The Masculine Nature

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
Now if Khalliqa had found a way to actually get her comments superimposed OVER the pix, THEN we'd need to take action!!

shulamite, now figuring out how to superimpose commentary over pics just to see what happens

quote:

@ VOX and RB

You know ... what you both have said has been very ... oh, let's call it ... enlightening! And colorful. Eek

But .. let's face it, what y'all are talkin' about is some Disney World/Fantasyland, make-it-up-as-you-go-along, not remotely based in anything near reality, possibly delusional thinking! Eek

Because there are some people who are absolutely NOT going to (or more accurately, probably just CAN'T do it) ditch their immaturity and become conscientious and respect what to the rest of us are clear boundaries .. overnight!!

It's just not going to happen ... and the very reason that we're having this conversation RIGHT NOW should be (more than obvious) proof of that.

It is just totally and completely unrealistic to think that threads in both The Sisters Spot and here in The Den will NOT be hijacked by certain members of the opposite sex as long as the opportunity to do so is available! And it's also a trip through Wonderland to believe that once the offense has taken place, that that disruption will be ignored! The offender WILL get their 15 minutes of negative attention. And everybody else will be made miserable ... except them! sck

That is just the way that is .. and has always been. And to think that you can continue to do the same thing and expect a different result is ... well ... need I go on?

So rather than deal with what are essentially fantasies of the way things should or could be (but clearly are not ... and with no real possibility or indication that they ever will be), how about dealing with the reality of the situation as it really is.

The only way to ensure that The Den is reserved for male conversations and the same with The Sister's Spot for us women is to lock the other gender out from intrusion. And, as I said before, there are other areas of the board to have all the all-inclusive conversations you want.

So, either you want a place you can call your own ... or you don't. But you certainly won't have it by simply thinking that that's the way it ought to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Khaligula:

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least..

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
A male friend made a comment to me today regarding insight into masculine nature the likes of which have been defined and represented on this thread...

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least.. He didn't try to justify such behavior as a man's right..

He also pointed out that though men enjoy the female form.. most men would prefer to have a complete human being and not just the form detached from the warmth of the woman... Women who display themselves as such are not compared to women who supply the man with comforts that extend past her a** and t**ts.. the former being dehumanized.. the latter being honored and appreciated.....

He told me that men in real life also don't have time to post pics (or anything else) on message boards.. period.. they are too busy living and not talking about living...

I would think some of the ladies here would do a greater service to their brethren than supporting and encouraging them to revel in their dysfunction at the expense of a woman's humanity.. I know some of the women desperately need male attention.. and feed off of it..

When men define themselves through their lower nature...supporting this need to exploit women as somehow enlightening is a serious self delusion and terrible sacrifice in exchange to being accepted among those who revel in the exploitation of women..

Please know that if a female goes around riding the jock of men who enjoy participating in dysfunctional behavior, of course she will get the positive response she desires.. However, I would hope that in the future such a woman would use her intelligence not to bottom feed.. but rise above such low standards..

You know there are men out there that like to involve themselves in real relationships with women... and are too busy to entertain anything otherwise...

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:

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Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
You do realize there is a difference between sexual objectification and appreciation right?

Of course which is why I shared the fact that I like looking at beautiful women to...however personally I prefer discretion and not just seeing women gyrating around which has become all to prevalent in this "video vixen" age which for the most part is objectifying women. To appreciate women you have to always be mindful that no matter how physically pleasing to the eye she is...she is a human being with an intellect, emotions and a soul... to the extent that some men lose sight of this allowing themselves to be blinded only by her physical is where part of the problem lies.

Ummm but I've been here for almost four years now and those who are truthful and have been here longer can attest that the den has RARELY been a place where women are respected..or any measure of enlightening conversation has taken place... The predominate threads (especially those popular threads completely removed from the Den and sent to the Big House! ) are about porn and how to pimp women..

