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The criminal is responsible for the crime. This culture is so chock-full of victim-blaming it's sickening. Wrong is dead-ass wrong. If I leave my door wide open and you come in and harm me, your ass needs to be in the slammer for life. I don't need to be sentenced to a couple of days in jail for being an attractive victim. The criminal need not point out a damn thing but the error of his own ways.

quote:
So things are that bleak?

So women bear the majority of the burden?...

Everyone knows the statistics... right?

Then do what a * rational * person does, stop BITCHING...


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A rational person addresses the actual problem: the bleak situation, the unfair burden of responsibility, the stats! They don't dump blame on the wronged party and reserve ALL comment on the actual issue.

If you don't see how you and your bretheren are repeatedly making excuses for and letting men totally off the hook, you're insane. All that's been said it "ladies, do this! Ladies, do that! Ladies, I can't believe you are doing this or not doing that!" Not a comment on the men. Not a comment on the real problem. How the fuck can you say that you are not absolving men of responsiblity?!?!?!?!?! What The Fuck?? Two seconds after you say this:

"So things are that bleak?

So women bear the majority of the burden?...

Everyone knows the statistics... right?

Then do what a * rational * person does, stop BITCHING..."


I'm sorry, I missed where you were addressing male responsibility. I missed it throughout the whole thread. As a matter of fact, I've missed it throughout this entire site!! Roll Eyes

Nobody misses any opportunity to slam the Black woman, though. This steadfast focus on the peripheral, this staunch ignorance. You all drive me absolutely insane with this bullshit. How do the women in your lives keep an ounce of self-esteem with all this backwards thinking? And this is certainly not focused entirely on you, HB.

I'm finished.
Frenchy, let me repeat this for you... I don't have kids... So I don't bear any personal responsibility for any of this shit...

I would love to have kids though - but instead I listen to women bitch about other men... The women in our lives??????? It seems that black women are too busy fucking around with losers... then want to blame the rest of us for their poor choices.... That's why we spend so much time bitching about black women...

Leave me the fuck alone...

And if you don't have the fucking sense to lock your doors at night, that's your problem

Wrong might be dead-ass wrong... but stupid is still dead-ass stupid...
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quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
The criminal is responsible for the crime. This culture is so chock-full of victim-blaming it's sickening. Wrong is dead-ass wrong. If I leave my door wide open and you come in and harm me, your ass needs to be in the slammer for life.


Lastly we're not talking about crime... we're talking about grown ass women who apparently are too fucking stupid to use birth control... and hence are JUST AS GUILTY AS THE IDIOT WHO IMPREGNATES THEM.... Just as guilty.... but MORE stupid because it's their own lives that they've most likely just fucked.
quote:
They are JUST as responsible if not more so responsible if they don't bother to stick around. How can a woman teach a man how to be a man? That is something he needs to do. If he chooses not to, then he has not right to complain about the ONLY parent that child has.

When I am out making babies, I use a combination of the Jedi Mind Trick and the Vulcan Mind Meld so I can plant seeds without detection. I beats hitting her over the head and dragging her off to the cave.

Seriously...

How about women take the same level of responsibility they desire for men?
quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

You don't want to play both roles?

THEN DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING KIDS....


Here's a better idea. You're not man enough to stay around and be a father? Stop FUCKING!! Stop getting involved with women and lying to them and pretending that you will stay around and then running for the hills when children arrive. Stop fucking at 12 and 13 years old. Stop fucking every god damned thing with a vagina. I could go on for days.

Black WOMEN aren't the ones running from responsibility. IT'S BLACK MEN!



Babies are the by product of both a consenting man and woman and should both indulge in the procreation process why aren't birth-control methods used----Ever heard of condoms????
This issue has always pitted men against women.

Both are at fault....

So i say this.........women have to take responsibility, because of course women are left bearing the brunt of this situation.

Ladies we do this by, NOT believing a damn word that comes out of their mouths!! *I love you........yeah ok for the moment* Roll Eyes

There is no way, a man will sweet talk me for sex, or anything else........because i already know that if something should happen.........hes going to run.

There is a process, to stopping this....and if you really pay attention, there are tons of single, educated, black women that are making choices.....NOT allowing this to happen.

