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Originally posted by EbonyRose
quote:
@ VOX and RB

You know ... what you both have said has been very ... oh, let's call it ... enlightening! And colorful. Eek

But .. let's face it, what y'all are talkin' about is some Disney World/Fantasyland, make-it-up-as-you-go-along, not remotely based in anything near reality, possibly delusional thinking! Eek

Because there are some people who are absolutely NOT going to (or more accurately, probably just CAN'T do it) ditch their immaturity and become conscientious and respect what to the rest of us are clear boundaries .. overnight!!

It's just not going to happen ... and the very reason that we're having this conversation RIGHT NOW should be (more than obvious) proof of that.

It is just totally and completely unrealistic to think that threads in both The Sisters Spot and here in The Den will NOT be hijacked by certain members of the opposite sex as long as the opportunity to do so is available! And it's also a trip through Wonderland to believe that once the offense has taken place, that that disruption will be ignored! The offender WILL get their 15 minutes of negative attention. And everybody else will be made miserable ... except them! sck

That is just the way that is .. and has always been. And to think that you can continue to do the same thing and expect a different result is ... well ... need I go on?

So rather than deal with what are essentially fantasies of the way things should or could be (but clearly are not ... and with no real possibility or indication that they ever will be), how about dealing with the reality of the situation as it really is.

The only way to ensure that The Den is reserved for male conversations and the same with The Sister's Spot for us women is to lock the other gender out from intrusion. And, as I said before, there are other areas of the board to have all the all-inclusive conversations you want.

So, either you want a place you can call your own ... or you don't. But you certainly won't have it by simply thinking that that's the way it ought to be.


fro You go sistagirltfro I totally agree. fro
A male friend made a comment to me today regarding insight into masculine nature the likes of which have been defined and represented on this thread...

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least.. He didn't try to justify such behavior as a man's right..

He also pointed out that though men enjoy the female form.. most men would prefer to have a complete human being and not just the form detached from the warmth of the woman... Women who display themselves as such are not compared to women who supply the man with comforts that extend past her a** and t**ts.. the former being dehumanized.. the latter being honored and appreciated.....

He told me that men in real life also don't have time to post pics (or anything else) on message boards.. period.. they are too busy living and not talking about living...

I would think some of the ladies here would do a greater service to their brethren than supporting and encouraging them to revel in their dysfunction at the expense of a woman's humanity.. I know some of the women desperately need male attention.. and feed off of it..

When men define themselves through their lower nature...supporting this need to exploit women as somehow enlightening is a serious self delusion and terrible sacrifice in exchange to being accepted among those who revel in the exploitation of women..

Please know that if a female goes around riding the jock of men who enjoy participating in dysfunctional behavior, of course she will get the positive response she desires.. However, I would hope that in the future such a woman would use her intelligence not to bottom feed.. but rise above such low standards..

You know there are men out there that like to involve themselves in real relationships with women... and are too busy to entertain anything otherwise...
quote:
Originally posted by Khaligula:

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least..


I'm merely responding out of entertainment. Understand your brainwashed rhetoric serves no other purpose.

Of course you would find your effeminate, fag hag-towing friend's comments to be appealing to you--because he's your friend. Anyone that would willfully spend any more time interacting with you in the real world any longer than the time it it would take to pass by you on a crowded sidewalk would be 100% suspect.

Why?

Because, first of all, a real man wouldn't waste his damn time telling you some gay ass shit like 'real men wouldn't waste time posting pics of women' unless he was gay or unless he was trying to set you up by getting you to lower your defenses in order to get in your panties. Secondly, and furthermore, a real woman, particularly a married woman with children wouldn't waste time chasing after men on a motherfucking discussion board trying to tell them how to spend their free time.


Real men wouldn't pass up an opportunity to feast their eyes on a fine ass specimen of a woman. A real man would only pass up an opportunity to salivate over a fine ass woman for three reasons:

1. If he's trying to restrain himself from straying away from his woman.

2. If he's hen pecked.

3. If he's trying to impress a woman by giving her the impression that looking at pictures of half naked, fine ass women doesn't appeal to him.
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
A male friend made a comment to me today regarding insight into masculine nature the likes of which have been defined and represented on this thread...

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least.. He didn't try to justify such behavior as a man's right..

He also pointed out that though men enjoy the female form.. most men would prefer to have a complete human being and not just the form detached from the warmth of the woman... Women who display themselves as such are not compared to women who supply the man with comforts that extend past her a** and t**ts.. the former being dehumanized.. the latter being honored and appreciated.....

He told me that men in real life also don't have time to post pics (or anything else) on message boards.. period.. they are too busy living and not talking about living...

I would think some of the ladies here would do a greater service to their brethren than supporting and encouraging them to revel in their dysfunction at the expense of a woman's humanity.. I know some of the women desperately need male attention.. and feed off of it..

