage done by ID theft. For accuracy's sake, in my previous post, I should have included the qualifiers "UNTIL RECENTLY" and "MOST".

Now see how easy that was [to admit inaccuracy]


Once again, stating deviating factors like 'including qualifiers' is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether you had introduced "UNTIL RECENTLY" or "MOST". The fact remains that you denied banks were fiduciarily responsible for recovering customers' stolen identity. In fact, here's another article about a class action lawsuit on Bank of America which they were forced to uphold their fudiciary responsibility to PROTECT banking customers' identity.

Next issue:

In the issue of personnel having the right to use appropriate or reasonable force to restrain a child I said:


quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

There are approved ways to take a child down but even then a trained and licensed person has the authority to use the appropriate amount of force to match the child's level of aggression. However, in the case of law enforcement an officer can be more aggressive than an educator or a person employed by a local or state board.


You responded by saying:

quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

Not true

This is an example of Romulus flapping off at the lips. And no doubt is the reason he is no longer a substitute teacher.


Subsequently, I proved you wrong yet again when I provided Florida state statutes proving state personnel having the right to use reasonable force to restrain a child. You responded by saying:

quote:
Okay ... you got me. Red Face


You even stated once again in that same thread:

quote:
originally posted by kweli4real:

and oh yeah ... banks do not have a fiduciary responsibility to restore a customer's identity if a bank employee is the one that stole the customer's identity


Information was already provided years ago proving you wrong that you conceeded to back in 2007 yet you come up in AfricanAmerica.org in 2009 to repeat the same lie.



This is why I have no respect for you, kweli4real, and also why I strongly question the character of anyone who unwittingly follows you, giving you the utmost respect, admiration, loyalty, and unquestioned authority while turning a blind eye to your lying, decietful, disrespectful actions as they simultaneously criticize my actions in response to your unwarranted, uncalled for, unecessary, excessive attacks.
RB, I'll get to you in a second.

quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
So, what I'm saying is that there is quite a bit of culpability on the part of board members who get all worked up over the "loonies" to the point of allowing the "loonies" to determine whether they enjoy this board or not. Why should the loonies have that kind of power of (the figurative) you? The member culpability also includes how they are willing participants in the "lunatic degrading" the board because of the enjoyment they get going after said lunatic. Whether its a personal attack or a solid point made about the topic or the way the lunatic treats the topic/response... it's still a contribution towards the lunatic running the asylum.

Also, there should be enough non-lunatic members around for them to be able to approach and conduct the kind of discussions they want. That, or people should be honest enough to admit that they have a particular affection for lunatics or some level of opinion (and personality) conflict.
OIC... Guilty as charged... at least in this thread. And point well taken, too.

In this case, it felt like certain things needed to be said/corrected, given the topic of the thread (a feeling best summed up by YEMAYA: "good topic, wrong poster)." But I admit, I didn't have to indulge it as much as I do. It had/has a certain entertainment value, right up to the point where you think, "wait, why am I wasting time with this?"

I like your overall suggestion, though.

Having said that...

quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
In the last couple of threads Romulus Burnett has participated in heavily, he's offered some incendiary opinions, and the responses have been harsh. But for example in the "cops beat teenage girl" thread, it looks like the first remarks that went beyond disagreeing with the his opinion, and entered the realm of "personal attack," were by other people, aimed at him.

...past beef, from past threads, should not go into how you respond to somebody in another thread. Even if it's the same old crap you're used to from him, if it's not in the nature of a personal attack, then don't personally attack him. Just attack the position, like Kweli & Fab did.

...if his actual positions are all that's wrong, they can be attacked without getting personal.
And on top of writing that, I recently hit Romulus with a yeah about something he said.

Clearly, something was very wrong with me. But this thread has set things to right once again. The trolls don't need to be enabled, either through acknowledging agreement with them or engaging them in useless discussions about themselves (or anything else). Auf Wiederschreiben, Herr Burnett.
All boards have an argumenititive culture to one degree or another. It can usually be controlled by the owner coming up with some firm rules on how one can interact with others. I remember in one of my first threads Romulos can in calling me racist and so on and so forth. I do not have any problem with being called racist, but it did set the culture for my interactions with the board. While you can't stop disagreement and arguments, you can stop people from being able to attack others. That is the most simple of moderation rules. Thus far MBM has proven he find that behavior acceptable and since it his site it is his culture.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:

Thus far MBM has proven he find that behavior acceptable and since it his site it is his culture.


Uh, no. Just because I don't have the time - or interest really - to moderate every thread doesn't mean that I accept poor behavior here. I have tried to clearly articulate what this site should be about - from its tag line (Intelligent. Black. Community.) to publishing a set of Community Guidelines to posting about how we should interact here to banning people when necessary. I created AfricanAmerica.org as a platform to facilitate lots of dynamic interchange between smart folks who like and want to communicate with others. It is my hope that we've created that - to whatever degree - and that we continue to strive toward that objective.

I do know that as in the world - we all would be better if we kept the Golden Rule in mind. It may sound corny, but it would work! 15
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:

Thus far MBM has proven he find that behavior acceptable and since it his site it is his culture.


Uh, no. Just because I don't have the time - or interest really - to moderate every thread doesn't mean that I accept poor behavior here. I have tried to clearly articulate what this site should be about - from its tag line (Intelligent. Black. Community.) to publishing a set of Community Guidelines to posting about how we should interact here to banning people when necessary. I created AfricanAmerica.org as a platform to facilitate lots of dynamic interchange between smart folks who like and want to communicate with others. It is my hope that we've created that - to whatever degree - and that we continue to strive toward that objective.

I do know that as in the world - we all would be better if we kept the Golden Rule in mind. It may sound corny, but it would work! 15


Why not promote a long time trustworthy member as moderator?
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:

Thus far MBM has proven he find that behavior acceptable and since it his site it is his culture.


Uh, no. Just because I don't have the time - or interest really - to moderate every thread doesn't mean that I accept poor behavior here. I have tried to clearly articulate what this site should be about - from its tag line (Intelligent. Black. Community.) to publishing a set of Community Guidelines to posting about how we should interact here to banning people when necessary. I created AfricanAmerica.org as a platform to facilitate lots of dynamic interchange between smart folks who like and want to communicate with others. It is my hope that we've created that - to whatever degree - and that we continue to strive toward that objective.

I do know that as in the world - we all would be better if we kept the Golden Rule in mind. It may sound corny, but it would work! 15


Why not promote a long time trustworthy member as moderator?


I've raised that but people get very concerned when the word moderator is brought up. I think the fear is that someone with clear alliances will get the job and discriminate against others.

Honestly, I just wish we could get folks to police themselves, to model good behavior for others, and to take the high road more often than not.
Romulus,

I propose that we, you and I ... but mostly you ... let this sh!t go. I could go back and cut and paste from each of those threads and conclusively dispute each and every one of your points as factually and/or intellectually dishonest.

But the fact is I have no interest in doing so ... it just ain't that important. [I][and no ... this is not some backhanded admission of that you have bested me] [/I] The fact is, anyone that has an interest, and a 8th grade reading comprehension level, can go to the threads and see what you said and what I said. And by doing so, would clearly see that you have cut and parsed, distorted and taken both of our remarks out of context, to the point of oblivion.

But in the end so what? The fact that you would engage 4 pages in a quest to show yourself to be the victim of some vast "you're picking on me" conspiracy speaks unflattering volumes about the person tagged Romulus. And quite frankly, you have done far more to reinforce my initial assessment of you as a fragile-egoed, insecure to the point of delusion, attention seeking, drama-junkie, than anything that I could done or would have thought of investing the time into doing.

So my proposal to you is that we move along. Cool?

If not, then STFU and pass the damned greens.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:

Thus far MBM has proven he find that behavior acceptable and since it his site it is his culture.


Uh, no. Just because I don't have the time - or interest really - to moderate every thread doesn't mean that I accept poor behavior here. I have tried to clearly articulate what this site should be about - from its tag line (Intelligent. Black. Community.) to publishing a set of Community Guidelines to posting about how we should interact here to banning people when necessary. I created AfricanAmerica.org as a platform to facilitate lots of dynamic interchange between smart folks who like and want to communicate with others. It is my hope that we've created that - to whatever degree - and that we continue to strive toward that objective.

I do know that as in the world - we all would be better if we kept the Golden Rule in mind. It may sound corny, but it would work! 15


Why not promote a long time trustworthy member as moderator?


19

Perhaps a campaign and election is in order...


DDOUBLE FOR AA.ORG MODERATOR!!!

PUNKS JUMP UP TO GET BEAT DOWN!!!



16
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
censorship? sck


Is this the government or a message board? Confused

And the kinds of "censorship" that is dangerous is the kind that involves curbing the flow of ideas. Curbing the flow of needlessly disruptive behavior is not censorship.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
Curbing the flow of needlessly disruptive behavior is not censorship.


and who is the judge of what is "needlessly disruptive behavior"?


Civilized people who have social skills and don't believe name calling is the first recourse to disagreement.
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
Whatever happened to ignoring what you don't like and responding to what you do?? All of yinz are on Romulus's case but the fact is that he would have no fuel if yinz didn't constantly feed him.


Good point I am always surprised that he actually recieves responses in his threads.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
Civilized people who have social skills and don't believe name calling is the first recourse to disagreement.


"Decent" or "civilized" language can be more offensive than name calling. Therefore, who will be the judge?


It isn't about being offensive or no offensive. It is about people being belligerent, disrespectful and using ad homs instead of responding to the topic at hand. Sometimes you can't help who you offend but you can help being disrespectful and disruptive.
quote:
Originally posted by ocatchings:
DAMMIT!!! Mad
I was going to submit "me" as the ultimate choice for moderator.

lol


Go ahead, throw your hat in the ring catch. I'll debate you! karate

I have some serious stuff I could say about this topic, but I've done that the last five times it came up. ohsnap
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
Whatever happened to ignoring what you don't like and responding to what you do?? All of yinz are on Romulus's case but the fact is that he would have no fuel if yinz didn't constantly feed him.


"Yinz"?! Razz


Isn't that Appalachian-speak for y'all? lol
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
Whatever happened to ignoring what you don't like and responding to what you do?? All of yinz are on Romulus's case but the fact is that he would have no fuel if yinz didn't constantly feed him.


"Yinz"?! Razz


Isn't that Appalachian-speak for y'all? lol


But I'm on ignore.
Outside of these "what's wrong with aa.org" threads, that's pretty much what I've been doing. I just did a search. The last time I had a flame-up with him, outside of this thread and the other threads about "disrespect," was on March 12, 2008, after he personally attacked me over a comment that had nothing to do with him.

Threads like this one are different, because for him to comment on a topic like this is just plain wrong. Unless he's apologizing for how disruptive he's been. But otherwise, my posting history over the last year at least, shows us that wise old saying verily doth ring true: Don't start none, won't be none.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by ocatchings:
DAMMIT!!! Mad
I was going to submit "me" as the ultimate choice for moderator.

lol


Go ahead, throw your hat in the ring catch. I'll debate you! karate

I have some serious stuff I could say about this topic, but I've done that the last five times it came up. ohsnap


My fellow AA.orgers
I am seeking your vote, a vote for hope and change.
A vote for my oponent (DD) would be a vote for the status quo. I ask you, can AA.org deal with 8 more years of failed message board etiquette and policies?

No I say!
My opponent would have you believe that my lack of people skills and compassion for message boarders all over the world is a liability due to my former career. But I want you all to know that I will not sleep until this board is once again a place we can all be pround of for once in our adult lives.

Thank-you and God bless AA.org and the United States of America!

