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quote:
Originally posted by virtue/Khalliqa:
Here you place emphasis on Africa's regal past "behind".... meaning not something "in front" to focus on....


The "us" is us here on the message board and "us" African adults. Not "us" as in Black children in the classroom.

I mean "put the past behind us" in a metaphorical sense of realizing that it's imporantance is historical and not contemporary in terms of actually deciding events. What good would it do to know all about Emperor Khufu and little about what the present day state of Nigeria is.

quote:
When someone says "That is behind me now.." they are stressing its placement out of their lives....


It's "behind me" like my childhood is "behind me". It has an effect on me today, but it's not the forefront of my issues. My adult problems take presidence over fond memories of my childhood.

quote:
It has not been my intention to do so.... I am interpreting your words... if I am incorrect, I will listen...... please follow suit and do not assign ill motive where there is none...

passion? yes.. frustration? sure...


Sorry if I misunderstood you or you misunderstood me. I'll try to be more clear in the future.


quote:
when you say put Africa's regal past "behind" us... that sends the message to place out of sight...


If I meant out of sight, I would have said it like that. I'm not one to mince words, I try to be blatant in my speech.

Behind doesn't mean out of sight, it means of secondary importance. At least that's what it means to me. I don't know if it meant that to you. Africa's past history is not as important as it's present history.

quote:
Many of us here on this board are inquisitive... children or others may not have the time or be currently interested... other's will not have the same perspective... many have never read any book by any Black historian... and have never heard of Nubia..... our people do need this information.... at its basics.....


All children should learn African history in elementary in middle school. Then contemporary African history in high school.

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EP.. you seem to be intelligent.... most people are not as well read as you... and certainly not children.... many people know nothing of Africa's past... not even African's....


Well that should be rectified ASAP. Frown

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No one discusses it, because it is not necessary.... it is a given... the entire educational system is based off of European thought and history....


And that needs to change. European history should not be the sole de facto history taught in school.


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On the board's we speak mind to mind... I am a fervent believer in the purity of communication this way... your mind is astute... yet you are young....

Diop's Civilization or Barbarism was translated in 1991... This would make you somewhere around a preteen when the book first surfaced...

apologies...


Sorry if I've sounded angry, I misunderstood and thought you were purposely taking my comments out of place. Smile

In 1991, I was 5 years old. Razz I never got to read it in school because it was never in my school library or my community one (which was recently greatly expanded while I was away at college). When I get some time, I'll look for it at my local library or my college one. Smile

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Because it is the defacto history taught.... and it is within their professional review that many here base their ideas to reject Black history....


Who's rejecting Black history? At first I thought HB was, but now that he's expanded what he meant, I realized that he wasn't saying we should reject it.

quote:
That idea is unnecessarily brought up among many here who are not monolithic overly idealistic Black thought worshippers... it comes off as somewhat offensive... as if to embrace our own history we need to be reminded that there is a world going on.... please, understand this...


I meant that as we embrace our history, we are reminded of how they relate to modern issues. And after we learn our past, we learn our present.

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The reason why white folk history is brought out in discussion is because their seems to be no critique of something so pervasive until it's Black...


We were never discussing European history which is why no one is talking about how prevalent their history is.

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The Kings and Queens of Europe wont' get me a job... but if their entire history was left out of the school books... it would be a good thing to protest.... and one can do so... and eat...


I agree, the Kings and Queens of Europe won't save anyone today. Europe's past is behind it, modern-day Europe has more of an effect on the world.

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No one here to my knowledge has said study Black history to the exclusion of everything else in the world including present day Africa...

the sentiment is that African history is important to the study of present day Africa... that is all.... that does not assign quantity of time put in.... simply the quality of understanding what one sees presently...


I don't see conversations about modern African issues getting as much attention or as much imput as conversations on ancient Africa.

quote:
I'm simply interpreting your words and what they mean to me... through dialogue one sees how their words appear to others... and one sees how to clearly interpret what is being said...


that is all....