Black men are dead wrong for this..........but we as women, cant allow this to continue. We are affected, our children are affected....and therefore the black community is affected.
Only a 'man' would enunciate on how pathetic the state of black manhood is, and how black men are absent from fatherhood in far too great numbers, and then turn around and ask questions pointed towards black women only.
It takes TWO to raise a child, black men are just as responsible for single women making babies they can't support as are the women who spread their legs for these irresponsible men.

Create a culture of hypersexuality, celebrate it, and watch ourselves disintegrate into mediocrity.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
This issue has always pitted men against women.

Both are at fault....

So i say this.........women have to take responsibility, because of course women are left bearing the brunt of this situation.

Ladies we do this by, NOT believing a damn word that comes out of their mouths!! *I love you........yeah ok for the moment* Roll Eyes

There is no way, a man will sweet talk me for sex, or anything else........because i already know that if something should happen.........hes going to run.

There is a process, to stopping this....and if you really pay attention, there are tons of single, educated, black women that are making choices.....NOT allowing this to happen.

Black men are dead wrong for this..........but we as women, cant allow this to continue. We are affected, our children are affected....and therefore the black community is affected.


I agree men and women are responsible. It is all about making smart choices.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
First, let me just say that a few us who frequent the Dating, Relationships, and Sexuality side of the board have been debating this very same topic over the last five months, incessantly. The sisters feel that quality Black men are scarce and the brothers feel that sisters are not making quality choices. Unfortunately, the debate is now at a stand still. However, I think the solution is ultimately an interdependent one.

yeah

munch
After the stupid mistake is made and a child is forced into this world, then what? See that's the thing. This is why many men are viewed as stubborn bastards. They are so busy blaming the mom that they forget about the child's life and what that child needs. They could care less about the child...That's where all this stems from-SELFISHNESS. Selfish men wanting nothing but self gratification without suffering any consequences.
quote:
Here's a better idea. You're not man enough to stay around and be a father? Stop FUCKING!!


The problem with this entire concept is that too many young kids associate sex with being an adult not with the responsibility that might come afterward. Then there is the problem of girls wanting to play sexual power games.

A few years ago I ran into a woman that I went to grammar school with. I couldn't stand her back then but I stopped and said hello. She wasn't looking too prosperous and I wasn't acting like I was interested in her so she came out of this bag talking like I was a 12 year old virgin. I just shook my head and walked away. Most people's personalities don't change.

Some women expect to be able to control men with sex and become angry when it doesn't work and blame it on the man. The man just puts up a pretense to let the woman maintain her delusions for a while. It's men that actually fall for this that I find strange. Listen to that song Use Me by bill Withers.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:

The problem with this entire concept is that too many young kids associate sex with being an adult not with the responsibility that might come afterward. Then there is the problem of girls wanting to play sexual power games.


Not just young kids, there are many adults who still play these same games. Women and men still trying to control the each other with sex. People like this don't think of the future they only think of being satisfied at that moment. Responsibility is not even in play at that point. So when it is time to be responsible that is when the blame game starts.
Allow me to butt in. Although I agree that women are very much responsible for out of wedlock children, and should be more sexually responsible, but at least the women are raising the children they have!! Earlier I said that I do not understand why a women would allow her self to be impregnated by a man who will not be a good father. I also do not understand why a man would impregnate a women who will not be a good mother.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
Here's a better idea. You're not man enough to stay around and be a father? Stop FUCKING!!


The problem with this entire concept is that too many young kids associate sex with being an adult not with the responsibility that might come afterward. Then there is the problem of girls wanting to play sexual power games.

A few years ago I ran into a woman that I went to grammar school with. I couldn't stand her back then but I stopped and said hello. She wasn't looking too prosperous and I wasn't acting like I was interested in her so she came out of this bag talking like I was a 12 year old virgin. I just shook my head and walked away. Most people's personalities don't change.

