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...The liberals being Caucasian, Coloreds, Well to do Blacks, and/or others, would prefer to hide this reality so that all the blame for this activity can be directed at racist Southern Conservative Caucasians, and the like.......

....the reality being slim chance that any reparations will be paid for slavery, unless all the various factions take responsibility for their part in the enslavement of Black people.....


.....to which I include the enslavement of truly innocent Black people through:

A. Unearned penal incarceration.

B. Truly unearned fines, or confiscation of assets.

C. Unearned penal incarceration and fines.

D. Unearned 187 penal code, life sentence, and/or the death penalty convictions.

E. The unwarranted destruction of law abiding Black families for profit.

F. Unearned and forced to pay in time and personal assets for their own destruction or demise, through the inclusion of stiff penalties for not attending, unwarranted, or unearned anger management classes, forced upon the truly innocent, through and by the disgraceful unlawful actions of agents and officials of government.

G. Unearned misdemeanor and felonious convictions.

H. Many times the truly criminal are set free, as it relates to hard core criminals, and fraudulent individuals, all while the truly innocent have the "Book" in criminal offenses, and/or civil persecution thrown their direction.

I. Should you petition your own elected officicals, in a Merv Dymally, a Brentwood Burke, a Kevin Murray, a Nate Holden, a Diane Watson, a Kerosene Waters, etc., etc., for redress for the wrongs of government seriously gone awry in the inner-city, these individuals play games, side with the perpetrators, may summons policing authorities to arrest you, trash your petition for redress, etc., etc.

J. To which A through I, make the Black community worse than slavery, very dangerous, the flipside of what life is supposed to be like within the U.S., a disgraceful community, a community led by misfits and traitors, a community that makes heroes of misfits and traitors, conditions that can't help but maintain poverty and blight in the Black community. This again amounts to 21st Century Slavery, and set of conditions far worse than slavery of 1865.

......this continued violation of the U.S. citizenship rights of Black people, amounts to 21st century slavery, meaning unending slavery that is designed to use innocent Black people, and/or their children to keep liberal Caucasians, unethical judges, overzealous city prosecutors, refusing to bite the hand that feeds them no good public defenders, rogue police officers, the co-conspirators of the so-called Black middleclass, and/or other co-conspirators or perpetrators gainfully employed, and/or using the ignorance of naive jurors to hang truly innocent Black.........

........the perpetrators and co-conspirators being gainfully employed as a result of the illegal and unwarranted transgressions of agents and officials of government, composed of liberal Caucasians, Caucasian Biggots, Hispanic Biggots, and Black Biggots, misguided Black people, and/or other co-conspirators who promote the enslavement of Black people in contemporary times.

_____________________________________________________

THE NATION
Reminding New York of Its Hidden History

The city was a capital for slavery -- and it embraced it in an almost casual manner.

By Robert Lee Hotz, Times Staff Writer

October 9, 2005

NEW YORK "” Her name was Violet. She was 15 years old. And on Jan. 8, 1781, a Manhattan butcher named Robert Heaton sold her to the highest bidder for 56 British pounds.

What shocked historian Richard Rabinowitz was not the price that Violet fetched "” about $6,000 in today's currency "” but that her sale at a city slave auction had been recorded on a preprinted form. So common was slavery in 18th century New York City, where almost half the households owned African slaves, that standardized paperwork for buying and selling people was the norm, like a boilerplate apartment lease or credit card slip.

"It changes the way you perceive New York," said Rabinowitz, president of the American History Workshop and curator of the ambitious new exhibition "Slavery in New York" that opened this weekend. "It is the bill of sale for a human being. It has meaning beyond the words on a page."

The exhibition, organized by the New York Historical Society, explores the city's hidden history of slavery through 9,000 square feet of artifacts ranging from Violet's bill of sale to the original rough draft "” in Abraham Lincoln's elegant scrawl "” of the Emancipation Proclamation.

The exhibition, which draws heavily on the historical society's archives, runs through March. It is the first in a series the society plans over the next two years to highlight the role of slaveholding in a city that for generations has prided itself as a stronghold of diversity, civil rights and, in its day, the abolitionist movement. Few New Yorkers are even aware that their city essentially was a capital of American slavery for 200 years, as the exhibition documents.

