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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
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Originally posted by Black Viking:
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Originally posted by keylargo:
because many of them do not care because they don't plan on stickin around long enough anyways even if she does get pregnant. they feel like it's not their problem.

It is completely unreasonable, IMO, to assume that any planning was going on at all. If anyone was doing any planning, then no one would be in this mess.

Sexual responsibilty is everyone's responsibilty. All this finger pointing accomplishes nothing. It's your choice because it's your body. So, make wise choices and protect your body.


This, for me, says it all... and applies to everyone involved (of both genders)

excuse me but if you look, you will see that I never said that women bore no responsibility in this. I said men were just as responsible and are even more responsible for this problem if they don't bother to participate in raising the child.
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Originally posted by virtue:
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Originally posted by keylargo:
why is no one talking about what to do after the baby comes into the world?



IMO the situation is very varied and complex....

a generalization would not do any real justice or serve any purpose except to bring out every exception to the rule and argue on the finer points......

that said....

every case is different.... I learned that after reading cases..... hearing about them on t.v. and changing my mind completely after meeting with young women (in particular) who face this challenge...... and I have learned to place their humanity and lack of training in perspective to my judgment of them, the men they sleep with and focus on the child.....

in some cases, it is not healthy to have the man there..... because of violence, drugs or emotional abuse to either or both the mother and child......

in some cases, the mother is blinded by her own slowness to mature and understand her responsibility and keeps the child from the father...... and more than pointing the finger at her is required for there to be understanding and peace established...... so that there is a working relationship between both parents for the child's benefit.....

in some cases the father runs away.... sometimes out of fear, lack of support, immaturity or callousness...... in either case the method by which one helps this father understand his responsibility varies and there are many groups with different approaches that work in varying degrees..... but they are often all male groups that help out the MIA father.........

in some cases the mother is a complete nut and the child needs to be removed from her care..... or she marries a nut and refuses to place the care of her child over the need for a nut in her life..... (which again makes her a nut).......

why does no one address these? because right now in this thread there seems to be a need to place blame on a specific gender.....

or an inability to tackle all of the differing issues that are incurred with this line of questioning.....


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I applaud any single mom that attempts to raise a child. Where are the men that helped to create the child?

Please see above....


Peace,
Virtue

I agree that situations are different and there are many other reasons that are not being addressed. The problem I have is with men that don't even try.
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Originally posted by Shango67:
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Where are the men that helped to create the child?

Usually working two or three jobs to get out from underneath an oppressive child support enforcement order.

come on... Black women make it IMPOSSIBLE to participate in raising children when the family is split apart. Bitterness, wrath, anger, hurt, pain, vindictiveness usually encourage sistas to make the wrong decisions when it comes to writing off and alienating dad. And I have some reccomendations that I believe can dead this issue.

1) Do away with the concecpt of "primary physical custody" and give men the opportunity to raise their children - especially boys - on their own.

2) Reform Child Support laws and replace monetary consideration with a "Father Involvement Incentive" program. Under this initiative, involved fathers would see a reduction in the financial obligation to the mother based upon time spent with the children. The more time spent with the child, the more raising he does, the more school trips he attends, the more doctors appointments mades, more meals cooked, more emotional bonding... child support payments are reduced.

3) No more mandatory custody for Black women with Black boys. Black men should be legally compelled to make a home for their boys with mom having as much visitation as she wants.

This can go a long way for creating social change in the Black dommunity when staying together as a couple is not an option.

you make some valid points here. again, the problem I have is with men that don't even TRY to be a parent.
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The other thing is that spending time with the child, although important, does not alone help with the costs of raising a child. A man shouldn't be able to waive his financial obligations just because he went to a certain number of field trips and doctors appointments.

Black Viking... Please. Of course. Number 2 was off the top of my head. I was speaking to how you encourage fathers to be involved with their children as I think there is a correlation between being forced to pay support and parental involvement. I have custody of my son and his mother is financially and emotionally absent. No clothes, no money, no help, no nothing.