Some women expect to be able to control men with sex and become angry when it doesn't work and blame it on the man. The man just puts up a pretense to let the woman maintain her delusions for a while. It's men that actually fall for this that I find strange. Listen to that song Use Me by bill Withers.

umbra


and what does any of this have to do with men raising the children they help to create?
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Allow me to butt in. Although I agree that women are very much responsible for out of wedlock children, and should be more sexually responsible, but at least the women are raising the children they have!! Earlier I said that I do not understand why a women would allow her self to be impregnated by a man who will not be a good father. I also do not understand why a man would impregnate a women who will not be a good mother.


because many of them do not care because they don't plan on stickin around long enough anyways even if she does get pregnant. they feel like it's not their problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Allow me to butt in. Although I agree that women are very much responsible for out of wedlock children, and should be more sexually responsible, but at least the women are raising the children they have!! Earlier I said that I do not understand why a women would allow her self to be impregnated by a man who will not be a good father. I also do not understand why a man would impregnate a women who will not be a good mother.


Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
I do not understand why a women would allow her self to be impregnated by a man who will not be a good father. I also do not understand why a man would impregnate a women who will not be a good mother.


Because neither are looking for a spouse .........

both are irresponsibly caught up in the moment.....



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
because many of them do not care because they don't plan on stickin around long enough anyways even if she does get pregnant. they feel like it's not their problem.

It is completely unreasonable, IMO, to assume that any planning was going on at all. If anyone was doing any planning, then no one would be in this mess.

Sexual responsibilty is everyone's responsibilty. All this finger pointing acomplishes nothing. It's your choice because it's your body. So, make wise choices and protect your body.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
because many of them do not care because they don't plan on stickin around long enough anyways even if she does get pregnant. they feel like it's not their problem.

It is completely unreasonable, IMO, to assume that any planning was going on at all. If anyone was doing any planning, then no one would be in this mess.

Sexual responsibilty is everyone's responsibilty. All this finger pointing acomplishes nothing. It's your choice because it's your body. So, make wise choices and protect your body.


why is no one talking about what to do after the baby comes into the world? I aplaud any single mom that attempts to raise a child. Where are the men that helped to create the child?
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Women do choose.....

But not from the same criteria .....

and not from the same stimulus....

and often not....

aware of the real consequences.....

quote:
Virture, get real, everybody knows that pregnancy is a direct result of unprotected sex, there are no oopsie babies [QUOTE]

Realistically we live in a culture where men and women do not typically get together physically to start a family.... they get together to please one another...... they are wrapped up in whatever qualities they find attractive in one another.....

and what a woman finds attractive varies......

even among those who are taught what they should be looking for.......

but....

oft times when a man and woman mate.... they are lost in passion.....

[QUOTE] woman here.... [QUOTE]

and we do not raise our girls to know how to restrain their passions enough to be cautious around men.....

and we do not raise our girls to value themselves enough not to allow themselves in risky situations....

the best we offer our girls....

is a condom....

and a stern warning not to come back with a baby.....

this works with some girls and sometimes....

but by no means should it be the best thing we, as elders in our society can come up with.....


[QUOTE] Girls with men, receipe for disaster, girls with boys, well, atleats they are on equal footing [QUOTE]

[QUOTE]If more women would stop having relationships with unstable, unresponsible men, many of the problems would be fixed.

If that is the goal....

What is the realistic method for its attainment?

How do we go about changing the hearts and minds of our young sisters so that they make better choices?

Or we like to place the blame of the weaknesses of our community on those of us in the community whose sins are not so easily hidden....

What I am saying is..... the pattern starts somewhere....

in the rearing of the mind of a girl....

how she views herself and the rest of the world....

her identity can't be a job, employment or career....

these are a means to an end....

or a way to express a talent and receive sustenance....

no....

her identity has to be her spiritual, holistic, righteous inner beauty....

how can we help our girls....

ourselves even....

to own this view of themselves ?

not so they become self-righteous....

but so that we can all see ourselves as valuable enough to have higher standards for ourselves





quote:
Virture, what a sirens song you sing here....You decry the fact that women or girls are all mixed up with thier choice because of low self esteem and then wonder how to improve. Girls who do not have fathers are looking for love in all the wrong places, if they emulate their mother's behavior they move from man to man still looking for love. The crisis comes from poor women, who choose to have children as means of support. Either from the fathers of those children or from the government. The mother is the problem, she is a poor example, and what children learn on a daily basis is what shapes thier soul. [QUOTE]

[QUOTE]However, the problems black men are facing is equally because of the crisis of motherhood and fatherhood


Yes.....

