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I'm not quite sure how to broach this topic without some negative vibe. I am interested in sistas' and brothas' feelings about the concept of male privilege. In church, and community organizations there are some roles which seem automatically expected of sistas. Is it spiritually, naturally, socially right to assert that a man should make decisions, lead the unit, have his voice heard, or be served simply because he is a man? Is this the natural order of things? How does this affect sistas? Does male privilege seep into work? relationships? spiritual? family? Is it a useful concept? Your thoughts?

Everybody can be great... because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.  


Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

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The white man may have a male privilege, but i honestly believe in the case of the Black man he is both loved and hated at the same time. Both admired and despised. In this society we carry the burden. This is my opinion of course.

As far as the Church goes, the black man may be the preacher or whatever looks like the head , but the women run the church.

This is my opinion of course.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Is it spiritually, naturally, socially right to assert that a man should make decisions, lead the unit, have his voice heard, or be served simply because he is a man?


I remember watching an interview with Yolanda Adams on television, and when questioned about how her husband feels about her touring and performing all around the country, she responded by saying, "Before I go on any tour, I ask my husband for permission first." After viewing the interview, I got the impression that to Adams being a Christian woman means to seek her husband's approval before she acted on any decision that may affect him and their children.

Coming from a household where I watched my mother pay most of the bills, earn four times as much as my Dad, and basically manage everything in our home herself, I was horrified by Adam's reponse, and I felt sorry for women like her. Even in my youth, I was strongly opposed to the religious instruction for women to be "submissive to their husbands." Today, when women are working 40+ hours a week, contributing equally, if not MORE to the home's finances than their spouses, this kind of instruction no longer makes any sense.

In my view, marriage should be a solid partnership, where both spouses act as COMPLIMENTARY (rather than opposing) opposites. Even if a woman is a stay-at-home mom and her husband works, no one's idea, opinion, or decision should be considered "FINAL" until each spouse's voice and concerns have been heard. Marriage is a SHARED responsibility and partnership, not a dictatorship.

A common argument that I hear from churches that promote this kind of religious instruction (women should be submissive to their husbands) is that women are emotionally-fragile, indecisive, and gullible beings. Easily manipulated, their emotions prevent them from seeing a situation clearly and from making objective, unbiased decisions, particularly if the situation is stressful and they are under a substantial amount of pressure. The church argues that under these conditions, women are incapable of making rational decisions and that they should defer to their husband's "wisdom" because men are naturally gifted at sizing up a situation and/or a suspect individual more objectively than women.

Some of these chauvinistic observations may have a ring of truth to them; however, I believe most of this nonsense has been designed to keep women in docile positions with respect to their husbands and men in general, in other words, to "keep women in their place" sort of speak.

In Adam's case, I believe she and her husband should DISCUSS, TOGETHER how often she should be away from home to manage her singing career. Bbut she should NOT have to REPORT to him as if he were her father and she were his child. I think that kind of relationship is unnatural and detrimental, in the long run, to a healthy and balanced relationship.
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There are a lot of women who submit to their husbands. They believe God is first , then the husband then wife. But submitting to your Husband doesnt mean degrading yourself or being beneath him,Its all about knowing a mans nature and knowing how to deal with him.

How you gonna tell Yolanda Adams , how she and her husband should handle their marraige. I think they took the vows not you. I think thats a big part of relationships nowadays, certain women view other women as being weak, even though they usually have a very healthy relationship, and 9 times out of ten these women usually either dont have a man or in a terrible relationship

Cultures all over the world have these types of relationship where a woman submitts to a honorable man. Its only the American woman who actually wants to head of the relationship and expects the man to accept whatever she feels she wants to do. No wonder there are so many single women and hig divorce rates
Yolanda Adams is a singer. She may to ask need permission. She travels all over the world. Not just the US. When your a singer you go so many places in just about 2 months or a year. That's a long time being away from home. That's a totally different permission. Lives of singer or anyone in entertainment need planning. Then a house wife. Negrospiritual made a whole lot of good points.
Hi all...

Having grown up in the south in the baptist church, I was made to believe that men were supposed to make the major decisions, head up things, be served first...despite the hard work of the sistafolk to keep things going.

i've also encountered my share of black men in work, dating, and worship situations who are not afraid to make it known that they don't like it when a woman "gets out of place".

it's my contention that no man, black or otherwise should have the audacity to assign a woman "a place"

Zakar, i noted that your post seems to say black women are seeking to dominate men. totally not where I'm coming from. please correct me if i've interpreted this wrong.

