This is written by a good brother of mine, Ras Benjamin from another website.

It's ironic, what King Benjamin said is nothing New and has been said before! African Oppression must be stopped and it is TRUE that Arabs and Europeans, as they were in the past, directly implicated in the bondage of Africans.

The true religions of African people are VODUN, YORUBA, SANTERIA, KONGO and RASTAFARI!!
These are the Religions that fostered American and Caribbean African slaves Revolutions. Only through our truest religions, will we ever be liberated! For as long as we worship Europeans, we will be a lost people with no foundation, no goals, No self-determination...

Ras Benjamin wrote a very informative and well written piece. I'm pleased to share it with you on this board!!


AfroMan.


-----------------


THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SHEEP VERSUS A LION
by Ras Benjamin.


My experience as a BLACK African

I has been wondering why and how the African politics has come to lack any modicum of morality. It has been an excruciating task because one could not come up with a simple and straight explanation. From the pedestal of visionary politics as we knew it before the advent of the dubious Caucasians on the coasts of African continent to that of moral bankruptcy and by extension social annihilation, cultural destruction, religious duplicity and subsequently, political charlatanism. How did we get here? What role did religion play in this sobering but anxiety induced journey?

What History taught us is very instructive and might serve as a guide. For those who are willing to extricate themselves from the cocoon of fundamentalism, it is easier to see how Christianity and Islam have brought Africa in general to moral ruins as a prelude to social and political ruins. It is easier to see how new values that are at best hollow, have come to replace age long ones that value integrity and dignity. It is easier to see how lacks of consequence for heinous behaviours condoned by these foreign religions and their champions have ripped apart the core of our Africanness, communality and brotherhood, and turned us into adversaries.

For any student of history, not blinded by "faith" (the believe of what you cannot prove), the fact that the Christian missionaries came as the forerunners of their exploiting governments is incontestably, clear enough. It is also clear enough that the traditional African trust was exploited to prepare the ground for colonialism.

Diabolically using the bible, the white man claimed he was bringing "civilization" when indeed he was bringing exploitation. When they were found out and Africans tried to resist, the missionaries exposed the hidden gunpowder under their cassocks and took our lands.
The fact that Christianity is found in all parts of the world today is not as a result of its strength as a faith or religion. It is a religion that was spread with sword and built on blood. The followers of Christianity vindictively and mercilessly fought among themselves for several hundreds of years because they could not agree on what to believe and practice. Even, the battles over the contents of the Bible should be instructive given the diabolical use it has been put by those who strongly profess the faith.

In 771 AD Charlemagne (Charles the Great) became the sole ruler of Frankish (French) Kingdom after the death of his brother and joint ruler, Carloman. The following year, he subdued Saxony, forcefully converted it to Christianity and imposed tithes for the support of clergy, churches and the schools and reportedly the poor. A year later in 773 AD he annexed Lombard Kingdom and donated it to the Pope Hadrian I (died 795 AD). On December 25, 800 AD, Charlemagne who in 782 AD had executed 4,500 hostages at Verden, was installed as the first Holy Roman Emperor by Pope Leo III, in Rome.

That a Pope would sanction and validate a heinous crime and conscienceless criminal like this did say and still says a lot about Christianity. This murderous acts of Charlemagne in the name of the Bible and Christianity and sanctioned by the Church was a prelude to the Crusades that followed. The first Crusade (1096 -1104) started by Godfrey of Bouillon and Duke of Lorraine; the Second Crusade (1145-1147) proclaimed by Pope Eugene III; the Third Crusade (1189 - 1193) started by Richard I of England and the Fourth Crusade (1202-1204) championed by Boniface of Montferrari. This last one ended with the establishment of the Latin Empire in1204 AD.
Thus when the descendants of these depraved minds visited the coasts of Nigeria in the garb of missionaries, they had no intention of saving any soul. They had no intention of bringing any "civilization" because they were savages who came to destroy our own civilisations and cultures as attested to by history. This prepared the ground for what we are all witnessing today in our social, economic, political and cultural lives.
The Christian missionaries were not doing anything different from what the Mohammedans have also being doing since the days of Prophet Mohammed. Since 628 AD when Mohammed captured Mecca, it has always been about the political control of other peoples and their lands and resources. In 632 AD when Mohammed (regarded as the first Caliph) died, Medina became the seat of the Caliph. He was succeeded by his father -in-law, Abu Bekr, who in turn was succeeded by Omar, a very close adviser to Mohammed two years later. It was Omar who advanced the frontiers of the Caliph in the name of Islam by conquering Syria, Persia and Egypt. He also defeated Heraclius ("Holy War"). It was under Omar that the Mohammedans captured Gaza in 635 AD when they move the seat of the Caliph to Damascus.

Fifteen years later in 650 AD,(that is eighteen years after the death of Mohammed himself), Caliph Othman organized, in accordance with his own personal wish and understanding, the putting together of Mohammed's teachings into 114 chapters to make the Koran, the holy book of the faithfuls of Islam. By this time the whole of Mesopotamia have fallen under the political control of the Mohammedans. So, when Uthman Dan Fodio embarked on his Jihad in 1804 in the area now known as the North West of Nigeria, where I am from, he knew exactly what he was gunning for. It was all about the political control of the land, resources and trade. It had nothing to do with saving any soul.

It was all a ruse. Uthman Dan Fodio only used religion, this time Islam, as an instrument to deceive and rally those who would follow him into battles to kill others and take over their lands and resources. For about 200 years, the effect of this lies and deceit are still ricocheting through the body politick of Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia, Tanzania etc. It would have been better if their real motive (which is political control) were not wrapped in the garb of having to save the souls that were never lost. There was nothing wrong in being a political warrior. But these religionists never had the candour to admit that they were carpetbaggers rather than "men of God."

What history has taught us from all these is that those behind these foreign religions are economic and political predators. They tried to convince us that our own traditional religions were inferior and should be discarded. African traditional religions were borne out of explicit practical experience unlike theirs that were based on half abstract and half experience. Our cultures were denigrated and theirs were sold as more authentic. But we now know that the reverse is the case. Now that we have local adherents of the foreign faiths they are all acting out like their dubious and diabolical masters, sponsors and their ancestors.

This is why it was easy for people like Tafawa Balewa the first prime Minister in Nigeria, who profess Islam to see nothing wrong in governing a nation into fratricidal crisis. This is why people like Ahmadu Bello who professed to Islam believes in annihilation of opposing view rather than tolerate them. It was why Mohammadu Buhari, "a man of Islamic faith" saw nothing wrong in tyranny and unjust persecution of innocents. It was why Ibrahim Babangida was able to swear falsely to Nigerians repeatedly and to his friends with the Koran and was still able to betray them without batting an eyelid. It was why Sani Abacha (The Worst dictator Nigeria ever knew) was able to get drunk endlessly, romp derangingly with prostitutes and visited destruction shameless on Nigeria while praying five times a day!

It is the same reason why Yakubu Gowon (Another President in Nigeria) who claimed to be a Christian was able to deceive Nigerians repeatedly about returning the country to civil rule and deliberately mismanage our resources without any conscience. It is the same reason why Olusegun Obasanjo (Current President) would consciencelessly engage in rigmarole to install Shehu Shagari while he claimed to be a Christian. It is why Theophilus Yakubu Danjuma would kill General Aguiyi Ironsi and Colonel Adekunle Fajuyi remorselessly and later down the line, personally supervise the murder of Mrs. Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti (Fela's mother) by having her thrown off the story building of her son's house, without any fear of repercussions.

Christianity and Islam have no means of punishing those who swear falsely and inflict damages on our psyche, even though they swore with Koran and the Bible. The reason for this could be traced to their origins, which had no true spiritual foundation as our traditional religions could lay claim to. But they always try to convince us that there would be some punishment for sinners in heaven (or is it hell?) that no one could empirically prove its existence. Meanwhile, they have been allowed a free reign to wreck the world and our lives for us! The purpose of Christianity and Islam was not spiritual but political and economical. This is what the history of their origin and spread has shown. It is why more and more people in here in Europe are staying off the churches while Islam continues to garner the image of murderous religion.

You would be signing your death warrant to swear falsely by Sango, Oya or Ogun in the real sense of it. These religions among several others in Yorubaland for example have no use for politics. They were and are still solely spiritual and moral, and are taken very seriously unlike the jokes that Bible and Koran have become. But the adherents of Christianity and Islam would want us to believe that our traditional religions were and still are idolatory. That they should be discarded. That Bible or Koran is it. That Ifa and others should not be listened to and should be ignored. They coined "paganism" to describe us because we do not share their lies and deceits.
Lloyd M. Graham in his DECEPTIONS AND MYTHS OF THE BIBLE wrote "the Bible is not 'the word of God' but a steal from pagan sources. Its Eden, including Adam and Eve, were taken from the Babylonian account; its Flood and Deluge is but an epitome of some four hundred flood accounts; its Ark and Ararat have their equivalents in a score of Deluge myths; even the names of Noah's sons are copies, so also were Isaac's sacrifice, Solomon's judgement, and Samson's pillar act. Moses is fashioned after the Syrian Mises; the laws after Hammurabi's code..." And Please, let us not forget how King James gathered some loyal intellectuals in Canterbury to write his own version of the Bible.

