By: Joseph C. Phillips, BlackAmericaWeb.com

The headline in a recent Seattle Post-Intelligencer caught my eye: "Race Gap in school discipline persists in Seattle." The article appeared on the heels of a report released by the Children's Defense Fund entitled, "Educational Apartheid in The U.S." Both the CDF report and the article conclude that, "compared with white students, African-Americans were nearly twice as likely to receive short-term suspensions, lasting 10 or fewer days. Long-term suspensions were imposed on black students more than twice the time."

The implication, of course, is that the gap is due to insensitive teachers and institutional racism. As the father of three school-age boys, I was naturally concerned. If black students are being unfairly punished for behavior that their white peers are not; if there is, in fact, racial apartheid being practiced in the public schools, I want to be on guard.

However, there is nothing in either report to suggest this is the case. The claims made by the Seattle school board and the CDF do not address unfair treatment, but disproportionate treatment. The conclusions are based on numbers, not behavior. Children read, watch television and play basketball in disproportionate numbers, yet somehow the idea that they may also misbehave in uneven numbers is unthinkable. The relative numbers become proof of inherent and intractable institutional racism.

Of course, one can make the argument that the discipline gap persists due to racism, but it is not bigotry that is responsible for the black student truancy rate, which is also twice that of white students.

The data also reveals that boys are two times as likely as girls to suffer suspensions. Neither the CDF nor the Seattle school board attempt to make a case of underlying sexism in the administering of discipline. Instead, they frame the debate in the language of race -- "apartheid!" -- and talk of discipline as though kids are being punished for running in the halls, as opposed to behavior that warrants suspension and expulsion. The framework is wrongheaded and so are the solutions that follow.

The CDF recommends that "decisions about suspension and expulsion should be made individually, after careful consideration of their efficacy for school safety and for each child." Ruth McFadden, who oversees district programs that address student discipline and truancy in Seattle, puts it more candidly: "school administrators will discipline all students, but take cultural difference into account." What remains unclear is how people who are concerned with fairness and equality would seek to institutionalize the notion that there is something cultural that leads black students to misbehave. The soft bigotry of lowered expectations rears its ugly head once again.

The Seattle report offers a numerical disparity that presents a more plausible explanation for the behavior gap. The data reveals a clear correlation between the disciplinary rate and the number of students living in single parent homes. According to the Seattle school district's figures, there are almost an equal number of black and Asian students enrolled in the Seattle schools. Sixty-seven percent of black students in the district live in single parent homes versus 29 percent of Asian students. Yet, black students are more than three times as likely to be suspended or expelled. This is the elephant sitting in the room.

A two-parent household does not guarantee a child's success, but the evidence continues to mount that children living with both parents in the home are at an advantage.

We can either march forward under the illusion that a discipline gap exists because teachers are a bunch of racists, suspending black children more than white for no other reason than the color of their skin, or we can finally realize that a breakdown in the traditional family structure and an embracing of the destructive social behavior and attitudes that have accompanied it, are playing the devil with our children.
Original Post
quote:
This is the elephant sitting in the room.



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Funny how this Elephant ONLY sits in the room of single 'Black' mothers -- nobody else, no other single mothers/parents -- more 'chug and plug' psychology.

What is also not being said here is the fact that children from two parent households are viewed differently and treated differently and disciplined differently and less often in the majority of cases involving school discipline/infractions, etc., while there is a different (unwritten) set of rules for Black children, for Black children from single parent households, for poor white children, for poor white children from single parent households.
Hmmm....I have an issue with the way Mr. Phillips is framing this issue. He is automatically assuming that the school administrators and teachers are 100% faultless, at least that's the impression I get from the tone of his article.
Everyone has their own prejudices when they come into a situation. Unfortunately, there are teachers and administrators who are biased against black children and boys, especially. One can only speak upon this based upon their own experiences. I don't think that Mr. Phillips has ever talked to any of these parents or former students to draw his own conclusion. I guess he just didn't have the time to research the entire story, but just to give his own seemingly limited view of this.
Every issue, has more than one side. Again this is a great example of a conservative offering up their own view without delving into some serious research. Ah! what are we to do with these folks??
I'm going to add something else, I know many single parents of various races whose children are more well behaved than some of the children with two parent families and get better grades. Which begs the question, why??
I reality, it has nothing to do with the amount of parents in the home, but the quality of parent and parenting in the home.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
Hmmm....I have an issue with the way Mr. Phillips is framing this issue. He is automatically assuming that the school administrators and teachers are 100% faultless, at least that's the impression I get from the tone of his article.
Everyone has their own prejudices when they come into a situation.
___________________________________________

