The Riot Starter Returns: Black women trying 'Something New' in Italy [Sponsored by BlackWeekly.com

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Ad hominem attacks are a sign that you lack an argument. Or maybe that you have a bad conscience and really can't defend your choices.

Are you going to contribute to the discussion?

Or whine?


PS: Your advanced "social skills" really shine through in your posts!

Why thank you. I'll be sure to inform my Dominican woman about my advanced social skills over dinner tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Ad hominem attacks are a sign that you lack an argument. Or maybe that you have a bad conscience and really can't defend your choices.

Are you going to contribute to the discussion?

Or whine?


PS: Your advanced "social skills" really shine through in your posts!

Why thank you. I'll be sure to inform my Dominican woman about my advanced social skills over dinner tonight.

I'm done for now. I finished a run half an hour ago. I need to shower and prepare for my date.

Enjoy dinner.

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:



I'm one of those fed up black men.

But I've come to see that the black woman is not my enemy.

She too has good reasons to be fed up.

Maybe healing can begin there? Mutual acknowledgement?

Wow, HB you get a big kiss for this.....!!

quote:

Originally posted by qty226:

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:



I'm one of those fed up black men.

But I've come to see that the black woman is not my enemy.

She too has good reasons to be fed up.

Maybe healing can begin there? Mutual acknowledgement?

Wow, HB you get a big kiss for this.....!!

Bullshit. You're the biggest butt-licking bullshitter on this entire discussion board, honestbrother. First of all, I'm not a fed up black man. I love black women to death. But I value my worth to the effect that I won't put up with false accusations made by women of any race and nationality including my own. I'm an equal opportunity brother - end of story. That's fundamentalist, naive, inexperienced, hypothetical talk you're driveling all over this discussion board.

Any black man, particularly, a black man who is a regular participating member of AA.org understands that women have had their frustrations and difficulties with the opposite sex. We also understand that women aren't the enemy. You're childish and simple-minded as well as a brown-nosing, sniveling baby if you think any of us view black women as the enemy.

But the point is, should an innocent brother put up with being judged, ridiculed, harrassed, accused, and criticized - prosecuted for interpersonal crimes he did not commit? Hell no! If anyone chooses to make an entire gender the enemy it's black women.

Only a woman would tell good brothers she's not attracted to them because of whatever fickle, self-absorbed, fictitious reason, then turn around and have a string of dead end relationships with a bunch of womanizing, abusive, neglectful, undesirable, thugged out negroes yet put all black men in the same category when their failed relationships have taken their toll.

Even females like qty226 know you're just a naive little boy. They just love to gas up the heads of naive little dudes like you - watch you wag your tale and turn around in little circles like a Yorkshire Terrier until they get tired of you and find another sucker, then when you realize you've been made a fool of you react angrily, then you've fallen for the you're-just-like-the-rest-of-them trap.

Black women may have a good reason to be fed up but they sure as hell don't have a good reason to prosecute all black men because they make poor choices in the men they choose to give their heart to. You can talk to any one of these women and I'll bet you 9 out of 10 will tell you the same kind of long drawn out story about how they were mistreated for 5 to 8 years by one dude. But when they're single and in search of a new guy they seem to avoid all of the decent guys and go for the same type of thugged out, irresponsible, abusive negroes.

Another point that you fail to understand is this: Many women don't want mutual acknowledgement. Many of them love to wallow in their own misery. They love to have a reason and an excuse to be just as afraid of commitment as they acuse men of being.

Just because a woman contributes a significant amount of time to a failing relationship doesn't mean she's ready to settle down. In fact, it means quite the opposite. Women that purposefully commit themselves to undesirable, incapable men are just as bad if not worse than brothers that are unfairly labeled as being afraid of commitment. Many of these women have self-absorbed personality characteristics that is a combination of being narcissistic and self sabbotaging. They're so into their looks, materialism, and independence they'll involve themselves with a dude they know is no good so when the relationship fails they can have an excuse to continue living their narcissistic, self-absorbed lives:

"I tried to love Jonathan and make a happy home but he beat me up/stole my car and took his boys for a ride/ got me pregnant but said it wasn't his. blah, blah, blah....."

"I thought helping Tim catch up his car note, putting rims on his car, and buying him a whole new wardrobe would bring us closer together....."

"J'Quan was so smart. All he needed was a job. Nobody would hire him because he wouldn't cut his dreads. Can you blame him for wanting to sell drugs to make ends meet? College ain't for everybody. It's the white man's fault...."

Pick your story - I've heard them all from these sisters that follow that path of good intentions everyday. However, miraculously, no matter which story is used they all end up the same damn way:

"I just couldn't take it anymore. I got tired of being treated that way. I changed the locks on my door and told J'Quan/Marcus/Rakeem to get his shit. It's all HIS fault. I did the best I could and he messed up everything. I have to start my life all over. I'll never trust another man again."

Their stories are full of red flags that lead up to the failure of their relationship - they don't know how they got into that mess - they know how to be at odds with each other when they fight each other and stab each other in the back over a no good negro but somehow they now how to band together and use Mary J. Blidge as their poster child while they mentally castrate and emasculate all black men.

quote:

Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:


Bullshit. You're the biggest butt-licking bullshitter on this entire discussion board, honestbrother.

There go those personal (ad hominem) attacks again.

Romulus, you don't know me. You really don't know me. And if you think you know me based on a handful of posts on a discussion board then perhaps you're the one who is simple minded.

Firstly, you're relatively new to the board ... I have indeed had (major) disagreements with female posters on the board. Including many of the ones that you've claim I've "brown-nosed".