That the adherents of these faiths, Christianity and Islam, have used them to cause so much pain, misery and sadness for the entire human race is very instructive about the true intentions of their founders - to politically control others and their resources and if they resist, kill them. What their sentries in Nigeria are doing is not different whether they are Mallams, Sheiks, Imams or Reverends, Bishops or Archbishops. They keep preaching and convincing everyone to work towards the kingdom of Heaven while they all revel and enjoy the Kingdom of the world at the expense of the rest of us. They set us against each other while they help themselves to our resources and tax money. They preach that we pay tithes, so that they could concentrate on the "work of God." They ride around in mercedes benz cars while their "sheep" (yes , sheep, they never referred to their followers as "lions" or "tigers" because the sheep is a stupid animal) wander around endlessly on tired limbs. The Bishops and the Imams were never in the forefront of the struggles against want, poverty, squalor, oppression., dictatorship and tyranny. When some of them were involved, it was timidly. When they created schools, they used them as instruments of indoctrination. They used the schools to give us what Bob Marley described as "brainwash education to make us the fools." When they created hospitals, they used them only as instruments of control and dominance to force us to abandon our traditional faiths and ways of life.

Could anyone have imagined the leader of Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs in Nigeria, the Emir of Sokoto during the June 12 crisis, Alhaji Ibrahim Dasuki calling the annulment "an act of God"? Where is the morality in that? This is in no way different from the roles played by the Papacy during the Hitleric years when Jews were slaughtered like goats. It only confirms what one has been trying to put across that those religions have no spiritual basis hence their lacking in morality. Christianity and Islam have always been about political control of others and their resources. They have always been about worldly materials and not heavenly gifts. They have never been about right and wrong. Neither have they seriously ever been about any kingdom in heaven because they all know it is non- existent. This is why Peter Tosh sang the tune "everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die." Not even the Imams and the Archbishops who preach endlessly about it.

The only two religions that ever traded in human beings were Christianity and Islam. They only became abolition champions when slave trade became unprofitable. Christians and Muslims are the ones who traded in human beings across tribes, across continents. Look at those who fled Europe for religious persecution to come to North America. Look at how they killed the American Indians mercilessly as they were dispossessed of their land. Look at the Christians who imposed themselves on South Africa. Recall how they mercilessly and repeatedly killed harmless Africans who sought to be human beings. Recall how they exploited the people. Yet these are the people who claim superior civilisation based on Christian religion. If they considered themselves savages and acted as such what would the world have been like? Mere imagining such possibilities could drive anyone insane!

The point here is that time has come for people to think outside the box if they have any intention of not being spectators in this world. Yes, life is short. Yes, we all would die one day. But this is not enough reason why we should live our lives in want and misery while the so-called religious leaders help themselves to our wealth and resources. It does not explain why the Christian and Muslim leaders should be allowed to continue to collaborate with our oppressors to help themselves to our resources and politically manipulate and control us. We can not continue to knock our heads against the grounds in the mosques and churches in the name of prayer while our lives and the future of our children are being mortgaged by the dubious Christian and Muslim leaders in league with our exploiters. It has to be realised that we have this world that we are very certain of, to live before it would be the turn of a heaven that could not be guaranteed.

Since 1999, Obasanjo (President of Nigeria) has been shouting on the rooftops that he is a "born again." This indeed should arouse more suspicion than trust and confidence. It seemed that there is a functional relationship between these religions professed by our rulers in Africa and the social, economic and political ruins they have brought to bear on our people and country. Those who instituted bribery in our culture are Muslims and Christians. It is their mosques and churches that take donations from these rogues. It is their churches and mosques that validate their crimes. It is their churches and mosques that provide sanctuary for these criminals. May be it is time to resort to basics, go back to our roots and begin to rely on our indigenous culture. Through, that, we may be able to find our lost ways and bring sanity to bear on our polity for the sake of posterity.

[This message was edited by Afroman on June 28, 2003 at 01:16 AM.]
Original Post
Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

Brotha Jalil wrote:  "The only two religions that ever traded in human beings were Christianity and Islam."

 

  Don't forget the Jews my brotha.  They sold slaves too.  So that's three religions:  Christianity, Islam and Judah. But!  

No doubt, the Jews plus the other two brand name Abrahamic religions. I saw this in the archives and liked that it is written from a native African view. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This thread is 11 years old!

 

But I guess someone has to keep the white supremacist frame going.

 

White supremacist? I checked it. Maybe not born in Africa. The writer looks to be a Rasta from Jamaica. No harm, good article IMHO.

Seriously, this needs to stop. How can we condemn white racists for demonizing all blacks when we do the same to others? There are criminals who happen to be black. Is it right or even true to assume all blacks are criminals? What about blacks who happen to be Christian or Muslim? Are they criminals, too? These types of global or absolute pronouncements, in reference to human beings, are inherently false!

 

1. Red flags should automatically be raised when someone feels compelled to promote a belief at the expense of another or to build one's beliefs up by tearing down another. For example, an Atheist can state why he or she does not believe in God without insulting the beliefs of those who do. Unfortunately, too many Atheists (in my experience) feel the need to insult those who believe in God, which makes them come across as bigoted and crass.

 

2. Most Arabs are black! Not all Arabs are Muslim.

 

3. The majority of Muslims do not live in the Middle East!

 

4. I have a Bible and a Quran, in my possession, nearby. Neither Islam nor Christianity promotes or condones slavery. Do you honestly believe Jesus or Prophet Muhammad would have been in favor of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade?

 

People were (and still are) involved in the slave trade, not religions. People used religion as an excuse to enslave their fellow human beings. The Book of Revelation talks about those claiming they are one thing but are not but are in the house of Satan. These are lying hypocrites. This is really important: Most people during the time of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade were illiterate. They could not read the Bible any more than they could read the Quran. This allowed wicked people to deliberately misinterpret spiritual texts and use them to mislead the masses. Nowadays, there are more literate people than in the past. However, in this day and age, too many people are too lazy to find the truth out for themselves. They would rather be spoon-fed information, even if it is falsehoods and half-truths. 

 

5. In tarnishing Islam and Christianity, the author completely glossed over some of the unpleasant aspects of traditional African religious beliefs. Africa is a gigantic continent. Before Europeans arrived, there were many tribes and many spiritual belief systems. It wasn't only the five listed. Note that Christianity is a relatively new religion in Africa. The author, I noticed, didn't mention that female genital mutilation is practiced within the religions he cited; although, female genital mutilation is NOT a religious practice but a cultural one. Also, in some African tribes, you don't want to be accused of having brought an evil spirit into the community or be accused of being possessed by an evil spirit.

 

Then there is this horrific human tragedy going on (mainly in Tanzania):

http://www.npr.org/2012/11/30/...ant-threat-of-attack

 

Remember, people in glass houses should not throw stones. 

 

More info about religions in Africa:

http://www.sahistory.org.za/af...traditional-religion

http://exploringafrica.matrix....um/m14/activity2.php

 

6. Finally, the meaning of Islam is 'entire submission to the will of God.' In other words, anyone who submits to the will of (the-true-not-made-up-by-foolish-or-evil-people) God and obeys His (true-not-made-up-by-foolish-or-evil-people) law is by definition a Muslim, regardless of whether that person claims himself or herself to be a Christian, Jew, Yoruban, Rastafarian, etc. In this sense, Islam is not a religion at all but a way of life. How people go about practicing Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is a whole different story altogether. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This thread is 11 years old!

 

But I guess someone has to keep the white supremacist frame going.

 

How is his telling the truth about what religions [foreign] religions have did to Africa and the Black race 'keeping white supremacist frame going'?  

 

It seems to me that the world's "three major religions" are what is keeping the White supremacist frame going".

 

 

The Atlantic slave trade or transatlantic slave trade took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 16th through to the 19th centuries. The vast majority of slaves transported to the New World wereAfricans from the central and western parts of the continent, sold by Africans to European slave traders who then transported them to North and South America. The numbers were so great that Africans who came by way of the slave trade became the most numerous Old-World immigrants in both North and South America before the late 18th century.[1] The South Atlantic economic system centered on making goods and clothing to sell in Europe and increasing the numbers of African slaves brought to the New World. This was crucial to those European countries which, in the late seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, were vying with each other to create overseas empires.[2]

 

The Portuguese were the first to engage in the New World slave trade, and others soon followed. Slaves were considered cargo by the ship owners, to be transported to the Americas as quickly and cheaply as possible,[2] there to be sold to labour in coffee, tobacco, cocoa, cotton and sugar plantations, gold and silver mines, rice fields, construction industry, cutting timber for ships, and as house servants. The first Africans imported to the English colonies were also called "indentured servants" or "apprentices for life". By the middle of the 17th century, they and their offspring were legally the property of their owners. As property, they were merchandise or units of labour, and were sold at markets with other goods and services.