If there were not a bias against single parents and children that came from single parent homes, the irrevelant statement about 'single parent homes' would never have beens made in the first place. In fact, the fact that children's parent's marital status is so sought after in nearly every school form, etc., in the first place, is flaming evidence of pre-categorizing chidren in the onset in most public schools.
I don't see how he reaches his conclusion. Children in two-parent homes are certainly at an advantage in a variety of ways. The breakdown of some "traditional" values and embracing of destructive behavior is definitely causing our children harm. AND there are plenty of teachers and administrators out there who are racists and punish Black children to a much harsher degree than white students. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
quote:
We can either march forward under the illusion that a discipline gap exists because teachers are a bunch of racists, suspending black children more than white for no other reason than the color of their skin, or we can finally realize that a breakdown in the traditional family structure and an embracing of the destructive social behavior and attitudes that have accompanied it, are playing the devil with our children.
Or we can actually be honest and get off the ideological soapboxes. How about that? sck

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quote:
From: The Color of Discipline: Sources of Racial and Gender Disproportionality in School Punishment

...Despite the ubiquity of findings concerning the relationship between race and behavior-related consequences, investigations of behavior, race, and discipline have yet to provide evidence that African American students misbehave at a significantly higher rate. Whether based on school records (McFaddenet al., 1992) or student interviews (McCarthy & Hoge,1987), studies have failed to find racial disparities in misbehavior sufficient to account for the typically wide racial differences in school punishment. If anything, African American students appear to receive more severe school punishments for less severe behavior (McFadden et al., 1992; Shaw & Braden, 1990).


PDF file with apparent full study:
http://www.indiana.edu/~safeschl/cod.pdf

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Compare & Contrast:
  • "We can either march forward under the illusion that a discipline gap exists because teachers are a bunch of racists..."

  • "What remains unclear is how people who are concerned with fairness and equality would seek to institutionalize the notion that there is something cultural that leads black students to misbehave. The soft bigotry of lowered expectations rears its ugly head once again."
Hmmm... In one instance, it's bad to call something/someone "racist" but, when it suits Mr. Waymon Tinsdale III, calling someone a Bigot, even a Soft-Bigot, is okay. Surely, it illustrates a point, huh Waymon? Don't know what kind of point but it does.

It's like the Reverse Sell-Out game... Borrowing and reframing the frames they claim they disdain because of those purported things that leave a nasty stain and restrain or constrain "our" community, etc. :
"There was a "Great Sellout" of our race in 1965...".

Hmmm.... It's pretty cool and sanitary. The way they do that. Roll Eyes
Last edited {1}
quote:
Funny how this Elephant ONLY sits in the room of single 'Black' mothers -- nobody else, no other single mothers/parents -- more 'chug and plug' psychology.


Maybe the PRIMARY CONCERN OF HIS IS BLACK PEOPLE AND THUS HE DOES NOT NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHITE FOLKS!!!!!

Why must Black people reference White folks as guidance on what we should be doing? Is it possible for us to have certain policies and standards that are free and clear of them?

I am a parent. I have associates and family members who are either single parents or teenaged parents. It is hard for me and my wife to raise our children. I can only empathize with the burden that single parents face.

There is no doubt that some women do a good job in taking care of their children on their own. When I was single and dating I marveled at the ability of some of them to take care of their kids absent adequate help from the father.

I disagree with ATTACKS on Single women. Let us not translate CONVERSATIONs about the challenges that single parenthood brings upon the kids as AN ATTACK.
quote:
Maybe the PRIMARY CONCERN OF HIS IS BLACK PEOPLE AND THUS HE DOES NOT NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHITE FOLKS!!!!!
BULLSHIT!!!

If his concern was "Black People", primary or otherwise, then he would be much more apt to GET HIS FACTS STRAIGHT!!!