But I've decided that it is in the best interest of all to peacefully co-exist. Going out of your way to antagonize and insult people serves no good purpose.

Especially not on a discussion board.

I'd like to think I've grown in this way.

Secondly, for some reason, you choose to ignore places where I've repeatedly said that I agree with many of your observations. It's just that sometimes I don't agree with the manner in which you deliver them.

Again, I'm also making a distinction between some of the women I've dated in the "real world" and women I talk to on the board.

Trying to be friendly and talk to people (women specifically) productively is not "brown nosing". It's getting the most out of the situation (a discussion board) from a human point of view.

Where are those advanced social skills which you bragged about?

It seems as though YOU are the one prosecuting ALL black women based on the behavior of a few. You take your experiences (which I do recognize from my own dating life - we actually have a lot in common here) and proceed to generalize. You speak of black women generally as if they all collectively exhibit the same behaviors. Isn't that what you're saying they do to us? ...

As in

quote:

You can talk to any one of these women and I'll bet you 9 out of 10 will tell you the same kind of long drawn out story about how they were mistreated for 5 to 8 years by one dude.

Do you personally know Qty (for example)? I've known her on the board for awhile. And I can say that I've seen her grow in the time that I've known her. She has evolved and matured. And what was once an antagonistic relationship between us has become "friendly". Both of us have grown and developed in our view of the opposite sex (within an African American context).

As far as the "game" goes, again I will say this:

There was a time in my life when I did date widely outside of my race. But in my present life, I've chosen to place certain restrictions on who I date. One of those restrictions is race. Does that make things more complicated and less convenient for me? Yep. But that's the way it is. I occasionally complain. But I live with it.

I don't claim any special expertise. At least not on black women. But, at least within the context of this board, I'm willing to bet that I have more productive dialogue with women (I'm including PMs by the way). And I've found that mutual acknowledgement does indeed help, my friend.

In this regard, it sounds like you are just as much a snot nose kid in the game as I am. You've recognized certain things you don't want to deal with (and I really don't blame you by the way). But the only solution you seem to have found is not to date American black women. At least I stayed in that game.

Sex Tourism is big business, having been abroad myself and witnessed it first hand it is not surprising that Black women in America would be enticed to join in. There is this thing that seems to happen to men and women, married or single, when they travel outside their state and definitely their country; they take on the whole Vegas attitude of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, just replace Vegas with said city, state or town. I was a groomsman in my sister wedding this weekend, my sister is a Professional, has an EDD in Education and most of her friends whom she went to school with are professionals as well, very successful. Most of them are married some of them are not. What was quite interesting to me is they seen their trip out of town to attend my sisters wedding as an opportunity to have some fun and do things they would not normally do. These sisters had a good time and just from talking to them it became obvious what some of their intentions were while in town. Mind you, I do not think a man back in their home town would have the chance of having sex with them on the first night, but it obviously clear that the Vegas attitude was in affect in Houston.

I say that to say this, these sista's going to Italy on these sex tours come back home from Italy with the same empty feeling they left the U.S. with and thus they may resort to taking these sex tours once a year and if they can afford it two or three times a year. These women are not going over there to meet a man they hope to be their husband because it becomes painfully obvious when they arrive their that these men, have come from different parts of Italy and possibly Europe to basically have sex with them. Can you imagine the conversations of the men, before the women arrive and after they leave? Do these women know that by now these parties are filled with the same men each time? It is the same for men traveling to Brazil or other hot spots, they know whatever club they arrive at, the women in that club will be in that club next week and every other day after they leave doing the same thing with men from all over the world. Such is true of the men that attend these parties with these women. The sad thing is, if these women wanted to get laid, they can do it for a lot cheaper here in the U.S. and when the night is over get up and go home with the same empty feeling they have returning from Europe except without the jet lag.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I wonder why black women dont take tours of Africa, or Brazil, or other areas, where African Men are. Seems to me a lot of the so called upscale black women , really want to be white women ,and actually prefers the Eurocentric lifestyle over their own culture. Maybe if some of these successful women looked in the mirror and found the source of their self hatred they will have a better understanding of the reality they find themselves in.

~I don't believe that black people, in general, are big travelers abroad in the first place compared with others. I've worked with passports, so my comment is based on that. However, those that do travel abroud definitely DO indeed go to places where black (men) people are? Why do you think that they don't?

As far as this tour of Italy is concerned, it's no wonder at all that it was the destination of choice for the pupose of exposing black women to "other options". I'm sure you've heard, I know I have NUMEROUS times in my life, how Italian men are attracted to black women. They just are. Who knows what got into them that hasn't gotten into the rest of the world's white male population(?...that they will admit to, that is). Let's just call it a mystery. But, I saw this firsthand when I toured Italy myself years ago. If a woman pretty much go through her life, up to that point, without nary a glance from white males, BELIEVE ME when I tell you that the sudden, unexpected, and constant attention and admiration will not go unnoticed and she will never forget it.

I saw nothing whatsoever lascivious in nature within the "Darlene in the City" article outlining the excursion. On the contrary, it reads of them behaving like Ladies.....not "heffas" as someone here mentioned. All over the world, white and light is preferred by the shallow and unthinking amongst us. That is no secret. Even in the so-called "black places". Or ....should I say, especially in the "black places". THAT is the reality that they find themselves in when they look in the mirror and there is no getting away from one's skin until death, and it's not a SELF hate, it's a hate TOWARDS them. Black MEN experience it, too, by the way, so act like you know.