What keeps her absent? The same thing that prevents men from being with their children... it is an issue of CONTROL. The act of being FORCED to pay support is another one of the reasons why men stay away - especially brothers. Moreover, I have no problem with men providing financial support but there should be some type of transparency to the proess... that is to say... the parent who gets the support should be compelled to show that the money actually goes directly to the cost of raising children.
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Originally posted by keylargo:
excuse me but if you look, you will see that I never said that women bore no responsibility in this. I said men were just as responsible and are even more responsible for this problem if they don't bother to participate in raising the child.


Look... Here are some facts:

1. Though both women and men share fault with the sexual irresponsibility that results in children who are not properly provided for, women take the greatest impact/burden from the birth of a child - right or wrong... we all seem to agree this unfortunately is how things work...

2. Who are the people who are most vocally expressing frustration with this situation? The women...of course! ... Those aside from the children who are most harmed...

3. Deadbeat Dads are almost by definition absent from this discussion. I.e., The irresponsible guys who conceive children they don't provide for ARE NOT COMPLAINING. Although they are perhaps morally reprehensible, this discussion is not reaching their ears. Neither are they materially inconvenienced by any of this... and perhaps that suits them fine...

4. Seems to me that the men who are involved in this discussion are almost by definition responsible men. The poster of these comments, for example, is childless by choice. I.e., We aren't the problem. And it makes no sense for us to browbeat one another for behavior which (as far as I know) we're not guilty of...

5. If every sexually active woman of child bearing age was on birth control we wouldn't be having this discussion.


What conclusion(s) do you reach?
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Did you know I was a family attorney when you started to talk about what the law is.... Guess not but let's deal with the merits shall we.
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Originally posted by Shango67:

1) The "Tender Years Doctorine" is not gone... it is there in spirit... and most definately practiced. And their are PLENTY of men who fight for custody - epecially in divorce cases.


(a)I must disagree, and since I am admitted in NY I know for a fact that it is not there. Most of my clients are men, all who have listened to me have gotten joint physical custody of thier children. Especially in divorce.



2) What Black man isn't afraid to go into court and speak - especially in FAMILY COURT? An how many brothers can afford legal counsel?

(b)If he had acted first he would not be afraid, most men go to Family Court as the defendant, and thus need to defend themselves, since 45% of my clients are Black men, and the run the gamut of professions from the guy who put your bags on the airplane to attorneys, money is not the issue, it is the willingness to spend money that is the issue.

3) I had to fight for my son for two and half years in an attempt to rescue him from a potentially serious situation, so I don't have to consult Gambit. The court was all in my ass. They wanted W2 forms, old and current tax returns, pay stubs, college transcripts, bank account records, lease agreement, and everything else. Also, the court appointed an investigator who came to my home, whenever she wanted, to inspect my property. COUNTLESS visits from the Law Guardian (the attorney appointed by the court who acts in the best interest of the child). The court even sends people to your place of employment to interview co-workers and management. "Have you ever seen Mr. Shango get angry? Does he drink or do drugs? How is his overall deameanor? Does he socialize outside of work? Have you been to his home? Is he competent in his job?" And let's not forget the five different psychological exams conducted by an array of mental health professionals - only then to submit a report to the judge based upon a 30 minute session.


(c) I have worked with Law Guardian before, in both cases I represented women who were the defendant, both left the kid with the father when they split for various reasons. You should have asked for another one if it was a 30 minute interview, my Law Guardians met with everybody multiple times, but this was Long Island. My point, status quo is the word of the day in Family Court. If you left your son with his shakie moma then that was status quo you need to prove that the kid was in danger, not just with her and she was crazy, but that her craziness was a danger to the kid.

I did win... not on my merit, but on the fact that the process broke her down and she refused to attend the trial. A year later she appealed. The first process busted the bank and I had to write the appeal myself (appeal lawyers are more expensive than trail attorneys. I spent days and nights searching Westlaw and Lexis - looking up cases, answering legal questions put to me in her attorney's application. The cost for transcripts alone were outrageous. And to top it off... the appellate court assigned her an appellate lawyer for FREE. Then I had to travel to Albany to defend myself, in front of the appellate panet, against her attorney who does this shit for a living.