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So if the men are fighting for their right of privacy what they are fighting for is their right to privately objectify women.. because all they have displayed when left to their own conversations is the overwhelming ability to degrade women....

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also I used to not post in the Den at all until dudes started rolling up in Sistas Spot disrespecting all of us..

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
interesting none of the manly women objectifying males in this section said anything then... nor their male attention starved female cronies.. lol...

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
The retaliatory arguments in this thread are simply about the right to see porn and pimp articles,( calling this "manhood"), and requiring that no one take offense and say something about it...

and just like any strip club.. the females that are down with porn and pimps support their efforts...

quote:

Originally posted by Kocolicious:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter

quote:

For starters lets get something straight I'm addressing this from a completely honest and purely MASCULINE perspective...So I know I may say some things that from a womens perspective she may not be able to fully relate to... Anyway just accept what I'm saying in the spirit in which it's given which is only to inform. There are some fundamental things about Men that women need to understand... one being that we are VISUAL when it comes to sexuality and what that means. This is not about choice with regard to what we are stimulated by it is purely PYSIOLOGICAL ...when a man see's an attractive women actual bio chemical processes are triggered this is NATURAL. This is the driving force which motivates Men to even pursue women in the first place which consequently keeps the human race going...it's just as natural as the womans desire and drive to give birth. Women can no more understand this aspect of men as men can understand why women would seek to be impregnated carry a child for nine months and then have it pulled from her body...in some cases multiple times. To the Masculine mind the idea of this type of thing happening to our bodies is Abhorrent...we are just not wired for such a thing. Now I'm not talking about effeminate punk men who want to be women their damn self ...I'm talking about REAL TESTOSTERONE DRIVEN MEN like myself.

I appreciate your perspective Brotha LD. Always have. You continue to demonstrate your graciousness and respect for us womenfolk here on this board...time after time after time. I have noticed that regardless of the rage of debate between you and any woman poster, you STILL remain a gentlemen. As a mother of boys, I can tell that you are the protector in your family of womenfolk and appreciate the qualities women bring to the world. I can also tell that you don't play when it comes to the females in your family...I sense you are a Man's Man....this strength and chivalry unfolds perfectly here in such dignified elegance. That's a rarity to behold. Inexperienced "Boys" don't know what this is or what it means....but! A woman does.

Brotha LD, I totally get the visual part. I know most MEN are visual. And you're right it has something to do with the fact that women give birth and is WHY we are not so much directly in the visual side of men's persona as we are drawn to their character, intelllect and integrity. And the state of external beauty almost ALWAYS transforms sometimes in a form of oblivious and we women understand that dynamics....probably more than most men do. That doesn't mean that we don't look at men in a stimulating way...it's just different....but! We do LOOK and sometimes touch. But what most women are after....women-not whores/hoodrats or what we are interested in is what's going on inside of a man's heart/mind ...but! That's a scarry statement for the immature.

quote:

Of course which is why I shared the fact that I like looking at beautiful women to...however personally I prefer discretion and not just seeing women gyrating around which has become all to prevalent in this "video vixen" age which for the most part is objectifying women. To appreciate women you have to always be mindful that no matter how physically pleasing to the eye she is...she is a human being with an intellect, emotions and a soul... to the extent that some men lose sight of this allowing themselves to be blinded only by her physical is where part of the problem lies.

That's what I'm talking about my brotha! Having said that, some us women here on this board have grown accustom to the total impertinence some of these so-called "men" have in regards to us. We have to put on our gun holsters and be ready for battle when coming on this board-well at least I do. This is mainly because some men have come in our sista spot and spew absurdities to us when we were discussing issues close and dear to our souls....some times they try to either sabbotage the post itself or minimize the topic in a desperate effort to make a mockery out of our perspective. Yet on the other hand these SAME boys [they are not men to me] will exhibit their scum behavior during their observation of women in the Den-be it photo or discussion. When we defend our own honor, we are viciously attacked and debased and humiliated as if they [these men-oops I mean boys] do not have MOTHERS, or sisters or wives. It is as if they are harboring some sort of secret fury and resentment toward us..and are awaiting/itching at bay to lash out their personal "private hatred" on us in this very PUBLIC forum.