But we have greater and closer access psychologically and a myriad of other ways to access our young girls..... and be a sister to our age mates......

this is not done.....

at least when brother's are approach we will have a clearer idea of our wants, needs, expectations and realistic goals for the interaction of the sexes......

societies have been doing this for ages......


this society does it on a whim here and there depending on who's committed to the idea and has enough wisdom, endurance and charisma to sustain it...

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
why is no one talking about what to do after the baby comes into the world?



IMO the situation is very varied and complex....

a generalization would not do any real justice or serve any purpose except to bring out every exception to the rule and argue on the finer points......

that said....

every case is different.... I learned that after reading cases..... hearing about them on t.v. and changing my mind completely after meeting with young women (in particular) who face this challenge...... and I have learned to place their humanity and lack of training in perspective to my judgment of them, the men they sleep with and focus on the child.....

in some cases, it is not healthy to have the man there..... because of violence, drugs or emotional abuse to either or both the mother and child......

in some cases, the mother is blinded by her own slowness to mature and understand her responsibility and keeps the child from the father...... and more than pointing the finger at her is required for there to be understanding and peace established...... so that there is a working relationship between both parents for the child's benefit.....

in some cases the father runs away.... sometimes out of fear, lack of support, immaturity or callousness...... in either case the method by which one helps this father understand his responsibility varies and there are many groups with different approaches that work in varying degrees..... but they are often all male groups that help out the MIA father.........

in some cases the mother is a complete nut and the child needs to be removed from her care..... or she marries a nut and refuses to place the care of her child over the need for a nut in her life..... (which again makes her a nut).......

why does no one address these? because right now in this thread there seems to be a need to place blame on a specific gender.....

or an inability to tackle all of the differing issues that are incurred with this line of questioning.....


quote:
I applaud any single mom that attempts to raise a child. Where are the men that helped to create the child?

Please see above....


Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Women do choose.....

But not from the same criteria .....

and not from the same stimulus....

and often not....

aware of the real consequences.....


Virture, get real, everybody knows that pregnancy is a direct result of unprotected sex, there are no oopsie babies
Reread the post..... this is not my position

quote:
quote:
Realistically we live in a culture where men and women do not typically get together physically to start a family.... they get together to please one another...... they are wrapped up in whatever qualities they find attractive in one another.....

and what a woman finds attractive varies......

even among those who are taught what they should be looking for.......

but....

oft times when a man and woman mate.... they are lost in passion.....

woman here....

I suspect that the definition of woman is defined differently by you and I.....

I know only of you what I've read of your posts.....

So.....

I will only consent that you are a female that has aged......




quote:
quote:
and we do not raise our girls to know how to restrain their passions enough to be cautious around men.....

and we do not raise our girls to value themselves enough not to allow themselves in risky situations....

the best we offer our girls....

is a condom....

and a stern warning not to come back with a baby.....

this works with some girls and sometimes....

but by no means should it be the best thing we, as elders in our society can come up with.....


Girls with men, receipe for disaster, girls with boys, well, atleats they are on equal footing

See, we think very differently about the value of females....

I'll put it as simply as possible....

girls/women with no standards for themselves or others who enter their lives, have low self-esteem, and place passion above responsibility having sex... is bad... man or boy.....


quote:
quote:
quote:
If more women would stop having relationships with unstable, unresponsible men, many of the problems would be fixed.

If that is the goal....

What is the realistic method for its attainment?

How do we go about changing the hearts and minds of our young sisters so that they make better choices?

Or we like to place the blame of the weaknesses of our community on those of us in the community whose sins are not so easily hidden....

What I am saying is..... the pattern starts somewhere....

in the rearing of the mind of a girl....

how she views herself and the rest of the world....

her identity can't be a job, employment or career....

these are a means to an end....

or a way to express a talent and receive sustenance....

no....

her identity has to be her spiritual, holistic, righteous inner beauty....

how can we help our girls....

ourselves even....

to own this view of themselves ?

not so they become self-righteous....

but so that we can all see ourselves as valuable enough to have higher standards for ourselves





Virture, what a sirens song you sing here....You decry the fact that women or girls are all mixed up with thier choice because of low self esteem and then wonder how to improve. Girls who do not have fathers are looking for love in all the wrong places, if they emulate their mother's behavior they move from man to man still looking for love. The crisis comes from poor women, who choose to have children as means of support. Either from the fathers of those children or from the government. The mother is the problem, she is a poor example, and what children learn on a daily basis is what shapes thier soul.