(d) Yes, she is entitled to an attorney for free in NY because unlike NJ [where you each have to pay for counsel unless it is a termination of parental rights case, then you get the appointment of counsel] but that is changing, poverty is not a factor in deciding custody,

4) Nikcara... Black men who get custody of their children is not the norm. And it certainly isn't wise to take a child from a mother absent a court order, under the pretense of thinking it will go over well with the police department or the judge in family court. This is still a white only nation and Black men pulling that kind of jack move will head toward a criminal charge and start you off on the wrong foot with the family court judge.


(d)If the kid lives with you and the mom and you leave, why could you not take your kid? The police only give the kid to the person who has the Court Order, aka paper. If there is no paper how do the police pick one parent over the other. Women leave and take the kids all the time, I had a client whose ex-wife left with the kids, sons no less, I got him full custody....anyway.... Oh, and thanks for saying that appeal attorneys are more expensive than trial attorneys appl, are you reading this VOX!

I am a trial attorney by the way and we do think differently and have different skills. Anyway, I disagree, my clients get their kids, normally 50/50 custody, maybe you had the wrong attorney..... When I sit in court, I listen to men giving away thier kids all the time. They left the kid with the mother and now status quo is that the kid stays with the mom, unless you can show out right detriment you are not getting 100% custody. That is rare for men, and I will agree to that, but if he is normal and she is normal, both are entitled and I regularly obtain, join physical and legal for my clients, so I disagree with you on what is the norm. Maybe 10 years ago yes, but now shared parenting has been proven to be best for the kids, and they are what should be the focus of the parents and are the focus of the courts.
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
It takes 2 to tango


I'm tired of this bullshit that depicts the black woman as the unquestioned ultimate racial victim.. It is BULLSHIT

We really shouldn't scream on each other. We are all victims. The love that we had as black women for our men and vice versa is being attack by white society, and it doesn't help by putting the blame on each other. We are both at fault. Yes Brothers need to become more envolved with the raising of our children, And yes many many sisters- although the job of raising our children is left in our hands- are doing a horible job at raising our children. It hurts me to admit it but the values of black women are deteriorating, and we can ill afford that. The first teacher that a child has is a woman.

This is where they are beginning their(white Society) new attack. On the black woman.What better way to further destroy the fabric of the African society.
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Originally posted by shesheta:
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
It takes 2 to tango


I'm tired of this bullshit that depicts the black woman as the unquestioned ultimate racial victim.. It is BULLSHIT

We really shouldn't scream on each other. We are all victims. The love that we had as black women for our men and vice versa is being attack by white society, and it doesn't help by putting the blame on each other. We are both at fault. Yes Brothers need to become more envolved with the raising of our children, And yes many many sisters- although the job of raising our children is left in our hands- are doing a horible job at raising our children. It hurts me to admit it but the values of black women are deteriorating, and we can ill afford that. The first teacher that a child has is a woman.

This is where they are beginning their(white Society) new attack. On the black woman.What better way to further destroy the fabric of the African society.


Hmmmmm....

I like you Shesheta....

Please stay.....

Welcome to the board.... wel



Peace,
Virtue
Peace...

Sisters...There is a difference between a man..and a boy trapped in a man's body.

A boy will help produce children and refuse to be there to raise them..

A boy must be sued for support, a man will demand the opportunity.

When you are lonely, and confused, you may see a boy, and mistake him for a man...This manboy is a clever breed..They have one real aim...and they have already planned their escape far in advance...

Sisters, once you realize that you have been duped, the wrong response is to blame "Black men"...This is not a problem among men, this is a problem perpetuated by children posing as adults.

Are these boy/men at fault??? Of course...However, they are children so what do you expect?

Are the women at fault as well? Yes...Because if the sisters are honest they will admnit that they knew that they were sharing their body with a boy trapped in a man's body...They knew this beforehand...But it just felt so good...

Real men are not to blame...

Some of our poor sisters have multiple baby daddies...

The first time you steal from me, shame on you...the next time..shame on me for not protecting myself..

