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Last week, the NAACP held its convention in Houston Texas and as in previous conventions, the focus is on racism in America and the continuing black struggle against white bigotry. Considering the fact that the Hyatt Regency and the Convention Center were used to hold the gathering, along with members staying at the Doubletree Inn and Marriott Hotels (as opposed to say....a Motel 6), you could say living it up at white owned luxury hotels is a funny way to fight racism and bigotry.

More to the point, you can make the case that racism and bigotry still exist in this country in spite of the magnificent gains in the black communty. Yet the last 40 or so years show monolithic support by blacks for the Democrat party and still today, instead of speaking of those magnificent gains and the wonderful life we all live in America, the unique opportunity of being an American citizen, the NAACP trashes American life, the Bush Administration, and still cries racism.

My questions to Democrats is....

(1) What must the Democrat party do to show black America it is not being taken for granted?

(2) Does the Democrat party have a role in increasing black representation in the congress?

(3) Do you feel the Democrat party should do more to have blacks on the national ticket, say a black president or vice president, or even a high cabinet position like Powell and Rice occupy?

(4) If you answer yes to #3, will this show the Democrat party's commitment to advancing the black community in return for said community's unwavering support?

I eagerly await your answers.

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quote:
Originally posted by B Bankins:

Considering the fact that the Hyatt Regency and the Convention Center were used to hold the gathering, along with members staying at the Doubletree Inn and Marriott Hotels (as opposed to say....a Motel 6), you could say living it up at white owned luxury hotels is a funny way to fight racism and bigotry.


The hotels that you mention are quite reasonable and far from luxury. With group discounts, I'd bet they aren't paying over $100/night. Nevertheless, I don't understand (at all) the connection in your mind between civil rights and hotel accommodations?

quote:
the NAACP trashes American life, the Bush Administration, and still cries racism.


The paragraph leading up to this quote sounds warped even for you B Bankins! smile You've acknowledged elsewhere that you believe that racism still exists. What problem do you have with them working to eradicate society of all discrimination? I heard Julian Bond's speach and heard no such "trashing".

quote:
(1) What must the Democrat party do to show black America it is not being taken for granted?


Maybe the question should be what is black America going to demand of the democratic party for its support? Isn't that how things work in politics?

quote:
(2) Does the Democrat party have a role in increasing black representation in the congress?


The democratic party is the only political platform that can bring blacks to Washington. Aside from the exiting Watts, do you see blacks there from any other party?

quote:
(3) Do you feel the Democrat party should do more to have blacks on the national ticket, say a black president or vice president, or even a high cabinet position like Powell and Rice occupy?


MBM and Kevin41 spoke to this succinctly. The bar has been raised, yes.

quote:
(4) If you answer yes to #3, will this show the Democrat party's commitment to advancing the black community in return for said community's unwavering support?


There is no "unwavering" support. This is a myth of the far right to cover their own abysmal inadequacies. (Why do black people buy into this garbage?) The only thing that is "unwavering" is the failure of the republican party to make ANY inroads into the black community? If you were really sincere, wouldn't you be directing frustration at your party for their failure to talk to your community? When republicans offer something attractive, blacks will vote for it. Believe that!:)

[This message was edited by LibDem on July 17, 2002 at 09:02 AM.]
Thanks for responding LibDem. Sorry to take so long to reply, but it's been a busy week. I'll address the rest of your responses in the next post, but this quote from you here must be answered.......

quote:
The paragraph leading up to this quote sounds warped even for you B Bankins! You've acknowledged elsewhere that you believe that racism still exists. What problem do you have with them working to eradicate society of all discrimination? I heard Julian Bond's speach and heard no such "trashing".


Julian Bond's speech goes thru the same theme year after luxury hotel sponsored year at the NAACP conventions.....America is evil and racist toward blacks, the White power structure keeps blacks in bondage....et,.

This is not working to eradicate society ills. It's just the NAACP bringing down American society and ignoring the magnificent gains we have made as black Americans. The NAACP is losing relevance along with membership and is using the "racism" scare tactic to stay alive in 2002.

But you say you heard Bond's speech. You say there "was no such trashing". Here are some samples of that speech followed by a link to the full speech........