I will now kiss the babies now and accept under the table donations for my campaign.
hat
quote:
It isn't about being offensive or no offensive. It is about people being belligerent, disrespectful and using ad homs instead of responding to the topic at hand. Sometimes you can't help who you offend but you can help being disrespectful and disruptive.


I see...... But what is stopping you from walking away from a thread that you find to be boring, obnoxious or just plain repetitive? Why do you continue to follow it if you find it distasteful? And why do you believe it is your responsibility to pull the plug on posts that you do not approve of or dislike the direction it is heading in? Once again -whatever happen to just ignoring it or walking away?
quote:
Originally posted by Xeon:
quote:
It isn't about being offensive or no offensive. It is about people being belligerent, disrespectful and using ad homs instead of responding to the topic at hand. Sometimes you can't help who you offend but you can help being disrespectful and disruptive.


I see...... But what is stopping you from walking away from a thread that you find to be boring, obnoxious or just plain repetitive? Why do you continue to follow it if you find it distasteful? And why do you believe it is your responsibility to pull the plug on posts that you do not approve of or dislike the direction it is heading in? Once again -whatever happen to just ignoring it or walking away?


Passion, emotion flairs, they say something particularly offensive, these are not easy things to walk away from. And even if you do that doesn't absolve the belligerent member of responsibility for bringing the tone of discussion down.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
So y'all just gonna IGNORE Rodney, huh?? Razz


No one is ignoring Rodney. The thing is, as I've said before, the current situation that's going down on AfricanAmerica.org is a sociological recession. As with the real economic recession that's going on the sociological recession AA.org is experiencing, AA.org isn't just going to bounce back from it's downturn overnight. It's going to take time for the proper groundwork to be applied so that the environment can improve over time.

People that call themselves still being angry over getting their feelings hurt because they stuck their noses into conversations where they shouldn't have stuck them in the first place and got as much, if not more, as they gave are still venting--pretending like they have a thick layer of skin and can take it but will cry and complain about being 'offended' at the drop of a hat the second an opporunity presents itself.

When they learn they can't expect people they've habitually and compulsively attacked to lay down and play dead for their benefit as well as realize that some people are simply not going to always express opinions they agree with the interactions will not only improve but the topics of discussion will broaden as the lurkers that are waiting for the smoke to clear will be more inclined to post. One of the best aspects about BlackTokyo before the discussion board closed down was if someone posted an uninteresting topic it was simply ignored. The members were rarely attacked each other, if at all, for having varying opinions on different topics. That isn't to say that there were no flamewars. They happened from time to time but for the most part the members simply ignored beefs between members. They didn't feel the need to add more fuel to the fire by involving themselves in a matter that was none of their business or gang attacking people because they have an unpopular opinion.

Yeah, yeah, I know. "This ain't BlackTokyo" but if you truly want the atmosphere to improve the aforementioned is an option to consider.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
.....I think the fear is that someone with clear alliances will get the job and discriminate against others.

Honestly, I just wish we could get folks to police themselves, to model good behavior for others, and to take the high road more often than not.


yeah thanks

"Wisdom Is A Woman Who Agrees!"
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Romulus,

I propose that we, you and I ... but mostly you ... let this sh!t go. I could go back and cut and paste from each of those threads and conclusively dispute each and every one of your points as factually and/or intellectually dishonest.

But the fact is I have no interest in doing so ... it just ain't that important. [I][and no ... this is not some backhanded admission of that you have bested me] [/I] The fact is, anyone that has an interest, and a 8th grade reading comprehension level, can go to the threads and see what you said and what I said. And by doing so, would clearly see that you have cut and parsed, distorted and taken both of our remarks out of context, to the point of oblivion.

But in the end so what? The fact that you would engage 4 pages in a quest to show yourself to be the victim of some vast "you're picking on me" conspiracy speaks unflattering volumes about the person tagged Romulus. And quite frankly, you have done far more to reinforce my initial assessment of you as a fragile-egoed, insecure to the point of delusion, attention seeking, drama-junkie, than anything that I could done or would have thought of investing the time into doing.

So my proposal to you is that we move along. Cool?

If not, then STFU and pass the damned greens.




Son, the laws of socioelectronic physics do not apply to me. I am a proverbial dead man walking on AfricanAmerica.org by design not by error. These empty charges of my being "desperate" or "playing the victim" are pathetic and ineffective. Everybody hates me remember? And people that play the victim role or act out of desperation do so because they feel they have something to lose such as, in the case of being a member on this discussion board, social status and comradery. I have no desire for either considering, first of all, the necessity to facilitate healthy relationships is fulfilled with face-to-face, real world interactions. Secondly, one already has to abide by the sociological rules as mandated by society in order to maintain healthy relationships as it is, which means one either has to keep his or her thoughts and opinions to themselves or fabricate personality characteristics that would be more acceptable by the general populus in order to peacefully coexist. In that regard it isn't necessary to restrict my thoughts and opinions on a discussion board, particularly since the idea of joining a discussion board is the expression of thoughts and opinions.

With that being said, your feable attempts to lie, distort, redirect, deny, evade, deflect, deviate and distract are futile. You cannot deny, deflect or deviate from the truth, kweli4real. You were forced to concede to the person you chose to make your adversary and in every case you came out the loser. The person you conceded to was me and it's burning you to the core. The truth hurts and it's a jagged pill to swallow. In your arrogance and pomposity you challenged every idea I presented and you did so without any knowledge or evidence to support your opposing position. Furthermore, in your blind overconfidence you utilized uncalled for, excessive insults. Therefore, you suffered the consequences for your overbearing obnoxiousness, arrogance, insolence, and ignorance.

If it wasn't that serious, if it "ain't that important", then why did you waste over two years of your time trying to oppose every idea I presented? If it "ain't that important", why are you working so hard to defend yourself against what you consider to be intellectually dishonest? The fact is, you cannot wish away the truth. You cannot STFU the truth. No amount of support from other members can make the truth disappear. No amount of lying or distorting can lessen the blow to your ego. You can't deviate from the fact that you didn't know Florida state personnel have the right to use reasonable force to restrain students. You can't deny that you didn't know there were psychologists that had the credentials to write prescription for drugs. You can't distort the fact that not only do banks have a fudiciary responsibility to protect their customers' identity, they can also do engage in the act of restoring their customers' identity as some banks have been advertising that fact at least since 2005. You can't lie you way out of this, kweli4real.

The best you can do is simply stop contaminating future threads with obviously childish behavior.
quote:
Originally posted by kweli4real:

I could go back and cut and paste from each of those threads and conclusively dispute each and every one of your points as factually and/or intellectually dishonest.


So, you're denying every statement I quoted you as having said on the previous page?

You're saying I made up all of those statements I quoted you as having said?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

No one has to waste their time sifting through all of those threads. All you have to do is say that I lied--I made up all of those statements I'm charging you with having made.

It's easy. Just say it. Every single statement I quoted you as saying is a LIE.

Those statements never existed--right?

Except there's one little technicality. You can't erase the sections of your statements I quoted in the original threads you made those statements in.

I have nothing to hide. I invite everyone to look through the threads. That's why I posted LINKS so they can see for themselves. But as you said: "It ain't that serious." So why would you be worried?

No one would entertain the notion of looking through the threads anyway to find the truth because they all have faith in you, kweli4real, and your word is bond--right?


Just think. All of this can end if you end the unecessary attacks. None of this would have ever happened if you hadn't chosen first to be, as you said: "stupid" to begin with. If you don't have anything good to say just leave the thread alone. If the urge to challenge me overcomes you, then bring evidence to support your argument. At least ask for clarification first. Make it a learning experience instead of a pissing match. You'd be amazed at what you could learn.
So does that mean you're not gonna pass the greens? Roll Eyes giveup

quote:
Just think. All of this can end if you end the unecessary attacks. None of this would have ever happened if you hadn't chosen first to be, as you said: "stupid" to begin with. If you don't have anything good to say just leave the thread alone. If the urge to challenge me overcomes you, then bring evidence to support your argument. At least ask for clarification first. Make it a learning experience instead of a pissing match. You'd be amazed at what you could learn.


But just for the record ... No, nevermind. Just pass the greens.
quote:
OIC... Guilty as charged... at least in this thread. And point well taken, too.


I'm not trying to try or convict, especially not in our exchange here. Personally, I'm honest enough with myself to know that my message board time is both deep conversation *business* (whenever one can be had) and flame throwing *pleasure.* I prefer the former but I've come to accept the latter.


quote:
I like your overall suggestion, though.


All I'm doing is expressing my thoughts on the matter and trying to expand on my original post per your request. If anyone wants to accept those thoughts as a suggestion and then follow them, sobeit.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
So does that mean you're not gonna pass the greens? Roll Eyes giveup

quote:
Just think. All of this can end if you end the unecessary attacks. None of this would have ever happened if you hadn't chosen first to be, as you said: "stupid" to begin with. If you don't have anything good to say just leave the thread alone. If the urge to challenge me overcomes you, then bring evidence to support your argument. At least ask for clarification first. Make it a learning experience instead of a pissing match. You'd be amazed at what you could learn.


But just for the record ... No, nevermind. Just pass the greens.



No thanks. I don't care for greens. However, I do have an insatiable appetite for the truth.


Pass THE TRUTH please.

Did you make the statements I quoted you as saying or not?

You can't even hide behind the distractors of 'what Romulus said' and 'what Romulus did' in order to make a lame attempt to redirect the attention away from your lack of integrity and ignorance and place it on me. The truth still stands.

You can't bluff your way out of this by pretending to stand behind the archives in hopes that no one will bother to actually see for themselves what a liar and a flim flam artist you are. Your defense is worthless considering I already provided multiple links to every thread I referred to where I shamed you for thinking you could challenge my knowledge without having any evidence or knowledge to support your opposing arguments. Sad--you didn't even have the common sense to understand that laws vary from state to state before you made the uninformed assertion that state personnel in Florida had the right to use reasonable force to restrain a child. That was right up your alley--you're a lawyer and you got owned by a "substitute teacher".


Everyone is witnessing your gross lack of integrity and ignorance right here in this very thread. Whether they want to admit to it or not is irrelevant. You're so mired in lying, deceiving, deflecting, distorting, exagerating, and denying, you can't even give a simple yes or no answer.


In fact, you can't give an answer at all. Just more empty, worthless, powerless, pointless insults. I've asked you simple questions and instead of giving a straight answer you ignore the questions and insert more distractors in the effort to bluff your way out of facing the truth.

Are the statements I quoted you as saying true or false?

You can't hide behind a false excuse like your words being taken out of context.

You either said: "There's no such animal as a psychologist that can write prescriptions" or you didn't.

You either said: "Not true" when I said state personnel have the right to use reasonable force to restrain children or you didn't.

You either said: "banks don't have fudiciary responsibility to restore their customers' identity" or you didn't.


You see, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. It doesn't matter what kind of false labels you assign to this issue--this isn't a beef, this isn't a flamewar. This is simply Romulus Burnett making kweli4real face the truth. It doesn't matter how much you lie. It doesn't matter how many times you ignore answering simple questions. What matters is you know you made yourself look like a fool for challenging my knowledge and coming out the loser every time.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
If this isn't a example for the need of a banning.


How? Where are the insults? Do you see any insults in my exchange? Do you even see any off color words? Is it wrong to demand the truth? Tell me why you think this is an example of my needing to be banned? Because you don't appreciate someone you like being confronted with not having the ability to tell the truth? Tell me why you think this exchange is inappropriate?

Why weren't you present to demand that liediecryptor be banned after that long and exhausted exchange between him and Oshun Auset? Why weren't you present to demand that negrospiritual be banned after her long dispute with Rowe? Why weren't you present to demand that fabulous be banned after that long, drawn out flame war between her and ricardomath?