I am rarely in the den...no interest However, I simply cannot allow "weak" men to say hurtful and disrespectful things about us when they know DAYUM well what they project is out of unsubstantial rage and stupidity i.e. the buck mentality. More importantly, I have sons...and if I ever heard one of them saying the disgusting things I hear from these lunatics here on this board about Black women...it will be more than SOAP in their mouths….and they know it. Under no circumstances will I tolerant it-I can't....it's just not in me. So I guess it's war when they start debasing, dehumanizing and "spewing" the unmentionable toward black women or children-merely for entertainment/sick amusement purposes-not on my watch! Black women and children have suffered enough in this country. And it's not over, I have to fight MASSA everyday to ensure that our youth receive what is rightful theirs-I am well prepared to fight weak little black boys who have the gawl to call themselves ""black" men. I raised boys to men. I know what it takes. These little younguns here on this board are NOT even close to having the goods....to be men.....nawl! Not even close. Cuz why? It's clear they have NOT been taught any better but most importantly: There. Is. No. Black. Unity. IN. THEIR. VEINS. They don't know what that is. You can easily tell by their disrespectful actions to the us-the women who represent the mothers who gave them LIFE. How arrogant is that?

BTW: I understand sexuality. It's a beautiful thing. But there's a place and time for everything. And you still can enjoy it while exercising "good" taste and being respectful. It's when it turns UGLY..then it's on. And I agree......it should be a locked site for both men and women...where one cannot enter unless invited......but! JMHO....is all.

quote:

Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
At any rate, I understand the need that both Men and Women have to bond among their peers and who are we to judge how the opposite sex chooses to do it? I say live and let live I accept the way things are NATURALLY which is why I chose this as a quote..."It is irrational to want that which is not God's will, so attune thyself with thy inner Nature and live happily."

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Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

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Originally posted by Vox:

Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

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Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

Instead of being all hurt and taking this personally... don't you think he has a point though? Don't you think that enjoying the company of a real woman in a real relationship, would be a lot better than fantasizing over a photo? There has to be a better a way for men to enjoy the beauty of black women instead of posting them naked...

quote:

Originally posted by Kweli4Real:

quote:

Khalliqa, your "friend" is running game on you, sweetheart.

Here's Kweli4Real sincerely hoping Ms. K. seriously considers VOX's comment ... all but the part apart rooting for the guy spitting lines and running the game.

quote:

Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So basically you are against objectifying our women. But your approval of pictures of objectifying women in private leaves me confused.. what other negative and destructive behaviors would you condone simply because they are done privately?

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Originally posted by Vox:
The two are not mutually exclusive, Khalliqa. Your friend has fed you the idea that a man either is in a relationship OR looks at pictures.

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Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

quote:

Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

I just think that we as men (specifically black men) need to always be mindful of the history in this country of black women being subjugated as nothing but sexual objects by YT...we should not turn around and do the same thing to our own women. I love seeing beautiful black women and that won't change...However, I never lose knowledge of the fact that she is a human being and not simply a piece of meat to feed my carnal desires. I think that there is nothing wrong with men on this site coming together in mutual appreciation of the female form...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
So basically you are against objectifying our women. But your approval of pictures of objectifying women in private leaves me confused.. what other negative and destructive behaviors would you condone simply because they are done privately?

.I don't find it "objectifying" simply by virtue of the fact someone is posting pictures...nor do I find it intrinsically "negative and destructive behavior". [/b]

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in?

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in?

quote:

He commented to me that it sounded like a bunch of dysfunctional men as men who are actually getting real female attention don't have time to salivate over "pictures" of women on a website.. giving each other high fives for photos they found on the internet... He thought this sounded very much like what adolescent boys do... I found his remarks very interesting to say the least.. He didn't try to justify such behavior as a man's right..