I think all sistas should have the love and support of not only her mate, but all brothas in general. Sistas should not have to deconstruct and reconstruct their personalities to be in alignment with brothafolk's perception of what a woman "ought to be like"

this, I think, is the vestige of white male privilege copied from the dominant culture.

i've heard it said that this patriarchal attitude toward women, this sense of automatic male privilege weakened both the civil rights and black power movements...
I think both males and females are afforded privilege...

in most cases trying to assign value (as in your privilege is less or greater than mine) is non productive...

there are benefits to being female that men don't have and vice versa.... it doesn't always have to be a negative double standard.... sometimes I wish we could learn to appreciate our differences and look at them complimentary instead of combatively... or competitively....


in cases of abuse.... there clearly are no benefits on either side...



Peace,
Khalliqa
Peace....

quote:
Originally posted by virtue/Khalliqa:
I think both males and females are afforded privilege...

in most cases trying to assign value (as in your privilege is less or greater than mine) is non productive...

there are benefits to being female that men don't have and vice versa.... it doesn't always have to be a negative double standard.... sometimes I wish we could learn to appreciate our differences and look at them complimentary instead of combatively... or competitively....


in cases of abuse.... there clearly are no benefits on either side...



Peace,
Khalliqa



I agree......
munch



Kai
I'm not entirely in agreement of [black] male privilege similar to that of white males; but have been exposed to the male attitude as one of entitlement, whereas, many[most] males communicate from the vantage point of the male self-concept as above or superior that of the female, in cognitive functions, physical performance and organization and leadership skills. My brothers when they were younger, as young as 9 and 10 years old, were already 'clear' on male-female hierarchy.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue/Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I ain't privileged..that's all I know...



May I ask why not?


Peace,
Khalliqa


Privledge (in the context we're discussing) implies an automatic access to various resources and outlets. Being I'm black, I don't have that. Being I'm a black man, I don't have that. Being I'm a black man that does'nt "tow the line" I REALLY don't have that.

Privlege for me is one of those cute terms that I hear about but unable to actual relate to. To me, it's something on the "outside". I've had to outsmart, outwork, and outtough for every advancement I've made and everything I have. I ain't privlileged.
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Privledge (in the context we're discussing) implies an automatic access to various resources and outlets.


That's only part of it.

Everyone has certain privileges. Black men are included.

Quick List of Male Privilege:

-Sexual Harassment isn't regular for you when you walk down the street. You can walk down the block and feel safe. You don't feel inclined to dress feminine to lower your chances of catching attention and you don't recruit chaperones to cut down one your risk of street harassment. You don't have to think too hard about your comfort before responding to a woman's hello.

-Over 40% of guys aren't estimated to have been coerced into sex acts before the age of 18.

-You don't have the Jezebel stereotype that makes you internalize the assault. You'll less likely to hear that rape was your fault.

-The leading cause of your death for people between 15 and 34 is homicide, as it is for Black women, but unlike us, your leading cause of death isn't homicide by intimate partner and ex.

-You don't have to be too sexy to make it in the entertainment business. There is no female Biz Marke. And men get to keep all of their clothes on.

-There are less jobs legally restricted to females.

-Professional Black men also have privilege in the workplace. They out earn all women. They are more likely to reach management positions than Black women.

-Men are taken more seriously in the workplace and out. You're probably less likely to have to call over a female co-worker to testify to what you've said to a client.

-You don't have to speak in a feminine voice to convey authority.

-You aren't assumed to have slept your way to the top.

-Men in traditionally female positions are more likely to be seen as more competent--Hairdresser, "manny," nurse. While women are more likely to be seen as less competent in traditionally male positions--Carpenter, mechanic, supervisor.

-A Black father walking out on his family isn't seen as bad as a mother walking out. A father staying is automatically assumed to be good.

-You can work and have a family without scrutiny.

-You're not ass expected to bring in half the income into the home, yet do nearly all of the housework.

-You're less likely to be prodded into marriage just because you haven't had a child by 30. Your masculinity won't be questioned.

-If you say something that's disagreed with, it won't be ignored and attributed to PMS.

-Men aren't expected to play stupid in order to not scare away women.

-You're not "too strong" because you're competent.

-You're not a bitch because you are assertive.

-There is no male equivalent for the most profane of woman-specific disparaging terms.

-Men are supposed to be commended for listening to women's issues, but women are simply expected to do that for men.