Where were you?

Why didn't you demand Whirling Moat to be banned after his exchange with khaliqua? Why? What say you?
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
If this isn't a example for the need of a banning.


How? Where are the insults? Do you see any insults in my exchange? Do you even see any off color words? Is it wrong to demand the truth? Tell me why you think this is an example of my needing to be banned? Because you don't appreciate someone you like being confronted with not having the ability to tell the truth? Tell me why you think this exchange is inappropriate?

Why weren't you present to demand that liediecryptor be banned after that long and exhausted exchange between him and Oshun Auset? Why weren't you present to demand that negrospiritual be banned after her long dispute with Rowe? Why weren't you present to demand that fabulous be banned after that long, drawn out flame war between her and ricardomath?

Where were you?

Why didn't you demand Whirling Moat to be banned after his exchange with khaliqua? Why? What say you?


I'm speaking more to a consistent pattern of behavior.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Why weren't you present to demand that fabulous be banned after that long, drawn out flame war between her and ricardomath?


So you are my defender now, huh?

karate

Cool...I feel much better now with Ironhorse securely in my corner, looking out for me...

lol munch 20
quote:
No thanks. I don't care for greens. However, I do have an insatiable appetite for the truth.


Romulus, this is Proof and proof again of everything that I've said about you. I ask YOU to pass ME the greens and you respond:
quote:
I don't care for greens
i.e., making it again all about your fragile-egoed, insecure to the point of delusion, attention seeking, drama-junkie a$$. YOU ARE INSUFFERABLE IN YOUR DELUSION. Yes that was personal AND inflammatory ... run tell that.
Again, those that have an interest can read the thread, in its entirety, rather than your parsing cut and paste. They then can come to their own conclusion. I'm satisfied with that.

That entire post is/was merely a transparent attempt at baiting me back into your delusion, even after I've declared that I'm done with that topic.

Kweli wonders aloud ... shaking his head I'd bet in elementary school and maybe even today, Romulus got his a$$ beat on the regular because his attention seeking, "all about me" a$$ wouldn't just let someone walk away.

quote:
I think what we should do is end this thread and see what anyone takes with them from it when they post on regular topic discussion threads.


I agree ... I know how I will proceed. That's enough for me.
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
I ask YOU to pass ME the greens and you respond:
quote:
I don't care for greens

lol 20

Cut it out KWELI... Don't you realize RB just made a "clerical error?"
20

Or no, wait, even better:

"You're being so dishonest and disruptive, Kweli4FAKE. Obviously, if I say I don't CARE for greens when you ask me to PASS them, I'm saying I'm passing them to you because I don't want any. I don't care for greens, so yes, I'll pass them.

This shows how blah blah blah... "
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
DDouble, you sir, have my vote!!!! Big Grin


I like ddouble.

But (and no disrespect or malice intended) ... dddouble is not all that impartial ... he only plays one on a message board.


None taken.

The current "problem" is a result of the board being "laissez faire". Self-policing has been a failure. Until concrete standards are in place, this type of thread will keep cropping up.

In my opinion, a good moderator works to keep conversations flowing. Based on the Intelligent. Black. Community. mission of the board, I think a good moderator would do the following:

1)Monitor all "hot" threads; the portal page ID's topics getting the most views.

2)Take over responsibility for reviewing all reported posts.

3)Create a clear definition of flaming, baiting and other trolling tactics. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

4)Create a corrective action sequence for members that violate 3). This would include warnings by PM, warnings within thread, temporary bans as well as permanent bans. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

5)Move threads to The Big House, delete posts within or lock in original forum (on a temporary or permanent basis) based on how quickly it devolves vs. quality information within.

None of these would prevent healthy debate or discussion. Everyone would have a guideline of permissable behavior on this board.

Then the choice would be simple: follow the rules or find another board to frequent.

If "bias" is a potential worry, choose a willing member that you believe to be a good counter-balance to the other moderator(s). If no one else is willing to do this work for the board, then IMO, the worries about bias are over-inflated.

I enjoy AA.org in its totality enough to commit to the thankless task of moderation. I would hope there are other people here that share my opinion.


P.S. - Props to you catch! That was some funny stuff! beer
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
DDouble, you sir, have my vote!!!! Big Grin


I like ddouble.

But (and no disrespect or malice intended) ... dddouble is not all that impartial ... he only plays one on a message board.


None taken.

The current "problem" is a result of the board being "laissez faire". Self-policing has been a failure. Until concrete standards are in place, this type of thread will keep cropping up.


I disagree that self-policing has been a failure.

From my perspective this board is a lot better than it used to be.

It has room for improvement. But that's life.

If you look at the religion forum (for example) it's a lot less contentious than it used to be.

The same for the dating forums. Let's be honest ... if Romulus or RadioRaheem are nowhere around the dating forums are not bad.

On the whole, I think the tone and level of discussion are a lot better. So is the overall level of respect we show to one another. Some respectable critical thinking occurs on this board ... and I believe that it is better than it was. It has improved.

Not too long ago someone was complaining because we used too many big words.

You know what?

You can't please everyone... especially when the biggest complainers have little to complain about given the example that they set.

quote:

In my opinion, a good moderator works to keep conversations flowing. Based on the Intelligent. Black. Community. mission of the board, I think a good moderator would do the following:

1)Monitor all "hot" threads; the portal page ID's topics getting the most views.

2)Take over responsibility for reviewing all reported posts.

3)Create a clear definition of flaming, baiting and other trolling tactics. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

4)Create a corrective action sequence for members that violate 3). This would include warnings by PM, warnings within thread, temporary bans as well as permanent bans. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

5)Move threads to The Big House, delete posts within or lock in original forum (on a temporary or permanent basis) based on how quickly it devolves vs. quality information within.

None of these would prevent healthy debate or discussion. Everyone would have a guideline of permissable behavior on this board.

Then the choice would be simple: follow the rules or find another board to frequent.

If "bias" is a potential worry, choose a willing member that you believe to be a good counter-balance to the other moderator(s). If no one else is willing to do this work for the board, then IMO, the worries about bias are over-inflated.

I enjoy AA.org in its totality enough to commit to the thankless task of moderation. I would hope there are other people here that share my opinion.


P.S. - Props to you catch! That was some funny stuff! beer



Ok. Might not hurt. May be even an improvement. I just don't think it's all that necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
DDouble, you sir, have my vote!!!! Big Grin


I like ddouble.

But (and no disrespect or malice intended) ... dddouble is not all that impartial ... he only plays one on a message board.


None taken.

The current "problem" is a result of the board being "laissez faire". Self-policing has been a failure. Until concrete standards are in place, this type of thread will keep cropping up.


I disagree that self-policing has been a failure.

From my perspective this board is a lot better than it used to be.

It has room for improvement. But that's life.

If you look at the religion forum (for example) it's a lot less contentious than it used to be.

The same for the dating forums. Let's be honest ... if Romulus or RadioRaheem are nowhere around the dating forums are not bad.

On the whole, I think the tone and level of discussion are a lot better. So is the overall level of respect we show to one another. Some respectable critical thinking occurs on this board ... and I believe that it is better than it was. It has improved.

Not too long ago someone was complaining because we used too many big words.

You know what?

You can't please everyone... especially when the biggest complainers have little to complain about given the example that they set.

quote:

In my opinion, a good moderator works to keep conversations flowing. Based on the Intelligent. Black. Community. mission of the board, I think a good moderator would do the following:

1)Monitor all "hot" threads; the portal page ID's topics getting the most views.

2)Take over responsibility for reviewing all reported posts.

3)Create a clear definition of flaming, baiting and other trolling tactics. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

4)Create a corrective action sequence for members that violate 3). This would include warnings by PM, warnings within thread, temporary bans as well as permanent bans. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

5)Move threads to The Big House, delete posts within or lock in original forum (on a temporary or permanent basis) based on how quickly it devolves vs. quality information within.

None of these would prevent healthy debate or discussion. Everyone would have a guideline of permissable behavior on this board.

Then the choice would be simple: follow the rules or find another board to frequent.

If "bias" is a potential worry, choose a willing member that you believe to be a good counter-balance to the other moderator(s). If no one else is willing to do this work for the board, then IMO, the worries about bias are over-inflated.

I enjoy AA.org in its totality enough to commit to the thankless task of moderation. I would hope there are other people here that share my opinion.


P.S. - Props to you catch! That was some funny stuff! beer



Ok. Might not hurt. May be even an improvement. I just don't think it's all that necessary.


I'll volunteer to be a moderator too, if MBM decides to have moderators. If there are three moderators, and there came a question of whether a thread needed to be moved to the Big House, or member put in the "corrective action sequence," there should be a real-time conversation (not a thread) on it, and a vote. The least biased members who want to moderate should do it, and then the vote between the three should quell whatever fears anyone has about whatever lingering bias may be left.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I disagree that self-policing has been a failure.

From my perspective this board is a lot better than it used to be.

It has room for improvement. But that's life.

If you look at the religion forum (for example) it's a lot less contentious than it used to be.

The same for the dating forums. Let's be honest ... if Romulus or RadioRaheem are nowhere around the dating forums are not bad.

On the whole, I think the tone and level of discussion are a lot better. So is the overall level of respect we show to one another.

Not to long go someone was complaining because we used too many big words.

You know what?

You can't please everyone... especially when the biggest complainers have little to complain about given the example that they set.



Ok. Might not hurt. May be even an improvement. I just don't think it's that necessary.



Things aren't better, just cyclical.

The reason I say self-policing doesn't work can be tied to the parts of your quote I bolded. You are talking about preference. You and others don't care for some of the topics or manner of presentation from these two (and others). But other posters feel the same way about you and other members at AA.org.

What happens? Typically, we voice our disapproval of a topic or presentation style in correlation to how much we "like" a poster. Ideally, a person would ignore any topic where they cannot refrain from using trolling tactics.

But to be honest, that behavior is the exception.

So a good moderator helps us when we cannot (or will not) help ourselves.
16
quote:
My fellow AA.orgers
I am seeking your vote, a vote for hope and change.
A vote for my oponent (DD) would be a vote for the status quo. I ask you, can AA.org deal with 8 more years of failed message board etiquette and policies?

No I say!
My opponent would have you believe that my lack of people skills and compassion for message boarders all over the world is a liability due to my former career. But I want you all to know that I will not sleep until this board is once again a place we can all be pround of for once in our adult lives.

Thank-you and God bless AA.org and the United States of America!

I will now kiss the babies now and accept under the table donations for my campaign.


daz

quote:
In my opinion, a good moderator works to keep conversations flowing. Based on the Intelligent. Black. Community. mission of the board, I think a good moderator would do the following:

1)Monitor all "hot" threads; the portal page ID's topics getting the most views.

2)Take over responsibility for reviewing all reported posts.

3)Create a clear definition of flaming, baiting and other trolling tactics. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

4)Create a corrective action sequence for members that violate 3). This would include warnings by PM, warnings within thread, temporary bans as well as permanent bans. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

5)Move threads to The Big House, delete posts within or lock in original forum (on a temporary or permanent basis) based on how quickly it devolves vs. quality information within.

None of these would prevent healthy debate or discussion. Everyone would have a guideline of permissable behavior on this board.

Then the choice would be simple: follow the rules or find another board to frequent.


daz

Let's see ... One candidate hits all of the political buzzwords AND kisses babies; while the other offers not only concrete solutions, but outlines the assumptions underlying his conclusions.

daz 19

This is a no brainer choice ...