When men define themselves through their lower nature...supporting this need to exploit women as somehow enlightening is a serious self delusion and terrible sacrifice in exchange to being accepted among those who revel in the exploitation of women..

Please know that if a female goes around riding the jock of men who enjoy participating in dysfunctional behavior, of course she will get the positive response she desires.. However, I would hope that in the future such a woman would use her intelligence not to bottom feed.. but rise above such low standards..

You know there are men out there that like to involve themselves in real relationships with women... and are too busy to entertain anything otherwise...


Your friend is a funny mo' fo'
Please tell him I said thanks for the laughs
Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart. There is nothing dysfunctional about enjoying photos of attractive women. And if you read between the lines of what he was saying, he basically backhandedly dissed you. By saying real men don't "have time to post... anything on message boards," he's saying that people generally who post on message boards have no life. You post on message boards. In fact, you have almost 60% more posts than I do on this site, even though I've been on the site roughly 75% longer than you. Plus, you post on several other sites. You have time to get into lengthy soap opera psychodrama wars with male posters. If he has any clue of any of that, then he was "neg-hitting" you, in the parlance of that weird seduction subculture.

Your friend was validating your statements, but the backhanded diss was aimed at opening you up psychologically. And you know what? I'm pulling for him.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

yeah... and it's not even strong game. Sounds to me like he was begging for validation by being overly agreeable, so much so that he went above and beyond the position she was taking... and she was so enjoying the ego boost, she didn't even notice the disrespect. Roll Eyes
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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
You do realize there is a difference between sexual objectification and appreciation right?


Of course which is why I shared the fact that I like looking at beautiful women to...however personally I prefer discretion and not just seeing women gyrating around which has become all to prevalent in this "video vixen" age which for the most part is objectifying women. To appreciate women you have to always be mindful that no matter how physically pleasing to the eye she is...she is a human being with an intellect, emotions and a soul... to the extent that some men lose sight of this allowing themselves to be blinded only by her physical is where part of the problem lies.


Ummm but I've been here for almost four years now and those who are truthful and have been here longer can attest that the den has RARELY been a place where women are respected..or any measure of enlightening conversation has taken place... The predominate threads (especially those popular threads completely removed from the Den and sent to the Big House! ) are about porn and how to pimp women..


Well, I have not been on this site that length of time nor have I paid much attention to the subject matter of the threads created in the Den...so my rational for suggesting that SOME of the content in the Den AND the Sista's Spot be gender specific is not rooted in anything sinister..such as promoting "porn" or "pimping". I'm basing this on the fact that Men and Women just simply won't always see things in the same way. In point of fact having CERTAIN content be gender specific can benefit posters in a positive way...For example say that a women on this board wishes to post a personal question of a "feminine nature" in the Sista's Spot...in order to garner feedback from her sista's. She might not want the men on this board to see said question realizing that some men might intrude in her discussion and or take it out of context and bring it up later in another conversation. Rather than being bothered by the prospect of this she could utilize a 'for women only feature' thereby maximizing women participation and eliminating the men's participation and vice versa.

quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So if the men are fighting for their right of privacy what they are fighting for is their right to privately objectify women.. because all they have displayed when left to their own conversations is the overwhelming ability to degrade women....


Ah yes... so herein lies the root of the matter...not only do you take issue with the things that offend you which you can see, you are also taking offense to even those things that you CAN'T see...how do you even begin to reconcile such a thing?...Might I suggest that you take heed of a quote I noticed you had on another site which said..."God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."...I believe if you apply that quote to this scenario you will garner a new found peace.


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also I used to not post in the Den at all until dudes started rolling up in Sistas Spot disrespecting all of us..


So your participation in the Den at this point is merely born out of retaliation for what you deemed to be... "dudes rolling up in Sistas Spot" disrespecting...as opposed to the fact that you simply find the content of the Den so offensive that you must comment on it...What was your original stance on the content of the Den PRIOR to this? and how did you choose to deal with it BEFORE this retaliatory approach of posting here out of spite against the men who posted in the Sista's spot?


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
interesting none of the manly women objectifying males in this section said anything then... nor their male attention starved female cronies.. lol...


Maybe they chose the same retailiatory method that you did and decided to simply post in the Den...Hence the reason that the Den is so active and the Sista's spot is all but a ghost town.


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
The retaliatory arguments in this thread are simply about the right to see porn and pimp articles,( calling this "manhood"), and requiring that no one take offense and say something about it...

and just like any strip club.. the females that are down with porn and pimps support their efforts...