RHETORIC ain't shit! That old tired line, "My primary concern is Black people"... ain't shit! Neither one of you can just claim that shit and it will be, just because you say it. That stuff is demonstrated by the degree of concern you and Waymon have for dealing with FACTS!
quote:
Why must Black people reference White folks as guidance on what we should be doing? Is it possible for us to have certain policies and standards that are free and clear of them?
It is possible for you to find better ways of trying to illustrate your points instead of the same old tired RHETORIC, up to and including these lame ass rhetorical questions.

quote:
I disagree with ATTACKS on Single women. Let us not translate CONVERSATIONs about the challenges that single parenthood brings upon the kids as AN ATTACK.
Well, when certain FACTS are ignored IN DEFERENCE TO WHITE FOLKS...
    The teachers can't "a bunch of racists"... but I, Waymon Tinsdale III, can turn around and call all the people against these inexplicable (using the FACTS) discrepancies "[soft] bigots" because they use FACTS that demonstrate that something beyond my Tinsdale III self-loathing, self-denigrating perception that Black kids and their single parents have to be at fault for the higher amounts of discipline they receive even when there is NO information that supports my Tinsdale III ideas besides my fucked up and skewed perceptions that make me, Tinsdale III, want to run with any theory that says "It's Black folks fault." You know, got to keep White Folk out of this.

**************************************************************************
quote:
From: The Color of Discipline: Sources of Racial and Gender Disproportionality in School Punishment

...Despite the ubiquity of findings concerning the relationship between race and behavior-related consequences, investigations of behavior, race, and discipline have yet to provide evidence that African American students misbehave at a significantly higher rate. Whether based on school records (McFaddenet al., 1992) or student interviews (McCarthy & Hoge,1987), studies have failed to find racial disparities in misbehavior sufficient to account for the typically wide racial differences in school punishment. If anything, African American students appear to receive more severe school punishments for less severe behavior (McFadden et al., 1992; Shaw & Braden, 1990).


PDF file with apparent full study:
http://www.indiana.edu/~safeschl/cod.pdf

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I'll repeat it one more time, CON-Feed, then I'll ask for your response:

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  • Investigations of behavior, race, and discipline have yet to provide evidence that African American students misbehave at a significantly higher rate.

  • Studies have failed to find racial disparities in misbehavior sufficient to account for the typically wide racial differences in school punishment.

    **************************************************************************

    So, in light of those FACTS... those FACTS... what else can you call Joe Phillips' (aka Waymon Tinsdale III's) commentary but an "attack"?? Whether it's intentional or unwitting is irrelevant. When someone rushes headlong into RHETORIC, rushes to locate or place blame in something Black Folk do or don't do (and dare try to package that inordinate BS as "concern" or "brutal honesty", etc.)... when Joe Phillips and others with perspective like his have this blatant disregard for facts... what else is it but an "attack", an assault and an insult to our collective intelligence when he (and others) try to piss on us (Black people) and call that BS thoughtful, concerned and clean, refreshing rain.

    quote:
    We can finally realize that a breakdown in the traditional family structure and an embracing of the destructive social behavior and attitudes that have accompanied it...
    Hmmm... Given what THE FACTS say, it appears that "breakdown" and those "destructive social behaviors and attitudes"... whatever they are... however they manifest in school discipline... It's clear they don't account for or explain the much of any of the very Discipline Gap Mr. Phillips called himself addressing.

    At the very least, since he's going to try to criticize... IN DEFERENCE TO WHITE FOLKS... the conclusions that may suggest the presence of some type of "racism" involved in school discipline, institutional or otherwise (he needs to know what the hell he's talking about before he mentions "institutional racism")... At the very least, Phillips could make more compelling and coherent arguments:

    quote:
  • Children read, watch television and play basketball in disproportionate numbers, yet somehow the idea that they may also misbehave in uneven numbers is unthinkable.
  • What's unthinkable is how that was suppose to illustrate a point. But I guess misbehavin' has always been like a leisure time activity of choice of some more than others. Roll Eyes

    quote:
    It is not bigotry that is responsible for the black student truancy rate
    And, damn... I searched but I couldn't find anything in what Phillips said that told us what actual was/is responsible for Black student truancy. The connections he draws are no better, hardly any more sound than what he aims to criticize. But then again, I guess he did chart out the relationship between truancy and school discipline problems. Not that there isn't one or can't be... just that Phillips never SUBSTANIATED a thing he said.