He also pointed out that though men enjoy the female form.. most men would prefer to have a complete human being and not just the form detached from the warmth of the woman... Women who display themselves as such are not compared to women who supply the man with comforts that extend past her a** and t**ts.. the former being dehumanized.. the latter being honored and appreciated.....

He told me that men in real life also don't have time to post pics (or anything else) on message boards.. period.. they are too busy living and not talking about living...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
The two are not mutually exclusive, Khalliqa. Your friend has fed you the idea that a man either is in a relationship OR looks at pictures.

Hmmm..

From him I learn that a real man can be satisfied with a relationship with a woman and a productive career and that his lusts will be served in the context of a healthy relationship...

From you I learn that a man is never satisfied with a real woman and must ogle pics of naked women so that he can stimulate his lusts through imagination...

Wow Vox.. I used to think men were capable of thinking of women outside of sexuallly objectifying them.... but you're saying that men have no such ability...

or maybe it's just that "some" men have no such ability...

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in?

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...

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Incidentally that was HIS analogy I used.. He said "Once I finish a thanksgiving meal I don't need to look at pics of food" to make his point clear.. that resonated with me and was sound...

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Your counterpoint is simply he is using game... and that men MUST ogle women..

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Incidentally I would find more disingenuous your supposed concern for whether or not some brother may or may not have ill intent than your desire to simply throw up a red herring to avoid addressing points that would cause self reflection...

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Originally posted by shulamite:

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Hmmmmm .... ...... I wonder what that *friend* would say about a woman who went to a website and posted in a place specifically dedicated to men ... to give her unasked for, unwanted, unwarranted, unqualified and unappreciated opinion about how men should relate to women ..... while claiming not to want uninvited attention from men she has no interest in?

If he were a psychologist worth his weight, he'd probably say that this woman was using this topic to 1. mask another issue which she's *really* angry about and 2. project her own complete lack of internet boundaries onto others.

So...

That she was once the "belle of the ball" with regard to engaging in flirtatious net-play with multiple men in a particular net-community, feels like she lost the status, and is now spitting nails about it. [Btw, this behavior has been explained to me by multiple posters...]

And that she, of all people to promote a need for net-boundaries, initiates the most personally revealing set of conversations ever to hit the net - completely blurring the demarcation between real life interactions and bytes coming through a PC screen, all the while "outing" the confidences of multiple people without their prior permission in doing so.

If the "friend" is a psychologist, like Vox, I'm rooting for him.

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Originally posted by Vox:

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...

Not in this case. What you're forgetting is this: if you go back and reread what I said, you'll see that the reason I know his motives are what they are is because his observations are so blatantly false. What he's saying is so ridiculous that even he couldn't honestly believe it. That means he's lying to you, most likely for the reasons stated.

quote:

Incidentally that was HIS analogy I used.. He said "Once I finish a thanksgiving meal I don't need to look at pics of food" to make his point clear.. that resonated with me and was sound...

No one "needs" to look at anything, before OR after enjoying the real thing. It doesn't mean someone WOULDN'T do it anyway.

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Your counterpoint is simply he is using game... and that men MUST ogle women..

No, my counterpoint is that what he's saying is so obviously false that he must be saying it in the nature of laying game on you. And your second part -- "that men MUST ogle women" -- is not something I said.

quote:

Incidentally I would find more disingenuous your supposed concern for whether or not some brother may or may not have ill intent than your desire to simply throw up a red herring to avoid addressing points that would cause self reflection...

But the points are obviously false, and because they are so obvious coming from a guy who, as WIZ would say, is just "flinging woo" (LOL), your friend's comments are far beneath the dignity of substantive discussion.

They are also beneath the dignity of your consideration... this is from someone who believes that you do still possess a shred of intellectual dignity, buried under all of that gullible, ideological muck.

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
In this case, the motives of the brother who may or may not have an interest or motive is a separate issue from whether or not his observations of men on this board are true...