So, why begrudge them any favorable attention that comes their way, especially when it comes from the "least likely" or "least expected" givers of it? Yes, they can get favorable attention at home from a brotha. But, not the exhilarating SHOCK of such exhuberant mass admiration that comes from a foreign, exotic male. That's different. Don't hate. Congratuate, instead.

Now, having said all that, the only "negative" concern that I have with the whole tour experience is that of the REAL and PRESENT danger that is the SEX TRADE. There is no such thing as TOO CAREFUL where women and children are concerned, especially while traveling. The one lady on the tour who was MIA for a litte while --- that scared me. I'm glad it turned out to be nothing wrong. If they include 2,000% SECURITY for the tour members, then I see nothing wrong with it. More POWER to them.

quote:

Originally posted by OhBlackButterfly:

Black MEN experience it, too, by the way, so act like you know.



So, why begrudge them any favorable attention that comes their way, especially when it comes from the "least likely" or "least expected" givers of it? Yes, they can get favorable attention at home from a brotha. But, not the exhilarating SHOCK of such exhuberant mass admiration that comes from a foreign, exotic male. That's different. Don't hate. Congratuate, instead.

This is true. For some reason, Italians (men and women) find black people attractive. For a good little while, I dated Italian women (to the point of learning to speak Italian).

Positive attention can be a good thing. It's definitely a welcome contrast to the attention we normally get.

But I think it's useful to also realize that much of their attraction is to the "exotic" - not to you. Especially if you don't live for an extended time among them.

PS: It's from Italian male friends that I really learned to see (to really see) the beauty in black women ...

I think this is interesting!

shion | 08.10.2007
Runway Racism Clouds Paris Fashion Shows
A black woman in a blonde wig
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Blond is in demand, but black is not

Paris has once again become the world capital of fashion. The pret-a-porter shows with the 2008 spring and summer fashions have already begun. It is pricey, ready-to-wear clothing -- but only for whites.

Tiguida is a strikingly beautiful young woman with almond-shaped eyes, black hair and heart-shaped lips. At 1.79 meters (5 feet 11 inches), 56 kilograms (124 pounds) and measurements of 83-63-91 centimeters (33-25-36 inches), she has the figure of the perfect model.

The French, however, appear not to think so.

As the daughter of parents from Mali and Niger, she's not part of the pret-a-porter fashion shows currently underway in Paris. In fact, she rarely works as a model for fashion shows. No matter that the face is flawless and the size is right: A black model has a particularly tough time in the Paris fashion world.

"At the Paris fashion shows, there aren't even two black models, but just one: A black model or a model of mixed races. Not two, just a single one," the 19-year old said. "Paris is the world capital of fashion -- for whites."

An awful scandal

Naomi CampbellBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: An exception: Naomi Campbell

Tiguida does commercials for lotions, make-up and hairstyles -- for blacks. Even women's magazines rarely employ blacks. She has gone to auditions for Marie Claire but has never been hired -- though a biracial model was, Tiguida said.

"In London and Italy, black models get work," she said. "But not in France. That's racism."

It was in 1964 that fashion designer Paco Rabanne sent a black model walking down a runway for the first time. She wore a wedding dress made of white plastic.

"It was an awful scandal," Rabanne said. "After the show, American fashion journalists came backstage and almost spit in my face. They said haute couture is reserved for white women and not those girls over there."

Wanted: Blonde, tall and thin

A blonde model posingBildunterschrift: Blonde and white is preferred

During fashion shows, the phones practically ring off the hook at well-known fashion agency Elite, when designers choose models for their collections.

Elite discovered black top model Naomi Campbell. Today, however, the agency only has two models of color, a Jamaican from New York and a biracial Frenchwoman.

Sabine Killinger, vice president of Elite Paris, said there simply isn't enough work for more black models. She added that this wasn't the fault of model agencies, who are just suppliers for the fashion houses, magazines, advertising clients and catalogues.

Lacking global appeal?

Advertising campaigns are made for the world market, and only models who appeal to the whole world are considered, she said.

"A black model does not appeal to Asia," Killinger said. "There are also stories that there isn't necessarily much love between the Arabs and blacks."

The fashion industry is about identification and customers prefer to dream about a blonde, tall and slim girl, rather than someone who is black, Killinger said.

Few agencies specializing in black models have been established in Paris. Most of them, however, had to shut down. "Mode Black" survived, because the company also functions as a communications agency and does not only manage black models.

In Europe, blacks can only live off modeling in England or Italy, according to "Mode Black." In England, that's possible because of the local black communities and the ethnic advertising that caters to them. In Italy, designers simply book more blacks.

Away from France

Model ImanBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Another exception: Iman

For Tiguida this meant moving abroad. In mid-October she will travel first to Mali and then to the festival of African fashion in Niger, then to South Africa and the US to model.

It's only a slight consolation that others in the industry, such as models from the Maghreb region, are even worse off. An Arab friend of hers decided to go back to school after three years of modeling because she couldn't find any work.

"She really tried everything," Tiguida said. "She could work abroad, but her family doesn't want to let her go. That's why she quit -- she cannot work in France."


Martina Zimmermann (tip)

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:



I'm one of those fed up black men.

But I've come to see that the black woman is not my enemy.

She too has good reasons to be fed up.

Maybe healing can begin there? Mutual acknowledgement?

The problem is that the mutual acknowledgement is lacking. Yes, the high road is to always practice mutual acknowledgement even while you are getting crapped on, but every now & then, it's human to get tired of the lack of reciprocation.