 

The Atlantic slave traders, ordered by trade volume, were: the Portuguese, the British, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch, and the Americans. They had established outposts on the African coast where they purchased slaves from local African tribal leaders.[3] Current estimates are that about 12 million were shipped across the Atlantic,[4] although the actual number purchased by the traders is considerably higher.[5][6][7]

The slave trade is sometimes called the Maafa by African and African-American scholars, meaning "great disaster" in Swahili. Some scholars, such as Marimba Ani and Maulana Karenga, use the terms "African Holocaust" or "Holocaust of Enslavement".[8]

 

The Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western AsiaNorth AfricaSoutheast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe(such as Iberia and Sicily) during their period of domination by Arab leaders. The trade was focused on the slave markets of the Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa. People traded were not limited to a certain race, ethnicity, or religion.[1]

During the 8th and 9th centuries of the Fatimid Caliphate, most of the slaves were Europeans (called Saqaliba) captured along European coasts and during wars.[2] However, slaves were drawn from a wide variety of regions and included Mediterranean peoples, Persians, peoples from the Caucasus mountain regions (such as GeorgiaArmenia andCircassia) and parts of Central Asia and ScandinaviaEnglishDutch and Irish, Berbers from North Africa, and various  other peoples of varied origins as well as those of African origins.

 

Like their Christian and Muslim neighbors, the Jewish people historically owned and traded in slaves. In the middle ages, Jews were minimally involved in slave trade.[1] During the 1490s, trade with the New World began to open up. At the same time, the monarchies of Spain and Portugal expelled all of their Jewish subjects. Several scholarly works have been published[2] to rebut the antisemitic canard of Jewish domination of the slave trade in Medieval Europe, Africa, and/or the Americas,[3][4][5][6] and that Jews had no major or continuing impact on the history of New World slavery.[5][6][7][8] They possessed far fewer slaves than non-Jews in every British territory in North America and the Caribbean, and in no period did they play a leading role as financiers, shipowners, or factors in the transatlantic or Caribbean slave trades.[9]

It is currently known that American mainland colonial Jews played a merely proportionate role in the importation of slaves from Africa and a marginal role as slave sellers, although their involvement in the Brazilian and Caribbean trade is believed to be considerably more significant.[10] Jason H. Silverman, a historian of slavery, describes the part of Jews in slave trading in the southern United states as "minuscule", and writes that the historical rise and fall of slavery in the United States would not have been affected at all had there been no Jews living in the American South.[11] Jews accounted for 1.25% of all Southern slave owners, and were not significantly different from other slave owners in their treatment of slaves.[11]

 

  It is no secret that Atlantic Slave Trade was fueled by Christian slavers from Europe and Arab Slavers from North Africa and the Middle East  who were Muslim and the Jewish slavers.  I am not going repeat myself regarding the religion aspects of all three because it can be researched on the internet. However these three religions are responsible for the slavery of Africans.  And that's the bottom line.  But!  

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This thread is 11 years old!

 

But I guess someone has to keep the white supremacist frame going.

 

How is his telling the truth about what religions [foreign] religions have did to Africa and the Black race 'keeping white supremacist frame going'?  

 

It seems to me that the world's "three major religions" are what is keeping the White supremacist frame going".

 

 

Only white supremacists are keeping white supremacy going. There are whites in all three of those religions.   The racist ones don't treat the black members in those religions any better than black non-members. The problem is that whites have all of the power and wealth. Let's place the blame where it lies: With a small group of people lacking melanin. They've hijacked and corrupted all three of those religions. And Jesus wasn't white!  

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This thread is 11 years old!

 

But I guess someone has to keep the white supremacist frame going.

 

How is his telling the truth about what religions [foreign] religions have did to Africa and the Black race 'keeping white supremacist frame going'?  

 

It seems to me that the world's "three major religions" are what is keeping the White supremacist frame going".

 

 

You cannot tell the "truth" about white supremacy using the fictional framework that was produced BY white supremacy. 

 

Let's place the blame where it lies: With a small group of people lacking melanin. They've hijacked and corrupted all three of those religions.

No argument from me on this.

We've been teaching this for years (approx 80 or so) but there are still people who will 'fill in the blanks' concerning the actual history of religious and cultural developments with what makes for an easier argument (i.e. the 3 major religions are all foreign to Africa-therefore we need to reject it and be in opposition to it etc). 

 

And then there's the problem of Romanticism among revolutionaries (including but not limited to Black people).   

 

 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

  And since ALL three religions consider their cultures WHITE!  Well...you know the story...but!

 

white people considered their culture to be proper and redefined the religious cultural, icons and avatars as white.

 

We then use their (white supremacist) re-definition as a starting point to combat the white supremacy they introduced.  The result is confusion over who and/or what to target and why.

 

 

I believe it is important to not look at the condition of the world as it is today and then conclude it was that way in the past. Islam, Christianity, Judaism are not exactly the same as they were in the past. They definitely are not the same as they were in the beginning. I recall reading somewhere (have to dig it up) that Prophet Mohammad stated (when he was alive) that Islam would be corrupted within 300 years. Christianity has been corrupted. So has Judaism. These were not white (European)-culture based religions. How could they be when their place of origin was the Middle-East? If you believe (like I do) that Jesus was black, it becomes even more absurd to believe that these religions are white-culture based.

 

Whites are the minority on this plant. They have always been the minority. Long before colonialism, the majority of the people who lived in the region presently called the Middle East were black, not white. Again, how can these religions be white-culture based? 

 

Islam and Judaism believe that Jesus was a prophet of God. Early Christians also believed that Jesus was a prophet of God. Not only that, they believed Jesus was mortal and the son of Joseph and Mary (the same belief as Muslims and Jews). Various decrees from the Council of Nicea, followed up with burnings (of people and Biblical text), forced (white) Christians to adopt and support the false notion of the divinity of Jesus (which, in turn, they forced on indigenous populations). The whole issue of the Council of Nicea and its wicked deeds is a long story. I'll let you read about it yourself or you can wait until they air it again on the History Channel. 

 

The point is MAN has corrupted religion. Specifically, a certain MAN has corrupted these religions. Religions did not and cannot corrupt themselves. MAN did this. The corruption of Christianity has everything to do with covering up Jesus's true nature (black prophet) and hiding the truth about whites. Who do you think God, in the Bible, was speaking of when he told Abraham that his seed would be in a strange land for 400 years as slaves? 

 

In Islam, from what I understand, it is believed that God gave the Bible to the people called Christians; God gave the Torah to the people called Jews, and God gave the Quran to the Muslims. The most important take-away in these spiritual books is that God always sends a prophet to a wicked people to warn them to change their evil ways or risk God's chastisement. Also, God always comes on behalf of the oppressed people. Well, if you are a powerful white racist, you would want to hide or suppress that bit of information, would you? How? Just make everyone think that everyone in those books are white.

 

None of these religions in their pure form advocate human beings mistreating other human beings because of their race, gender, etc. In all of those religions, doing so will cause you to be eventually chastised by God. Of course, if you are a white supremacist, you will feel that you are exempt or exceptional (above God's law) and continue to mistreat your fellow human beings.

 

Yes, white supremacy is alive and well on this planet. It has permeated ALL aspects of life on this planet: religions, history, everything! The original people in Africa can take back their continent and take full control of their destiny if they want. But it will not happen until they become united and stop swallowing the racist Kool-Aide. 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

This thread is 11 years old!

 

But I guess someone has to keep the white supremacist frame going.

 

Wait, I get it, you want to give a free pass and exclude Arabs and/or Muslims from the slave trade. Including them = a Neo-Nazi white supremacist view?! Sorry, they were all involved. Taking a pass on revisionist history.

As for the Big 3 religions, there was a time when each was spiritually alive and shone with truth. Institutional religions are about spirit n the past. Spirituality is about spirit in the present.  Religions devolve due to the war-god mind. They become about politics. Secular rulers wage war wearing the mask of prophets. Julius August Caesar (count the letters in each name 6,6,6,) wearing the mask of Christ is white supremacy. The Arabs and Jews do it too. No free passes. The Big 3 do not worship God. They each worship their own war god. They worship idols, not the Supreme. They all end up being infidels, liars and revisionists. 

 

Wait, I get it, you want to give a free pass and exclude Arabs and/or Muslims from the slave trade.

 

 

I guess someday people will actually read what I write and post here, but I'll try again for umpteenth time.  I have no interest in giving anybody a pass on anything.  However, that "non-pass" status is NOT a license to make up or rewrite history, based on suspicion or for the sake of an easy argument. 

 

@EarthAndSky...i agree.

Brotha Jalil wrote:  

Wait, I get it, you want to give a free pass and exclude Arabs and/or Muslims from the slave trade. Including them = a Neo-Nazi white supremacist view?! Sorry, they were all involved. Taking a pass on revisionist history.

As for the Big 3 religions, there was a time when each was spiritually alive and shone with truth. Institutional religions are about spirit n the past. Spirituality is about spirit in the present.  Religions devolve due to the war-god mind. They become about politics. Secular rulers wage war wearing the mask of prophets. Julius August Caesar (count the letters in each name 6,6,6,) wearing the mask of Christ is white supremacy. The Arabs and Jews do it too. No free passes. The Big 3 do not worship God. They each worship their own war god. They worship idols, not the Supreme. They all end up being infidels, liars and revisionists.