As I pointed out above my personal rational for suggesting that CERTAIN content be gender specific has NOTHING to do with harboring "porn" or "pimping" (I have no idea why you keep focusing on these things) it's just based on the fact that Men and Women view things differently for the most part. Case in point a man might decide to post pic's of women in bikini's which you might view as "pornographic" due to your own personal standards..whereas other men might not see them as offensive at all. So for those of the opposite sex who cannot exercise the personal restraint to not enter threads that might contain content the nature of which might offend them... the 'private' gender specific feature could be deployed... problem solved.
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter
quote:
For starters lets get something straight I'm addressing this from a completely honest and purely MASCULINE perspective...So I know I may say some things that from a womens perspective she may not be able to fully relate to... Anyway just accept what I'm saying in the spirit in which it's given which is only to inform. There are some fundamental things about Men that women need to understand... one being that we are VISUAL when it comes to sexuality and what that means. This is not about choice with regard to what we are stimulated by it is purely PYSIOLOGICAL ...when a man see's an attractive women actual bio chemical processes are triggered this is NATURAL. This is the driving force which motivates Men to even pursue women in the first place which consequently keeps the human race going...it's just as natural as the womans desire and drive to give birth. Women can no more understand this aspect of men as men can understand why women would seek to be impregnated carry a child for nine months and then have it pulled from her body...in some cases multiple times. To the Masculine mind the idea of this type of thing happening to our bodies is Abhorrent...we are just not wired for such a thing. Now I'm not talking about effeminate punk men who want to be women their damn self ...I'm talking about REAL TESTOSTERONE DRIVEN MEN like myself.


fro

I appreciate your perspective Brotha LD. Always have. You continue to demonstrate your graciousness and respect for us womenfolk here on this board...time after time after time. I have noticed that regardless of the rage of debate between you and any woman poster, you STILL remain a gentlemen. As a mother of boys, I can tell that you are the protector in your family of womenfolk and appreciate the qualities women bring to the world. I can also tell that you don't play when it comes to the females in your family...I sense you are a Man's Man....this strength and chivalry unfolds perfectly here in such dignified elegance. That's a rarity to behold. Inexperienced "Boys" don't know what this is or what it means....but! A woman does.

Brotha LD, I totally get the visual part. I know most MEN are visual. And you're right it has something to do with the fact that women give birth and is WHY we are not so much directly in the visual side of men's persona as we are drawn to their character, intelllect and integrity. And the state of external beauty almost ALWAYS transforms sometimes in a form of oblivious and we women understand that dynamics....probably more than most men do. That doesn't mean that we don't look at men in a stimulating way...it's just different....but! We do LOOK and sometimes touch. But what most women are after....women-not whores/hoodrats or what we are interested in is what's going on inside of a man's heart/mind ...but! That's a scarry statement for the immature.

quote:
Of course which is why I shared the fact that I like looking at beautiful women to...however personally I prefer discretion and not just seeing women gyrating around which has become all to prevalent in this "video vixen" age which for the most part is objectifying women. To appreciate women you have to always be mindful that no matter how physically pleasing to the eye she is...she is a human being with an intellect, emotions and a soul... to the extent that some men lose sight of this allowing themselves to be blinded only by her physical is where part of the problem lies.


That's what I'm talking about my brotha! Having said that, some us women here on this board have grown accustom to the total impertinence some of these so-called "men" have in regards to us. We have to put on our gun holsters and be ready for battle when coming on this board-well at least I do. This is mainly because some men have come in our sista spot and spew absurdities to us when we were discussing issues close and dear to our souls....some times they try to either sabbotage the post itself or minimize the topic in a desperate effort to make a mockery out of our perspective. Yet on the other hand these SAME boys [they are not men to me] will exhibit their scum behavior during their observation of women in the Den-be it photo or discussion. When we defend our own honor, we are viciously attacked and debased and humiliated as if they [these men-oops I mean boys] do not have MOTHERS, or sisters or wives. It is as if they are harboring some sort of secret fury and resentment toward us..and are awaiting/itching at bay to lash out their personal "private hatred" on us in this very PUBLIC forum.

I am rarely in the den...no interestRoll Eyes However, I simply cannot allow "weak" men to say hurtful and disrespectful things about us when they know DAYUM well what they project is out of unsubstantial rage and stupidity i.e. the buck mentality. More importantly, I have sons...and if I ever heard one of them saying the disgusting things I hear from these lunatics here on this board about Black women...it will be more than SOAP in their mouths….and they know it. Under no circumstances will I tolerant it-I can't....it's just not in me. So I guess it's war when they start debasing, dehumanizing and "spewing" the unmentionable toward black women or children-merely for entertainment/sick amusement purposes-not on my watch! Black women and children have suffered enough in this country. And it's not over, I have to fight MASSA everyday to ensure that our youth receive what is rightful theirs-I am well prepared to fight weak little black boys who have the gawl to call themselves ""black" men. I raised boys to men. I know what it takes. These little younguns here on this board are NOT even close to having the goods....to be men.....nawl! Not even close. Cuz why? It's clear they have NOT been taught any better but most importantly: There. Is. No. Black. Unity. IN. THEIR. VEINS. They don't know what that is. You can easily tell by their disrespectful actions to the us-the women who represent the mothers who gave them LIFE. How arrogant is that?

