It's only since I've been participating on this and a few other messageboards, that i've become aware that brothas wish to be pursued. They would like for women to step to them, instead of having to step to women in the dating and mate selection process.

IMHO, many sistas have not been raised or groomed to do this. Many sistas have had a different belief instilled in them: That if you are a clean woman, an honest woman, a hardworking woman, a kind woman, etc that brothas "would just know" that you are special, and worthy and therefore seek you out.

I am not sure how brothas are "supposed to just know" but in many circles, a sista chasing a brotha is seen as forward, loose, desparate, etc. Pursuit is even described by some sistas as a masculine endeavor. Perhaps the parameters of pursuit have changed. Let some tell it, Buffy and Heather nem, are much more adept at the art of pursuit than the sisters. Is it appropriate for a sista to chase?

Everybody can be great... because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.  


Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

Original Post
NS, if it is masculine behavior, then I don't see why there aren't more sistas asking brothers out.

IMO, I've been to some sites where many guys are fed up with the women they've encountered. Some of their views makes sense, others don't. I mean if women in society are being empowered to act like men, why do some women pick the most CRIMINAL or vile traits of men, like doing stupid stuff that get them in jail, molesting their male students, etc.? But I digress. That's a whole other subject.

For me? If you know what you like, why not ask him out? Sometimes we don't know if you do like us or not, unless you DO ask us. A guy gets tired of hearing "Talk to the hand" when asking a woman out. Remember you outlive and outnumber us.
Good question, NS!! tfro

And I would have to give a yes and a no to it! Big Grin

I see nothing wrong with a woman asking a guy out and being the 'aggressor' as it were .. but, I don't agree with being aggressive about it! Switching rolls just to initiate contact is one thing .. but actually going about it in the same manner as he would, I think, is going a little over the top! Eek And besides, I really don't think most men like that kinda of thing anyway. A little well-placed flirtation is usually enough to get him to take it the rest of the way!

And then there is the concept of a man actually "chasing down her man" which I am strongly opposed to! Eek A lot of women tend to do this looong after the man has let go ... and even longer after they should have! Roll Eyes

But ... if you're just talking about the kind of "see a cutie across the room and make a move to 'get to know him better'" Then, yeah .. I say go for it! Life is short .. and you only get one crack at it! Big Grin
I met my current BF was when I initiated contact. I didn't ask him out and I don't think I could ever do that. I let him know I was interested and it was OK to ask for my phone number.
I think if a woman is single and lonely she should approach and initiate.
I hate hearing women complaining but not doing anything about it.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
It's only since I've been participating on this and a few other messageboards, that i've become aware that brothas wish to be pursued. They would like for women to step to them, instead of having to step to women in the dating and mate selection process.



By "pursuit" I would mean: it's nice if you would do something to indicate interest.

I've found some sistas to be extemely passive when it comes to this (maybe for the historical reasons negrospiritual mentions). Either that or very reactive. It's not that other women are more aggressive (or literally "chase down" a man). But some are better at signaling interest and encouraging "pursuit". It becomes an interactive process. Each person takes turns giving signals and acting accordingly. Like a dance which builds to a climax (pun intended?). Each gender plays a role in a choreographed sequence.

Whereas (and excuse me if I misstate my case), it seems some sistas want to be "overwhelmed" - all at once. Either that or put the responsibility entirely on the male to maintain the chase. This (I believe) may have consequences for which males are eventually successful (need I say "aggressive"?, need I say "manipulative"?).

Just an initial thought. I might modify my thoughts after response.
I've heard brothas complain, about women that are too aggressive. Its ok at first, and most men are happy. But after a while, it becomes annoying..........because the aggression continues.

I dont mind approaching a brotha, but im not going to chase him.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I've found some sistas to be extemely passive when it comes to this. Either that or reactive.


About this I think it's important what NS said, though. For the most part, we women are not raised to be the instigator. And it fact, it is totally the opposite. We are 'supposed' to be passive and to wait to be approached by the male. That is the way it's been handed down for generations ... and is only now becoming 'acceptable' (in certain circles) to be more forward as far as initiating contact.

There are still some grandmothers out there that would snatch a female by the ear and try to take her out to the woodshed if she found out that her granddaughter had acted so "brazen" Eek There are supposed to be certain gender roles and rules. But, things are becoming much more blurred.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

.. but actually going about it in the same manner as he would, I think, is going a little over the top! Eek And besides, I really don't think most men like that kinda of thing anyway. A little well-placed flirtation is usually enough to get him to take it the rest of the way!


sista EbRo;

how can you be so sure? Daily, we are subjected to brothas ranting because sistas wont go to happy hour, sistas ain't paying for dinner, sistas ain't taking initiative. It leads me to believe that the brothas wish to be catered to. I'm not speaking about a lil well placed come hither eye language. We all do that...