"Most people don't know it existed here," said the exhibition's chief historian, James O. Horton, professor of American studies and history at George Washington University. "I have people tell me they are shocked that slavery ever existed in New York."

The society's effort arises from a broad reassessment of how thoroughly slavery permeated American life when "” in what historians consider the largest forced migration in history "” 12 million Africans were kidnapped and transported across the Atlantic. In the centuries before 1800, more Africans came to America than Europeans.

"This is a very challenging part of our history," Rabinowitz said. "History is not about the past; it is about how the present makes sense of the past."

Slavery was not confined to the Southern United States, as generations of Northerners have been taught. Indeed, the "peculiar institution," as it was often called, was especially prevalent in New York City, where it was a matter of explicit colonial policy, far-ranging financial investment and personal practice.

As the exhibition reveals, New York from its founding was a city wholly dependent on African slavery. Slaves built the road to Harlem that would become Broadway, the palisades of Wall Street, the first City Hall, and the docks that would berth generations of immigrants to the New World.

New York was second only to Charleston, S.C., as an urban slaveholding center. In 1703, 42% of New York households owned slaves, compared with 6% of Philadelphia's and just 2% of Boston's.

In practice, slavery was no less brutal in the urban colony of New York than in the rural South. Abuse was common. The city's Common Council passed a series of laws to restrict the activities of black people, free or slave. They were forbidden to own property or gather in groups larger than three, and were required to carry lanterns after dark.

"There is a tendency to see slaves as simply victims," Horton said. "I don't believe any human being is simply a victim.

"They were people who devised ingenious ways of resisting, of sheltering themselves."

New York's first slave revolt took place in 1712. Many committed suicide rather than surrender. The survivors were hanged.

All told, the presence of slaves in the historical record is barely a shadow. Not a single image of a black New Yorker survives from the first 170 years that African slaves lived and worked in the city.

Much of the material on display illustrates the ambiguity of early American history.

One exhibit, for example, centers on a 1782 ledger called "The Book of Negros," which documented the names and owners of 3,000 slaves who chose the side of the British during the Revolutionary War. As loyalists under British rule, they were granted freedom and safe passage to Canada by British Gen. Guy Carleton when the war ended.

Among the names listed was Deborah Squash, a 20-year-old slave owned by Gen. George Washington. Determined to claim his property, Washington personally called on Carleton to demand her return "” only to discover that she had already fled to Canada.

"People in New York never think about it," said 10-year-old Emma O'Toole, who visited the exhibition Saturday. "They think New Yorkers are all heroes, but they had slavery too."

Slavery lingered in New York longer than in other Northern states. Vermont outlawed slavery in 1777, but not until 1827 was slavery eliminated in New York.

John Allen, who brought his 9-year-old son, Miles, to the exhibit, found it revealing.

"When I was a kid," Allen said, "they would talk about how Washington, D.C., was built by slaves. They didn't talk about New York."


Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times

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...The liberals being Caucasian, Coloreds, Well to do Blacks, and/or others, would prefer to hide this reality so that all the blame for this activity can be directed at racist Southern Conservative Caucasians, and the like.......

....the reality being slim chance that any reparations will be paid for slavery, unless all the various factions take responsibility for their part in the enslavement of Black people.....


.....to which I include the enslavement of truly innocent Black people through:

A. Unearned penal incarceration.

B. Truly unearned fines, or confiscation of assets.

C. Unearned penal incarceration and fines.

D. Unearned 187 penal code, life sentence, and/or the death penalty convictions.

E. The unwarranted destruction of law abiding Black families for profit.

F. Unearned and forced to pay in time and personal assets for their own destruction or demise, through the inclusion of stiff penalties for not attending, unwarranted, or unearned anger management classes, forced upon the truly innocent, through and by the disgraceful unlawful actions of agents and officials of government.

G. Unearned misdemeanor and felonious convictions.

H. Many times the truly criminal are set free, as it relates to hard core criminals, and fraudulent individuals, all while the truly innocent have the "Book" in criminal offenses, and/or civil persecution thrown their direction.

I. Should you petition your own elected officicals, in a Merv Dymally, a Brentwood Burke, a Kevin Murray, a Nate Holden, a Diane Watson, a Kerosene Waters, etc., etc., for redress for the wrongs of government seriously gone awry in the inner-city, these individuals play games, side with the perpetrators, may summons policing authorities to arrest you, trash your petition for redress, etc., etc.