-You aren't told your issues don't matter or don't affect "us." People won't assume you're gay if you focus on male issues.
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Privledge (in the context we're discussing) implies an automatic access to various resources and outlets.


That's only part of it.

Everyone has certain privileges. Black men are included.

Quick List of Male Privilege:

-Sexual Harassment isn't regular for you when you walk down the street. You can walk down the block and feel safe. You don't feel inclined to dress feminine to lower your chances of catching attention and you don't recruit chaperones to cut down one your risk of street harassment. You don't have to think too hard about your comfort before responding to a woman's hello.

-Over 40% of guys aren't estimated to have been coerced into sex acts before the age of 18.

-You don't have the Jezebel stereotype that makes you internalize the assault. You'll less likely to hear that rape was your fault.

-The leading cause of your death for people between 15 and 34 is homicide, as it is for Black women, but unlike us, your leading cause of death isn't homicide by intimate partner and ex.

-You don't have to be too sexy to make it in the entertainment business. There is no female Biz Marke. And men get to keep all of their clothes on.

-There are less jobs legally restricted to females.

-Professional Black men also have privilege in the workplace. They out earn all women. They are more likely to reach management positions than Black women.

-Men are taken more seriously in the workplace and out. You're probably less likely to have to call over a female co-worker to testify to what you've said to a client.

-You don't have to speak in a feminine voice to convey authority.

-You aren't assumed to have slept your way to the top.

-Men in traditionally female positions are more likely to be seen as more competent--Hairdresser, "manny," nurse. While women are more likely to be seen as less competent in traditionally male positions--Carpenter, mechanic, supervisor.

-A Black father walking out on his family isn't seen as bad as a mother walking out. A father staying is automatically assumed to be good.

-You can work and have a family without scrutiny.

-You're not ass expected to bring in half the income into the home, yet do nearly all of the housework.

-You're less likely to be prodded into marriage just because you haven't had a child by 30. Your masculinity won't be questioned.

-If you say something that's disagreed with, it won't be ignored and attributed to PMS.

-Men aren't expected to play stupid in order to not scare away women.

-You're not "too strong" because you're competent.

-You're not a bitch because you are assertive.

-There is no male equivalent for the most profane of woman-specific disparaging terms.

-Men are supposed to be commended for listening to women's issues, but women are simply expected to do that for men.

-You aren't told your issues don't matter or don't affect "us." People won't assume you're gay if you focus on male issues.

Black men do not ENJOY any of these so called privileges... in fact, this entire list is a stretch of the imagination.

Male privlege in amerikkkan society does not bring Black men any of the power, property, and prestige it does for white men. And at the end of the day, Black men are the

HUNTED!

And our women play a role - especially in how they raise our boys.
You have the ability to deny because of your privilege.

I'm sure a White person won't hail a cab and think, Wow, the cabbie stopped. It must be because I'm a White. That person probably wouldn't think about race at all.

After being passed by five taxis, a Black person might look at how easy the White people are getting a lift and say Blacks don't have the same advantage because of race.

Race is an issue, but it's understandable that only the one adversely affected would see it immediately and clearly.

In that way, racism is similar to sexism.

That's what permits you to say that the entire list is a stretch.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
Black men do not ENJOY any of these so called privileges... in fact, this entire list is a stretch of the imagination.


You don't see it? Perhaps your privileges are blinding...

quote:
Male privlege in amerikkkan society does not bring Black men any of the power, property, and prestige it does for white men.


No it brings power--over women, women seen as property, prestige after ummmm.. "bagging" as many as you can....

you are privileged among us... and increasingly I'm beginning to question that..


quote:
And at the end of the day, Black men are the

HUNTED!

By Black women who desire you and white women who see you as a sexual novelty...

quote:
And our women play a role - especially in how they raise our boys.



and its really hard to raise a boy into a man when the one you were with decided that after you stupidly allow him to "hit" that.... its the woman's responsibility alone to raise the child that you "both" produced.....


whaeva...


changed my mind... men? td6


better D?
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
quote:
Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Privledge (in the context we're discussing) implies an automatic access to various resources and outlets.


That's only part of it.

Everyone has certain privileges. Black men are included.

Quick List of Male Privilege:

-Sexual Harassment isn't regular for you when you walk down the street. You can walk down the block and feel safe. You don't feel inclined to dress feminine to lower your chances of catching attention and you don't recruit chaperones to cut down one your risk of street harassment. You don't have to think too hard about your comfort before responding to a woman's hello.