Not in this case. What you're forgetting is this: if you go back and reread what I said, you'll see that the reason I know his motives are what they are is because his observations are so blatantly false. What he's saying is so ridiculous that even he couldn't honestly believe it. That means he's lying to you, most likely for the reasons stated.

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also, I'm curious.. would YOU consider having the attention of the men ON THIS BOARD a good thing? (see my bottom feeding comment) ..

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
By the way: If a woman is going around the board hurt over her lost status maybe you could give her a few pointers about how to flirt.. to regain the attention of the dysfunctional men you think are worth coveting...

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
and I would encourage you to cease engaging in hearsay (aren't you a scientist?) and receive primary source information unfiltered through any bias...

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:

I'm not taking sides in this exchange. However .... I don't find the brother's observations (the few I've read) to be "blatantly false"... although they might be idiosyncratic. Speaking for myself, I find that when I'm happy in a relationship I don't, in fact, need to look at pictures of other women. Maybe that's just me.

quote:

Lastly, to be perfectly honest, I find it odd that we're talking about personal space in one forum on one message board to loook at pictures. There are, after all, millions of places on the net where one can look at pictures until one's heart is content ... and do so without ruffling anyone's feathers (whether they're justified in being ruffled or not)... and not be bothered while you're looking at said pictures.

quote:

Now, where you and this guy depart is that he then builds on this phony dichotomy and goes on to value judge "real men" from "non real men," which is where it becomes clear that this guy knows he's running bullshit on Khalliqa.

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I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other.

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Both you and I may disagree with his value judgement ... but it is not obvious to me that he is being disingenuous.

As I said, it is possible that his views are idiosyncratic.

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Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other.

On or offline ... we're all pixels on a screen anyway ...

You're only photons to my sensory aparatus.

Pleasing photons ... but photons nevertheless

quote:

Originally posted by shulamite:

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Also, I'm curious.. would YOU consider having the attention of the men ON THIS BOARD a good thing? (see my bottom feeding comment) ..

No. I come here strictly for entertainment. Not personal validation of my ability to engage men. To think the internet could provide me otherwise would be a bit "unbalanced", imo...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
By the way: If a woman is going around the board hurt over her lost status maybe you could give her a few pointers about how to flirt.. to regain the attention of the dysfunctional men you think are worth coveting...

I wouldn't give her "a few pointers about how to flirt" but I would advise her in the humblest way I know how to get a life. We are all nothing but pixels on a screen to each other. That's it, Khalliqa. To make it more than that and to get emotionally derailed about that or perceived loss of "status" is a pathology.

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
and I would encourage you to cease engaging in hearsay (aren't you a scientist?) and receive primary source information unfiltered through any bias...

I am looking at primary sources, as well. There is a search engine here... and I stand by what I observe. You're bright, but you've lived in this place like it's your real life.

That can't be healthy.

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Originally posted by ddouble:
If we are bottom feeders so unworthy of (your) attention, why are you still investing so much time "communicating" with us Khalliqa? You really need to work on your perverting, converting the heathens technique. You are actually losing support with every additional post you make.

This thread was never about just protecting the right to post pictures. It is primarily about men being able to discuss issues without interference from women. You say you want strong men that can council each other. How can that happen if you can't even restrain yourself online from butting into men's conversations?

Go back to the self-imposed ban on posting in The Den that you have failed to maintain multiple times. Here's to hoping you can finally kick the habit this time!

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Both you and I may disagree with his value judgement ... but it is not obvious to me that he is being disingenuous.

As I said, it is possible that his views are idiosyncratic.

Nah, this is one of those things which, in the words of Justice Stewart, "I know it when I see it." Not the most sound piece of citable jurisprudence, but nevertheless a time-proven, urban-cultivated way to see through obvious bullshit.

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
You may want to add an answer to the initial question regarding your avoidance of defining sexual objectification.

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Originally posted by Khalliqa:
otherwise you'll reach your goal in no time...