I cast the full weight of my endorsement for the First and Next Moderator of this Great Place, AA.Org ...

beerOCATCHINGS beerDa - Da, Da, Da - Da - Da ...

Now O ... You got my endorsement, but more importantly, you cashed my check ... So when you gonna announce my appointment to the Directorship of the DOFV [Department of Ostracism Favoritism & Victimization]?
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

Things aren't better, just cyclical.

The reason I say self-policing doesn't work can be tied to the parts of your quote I bolded. You are talking about preference. You and others don't care for some of the topics or manner of presentation from these two (and others). But other posters feel the same way about you and other members at AA.org.

What happens? Typically, we voice our disapproval of a topic or presentation style in correlation to how much we "like" a poster. Ideally, a person would ignore any topic where they cannot refrain from using trolling tactics.

But to be honest, that behavior is the exception.

So a good moderator helps us when we cannot (or will not) help ourselves.
16



There is some merit to what you're saying.

But on the whole, things are indeed better.
Well, with the exception of Mr. Chester, I believe the members mentioned (for moderator/s) would not only show favoritism but also 'power trip'. td6

As to whether or not things are better, it's ALL a matter of opinion.

All anyone can do is speak for his or her 'self'.

Personally, I believe the board is much better than it used to be and folk seem to enjoy the constant negativity that romulous brings to the table.

for some THAT's entertainment. Roll Eyes

AND as long as folk don't start none (with me) won't be none (with me).
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

daz One candidate hits all of the political buzzwords AND kisses babies; while the offers not only concrete solutions, but outlines the assumptions underlying his conclusions.

This is a no brainer choice ...

I cast the full weight of my endorsement for the First and Next Moderator of this Great Place, AA.Org ...

OCATCHINGS Da - Da, Da, Da, Da - Da ...

Now O ... You got my endorsement, but more importantly, you cashed my check ... So when you gonna announce my appointment to the Directorship of the DOFV [Department of Ostracism Favoritism & Victimization]?


Don't worry Kweli. You can always get on the ddouble bandwagon once I beat out catch in the primaries! lol
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Well, with the exception of Mr. Chester, I believe the members mentioned (for moderator/s) would not only show favoritism but also 'power trip'. td6

As to whether or not things are better, it's ALL a matter of opinion. All anyone can do is speak for his or her self.


I agree with the bolded part. All any of us do on AA.org is speak for ourselves.

No one is infallible or bias free. That is why I suggested a team of moderators. If MBM goes this route, whoever he chooses would be accused of "tripping" or being unfair at some point.

Comes along with being a moderator.

munch
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

So a good moderator helps us when we cannot (or will not) help ourselves.
16


Ddouble .. you're the one who didn't think female posters should have posted in a thread addressed to female posters ... even apart from the merits of having closed forums for men and women.

There may be times when we can't help ourselves even when we should be better ... but that's life ... and I don't have a great deal of faith in your objectivity and your ability to make it better for us.

And that's not personal ... because I don't have a great deal of faith in any one person's ability to make it better for us.
I won't debate your interpretation of my intent in that thread. I do believe you misunderstood though.

There are no rules now HB. When firm rules are in place, it makes your argument moot IMO. Everyone will be obligated to abide by the standards set by the moderating team or leave.

I'm very curious to see what MBM has to say and whether he'll actually consider the people who have offered to help. munch
I don't have faith in either one of the people volunteering to moderate. please.

I think MBM does just fine on his own. . . choosing a moderator from this group would only cause MORE problems (imo) and cause some of the regular posters (that we do have) to leave.

Vox just recently insulted Koco for no damn reason (IMHO) and DDouble hasn't been posting 'regularly' in a while but sure pops up whenever there's drama. Roll Eyes
And I disagree,

there ARE rules in place (set forth by the FOUNDER himself)...

You can't get any more concrete RULES than those set by the man who keeps the board going.

all folk have to do is f.o.l.l.o.w them.

I, for one, will read them 'again' to refresh my memory.

I'll gladly leave before tripping with some moderator (who is ego trippin' & wouldn't be fair in the first place).
I think what Nmaginate best summed up the "problem" for most of us on the board when he said:
quote:
my message board time is both deep conversation *business* (whenever one can be had) and flame throwing *pleasure.* I prefer the former but I've come to accept the latter.


The problem only comes up because some take this Message Board stuff way too seriously and way, way too personally.

It is, IMHO, a maturity issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
My fellow AA.orgers
I am seeking your vote, a vote for hope and change.
A vote for my oponent (DD) would be a vote for the status quo. I ask you, can AA.org deal with 8 more years of failed message board etiquette and policies?

No I say!
My opponent would have you believe that my lack of people skills and compassion for message boarders all over the world is a liability due to my former career. But I want you all to know that I will not sleep until this board is once again a place we can all be pround of for once in our adult lives.

Thank-you and God bless AA.org and the United States of America!

I will now kiss the babies now and accept under the table donations for my campaign.


daz

quote:
In my opinion, a good moderator works to keep conversations flowing. Based on the Intelligent. Black. Community. mission of the board, I think a good moderator would do the following:

1)Monitor all "hot" threads; the portal page ID's topics getting the most views.

2)Take over responsibility for reviewing all reported posts.

3)Create a clear definition of flaming, baiting and other trolling tactics. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

4)Create a corrective action sequence for members that violate 3). This would include warnings by PM, warnings within thread, temporary bans as well as permanent bans. This would be stickied at the top of each forum.

5)Move threads to The Big House, delete posts within or lock in original forum (on a temporary or permanent basis) based on how quickly it devolves vs. quality information within.

None of these would prevent healthy debate or discussion. Everyone would have a guideline of permissable behavior on this board.

Then the choice would be simple: follow the rules or find another board to frequent.


daz

Let's see ... One candidate hits all of the political buzzwords AND kisses babies; while the other offers not only concrete solutions, but outlines the assumptions underlying his conclusions.

daz 19

This is a no brainer choice ...

I cast the full weight of my endorsement for the First and Next Moderator of this Great Place, AA.Org ...

beerOCATCHINGS beerDa - Da, Da, Da - Da - Da ...

Now O ... You got my endorsement, but more importantly, you cashed my check ... So when you gonna announce my appointment to the Directorship of the DOFV [Department of Ostracism Favoritism & Victimization]?


Right after the election I will put together a phony committee to go through the motions of vetting a potential cabinet. Don't worry, your post is in the bag. tfro
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Well, with the exception of Mr. Chester, I believe the members mentioned (for moderator/s) would not only show favoritism but also 'power trip'. td6

As to whether or not things are better, it's ALL a matter of opinion. All anyone can do is speak for his or her self.


I agree with the bolded part. All any of us do on AA.org is speak for ourselves.

No one is infallible or bias free. That is why I suggested a team of moderators. If MBM goes this route, whoever he chooses would be accused of "tripping" or being unfair at some point.

Comes along with being a moderator.

munch


If possible an odd number of moderators for a majority vote on issues, banning and such. If we have an even number, MBM will be the moral authority of the land.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
I think what Nmaginate best summed up the "problem" for most of us on the board when he said:
quote:
my message board time is both deep conversation *business* (whenever one can be had) and flame throwing *pleasure.* I prefer the former but I've come to accept the latter.


The problem only comes up because some take this Message Board stuff way too seriously and way, way too personally.

It is, IMHO, a maturity issue.



It is perhaps a maturity issue.

But I find it a bit contradictory to say on the one hand ... "It's just a message board. You take things too seriously" ... or "It's just a message board .. I'm not being serious when I say such and such" ... and then on other hand seemingly take it seriously enough to propose a moderator when someone doesn't seem to be able to engage at the proper level of seriousness.

It is perhaps a maturity issue.

But that's life. On or off a message board.

Quite frankly ... I wish people would stop prefacing their thoughts with "It's just a message board ..." ... especially if they're not going to be consistent with the sentiment ...
quote:
But I find it a bit contradictory to say on the one hand ... "It's just a message board. You take things too seriously" ... or "It's just a message board .. I'm not being serious when I say such and such" ... and then on other hand seemingly take it seriously enough to propose a moderator when someone doesn't seem to be able to engage at the proper level of seriousness.


When have I ever called for a moderator?

But more, I don't need/want a moderator here, any more than I would want one off-line.

Bottomline, [for me, anyway] we all choose whether to engage or ignore folks. When they get stupid with it, we then are faced with that choice again. We engage stupidity for fun ... when it is no longer fun, we disengage. Period.

Nowhere in life, on or off-line, do I call for a moderator.

I have, however, solicited assessments as to whether it is ME that is acting stupidly, when I have even the slightest question. And where my solicitees have told me that it is me, I back off.

And when it gets too stupid, we will all disengage of whether to engage or ignore.
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
how long does this msb exist without moderators and why could it grow and survive for years?
I know of a lot of message boards that have thrived for years; are much busier than this one; and have very active moderators.

quote:
Originally posted by HONESTBROTHER:
I find it a bit contradictory to say on the one hand ... "It's just a message board. You take things too seriously" ... or "It's just a message board .. I'm not being serious when I say such and such" ... and then on other hand seemingly take it seriously enough to propose a moderator when someone doesn't seem to be able to engage at the proper level of seriousness.
The proper level of seriousness?

Or a reasonable level of non-disruptiveness? I don't care whether we have moderators or not (though I lean toward liking the idea), but I don't see any contradiction between saying "People shouldn't be disruptive" vs. "People take the board too seriously." If anything, the people who take it too seriously tend to be the most disruptive members.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
But I find it a bit contradictory to say on the one hand ... "It's just a message board. You take things too seriously" ... or "It's just a message board .. I'm not being serious when I say such and such" ... and then on other hand seemingly take it seriously enough to propose a moderator when someone doesn't seem to be able to engage at the proper level of seriousness.


When have I ever called for a moderator?

But more, I don't need/want a moderator here, any more than I would want one off-line.


Peace. I didn't mean to take a swipe at you.


quote:

Bottomline, [for me, anyway] we all choose whether to engage or ignore folks. When they get stupid with it, we then are faced with that choice again. We engage stupidity for fun ... when it is no longer fun, we disengage. Period.

Nowhere in life, on or off-line, do I call for a moderator.

I have, however, solicited assessments as to whether it is ME that is acting stupidly, when I have even the slightest question. And where my solicitees have told me that it is me, I back off.

And when it gets too stupid, we will all disengage of whether to engage or ignore.



Well said.
Final Thoughts (until MBM interjects again)


Letting go of grudges would go a long way toward not needing a moderator. Not assuming motives, reading (and re-reading) what someone writes and answering the questions actually asked would help too.

I enjoy watching group dynamics, so whatever happens, no worries on my end.

I'll just bump or link to this thread when this issue comes up again.

hat
quote:
Letting go of grudges would go a long way toward not needing a moderator. Not assuming motives, reading (and re-reading) what someone writes and answering the questions actually asked would help too.


yeah And for the record my disagreeing with you on THIS thread, is in no way indicative of my holding a grudge from another thread ... it just means I disagree.
See there you go being all disrespectful and disruptive. All you had to do was ask for clarification, but no. You had to jump to that completely uninformed and totally biased opinion. And, proved yourself ... again ... to be carrying a grudge ... just because, you would have them folks believe that you didn't know that I spanked that a$$ in Fantasy Football. LOL. Only a rookie in the play playa [I]oops ... I meant PLAYA PLAYA ... that was obviously a clerical error.[/I] world would fall for that okey doke trick.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
He should just let me moderate and clean up house. I dislike just about everyone here, I'm completely unbiased.