Regardless of frequency, a man is likely to scorned, dismissed, or viewed as weak for reporting harassment.

-Over 40% of guys aren't estimated to have been coerced into sex acts before the age of 18.

Unless you are taking about rape specifically, this stat is spurious at best. Are you suggesting woman are gullible & easily manipulated mentally? Sex, outside of rape is a choice.

-You don't have the Jezebel stereotype that makes you internalize the assault. You'll less likely to hear that rape was your fault.

see commentary about men reporting sexual harassment

-The leading cause of your death for people between 15 and 34 is homicide, as it is for Black women, but unlike us, your leading cause of death isn't homicide by intimate partner and ex.

-You don't have to be too sexy to make it in the entertainment business. There is no female Biz Marke. And men get to keep all of their clothes on.


LL Cool J, Tyrese, Mario, Omarion, D'Angelo, Marques Houston, Usher - shall I continue? Half-naked is the MO for artists today, regardless of gender.

-There are less jobs legally restricted to females.

examples please?

-Professional Black men also have privilege in the workplace. They out earn all women. They are more likely to reach management positions than Black women.

I work for a Fortune 100 company and see the personnel data for the entire company. Black women outnumber Black men 7 to 1 and are in management at a ratio of 5 to 1; on average, they make more money than the few brothers there. Perhaps my workplace is an outlier...

-Men are taken more seriously in the workplace and out. You're probably less likely to have to call over a female co-worker to testify to what you've said to a client.

How did you come to this conclusion? Can you point me to a report or study?

-You don't have to speak in a feminine voice to convey authority.

Black men are typically viewed as threatening in the workplace; we often are asked to change our ways of interacting with people to become more acceptable.

-You aren't assumed to have slept your way to the top.

-Men in traditionally female positions are more likely to be seen as more competent--Hairdresser, "manny," nurse. While women are more likely to be seen as less competent in traditionally male positions--Carpenter, mechanic, supervisor.

report? I'm asking because I really want to read it.

-A Black father walking out on his family isn't seen as bad as a mother walking out. A father staying is automatically assumed to be good.

-You can work and have a family without scrutiny.

-You're not ass expected to bring in half the income into the home, yet do nearly all of the housework.

All? Not sure about that. I will counter with home repair, projects that require heavy manual labor & yardwork.

-You're less likely to be prodded into marriage just because you haven't had a child by 30. Your masculinity won't be questioned.

-If you say something that's disagreed with, it won't be ignored and attributed to PMS.

-Men aren't expected to play stupid in order to not scare away women.

-You're not "too strong" because you're competent.

-You're not a bitch because you are assertive.

-There is no male equivalent for the most profane of woman-specific disparaging terms.

-Men are supposed to be commended for listening to women's issues, but women are simply expected to do that for men.

-You aren't told your issues don't matter or don't affect "us." People won't assume you're gay if you focus on male issues.

Black men do not ENJOY any of these so called privileges... in fact, this entire list is a stretch of the imagination.

Male privlege in amerikkkan society does not bring Black men any of the power, property, and prestige it does for white men. And at the end of the day, Black men are the

HUNTED!

And our women play a role - especially in how they raise our boys.


appl
I got tired , so perhaps I'll come back to this with additional thoughts. Perhaps instead of engaging in a gender pissing match of "Who's got it worse?", we should work on improving Black Privilege. Period.
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
Yolanda Adams is a singer. She may to ask need permission. She travels all over the world. Not just the US.


Still, as a active partner in a marriage, a woman should not be required to report to her husband as if she were a child. I don't care if she needs to travel to another planet. Any matter that affects the household should be discussed together. No decision should be made autonomously, as if a woman's concerns are unimportant, especially if she is a chief contributor in the home.

Brother Zakar commented that cultures all over the world have these types of relationship where a woman submits to a honorable man. This is true. However, what Brother Zakar fails to realize is that in most cases, the women belonging to these cultures are largely dependent upon their husbands for support and financial security. Such a dependency changes the entire structure of a relationship, putting a tremendous amount of responsibility on how a home will be managed on the husband. In Western society, things are A LOT different. Women are now earning salaries that surpass their husbands' salaries. Many of them are the breadwinners in the home, and they work very hard to support their families. Consequently, no longer do women seek marriages for financial security. Marriages based on financial security are now extinct. Today, women seek marriages principally for emotional fulfillment and romance. They do not seek men to support them or to give them explicit directions on how to live their lives. Therefore, if today's men and women are to have lasting, successful relationships, then it is important that both sexes update their attitudes and thoughts about relationships and the ways in which women and men are to relate to one another.
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quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
I got tired , so perhaps I'll come back to this with additional thoughts. Perhaps instead of engaging in a gender pissing match of "Who's got it worse?", we should work on improving Black Privilege. Period.