J. To A through I, make the Black community worse than slavery, very dangerous, the flipside of what life is supposed to be like within the U.S., a disgraceful community, a community led by misfits and traitors, a community that make heroes of misfits and traitors, conditions that can't help but maintain poverty and blight in the Black community. This again amounts to 21st Century Slavery, a set of conditions far worse than slavery of 1865.

......this continued violation of the U.S. citizenship rights of Black people, amounts to 21st century slavery, meaning unending slavery that is designed to use innocent Black people, and/or their children to keep liberal Caucasians, unethical judges, overzealous city prosecutors, refusing to bite the hand that feeds them no good public defenders, rogue police officers, the co-conspirators of the so-called Black middleclass, and/or other co-conspirators or perpetrators gainfully employed, and/or using the ignorance of naive jurors to hang truly innocent Black.........

........the perpetrators and co-conspirators being gainfully employed as a result of the illegal and unwarranted transgressions of agents and officials of government, composed of liberal Caucasians, Caucasian Biggots, Hispanic Biggots, and Black Biggots, misguided Black people, and/or other co-conspirators who promote the enslavement of Black people in contemporary times.
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"Should you petition your own elected officicals, in a Merv Dymally, a Brentwood Burke, a Kevin Murray, a Nate Holden, a Diane Watson, a Kerosene Waters, etc., etc., for redress for the wrongs of government seriously gone awry in the inner-city, these individuals play games, side with the perpetrators, may summons policing authorities to arrest you, trash your petition for redress, etc., etc.

A through I, make the Black community worse than slavery, very dangerous, the flipside of what life is supposed to be like within the U.S., a disgraceful community, a community led by misfits and traitors, a community that make heroes of misfits and traitors, conditions that can't help but maintain poverty and blight in the Black community. This again amounts to 21st Century Slavery, a set of conditions far worse than slavery of 1865.

......this continued violation of the U.S. citizenship rights of Black people, amounts to 21st century slavery, meaning unending slavery that is designed to use innocent Black people, and/or their children to keep liberal Caucasians, unethical judges, overzealous city prosecutors, refusing to bite the hand that feeds them no good public defenders, rogue police officers, the co-conspirators of the so-called Black middleclass, and/or other co-conspirators or perpetrators gainfully employed, and/or using the ignorance of naive jurors to hang truly innocent Black.........

........the perpetrators and co-conspirators being gainfully employed as a result of the illegal and unwarranted transgressions of agents and officials of government, composed of liberal Caucasians, Caucasian Biggots, Hispanic Biggots, and Black Biggots, misguided Black people, and/or other co-conspirators who promote the enslavement of Black people in contemporary times."
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So what is your point??? You think ALL black people back then were good people? You think all those black slave-owners PROUDLY owned those slaves?

Did you ever stop to think that those black slave-owners did so because it was the ONLY way for them to make a living? Thus they were effectively forced into the business of slave trade? And even if they wern't forced, what other choices of careers could blacks enter and be prosperous without the white man coming in and taking all they owned?

Why do you post this and never post anything having to do with how racism effectivly keeps blacks in the U.S. from advancing socially and economically?

It seems like the only stiff you post is "self-hate-blame-our-problems-on-us" info.

Is this guy Mychal Massie your idol or something? I hope not because he is a straight up self-hating uncle tom and porch monkey.

I don't know man, maybe I am missing your point.
Slavery of the past must be considered in the context of the "Consumer Capitalist Co-Conspiracy" theory of TODAY.

Cotton was just one of the main products that were created from the labor of enslaved Africans. Much of this cotton was shipped to the North. The bales of cotton were sent to the ports in the South, usually Charleston SC. The cotton was loaded on to ships and then transported to warehouses in New York City, Boston and Philadelphia.

The cotton was then distributed to various retailers via wholesalers in the area. Much of the clothing and other fabric items that were DEMANDED in the North came from Southern slave cotton.

Now if you allow the NORTHERNERS to tell it - THEY NEVER LAID A HAND ON A SLAVE OR CAST A WHIP UPON THE BACKS OF A BLACK MAN. THEY WERE OPPOSED TO SLAVERY - again if you let them tell it.

This type of ABSTRACTION belittles the point that Africans were brought to these shores to perform a ROLE within the context of a SYSTEM. This SYSTEM needed agricultural goods. The state of technology at the time required a high rate of labor to grow these crops.