 

  I totally agree.  Unfortunately there are still those who believe that the creation of those religions had nothing to do with slavery.  And are completely BRAINWASHED into minimizing the dogmas that has completely destroyed any chance of resurrection for the continent of Africa.  Anytime you have an institution that uses its propaganda and myth to dismantle the socialization and civilization of a people[whose culture built the foundation for the world] and justify it by the pointing to an invisible God in the sky while MURDERING and MAIMING the innocents?  Well...it's easy to observe what happens.

 

See?  My brotha!  The difference with me?  Is I don't listen to them. Cuz these are the SAME ones who wlll ignore what is currently happening around them and turn a blind eye.    I'm sooooooooooo used to seeing them on stage on in public spewing their ignorance for attention while subliminal trying to forcibly minimize the TRUTH while maximizing their hypothesis based on RHETORIC!!  Cuz the truth is our people are dying whlle the arrogance of others stand on the podium screaming the sky is green while the blood of our people spatters around the world.  I have learn to continue to focus on my contribution to  the journey [of human freedom] that others set before me i.e Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth.etc cuz that's REAL. This other stuff?  Is just a distraction,  And it is THIS distraction [from our OWN people]  that continues to DELAY [but not STOP] our destination.  Pitiful. By the way just so folks won't get it TWISTED lemme repeat this again for clarity....I DON'T believe in the Bible, Quran.. or the Talmud.  These are all male religions that has historically THROWN women and children UNDER the bus.     But!    

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

Wait, I get it, you want to give a free pass and exclude Arabs and/or Muslims from the slave trade.

 

 

I guess someday people will actually read what I write and post here, but I'll try again for umpteenth time.  I have no interest in giving anybody a pass on anything.  However, that "non-pass" status is NOT a license to make up or rewrite history, based on suspicion or for the sake of an easy argument. 

 

@EarthAndSky...i agree.

 

Even Christians admit their part in Slavery, the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, and some even admit Christians crimes against humanity.

 

I don't understand, why you have such a problem with admitting that Arab Slave trade either existed the same say that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did and it's crimes against humanity and it's crimes against Black Africans in their own countries on their own continent.  None-Black people were not always in Africa anymore than White people have always been in North America.  

 

The Arab Slave Trade existed and still does and it was predominately Black people that they enslaved and in some Arab countries they are still enslaving Black people today.  Noting that Arabs also enslaved other races of people does not negate the fact that it was predominately Black people that Arabs enslaved.  And when I say "Arabs" I mean the people not indigenous to the African continent, but who migrated into northern Africa centuries ago.  

 

I know that technically, "Arab" denotes a nationality and not a race.

 

However, even the fact that [only] Black people, Africans, are still being held as slaves in certain "Arab" countries lets you know that it is also racial and racist.

 

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was not initially racial, it became racial. 

 

[And, don't think because I don't agree with you or cannot either see or understand your point of view, that I in any way mean it as a personal attack on you as an individual, or that I don't respect your knowledge, opinions or perspectives on so many things].

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:

Wait, I get it, you want to give a free pass and exclude Arabs and/or Muslims from the slave trade.

 

 

I guess someday people will actually read what I write and post here, but I'll try again for umpteenth time.  I have no interest in giving anybody a pass on anything.  However, that "non-pass" status is NOT a license to make up or rewrite history, based on suspicion or for the sake of an easy argument. 

 

@EarthAndSky...i agree.

 

Even Christians admit their part in Slavery, the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, and some even admit Christians crimes against humanity.

 

I don't understand, why you have such a problem with admitting that Arab Slave trade either existed the same say that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did and it's crimes against humanity and it's crimes against Black Africans in their own countries on their own continent.  None-Black people were not always in Africa anymore than White people have always been in North America.  

 

The Arab Slave Trade existed and still does and it was predominately Black people that they enslaved and in some Arab countries they are still enslaving Black people today.  Noting that Arabs also enslaved other races of people does not negate the fact that it was predominately Black people that Arabs enslaved.  And when I say "Arabs" I mean the people not indigenous to the African continent, but who migrated into northern Africa centuries ago.  

 

I know that technically, "Arab" denotes a nationality and not a race.

 

However, even the fact that [only] Black people, Africans, are still being held as slaves in certain "Arab" countries lets you know that it is also racial and racist.

 

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was not initially racial, it became racial.

 

I'm not getting what history is being "re-written" by stating particular facts.   

 

[And, don't think because I don't agree with you or cannot either see or understand your point of view, that I in any way mean it as a personal attack on you as an individual, or that I don't respect your knowledge, opinions or perspectives on so many things].

 

  Thank you my sista!  

 

[And, don't think because I don't agree with you or cannot either see or understand your point of view, that I in any way mean it as a personal attack on you as an individual, or that I don't respect your knowledge, opinions or perspectives on so many things].

 

And if people see YOUR opinion and PERSPECTIVE based on your experience and knowledge as an attack on them-that's THEIR problem my sista not yourn.  You can't closed your mind and silence your VOICE just cuz folks are NOT mature ENOUGH or OPEN enough to recognize that they are NOT the only ones with a critical THINKING brain.  And those who do take it personally?  Need to go seek help. Cuz EVERY body has a RIGHT to be heard. Even those who don't agree.  So keep SCREAMING who you are at the top of your lungs...don't let ANYONE throw ashes on your fire/passion cuz what YOU say matters too.  You have JUST as much VALUE in your commentaries as anyone else.  So my sista!  Continue to be that "you" cuz it is absolutely BRILLIANT and relevant.    Cuz me?  I'm gonna say what the  hell I want. Don't give a fock and don't give a damn.    Cuz I've learned through the years you always gonna have haters that THINK they KNOW better than you.  Don't mean that they do. And it ain't gonna STOP my party cuz this is MY life not theirs.   But!

Even Christians admit their part in Slavery, the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, and some even admit Christians crimes against humanity.

 

I don't understand, why you have such a problem with admitting that Arab Slave trade either existed the same say that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did and it's crimes against humanity and it's crimes against Black Africans in their own countries on their own continent.  None-Black people were not always in Africa anymore than White people have always been in North America.  

 

As I've pointed out time and again on this forum there is a HUGE difference in who and what people think they are talking and writing about whenever this issue comes up.  The short version is that the premise is false.  Now as a matter of history, you cannot assume that a slave system mirrors the U.S. slave system simply because its a slave system.  Its not a matter of justifying it or not, liking it or not...its a matter of getting the subject matter correct.  That is in addition to the conflation of the "Arab world" and "Muslim world". 

 

The Arab Slave Trade existed and still does and it was predominately Black people that they enslaved and in some Arab countries they are still enslaving Black people today.  Noting that Arabs also enslaved other races of people does not negate the fact that it was predominately Black people that Arabs enslaved.  And when I say "Arabs" I mean the people not indigenous to the African continent, but who migrated into northern Africa centuries ago.  

This is again is a problem with the subject in general.  If where going to discuss slavery on the African continent we can't skip around or start with narratives, definitions that don't hold on any historical examination.  The OP thesis is an example of this.  Although its 11 years hold, we see the attitude and conclusion drawn from it.  The "3 major religions" are treated as foreigners entering Africa when the exact opposite is the case.  Now how many people today start from that point of view?  Does it hold up on analysis?

 

 

I know that technically, "Arab" denotes a nationality and not a race.

 

However, even the fact that [only] Black people, Africans, are still being held as slaves in certain "Arab" countries lets you know that it is also racial and racist.

 

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was not initially racial, it became racial.

 

I'm not getting what history is being "re-written" by stating particular facts.   

Its the same narrative re-writing that causes people to associate Rock n Roll as "white peoples music" despite the fact that Black people originated it.  EarthAndSky has posted several good links on this in addition to several lectures I've posted from Wesley Muhammad who has no less than 4 books and numerous articles on this exact issue and then some. 

 

 

[And, don't think because I don't agree with you or cannot either see or understand your point of view, that I in any way mean it as a personal attack on you as an individual, or that I don't respect your knowledge, opinions or perspectives on so many things].

 

Oh without question.  I don't see, sense or take it that way at all. 

 

However, I do know that based on the way conversations on this issue continue here, material I've posted has (for whatever reason) gone ignored, or not understood.   That is especially notable and sad when the inevitable accusation of my "not wanting to admit...deal with....accept involvement...etc etc' is tossed in my direction.

 

Slave systems are social institutions.  They are institutions that I don't like, but me liking them or not isn't material to understanding how they function (past or present) in its proper context.  

 

In other words.....

 

We cannot justifiable fumble around with the facts, get things half correct or 100% wrong and then declare our mistakes trivial because "its all crimes against humanity, and all of it is wrong anyway".  If we're going to talk about it for the sake of telling the truth, and waking up Black people etc etc, then we have a responsibility to get it correct.    