Hmmmm..... typical and expected from you Nikcara....

I will only waste my time explaining things to you but so long..... and then I will let you have your fill..... you are a broken shallow record......

but.....

you just agreed with me that a man and woman must responsible.....

as usual you are very limited in your thinking when it comes to evaluating the source of the problem....

money is everything to you....
and it is how you evaluate morals.....

alas.....

this conversation is futile.....

since money is all that's needed....

I'm sure if you and your ilk are well endowed.....

the poor immoral human beings in our community could stand the moral upliftment.....

don't be stingy with your money beloved...

share....



Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
because many of them do not care because they don't plan on stickin around long enough anyways even if she does get pregnant. they feel like it's not their problem.

It is completely unreasonable, IMO, to assume that any planning was going on at all. If anyone was doing any planning, then no one would be in this mess.

Sexual responsibilty is everyone's responsibilty. All this finger pointing accomplishes nothing. It's your choice because it's your body. So, make wise choices and protect your body.


This, for me, says it all... and applies to everyone involved (of both genders)
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
You know Virtue, you and I can agree to disagree, indeed in some posts you have even said you liked what I wrote


I don't back down from truth.... When you speak it... I acknowlege it.... its not personal.....

quote:
, but broken record, .... I would think a comment like that was beneath you but .... true colors always show.

You're right..... out of character..... uncalled for......

which is why I rarely post in this section....

most topics are too close for comfort and I let my anger show....

don't want this to be about a low blow.....

so I take back the personal insults, Nikcara....

but we will....

have to agree to disagree.....



Peace and Blessings,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
Actually...

Men should stop impregnating women who demonstrate a propensity for breeding.



Actually, men should stop impregnating women they have no intention of supporting... If you can't see yourself spending your life with a woman then you have no damned business impregnating her...

If she's got too many kids already and you have no intention of being apart of that family why are you even fucking around with her?
quote:
Where are the men that helped to create the child?

Usually working two or three jobs to get out from underneath an oppressive child support enforcement order.

come on... Black women make it IMPOSSIBLE to participate in raising children when the family is split apart. Bitterness, wrath, anger, hurt, pain, vindictiveness usually encourage sistas to make the wrong decisions when it comes to writing off and alienating dad. And I have some reccomendations that I believe can dead this issue.

1) Do away with the concecpt of "primary physical custody" and give men the opportunity to raise their children - especially boys - on their own.

2) Reform Child Support laws and replace monetary consideration with a "Father Involvement Incentive" program. Under this initiative, involved fathers would see a reduction in the financial obligation to the mother based upon time spent with the children. The more time spent with the child, the more raising he does, the more school trips he attends, the more doctors appointments mades, more meals cooked, more emotional bonding... child support payments are reduced.

3) No more mandatory custody for Black women with Black boys. Black men should be legally compelled to make a home for their boys with mom having as much visitation as she wants.

This can go a long way for creating social change in the Black dommunity when staying together as a couple is not an option.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
If she's got too many kids already and you have no intention of being apart of that family why are you even fucking around with her?

Now that's real!

That whole "two or three different babies by two or three different daddies" is completely insane. Every single adult in these situations has lost their damn mind. The only people I feel sorry for are the children.

Children, all children, deserve better than that.
Shango67, the tender years doctrine is gone is most states, Men do not typically fight for their children. Men accept joint legal custody and do not fight for their right to joint physical, they go to court unrepresented and afraid to speak.

When they leave the woman, take the child, if their are no custody papers, no one has legal custody. But men leave and leave the kid. I agree with what you said but most can be done now if Men would fight for thier kids, ask Gambit, he fought for his daughter and won.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
2) Reform Child Support laws and replace monetary consideration with a "Father Involvement Incentive" program. Under this initiative, involved fathers would see a reduction in the financial obligation to the mother based upon time spent with the children. The more time spent with the child, the more raising he does, the more school trips he attends, the more doctors appointments mades, more meals cooked, more emotional bonding... child support payments are reduced.