I am not relieving manboy of his culpability in any way...Manboy is a problem that real men must address...I am simply saying sister that you know this childman when you meet him...You deceive yourself as it relates to him because having him is better than nothing..Or so it seemed.


Kai
quote:
Manboy is a problem that real men must address


I didn't see any comment about the mothers of these menboys. I have two older sisters and watched some of the incompetence of what they called raising kids. And of course had to put up with my mothers.

Women that want men that are dummies who are dummies who can be manipulated also figures into it.

umbrarchist
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Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
Manboy is a problem that real men must address


I didn't see any comment about the mothers of these menboys. I have two older sisters and watched some of the incompetence of what they called raising kids. And of course had to put up with my mothers.

Women that want men that are dummies who are dummies who can be manipulated also figures into it.

umbrarchist


A woman cannot raise a man without help from a man. The help must come from somewhere...An uncle, grandfather, Neighbor...Somewhere...

This is what I mean when I say that this is a problem which must be addressed by men...Steel sharpens steel, and men sharpen men...

A boy will be suspended in growth without this Man, not just male, Man influence in his life...

A grown man wants to claim something which belongs to him...This is the major difference between the black community and every other community anywhere...They all want to claim something, to name something, to own something..They want to raise their children..They look forward to the next generation of men and women walking along the path they have laboured upon....This is the basis of community development.

Our people were never conditioned like that in this country..We were never taught how to build a family..That was not a requisite trait of a slave..We were breeders, not fathers.....

The current paradigm in our community is the residue of slavery...

Real men who have shaken off this yoke, are now responsible for engaging this struggle, and correcting a flaw in our community which extends back into our arrival on these shores as a people.

If we do not correct the problem who will?



Kai
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Did you know I was a family attorney when you started to talk about what the law is.... Guess not but let's deal with the merits shall we.


I hear the same thing from friends that practice law. But I have heard and seen what Shango talks about. The courst favor the mothers. And you would have to prove the mother to be a axe murder before they give the father sole custody. And what does "joint custody" mean? Does that mean the child stays with the mother for half the week and with the father the other half? I could be wrong but that usually means the child resides with the mother and the father sees them every other weekend and mayebe a couple of weeks during the summer. That's not a lot of time. My brother-in-law is dealing with this. The mother is terrible and he has to try and undo the damage she causes with only weekend visits.
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Originally posted by Rowe:
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Originally posted by MBM:
Since there seems to be a serious problem with black men, and since many/most of these black men are growing up in homes parented just by black women - do the problems with black men really come from a crisis of African American motherhood? Are black women failing their children? Are they not preparing their boys to be men? Are they not preparing their girls to be mothers? Would African America really be much better off if black women got their "stuff" together? Confused

What do you think?


First, let me just say that a few us who frequent the Dating, Relationships, and Sexuality side of the board have been debating this very same topic over the last five months, incessantly. The sisters feel that quality Black men are scarce and the brothers feel that sisters are not making quality choices. Unfortunately, the debate is now at a stand still. However, I think the solution is ultimately an interdependent one. When there are more brothers who are financially capable (and willing) to be parents in impoverished communities, more women residing in these communities will make better choices. Someone faulted Black women for having children by various different men, but such women represent extreme cases. What of single, educated women, having no children, and who have never gotten the opportunity to marry. Why do you suppose these successful women are still single and are experiencing difficulty finding suitable marriage partners within the Black community? Let's refocus our attention on that segment of the Black community, because they represent the majority.


These female in which you mention are the worst ones. They generally tend to be the worst listeners and have the worst attitudes. Physically, they are women, but mentally they are men. These are the women that complain about dead beat deads and sorry men, but they don't have a kid and they are single. Funny thing is this situation is not by choice. Men don't want to be with them because they don't know how to be quiet and they lack understanding. These women tend to be for self. I have dated many of these women. I have a daughter and I have legal custody of her (13 years). I make a couple of dollars but, in todays world the women you speak of want a man to drive a Mercede's and look like Denzel, or Tyson Beckford before they are willing to give him the time of day.