    Just like the lazy link between single parents households and school discipline. He just cites the difference between Black families and Asian families, go figure... and then VIOLA!!! It's a full grown Elephant.

    Hmmmm.... Where are the stats that actually show that it is children from single parent homes who are tilting the discipline numbers beyond their proportions particularly with respect to other factors...?

    Yeah... hmmm... Given the FACTS, it's awfully curious how Phillips didn't compare the number of White kids from single parent homes or actually reference the actual facts. But then again, people with his mindset are quick to call any "correlation" that disparages Black folk a proximate CAUSE.

    Funny how that works. Just like that Reverse Sell-Out thingy.
  • As a parent of two young school age boys I have seen this phenomenon first hand. Little white boys can swing from the ceiling and they are "cute". Let a little black boy do anything - exibiting energy and vibrance outside a very narrow prescribed box of behavior - and it's a problem.

    The elephant in the room is white racism against black children. Black kids never get the benefit of the doubt that white teachers would want for their own kids (hence they generously shovel it out for other white kids). A black child is immediately seen to be a problem. A white child just needs more nurturing and care and patience.
    td6

    P.S. George Bush is the PERFECT example of an extrapolation of this concept. He was essentially a punk as a kid - contributing nothing to the world, a poor student, addicted to drugs and alcohol, and running afoul of the law numerous times. America looks at him and generously gives him a 45,987th chance. If he were black, with that record of "achievement", he would have been marked for life as a troublemaker/criminal/addict etc. at best, or else incarcerated for life.

    P.P.S.

    Top 11 known arrests/crimes by the family who would restore honor and dignity to the White House

    11. Dick Cheney's first DWI.

    10. George W. Bush's DWI.

    9. Barbara Bush, minor in possesson of alcohol.

    8. Jenna Bush, minor in possession of alcohol (3 times).

    7. Dick Cheney's second DWI.

    6. Laura Bush's vehicular homicide, record expunged.

    5. George W. Bush's arrest for larceny (stealing a Christmas tree, really!).

    4. Jeb's 24 year old daughter Noelle arrested for fraud at 1:15 am Walgreen's drive-thru in attempt to obtain prescription drugs.

    3. Jeb's son George arrested for breaking into girlfriend's home and malicious destruction of property.

    2. Jeb's other son John (Jebby) arrested for violating Florida sodomy law in a mall parking lot during days after 2000 election.

    1. Jeb's wife for smuggling undeclared purchases into the United States (fined thousands).

    Bonus:

    1. Dick Cheney's third DWI.

    2. Whatever earned George W. Bush a one year sentence of community service in Houston.

    3. Neil Bush fined for his "ethical disability" in Silverado savings and loan investigation. Cost to tax payers: 1 billion dollars (still paying interest), Cost to Bush: $0. The $50,000 fine was paid by a banking deregulation lobby.

    All of the above can be excused, but let a black boy step out of the lunch line and . . . watch out!! nono
    Last edited {1}
    quote:
    Originally posted by sunnubian:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Yemaya:
    Hmmm....I have an issue with the way Mr. Phillips is framing this issue. He is automatically assuming that the school administrators and teachers are 100% faultless, at least that's the impression I get from the tone of his article.
    Everyone has their own prejudices when they come into a situation.
    ___________________________________________

    If there were not a bias against single parents and children that came from single parent homes, the irrevelant statement about 'single parent homes' would never have beens made in the first place. In fact, the fact that children's parent's marital status is so sought after in nearly every school form, etc., in the first place, is flaming evidence of pre-categorizing chidren in the onset in most public schools.


    I didn't say that there wasn't bias against single parents. Please quote the line immediately following which states:
    "Unfortunately, there are teachers and administrators who are biased against black children and boys, especially."