I like #1 and #3 Shango, but #2 doesn't seem fiesable to me. How would you evaluate the amount of emotional bonding and so on, in a way that could put a dollar amout on it?

The other thing is that spending time with the child, although important, does not alone help with the costs of raising a child. A man shouldn't be able to waive his financial obligations just because he went to a certain number of field trips and doctors appointments.
quote:
and what does any of this have to do with men raising the children they help to create?


It has to do with men and WOMEN who are childish from the get go aren't going to suddenly stop being childish because a baby has arrived. So this blaming it all on the overgrown boys is a bunch of nonsense. why didn't the girl make sure she didn't get pregnant.

We need to teach kids to think before they reach puberty but a lot of adults act like they want to keep kids dumb. That's how it looked to me as a kid.

umbra
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
Actually...

Men should stop impregnating women who demonstrate a propensity for breeding.


Those are the easiest women to have sex with, the Sure Thing... which is what most men want. Men should avoid women who have children out of wedlock. But they don't. I know more attorneys who will have sex with women who have children, but would never marry those same women. What is they say in Jerry McGuire, you should not take the punanni from the baby moma... words to live by.

What I find amusing is men who have sex with women who are multiple baby mamas and fail to use triple protection, i.e. the pill, condoms and vaginal contraceptive film. Then they wonder why she is pregnant? Da Dat Duh.

Also, while these women are getting gussied up for the date with the soon to be new baby daddy, where are thier kids, .... poor parenting.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
We need to teach kids to think before they reach puberty but a lot of adults act like they want to keep kids dumb. That's how it looked to me as a kid.

umbra


Ain't that the truth?... Adults in this country are really hypocrites when it comes to estimating the intelligence and sophistication of youth... We want to to keep them at Disney level until they're 18 inspite of the fact that the goal is impossible... meanwhile we fail to provide them with the tools they need to survive - like knowledge about their own sexuality...
quote:
Originally posted by Nikcara:
Shango67, the tender years doctrine is gone is most states, Men do not typically fight for their children. Men accept joint legal custody and do not fight for their right to joint physical, they go to court unrepresented and afraid to speak.

When they leave the woman, take the child, if their are no custody papers, no one has legal custody. But men leave and leave the kid. I agree with what you said but most can be done now if Men would fight for thier kids, ask Gambit, he fought for his daughter and won.

1) The "Tender Years Doctorine" is not gone... it is there in spirit... and most definately practiced. And their are PLENTY of men who fight for custody - epecially in divorce cases.

2) What Black man isn't afraid to go into court and speak - especially in FAMILY COURT? An how many brothers can afford legal counsel?

3) I had to fight for my son for two and half years in an attempt to rescue him from a potentially serious situation, so I don't have to consult Gambit. The court was all in my ass. They wanted W2 forms, old and current tax returns, pay stubs, college transcripts, bank account records, lease agreement, and everything else. Also, the court appointed an investigator who came to my home, whenever she wanted, to inspect my property. COUNTLESS visits from the Law Guardian (the attorney appointed by the court who acts in the best interest of the child). The court even sends people to your place of employment to interview co-workers and management. "Have you ever seen Mr. Shango get angry? Does he drink or do drugs? How is his overall deameanor? Does he socialize outside of work? Have you been to his home? Is he competent in his job?" And let's not forget the five different psychological exams conducted by an array of mental health professionals - only then to submit a report to the judge based upon a 30 minute session.

I did win... not on my merit, but on the fact that the process broke her down and she refused to attend the trial. A year later she appealed. The first process busted the bank and I had to write the appeal myself (appeal lawyers are more expensive than trail attorneys. I spent days and nights searching Westlaw and Lexis - looking up cases, answering legal questions put to me in her attorney's application. The cost for transcripts alone were outrageous. And to top it off... the appellate court assigned her an appellate lawyer for FREE. Then I had to travel to Albany to defend myself, in front of the appellate panet, against her attorney who does this shit for a living.

4) Nikcara... Black men who get custody of their children is not the norm. And it certainly isn't wise to take a child from a mother absent a court order, under the pretense of thinking it will go over well with the police department or the judge in family court. This is still a white only nation and Black men pulling that kind of jack move will head toward a criminal charge and start you off on the wrong foot with the family court judge.

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