If more sistas would make those obvious moves like Heather nem do (that make us roll our eyes at the transparency), would fewer sistas be single?
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

Whereas (and excuse me if I misstate my case), it seems some sistas want to be "overwhelmed" - all at once. Either that or put the responsibility entirely on the male to maintain the chase. This (I believe) may have consequences for which males are eventually successful (need I say "aggressive"?, need I say "manipulative"?).


If by overwhelmed you mean flowers, interesting convo, polite gestures colorful plummage um, what's wrong with that?
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EbonyRose:



If more sistas would make those obvious moves like Heather nem do (that make us roll our eyes at the transparency), would fewer sistas be single?


Ain't that a generalization? Not all YT women make obvious moves. Let me tell you where I work is 85% female. The few decent men that are there are well aware of who is interested. It's digusting IMO, they way they throw themselves at the men.
Men like to be approached but acting like a whore is only make you his jump-off not his gf.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Daily, we are subjected to brothas ranting because sistas wont go to happy hour, sistas ain't paying for dinner, sistas ain't taking initiative. It leads me to believe that the brothas wish to be catered to. I'm not speaking about a lil well placed come hither eye language. We all do that...

If more sistas would make those obvious moves like Heather nem do (that make us roll our eyes at the transparency), would fewer sistas be single?



I'm willing to concede at the outset that my statement was overly general.

And my own personal preferences don't necessarily reflect that of all men.

Personally, I don't mind paying the tab. Big Grin

But ...
Are you looking to understand & reconcile this male opinion you've encountered lately or are you looking to bait & incite? The last two posts from you don't advance any positive male participation in this thread.

I'll try anyway though... hug

The chase can be draining, particularly when it is a permanent obligation assigned to you (such is the life of most men). Sometimes, it is nice to know that a lady is interested in you without jumping through all the "traditional" mating ritual.

Fortunately for me, even when I was looking, I tended to attract aggressive Black women. The confidence & assurance of a sexy, witty, engaging sister making the effort to get to know you first is intoxicating. The more it occured, the less attractive "sit in the corner & act demure" sisters became. I can't speak on what women of other ethnicities do in relation to signaling interest.


One thing I'm not clear on is why a womanist would freely reject so many "tradtional", male-centered values but embrace the practice of being "chased" so warmly.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
Are you looking to understand & reconcile this male opinion you've encountered lately or are you looking to bait & incite? The last two posts from you don't advance any positive male participation in this thread.

I'll try anyway though... hug

The chase can be draining, particularly when it is a permanent obligation assigned to you (such is the life of most men). Sometimes, it is nice to know that a lady is interested in you without jumping through all the "traditional" mating ritual.

Fortunately for me, even when I was looking, I tended to attract aggressive Black women. The confidence & assurance of a sexy, witty, engaging sister making the effort to get to know you first is intoxicating. The more it occured, the less attractive "sit in the corner & act demure" sisters became. I can't speak on what women of other ethnicities do in relation to signaling interest.


One thing I'm not clear on is why a womanist would freely reject so many "tradtional", male-centered values but embrace the practice of being "chased" so warmly.



Thank you sooooooo much DD (I really appreciate the hug by the way).

No. I'm not trying to incite anything. I am genuinely trying to understand here. But I was not quite sure how to express my thoughts (yes .. it does happen ... I was at a loss for words).

So I appreciate your stepping up to the plate. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only brotha who knows what I'm trying to say.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

One thing I'm not clear on is why a womanist would freely reject so many "tradtional", male-centered values but embrace the practice of being "chased" so warmly.


I'm merely asking a question about whether sistas in general, who, have been groomed, in general, not to chase, in general, would be better off, in general, if they were more comfortable with chasing/pursuing

IN GENERAL

I have long eyelashes and charm, therefore, not acutely affected by the issue of chase/pursuit

So this is not about ME specifically.

but your participation in this thread is appreciated...

Big Grin Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

One thing I'm not clear on is why a womanist would freely reject so many "tradtional", male-centered values but embrace the practice of being "chased" so warmly.