I'm with you Brother Ddouble, and I was hoping this conversation would not turn into yet another racial discussion. I believe the topic is about male priviledge in general, and so I was hoping the discussion would focus on the changing relationship between women and men rather than focus on how hard the Black man has it.
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DD, I'm not trying to do a who has it worse oppression Olympics.

I just find it ridiculous that Black men think they aren't able to be sexist and don't get any perks from being in a patriarchal society.

There won't be any improvement if the desire to trump and deny everything women say continues. Roll Eyes

-Frequency can't be ignored in regard to street harassment. Black women and little girls are dismissed for our complaints, too. We must be asking for it. We aren't walking confident enough. The men were simply attracted to our confidence. We smiled. We didn't smile. We wear the wrong clothes. Why do we walk that way? We have nice bodies, get over it.

One in three women are "gullible" enough to be raped, but coerced into sex acts?

http://ase.tufts.edu/womenscenter/peace/africana/newsite/statistics.htm

-The entertainment issue is just my opinion, however I see a way higher percentage of poorly clad women in entertainment than men. Look at the men on 106 & Park compared to the men. There weren't many showing it all men on Uncut, either.

Overall in entertainment, women seem to have to play on their sexuality more than men.

Missy is no Biz, Shango.

-There are military jobs restricted to men. Combat.

-Your company does seem odd. Race, Gender, and Workplace Power talks about the disparity. The professional sphere is still very patriarchal and Black women are still women. Black men with the same skills as Black women are higher on the hierarchy.

College educated Black men out earn Black, Asian, and even White women.

-My conclusion about men being taken more seriously in the workplace is largely based on what I've talked about with other women and my personal experience.

We are often assumed to be mistaken or fought with for saying the same thing a man did. I assume it's because men are taken more seriously.

-Black women are seen as threatening, as well. Some people assume we'll "get ghetto." But many women, not just Black women, try to speak with a more masculine voice in order to be taken seriously.

-You've got to be kidding questioning the competency thing. *google* Or better yet, look at the world around you. Unless Atlanta is some sexism-free nirvana, you'll see what I mean.

-I said "nearly all" the housework. In the more liberal of homes, not quite. But over 50%.
quote:
I'm with you Brother Ddouble, and I was hoping this conversation would not turn into yet another racial discussion. I believe the topic is about male priviledge in general, and so I was hoping the discussion would focus on the changing relationship between women and men rather than focus on how hard the Black man has it.

Which is probably why I can't or should not be part of this convo. I do not think that Black men should engage in ANY conversation about male privilege in amerikkkan society unless it is from an African centered paradigm that INCLUDES a discussion of Black manhood. Moreover, and again from an African centered perspective, Black men should not have this conversation with Black women who are influenced by white radical lesbian feminist thought.

As a Black man in this country, I live in a world completely apart and distinct from my white counterpart... and outside of sharing a biological commonality, we have absolutely NOTHING in common... especially in terms of power and spheres of influence.
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
You have the ability to deny because of your privilege.

I'm sure a White person won't hail a cab and think, Wow, the cabbie stopped. It must be because I'm a White. That person probably wouldn't think about race at all.

After being passed by five taxis, a Black person might look at how easy the White people are getting a lift and say Blacks don't have the same advantage because of race.

Race is an issue, but it's understandable that only the one adversely affected would see it immediately and clearly.

In that way, racism is similar to sexism.

That's what permits you to say that the entire list is a stretch.

No. My ability to "deny male privilege" is found in my ability to think critically.

The cab scenario is cute, but it includes the assumption that whites ARE NOT ABLE TO RECOGNIZE white privilege.

I know SEXISM exist, but it is important to identify who benefits from its practice. And in this country, Black men do not benefit from the oppression of white, black, yellow, or brown women.
quote:
You don't see it? Perhaps your privileges are blinding...

I don't see it cause the benefits of being "male" don't exist for Black men in this country.
quote:
No it brings power--over women, women seen as property, prestige after ummmm.. "bagging" as many as you can....

you are privileged among us... and increasingly I'm beginning to question that..