BTW: I understand sexuality. It's a beautiful thing. But there's a place and time for everything. And you still can enjoy it while exercising "good" taste and being respectful. It's when it turns UGLY..then it's on. And I agree......it should be a locked site for both men and women...where one cannot enter unless invited......but! JMHO....is all.

fro


Thank you Kocolicious and you never cease to amaze me with your spirited insights...you actually hit the nail on the head with regard to the fact that I'm protective of the womenfolk in my family (along with some of my crazy cousins and uncles) that's just the way my family is. My sister's ex husband once called himself trying to put his hands on her (why'd he mess around and do that?) Let's just say he got dealt with.... and now has a VERY hard time walking.

Anyway, I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...As I told honest brother isn't the Den meant to be such a place? I mean after all the caption before entering this forum reads...

" Brothers, here's your place to lay it all out there!"...should that be edited to read "Brothers, here's your place to lay it all out there!...just so long as it doesn't offend certain sista's"?

At any rate, I understand the need that both Men and Women have to bond among their peers and who are we to judge how the opposite sex chooses to do it? I say live and let live I accept the way things are NATURALLY which is why I chose this as a quote..."It is irrational to want that which is not God's will, so attune thyself with thy inner Nature and live happily."

P.S.

Koco, while I greatly enjoy and appreciate the praise that you always lavish me with...sometimes I wish that I could be on your bad side at least for once... so that I could test my endurance against one of your famous withering tirades that are filled with so much spirit and wit I can barely even read through them without beaming like the sun...I feel I'm missing out, so I'm going to start the first LD vs Koco beef on this site with this statement...Kocolicious I can't STAND you....J/K.
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
At any rate, I understand the need that both Men and Women have to bond among their peers and who are we to judge how the opposite sex chooses to do it? I say live and let live I accept the way things are NATURALLY which is why I chose this as a quote..."It is irrational to want that which is not God's will, so attune thyself with thy inner Nature and live happily."


appl
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.



Instead of being all hurt and taking this personally... don't you think he has a point though? Don't you think that enjoying the company of a real woman in a real relationship, would be a lot better than fantasizing over a photo? There has to be a better a way for men to enjoy the beauty of black women instead of posting them naked...

A man who has just enjoyed a thanksgiving dinner has no need to post pictures of food to salivate over...



quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...


So basically you are against objectifying our women. But your approval of pictures of objectifying women in private leaves me confused.. what other negative and destructive behaviors would you condone simply because they are done privately?
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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.



Instead of being all hurt and taking this personally... don't you think he has a point though? Don't you think that enjoying the company of a real woman in a real relationship, would be a lot better than fantasizing over a photo? There has to be a better a way for men to enjoy the beauty of black women instead of posting them naked...
The two are not mutually exclusive, Khalliqa. Your friend has fed you the idea that a man either is in a relationship OR looks at pictures. I know you'll never listen to this (Sorry Kweli), but he is very transparent. In fact, he's disrespecting you just by figuring you would buy it. You can feel free to believe what you want. But it's clear he has you figured out perfectly, and is trying to reel you in.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
quote:
Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.


Here's Kweli4Real sincerely hoping Ms. K. seriously considers VOX's comment ... all but the part apart rooting for the guy spitting lines and running the game.
It's just that some people need to learn the hard way. It's a shame, but it's true.
Hmmmmm .... 19 ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in? Confused
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So basically you are against objectifying our women. But your approval of pictures of objectifying women in private leaves me confused.. what other negative and destructive behaviors would you condone simply because they are done privately?


See that's what I mean about the way in which different people view things...I don't find it "objectifying" simply by virtue of the fact someone is posting pictures...nor do I find it intrinsically "negative and destructive behavior". The fact that you do yet cannot restrain yourself from viewing and commenting on such things in the Den... Leads me to the suggestion that CERTAIN subject matter be withheld from public view.

Your issue seems to be a philosophical one...similar to "If a tree falls in the forest yet nobody hears it.. does it really make a sound?"...Or in this case "If men post pic's that Khalliqa might deem offensive yet she can't see them...are they STILL offensive?"
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
The two are not mutually exclusive, Khalliqa. Your friend has fed you the idea that a man either is in a relationship OR looks at pictures.


Hmmm..

From him I learn that a real man can be satisfied with a relationship with a woman and a productive career and that his lusts will be served in the context of a healthy relationship...