They want a pretty man with no future...then take what you get and stop complaining.
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Originally posted by Frenchy:
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It's like people that don't vote or do nothing to change policies. You don't get to complain if you don't participate in some way.

thanks Half of Black men are unemployed and almost 30% are in prison, but the only advice given is that women should take better advantage of contraceptives and abortions?! Is that a joke?? But "it's not about placing blame," right? I've yet to see a single man say anything to the high number of total wastes of space running around knocking up women left and right. But everybody and their mama has something to say about what sistas should do. Shut up. And some women fall right into that trap and buy into this junk. Blaming their own damn selves because a brotha took off. As usual. Jesus. stck

People keep phrasing it as if women need to take more responsibility for contraceptives and abortions. The women are NOT the ones who are running from the children they produce. The men are the ones who apparently feel so strongly about abandoning their own flesh and blood and all adult responsibility. Therefore, the MEN need to take the appropriate precautions and wear condoms, become celibate, throw themselves off a cliff, whatever they need to do. The women are making the best of it. The men are fucking gone. I should be vigilant about birth control and know all about abortions because there is a high probability that any Black man I take up with is going to run for the hills like a jackass at the slightest whiff of responsibility? Check yourselves. How can you all possibly continue to say that this entire thing is not totally letting Black men off the hook for some seriously fucked-up and longstanding behavior??!? That's pure nonsense.


I don't think this is about victim blaming or blaming perion. Let's be realistic for a second...Is it too much for a woman to ask a man if he has any kids, does he take care of his kids, how, does he have a legal job, what are his career goals, did he graduate from High School?

I think these few questions will allow many women the ability to sort out the majority of potential dead beats off the back. It is not fair that women should have to accept the majority of the pressure when it comes to a child, but the cliche is Momma's baby Daddy maybe.

There are many women who would love to ditch there kids, but the male ditches them first. A woman living in the projects, receiving welfare and handouts, and is not attempting to better herself to get out of the projects is not better than the sorry man that ditched her. She just merely baby sits the kid. This type of parent is not raising the child but is allowing the streets to raise the child and hence you have a potential multiple baby momma or a soon to be in prison daddy.

It does not matter who the burden of fault is on, but it does matter who accepts responsibility...and as long as the woman births the kids it is ultimately her responsibility to protect herself from potential sexual predators and dead beat dads.
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Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Frenchy, let me repeat this for you... I don't have kids... So I don't bear any personal responsibility for any of this shit...

I would love to have kids though - but instead I listen to women bitch about other men... The women in our lives??????? It seems that black women are too busy fucking around with losers... then want to blame the rest of us for their poor choices.... That's why we spend so much time bitching about black women...

Leave me the fuck alone...

And if you don't have the fucking sense to lock your doors at night, that's your problem

Wrong might be dead-ass wrong... but stupid is still dead-ass stupid...


That is so true HB...I have never fostered a bastard. I have a daughter in which I have legal custody and take care of everyday of her life. Her mom is the dead beat.

I understand that I have to be aware of my actions and attempt to make solid decisions with my daughter in mind. I attempt to teach my daughter the boys just want the draws and love is not the thing that attracts them. I tell her if she chooses to have sex (although I would prefer if she would wait) make sure to use protection and make the guy rent a hotel room. Making a guy rent a hotel room will tell a woman a lot about a man and his respect for her. If the guy never rents a room (if he doesn't have his own place, then the woman is just a piece of coochie.)

If the teens are still in High school...eh, just hope just hope they wrap it up.

I am not intentionally attempting to blame women, but someone has to say something, If I knew I could get pregnant and possibly left with a child, I would make any guy I had sex with wrap it up.
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I think the solution is ultimately an interdependent one.


I agree. I think men and women need to lean to be happy with who they are and with what they have. Stop worring about what we don't have and be thankful for what we do.

Just try to be the best person you can be mentally, spiritually, and physically.