Yes, they can get favorable attention at home from a brotha. But, not the exhilarating SHOCK of such exhuberant mass admiration that comes from a foreign, exotic male. That's different. Don't hate. Congratuate, instead.
Congradulate what, that some white dude finally acknowledges her beauty?? Does that make her now feel human. Her black man calling her beautiful is not good enough?? Thats a sad commentations my sista.

If a woman pretty much go through her life, up to that point, without nary a glance from white males, BELIEVE ME when I tell you that the sudden, unexpected, and constant attention and admiration will not go unnoticed and she will never forget it.

Very sad commentation in deed !!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OhBlackButterfly:


hi OBB!....im here too. ITA...got nothing else to say.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Yes, they can get favorable attention at home from a brotha. But, not the exhilarating SHOCK of such exhuberant mass admiration that comes from a foreign, exotic male. That's different. Don't hate. Congratuate, instead.
Congradulate what, that some white dude finally acknowledges her beauty?? Does that make her now feel human. Her black man calling her beautiful is not good enough?? Thats a sad commentations my sista.

If a woman pretty much go through her life, up to that point, without nary a glance from white males, BELIEVE ME when I tell you that the sudden, unexpected, and constant attention and admiration will not go unnoticed and she will never forget it.

Very sad commentation in deed !!

~Congratulate what? Well, of course, congratulate her awakening and moving on outside of the box some would rather see her rot in before they acknowledge that it's all good for her to step out as others have. As, brothas have. It is indeed a sad thing to be loyal to a fault. To be loyal when it isn't returned loyalty for loyalty. Some black women just are NOT attracted to any man but a BLACK man, and some black women never even considered stepping outside. They have NO IDEA that there is a segment of the male population that actually has "thing" for them, the SAME way that the world over has a "thing" for blonde blue-eyed Barbie. That is sad. So, congratulate her for waking up to ALL of her options, because the alternative IS sad. It's not about the black man telling her that she's beautiful. It's about the DISCOVERY that a black woman can be told that by SOMEONE ELSE OTHER THAN. Black men are desirable to a NUMBER of races of women, right? Right. You (some) men take that for granted to the point that you're clueless as to how that type of appreciation or admiration would feel to the black woman. Again, why begrudge her that? You scared or something? Jealous? Don't want to share some of the favorable attention? What's up with the whining? Just move the hell over. There's room. Plenty of room that a lot of us didn't even know about.

I hope that the annual tour gets bigger and bigger still. Let's see how many brothas get their panties in a bunch over it. Now THAT would be a sad sight indeed ---- after ALL the Jungle Fever that black women have had to swallow from black men for YEARS, to have you all show your natural azzes when the table starts to turn. "She hates herself"...."She's a heffa"....."She's going over there to get sex". Just deal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I think a lot of black women really want to be white women. They want the lifestyle of successful mainstream white women. Many think by going for a certain type of white man affords them this opportunity. This type of persona often is a big turn off for a lot of black men who love our black women for who they are.



i think most blk women just want to have all the privileges YT women have. not to just be YT.
i want a good and successful man. i want all the material things too. why is it wrong to want the best? no, why is it YT to want the best?
i have a good blk man but he aint rich, yet. im happy but i dont berudge any race of woman for going for the gold is she can get it.

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by OhBlackButterfly:

Black MEN experience it, too, by the way, so act like you know.



So, why begrudge them any favorable attention that comes their way, especially when it comes from the "least likely" or "least expected" givers of it? Yes, they can get favorable attention at home from a brotha. But, not the exhilarating SHOCK of such exhuberant mass admiration that comes from a foreign, exotic male. That's different. Don't hate. Congratuate, instead.

This is true. For some reason, Italians (men and women) find black people attractive. For a good little while, I dated Italian women (to the point of learning to speak Italian).

Positive attention can be a good thing. It's definitely a welcome contrast to the attention we normally get.

~EXACTLY!!!~

But I think it's useful to also realize that much of their attraction is to the "exotic" - not to you. Especially if you don't live for an extended time among them.

PS: It's from Italian male friends that I really learned to see (to really see) the beauty in black women ...

~Now THAT speaks volumes! You are true to your screen name! LOL! Many a black men wouldn't admit to something like that, or even admit to seeing the point in the Italy tour. They do SEE it and they get it, but they'll never rise to admitting that. ~

quote:

Originally posted by ladyj:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OhBlackButterfly:


hi OBB!....im here too. ITA...got nothing else to say.

~HEY LADYJ!! ~

First of all I havent seen a law written that tells black women they cant date certain VMEN. She is free to do whatever she feels necessary to make her happy. MY POINT IS THE FACT THAT BLACK WOMEN FEEL THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE VALIDATED AS HUMAN BEINGs, IS IF SOME WHITE DUDE PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGES HER BEAUTY. The fact of the matter is less than 10% of black people period marry outside their race. That means 90% are married to someone who looks like them. So all this black man having jungle fever is overblown. I just wish BLACK WOMEN WILL LOVE THEMSELVES NATURALLY THE WAY GOD CREATED THEM AND STOP DREAMING OF THE DAY WHEN THE EUROCENTRIC WORLD WILL PLACE HER ON THE PEDESTAL BESIDE THE WHITE WOMAN. YOUR BLACK MAN ALREADY KNOWS YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL. I JUST WISH MORE SISTAS WOULD REALIZE THAT

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
YOUR BLACK MAN ALREADY KNOWS YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL. I JUST WISH MORE SISTAS WOULD REALIZE THAT

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26170384/m/1831008844/p/3

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
YOUR BLACK MAN ALREADY KNOWS YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL. I JUST WISH MORE SISTAS WOULD REALIZE THAT

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26170384/m/1831008844/p/3

But let's also not forget

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26170384/m/5431031563

SO DOES THESE EXAMPLE SUGGEST BLACK MEN DONT THINK THEIR WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL??