Question: is a womanist/feminist expected to embrace EVERY aspect of nontraditionalism? It is not necessarily an all-or-nothing proposition. Every woman is a work in progress.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

One thing I'm not clear on is why a womanist would freely reject so many "tradtional", male-centered values but embrace the practice of being "chased" so warmly.


I'm merely asking a question about whether sistas in general, who, have been groomed, in general, not to chase, in general, would be better off, in general, if they were more comfortable with chasing/pursuing

IN GENERAL

I have long eyelashes and charm, therefore, not acutely affected by the issue of chase/pursuit

So this is not about ME specifically.

but your participation in this thread is appreciated...

Big Grin Big Grin


Whoa! I'm not trying to fight... yet 15

My question is a general question - there are a number of self-identified womanists on this board. Eye contact & charm from a distance might still get missed.

Work in progress or not, my question is still a fair and valid one to ask. And since we have women that are capable, I'd like to see a cogent response.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:

My question is a general question - there are a number of self-identified womanists on this board. Eye contact & charm from a distance might still get missed.



Please see above post re: all-or-nothing expectations. Also, I am assuming we are in agreement that sistas, by and large, are not groomed to believe that "chasing" is appropriate. I also should add that some sistas do chase and do boldly step to brothas but I believe (could be wrong) they are in the minority.

So if it is something a good chunk of sistas are groomed to avoid through socialization, religious training, that madonna-whore complex men have, etc

that may or may not be affected by the decision to embrace a womanist perspective. dig?
But how do you know which men have this "complex" if you don't actively engage in the success of your dating life?

I would gather from talking to other men that the demure sister is the norm.

It is a preference, so you'll get a number of answers from men. To be clear, we are talking the initial stages of meeting & getting to know someone.

If the "traditional" approach isn't working for sisters, why not try being more assertive in your dating life, at least on a trial basis? 19
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Please see above post re: all-or-nothing expectations. Also, I am assuming we are in agreement that sistas, by and large, are not groomed to believe that "chasing" is appropriate. I also should add that some sistas do chase and do boldly step to brothas but I believe (could be wrong) they are in the minority.

So if it is something a good chunk of sistas are groomed to avoid through socialization, religious training, that madonna-whore complex men have, etc




According to some accounts that I've seen, there are definite historical reasons for why many of you have this upbringing:

Behavior that could be seen as overtly sexual heightened the risk of interracial rape.

Namely, a type of trauma (or the attempt to avoid it) may lie at the historical roots.

I could be wrong. I'll try to find respectable references to substantiate.
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
But how do you know which men have this "complex" if you don't actively engage in the success of your dating life?

I would gather from talking to other men that the demure sister is the norm.

It is a preference, so you'll get a number of answers from men. To be clear, we are talking the initial stages of meeting & getting to know someone.

If the "traditional" approach isn't working for sisters, why not try being more assertive in your dating life, at least on a trial basis? 19


Am I wrong in interpreting this post as taking on an instructive tone?
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Is it appropriate for a sista to chase?


In my opinion, it is more unnecessary than it is inappropriate. Women do not need to approach men, because most women are approached by men on a regular basis anyway. Think about it this way: If you are being approached by the opposite sex on a regular basis, then why would you feel compelled to do any approaching? It is the same process that happens in the animal world. If a female animal has her choice of mates fighting amongst themselves to mate with her, then why would she feel a sense of urgency to approach the males in her specie?
The tone is inquisitive...

I could only instruct someone who deemed my thoughts competent and worthy of consideration & implementation.

Your question is should sisters chase? My answer is how do you know unless you try it and compare your results to the more "traditional" method.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Is it appropriate for a sista to chase?


In my opinion, it is more unnecessary than it is inappropriate. Women do not need to approach men, because most women are approached by men on a regular basis anyway. Think about it this way: If you are being approached by the opposite sex on a regular basis, then why would you feel compelled to do any approaching? It is the same process that happens in the animal world. If a female animal has her choice of mates fighting amongst themselves to mate with her, then why would she need to approach the males in her specie for mating?



Most females in the animal kingdom don't complain about lacking an actual mate. Big Grin


quote:

That is tantamount to a superstar approaching and begging fans to ask them for his or her autograph when he or she is already being bombarded by fans. That doesn't make any sense. That is why women wait to be approached, because they know that another man is coming right around the corner eventually, like they always do.