And maybe that's the problem, you're reading too much into what I say. Smile

quote:
Education for me permeates every stage in life... I primarily speak from what I know.... undergrad and down.... crucial stages of development and understanding, but I also speak from the broader perspective, because I am an adult who is well read and went to college and hangs out with professors...

sue me...


Africa's past history should be our starting education.

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When creating a curriculum for a disenfranchised people who know little to nothing about their history save what their current oppressor allow or propagate... one should consider the imbalance that has been created .....


Which I am.


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There was a civil war in Rwanda.... between Tutsi's and Hutus,.... To understand their frustration I had to understand their history.... and the societies involved in exacerbating their tensions.... This society was a FOCAL point in my studies which led me to studying the history of many other societies and all the perspectives involved in the conflict.... very diverse...

It was interesting... I began to see a pattern....

and patterns predict....



Peace,
Khalliqa


Yes, their past history does have a major effect on why they are fighting today. But their modern history (Belgian colonialism and the class society it created) are a more pressing reason why they fight. Most of their fighting is a direct cause of past Belgian colonialism, the actions of the Hutu government, the actions of Tutsi rebel groups, and Western agitation.

Question: Which do you see as more important? Past or present history?

If you say "past", I would ask, "Is it because you are ashamed of Africa's turbulent present and it's enslavement?"
Salaam,


quote:
I have to ask, those of us who stress the past so heavily, is it because we are consciously or subconsciously ashamed of Africa's present starving peoples and subserviant state to the Western world?



The stress laid on teaching black history has much more to do with correcting a pathology in the present than learning for the sake of vanity.

What are the psychological effects of believing that black history begins with the transatlantic slave trade?

What does that do to the psyche?

If for your entire history you have been a subservient member of society, what does that do to your current belief about yourself, and your people?

Understanding history gives one a wider view. It broadens the self identity of the former slave...

You are what you swallow..This is just as true of the human mind as it is with the body.

If you used to be a king and queen it raises the idea of ruling again..in the present.


Kai
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Sorry if I've sounded angry, I misunderstood and thought you were purposely taking my comments out of place. Smile

In 1991, I was 5 years old. Razz I never got to read it in school because it was never in my school library or my community one (which was recently greatly expanded while I was away at college). When I get some time, I'll look for it at my local library or my college one. Smile


EP.. the last thing I want to do is argue with you....

ummm... 5 in 1991????? I was 18 in 1991 and the next year entered courtship... a year later got married and a year after that had my first child.... I think you would have been 7.... sck

you're a baby... a genius baby... but a baby.... Razz



quote:
And maybe that's the problem, you're reading too much into what I say. Smile


Cute...

we'll see.. Smile

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Africa's past history should be our starting education.


That is the essential point I was making....

quote:
Question: Which do you see as more important? Past or present history?

If you say "past", I would ask, "Is it because you are ashamed of Africa's turbulent present and it's enslavement?"


No, of course not... but really Kai summed up my feelings on the subject nicely...


Here:

-----------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Saracen:
Salaam,



quote:
I have to ask, those of us who stress the past so heavily, is it because we are consciously or subconsciously ashamed of Africa's present starving peoples and subserviant state to the Western world?



The stress laid on teaching black history has much more to do with correcting a pathology in the present than learning for the sake of vanity.

What are the psychological effects of believing that black history begins with the transatlantic slave trade?

What does that do to the psyche?

If for your entire history you have been a subservient member of society, what does that do to your current belief about yourself, and your people?

Understanding history gives one a wider view. It broadens the self identity of the former slave...

You are what you swallow..This is just as true of the human mind as it is with the body.

If you used to be a king and queen it raises the idea of ruling again..in the present.


Kai



Peace,
Khalliqa
If you dont know your past, how are you gonna know where you are? If you dont know where you are, how are you gonna figure out where you wanna go.

Europeans are obsessed with their past, they always evaluate and reevalute their history. They celebrate it, the make romantic movies about it, they have countless tv programs dedicated soley to studying their past. You can do more than one thing at a time cant you. Historians are just as important as mathmaticians, or scientist.