    I don't have a problem with what you're saying Sunnubian, but please respectfully don't misquote me and attempt to take my comments out of context.
    I am the single parent of two black boys myself and I know the daily grinding that I have to do with my sons' school. Its taxing just to keep them above the board and let them know that I am watching their every step.
    CF....how do you think you measure inequity between the races if you do not conduct comparative measurements? When you buy something, do you compare it to the price for it at other stores or do you just say "this store has it so it doesn't matter what it costs anywhere else?"....which do you do CF? Your tommin is not going to fly...and if the house niggas think they are going to paint any behavior and particular to blacks as opposed to being HUMAN behavior that is coincidental to blacks....and others....they are shit out of luck....i never knew that there would be people with such inferiority-laden blood running through their veins.........
    I went to schools with white teachers and white kids. Back in the day, when someone called you names, you could slap 'em with no repercussions. That's no longer the case. One thing, you didn't do was bring the wrath of your parents upon you. My mother was no joke!! I knew what was expected of me and did it.

    I now send a family member to school who's in third grade. I've been sending her since Kindergarten and will send her brother in August. She gives me no problems and I expect none from her brother.

    During the day, I'm not a pretty sight. I wear two braids, big shirt, jeans, no makeup, while doing my deeds. I tell her and will tell her brother: "If that teacher calls me, telling me you misbehaved, this is how I will show up at school. I will embarrass you in front of your class, 'cause I'll be a little ticked. It's your choice. I work for you, getting you ready every day, you go and work for me, being all you can be and the best you can be." So far it has worked. I mean what I say. It's a deterrent.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Yemaya:
    quote:
    Originally posted by sunnubian:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Yemaya:
    Hmmm....I have an issue with the way Mr. Phillips is framing this issue. He is automatically assuming that the school administrators and teachers are 100% faultless, at least that's the impression I get from the tone of his article.
    Everyone has their own prejudices when they come into a situation.
    ___________________________________________

    If there were not a bias against single parents and children that came from single parent homes, the irrevelant statement about 'single parent homes' would never have beens made in the first place. In fact, the fact that children's parent's marital status is so sought after in nearly every school form, etc., in the first place, is flaming evidence of pre-categorizing chidren in the onset in most public schools.


    I didn't say that there wasn't bias against single parents. Please quote the line immediately following which states:
    "Unfortunately, there are teachers and administrators who are biased against black children and boys, especially."

    I don't have a problem with what you're saying Sunnubian, but please respectfully don't misquote me and attempt to take my comments out of context.
    I am the single parent of two black boys myself and I know the daily grinding that I have to do with my sons' school. Its taxing just to keep them above the board and let them know that I am watching their every step.

    ---------------------------------------------

    I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was really agreeing. I guess I assume 'the you is understood' as the discussion progresses and forget that written communication does not always come across the same as face to conversation, but anyway, I should have posted it like this maybe:

    And besides, or Also, etc., if there were not a bias against single parents and children that came from single parent homes, the irrevelant statement about 'single parent homes' would never have beens made in the first place. In fact, the fact that children's parent's marital status is so sought after in nearly every school form, etc., in the first place, is flaming evidence of pre-categorizing chidren in the onset in most public schools.[/QUOTE]
    quote:
    Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
    quote:
    Funny how this Elephant ONLY sits in the room of single 'Black' mothers -- nobody else, no other single mothers/parents -- more 'chug and plug' psychology.


    Maybe the PRIMARY CONCERN OF HIS IS BLACK PEOPLE AND THUS HE DOES NOT NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHITE FOLKS!!!!!

    Why must Black people reference White folks as guidance on what we should be doing? Is it possible for us to have certain policies and standards that are free and clear of them?

    ______________________________________________

    The name of the article he wrote was, "Race Gap in school discipline persists in Seattle."

    Unless he meant the race gap between some other races of people in those schools, 'white folks' would be the primary cause for the effect that he is writing about.
    quote:
    Why must Black people reference White folks as guidance on what we should be doing?
    And this is coming from Mr. "The Asians" himself. Funny how it's cool to reference things when your references can be used to disparage, huh PUNK-Feed? sck

    And, lo & behold...
    quote:
    According to the Seattle school district's figures, there are almost an equal number of black and Asian students enrolled in the Seattle schools. Sixty-seven percent of black students in the district live in single parent homes versus 29 percent of Asian students.
    Mr. Phillips (aka Waymon Tinsdale III) also just happened to mention Asian-Americans yet we don't hear a damn thing coming out of PUKE-Feed's mouth whining about referencing or comparing African-Americans to Asian-Americans...

    Hmmm.... Always IN DEFERENCE, huh PUNK-Feed?
    ... I mean 'WHITE BOY'? sck

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