Superstars usually don't have the desire to mate with a fan. So their avoidance is understandable. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Most females in the animal kingdom don't complain about lacking an actual mate. Superstars usually don't have the desire to mate with a fan. So their avoidance is understandable. Big Grin


I understand, but essentially, the topic question is asking readers why don't more women approach men, and my explananation is approching men can be uncomfortable and unnatural for women, because they are simply not accustom to having to do it. I agree with you, however, that finding a mate in human specie is a lot more complicated.
quote:
In my opinion, it is more unnecessary than it is inappropriate. Women do not need to approach men, because most women are approached by men on a regular basis anyway. Think about it this way: If you are being approached by the opposite sex on a regular basis, then why would you feel compelled to do any approaching?


I think what is being asked is is it appropriate to approach/chase the man that you find attractive.

I see nothing wrong with it; but have to agree with the male points that the chase is not necessary, only a clear and continued expression of interest, for however, that interest lasts.

In other words, if we approach you and you are interested, let us know. Don't sit back, unresponsive or worse faking disinterest, waiting to be woooed.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
In other words, if we approach you and you are interested, let us know. Don't sit back, unresponsive or worse faking disinterest, waiting to be woooed.


Brother, women are not stupid. If we see a guy who is super attractive and we're feeling him and he's trying to holla at us, then brother, trust me, you will know that we are interested. If you don't have the digits in at least 10 to 15 minutes of conversation, then it's safe to assume that she's not interested. Most people do not spend more than 2 to 3 minutes talking to someone that they find repulsive.
quote:
Brother, women are not stupid.


Trust that I know this. But I wager to bet that for everytime you can cite the "trust me, you will know that we are interested" line, I can show you the non-super-fine, but far from scare little children ugly, brother, who will tell you about our approach, talk to the hand, dismissed, only to find out later ... we didn't try hard enough.

I guess it's like HB said ... it's a dance.
My, my, my, times are really changing. Now women should wear the pants & men wear the panties. Some things I'm in agreement with women being equal to men. Key words: "some things". And some things I feel it's a zone she should not venture in. Now while I'm sure it's a ego thriller to the male psych for a woman to actively pursue him, but let's examine the outcome. At best where will she stand with said man? Will marriage or a sincere relationship occur? More than likely no, oh yeah she'll definately be a booty call since she's proven without a doubt that she wants him bad, perhaps at any cost. I believe men are natural predators, & his instincts have always lead him to pursue whatever female that strikes his fancy, so ok a little light weight flirting on her part is acceptable, ya know like dangling the worm to catch the fish but that's where she should draw the line. And for the men nay-sayers understand I know that what a man say's & how he really feels can be worlds apart. Of course this is just my humble opinion & far from being the gospel.
quote:
Originally posted by Suz:
My, my, my, times are really changing. Now women should wear the pants & men wear the panties. Some things I'm in agreement with women being equal to men. Key words: "some things". And some things I feel it's a zone she should not venture in. Now while I'm sure it's a ego thriller to the male psych for a woman to actively pursue him, but let's examine the outcome. At best where will she stand with said man? Will marriage or a sincere relationship occur? More than likely no, oh yeah she'll definately be a booty call since she's proven without a doubt that she wants him bad, perhaps at any cost. I believe men are natural predators, & his instincts have always lead him to pursue whatever female that strikes his fancy, so ok a little light weight flirting on her part is acceptable, ya know like dangling the worm to catch the fish but that's where she should draw the line. And for the men nay-sayers understand I know that what a man say's & how he really feels can be worlds apart. Of course this is just my humble opinion & far from being the gospel.


Well, to be fair Sister Suz, the title of this thread asks should sistas chase down their man, which suggests that the man already belongs to us, but in actuality, he doesn't. Like some of the brothers have said, women tend to take some things for granted. Don't you think that women should do something to earn the affections of a man in which she's interested, or does a man "belong" to us simply because he's expressed an interest in us?

I think women get so caught up in feeling flattered by a man's interest that we forget that even though a man may have expressed an interest in us, he still doesn't belong to us. In others, he's not "our man" and there is still a very long series of events and stages that the relationship has to survive before we can call a man ours. However, in the mind of some women, the relationship begins the second the man approaches us. We forget that men are visual, and they are attracted to not just us, but to many women.

Great topic Sister Spiritual. appl
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
It's only since I've been participating on this and a few other messageboards, that i've become aware that brothas wish to be pursued. They would like for women to step to them, instead of having to step to women in the dating and mate selection process.

IMHO, many sistas have not been raised or groomed to do this. Many sistas have had a different belief instilled in them: That if you are a clean woman, an honest woman, a hardworking woman, a kind woman, etc that brothas "would just know" that you are special, and worthy and therefore seek you out.