"...The world doesn't need more weapons and walls; it needs less intolerance, ignorance, and disease. We don't need more tax cuts; we need fewer tax cheats in corporate suites.

The police and intelligence agencies don't need more powers; they need more professionalism.

But we are seeing freedom shrink and fear expand.

We have a President who owes his election more to a dynasty than to democracy. When he spoke to our convention in Baltimore in 2000, he promised to enforce the civil rights laws. We knew he was in the oil business – we just didn't know it was snake oil.

We have an Attorney General who is a cross between J. Edgar Hoover and Jerry Falwell.

And too often one political party is shameless and the other is spineless.

The CIA and the FBI kept files on me in the 1960s; they may be keeping files on me today. But while they watched and followed and photographed and wiretapped those of us working nonviolently in the freedom movement, a wave of white terrorism was sweeping across the South nearly unchallenged. It has taken 40 years to bring a pitiful few of the terrorists of that period to justice.

American white men commit most domestic, homegrown terrorism – does the name Timothy McVeigh ring a bell? Or what about racially profiling white male multi-millionaires like Houston's own ˜Kenny-boy' Lay or the executives of WorldCom or Tyco?

We know all about crime in the streets – who's protecting us from crime in the suites?

While the Administration is busy asserting sweeping police powers over the American people, it is sweeping voting rights violations from the 2000 election under the rug.

The Justice Department whittled eleven thousand election complaints down to five potential lawsuits, including a mere three in Florida.

Those focus on Florida's failure to provide language assistance to Spanish- and Creole-speaking voters in three counties...."
http://athena.tbwt.com/content/article.asp?articleid=1146

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quote:
Originally posted by LibDem...
The hotels that you mention are quite reasonable and far from luxury. With group discounts, I'd bet they aren't paying over $100/night. Nevertheless, I don't understand (at all) the connection in your mind between civil rights and hotel accommodations?


The Hyatt, Marriott, "far from luxury"?? Man, you are quite the jokester. Nonetheless, group rates aside, I have a hard time imagining W.E.B. DuBois, Frederick Douglass, or even Nelson Mandella fighting for civil rights in chauffeured limos to and from Houston's luxury hotels and convention center. The NAACP does it in style!

quote:
Originally posted by LibDem...
The democratic party is the only political platform that can bring blacks to Washington. Aside from the exiting Watts, do you see blacks there from any other party?


Blacks soundly reject any party other than Democrats. How can other political parties serve the black community if they don't have the chance? Since monolithic support for the last 60 years has been to Democrats, why so few black faces in congress? Don't evade the issue, face it head on!!

quote:
Originally posted by LibDem...
There is no "unwavering" support. This is a myth of the far right to cover their own abysmal inadequacies. (Why do black people buy into this garbage?) The only thing that is "unwavering" is the failure of the republican party to make ANY inroads into the black community? If you were really sincere, wouldn't you be directing frustration at your party for their failure to talk to your community? When republicans offer something attractive, blacks will vote for it. Believe that!:)


Again, refusing to directly address the question. Blacks vote Democrat or stay home-FACT!! If you can't even admit this, then you are the one who's being insincere.

Yes, the black voting block should be taken seriously, and provides a fresh new source for the GOP mining for gold. But understand as more blacks enter the middle class and higher, it is that portion of the black community that needs the Democrats less than the Democrat party needs them.

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quote:

Originally posted by B Bankins:

I have a hard time imagining W.E.B. DuBois, Frederick Douglass, or even Nelson Mandella fighting for civil rights in chauffeured limos to and from Houston's luxury hotels and convention center. The NAACP does it in style!


With all due respect, perhaps this perception is at the core of your affinity to the Republican party. They do not meet at 5 star properties like the Ritz or Four Seasons. Further, do you think Motel 6 has a ballroom?

Why is it that you seem to equate civil rights with squalor?

Why is it that you cannot fathom discussing how to make this country a better place without becoming self-righteous and believing someone is unfairly attacking it?

How does anything evolve without focusing energy on those things that need improvement?

quote:
How can other political parties serve the black community if they don't have the chance?