 

 

 

 

  @ Sista Sunnubian!  As I always say...STAND in YOUR truth.  And don't let ANYONE distract or minimize your perspective or opinion or make you FEEL that you are NOT as intelligent or don't have mental capacity to analyze or determine what is REAL, conjecture or straight out bullshyte.  That's the BEAUTIFUL thing about being human....we ALL have our own  MINDS to think for ourselves and be the LEADER in our own lives.  We can reject the outside ideology of the peanut gallery just as they try to dismiss and reject us.  Cuz the school of thought?  Is OPEN to every one...man, woman AND child willing to think for themselves ... and if we were to listen to others in their weak attempt to marginalize the truth?  We would STILL be... [like so many others are STILL on the other side of world]....SLAVES in this country and the western hemisphere.  but thank God they were those  who thought outside the box of man-made theories/reasons....and had vision for freedom that ultimately CHANGED the course of the world. .but!

 When did evil enter into the world?  Will get to that in a moment.

 

Scholars come up with different views all the time. Religions and warring sects within religions have motives to defend their own version of ‘inarguable’ facts which  coincidentally always backs up their party line. It seems that maybe NOI has a motive  to blame others and excuse the Arab oppressor because it seeks a political connection with global Islam.  That’s how it looks.

 

There’s great value in the essence of Abrahamic religions, a lot less value in the war-god religious institutions. NOI seeks to provide autonomy for black folks. That is an incontestable value.

 

Some folks don’t buy into the different narratives which back up religious institutions.  I figure God created  the  human race and Satan is inside everyone who does not bow to God’s creation in all the races. Scapegoating, racism and hatred toward  any race or group  is ultimately Satanic.  He was tossed out of heaven for not bowing to God’s creation: human beings.

 

Crimes of one group against another are not excused  or forgotten. Some at NOI strongly criticized Mandela for seeking reconciliation with whites.  But reconciliation  is an African way. It is not perfect but….Satan’s way is not the solution either.  Things are complicated. We humans have to deal with that.

 

People are people who else could they be? The difference is in their conditioning. Everyone believes what they will. The NOI story about how Yakub, an African, is the one responsible for bringing  evil into the world by inventing white people is not an objective fact. Here’s another version of the origin of evil.

 

About a decade ago, a connected friend of mine invited me on two hours notice  to meet the Grand Shaykh of Cyprus. (”Our Grand Shaykh, Sultan Awliya Shaykh Mehmet Nazim al-Hakkani of the Osmanli Naks-i’bendi Sufi Association.&rdquo  When I got there, the room was already filled with clerics and others who wore big hats, a few I’d  met before. Soon enough, the Shaykh turned to my friend and asked him if he knew when evil came into the world. Glad it wasn’t me who was aked!  After an embarrassing silence, the Shaykh said “1789” keeping  his intense attention on my friend.

 

The punch line stated by the Shaykh is that the French Revolution brought evil into the world. That’s because it aggrandized the individual at the expense of the community. There are many Islamic condemnations of “modernism” and this is what’s behind it. There’s a lot of eye-opening  truth to it. Then again, there’s some  value in the individual since everyone is at some level their own school of religion and psychology, IMHO.  

Brotha Jalil wrote:  When did evil enter into the world? Will get to that in a moment.


Scholars come up with different views all the time. Religions and warring sects within religions have motives to defend their own version of ‘inarguable’ facts which coincidentally always backs up their party line. It seems that maybe NOI has a motive to blame others and excuse the Arab oppressor because it seeks a political connection with global Islam. That’s how it looks.

 

Looks that way to me too.


There’s great value in the essence of Abrahamic religions, a lot less value in the war-god religious institutions. NOI seeks to provide autonomy for black folks. That is an incontestable value.

Some folks don’t buy into the different narratives which back up religious institutions.


I know I don't. I look at the historical behavior of MAN not the distracting dogma of a "GOD."

 

I figure God created the human race and Satan is inside everyone who does not bow to God’s creation in all the races. Scapegoating, racism and hatred toward any race or group is ultimately Satanic. He was tossed out of heaven for not bowing to God’s creation: human beings.

 

Sounds good. But me personally? Don't believe that conjecture. I haven't seen satan nor God yet. Only the horrific racist sexist behavior of MAN.


People are people who else could they be?

 

Exactly my brotha!  Haven't SEEN anyone walk on water or come back from the dead...including my son.   And that would be proof right there about all this rhetoric men speak of.  But he didn't come back soooooooo don't believe 'em. 

 

The difference is in their conditioning.

 

Bingo!

 

Everyone believes what they will.

 

And are most times are forced to believe in it.

 

... everyone is at some level their own school of religion and psychology, IMHO.

 

I agree with this part. It's mostly psychological to fool the brain into thinking there is some invisible God watching the every move of man. But won't step in during pivotal moments of mass destruction and clear injustice. I used to say on this board years ago "whenever the time to split the sea? God should came during slavery."    But God didn't. Probably came to help free the slaves in this country. But after that, didn't come during the height of the drive-bys that KILLED many black youths [by black youths] while alllllll those BLACKS stood on the podium of religion screaming about their GOD  and did absolutely NOTHING to save their own people.

 

If there is a so-called God? God would be a loving and protecting God.  God wouldn't discriminate, God wouldn't encourage slavery and its continuation regardless of what MAN says. God wouldn't promote FGM on women and little girls. God wouldn't allow innocent children to be hurt by those who hide behind his cloth and to do horrific things to them.

 

All this is? Is men playing games with each other with an invisible measuring stick-much like sports. One win today. The other will win tommorrow. While the third referees. Until a God comes down and talk to me PERSONALLY. Nobody. Not one human being can tell me a thing about whose God is the best! My research tells me that MAN has been nothing but a USER [slavery] and a MONSTER[forced religion and war that have DONE nothing but  destroyed human life]...and in all instances I don't see a thang any where about creation only HEARSAY to justify MAN doing the evil things he has DONE to humanity through the years and blame it on a make-believe devil called satan! Just keeping it real...but!  

The short version is that the premise is false.  Now as a matter of history, you cannot assume that a slave system mirrors the U.S. slave system simply because its a slave system. 

 

So, what was the difference between the two slave systems where Black people are concerned? 

 

 

Its not a matter of justifying it or not, liking it or not...its a matter of getting the subject matter correct. 

 

 

Specifically, what subject matter is not correct?

 

That is in addition to the conflation of the "Arab world" and "Muslim world". 

 

 

But, isn't the "Arab world" and the "Muslim world" about as conflated as the two could possibly be?  

 

 

" . . . we can't skip around or start with narratives, definitions that don't hold on any historical examination . . ."

 

Which narrative do not hole any historical examination?

What is being skipped around?

 

 

The "3 major religions" are treated as foreigners entering Africa when the exact opposite is the case.

 

What makes the "3 major religions" "foreign" is the fact that the concepts and consciousness and truths that were originally African have been deviated, rewritten, revised, taken away from and added to, swallowed wholly and then regurgitated back down the throats of Africans many centuries later, by force, enslavement, conquest, and conning.  Centuries of War, Conquest and Turmoil waged against Africa wiped clean centuries of African knowledge, history and consciousness, creating a "Blank Slate" to write regurgitated, revised, and re-written, therefore, foreign, versions on the African psyche.

 

 

 

Its the same narrative re-writing that causes people to associate Rock n Roll as "white peoples music" despite the fact that Black people originated it.

 

I'm not sure if you are saying that African created slavery in the first place or if you are saying that slavery existed in Africa before the Arab or Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. I know that historically ALL races of people have participated in slavery at one point in their history or another, staying on the point of Africa and African/Black people, it was only Africans/Black people that have suffered the most brutal, far reaching, defeating, exploitative, genocidal system of enslavement that went as far as to make slavery racial and to create a slavery system base purely on race and/or color, which still exists today in some Arab countries.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Sunnubian....If you want a clearer example of what I was speaking about pay VERY close attention to Jalil's post and the theme running through it. 

 

The scholarship on this matter is broad and diverse, yet there's continued misrepresentation of both the position and the reasoning behind.  Setting aside the incorrect statement of Yakub's history (what he presented as fact is FALSE)--it is the continued attempt to deflect attention away from any detail of the history in lieu of a suspicion concerning a possible motive for going into the history..something that HAS NOT AND CANNOT be substantiated--all the while ignoring things that have been substantiated again and again..

 

So, what was the difference between the two slave systems where Black people are concerned?

 

 

Specifically, what subject matter is not correct?