DO BLACK WOMEN NEED WHITE MEN TO TELL THEM THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL??? DOES THAT VALIDATE THEM?

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
SO DOES THESE EXAMPLE SUGGEST BLACK MEN DONT THINK THEIR WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL??

Uhh... yep...

Black men (In GENERAL) like mixed women.... or anywhere near there or WHITE... when they can't get that... they settle for whatever is nice and available... or.. they become ultra radical and their brains are force fed the image of black women as beautiful and they began to talk "black is beautiful" and sleep with white women or continue to covet mixed women....

this creates jealousy, insecurity and inferiority complexes in the women of their stock... and they turn to these women and say brilliant uniting things like:

stop being jealous, insecure... and your problem is you're too fat.. got too many children (from men that are available and have mastered macking ala' RR )stuff like that...

quote:

DO BLACK WOMEN NEED WHITE MEN TO TELL THEM THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL??? DOES THAT VALIDATE THEM?

Many are getting to that point... and feeling validated by it...

SHango aint here so I will repeat... I understand that feeling... once at work you can't help but compare the different treatment...

the difference for me is I'm not attracted to white men... which has little to do with my philosophy its just straight physical repulsion... white men cannot compare to black men..

period.

my religious beliefs just provide a house for my natural distaste...

Uhh... yep...

Black men (In GENERAL) like mixed women.... or anywhere near there or WHITE... when they can't get that... they settle for whatever is nice and available... or.. they become ultra radical and their brains are force fed the image of black women as beautiful and they began to talk "black is beautiful" and sleep with white women are continue to covet mixed women....
YES THERE ARE SOME BROTHERS COLOR STRUCK , JUST LIKE SISTAS, BUT I SUBMIT THE MAJORITY OF BLACK MEN I KNOW LOVE BLACK WOMEN, SO I THINK YOU ARE BEING TO GENERAL HERE

I understand that feeling... once at work you can't help but compare the different treatment.

WHAT DIFFERENT TREATMENT IS THAT? DOES IT GIVE YOU A FEELING OF ACCEPTANCE INTO THE HUMAN RACE WHEN THE WHITE MAN MAKES YOU FEEL BEAUTIFUL?

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
SO DOES THESE EXAMPLE SUGGEST BLACK MEN DONT THINK THEIR WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL??

Uhh... yep...

Black men (In GENERAL) like mixed women.... or anywhere near there or WHITE... when they can't get that... they settle for whatever is nice and available... or.. they become ultra radical and their brains are force fed the image of black women as beautiful and they began to talk "black is beautiful" and sleep with white women or continue to covet mixed women....

Hey!...


I - for one - like dark women.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Uhh... yep...

Black men (In GENERAL) like mixed women.... or anywhere near there or WHITE... when they can't get that... they settle for whatever is nice and available... or.. they become ultra radical and their brains are force fed the image of black women as beautiful and they began to talk "black is beautiful" and sleep with white women are continue to covet mixed women....
YES THERE ARE SOME BROTHERS COLOR STRUCK , JUST LIKE SISTAS, BUT I SUBMIT THE MAJORITY OF BLACK MEN I KNOW LOVE BLACK WOMEN, SO I THINK YOU ARE BEING TO GENERAL HERE

Erm... there has NEVER been a generation of "DARK SKIN, KINKY HAIRED FEMALE IS IN!" phase... lol...

but we are in a dark skin male is HOT phase....

shoot even in slavery black men were considered so attractive their women had to be protected... erm... nobody was protected from the "beauty" of the kinky haired black woman... she was game...

so that tit for tat ish don't fly...

its not reality...

quote:

WHAT DIFFERENT TREATMENT IS THAT? DOES IT GIVE YOU A FEELING OF ACCEPTANCE INTO THE HUMAN RACE WHEN THE WHITE MAN MAKES YOU FEEL BEAUTIFUL?

Why isn't your question directed towards your brethren and asking them why the heck their tastes runs towards the fairer woman.... I bet you'll find your answer if you began there...

naw....

that's too much work...

you won't do it...

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
SO DOES THESE EXAMPLE SUGGEST BLACK MEN DONT THINK THEIR WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL??

Uhh... yep...

Black men (In GENERAL) like mixed women.... or anywhere near there or WHITE... when they can't get that... they settle for whatever is nice and available... or.. they become ultra radical and their brains are force fed the image of black women as beautiful and they began to talk "black is beautiful" and sleep with white women or continue to covet mixed women....

Hey! ... I - for one - like dark women.

Honestly HB... my statements are not a call to reject lighter skinned women... its simply to be honest and admit that colorism exists heavy in the black male mind... and if one wants to know why many black women are turning coat... its because they are desperately trying to find acceptance without feeling lonely...

black men have rejected many of us...

and many sisters are choosing to fly to the enemy... and the black male response is denial... or more put downs...

so... we have a large segment of the black female community that feels rejected....

even in relationships...

and though I AM NOT EEN one to go to some cracka to feel better...

I get why...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

WHAT DIFFERENT TREATMENT IS THAT? DOES IT GIVE YOU A FEELING OF ACCEPTANCE INTO THE HUMAN RACE WHEN THE WHITE MAN MAKES YOU FEEL BEAUTIFUL?