*dead*

quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
DDouble hasn't been posting 'regularly' in a while but sure pops up whenever there's drama. Roll Eyes


yeah

quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
how long does this msb exist without moderators and why could it grow and survive for years?
I know of a lot of message boards that have thrived for years; are much busier than this one; and have very active moderators.


True.. In my experience, they usually came about at board inception or as a result of a mass exodus of members...



quote:


quote:
Originally posted by HONESTBROTHER:
I find it a bit contradictory to say on the one hand ... "It's just a message board. You take things too seriously" ... or "It's just a message board .. I'm not being serious when I say such and such" ... and then on other hand seemingly take it seriously enough to propose a moderator when someone doesn't seem to be able to engage at the proper level of seriousness.
The proper level of seriousness?

Or a reasonable level of non-disruptiveness? I don't care whether we have moderators or not (though I lean toward liking the idea), but I don't see any contradiction between saying "People shouldn't be disruptive" vs. "People take the board too seriously." If anything, the people who take it too seriously tend to be the most disruptive members.


I agree.. the problem is often those assessing "disruptiveness" (not a word I don't think) are often disruptive themselves.. depending upon their moods.. and whether or not they agree with another's position.. often conveniently forgetting their own foray into immaturity and goading...

I think MBM would like a community akin to some of the intellectual boards I've seen (often white sck ) but they too have serious bias.. often booting people whose position they disagree... but are only "disruptive" to the extent that they will not change their position...

but on one black board the moderators are not participants.. and they close down a thread and repost the summaries of the essentials of the arguments so the points can continue but the personal attacks do not.. and are no longer visible... especially if a good topic has gotten swept under the rug..

that way people who find themselves immersed in an argument don't have to be "booted" for having a personal opinion or defending themselves.. and others do not lose the benefit of good topics....

Banning should be reserved for things that completely alter the nature of the board... we had someone post nude pics of themselves as an avatar.. that was not congruent with the image of the board for instance... and it was difficult for people to scroll through posts without becoming embarrassed.. stuff like that..

Even trolls (e.g. stormfront) are fun to play with from time to time.. they can just be sent to the Big House...

I think topics like this do more harm than good sometimes.. (even though I'm participating in this one.. sck )... I think people get in a huff when they want to force someone else to stop posting.. that's all..

honestly, if all of the "core" members left tomorrow.. there would be a new crop of members who will go through the same ebb and flow... personalities/values WILL clash...

no one likes the negative energy of an argument.. I agree.. but I think if it's all that then just have a closed off big house where no one can see the argument .. lol..

put the offending thread in a non visible forum section and have errybody deal with their issues there...

time out for everyone...

but I really think all of this is much a do about nothing...
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
So y'all just gonna IGNORE Rodney, huh?? Razz


No one is ignoring Rodney. The thing is, as I've said before, the current situation that's going down on AfricanAmerica.org is a sociological recession. As with the real economic recession that's going on the sociological recession AA.org is experiencing, AA.org isn't just going to bounce back from it's downturn overnight. It's going to take time for the proper groundwork to be applied so that the environment can improve over time.

People that call themselves still being angry over getting their feelings hurt because they stuck their noses into conversations where they shouldn't have stuck them in the first place and got as much, if not more, as they gave are still venting--pretending like they have a thick layer of skin and can take it but will cry and complain about being 'offended' at the drop of a hat the second an opporunity presents itself.

When they learn they can't expect people they've habitually and compulsively attacked to lay down and play dead for their benefit as well as realize that some people are simply not going to always express opinions they agree with the interactions will not only improve but the topics of discussion will broaden as the lurkers that are waiting for the smoke to clear will be more inclined to post. One of the best aspects about BlackTokyo before the discussion board closed down was if someone posted an uninteresting topic it was simply ignored. The members were rarely attacked each other, if at all, for having varying opinions on different topics. That isn't to say that there were no flamewars. They happened from time to time but for the most part the members simply ignored beefs between members. They didn't feel the need to add more fuel to the fire by involving themselves in a matter that was none of their business or gang attacking people because they have an unpopular opinion.


First, you are singing to the choir. I have been on the receiving end of that behavior for years now ... so, the best I can do for you is grab a violin and give you some accompaniment.

quote:
Yeah, yeah, I know. "This ain't BlackTokyo" but if you truly want the atmosphere to improve the aforementioned is an option to consider.


Secondly, I understand, I concur, and I empathize with what you have written above. As far as I'm concerned, you have stated your position most effectively ... and now I'm going to give you the best advice I have at this point:

Play the cards you have been dealt. ‘Cause you’re not going to get any more.

AA.org is what it is, RB. And it is going to remain that way. I learned that lesson the hard way. But learn it I did.

We used to have a poster here who made your little tirades (even the vulgar ones) seem like a Mother Goose Nursery Rhyme. And when I had to go deep into the bowels of hell to meet my attacker on his level and defend myself from what turned out to be an intolerable amount of the worst kind of disrespect, I was the one told that I needed to curb my behavior and be the bigger man. sck

That was when I realized that the only thing that was going to change around here was ME.

Although it was pretty much unanimously agreed that the barrage of various bitches, cunts and hos that I had to endure being called was more than a little over the top, it was not going to be put to a stop ... by anybody else but me. I had to decide whether or not the benefits of the AA.org community (and, as you know, there are many) was worth having my honor and my dignity so viciously attacked. I chose that it wasn't ... and decided instead that it was time to leave the board.

That poster eventually took it upon himself to leave the community as well .. and if he hadn't, I wouldn't be here talking to you today, because I wouldn’t have come back and subjected myself to such verbal abuse if he were still here. I had to show respect for myself if I was going to expect that any was coming my way.

You get what you get here, my friend. The good, the bad, the bitter, and the sweet of it … all rolled up into one dynamically diverse package. This is a great site where all of us have an opportunity to interact with what I consider to be a phenomenal collection of individuals. We all have something to share and to gain by being here. And I have always had a belief that the potential for something ‘extraordinary’ to come out of this unusual group of characters is present and strong .. even though no such reality has manifested itself as of yet.

But you will have to decide whether or not your benefits outweigh your negatives – and the site most definitely has it’s share of those as well. You can *wish* that the board was different, or the people were different, or that the answer to Rodney's question is ever going to be a "yes" all you want to ... but the plain and simple reality is that all it’s ever going to be is just that … an unfruitful, unrealized wish. And you either accept that fact, and remain to enjoy the plus-side factors that your membership entitles you to … or you don’t and go find yourself another cyberspace nest to call home. But I can tell you it gets a lot easier once you swallow that (rather bitter) pill and understand that what you see is what you get.

I see you are coming up on your 2-year anniversary ... so I’m trying to give you the benefit of realizing that choice sooner than I was able to. But those are your only two choices ... believe me on that. “CHANGE you can believe in” may be engulfing the rest of the world … but DO NOT get your expectations up that it will come to AA.org any time soon.

Over the years, some of the more argumentative people, on their own, either mature, mellow out, or just get tired of fighting the same fight. And some don't. Others are who they are and at least you learn from them what to expect. I suppose that would be me … ‘cause I’m not wasting any energy on frontin’ nothing and nobody … Ebony is who she has always been (much to many people’s frustration and dismay! Razz), but my *game* is 100% bs-free, (which can't be said of everyone) and I have no intentions of altering that. What I am is what it is.

You know … it’s quite a shame that pretty much everybody else has grown to *hate* you … ‘cause, personally, I like (most of) you (you do have some rough edges, I suppose hug) but you’re a’ight with me … even though we got off to a rocky start. But I do hope you will choose that path that keeps you among the insightful here at AA.org. I often appreciate your perspective as much as anybody else’s that not on my ignore list! Big Grin But if you decide it’s not worth it …. I’ve been there … so I can understand that too.
Originally posted by Fabulous
quote:
I don't have faith in either one of the people volunteering to moderate. please.

I think MBM does just fine on his own. . . choosing a moderator from this group would only cause MORE problems (imo) and cause some of the regular posters (that we do have) to leave.

Vox just recently insulted Koco for no damn reason (IMHO) and DDouble hasn't been posting 'regularly' in a while but sure pops up whenever there's drama. Roll Eyes


fro Thanks Fab. But I can identify when some one is having "issues" cuz they will AVOID substaintial debate to spew their "so'called" intelligence on ridiculous commentary as is shown on this thread. And I agree there SHOULDN'T be a moderator appointed cuz for the most part no one HERE qualifies. Too many AA.org members are saturated with arrogance, self-entitlement, self-righteousness, academia snobbery, immaturity and clique driven antics to be an open minded, balanced, fair moderator. If there are some who are void of these above characteristics...I haven't seen 'em. And is why I post less and less i.e. in other words some folks don't have the ability to moderate themselves out of a paper bag....let alone moderate a group of dynamic intellectuals.. PleaseRoll Eyes This assignment will only give unnecessary POWER and spew personal dictorship[sp]...but! JMHO...is allRoll Eyes

fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by Fabulous
quote:
I don't have faith in either one of the people volunteering to moderate. please.

I think MBM does just fine on his own. . . choosing a moderator from this group would only cause MORE problems (imo) and cause some of the regular posters (that we do have) to leave.

Vox just recently insulted Koco for no damn reason (IMHO) and DDouble hasn't been posting 'regularly' in a while but sure pops up whenever there's drama. Roll Eyes


fro Thanks Fab. But I can identify when some one is having "issues" cuz they will AVOID substaintial debate to spew their "so'called" intelligence on ridiculous commentary as is shown on this thread. And I agree there SHOULDN'T be a moderator appointed cuyz for the most part no one HERE qualifies. Too many AA.org members are saturated with arrogance, self-entitlement, self-righteousness, academia snobbery, immaturity and clique driven antics to be an open minded, balanced, fair moderator. If there are some who are void of these above characteristics...I haven't seen 'em. And is why I post less and less i.e. in other words some folks don't have the ability to moderate themselves out of a paper bag....let alone moderate a group of dynamic intellectuals.. PleaseRoll Eyes This assignment will only give unnecessary POWER and spew personal dictorship[sp]...but! JMHO...is allRoll Eyes

fro


Even though I understand that I'm included in that description... let me say that on some of the white boards.. the snobbery etc.. displayed here is "TAME" in comparison...

intellectuals in this culture are also often prideful..

we've learned how to think and amass knowledge but not how to respect an opinion with which we disagree... and not how to shield ourselves from cliquish behavior..

but then too.. there is often a fine line between those united in their values and opinions and "cliquishness"...

plus.. the board environment has changed a lot over time.. and people who are united on one point will be viciously in disagreement on another.. (I personally post my opinion irrespective of alliances.. yall know me and sometimes even THAT rubs people the wrong way..)


Okay I'm conscious I've lent this subject too much energy..

One more thing though: The internet is really good for information, I believe when this board becomes less about informative dialogue and more social, then break downs will happen...

the boards with themes "philosophy" "science/math" "Afrocentricity" seem to do better in this are in my opinion... "Intellectual discussion" is a vague theme title that welcomes both positive and negative aspects of intellectual discourse..

human emotions being what they are...


mmmk.. that's all..
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by Fabulous
quote:
I don't have faith in either one of the people volunteering to moderate. please.

I think MBM does just fine on his own. . . choosing a moderator from this group would only cause MORE problems (imo) and cause some of the regular posters (that we do have) to leave.