 

There's way too much to detail in this response, but it is the subject of MANY works---several of which I've posted.   One is the dynamic of the system and subsequent analysis will vary depending on when, where and specific context the system occurs.  That's not a dodge to your question, its true of ANY social system or the study of any system that takes place.  For the sake of this discussion I am not who's right or wrong--the focus on on a comparison and contrast.  There's a lecture on AA.org somewhere dealing with the Darfur area and its history by Mamdani. He repeats what all historians do concerning reading 19th century chattel slavery into slave systems in ''pre-modern ara.   Consider this:

 

Today, due to lack of information beyond rhetoric and Eurocentric propaganda, some think that the Arab slave trade and the European trade share all the same properties—that they are mirrors of the same reality. So where ever a sentences says "European slave trade" just replace it with "Arab" and you have that history. And because Christianity in the African (excluding Ethiopia) was largely the product of slavery and colonialism, it must also be true for Islam in Africa. So this produces a forced ahistorical casual association between the rise of Islam in Africa, and the Arab slave trade. So now the entire Islamic history of Africa is a consequence of a supposed Arab invasion. Without any evidence to qualify these myths, another wave of intellectual destruction is taking away the agency and legacy of African Muslim contributions.[5] (As well as independent Christian history in Africa)

 

http://www.africanholocaust.ne...rade.htm#arabization

Of course you're free to consider it or not, but its clear this position is well beyond a "NOI partyline"

 

 

But, isn't the "Arab world" and the "Muslim world" about as conflated as the two could possibly be? 

The continued conflation is part of an ideological worldview (of which white supremacy plays a part), part sincerity mixed with ignorance (i.e. not engaging primary sources in ), and part intellectual disingenuous.  That continued conflation is NOT justifiable once it's clear that its taking place. 

 

What makes the "3 major religions" "foreign" is the fact that the concepts and consciousness and truths that were originally African have been deviated, rewritten, revised, taken away from and added to, swallowed wholly and then regurgitated back down the throats of Africans many centuries later, by force, enslavement, conquest, and conning.  Centuries of War, Conquest and Turmoil waged against Africa wiped clean centuries of African knowledge, history and consciousness, creating a "Blank Slate" to write regurgitated, revised, and re-written, therefore, foreign, versions on the African psyche.

According to what you wrote, that would make derivative incarnations "foreign"---to which I'd agree.

 

However, that is not what was being advanced above and the conclusion make no distinction.   And therein is the problem.  Instead of dealing with the subject with the complexity that's involved we've al

 

 

 

 

 

This supposed emphasis on facts seem to mean if anyone does not buy into the NOI approved narrative, they must support the Duck Dynasty and white supremacist creeps.Not so. The mention of Arab involvement in the slave trade is met with accusations of supporting white supremacy. Whaaat? I kind of get where you’re going but it’s a s-t-r-e-t-c-h.  Talk about a stretch, let me say in return, where’s the proof and the substantiated facts that Allah will smote whites from a UFO if a hand is laid on Mr. Farrakhan? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1btnpfmgQY

Here's the deal. You have to emotionally buy into the narrative to go along with it. In days gone by, I bought into some narratives. I was rapt, spellbound and wrapped up in some raps at one time. I also have to add that I admire your posts and have learned from some of them. However, not buying into the NOI narrative doesn’t mean I’m a kind of dupe or  supporter of white supremacy. That would be a s-t-r-e-t-c-h because it is not factual.

Originally Posted by Jalil:

This supposed emphasis on facts seem to mean if anyone does not buy into the NOI approved narrative......

That is what happens when you don't take time to actually READ the literature in and about a given subject. Be it, economics, politics, cultural issues or history. 

 

The accusation of white supremacy comes from those within the field, Muslim and non Muslim and is not a product of a NOI narrative. I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but that's easy to come by.  Hell, even Chomsky talks about it.

 

Ironically the only one to introduce any theological element to this is you....and you even got that wrong.

 

This is not a competition of ideology.  I have not advanced NOI theological elements as an explanation not because I don't hold to them.  On the contrary there's a world of evidence before the introduction of such is necessary.  Now if you're THAT interested in the Mother Of Planes and the question over its 'reality' then you can search for the Japanese pilot who tracked and drew it in great detail (I've not heard any claim that he was secretly in the NOI). 

 

But again, that's beyond the scope of this particular issue   

 

 

Originally Posted by Muhammad Cipher:
Originally Posted by Jalil:

This supposed emphasis on facts seem to mean if anyone does not buy into the NOI approved narrative......

That is what happens when you don't take time to actually READ the literature in and about a given subject. Be it, economics, politics, cultural issues or history. 

 

The accusation of white supremacy comes from those within the field, Muslim and non Muslim and is not a product of a NOI narrative. I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but that's easy to come by.  Hell, even Chomsky talks about it.

 

Ironically the only one to introduce any theological element to this is you....and you even got that wrong.

 

This is not a competition of ideology.  I have not advanced NOI theological elements as an explanation not because I don't hold to them.  On the contrary there's a world of evidence before the introduction of such is necessary.  Now if you're THAT interested in the Mother Of Planes and the question over its 'reality' then you can search for the Japanese pilot who tracked and drew it in great detail (I've not heard any claim that he was secretly in the NOI). 

 

But again, that's beyond the scope of this particular issue   

 

 

There are many ways of READING things. When an adversarial religious leader, as in the video, warns that if anyone lifts a finger toward him,  the US will be smote by an  Ezekiel UFO or equivalent that brings a pause. Old Testament comic strip? For an illuminating contrast, I can’t imagine that the Dalai Lama would speak that way. World of difference. Despite differences, I leave off with sincere respect for you.

'We guestimate that scholars and historians do not even know 10% of total African history. With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10%.'

-African Holocaust Society

 

 

The average black American knows less than 0.05% of the 10 percent.

 

Resurrected...

 

Early European Contact and The Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.

 

'Another aspect of the impact of the trans-Atlantic slave trade on Africa concerns the role of African chiefs, Muslim traders, and merchant princes in the trade. Although there is no doubt that local rulers in West Africa engaged in slaving and received certain advantages from it, some scholars have challenged the premise that traditional chiefs in the vicinity of the Gold Coast engaged in wars of expansion for the sole purpose of acquiring slaves for the export market. In the case of Asante, for example, rulers of that kingdom are known to have supplied slaves to both Muslim traders in the north and to Europeans on the coast. Even so, the Asante waged war for purposes other than simply to secure slaves. They also fought to pacify territories that in theory were under Asante control, to exact tribute payments from subordinate kingdoms, and to secure access to trade routes--particularly those that connected the interior with the coast.

 
'It is important to mention, however, that the supply of slaves to the Gold Coast was entirely in African hands. Although powerful traditional chiefs, such as the rulers of Asante, Fante, and Ahanta, were known to have engaged in the slave trade, individual African merchants such as John Kabes, John Konny, Thomas Ewusi, and a broker known only as Noi commanded large bands of armed men, many of them slaves, and engaged in various forms of commercial activities with the Europeans on the coast.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

New reading material...

 

The Arab Slave Trade ('Who Sold Us Out?'):

'In popular circles there is a "Who sold us into slavery?" debate that has been raging for years. It however has done little to advance a pure understanding of the African reality. It has always been used to divide African loyalty, and foster further distrust in Pan-African communities: by targeting certain countries, ethnic groups or religious groups. If African people are to heal and come to terms, and hence grow and reach a higher potential, it is impossible to avoid this issue for it will stymie Pan-African development. Understanding this notion of "Selling out" is critical aspect of the African Holocaust.'

http://www.arabslavetrade.com/ (scroll down)

 

Africa, Religion and Slavery:

'There is not one major indigenous African faith (that engaged in slavery) that had an issue with slavery, not one African native religion had principles that denounced slavery. Between the most aggressive slavers in West Africa such as Oyo, Benin, Igala, Kaabu, Asanteman, Dahomey, the Aro Confederacy – none of them Christian or Muslim.'

...

'And today the old urban legend of religion and oppression is invalid. The new tools of oppression hide themselves in western democracy. And in the Trojan horse of democracy are the soldiers of the free market, globalization and debt. False focus on religion is a death sentence, like worrying about a spider when a lion is about to pounce.

...

'Islam, Christianity, and what became known as Vodun all fell prey to human greed. All were used to enhance the position of the slavers. So in native African faith based societies (Dahomey especially) the rituals which were set-up for purity and celebrating the deities became an opportunity to acquire more captives.

 

'Life is beautiful and ugly too, but always diverse enough to respect the good in something while cursing the bad. Rome was a tyrant where Africa was concerned. But it doesn't mean every last thing in Rome was vile. Our world is far too sophisticated for such simplistic deductions. Ships carried every African from the Motherland to Africa (America?), do we curse the ship? Surely without ships there could never have been slavery. Planes were used to drop poison on Ethiopia, do we curse the plane?

 

'What in the message of Jesus said "Go to African and get as many Africans as you can?", Where in the Qur'an does it say "Where ever you find a Black make him a slave"? Democracy-- right now, is creating new colonies all over creation. However, this does not invalidate the principles of democracy just because of Obama and Bush have abused democracy.

 

'If these mainstream religions are the principle agent of mentally enslaving people why is there the same problems existing in countries that do not have the influence of these faiths? Does Benin have some superiority claim over Ethiopia? But if the argument was correct then we should see this. We should see more agency in Benin than in Islamic-Christian Ethiopia. Because if these Abrahamic faiths, as separate elements, are enslaving people then how do you explain Ethiopia's rich and power history? In treating a prostate cancer it is usually a good idea not to cut out the bladder and leave the prostate. Mis- identifying religion is a detrimental to Africa; it is only convenient for people who do not want to waddle through the complexities of the Africa's problem. And the language of "destruction and domination" is political language, not historical language. The script destroyed oral tradition, the car destroyed the donkey, the CD destroyed the record, and the turntable destroyed the musical instrument. It is no different with culture and religion anywhere.'