Why isn't your question directed towards your brethren and asking them why the heck their tastes runs towards the fairer woman.... I bet you'll find your answer if you began there...

naw....

that's too much work...

you won't do it...

In fairness ... I do recall that when this issue was raised recently ... the male response was to shut down the discussion - or rather to claim that the main discussion had been hijacked.

It's a good question when posed to members of either gender.

The male response does usually seem to be some form of denial.

quote:

Why isn't your question directed towards your brethren and asking them why the heck their tastes runs towards the fairer woman.... I bet you'll find your answer if you began there...

Now this caught my eye.

1) Are you saying that there are some African-American women that are not "mixed"?

2) If our genetics allow us to recreate all shades of complexion, are you saying all shades of African-American women should be equally preferred?

3) Does the perceived lack of interest in darker women result in apprehension when they are approached for relationships?

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

WHAT DIFFERENT TREATMENT IS THAT? DOES IT GIVE YOU A FEELING OF ACCEPTANCE INTO THE HUMAN RACE WHEN THE WHITE MAN MAKES YOU FEEL BEAUTIFUL?

Why isn't your question directed towards your brethren and asking them why the heck their tastes runs towards the fairer woman.... I bet you'll find your answer if you began there...

naw....

that's too much work...

you won't do it...

In fairness ... I do recall that when this issue was raised recently ... the male response was to shut down the discussion - or rather to claim that the main discussion had been hijacked.

It's a good question when posed to members of either gender.

The male response does usually seem to be some form of denial.

Kindly, where's the thread you're talking about?

I dont know where all these sistas get black men dont like darkskinned women and darked skin women have never been in. I think this is dishonesty and to an extent I think this is self hate projected on men. MANY, MANY DARKSKINNED SISTAS WONT EVEN TALK TO A BROWNSKINNED OR DARKSKINNED MAN, THEY WANT A LIGHTSKINNED BROTHER. WHY IS THAT?? LETS TELL THE WHOLE STORY OK. Because some brothers like ligthskinned sistas doesnt make it so for all or even most black men.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I dont know where all these sistas get black men dont like darkskinned women and darked skin women have never been in. I think this is dishonesty and to an extent I think this is self hate projected on men. MANY, MANY DARKSKINNED SISTAS WONT EVEN TALK TO A BROWNSKINNED OR DARKSKINNED MAN, THEY WANT A LIGHTSKINNED BROTHER. WHY IS THAT?? LETS TELL THE WHOLE STORY OK. Because some brothers like ligthskinned sistas doesnt make it so for all or even most black men.

*sigh*..

Zakar... I just can't today... I just can't...


Salaam....

quote:

Originally posted by ddouble:

quote:

Why isn't your question directed towards your brethren and asking them why the heck their tastes runs towards the fairer woman.... I bet you'll find your answer if you began there...

Now this caught my eye.

1) Are you saying that there are some African-American women that are not "mixed"?

Most of us are "mixed" - even those of us that don't look it.

quote:

2) If our genetics allow us to recreate all shades of complexion, are you saying all shades of African-American women should be equally preferred?

In a perfect world - one devoid of historically verifiable color prejudice - you might expect a more or less equal appreciation for all shades of women - all other things remaining equal.

Personally, I've been attracted to all types of shades of women in the past. It's really not an issue with me. Although nowadays I tend to lean towards darker women.

quote:

3) Does the perceived lack of interest in darker women result in apprehension when they are approached for relationships?

Probably. To some extent anyway.

Pre-conceptions can condition our reactions.

Wow!...when I brought this up earlier....oh well....never mind.

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

3) Does the perceived lack of interest in darker women result in apprehension when they are approached for relationships?

Probably. To some extent anyway.

Pre-conceptions can condition our reactions.

This reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a friend. She was telling me about a woman who was interested in me. But I had no idea. She said this woman assumed that I would prefer either white or lighter skinned women. So she didn't bother.

Both of those examples were

khaliqua, black women have been acknowledged on this site as being beautiful in many other threads. I'm wondering why you chose to select my thread where I talked about Anoushka but you couldn't post a link to the thread that talked about sexy black female bodybuilders?

honestbrother, everybody knows your tongue is as brown as a pair of Pic n' Pay Buster Browns. Your posting of your thread is null and void. And don't try to redirect the focus from your lame rhetoric. khaliqua also coddles your butt-licking comments as well as any other female that feels they need to have their existence and worthiness validated through shallow, planted comments.

There is something wrong with a sister that expresses hatred toward women of other races and even nationalities, brown skinned and all, as if their beauty should not be acknowledged.

I get sick and damn tired of black women crying about not being acknowledged when black women have been saught after just as black men have throughout human history.

Zakar is right - a lot of black women don't want to admit it but they want to be white. You can't deny it - young black females have been tested in the past and in contemporary times and in each and every case little black girls chose white dolls over black dolls. They grow up with that same mentality buried deep in their psyche and it manifests itself in the way they try to emulate as much eurocentricity in their hairstyles and the millions they put into trying to look white.

I'll be damned if I want to look like a white boy. And I don't want anything a white man wants any more than what any man would want in his life: Sucess and happiness. A lot of you black women simply can't get it in your heads - damn the ignorant ass brothers that don't know how to appreciate a sister. There's thousands of brothers out there, including myself, that would love to wed a beautiful sister. And brothers like me aren't looking for sisters with wafer thin bodies, damn near white skin, and permed hair. Brothers like me wouldn't have had to give women of other races and nationalities the time of day if sisters' standard of attraction wasn't such a skewed and gross misrepresentation of manhood and masculinity.