Vox just recently insulted Koco for no damn reason (IMHO) and DDouble hasn't been posting 'regularly' in a while but sure pops up whenever there's drama. Roll Eyes


fro Thanks Fab. But I can identify when some one is having "issues" cuz they will AVOID substaintial debate to spew their "so'called" intelligence on ridiculous commentary as is shown on this thread. And I agree there SHOULDN'T be a moderator appointed cuyz for the most part no one HERE qualifies. Too many AA.org members are saturated with arrogance, self-entitlement, self-righteousness, academia snobbery, immaturity and clique driven antics to be an open minded, balanced, fair moderator. If there are some who are void of these above characteristics...I haven't seen 'em. And is why I post less and less i.e. in other words some folks don't have the ability to moderate themselves out of a paper bag....let alone moderate a group of dynamic intellectuals.. PleaseRoll Eyes This assignment will only give unnecessary POWER and spew personal dictorship[sp]...but! JMHO...is allRoll Eyes

fro


Even though I understand that I'm included in that description... let me say that compared to some of the white boards.. the snobbery etc.. displayed here is "TAME" in comparison...

intellectuals in this culture are also often prideful..

we've learned how to think and amass knowledge but not how to respect an opinion with which we disagree... (I'm sorry, the group think sometimes displayed here is NOTORIOUS for avoiding a point just to make their own.. by talking over and around another opposing and valid viewpoint by ignoring it and restating their position over and over and real dialogue/communication and learning suffers when that happens).. and not how to shield ourselves from cliquish behavior..

but then too.. there is often a fine line between those united in their values and opinions and "cliquishness"...

plus.. the board environment has changed a lot over time.. and people who are united on one point will be viciously in disagreement on another.. (I personally post my opinion irrespective of alliances.. yall know me and sometimes even THAT rubs people the wrong way..)


Okay I'm conscious I've lent this subject too much energy..

One more thing though: The internet is really good for information, I believe when this board becomes less about informative dialogue and more about socializing, then break downs tend to and do happen...

the boards with themes "philosophy" "science/math" "Afrocentricity" seem to do better in this area in my opinion... "Intellectual discussion" is a vague theme title that welcomes both positive and negative aspects of intellectual discourse..

human emotions being what they are...


mmmk.. that's all..
Originally posted by Khalliqa
quote:
Even though I understand that I'm included in that description... let me say that on some of the white boards.. the snobbery etc.. displayed here is "TAME" in comparison...

intellectuals in this culture are also often prideful..

we've learned how to think and amass knowledge but not how to respect an opinion with which we disagree... and not how to shield ourselves from cliquish behavior..

but then too.. there is often a fine line between those united in their values and opinions and "cliquishness"...

plus.. the board environment has changed a lot over time.. and people who are united on one point will be viciously in disagreement on another.. (I personally post my opinion irrespective of alliances.. yall know me and sometimes even THAT rubs people the wrong way..)


Okay I'm conscious I've lent this subject too much energy..

One more thing though: The internet is really good for information, I believe when this board becomes less about informative dialogue and more social, then break downs will happen...

the boards with themes "philosophy" "science/math" "Afrocentricity" seem to do better in this are in my opinion... "Intellectual discussion" is a vague theme title that welcomes both positive and negative aspects of intellectual discourse..

human emotions being what they are...


mmmk.. that's all..



fro What??????!!! All I'm saying is that moderators will have to come from outside this scenerio...cuz FOLKS are crazy up in here. And there's a subliminal power struggle...cuz folks want attention and I don't know why....this is NOT real life....and to be sooo passionate about words on a message board concerns me especially for those who have children. Who's getting their energy? The board or the kids? But I agree that this is an info line....however! Sometimes this fake socialization can go toooo far and for me I can see who really NEEDS help by the way they act here...cuz when you hid behind the persona of avartar what's really going on in your life? But. It is what is and is why a moderator will make this worse than what it is. To me....we don't NEED one cuz folks should able to BEHAVE themselves...we're all grown right?
fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:


fro What??????!!! All I'm saying is that moderators will have to come from outside this scenerio...cuz FOLKS are crazy up in here. And there's a subliminal power struggle...cuz folks want attention and I don't know why....this is NOT real life....and to be sooo passionate about words on a message board concerns me especially for those who have children. Who's getting their energy? The board or the kids? But I agree that this is an info line....however! Sometimes this fake socialization can go toooo far and for me I can see who really NEEDS help by the way they act here...cuz when you hid behind the persona of avartar what's really going on in your life? But. It is what is and is why a moderator will make this worse than what it is. To me....we don't NEED one cuz folks should able to BEHAVE themselves...we're all grown right?
fro


Well I think clearly there is a problem with some members neglecting their children... we can tell that by how the children are doing... :-)

I don't think most members socialize here.. I think most find it a convenient non invasive way to present their thoughts and to clarify their own thoughts.... BUT I do believe when the dialogue deteriorates into socialization it can be a problem...

Yes we're grown.. but this is a non homogenous society, with all kinds of diverse subjective views regarding what it means to be "grown".. like when it is okay and justified to lash out.. go off on someone.. accuse someone.. disagree passionately and vehemently etc... so, in this respect, I must say I agree with you and I'm not sure how a moderator immersed in the same would do any better... but on the other hand.. I've seen how it works with those removed from it.. so I'm sort of torn.. sck
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

...I can identify when some one is having "issues" cuz they will AVOID substaintial debate to spew their "so'called" intelligence on ridiculous commentary as is shown on this thread.
And many others don't understand that engaging in substantive debate means actually addressing the points the other person made. As in, debunking them if they're bad points, or giving them the "yes, but" treatment when they're good but don't change your mind. All the phony, bs characterizing, motive ascribing, and other silly games do not constitute debate. They didn't constitute it on the "Watermelon" thread with you; ditto your boy Romulus on this thread.

This type of stuff is never going to go away, and part of the problem with having a moderator is that you can't really police that kind of stuff. Worse, the other poster gets frustrated because they got accused of being/doing something that they're not, and then the thread goes downhill.

How would you "moderate" that? Does the second person have a right to clarify, or to defend against the mischaracterization?

But the first person didn't really do anything "moderation-worthy" with the game playing. You couldn't BAN somebody for the crime of ignoring what's posted, and attacking what wasn't posted. It's annoying and counterproductive, but it's not bannable.

This board is supposed to be a "community." I'm back and forth on this, but I don't know how you maintain "community" through having moderators. The site would change. maybe it would change for the better, but it would lose something. The different opinions make up a board. But the different -- often WILDLY different -- personalities make up a "community."
Originally posted by Khalliqa
quote:
Well I think clearly there is a problem with some members neglecting their children... we can tell that by how the children are doing... :-)

I don't think most members socialize here.. I think most find it a convenient non invasive way to present their thoughts and to clarify their own thoughts.... BUT I do believe when the dialogue deteriorates into socialization it can be a problem...

Yes we're grown.. but this is a non homogenous society, with all kinds of diverse subjective views regarding what it means to be "grown".. like when it is okay and justified to lash out.. go off on someone.. accuse someone.. disagree passionately and vehemently etc... so, in this respect, I must say I agree with you and I'm not sure how a moderator immersed in the same would do any better... but on the other hand.. I've seen how it works with those removed from it.. so I'm sort of torn..


fro Sista K...you're right! Grown can mean a lot of things to a lot of people....but! Folks who are GROWN know what the word means...and those who don't are yet to learn. Although I do disagree with you...I do think a lot folks come here to social....cuz for whatever reason they are not able to "social" in the real world to make them feel as fulfilled as they seem to be "here." And yes....a lot of folks go off here who wouldn't necessarily go off in the real world...which always lead me to QUESTION what is the REAL motivation in terms of self-expression. So like you...I'm torn. This is the first and only message board I post on consistently....and I've never had the urge to do it prior.[I myself come here to learn and grow...and absorb others spin on current issues/topics] But I when folks say the most cruelest thing to another person just cuz they're having a "bad" day or may be LOSING a debate, there's something seriously wrong/disturb with that "person."" But again, I think if we all behave ourselves....we can continue as they say "police ourselves." I just have a problem with the "trolls." Everyone else? Well...it is what it is. fro
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

There are no rules now HB. When firm rules are in place, it makes your argument moot IMO. Everyone will be obligated to abide by the standards set by the moderating team or leave.


There are clear rules. People choose to ignore them. I'm not sure how having what amounts to an enforcer will help. It would seem that that person will quickly become a serious flashpoint for negative energy - one way or the other. Either they're too aggressive in being police (wo)man or not enough. Then I get flooded with PM's complaining about the moderator.

I'd love for some thought about how to better self-police here - perhaps how the core members can model better behavior etc.

BTW - you'd be surprised how few PM's I get about bad behavior here. When I get them though - I do something about it - again, one way or the other.

Thoughts?

quote:
I'm very curious to see what MBM has to say and whether he'll actually consider the people who have offered to help. munch


I love OC and DD. They've been around forever and have been great members - contributing in multiple ways. I'd have no qualms in supporting either one as a moderator. Perhaps it might make sense to have a man and a woman? 19

I'd like to respectfully ask that there be just a bit of thought here about how we can do this without making someone a "rent a cop" though. 15
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:

...I can identify when some one is having "issues" cuz they will AVOID substaintial debate to spew their "so'called" intelligence on ridiculous commentary as is shown on this thread.


And many others don't understand that engaging in substantive debate means actually addressing the points the other person made. As in, debunking them if they're bad points, or giving them the "yes, but" treatment when they're good but don't change your mind. All the phony, bs characterizing, motive ascribing, and other silly games do not constitute debate.



PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF...
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

There are no rules now HB. When firm rules are in place, it makes your argument moot IMO. Everyone will be obligated to abide by the standards set by the moderating team or leave.


There are clear rules. People choose to ignore them. I'm not sure how having what amounts to an enforcer will help. It would seem that that person will quickly become a serious flashpoint for negative energy - one way or the other. Either they're too aggressive in being police (wo)man or not enough. Then I get flooded with PM's complaining about the moderator.

I'd love for some thought about how to better self-police here - perhaps how the core members can model better behavior etc.

BTW - you'd be surprised how few PM's I get about bad behavior here. When I get them though - I do something about it - again, one way or the other.

Thoughts?

quote:
I'm very curious to see what MBM has to say and whether he'll actually consider the people who have offered to help. munch


I love OC and DD. They've been around forever and have been great members - contributing in multiple ways. I'd have no qualms in supporting either one as a moderator. Perhaps it might make sense to have a man and a woman? 19

I'd like to respectfully ask that there be just a bit of thought here about how we can do this without making someone a "rent a cop" though. 15


Thanks for your response MBM.

Let me clarify. Your rules are full of nuance and subject to multiple interpretations.


For example, some members think that if there posts do not contain profanity then have not engaged in baiting or trolling behavior. A lot of the ad hominems around here come in flowery language.

It's not unrealistic to expect someone to vent here and there, but this board is full of extended attacks and excessive pile-ons. The kicker is that when a person is called on their trolling, they usually try to wiggle out of it.

You've seen baiting, pointless insults and wiggling in this very thread. I can show you five heavily viewed threads where self-policing is not happening right now. Yes, people know what they should do, but it's not happening.

You acknowledge that you don't have the time to monitor all of this. That was why I brought up moderators again. Yes, the moderators will catch flack. It won't matter who you choose.

Further clarification for Koco & Fab who took unnecessary digs at me. My volunteering has nothing to do with power or what's going on in real life. It doesn't have to be me. As long as the people chosen (if moderation becomes an option) enforce the rules consistently, I'd be happy. Honestly, moderating becomes a thankless job over time. I do enjoy the board and have decided to post regularly again after taking a break. I took the break because of the very behaviors this thread focuses on. When was the last time I engaged either of you in a hostile manner, or at all? What made either of you feel the need to comment (incorrectly) on my character? Whatever happened in the past should stay there.

(Please note the manner in which I addressed your comments - minus attacks)

MBM, I want more people to come to AA.org and stay active. At this point, most of the regulars know where the other regulars stand on issues. New blood is vital to your site IMO. When I direct people here, most of them say the same thing: They like the information available, but don't like the battle atmosphere on the board.