 

You can read the rest here. It is very informative and enlightening.

http://www.africanholocaust.ne...special.htm#religion

 

Heteropatriarchy and The Three Pillars of White Supremacy: Rethinking Women of Color Organizing: 

'Under the old but still potent and dominant model, people of color organizing was based on the notion of organizing around shared victimhood. In this model, however, we see that we are victims of white supremacy, but complicit in it as well. Our survival strategies and resistance to white supremacy are set by the system of white supremacy itself. What keeps us trapped within our particular pillars of white supremacy is that we are seduced with the prospect of being able to participate in the other pillars. For example, all non-Native 

peoples are promised the ability to join the colonial project of settling indigenous lands. All non-Black peoples are promised that if they comply, they will not be at the bottom of the racial hierarchy. And Black, Native, Latino, and Asian peoples are promised that they will economically and politically advance if they join U.S. wars to spread “democracy.” Thus, people of color organizing must be premised on making strategic alliances with each other, based on where we are situated within the larger political economy.'

...

'This way, our alliances would not be solely based on shared victimization, but where we are complicit in the victimization of others. These approaches might help us to develop resistance strategies that do not inadvertently keep the system in place for all of us, and keep all of us accountable. In all of these cases, we would check our aspirations against the aspirations of other communities to ensure that our model of liberation does not become the model of oppression for others.'

http://www.cpt.org/files/Undoi...lars%20-%20Smith.pdf

 

United we stand, divided we remain fallen. The truth will set us free! 

 

Originally Posted by EarthAndSky:

'We guestimate that scholars and historians do not even know 10% of total African history. With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10%.'

-African Holocaust Society

 

 

The average black American knows less than 0.05% of the 10 percent.

 

Resurrected...

 

Early European Contact and The Slave Trade (Ghanian perspective):

'During the heyday of early European competition, slavery was an accepted social institution, and the slave trade overshadowed all other commercial activities on the West African coast. To be sure, slavery and slave trading were already firmly entrenched in many African societies before their contact with Europe. In most situations, men as well as women captured in local warfare became slaves. In general, however, slaves in African communities were often treated as junior members of the society with specific rights, and many were ultimately absorbed into their masters' families as full members. Given traditional methods of agricultural production in Africa, slavery in Africa was quite different from that which existed in the commercial plantation environments of the New World.

 

'Another aspect of the impact of the trans-Atlantic slave trade on Africa concerns the role of African chiefs, Muslim traders, and merchant princes in the trade. Although there is no doubt that local rulers in West Africa engaged in slaving and received certain advantages from it, some scholars have challenged the premise that traditional chiefs in the vicinity of the Gold Coast engaged in wars of expansion for the sole purpose of acquiring slaves for the export market. In the case of Asante, for example, rulers of that kingdom are known to have supplied slaves to both Muslim traders in the north and to Europeans on the coast. Even so, the Asante waged war for purposes other than simply to secure slaves. They also fought to pacify territories that in theory were under Asante control, to exact tribute payments from subordinate kingdoms, and to secure access to trade routes--particularly those that connected the interior with the coast.

 
'It is important to mention, however, that the supply of slaves to the Gold Coast was entirely in African hands. Although powerful traditional chiefs, such as the rulers of Asante, Fante, and Ahanta, were known to have engaged in the slave trade, individual African merchants such as John Kabes, John Konny, Thomas Ewusi, and a broker known only as Noi commanded large bands of armed men, many of them slaves, and engaged in various forms of commercial activities with the Europeans on the coast.'

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaH...tory/slave-trade.php

 

New reading material...

 

The Arab Slave Trade ('Who Sold Us Out?'):

'In popular circles there is a "Who sold us into slavery?" debate that has been raging for years. It however has done little to advance a pure understanding of the African reality. It has always been used to divide African loyalty, and foster further distrust in Pan-African communities: by targeting certain countries, ethnic groups or religious groups. If African people are to heal and come to terms, and hence grow and reach a higher potential, it is impossible to avoid this issue for it will stymie Pan-African development. Understanding this notion of "Selling out" is critical aspect of the African Holocaust.'

http://www.arabslavetrade.com/ (scroll down)

 

Africa, Religion and Slavery:

'There is not one major indigenous African faith (that engaged in slavery) that had an issue with slavery, not one African native religion had principles that denounced slavery. Between the most aggressive slavers in West Africa such as Oyo, Benin, Igala, Kaabu, Asanteman, Dahomey, the Aro Confederacy – none of them Christian or Muslim.'

...

'And today the old urban legend of religion and oppression is invalid. The new tools of oppression hide themselves in western democracy. And in the Trojan horse of democracy are the soldiers of the free market, globalization and debt. False focus on religion is a death sentence, like worrying about a spider when a lion is about to pounce.

...

'Islam, Christianity, and what became known as Vodun all fell prey to human greed. All were used to enhance the position of the slavers. So in native African faith based societies (Dahomey especially) the rituals which were set-up for purity and celebrating the deities became an opportunity to acquire more captives.

 

'Life is beautiful and ugly too, but always diverse enough to respect the good in something while cursing the bad. Rome was a tyrant where Africa was concerned. But it doesn't mean every last thing in Rome was vile. Our world is far too sophisticated for such simplistic deductions. Ships carried every African from the Motherland to Africa (America?), do we curse the ship? Surely without ships there could never have been slavery. Planes were used to drop poison on Ethiopia, do we curse the plane?

 

'What in the message of Jesus said "Go to African and get as many Africans as you can?", Where in the Qur'an does it say "Where ever you find a Black make him a slave"? Democracy-- right now, is creating new colonies all over creation. However, this does not invalidate the principles of democracy just because of Obama and Bush have abused democracy.

 

'If these mainstream religions are the principle agent of mentally enslaving people why is there the same problems existing in countries that do not have the influence of these faiths? Does Benin have some superiority claim over Ethiopia? But if the argument was correct then we should see this. We should see more agency in Benin than in Islamic-Christian Ethiopia. Because if these Abrahamic faiths, as separate elements, are enslaving people then how do you explain Ethiopia's rich and power history? In treating a prostate cancer it is usually a good idea not to cut out the bladder and leave the prostate. Mis- identifying religion is a detrimental to Africa; it is only convenient for people who do not want to waddle through the complexities of the Africa's problem. And the language of "destruction and domination" is political language, not historical language. The script destroyed oral tradition, the car destroyed the donkey, the CD destroyed the record, and the turntable destroyed the musical instrument. It is no different with culture and religion anywhere.'

 

You can read the rest here. It is very informative and enlightening.

http://www.africanholocaust.ne...special.htm#religion

 

Heteropatriarchy and The Three Pillars of White Supremacy: Rethinking Women of Color Organizing: 

'Under the old but still potent and dominant model, people of color organizing was based on the notion of organizing around shared victimhood. In this model, however, we see that we are victims of white supremacy, but complicit in it as well. Our survival strategies and resistance to white supremacy are set by the system of white supremacy itself. What keeps us trapped within our particular pillars of white supremacy is that we are seduced with the prospect of being able to participate in the other pillars. For example, all non-Native 

peoples are promised the ability to join the colonial project of settling indigenous lands. All non-Black peoples are promised that if they comply, they will not be at the bottom of the racial hierarchy. And Black, Native, Latino, and Asian peoples are promised that they will economically and politically advance if they join U.S. wars to spread “democracy.” Thus, people of color organizing must be premised on making strategic alliances with each other, based on where we are situated within the larger political economy.'

...

'This way, our alliances would not be solely based on shared victimization, but where we are complicit in the victimization of others. These approaches might help us to develop resistance strategies that do not inadvertently keep the system in place for all of us, and keep all of us accountable. In all of these cases, we would check our aspirations against the aspirations of other communities to ensure that our model of liberation does not become the model of oppression for others.'

http://www.cpt.org/files/Undoi...lars%20-%20Smith.pdf

 

United we stand, divided we remain fallen. The truth will set us free! 

 

Well considered and good food for thought.

'We guestimate that scholars and historians do not even know 10% of total African history. With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10%.'

-African Holocaust Society

***********************************************************************

 

"Guestimate"?

 

And shouldn't that be "With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10% Now.'  Because we don't know what the average African knew before 3,000 years of constant invasions, war and conquest against the Black race. 

 

 @ Brotha Jalil......please whatever YOU do?  Don't be dissuade.  Continue to stand in YOUR truth.  There is a history on this board of those who think they KNOW it all but not enough to HELP their own people. They will fight tooth and nail to tell both massa versions of the truth regarding slavery.  And will insult any black person who think outside of that.  Sound familiar? 

 

I've been on this board for several years and have fought and debated with almost everyone who arrogantly TRIED to dismiss my knowledge to grand stand their own as if somehow someway theirs was FACT and mine conjecture but it NEVER stopped me nor will it ever stop me for THINKING for myself no matter how many LINKS they provide to susbstantiate[sp]   their version of the truth...cuz those links?  Are in fact someone else's version, OPINION, conjecture.....and not evidence or fact. 