Zakar is right - a lot of black women don't want to admit it but they want to be white. You can't deny it - young black females have been tested in the past and in contemporary times and in each and every case little black girls chose white dolls over black dolls. They grow up with that same mentality buried deep in their psyche and it manifests itself in the way they try to emulate as much eurocentricity in their hairstyles and the millions they put into trying to look white.

I'll be damned if I want to look like a white boy. And I don't want anything a white man wants any more than what any man would want in his life: Sucess and happiness. A lot of you black women simply can't get it in your heads - damn the ignorant ass brothers that don't know how to appreciate a sister. There's thousands of brothers out there, including myself, that would love to wed a beautiful sister. And brothers like me aren't looking for sisters with wafer thin bodies, damn near white skin, and permed hair. Brothers like me wouldn't have had to give women of other races and nationalities the time of day if sisters' standard of attraction wasn't such a skewed and gross misrepresentation of manhood and masculinity.[/QUOTE]

~*sniff*sniff* Yehp! How are you going to fix your mouth to berate a black woman for feeling "not quite up to par" in the eyes of the black man when YOU go out of your way to make it plain? On one hand you praise the black womans beauty, and how you'd love to marry her, and then what you SHOW to black women is how you would NOT ONLY let HER know to her FACE that you want to hook up with a nonblack woman, but you go so far as to have the audacity to attempt to PLACE said BLACK woman, in the TACKIEST MOST DISTASTEFUL position possible, of her having to look this NONblack woman in the face, as a favor for YOU, and tell the NONblack woman that you're insterested in HER?!!. You couldn't think of Noooooooooobody else to do you this favor, huh? Okay.

You just don't get it. And you're grown, right? Therefore SET in your mind. If you don't get it by now, and by being black, then you just WON'T get it. I understand now. There's no point in debating a topic with people that don't inherently "get it". You have to have a BASIC tendency to empathize and place yourself in the other's shoes. You don't empathize. You administer arrogant spiteful "tests" to provide yourself with so-called "proof" of your twisted mindset.

So, tell me, when your co-worker reacted to the "favor" you asked of her, did you take notes on her facial expression? How did she walk off? I know you said she played it off nice-nice at first. Was it that same day or the next when you realized that she didn't do what you'd asked of her? Did you take any bets on whether or not she would? Which side did you bet on? Just curious. Of course, you knew from the jump that she wasn't going to do it, though. You just wanted to ask her anyway so you could play with her head, no?....the "depths of her psyche"....You wanted to conduct an experiment of your own in the same vein as the barbydoll one.... Or maybe you just wanted to take her down a peg or two if she was holding her head a little too high around the office that day. Was that it? Do tell. Why'd you reeeeally plot such a scenario as this, oh, devious one?~

quote:

Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

honestbrother, everybody knows your tongue is as brown as a pair of Pic n' Pay Buster Browns. Your posting of your thread is null and void. And don't try to redirect the focus from your lame rhetoric.

STFU.

Unless you're going to directly engage my thinking. Instead of making lame azz b*tchy attacks against a person you don't know and most of whose posts you haven't bothered to read very carefully. Much less point by point argue with.

I don't even think that you bothered to read (and understand) my so called "example". I was trying to point out self-defeating behavior on the part of a woman because of her mental pre-conceptions. And I posted my thread to show Khalliqa that there has indeed been appreciation shown to black women on the board. The very same point you try to make yourself.

I thought that YOU of all people would appreciate that. But oh nooo. You're so determined to * whine * that you just reacted in the unthinking knee-jerk fashion typical of you. Much like the women you criticize. I guess it takes one to know one.

I mean really ... your idea of disagreeing with someone is to name call like a little you know what. Then got the nerve to call somebody else "effeminate".

You are the very last person to talk about the public perception of black female desireability. Because it would be very difficult to gather by MOST of your posts that you have anything but contempt for black women ... or for anyone who is proudly pro-black for that matter.

And anyone who does express appreciation of black women is a "brown-noser". As opposed to what you do when you invite your co-workers to happy hour ...

Sounds like you're in denial. And trying to cover it with lame rhetoric. As in

quote:

Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
I get sick and damn tired of black women crying about not being acknowledged when black women have been saught after just as black men have throughout human history.

What history??????????????????????????????

You yourself acknowledged the colorism in Bollywood ...

Certainly, much the same is true (historically) of Hollywood and American mass media. What "history" is within living memory?

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
First of all I havent seen a law written that tells black women they cant date certain VMEN. She is free to do whatever she feels necessary to make her happy. MY POINT IS THE FACT THAT BLACK WOMEN FEEL THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE VALIDATED AS HUMAN BEINGs, IS IF SOME WHITE DUDE PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGES HER BEAUTY. The fact of the matter is less than 10% of black people period marry outside their race. That means 90% are married to someone who looks like them. So all this black man having jungle fever is overblown. I just wish BLACK WOMEN WILL LOVE THEMSELVES NATURALLY THE WAY GOD CREATED THEM AND STOP DREAMING OF THE DAY WHEN THE EUROCENTRIC WORLD WILL PLACE HER ON THE PEDESTAL BESIDE THE WHITE WOMAN. YOUR BLACK MAN ALREADY KNOWS YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL. I JUST WISH MORE SISTAS WOULD REALIZE THAT

~I don't see any such laws either, nor did I refer to one. The point is, the black woman can WANT TO DATE whomever ALL DAY LONG, but she CAN NOT DATE anyone who doesn't want to date HER. Get it now? If the general consensus is that dark and kinky is not desirable in women (while the same is NOT TRUE of the black man's desirability), then THIS IS WHERE THE BLACK WOMAN GATHERS HER INFORMATION FROM. We didn't dream it up, we're not making it up. It is what it is. And you have to have GOOD PARENTS to COUNTER the information that black children receive. Of course a friggin' experiment on little black girls and babydolls is going to reveal the PROGRAMMING received. Duh! THAT'S what is all over the place. We certainly didn't see OURSELVES represented on the toyshelf. I too wish that beauty wasn't held up to "western standards". It is what it is. BUT, APPARENTLY Italian men didn't GET THAT MEMO nor do they subscribe to such a shallow notion, hence the Italy tour experience sponsored by BlackWeekly. Get it now?