The economic realities at the time required a CHEAP LABOR FORCE to allow these products to be affordable. The enslaved Africans provided the key component to all of this. Our ancestors provided the cheap labor and they had no RIGHTS that a White man had so all of the violations of Labor Laws or basic Human Rights standards did not need to be respected.

If the North had been HONEST with itself and REFUSED to consumer products that it knew were obtained via gross violations in human rights - the warehouses would have been full of cotton that could not be sold, the loaded ships would have been turned away from their ports in the North, the ports in the South would come to a shutdown as their products were not moving.

With the supply chain destroyed the enslaved Africans would have been of no use to their White exploiters.

While this most likely would have lead to the expulsion of Blacks from this country it certainly would have been a better path of history for us to have taken as a people than the one that we were made to follow.


DON'T BE A CONSUMER CAPITALIST CO-CONSPIRATOR. ONCE YOU KNOW THE DETAILS OF THE EXPLOITS you have blood on your hands if you choose not to CHANGE your patterns of consumption.
Michael, Constructive Feedback - please demonstrate your claim that liberals suggested that they had no connection to the slave trade. Economics often trumps politics so it should be no suprise that some who might politically have been opposed to the institution, nevertheless were moved by economic incentives to participate.
quote:
please demonstrate your claim that liberals suggested that they had no connection to the slave trade.


This is a claim that I DID NOT MAKE.

It is true, however, that you'll find many a Black person today who will attempt to project "Slavery and Jim Crow" into the domain of "Conservatism" rather than realizing that we as Blacks have had problems with WHITE SUPREMACY and not just "Conservatism".

The White liberal who offers Black folks "Help" in exchange for our loyalty and promise of our continued subordinate orientation to him is expressing the same "White Supremacy" as the Whie Conservative that you speak of. All you have to do is to test the waters is to DEMAND Reparations from this White Liberal - telling him that HE IS A PART OF THIS SAME SYSTEM that has oppressed you for so many years. His actions have been to provide Blacks with CRUMBS and not to draw upon the system in an impactful manner to where the reparations include a PUNATIVE dollar amount. Thus you continue to be strung along.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:

Slavery was not about creating affordable products. It was about maximizing profit. It was all about greed. Period.


Please tell me how the two concepts are mutally exclusive?

The thought of paying a large group of White laborers and/or treating African laborers with the same respect in terms of wages, labor rights and human rights would no doubt have had an impact on the COSTs of the commodity farm products that were produced. These costs would have been passed through to the consumer.

I agree that greed also allowed them to have lower labor costs which maximized their profit as all states who produced farm products were not "Slave states" thus the Southern states had an advantage in using their means of production.
quote:
It is true, however, that you'll find many a Black person today who will attempt to project "Slavery and Jim Crow" into the domain of "Conservatism" rather than realizing that we as Blacks have had problems with WHITE SUPREMACY and not just "Conservatism".



former dixiecrats became right-wing southern republicans....conservatives....such as scalia who has stated the CRA of 64 was bad......I need to leave you porch monkey negroes along...I really do...and listen to the Colin Powells and Julian Bonds and f-k anyone else that is cooning for YT........i'll learn one day......
This same KNEEGROW who accepts the crumbs from Robert KKK Byrd is trying to hold someone of today accountable for their statements of the past.

I am quite sure that Scalia was speaking in purely legalistic terms and did not indicate that the benefits that were ultimately bestowed to Blacks were unjust.

Similar comments have been made about Brown V. Board.

The problem is that we had RACIST LEGISLATURES who were not operating in accord with the Constitutional protections that were to be afforded to all citizens. This required the court to "actively" produce societal change because of the intransigence of the legislative and executive branches of government.
In the NAACP's Congressional Report Card for the 108th Congress (spanning the 2003-2004 congressional session), Byrd was awarded with an approval rating of 100% for favoring the NAACP's position in all 33 bills presented to the United States Senate regarding issues of their concern. Only 16 other senators of the same session matched this approval rating. In June of 2005, Byrd proposed an additional $10 million in federal funding for the Martin Luther King memorial in Washington, DC, remarking that "With the passage of time, we have come to learn that his Dream was the American Dream, and few ever expressed it more eloquently."
quote:
please demonstrate your claim that liberals suggested that they had no connection to the slave trade.