From you I learn that a man is never satisfied with a real woman and must ogle pics of naked women so that he can stimulate his lusts through imagination...

Wow Vox.. I used to think men were capable of thinking of women outside of sexuallly objectifying them.... but you're saying that men have no such ability...

or maybe it's just that "some" men have no such ability... 19
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quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So basically you are against objectifying our women. But your approval of pictures of objectifying women in private leaves me confused.. what other negative and destructive behaviors would you condone simply because they are done privately?


.I don't find it "objectifying" simply by virtue of the fact someone is posting pictures...nor do I find it intrinsically "negative and destructive behavior". [/b]



Oh? I'm still confused.. when you point out that women are not there to feed your carnal desires.. Are you saying the pics of womens A** in the air and legs spread are encouraging men to focus on her mind or a possible wholistic relationship??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... 19 ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in? Confused


Why would a woman whose MO is to sexually objectify herself as much as can be done through flirting on the internet for attention concern herself with a conversation on ceasing sexual objectification.. ??? Confused

*smh* sorry! Red Face because then the little bit of male attention she has received thus far would cease! According to this thread men have to stimulate their lusts through imaginary means... And there are no other redeeming qualities to offer...

so...
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... 19 ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in? Confused


Also, during this casual conversation, did the topic of women who post pics and lust over men happen to come up?
Can we get his opinion on the following, by substituting women or female?
quote:
He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least.. He didn't try to justify such behavior as a man's right..

He also pointed out that though men enjoy the female form.. most men would prefer to have a complete human being and not just the form detached from the warmth of the woman... Women who display themselves as such are not compared to women who supply the man with comforts that extend past her a** and t**ts.. the former being dehumanized.. the latter being honored and appreciated.....

He told me that men in real life also don't have time to post pics (or anything else) on message boards.. period.. they are too busy living and not talking about living...


I'm pretty we know the answer but I had to ask. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
The two are not mutually exclusive, Khalliqa. Your friend has fed you the idea that a man either is in a relationship OR looks at pictures.


Hmmm..

From him I learn that a real man can be satisfied with a relationship with a woman and a productive career and that his lusts will be served in the context of a healthy relationship...

From you I learn that a man is never satisfied with a real woman and must ogle pics of naked women so that he can stimulate his lusts through imagination...

Wow Vox.. I used to think men were capable of thinking of women outside of sexuallly objectifying them.... but you're saying that men have no such ability...

or maybe it's just that "some" men have no such ability... 19
Oh well, I tried. Recently, dazzled me with your brilliance in another context. But ideology so often works against applied intellect. You've found someone willing to provide you with ideological comforts. In so doing, he's got you to cast your mind to the winds. I wish you the best. And I take back what I said about me rooting for him.
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Vox,

If in a ploy to get to know me better, a friend of yours initiated conversation querying me regarding assumptions that I find you attractive...

His query may be filled with ill motive.. but what if his premise is correct? If I found you attractive he would be attempting to manipulate a truth for selfish reasons...

The premise.. having nothing to do with motive...

In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...

In one brief conversation he stated much.. he simply said that real men don't have time to spend on the net with such things.. if it was a back handed slap to me is of no consequence.. His remarks regarding his observations of men are still worthy...

If he states that a real man does not need pics when he has the real thing to access.. whether or not he wants to "access" me is of little consequence to the weight of his point regarding how men view women...

Incidentally that was HIS analogy I used.. He said "Once I finish a thanksgiving meal I don't need to look at pics of food" to make his point clear.. that resonated with me and was sound...

Your counterpoint is simply he is using game... and that men MUST ogle women.. I just found the two responses striking and chose which one showed black men in the better light since listening to you guys was starting to make feel like men were just irredeemable savages...

and as bone for you.. yes he laid into me and said I was lowering myself by talking to dudes on the internet like that anyway.. citing internet use for information and education... and I agree with him... I only came back because Moat asked me to.. but this part just had nothing to do with the issue at hand...

Incidentally I would find more disingenuous your supposed concern for whether or not some brother may or may not have ill intent than your desire to simply throw up a red herring to avoid addressing points that would cause self reflection...
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... 19 ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in? Confused


If he were a psychologist worth his weight, he'd probably say that this woman was using this topic to 1. mask another issue which she's *really* angry about and 2. project her own complete lack of internet boundaries onto others.

So...

That she was once the "belle of the ball" with regard to engaging in flirtatious net-play with multiple men in a particular net-community, feels like she lost the status, and is now spitting nails about it. [Btw, this behavior has been explained to me by multiple posters...]

And that she, of all people to promote a need for net-boundaries, initiates the most personally revealing set of conversations ever to hit the net - completely blurring the demarcation between real life interactions and bytes coming through a PC screen, all the while "outing" the confidences of multiple people without their prior permission in doing so.