Whatever you decide, I'm sticking around.

Thanks for considering my input.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
I'd love for some thought about how to better self-police here - perhaps how the core members can model better behavior etc.

......I'd like to respectfully ask that there be just a bit of thought here about how we can do this without making someone a "rent a cop" though. 15


Personally, I've been trying to take a lot of the "negative" emotion out of my responses to aid me in policing myself. I know I've had my not so positive times here and I realize that it can be CounterProductive. We Hue-Mans are varied and emotional creatures...but we each bring a world of "oomph" to the topics at hand.

So, I've been trying to focus on the topic at hand, not so much the crap that can be behind it...although that gets to be a bit much at times.

While I also agree that people should police ThemSelves, it has been my experience that they rarely will do this...so in that spirit, I don't mind seeing moderators here. The couple of groups that I own are moderated, although each moderator doesn't have to do much given that the Ladies and GentleMen generally keep it ReSpectful (it was one of the requirements for getting in, in the first place).

"Wisdom Is A Woman Who's Been There!"
Originally posted by Vox
quote:

And many others don't understand that engaging in substantive debate means actually addressing the points the other person made. As in, debunking them if they're bad points, or giving them the "yes, but" treatment when they're good but don't change your mind. All the phony, bs characterizing, motive ascribing, and other silly games do not constitute debate. They didn't constitute it on the "Watermelon" thread with you; ditto your boy Romulus on this thread.



fro17 Are YOU talking about? Games? I don't play games. You got it twisted. You're the only who's playing MIND games. You think I don't see through your adolescent bullshit? You're crazy. You're the ONE trying to distort, avoid and manipulate the issue. Not me. You think you can pull the wool over my head? In your dreams. You definitely got your peoples mixed up. And when have I ever played a game....with you in particular? I'm not one of your playmates who gets lost in the aura of you. It will NEVER happen son. Your pathetic antics are clear especially in our previous discussion where you obviously had nothing else "intellectual" to bring to the table and like the immature bruised child YOU ARE...you tried desperately to minimize and insult me by calling my commentary buffoonish. If anything is buffoonish...it's that person looking in your mirror.

YOU. can NEVER bully me with your word pranks. The last thang in the WORLD I'm ever gonna be...is…… afraid of a BLACK man! Kneegrow please...I'm not Rhianna-not young…not stupid. And...totally unimpressed with YOU! So get over yourself...and get some help! Cuz clearly you're delusional. CUZ In my worse days, you can never lessen WHO I AM in your BEST days. Nada. And that watermelon thread? Still bothering you....HUH? Not bothering me. It's been long gone. Why can't you just....let it go. I suggest you go find out what's really going with you cuz it seems you are hallucinating AND confused into thinking I give a sweet fock what you think of me or my commentary...just so you know..your vote [in my life] NEVER counted! Never.

And......all I was doing in this thread was make a rhetorical statement regarding my position on appointing a moderator. Nothing more! And here you coming at me like I'm suppose to be. What? Scarred? Hump! There's nothing about YOU I fear. And under no circumstances am I gonna continue going back and forth with this ridiculous pissing match you got going. Somehow it appears to make you feel.....worthy? Powerful? Or SELF righteous? Man who sho' got some serious issues....cuz it's totally obvious. But....whateva rocks your boatRoll Eyes

Besides, "empty" words disguised as intellectual thought are usually actionless, baseless, pointless and for the most part....counterproductive...as in this case....but! JMHO is allfro
Originally posted by DDouble
quote:
Further clarification for Koco & Fab who took unnecessary digs at me.
My volunteering has nothing to do with power or what's going on in real life. It doesn't have to be me. As long as the people chosen (if moderation becomes an option) enforce the rules consistently, I'd be happy. Honestly, moderating becomes a thankless job over time. I do enjoy the board and have decided to post regularly again after taking a break. I took the break because of the very behaviors this thread focuses on. When was the last time I engaged either of you in a hostile manner, or at all? What made either of you feel the need to comment (incorrectly) on my character? Whatever happened in the past should stay there.



fro

DD:

Get your facts straight, my brotha. I wasn't referring to YOU per se [never said your name..that would be an indication...right?Roll Eyes]. I was talking in general terms in regards to NOT needing a moderator. It is such a thing you know, being "general" that is. And if I wanted to include you in this generalization, believe me I wouldn't have a problem doing so...but! I didn't. And like everyone else here giving their spin as to why and why not....I was conveying mineRoll Eyes

BTW: You have NEVER seen me take "digs" on folks OR attack folks here on this board...it has NEVER been my style or desire. However I do defend myself when folks approach me in an unnecessary hostile/disrespectful manner. And always will.
fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

That entire post is/was merely a transparent attempt at baiting me back into your delusion, even after I've declared that I'm done with that topic.


Delusion? What damn delusion? Either you made the statements I quoted you as saying or you didn't. Your debilitated, unsubstantial, irresolute attempts to deflect and avoid answering simple, elementary, basic, straight forward questions is the same as admitting guilt.

If you're so innocent of the uninformed statements I'm accusing you of having made why are you working so hard at avoiding, deflecting, deviating, and distracting?

You made the empty, fraudulent charge that I was being "inherently dishonest" yet you cannot answer simple, straight forward questions. Either you made the statements I quoted you as haveing said or you didn't.

How Can I be inherently dishonest when:

A. I have provided multiple links to the same threads I referred to.

B. I presented statements that I point blank quoted to you as having said that you could easily debunk with a simple "no" or "not true" if they are lies.


Who's being "inherently dishonest" now?

At least I can be a man and admit--time and time again--that I involved myself in making harsh statements and using profanity but you don't even have the courage--not even a shred--to either deny or admit to your own statements. After all, why should I be embarrassed, ashamed of the comments I've made on a damn discussion board? I'm a grown ass man interacting in multiple, positive, healthy face-to-face relationships on a daily basis--living in a tangible, living, breathing, growing, evolving place some people like to call Earth. You're confined to an electronic stasis--an artificial environment.

You apply terrestrial, sociological factors to a vacuous plane of existence. You care about how these people, these members percieve you no matter how fraudulent, phony, and fictitious you are, which is why you work so hard to hide your hypocritical, sanctimonious, charlatan ways under a shroud of counterfeit integrity.

You posture and pose with childish, prankish, juvenile delinquent comments like: Romulus got his a$$ beat on the regular because his attention seeking, "all about me" a$$ wouldn't just let someone walk away and Yes that was personal AND inflammatory ... run tell that as if you were on some electronic playground trying to bluff your way out of being caught in a lie.

You work too hard at deflecting, avoiding, and deviating from the facts for someone that is supposed to be so innocent. With that being said, I will take your unwillingness to be a man and admit to your dirt as a clear sign of guilt and leave it at that.



Have a nice day and drive ahead slowly. hat
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
So y'all just gonna IGNORE Rodney, huh?? Razz


No one is ignoring Rodney. The thing is, as I've said before, the current situation that's going down on AfricanAmerica.org is a sociological recession. As with the real economic recession that's going on the sociological recession AA.org is experiencing, AA.org isn't just going to bounce back from it's downturn overnight. It's going to take time for the proper groundwork to be applied so that the environment can improve over time.

People that call themselves still being angry over getting their feelings hurt because they stuck their noses into conversations where they shouldn't have stuck them in the first place and got as much, if not more, as they gave are still venting--pretending like they have a thick layer of skin and can take it but will cry and complain about being 'offended' at the drop of a hat the second an opporunity presents itself.

When they learn they can't expect people they've habitually and compulsively attacked to lay down and play dead for their benefit as well as realize that some people are simply not going to always express opinions they agree with the interactions will not only improve but the topics of discussion will broaden as the lurkers that are waiting for the smoke to clear will be more inclined to post. One of the best aspects about BlackTokyo before the discussion board closed down was if someone posted an uninteresting topic it was simply ignored. The members were rarely attacked each other, if at all, for having varying opinions on different topics. That isn't to say that there were no flamewars. They happened from time to time but for the most part the members simply ignored beefs between members. They didn't feel the need to add more fuel to the fire by involving themselves in a matter that was none of their business or gang attacking people because they have an unpopular opinion.


First, you are singing to the choir. I have been on the receiving end of that behavior for years now ... so, the best I can do for you is grab a violin and give you some accompaniment.

quote:
Yeah, yeah, I know. "This ain't BlackTokyo" but if you truly want the atmosphere to improve the aforementioned is an option to consider.


Secondly, I understand, I concur, and I empathize with what you have written above. As far as I'm concerned, you have stated your position most effectively ... and now I'm going to give you the best advice I have at this point:

Play the cards you have been dealt. ‘Cause you’re not going to get any more.

AA.org is what it is, RB. And it is going to remain that way. I learned that lesson the hard way. But learn it I did.

We used to have a poster here who made your little tirades (even the vulgar ones) seem like a Mother Goose Nursery Rhyme. And when I had to go deep into the bowels of hell to meet my attacker on his level and defend myself from what turned out to be an intolerable amount of the worst kind of disrespect, I was the one told that I needed to curb my behavior and be the bigger man. sck

That was when I realized that the only thing that was going to change around here was ME.

Although it was pretty much unanimously agreed that the barrage of various bitches, cunts and hos that I had to endure being called was more than a little over the top, it was not going to be put to a stop ... by anybody else but me. I had to decide whether or not the benefits of the AA.org community (and, as you know, there are many) was worth having my honor and my dignity so viciously attacked. I chose that it wasn't ... and decided instead that it was time to leave the board.

That poster eventually took it upon himself to leave the community as well .. and if he hadn't, I wouldn't be here talking to you today, because I wouldn’t have come back and subjected myself to such verbal abuse if he were still here. I had to show respect for myself if I was going to expect that any was coming my way.

You get what you get here, my friend. The good, the bad, the bitter, and the sweet of it … all rolled up into one dynamically diverse package. This is a great site where all of us have an opportunity to interact with what I consider to be a phenomenal collection of individuals. We all have something to share and to gain by being here. And I have always had a belief that the potential for something ‘extraordinary’ to come out of this unusual group of characters is present and strong .. even though no such reality has manifested itself as of yet.

But you will have to decide whether or not your benefits outweigh your negatives – and the site most definitely has it’s share of those as well. You can *wish* that the board was different, or the people were different, or that the answer to Rodney's question is ever going to be a "yes" all you want to ... but the plain and simple reality is that all it’s ever going to be is just that … an unfruitful, unrealized wish. And you either accept that fact, and remain to enjoy the plus-side factors that your membership entitles you to … or you don’t and go find yourself another cyberspace nest to call home. But I can tell you it gets a lot easier once you swallow that (rather bitter) pill and understand that what you see is what you get.

I see you are coming up on your 2-year anniversary ... so I’m trying to give you the benefit of realizing that choice sooner than I was able to. But those are your only two choices ... believe me on that. “CHANGE you can believe in” may be engulfing the rest of the world … but DO NOT get your expectations up that it will come to AA.org any time soon.

Over the years, some of the more argumentative people, on their own, either mature, mellow out, or just get tired of fighting the same fight. And some don't. Others are who they are and at least you learn from them what to expect. I suppose that would be me … ‘cause I’m not wasting any energy on frontin’ nothing and nobody … Ebony is who she has always been (much to many people’s frustration and dismay! Razz), but my *game* is 100% bs-free, (which can't be said of everyone) and I have no intentions of altering that. What I am is what it is.