****************************

Although this was not stated directly, it is implied in that article, in that all these years, be it liberals, Conservatives, Black slave owners, or otherwise, the North East region, particularly as it applies to the New York area, the liberal community, and/or others have chosen to paint the picture throughout the world that slavery was concentrated in the South, and not the North, and that liberals, nor Blacks owned slaves. The North East is a predominately liberal area, and New York has a constituency of a predominately liberal community even today!

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....and speaking of cooning/ "Uncle Toming", being inept, lacking backbone, agreeing through silence or tacit agreement with criminal activity on the part of rogue police officers....

.........what is wrong with our own Black police officers for not speaking up, or doing something to stop the illegal, unwarranted, and wrongful beating of innocent Black men by Caucasian police officers?

In both the Rodney King beating, and this most recent beating of Mr. Davis, the Black police officers stood quietly by the sidelines and watched both Rodney King, and Robert Davis, get the pulp beat out of them.


********************************

THE NATION
Man in Video Beating Baffled by Incident

Robert Davis says he was attacked after accusing a New Orleans police officer of rudeness.

By Sam Howe Verhovek, Times Staff Writer

October 12, 2005

NEW ORLEANS "” Robert Davis, a retired sixth-grade teacher at New Orleans' McDonogh Elementary School, had just finished a free meal of Salisbury steak, mixed vegetables and blueberry pie, served at the Doubletree Hotel here for people made homeless by Hurricane Katrina.

It was pleasant last Saturday night, he recalled, so he decided he would take an "evening constitutional" down Bourbon Street. His plan was to pick up a pack of Kool cigarettes and head back to the home of friends he was staying with here.

Davis, 64, never made it to the store. He did make it to national television, however, on the receiving end of what he called a "sucker punch" from a New Orleans police officer with whom he had exchanged harsh words.

"I did say he was very rude and unprofessional," Davis recalled Tuesday. "So then "” bam! He just smacks me upside the head, and then he throws me to the ground. One of them gets a knee into me. It was all really out of line."

Davis is at the center of a videotape played over and over on television news in recent days. In the tape Davis, who is black, is shown being beaten, kneed in the groin and finally slammed onto the sidewalk by two white police officers.

A third white officer is shown launching into a profane tirade against a television news producer for the Associated Press whose cameraman was filming a segment about the return of nightlife to New Orleans' French Quarter.

The three officers, Lance Schilling, Robert Evangelist and S.M. Smith, have been suspended without pay and charged with battery, and they received public criticism from Mayor C. Ray Nagin, who said of the beating Davis received: "Whatever he did, he didn't deserve what I saw on tape."

As the officers' case unfolds in court and officials here worry about whether it may damage the city's strenuous bid to rebuild its tourism economy, the man on the receiving end of the blows insists he is mystified by the whole incident "” and irate at the police account that he was drunk at the time.

"I haven't had a drink in 25 years," Davis said.

Davis was sent to a local hospital, where he was treated for a fractured cheekbone, a broken nose and a black eye.

Then he was sent to jail.

Police officials said the officers' case and Davis' "” he is charged with public intimidation, public intoxication, resisting arrest and battery on a police officer "” would be dealt with in court and that they would have no further comment.

The Associated Press said neither the producer nor the cameraman would comment.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson embraced Davis on Canal Street on Tuesday and told reporters it was "self-evident" that racism was involved in the incident.

However, Davis himself said he was not so sure, and his lawyer, Joseph Bruno, said of the incident: "This is not an indictment of the whole department. It's about a few bad eggs who need to be gotten rid of."

Davis said the incident began when he approached a black police officer on horseback to ask him about details of a nighttime curfew.

When a white officer who was not on horseback intervened, for reasons that are not clear, Davis complained of his rudeness, at which point the encounter turned physical.

"The black officer just stood by," Davis said. "He didn't intervene to tell the other guys I was clearly no threat."

The name of the black police officer has not been released.

Davis said that though he could understand that the white officer was taken aback by his criticism, he remained dumbfounded by the inebriation charge. He said he had stopped drinking in 1980, after he blacked out from a night of heavy drinking.

"I had a Thunderbird at the time," he said. "I came downstairs, the thing had two flat tires, and I had absolutely no recollection of how I got home. I knew I had a problem, so I just stopped."

Davis, who has a master's degree in education from Xavier University in New Orleans, said he had not used drugs since college.