The entire argument about "monolithic" support is illogical and defies human behavior. People vote for things in their best interest. Unless you think we are incapable of identifying what is in our best interest, then you really should direct your frustration at your Republicans who (at best) ignore your community. Why don't you analyze what it is about your party that makes them so unattractive to black people. Perhaps you can offer insight that can change things.


quote:
Blacks vote Democrat or stay home-FACT!! If you can't even admit this, then you are the one who's being insincere.


Why do you blame everyone BUT the responsible group for this. This is like you blaming the Lakers and fans for the Clippers being a sorry franchise. In the end, your argument is a huge "cop-out"; until conservatives stop regurgitating it and actually try to earn the balck vote - NOTHING will change.

quote:
But understand as more blacks enter the middle class and higher, it is that portion of the black community that needs the Democrats less than the Democrat party needs them.


So why don't we see more efforts from Republicans to court us?

[This message was edited by LibDem on July 19, 2002 at 09:04 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by LibDem:
What, exactly, do you find objectionable about what you quoted? Bond is right on.


I don't really have a lot of love for either party, B.Bankins, so I think I'm usually pretty balanced in the way I assess these cross-party arguments. I would like to see blacks become a little less monolithic in their voting patterns, and there are a lot of reasons for the way things are.

But I have to say, the portions of Julian Bond's speech that you reproduced here don't seem to live up to your billing. I agree with most of what he says, actually. The obvious party politics are present in it, but I've heard worse from both sides. Political speeches have a certain number of barbs directed at the other side. This was a political speech, and Bond's statements were pretty much par for the course.

Now, on the Republican side, we have people like Sean Hannity, who earlier this week actually blamed the current corporate accounting scandals -- and the falling stock market that results from it -- on Bill Clinton, because Clinton's scandals created a culture of deceit that influenced previously honest corporate directors down the wrong path.

I'll have to see something from Julian Bond at LEAST as ridiculous as that (and preferably on a nationally broadcast daily radio program) before criticisms like yours can sound honestly considered.
I read THIS article yesterday. And today, I decided to go to the NAACP site and listen to Mfume's entire speech at the 93rd Convention; which, by the way, was quite good overall. Anyway, if you decide to check it out it's: Freedom Under Fire, and then Mon. July 8th, Complete Plenary Session. If you just want to skip to Mfume's speech (as I did), it starts at about 1:14:00- 1:41:00.

[This message was edited by BrownEyedGirl on July 19, 2002 at 01:31 PM.]
Mr. Bankins, why do you think black people vote Democrat at any given time?

Voter apathy? Deception? Ignorance? Most of us have these afflictions?

For myself, I'm unlikely to vote Republican because:

1) This hijacking by the Religious Right seems to have turned their brains off. That Republicans actually seem to think things like this:

quote:
Clinton's scandals created a culture of deceit that influenced previously honest corporate directors down the wrong path.


Makes me nervous. Vox may have meant the statement as sarcasm, but I don't think he could be sued for libel. I wish the Republicans would come right out and say they believe we are sheep following the Judas goat down the primrose path...

2) They are against (most of them) things I stand for. I like reproductive rights, for example. And some Republicans, e.g. Colin Powell, support them too. Yet the fact that other Republicans, the ones in Congress, look for ways to ban it tells me they don't have a clue, and aren't trying to.

3) On some issues I might agree with them, but I have too many points of disagreement with them on others. See, I would do away with welfare for all but the the disasbled. I'm not impressed with the work ethic of people who have ever been on the dole, I think being on it ultimately does more harm than good to that person, and the society they live in. Yet, choosing to demonize the black community, and the Hispanic community when they could have wandered through any trailer park for their examples wink tells me what they think of us.

4) Roast the Susan Sontag types. Have at it. But make room for the Ann Coulters on that spit, too, and I might be reassured that she isn't speaking for the Right, or Conservatives, or Republicans (RCR). So she was dropped from National Review--they say it was her idea--but I would rather have seen someone confront, engage, and discredit her than simply ignore her. When I say someone, I mean someone from the RCR.

I could go on. But the point is that I don't trust them, and they aren't making any effort to get me to trust them.
Thanks to BrownEyedGirl, Vox and Lea for adding their sincere responses. I could write a book answering the comments by the three of you (LibDem, Vox, Lea).

Suffice to say, this shows the success of the Left in demonizing the GOP and conservatives, and the inability of the GOP politicians to counter those misconceptions. I say GOP politicians because they have the task of being re-elected to office.