If the "friend" is a psychologist, like Vox, I'm rooting for him.
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...
Not in this case. What you're forgetting is this: if you go back and reread what I said, you'll see that the reason I know his motives are what they are is because his observations are so blatantly false. What he's saying is so ridiculous that even he couldn't honestly believe it. That means he's lying to you, most likely for the reasons stated.

quote:
Incidentally that was HIS analogy I used.. He said "Once I finish a thanksgiving meal I don't need to look at pics of food" to make his point clear.. that resonated with me and was sound...
No one "needs" to look at anything, before OR after enjoying the real thing. It doesn't mean someone WOULDN'T do it anyway.

quote:
Your counterpoint is simply he is using game... and that men MUST ogle women..
No, my counterpoint is that what he's saying is so obviously false that he must be saying it in the nature of laying game on you. And your second part -- "that men MUST ogle women" -- is not something I said.

quote:
Incidentally I would find more disingenuous your supposed concern for whether or not some brother may or may not have ill intent than your desire to simply throw up a red herring to avoid addressing points that would cause self reflection...
But the points are obviously false, and because they are so obvious coming from a guy who, as WIZ would say, is just "flinging woo" (LOL), your friend's comments are far beneath the dignity of substantive discussion.

They are also beneath the dignity of your consideration... this is from someone who believes that you do still possess a shred of intellectual dignity, buried under all of that gullible, ideological muck.
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... 19 ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in? Confused


If he were a psychologist worth his weight, he'd probably say that this woman was using this topic to 1. mask another issue which she's *really* angry about and 2. project her own complete lack of internet boundaries onto others.

So...

That she was once the "belle of the ball" with regard to engaging in flirtatious net-play with multiple men in a particular net-community, feels like she lost the status, and is now spitting nails about it. [Btw, this behavior has been explained to me by multiple posters...]

And that she, of all people to promote a need for net-boundaries, initiates the most personally revealing set of conversations ever to hit the net - completely blurring the demarcation between real life interactions and bytes coming through a PC screen, all the while "outing" the confidences of multiple people without their prior permission in doing so.

If the "friend" is a psychologist, like Vox, I'm rooting for him.


What if all of that were true about this woman?

Would you still support men sexually objectifying women in private?

Also, I'm curious.. would YOU consider having the attention of the men ON THIS BOARD a good thing? (see my bottom feeding comment) ..

By the way: If a woman is going around the board hurt over her lost status maybe you could give her a few pointers about how to flirt.. to regain the attention of the dysfunctional men you think are worth coveting... *sigh*

and I would encourage you to cease engaging in hearsay (aren't you a scientist?) and receive primary source information unfiltered through any bias...
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...
Not in this case. What you're forgetting is this: if you go back and reread what I said, you'll see that the reason I know his motives are what they are is because his observations are so blatantly false. What he's saying is so ridiculous that even he couldn't honestly believe it. That means he's lying to you, most likely for the reasons stated.

quote:
Incidentally that was HIS analogy I used.. He said "Once I finish a thanksgiving meal I don't need to look at pics of food" to make his point clear.. that resonated with me and was sound...
No one "needs" to look at anything, before OR after enjoying the real thing. It doesn't mean someone WOULDN'T do it anyway.

quote:
Your counterpoint is simply he is using game... and that men MUST ogle women..
No, my counterpoint is that what he's saying is so obviously false that he must be saying it in the nature of laying game on you. And your second part -- "that men MUST ogle women" -- is not something I said.

quote:
Incidentally I would find more disingenuous your supposed concern for whether or not some brother may or may not have ill intent than your desire to simply throw up a red herring to avoid addressing points that would cause self reflection...
But the points are obviously false, and because they are so obvious coming from a guy who, as WIZ would say, is just "flinging woo" (LOL), your friend's comments are far beneath the dignity of substantive discussion.

They are also beneath the dignity of your consideration... this is from someone who believes that you do still possess a shred of intellectual dignity, buried under all of that gullible, ideological muck.


Vox, this discussion is turning into the motives of some guy regarding "getting with me"..

if I'd known just quoting his comments with skew the point of the dialogue I wouldn't have used them... I asked his opinion because I wanted the opinion of a male removed from this environment..

can you speak to the logic of his position..

1. Real men can be satiated with a real woman and have no need to sexually objectify women

2. Real men don't waste a lot of time on the boards objectifying women deeming it the work of juveniles..

You keep addressing whether or not he's trying to get with me...

okay let's say he's saying it all from a standpoint of lying...

does that make the POINT less true..

and if it does would you then be telling me:

1. Men are incapable of entering a real relationship with a woman outside of sexual objectification..

2. When men talk they MUST spend time sexually objectifying women?
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...
Not in this case. What you're forgetting is this: if you go back and reread what I said, you'll see that the reason I know his motives are what they are is because his observations are so blatantly false. What he's saying is so ridiculous that even he couldn't honestly believe it. That means he's lying to you, most likely for the reasons stated.