A longtime friend of Davis' supported his account of being a non-drinker.

"I've known Bob for more than 20 years," said Paul West, 67, a fellow former schoolteacher. "I've spent a lot of time with him, a lot of weekends. He doesn't drink, period."

The FBI said Tuesday that it had opened a civil rights investigation into the beating incident, and the Justice Department said it was monitoring the situation.

The FBI has sent a team of four agents from outside the region to conduct the investigation.

"They will do an investigation of the entire incident, provide the results to the Department of Justice, and then their civil rights division will make a determination relatively quickly" on how to proceed, including whether to bring charges, said FBI spokesman Richard Kolko, adding that the bureau investigation would probably take only a few days.

Kolko said two FBI agents at the scene of the beating were there because they had responded to a request for assistance from the New Orleans Police Department.

"The two agents got there basically at the end of the incident," Kolko said, adding that there was "absolutely no indication" that the agents had done anything improper.

Times staff writer Richard B. Schmitt in Washington contributed to this report.

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times
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Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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Does it strike anyone as the futility of such a discussion?

We know no one did it, because they were not there.

We know no one was wrong none of us were there.

No one speaks for the United States regarding chattel slavery and Jim Crow.

It's an individual thing.

We can't speak for African America,'

It's an individual thing.

They will 'game us' to death.

And...we keep leaping in the air at the bone.

European Americans did it regardless of what they call themselves.

The United States Sanctioned it in writing and in practice.

Soon we'll be arguing that it didn't happen at all.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Does it strike anyone as the futility of such a discussion?

We know no one did it, because they were not there.

We know no one was wrong none of us were there.

No one speaks for the United States regarding chattel slavery and Jim Crow.

It's an individual thing.

We can't speak for African America,'

It's an individual thing.

They will 'game us' to death.

And...we keep leaping in the air at the bone.

European Americans did it regardless of what they call themselves.

The United States Sanctioned it in writing and in practice.

Soon we'll be arguing that it didn't happen at all.

PEACE

Jim Chester


......as reality woud have it, there is certainly more than enough blame to go around. Be it the United States, the continent of Africa or otherwise, Caucasians are not the only individuals to enslave Black people!

...Heck, in many instances, for a few shiny pieces of silver or even less, Black African rulers sold many of their own people to Caucasians...

...meaning again, there is certainly more than enough blame to go around!
quote:
Originally posted by Michael:
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Does it strike anyone as the futility of such a discussion?

We know no one did it, because they were not there.

We know no one was wrong none of us were there.

No one speaks for the United States regarding chattel slavery and Jim Crow.

It's an individual thing.

We can't speak for African America,'

It's an individual thing.

They will 'game us' to death.

And...we keep leaping in the air at the bone.

European Americans did it regardless of what they call themselves.

The United States Sanctioned it in writing and in practice.

Soon we'll be arguing that it didn't happen at all.

PEACE

Jim Chester


......as reality woud have it, there is certainly more than enough blame to go around. Be it the United States, the continent of Africa or otherwise, Caucasians are not the only individuals to enslave Black people!

...Heck, in many instances, for a few shiny pieces of silver or even less, Black African rulers sold many of their own people to Caucasians!


Wrong! Black African rulers sold tribal enemies of other Africans to whites. Hutus in Rwanda didn't kill other Hutus, they killed Tutsis. Just because both groups were black didn't mean they were they're own people. Hell, English enslaved the Scottish (in "Braveheart"). Does that mean English and Scottish are the same, because they're both Britons? Get it right!

Africans enslaved other Africans, like Caucasians enslaved Africans and Arabs enslaved Africans. The difference is that unlike African enslavers, Arab and Caucasian slavers of Africans BOTH made it racial and used the Bible or Qu'ran to justify it.
Huey and/or anyone else of similar expression,

"Wrong! Black African rulers sold tribal enemies of other Africans to whites. Hutus in Rwanda didn't kill other Hutus, they killed Tutsis. Just because both groups were black didn't mean they were they're own people. Hell, English enslaved the Scottish (in "Braveheart"). Does that mean English and Scottish are the same, because they're both Britons? Get it right!

Africans enslaved other Africans, like Caucasians enslaved Africans and Arabs enslaved Africans. The difference is that unlike African enslavers, Arab and Caucasian slavers of Africans BOTH made it racial and used the Bible or Qu'ran to justify it." by Huey

*****************************

...........be it whether I have it right or wrong, Black people continue to be their own worse enemies!