 

These folks will continue to DISRESPECT you and try to minimize your knowledge just like massa has taught them,   There is a word back in the day to define such behavior.  Pleassssssssssse don't  give these FOOLS that power.  Your graciousness inspires me cuz unlike them you give them much respect....they REALLY don't deserve?   They are brainwashed bullies and egocentrics who have a blind eye to the truth.  This conditioning causes them to not being able to recognize the [authentic] truth if it SLAPPED them right in the face.  Testimony is how they can ignore the suffering of black people today.   

 

As I stated many times, my father was a Black Muslim, my mom a Christian. So you can image the various information and heated arguments that were thrown against the wall in that household regarding whose God is the real God and etc and why we were in slavery.  So I'm used to this sort of self-destruction campaign of distraction from black people. Again...please don't let 'em wear you down. Cuz they will try.  Please know that it is NOTHING more than a smoke screen.  

 

 As you can see with me?  I don't give damn what they say.  Cuz its just lip service and is testimony that we as black people will continue to believe in the primitive mindset that has kept us in mental bondage for thousands of years. Some of these folks will continue to fight for massa and NOT their own people.  And really?  There's something very troubling about that....but!  Thank God there are black people over the centuries who thought outside of massas' slave book and demanded and got FREEDOM.  If we are to listen to fools like this?  We all would still be slaves.  

 

So in closing my brotha I want to welcome you and your stimulating point of view to the board-it's like a breath of fresh air.  We need more new ideas and perspectives up in this camp.  Cuz it's gettin old listening to the same old backward azz dogma that continues to keep black people in Africa.....slaves and captives in their own continent.  But!   

.     .  

Sista Sunnubian wrote:  

"Guestimate"?

 

And shouldn't that be "With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10% Now.'  Because we don't know what the average African knew before 3,000 years of constant invasions, war and conquest against the Black race.

 

  That's right my sista!  Stand in your TRUTH!   We must continue to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX of slavery.  Otherwise...this self-defeating mindset will keep going on for another 5 thousand years.  But!

Originally Posted by sunnubian:

'We guestimate that scholars and historians do not even know 10% of total African history. With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10%.'

-African Holocaust Society

***********************************************************************

 

"Guestimate"?

 

And shouldn't that be "With the average African knowing 0.1% of that 10% Now.'  Because we don't know what the average African knew before 3,000 years of constant invasions, war and conquest against the Black race. 

 

 

Yes, the quote is in reference to the people now, not eons ago. 

Originally Posted by Kocolicious:

 @ Brotha Jalil......please whatever YOU do?  Don't be dissuade.  Continue to stand in YOUR truth.  There is a history on this board of those who think they KNOW it all but not enough to HELP their own people. They will fight tooth and nail to tell both massa versions of the truth regarding slavery.  And will insult any black person who think outside of that.  Sound familiar? 

 

I've been on this board for several years and have fought and debated with almost everyone who arrogantly TRIED to dismiss my knowledge to grand stand their own as if somehow someway theirs was FACT and mine conjecture but it NEVER stopped me nor will it ever stop me for THINKING for myself no matter how many LINKS they provide to susbstantiate[sp]   their version of the truth...cuz those links?  Are in fact someone else's version, OPINION, conjecture.....and not evidence or fact. 

 

These folks will continue to DISRESPECT you and try to minimize your knowledge just like massa has taught them,   There is a word back in the day to define such behavior.  Pleassssssssssse don't  give these FOOLS that power.  Your graciousness inspires me cuz unlike them you give them much respect....they REALLY don't deserve?   They are brainwashed bullies and egocentrics who have a blind eye to the truth.  This conditioning causes them to not being able to recognize the [authentic] truth if it SLAPPED them right in the face.  Testimony is how they can ignore the suffering of black people today.   

 

As I stated many times, my father was a Black Muslim, my mom a Christian. So you can image the various information and heated arguments that were thrown against the wall in that household regarding whose God is the real God and etc and why we were in slavery.  So I'm used to this sort of self-destruction campaign of distraction from black people. Again...please don't let 'em wear you down. Cuz they will try.  Please know that it is NOTHING more than a smoke screen.  

 

 As you can see with me?  I don't give damn what they say.  Cuz its just lip service and is testimony that we as black people will continue to believe in the primitive mindset that has kept us in mental bondage for thousands of years. Some of these folks will continue to fight for massa and NOT their own people.  And really?  There's something very troubling about that....but!  Thank God there are black people over the centuries who thought outside of massas' slave book and demanded and got FREEDOM.  If we are to listen to fools like this?  We all would still be slaves.  

 

So in closing my brotha I want to welcome you and your stimulating point of view to the board-it's like a breath of fresh air.  We need more new ideas and perspectives up in this camp.  Cuz it's gettin old listening to the same old backward azz dogma that continues to keep black people in Africa.....slaves and captives in their own continent.  But!   

.     .  

 

I know this reply was intended for Jalil but the problem is that it was posted publicly, not in private. I am sure that it wasn't your intent to imply that I was arrogant for posting excerpts from the African Holocaust Society's web site (by black Africans, not massa), a Ghanian web site (by black Africans, not massa), and a paper written by a Native American (Cherokee) activist (not massa).

 

I made it a point to post links to articles that were unbiased and written by those who not only understand our plight but are living it. If those articles (by black Africans) were truly biased, they would have not stated that their fellow black Africans were (and still are) in the practice of enslaving their own. They would have omitted this fact altogether, and focused only on white European and white Arab enslavement of black Africans. If the Native American activist was truly biased, she would have focused only on the wrongs done to Native Americans, even by blacks in America, but she didn't. I found her article very interesting and unbiased. These are the type of articles I gravitate toward. None were opinions; they were facts with evidence to support them.

 

I am not brainwashed. My parents taught me the history of my people when I was a young child. It was not black history according to massa because it contradicted it. For this reason, I've never felt inferior to whites because I know them and their (hidden, true) history. I even know which tribe my ancestors belonged to on my mother's side because, like Alex Haley's family, some of our family history was taught down the line.

 

I am a very analytical person. It is my nature. I am not gullible. I don't swallow everything massa (or anyone) tells me, especially in regards to my people no matter where they are on this planet. I am not like some of my abysmally foolish and self-hating brothers and sisters who automatically dismiss any truth coming from their fellow black sister or brother but will accept the same truth if it comes out of massa's mouth. 

 

I am not on a self-destructive campaign. The only campaign I am on is to seek the truth and to share that truth with my people. Sometimes, the truth about ourselves is painful and unpleasant. We need to be honest and admit that we often treat one another badly. We are not saints. We are not perfect. Remember what happened in Rwanda between the Tutsi and Hutu?. Black Africans killing fellow Black Africans. Before Europeans and white Arabs stepped foot on African soil, there were black Africans killing one another in tribal conflicts.

 

Look at how we (black Americans) treat one another. Massa may be funneling drugs and guns into our communities but massa is not forcing us to use them against one another. Oftentimes, when I give a cheery hello to a fellow black sister (whom I have never met) in this near lily-white city I live in, the response I often receive is a dirty look or a roll of the eyes. Yet, these same black women would be quick to return the hello if I were white. We are seriously deluded if we don't believe that part of the reason we are in this condition is because of us

 

I have not been disrespectful to anyone on this site (including you) for expressing an opinion that differed from mine except the banned racist but only after he had annoyed me greatly. I make it a point to be respectful to my people, even when I disagree with them. If being disrespectful means simply not agreeing with someone else's viewpoint or opinion then I am guilty as charged. But like I said, I am an analytical person (science is my forte) by nature, so I am bound to disagree with an opinion that lacks facts or merit. 

 

I am not a bully. Not once have I jumped down anyone's throat or told anyone to shut up on this site (including you) for merely expressing an opinion that disagreed with mine. I did tell everyone on this site to ignore the racist, anti-President Obama homophobe that was haunting this site because he was being extremely disrespectful, insulting, and racist. If trying to put a stop to a racist's antics on a web site intended for black Americans makes me a bully then so be it.

 

I have not insulted (name-calling, etc.) anyone on this site (including you) for expressing a viewpoint or opinion that differed from mine except the racist and only after being provoked. In fact, on a thread similar to this one, I distinctly recall reminding everyone to be respectful of everyone's opinions even if they disagree

 

Again, I'm sure it was not your intent to imply that I am a brainwashed, primitive-thinking, self-destructive, insulting, arrogant, massa-loving, self-hating, disrespectful bully but that is exactly how your reply to Jalil came across.

Sista Earth and Sky wrote: Again, I'm sure it was not your intent to imply that I am a brainwashed, primitive-thinking, self-destructive, insulting, arrogant, massa-loving, self-hating, disrespectful bully but that is exactly how your reply to Jalil came across.

 

  My sista...I don't even KNOW you.  You've just been on this board a few weeks,  So if what I said to Brotha Jalil affects you?  I don't KNOW what to tell you.    But!

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