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Physically, they are women, but mentally they are men.

ohsnap munch
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Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
I hear the same thing from friends that practice law. But I have heard and seen what Shango talks about. The courst favor the mothers. And you would have to prove the mother to be a axe murder before they give the father sole custody. And what does "joint custody" mean? Does that mean the child stays with the mother for half the week and with the father the other half? I could be wrong but that usually means the child resides with the mother and the father sees them every other weekend and mayebe a couple of weeks during the summer. That's not a lot of time. My brother-in-law is dealing with this. The mother is terrible and he has to try and undo the damage she causes with only weekend visits.


In New Jersey, where I practice the most we have Joint Legal, Joint Physical and Legal aka Joint Custody or Sole Custody.

Joint Legal means that the child lives with one parent primarily,that parent is called the Parent of Primary Residence [PPR] the other parent is called Parent of Alternate Residence [PAR]. This is the old standby of custody that most men give a way. Mother is PPR and has child monday~friday, dad gets kid every other weekend usually from friday after school until sunday at 5 or 6 pm. Sometimes the othe parent gets the kid during the week for one overnight or some dinners with return to PPR home at night. Both parents have the right to attend school conferences and doctor visits. If there is a crisis, eihter parent can make a medical decision, but if it is a non emergency event such as a hospitialzation, PPR decision control but "PAR" views are to be taken into consideration. If PAR disagrees with PPR's decision on hospitilization, then PAR can bring an Order to Show Cause to stop what PPR is doing, if there is time. Kid goes to school that is in PPR's district or if the court approves private school then PPR get to pick the school. PAR usually has to pay child support to PPR.

Joint Physical and Legal means that the kid/s lives with both parent on a rotating schedule it can be 60/40 or 50/50. Kids can rotate every two days or once a week. My preference is once a week. Neither parent can make a decision on medical treatment without the express consent of the other party unless there is an emergency then that parent can make the decision. Both parents have the right to attend school conferences and doctor visits and usually school send information to both houses. Kid can go to either school district but court usually pick one unless the kid goes to private school.If parties income are relatively equal usually there is not child support paid to either party, if there is a big discrepancy in income, it is prorated and the person with the greater income pays the other party.

Sole Custody, on person makes all the decisions, other parent may get to see the child everyother weekend. Non-custodial parent has no right to school information but may get it and no right to doctor visits but may be albe to attend and cannot make emergency decisions for medical treatment. This is the worst thing that can ever happen to a parent short of termination of parental right.

I remember us discussing your brother in law in another thread. He really needs to get an attorney to represent his interest, if she is living in the projects and he has a house with a room for the kid then he can argue that the burbs are better than the projects and demonstrate how his school system is better than the one the mother has the kid going to and that can be proved with the school report card. The reason I know that this stratege works is because I have used it.
quote:
remember us discussing your brother in law in another thread. He really needs to get an attorney to represent his interest, if she is living in the projects and he has a house with a room for the kid then he can argue that the burbs are better than the projects and demonstrate how his school system is better than the one the mother has the kid going to and that can be proved with the school report card. The reason I know that this stratege works is because I have used it.


Right now I think he is happy to be past the divorce. He gets the kids every other weekend but deals with baby mamma drama
quote:
A woman cannot raise a man without help from a man. The help must come from somewhere...An uncle, grandfather, Neighbor...Somewhere...

This is what I mean when I say that this is a problem which must be addressed by men...Steel sharpens steel, and men sharpen men...

A boy will be suspended in growth without this Man, not just male, Man influence in his life...


I had some rather strange conversations with a Black man a couple of years ago. We would talk over chess games. He ended up telling me that I didn't have a childhood. Now this dude would insist on playing chess with me and get angry if I wasn't in the mood but he would also get pissed off when I beat him. I won more than 75% of the time. He would say again and again, "I hate to lose." And keep coming back to play me.

He told me about getting turned down for a job because of his criminal record. He was 41 years old and had spent 10 years of his life in jail or prison. If he was telling me the truth about his career he made more money selling drugs in Atlanta in a year then I made in 4 or 5. Of course when I met him he didn't have a dime.

His statement about my not haveing a childhood kind of struck me because my father used to call me "Old Man" when I was 12. But this 40 year old reminded me of a little kid most of the time.