So at the end of the day, I am a big hit with clown negroes who hang out on the corner. Let me know when the power transfers to homeownership, low incarceration rates, low levels of under and unemployment, low murder rate, higher life expectancy, higher literacy, more college degrees, better pay, and what not.
quote:
Privledge (in the context we're discussing) implies an automatic access to various resources and outlets. Being I'm black, I don't have that. Being I'm a black man, I don't have that. Being I'm a black man that does'nt "tow the line" I REALLY don't have that.

Privlege for me is one of those cute terms that I hear about but unable to actual relate to. To me, it's something on the "outside". I've had to outsmart, outwork, and outtough for every advancement I've made and everything I have. I ain't privlileged.

This should be repeated on every page of this discussion.
Another commonality between those who benefit from sexism and those who benefit from racism is not only that they don't see the disadvantages of others, but they often don't want to.

You cannot say you know that sexism exists, yet refuse to see the components of it.

You want to repeat what Gam said because you too don't what to see privilege for all of what it is.

I applaud your decision not to be a part of the conversation because you aren't adding any imput about male privilege, except by your denial.

It is an example it, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't intended.

You're talking is like a White panel discussion on racism. You don't feel the affects of it, so you can't fully speak on it. You don't even what to acknowledge some of it. And you just look silly in your denial of the effects of it.

In this case, it's best to listen to men and women who have something of substance to say on male privilege.
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
Another commonality between those who benefit from sexism and those who benefit from racism is not only that they don't see the disadvantages of others, but they often don't want to.

You cannot say you know that sexism exists, yet refuse to see the components of it.

You want to repeat what Gam said because you too don't what to see privilege for all of what it is.


I can understand brother Shango's difficulty with this issue. Compared to white men ... we ain't "privileged" ... and as long as I compare my experience with that of white men, I will never wrap my mind around the concept.

But then maybe the crucial words are "compared to"? .... privilege is relative ....

American women are privileged compared to Pakistani women.

Perhaps African American men enjoy a male privilege with respect to African American women?
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Hi all...

Having grown up in the south in the baptist church, I was made to believe that men were supposed to make the major decisions, head up things, be served first...despite the hard work of the sistafolk to keep things going.

i've also encountered my share of black men in work, dating, and worship situations who are not afraid to make it known that they don't like it when a woman "gets out of place".

it's my contention that no man, black or otherwise should have the audacity to assign a woman "a place"

Zakar, i noted that your post seems to say black women are seeking to dominate men. totally not where I'm coming from. please correct me if i've interpreted this wrong.

I think all sistas should have the love and support of not only her mate, but all brothas in general. Sistas should not have to deconstruct and reconstruct their personalities to be in alignment with brothafolk's perception of what a woman "ought to be like"

this, I think, is the vestige of white male privilege copied from the dominant culture.

i've heard it said that this patriarchal attitude toward women, this sense of automatic male privilege weakened both the civil rights and black power movements...



Also Shango is right to say it is difficult to appreciate black male privilege in the context of the larger society ...

Perhaps it is easier to see how it functions within black institutional life?

Because I (personally) find myself rather estranged from the major black institutions (like the church) the concept is all the more difficult for me to grasp too ...

But negrospiritual's post helped a bit.
quote:
Perhaps it is easier to see how it functions within black institutional life ...

There are no Black institutions.
quote:
Because I (personally) find myself rather estranged from the major black institutions (like the church) the concept is all the more difficult for me to grasp too ...

Yep.

And in the Black church, Black women UPHOLD AND SAFEGUARD Black male power systems
quote:
Originally posted by ma'am:
IC, HB, but I thought this thread was about brothas and sistas.

Should Black male privilege be ignored and denied until it's on par to that of White men?

Should everything Black women say be considered a lie until Black men have what they consider their share of the patriarchy pie in the larger society?



Actually, I was trying to create some context to help make your point. I was not denying anything you've said.
quote:
Should Black male privilege be ignored and denied until it's on par to that of White men?

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?
quote:
Should everything Black women say be considered a lie until Black men have what they consider their share of the patriarchy pie in the larger society?

Not a lie. But since most Black women think from a white radical feminist framework, Black men should take it as a DISTORTED view that is dangerous to our survival.
Ah, yes, Shango. Black women think from a "White radical feminist framework."

And wannabe Afrocentric Black men who talk the talk about "us" while refusing to pay attention to what 50% of us have to say.

Preach on!

Understanding privilege isn't a concern for you unless you aren't the one with benefit.

If this was a thread about da White man, you'd be down, right?

But ignore what's said intracommunity.

So typical. That's dangerous.

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