I called this topic "the Democrat Challenge" because I wanted to see if blacks had a reason to vote and support Dems. What I got so far are reasons to vote against the GOP, and I find that very interesting. It means the Democrat Party cannot give you a viable reason to support them other than the promise of more government that preys on the selfishness of all people (gimme, gimme), and to vote against the GOP.

A While back, Whoop asked would you feel better if black conservatives supported the Libertarian party. There was no response from anyone, probably because liberal Democrats have not programmed you to hate Libertarians, only the GOP.

Imo, it's more about your political philosophy and what party comes the closest to supporting those beliefs. Neither the Dems or GOP are trying to erode your civil rights or return this country back to the Jim Crow days. Neither party is forcing any religious belief or doctrine on you. You are free to be as hedonistic or paganistic as you desire, so long as you are not hurting others.

I'm conservative first, and damn proud to be one. I want to see the U.S. Constitution preserved intact as the Founding Fathers intented. The key word here is "preserved". That means not only do I wish to continue to live in a free and open society, but I want to "preserve" that free society for future generations of black Americans who'll never, ever, experience a tyrannical government that confiscates wealth and property and redistributes it, while slicing off a cut for itself.

More on this theme in the next post, and I (attempt to) answer Vox and LIbDem's question on the Bond speech.

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[This message was edited by B Bankins on July 20, 2002 at 03:04 AM.]
quote:
Originally posted by Lea:

quote:
Clinton's scandals created a culture of deceit that influenced previously honest corporate directors down the wrong path.


Makes me nervous. Vox may have meant the statement as sarcasm, but I don't think he could be sued for libel.


No, actually, he literally said it. He had a caller who blamed Clinton for "pushing" stocks whose price/earnings ratios were already out of balance. Hannity kind of poo-pooed that remark, but did literally say that Clinton's dishonesty is what encouraged the current corporate dishonesty.
Both LibDem and Vox agree with Julian Bond's speech and are puzzled about what I find troubling about it.

Vox is correct that the speech was a political one, and it was clearly designed to rally the hardcore liberal rank and file membership. Certainly nothing wrong with that.

But to call John Ashcroft a cross between the late FBI chief Hoover and Jerry Falwell?? To have onstage flashbacks of FBI keeping files and watching his every move since the 60's??? To accuse Bush of not enforcing civil rights and running a police state??? To use the current corporate scandals to demonize big business, and to refer to the Bush presidency as more of a Dynasty, thus taking potshots at the wealthy Bush family, once again bringing on the class envy!!

And what about this line....

"..The world doesn't need more weapons and walls; it needs less intolerance, ignorance, and disease. We don't need more tax cuts; we need fewer tax cheats in corporate suites..."

I recall Europe didn't have enough "weapons and walls", and when the Nazi's came there was plenty of "intolerance, ignorance, and disease". Maybe Julian Bond doesn't need a tax cut and likes to have his money sitting in Washington stumping his net worth, I sure as hell want mine, thank you!!

To me this is far more ridiculous than any statement from Hannity!

Vox, this is one of those times we disagree, and I know you don't take sides, or care much for the Left vs Right battles. I'm very troubled about this kind of rabble rousing from what used to be the most significant civil rights group in America. The NAACP claims not to endorse either political party and enjoys a tax-exempt status, but we know full well they walk in locked steps with the Democrat party and Bond (surprise, surprise) never criticized anyone from the Democrat party, only "evil" Republicans.

He even went so far as to link the Bush Administration with a "Right wing conspiracy" waging an assault on Affirmative Action and other gains in the black community. BrownEyedGirl's link to my hometown newspaper's website-the article by Gregory Kane outlines this.

There was nothing uplifting or positve about Bond's speech. It was extremely hypocritical to bash big businesses and corporations when it wasn't so long ago when Benjamin Chavis was guilty of some of those corporate misdeeds as head of the NAACP.

But who really cares? No matter how far Left your politics are, you are considered "in touch" and speaking the truth about the state of affairs in this country. But dare to voice a different view, then you are a zealous Right winger out of touch with reality and want to turn back the clock on civil rights.

Someday, people will wake up. That's where I come in.

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