You know … it’s quite a shame that pretty much everybody else has grown to *hate* you … ‘cause, personally, I like (most of) you (you do have some rough edges, I suppose hug) but you’re a’ight with me … even though we got off to a rocky start. But I do hope you will choose that path that keeps you among the insightful here at AA.org. I often appreciate your perspective as much as anybody else’s that not on my ignore list! Big Grin But if you decide it’s not worth it …. I’ve been there … so I can understand that too.


It's okay, Ebony. Really. It's no big deal. I can dish it out just as well as I can take it or not even take it at all and let a thread die. I'm not concerned with how people act. I'm not anybody's mamma or daddy and wouldn't want to be. I'm just a stickler for people being truthful about their actions. As of late, members who have been in denial or straight up dishonest about their behavior have all gotten their cards pulled--some more than once whether by my hand or by someone else's:

honestbrother

khaliqua

oshun auset

rowe

vox

ricardomath


and now...

kweli4real

You see, it doesn't matter whether you're in an artificial, electronic plane or terrestrial Earth. You're going to get caught for doing your dirt and have your card pulled for it sooner or later.



P.S.

My apologies if I left anyone out.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
about their actions. As of late, members who have been in denial or straight up dishonest about their behavior have all gotten their cards pulled--some more than once whether by my hand or by someone else's:

honestbrother




As long as (some) people are bandying my name about ... let me make it clear that:

1. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

2. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

3. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I know.

I'll leave it at that. Thank you. hat
quote:
You work too hard at deflecting, avoiding, and deviating from the facts for someone that is supposed to be so innocent. With that being said, I will take your unwillingness to be a man and admit to your dirt as a clear sign of guilt and leave it at that.


Ah Huh ... Fo Real? Please pass the greens. And ask lil Ray Ray to bring me my ear plugs. Thank you child.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
about their actions. As of late, members who have been in denial or straight up dishonest about their behavior have all gotten their cards pulled--some more than once whether by my hand or by someone else's:

honestbrother




As long as (some) people are bandying my name about ... let me make it clear that:

1. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

2. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

3. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I know.

I'll leave it at that. Thank you. hat


Rule # 423 Section 7: Nobody gives a damn what you classify as having your card pulled.


You're suffering from a clear case of selective memory.


You got your card pulled by me, Huey, Whirling Moat and even Negrospiritual in the Art of War on Women thread and the "Women Unmarried Due to Bitterness thread.



You've been in DENIAL about being the poster child for women's lib and simultaneously being a HYPOCRITE for griping and complaining about your frustrations with black women yet you want to attack other brothers for expressing similar frustrations you've expressed in the past on THIS discussion board.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
about their actions. As of late, members who have been in denial or straight up dishonest about their behavior have all gotten their cards pulled--some more than once whether by my hand or by someone else's:

honestbrother




As long as (some) people are bandying my name about ... let me make it clear that:

1. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

2. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

3. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I know.

I'll leave it at that. Thank you. hat


Rule # 423 Section 7: Nobody gives a damn what you classify as having your card pulled.


You're suffering from a clear case of selective memory.


You got your card pulled by me, Huey, Whirling Moat and even Negrospiritual in the Art of War on Women thread and the "Women Unmarried Due to Bitterness thread.


You've been in DENIAL about being the poster child for women's lib and simultaneously being a HYPOCRITE for griping and complaining about your frustrations with black women yet you want to attack other brothers for expressing similar frustrations you've expressed in the past on THIS discussion board.



1. HonestBother has forgotten absolutely nothing.

2. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

3. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

4. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I KNOW.
quote:
1. HonestBother has forgotten absolutely nothing.

2. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

3. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

4. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I KNOW.


lolWhile I realize that insanity is contagious, when one begins referring to themselves in the third person, it is a clear indicator that that someone is either headed, or all the way, around the bend.

Come back HB ... Come back.
lol
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
1. HonestBother has forgotten absolutely nothing.

2. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

3. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

4. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I KNOW.


lolWhile I realize that insanity is contagious, when one begins referring to themselves in the third person, it is a clear indicator that that someone is either headed, or all the way, around the bend.

Come back HB ... Come back.
lol



Ohhhhh ... I'm completely sane.

It's just a message board ... right?

But (for future reference to any interested parties) I'm sticking with my previous post.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
about their actions. As of late, members who have been in denial or straight up dishonest about their behavior have all gotten their cards pulled--some more than once whether by my hand or by someone else's:

honestbrother




As long as (some) people are bandying my name about ... let me make it clear that:

1. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

2. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

3. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I know.

I'll leave it at that. Thank you. hat


Rule # 423 Section 7: Nobody gives a damn what you classify as having your card pulled on your hypocritical contradicitons.


You're suffering from a clear case of selective memory.


You got your card pulled by me, Huey, Whirling Moat and even Negrospiritual in the Art of War on Women thread and the "Women Unmarried Due to Bitterness thread.


You've been in DENIAL about being the poster child for women's lib and simultaneously being a HYPOCRITE for griping and complaining about your frustrations with black women yet you want to attack other brothers for expressing similar frustrations you've expressed in the past on THIS discussion board.



1. HonestBother has forgotten absolutely nothing.

2. HonestBrother has been in denial or dishonest about nothing.

3. No one has pulled any card on HonestBrother (that I care about).

4. HonestBrother really doesn't care what you or anyone else "thinks" about HonestBrother if it is at odds with what I KNOW.




You seem to think what you say has any relevence in this matter. Your opinion is irrelevant.

No one is going to go around in circles with your childishness. You don't have to accept the fact that that you've been called on your hypocrisy and denial--you simply have to live with the fact.


A. You have no CHOICE in the acceptance or denial of your card being pulled.


B. No one CARES what you think as to whether your card has been pulled or not. The charges have been made, the evidence of your denial and hypocrisy have been reviewed and proven to be FACTUAL, and you are hereby GUILTY as charged.


C. You have no CHOICE in deeming who, how, why or on what grounds your card has been pulled. The bottom line is YOUR CARD WAS PULLED. END-OF-STORY.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
You work too hard at deflecting, avoiding, and deviating from the facts for someone that is supposed to be so innocent. With that being said, I will take your unwillingness to be a man and admit to your dirt as a clear sign of guilt and leave it at that.


Ah Huh ... Fo Real? Please pass the greens. And ask lil Ray Ray to bring me my ear plugs. Thank you child.



In your cowardice and lack of integrity you seem to think because you deflected and avoided answering to your ignorance equates with being innocent. That's a kindergarten child mentality. Even though the whole class saw you take Mrs. Crabtree's apple from her desk you think avoiding answering to your criminal actions while drumming up lies about what little Johnny and little Tommy did at recess will somehow take the heat off of you.

It doesn't matter how other people feel or what they think--it doesn't matter how you avoid, deflect, and deviate from the truth. Your uninformed, debunked statements are posted here in this thread as well as links being provided proving your actions. End-of-story.
Uhm Cowardice?!? whoa ... that's a pretty word. Pass the greens, please.

quote:
Damn! 3075 views in just a few days! That's a new record even for me!


laugh Lesson to Observers: If you ever want to out an a$$, all you have to do is keep them talking. laugh

Ain't that right Sir Attention-Seeker?

This sh!t is too damned easy, sir!
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

Let me clarify. Your rules are full of nuance and subject to multiple interpretations.


How would having a moderator clarify that? More important, how would a moderator be more effective than getting the core members to commit to modeling better behavior?
quote:
Further clarification for Koco & Fab who took unnecessary digs at me.


I didn't take a 'dig' at you, I stated exactly what I believe to be true. It's MY observation that 'here lately' you only seem to pop up whenever there's drama.

Any other comment you perceive as being directed toward you (specially) is all in your MIND or. . .

a serious case of 'the hit dog howls'.
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Further clarification for Koco & Fab who took unnecessary digs at me.


I didn't take a 'dig' at you, I stated exactly what I believe to be true. It's MY observation that 'here lately' you only seem to pop up whenever there's drama.

Any other comment you perceive as being directed toward you (specially) is all in your MIND or. . .

a serious case of 'the hit dog howls'.


Oh well. I tried. hat
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

Let me clarify. Your rules are full of nuance and subject to multiple interpretations.


How would having a moderator clarify that? More important, how would a moderator be more effective than getting the core members to commit to modeling better behavior?


The rules and corrective actions need to be more specific (see my earlier posts for my detailed suggestions). Moderators would enforce the rules. Right now, there is no consequence for disruptive behavior. As a result, there is no incentive to ignore or turn the other cheek when you are the target of a disruptive member.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

Right now, there is no consequence for disruptive behavior. As a result, there is no incentive to ignore or turn the other cheek when you are the target of a disruptive member.


How about just being a mature, secure, and grounded adult who wants to be a part of a healthy online community? 15

With respect to consequences - this whole thread demonstrates what community consequences can be about. Communities develop sets of behaviors and mores where those who operate outside of them receive consequences. Looking to me or to a moderator, essentially, takes everyone off the hook for their own behavior. Instead of being thoughtful about their own interactions, they can do whatever until they get "spanked".

In the scheme of things, this is a tiny community. We don't really have that many active regular members and I really would prefer that we identify things that we can do to police ourselves. As I've said, a moderator from within the community would be fraught with potential political issues and might create even more problems that s/he solves. If we needed one it would probably make more sense for me to hire someone from outside AA.org to step in and help administer things.

IDEA: What if we move more toward a 'social networking model' where individuals use their real names? Would that nudge people toward more responsible behavior if there was less of a shield of anonymity?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

With respect to consequences - this whole thread demonstrates what community consequences can be about. Communities develop sets of behaviors and mores where those who operate outside of them receive consequences.
Not that I support a moderator (i'm undecided), but this statement is way untrue. Once someone shows that they'll go as far out of control as imaginable in an argument, the other person who doesn't like to see things reach that point will back off. The other one more often than not takes that to mean that they've "won." Once the behavior gets below a certain point, or their opponent realizes, "WTF am I doing?", there are no consequences.

quote:

IDEA: What if we move more toward a 'social networking model' where individuals use their real names? Would that nudge people toward more responsible behavior if there was less of a shield of anonymity?
I'm sure that many people here would be too afraid of certain other members knowing too much about them.
quote:
Once someone shows that they'll go as far out of control as imaginable in an argument, the other person who doesn't like to see things reach that point will back off. The other one more often than not takes that to mean that they've "won." Once the behavior gets below a certain point, or their opponent realizes, "WTF am I doing?", there are no consequences.


Exactly Vox.

So outside of removing nuggyt's b***h comment, you thought the dialogue in this thread was OK MBM?

http://africanamerica.org/eve/.../79160213/m/94110849

This discussion got derailed for about 4 pages. The way it was derailed is a normal occurence. And there were no consequnces for it.

I don't know if a social networking style would help.
quote:
Once someone shows that they'll go as far out of control as imaginable in an argument, the other person who doesn't like to see things reach that point will back off. The other one more often than not takes that to mean that they've "won."


This thread is a prime example of that. I've half-heartedly been trying to disengage Romulus for about 4 pages now. And does he see that for what it's worth ... No. He sees it as some kind of victory, even to the point of calling me a coward, though I haven't conceded the point, I just stopped engaging.

Bottomline, there really is nothing that can be done to make folks behave AND retain the original flavor of this site.

We can have a moderator and see the site change ... maybe die, because it'll become too serious and no "fun"; or we can leave it as it is a just deal with the idiots [myself included, though I don't think myself disruptive].

So given that choice ... the decision will be ultimately be based in your ambition, MBM.

Do you want this site to be a Black "Daily Kos", or "Free Republic" [which can be a social and/or political force for change]? Or, do you want this site to be more of a social site?

Frankly, I would remain a member either way and once the direction is set, I'd adapt and conform.