I'm not taking sides in this exchange.

However .... I don't find the brother's observations (the few I've read) to be "blatantly false"... although they might be idiosyncratic.

Speaking for myself, I find that when I'm happy in a relationship I don't, in fact, need to look at pictures of other women. Maybe that's just me.

Secondly, when I'm in group of men where the talk centers about this or that woman ... yada yada yada ... I might enjoy it in the beginning ... but I quickly get bored. Maybe that's just me.

Lastly, to be perfectly honest, I find it odd that we're talking about personal space in one forum on one message board to loook at pictures. There are, after all, millions of places on the net where one can look at pictures until one's heart is content ... and do so without ruffling anyone's feathers (whether they're justified in being ruffled or not)... and not be bothered while you're looking at said pictures.

I think one can coherently question whether a message board is a place for such activity anyay. There are any number of activities that I can see myself engaging in which I would not dream of posting on a message board.

Just my two cents.
So far this is what I've gathered:

This is all becoming quite sad (reminiscent of the abuse thread)

My Point:

Men should not sexually objectify women, it's degrading to women... and when done in a manner that dominates male conversation should be held as unacceptable among those who consider themselves "Intelligent"


Counterpoints presented to me:

1. Sexually objectifying women is a part of a man's nature
2. Stop looking at men sexually objectify women, it's rude..
3. You just mad cause the men you claim are sexually objectifying women are not sexually objecitfying you and want your "status" back..
4. If a guy agrees and tells you that women should not be sexually objectified then he is running game
5. I don't sexually objectify women, but I think men should have the right to sexually objectify women in private..


I guess I was thinking something along the lines of

1. Defining sexual objectification
2. Differentiating between sexual objectification and appreciation
3. Truthful admittance that the DEN doesn't have ONE thread sexually objectifying women but is DOMINATED by it
4. Or at least a reasonable answer why society benefits or should see sexual objectification as a good thing...
If we are bottom feeders so unworthy of (your) attention, why are you still investing so much time "communicating" with us Khalliqa? You really need to work on your perverting, converting the heathens technique. You are actually losing support with every additional post you make.

This thread was never about just protecting the right to post pictures. It is primarily about men being able to discuss issues without interference from women. You say you want strong men that can council each other. How can that happen if you can't even restrain yourself online from butting into men's conversations?

Go back to the self-imposed ban on posting in The Den that you have failed to maintain multiple times. Here's to hoping you can finally kick the habit this time!

beer
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also, I'm curious.. would YOU consider having the attention of the men ON THIS BOARD a good thing? (see my bottom feeding comment) ..


No. I come here strictly for entertainment. Not personal validation of my ability to engage men. To think the internet could provide me otherwise would be a bit "unbalanced", imo...


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
By the way: If a woman is going around the board hurt over her lost status maybe you could give her a few pointers about how to flirt.. to regain the attention of the dysfunctional men you think are worth coveting...


I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other. That's it, Khalliqa. To make it more than that and to get emotionally derailed about that or perceived loss of "status" is a pathology.

quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
and I would encourage you to cease engaging in hearsay (aren't you a scientist?) and receive primary source information unfiltered through any bias...


I am looking at primary sources, as well. There is a search engine here... and I stand by what I observe. You're bright, but you've lived in this place like it's your real life.

That can't be healthy.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

I'm not taking sides in this exchange. However .... I don't find the brother's observations (the few I've read) to be "blatantly false"... although they might be idiosyncratic. Speaking for myself, I find that when I'm happy in a relationship I don't, in fact, need to look at pictures of other women. Maybe that's just me.
Well from the sound of that, the reason you don't find his comments blatantly false is that you're reverse-implying that, when you're not "happy in a relationship," you believe you do "need" to look at pictures of other women. For those of us who don't believe it's EVER a need, the dichotomy this friend of Khalliqa's has set up -- need when no access to the real/no need when has access to the real -- is completely ridiculous.

Now, where you and this guy depart is that he then builds on this phony dichotomy and goes on to value judge "real men" from "non real men," which is where it becomes clear that this guy knows he's running bullshit on Khalliqa.

quote:
Lastly, to be perfectly honest, I find it odd that we're talking about personal space in one forum on one message board to loook at pictures. There are, after all, millions of places on the net where one can look at pictures until one's heart is content ... and do so without ruffling anyone's feathers (whether they're justified in being ruffled or not)... and not be bothered while you're looking at said pictures.
There are also magazines, DVDs, and other offline media. But Khalliqa's friend's comments easily apply to all of that stuff too.
quote:

Now, where you and this guy depart is that he then builds on this phony dichotomy and goes on to value judge "real men" from "non real men," which is where it becomes clear that this guy knows he's running bullshit on Khalliqa.