It's not the end of the world, nor is it a big deal and a scar on the face of black consciousness. It's a welcome fresh breeze in the otherwise stifling room that black woman have been placed. A nonblack population openly admitting and embracing black beauty? Come on now. That smacks in the face of all that we've been programmed to believe for a few hundred years family generations now. Who wouldn't want to have a piece of smacking racist propaganda in the face? That's the cherry on top, or the spit in massa's eye or in his water---- whichever way you look at it.~

from: Zakar

quote:

MY POINT IS THE FACT THAT BLACK WOMEN FEEL THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE VALIDATED AS HUMAN BEINGs, IS IF SOME WHITE DUDE PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGES HER BEAUTY.

Is that right? Then seems to me the Black man hasn't been doing his job properly, probably cause he's too busy looking over our shoulders at anyone who isn't Black. However truthfully speaking I don't know of "ANY" Black women who felt validated by men of other races, that would mean she's got serious issues with her self esteem. But just so you know our attraction from other races doesn't start or stop with Italians, guess who else has a thang for us, the Swedes, as well as Germans. So perhaps it's a good idea for Black women to broaden her scope since Black men feel so many of us aren't qualified, it's good for the sista's to know that not only are there too many fish in the sea, but the fish come in various species & colors.

You want to know why I don't acknowledge your ramblings, rants, and wishy washy, yes ma'am rhetoric, honestboy? Because the first comment I read of yours was when you whinned like a little girl about not knowing how to socialize in Kentucky and Ebonyrose clowned you - told you to get out of Kentucky. Instead of laughing at your pathetic ass I decided to offer you a little empathy by sharing my experience of moving to a small town in the middle of nowhere as well as giving you a little insight on southern culture.

Next you whinned about needing guidance from older people and I offered a little advice. I could have laughed at you like everyone else and kept it moving but I offered my two cents. Instead of appreciating it you showed your ass and acted out like any obnoxious teenager would. To make matters worse you had the gall to not only insult a guy that's been here a hell of a lot longer than you because he was white you also told him to leave the conversation? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? NOBODY. YOU'RE NOBODY TO TELL RICARDOMATH TO LEAVE A DISCUSSION. I guess in your juvenile delinquent state of mind you thought yo peeps was going to jump on the bandwagon with you but you was pissing in the wind by yourself.

Next you act self-righteous about dating, being selective as if you had a life, as if you had a CHOICE and act like you holier than thou when you've been in Kentucky ( FOR HOW MANY MONTHS??) and just now can talk about going out on a date. You ride my balls - calling me immature and having self-esteem issues because I dropped the 411 on my sexual encounter when you were nearly busting at the seems to tell me you were going on a damn date. What kind of teenage high-school sit-com bullshit is this? This ain't "That's so Raven!" The fuck outta here with that shit. Calling somebody "primitive" when you don't even know how to develop a friendship with a colleague where you work. You can't even find a friend at a church. That's a damn shame.

Now, lets get to history:

quote:

Originally posted by honestboy:

What history??????????????????????????????

Let me drop a few quotes on your uninformed ass:

Black women of antiquity were legendary for their beauty and power. During this time, the African woman with her typical African physiognomy was believed to be the standard of beauty in that part of the ancient world. - Jane Musoke-Nteyafas

"Black women come from Africa blood...so most of them do not have long, naturally flowing hair like the women in movies, television, commercials and the women in the NBA....Long flowing hair simply isn't a biological characteristic of authentic black women and of course there has NEVER been a single pre-colonial society in Africa, not even in Egypt or Ethiopia where long [flowing-added by writer] hair was the standard of beauty (at least not until 1900)..." - Kola Boof



"By the time Alexander the Great was sweeping the civilized world with conquest after conquest from Chaeronia to Gaza, from Babylon to Cabul; by the time the first Aryan conquerors were learning the rudiments of war and government at the feet of the philosopher Aristotle; and by the time Athens was laying down the foundations of European civilization, the earliest and greatest Ethiopian culture had already flourished and dominated the civilized world for over four centuries and a half.

......Thus, at the time when Ethiopia was leading the civilized world in culture and conquest, East was East, but West was not, and the first European (Grecian) Olympiad was yet to be held. Rome was nowhere to be seen on the map, and sixteen centuries were to pass before Charlemagne would rule in Europe and Egbert became first King of England. Even then, history was to drag on for another seven hundred weary years, before Roman Catholic Europe could see fit to end the Great Schism, soon to be followed by the disturbing news of the discovery of America and the fateful rebirth of the youngest of world civilizations." - Joseph B. Danquah

Source: Where is the love of all things African?

Research this too:

The Global African Presence by Runoko Rashidi

Make the connections throughout history first and then get back to me with some more obnoxious, uninformed remarks, then I'll get back with you and show you how to make the connection where the standards of African beauty were muddled by European influence.