Evidently, Black on Black criminal and/or self destructive activity has been going on for centuries.

....well even you openly admit, without regard to the reasons, Black people sold other Black people into slavery.

Now this is indeed a start, or a new twist, rather than the same old tired story, that in most every instance, Caucasians, and Caucasians alone are responsible for the enslavement of Black people.


...and as more truth is disclosed the cause for reparations for slavery will be diminished, diminished in the sense that unless all the various factions accept financial responsibility for their part in the atrocities of slavery of Black people, slim chance exists to where any reparations claim for slavery will be solely shouldered by Caucasians, be the claim be made today, or many centuries from today!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
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quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
And reparations aren't just for slavery, but also black codes and other types of discrimination procedures, like Jim Crow segregation, that made it legal for whites to dehumanize blacks after slavery.


...again in order to file a claim there must be specifics as to the nature of the claim, the perpetrators, and valid proof.....

....to which until it is proven that Caucasians are the only individuals responsible, be it for acts of slavery or other acts of oppression, slim chance exists where those making such a claim will win anything substantial.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
Michael, it's plain and simple. White bigots lynched blacks. The acts were documented, photographed, and at several times CELEBRATED.


Open the link, connected with Hueys quotation, for an formal example of a claim for redress.

*******************

Well Huey,

...Since it is just plain and simple perhaps you should pursuit or make good on your interests.

I'm not about to, because those who were enslaved, and the enslavers, as it applies to my family tree are long dead.

Again, in order to file a claim, be it on an individual basis, or a class action suit, the same applies in that:

A. Any claim for damages must detail the specifics as to the party or parties violated.

B. Any claim for damages must detail proof of the specifics as to the party or parties who, or whom, are responsible for any wrongdoing, be it a criminal or civil violation.

C. The claim, the circumstances, the proof, must be filed within a timely fashion as it relates to the "Statute of Limitations" or otherwise.

D. The claim must be filed in proper format.

E. The claim for redress must be filed in the appropriate court jurisdiction.

F. Filing fees where applicable must be paid to cover court costs.

G. Any other requirement.

I wouldn't be interested in any class action suit anyway, because the trial lawyers reap the benefits, and the many plaintiffs receive little if any benefit.

I have however taken an active interest, and contributed to circumstances in a claim for damages, using the steps in A through G above, that are possible to reap benefits in contemporary times, to which reparations for slavery, a "mission impossible" is not mentioned or included!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton
some claim they do not want to be a part of the process for reparations....but like affirmative action which they decry, yet benefit from...they'll be the first in line for receipt of any benefit that is decided upon if reparations are granted to black people.....they are never a part of the effort but always a part of the benefits that arise from the efforts....which speaks volumes about what kind of people they really are......now moving right along.....
From what I've read about it, Blacks bought other Blacks for 2 primary reasons: 1) economic survival that did NOT include enslavement in perpetuity (and the subsequent dehumanization) and 2) to free family and friends.

I disagree that we cannot judge the actions of yesterday by today's standards. Not everyone bought other people for enslavement, there were inumerable people who did not and would not participate in the practice in America.

The fact that Africans in America did participate in no way weakens the fight for reparations, especially in light of the wealth gap created in favor of non-Black people because of the slave trade in Africans and the the contributory businesses that prospered from it. Despite flaccid and desperate arguments that highlight Black people's behavior being influenced by their era and by their circumstances, (all human beings are --think of the Jews who cooperated w/the Nazis and the Stockholm syndrome that envelopes people in hostage situations), that does not minimize their victimization and right to recompense.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
...they'll be the first in line for receipt of any benefit ...they are never a part of the effort but always a part of the benefits that arise from the efforts ....


Sad, yet too true! Sadder still is the misunderstanding of the issue at hand. Wholesale political disenfranchisement of the collective is a specific. So, too, is the application of Jim Crow laws, which includes past & present real estate redlining and employment discrimination (as evidenced by a multitude of studies and live testing).

I have noticed that, among many other misconceptions, those most in opposition to reparations still have the idea that people are fighting for a personal check to be placed in their hand. I am reticent to correct that misunderstanding because it is more interesting to watch as they try to figure out the right answer.

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