Both you and I may disagree with his value judgement ... but it is not obvious to me that he is being disingenuous.

As I said, it is possible that his views are idiosyncratic.
quote:

I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other.


On or offline ... we're all pixels on a screen anyway ...

You're only photons to my sensory aparatus. lol

Pleasing photons ... but photons nevertheless ...

(HB departing this discussion)
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Both you and I may disagree with his value judgement ... but it is not obvious to me that he is being disingenuous.

As I said, it is possible that his views are idiosyncratic.
Nah, this is one of those things which, in the words of Justice Stewart, "I know it when I see it." Not the most sound piece of citable jurisprudence, but nevertheless a time-proven, urban-cultivated way to see through obvious bullshit.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:

I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other.


On or offline ... we're all pixels on a screen anyway ...

You're only photons to my sensory aparatus.

Pleasing photons ... but photons nevertheless



lol Touche. And very true...
quote:
Originally posted by shulamite:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also, I'm curious.. would YOU consider having the attention of the men ON THIS BOARD a good thing? (see my bottom feeding comment) ..


No. I come here strictly for entertainment. Not personal validation of my ability to engage men. To think the internet could provide me otherwise would be a bit "unbalanced", imo...


quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
By the way: If a woman is going around the board hurt over her lost status maybe you could give her a few pointers about how to flirt.. to regain the attention of the dysfunctional men you think are worth coveting...


I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other. That's it, Khalliqa. To make it more than that and to get emotionally derailed about that or perceived loss of "status" is a pathology.

quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
and I would encourage you to cease engaging in hearsay (aren't you a scientist?) and receive primary source information unfiltered through any bias...


I am looking at primary sources, as well. There is a search engine here... and I stand by what I observe. You're bright, but you've lived in this place like it's your real life.

That can't be healthy.


(smile)

Shulamite:

You may want to add an answer to the initial question regarding your avoidance of defining sexual objectification ... so you seem a bit more genuine..

otherwise you'll reach your goal in no time...
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
If we are bottom feeders so unworthy of (your) attention, why are you still investing so much time "communicating" with us Khalliqa? You really need to work on your perverting, converting the heathens technique. You are actually losing support with every additional post you make.

This thread was never about just protecting the right to post pictures. It is primarily about men being able to discuss issues without interference from women. You say you want strong men that can council each other. How can that happen if you can't even restrain yourself online from butting into men's conversations?

Go back to the self-imposed ban on posting in The Den that you have failed to maintain multiple times. Here's to hoping you can finally kick the habit this time!

beer


oh good lord D.. you're still following me around with snide comments...????
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Both you and I may disagree with his value judgement ... but it is not obvious to me that he is being disingenuous.

As I said, it is possible that his views are idiosyncratic.
Nah, this is one of those things which, in the words of Justice Stewart, "I know it when I see it." Not the most sound piece of citable jurisprudence, but nevertheless a time-proven, urban-cultivated way to see through obvious bullshit.


But Vox,

You still haven't answered the POINT..

why is what some dude trying to do relevant???


see below:
--------------------------------
My Point:

Men should not sexually objectify women, it's degrading to women... and when done in a manner that dominates male conversation should be held as unacceptable among those who consider themselves "Intelligent"


Counterpoints presented to me:

1. Sexually objectifying women is a part of a man's nature
2. Stop looking at men sexually objectify women, it's rude..
3. You just mad cause the men you claim are sexually objectifying women are not sexually objecitfying you and want your "status" back..
4. If a guy agrees and tells you that women should not be sexually objectified then he is running game
5. I don't sexually objectify women, but I think men should have the right to sexually objectify women in private..


I guess I was thinking something along the lines of

1. Defining sexual objectification
2. Differentiating between sexual objectification and appreciation
3. Truthful admittance that the DEN doesn't have ONE thread sexually objectifying women but is DOMINATED by it
4. Or at least a reasonable answer why society benefits or should see sexual objectification as a good thing...
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
You may want to add an answer to the initial question regarding your avoidance of defining sexual objectification.


Why? What men do on a message board doesn't matter to me. There are millions of us online everyday doing a million different things. As long as it isn't breaking the law, I don't particularly care.

If it offends me, I don't read it.

---
With that said, I'm sorry for engaging you here so negatively (I really don't like snark, from others or from myself). But it bothers me that you'd accuse EbonyRose of doing exactly what you do/have done. I don't care for faux moral hypocrisy and that's how your posts (in this thread) have struck me. So that's why I got involved.

quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
otherwise you'll reach your goal in no time...


I honestly have no idea of what you're talking about. What goal?

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