No one is saying just live in the past and not deal with the present , but the present isnt just the present on its on, a past created it. You have to understand how things got the way they are in order to truely correct the mistakes that have been made.
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
IMO to keep Africa and her accomplishments in the past is very dangerous. Already many of us deny where we come from. To squabble over whether "massa" or the African Egyptian is the orginator of math/science shouldn't be the issue. At one while massa even said we were subhumans [2/3]...many believed that [and still do!]. Wasn't true though...was it? Massa has lied about everything [throughout history] to justify his ongoing power...to justify why we shouldn't believe in our own greatness/dreams/abilities..only his. We even have to ask massa if we're black. "Hey massa, am I black?" "Yeah niggah you black." "I thought I was I just needed you to say so cuz I'm kinda confused." Massa has successfully programmed/convinced us we need proof of our own remarkable legacy-as he continues to pass on the arrogance of his superiority generation to generation. Just cuz he wrote it on paper don't make it so. Massa use paper a lot to get his way or seal his word of truth. Ask the Indians how valid is massa's word on paper/treaty.[I still question his interpretation of the Rosetta Stone.]

It saddens me when I hear "us" say and have said over the years..."noah niggah it's ain't true cuz bossman says it ain't...and he knows..that bossman he knows everythang." And as Bigger Thomas look up at the blue sky watching the speed of the jet go roaring by, he secretly pray that one day he too will fly. Never realizing or would ever believe that his ancestors flew more than jets.

Those who forget their past are deemed to forget how to live in the present to survive for the future. The past set the stage for the future....Massa truly knows this....But us blackfolks...well we suffer from "past-interrupted." We say we need proof? We're here. That's proof enough! We say we need documentation....for whom? Go to the pyramids....massa couldn't burn that....he burned our books/strolls in Alexandria...He and his buddies Alexander the Great and Neopolean... but as hard as they tried... they couldn't burn our eye of knowledge/our proof... Our pyramids still stand tall! Go there and see!.....you don't need to read....just open eyes with your heart and you will finally know and feel what the "real" truth is.... fro
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
I have to ask, those of us who stress the past so heavily, is it because we are consciously or subconsciously ashamed of Africa's present starving peoples and subserviant state to the Western world?


I often view the 'historical presentation' of the great African dynasties, inventions, warriors etc. as act of desperation, in the telling. I read in awe, these contributions, of 'our' African ancestors, American and abroad, on this board and other sites I visit, but I am still/oftimes, left with, well what the heck happened? How do/will these historical 'artifacts' impact nation [re]building and affect revolutionary change; except for the literary and cautionary telling for other ethnic communities, and awakening my curiosity to find out more, and much more, much of the Afrocentrist discovery, for me fall flat, being that, the here and now, is[appears] set, for all intensive purposes. A small minority of African American/Black Africans appear to have the African diasporan communities best interest at heart, and I am aware of many 'warriors in our commnities, performing miracles for change; but the masses of our people, remain in a stasis of ignorance, willful apathy and fear; as such, the 'evil doers', have a maniacal and masochistic stronghold on the financial, psychological, and perceptual 'reality', of most things African. This may appear as a defeatist perception, but it is not. My original purposes for thinking 'black', reading 'black', cyber-surfing 'black', living 'black' etc. was to gird myself , and, to prepare for what I eagerly anticipate[d] as the 'inevitable' changing of the guard, of the ws power structure. This mindset, admittedly, is one that stems from my naive(?) and incredibly optimistic hopes for the African, from the days of my early youth; however, I hold on to them, much wiser of course; but there is that sense, that most/much Afro-centered discussion, is 'busy talk', even..... mental gymnastics.
''mental gymnastics---nayo

You used the phrase 'to gird myself'.

I think that is exactly what we were doing...'girding ourselves' to fight the color war of our society.

We empowered ourselves with authority over our color.

This took the 'power' over our state-of-mind out of the control of 'Charlie'.

The impact of our history on each of us varies, as might be expected.

The effect cannot be the same.

Knowing, however, is important.

Significance changes with time...maybe as a result of additional knowledge which may enable understanding.

Bondage, however, is mental.

Getting our of that bondage maybe rightly be seen as 'gymnastics'.

PEACE

Jim Chester

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