What do you expect to happen if the man-boys out number the men? Remembering life in the projects it did often look like the kids were raising the kids. The adults just provided food and shelter, no knowledge or wisdom.

umbra
just skimmed this thread - and this issue can be very frustrating to process completely.

But all i know is that the only people we can control is our individual selves. And responsible individual choices are the only thing that can strengthen a community as a whole.

Speaking as a woman - one step that we can take is choosing very carefully what men we let into our lives and the circumstances under which we do so. Taking initiative in creating high standards for dating and sexual interaction is the first place to start. We can't wait on men to act right first and then step to us...because most of them are driven primarily by their sex drives and will focus on the short-term pleasure even if their intellect tells them it's an unhealthy mindset. So many people are afraid of not having a date on a friday night. But self-discipline yields a much better pay-off..not to mention much less emotional baggage and drama that Mr. or Mrs. Right will have to deal with when they come along.

I truely believe that men will follow the standards set by the women around them. If a guy couldn't get the goodies without acting a certain way, being self-sufficient, and having a basic level of education - best believe many more men would apply that competitive nature to more positive things and step their game up...even if only to avoid being lonely at night.

Western culture continues to tell us that engaging a man merely for sexual or material reasons is all good..but you don't have to look far to see how this mentality cripples a woman's leverage in our relationships with men. The 'Imma just do me' attitude doesn't work for us..cause if you have a whole community of people 'just doin them'..not much gets done for the greater good...and everyone's stuck tryin to assess the mess made from what they done did.

I don't want to make it seem like I'm putting all the responsiblity on women for the current situation. But again...I can only be responsible for my own choices..and I can only speak to steps I can take as a woman.
quote:
Originally posted by Girl Friday:


I truely believe that men will follow the standards set by the women around them. If a guy couldn't get the goodies without acting a certain way, being self-sufficient, and having a basic level of education - best believe many more men would apply that competitive nature to more positive things and step their game up....


You are so right. My current beau, who I met years ago, told me years that if all the xxxxx in the world was on the Moon, brothers would be drivin' cadilaics in space.

quote:
Originally posted by Girl Friday:

I don't want to make it seem like I'm putting all the responsiblity on women for the current situation. But again...I can only be responsible for my own choices..and I can only speak to steps I can take as a woman.


thanks cabbage appl Amen!
BLACK MEN OFTEN REMIND ME OF WHITE PEOPLE. WHITE PEOPLE BLAME BLACK FOLKS FOR EVERY PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE. BLACK MEN BLAME BLACK WOMEN FOR EVERY PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE. YES BLACK WOMEN MAKE BAD CHOICES IN THEIR MATES. SO DO BLACK MEN.YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW BLACK WOMEN ARE RAISING BLACK CHILDREN? MAKE BETTER CHOICES IN THE WOMEN YOU CHOOSE. BLACK WOMEN WON'T LET YOU SEE YOUR CHILDREN? MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES. BLACK WOMEN ARE GOLD DIGGERS? MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES. WHY DO BLACK MEN ALWAYS IGNORE THEIR FAULTS? WHY IS THE WEIGHT OF EVERYTHING ALWAYS PUT ON THE BLACK WOMEN. MAYBE BLACK WOMEN ARE FINALLY TIRED OF THE WEIGHT OF THE WHOLE RACE PUT ON OUR SHOULDERS. HELP US OUT PLEASE.WE ARE TIRED. STOP RAGGING ON US ALL THE TIME. AND STOP IGNORING THE FACT THAT YES, ONLY A MAN CAN RAISE A MAN. THERE ARE GOOD MEN IN OUR COMMUNITIES, MENTOR THE YOUNGER BROTHERS THAT ARE ALONE. OUR LITTLE SISTERS CAN USE THE SAME FROM OUR SUCCESSFUL SISTERS.WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN. PLACING THE BLAME IS GETTING US NOWHERE. WHERE IS THE SOLUTION IF ALL WE DO IS POINT FINGERS AT EACH OTHER. NO WONDER WE'RE SO MESSED UP.

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