I am not sure how brothas are "supposed to just know" but in many circles, a sista chasing a brotha is seen as forward, loose, desparate, etc. Pursuit is even described by some sistas as a masculine endeavor. Perhaps the parameters of pursuit have changed. Let some tell it, Buffy and Heather nem, are much more adept at the art of pursuit than the sisters. Is it appropriate for a sista to chase?


I didn't bother to read anyone else's responses to this topic just yet. It isn't necessary for women to chase men. Nevertheless, it would be so much easier if many women would simply understand the power of eye contact and a simple smile.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
It's only since I've been participating on this and a few other messageboards, that i've become aware that brothas wish to be pursued. They would like for women to step to them, instead of having to step to women in the dating and mate selection process.

IMHO, many sistas have not been raised or groomed to do this. Many sistas have had a different belief instilled in them: That if you are a clean woman, an honest woman, a hardworking woman, a kind woman, etc that brothas "would just know" that you are special, and worthy and therefore seek you out.

I am not sure how brothas are "supposed to just know" but in many circles, a sista chasing a brotha is seen as forward, loose, desparate, etc. Pursuit is even described by some sistas as a masculine endeavor. Perhaps the parameters of pursuit have changed. Let some tell it, Buffy and Heather nem, are much more adept at the art of pursuit than the sisters. Is it appropriate for a sista to chase?


~I don't see anything wrong with helping the brotha out a little bit since they do take quite a beating to their egos with the "hit and miss". Hey, they can't know until they step to us and find out. So, meeting them halfway, or dropping them some clues for encouragement, or just straight out telling them what's good is fine, imo. But, to "chase"? Oh, hellnaw. nono Never that! That term suggests that he is "running"! LOL! Oh, no. In that case, leave him be. A relationship shoudn't have to be quite THAT trying right from the start!LOL!~
quote:
Originally posted by OhBlackButterfly:
But, to "chase"? Oh, hellnaw. nono Never that! That term suggests that he is "running"! LOL! Oh, no. In that case, leave him be. A relationship shoudn't have to be quite THAT trying right from the start!LOL!~



Speaking for myself, a woman literally "chasing" me is a bit of a turn off. It makes her seem desperate and I feel pressured to respond ... before I'm really sure that I want to.

But this:

quote:

~I don't see anything wrong with helping the brotha out a little bit since they do take quite a beating to their egos with the "hit and miss". Hey, they can't know until they step to us and find out. So, meeting them halfway, or dropping them some clues for encouragement, or just straight out telling them what's good is fine, imo.



is cool. Big Grin

I'll even take care of the bill.
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

.. but actually going about it in the same manner as he would, I think, is going a little over the top! Eek And besides, I really don't think most men like that kinda of thing anyway. A little well-placed flirtation is usually enough to get him to take it the rest of the way!


sista EbRo;

how can you be so sure? Daily, we are subjected to brothas ranting because sistas wont go to happy hour, sistas ain't paying for dinner, sistas ain't taking initiative. It leads me to believe that the brothas wish to be catered to. I'm not speaking about a lil well placed come hither eye language. We all do that...

If more sistas would make those obvious moves like Heather nem do (that make us roll our eyes at the transparency), would fewer sistas be single?


Wellll ... there's a big difference between taking the initiative of offering to cover the check and Becky finding an excuse to bend over and and suffocate him with her silicone-injected breasts! Eek While she will most certainly get a rise (pun intended Smile your of her intended target ... any man who's looking for quality won't give her a second thought!

I do not believe that men are looking to be emasculated by a female who may be interested so that the gender roles are reversed ... nor to be hounded nor hunted by women in hot pursuit. !! Eek They are simply looking for some acknowledgment that you may find them attractive or are interested in getting to know them. It makes it a lot easier for them to preserve their roll as a man and keep their dignity and ego in tact. Wink

Just a little wink or a nod or a smile and a hello is more than they usually get from a woman who may have her eye on them anyway. And plus ... I think it's a lot more fun (and successful) when a woman gives chase in a more covert manner ... so that they're caught before it even dawns on them that maybe they should run! Big Grin

And I can be relatively sure of that because I love .. er ... know men! Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

I didn't bother to read anyone else's responses to this topic just yet. It isn't necessary for women to chase men. Nevertheless, it would be so much easier if many women would simply understand the power of eye contact and a simple smile.
[/QUOTE]



I think many women do. I think many women understand that a flutter of eyelashes and even half a smile will be interpreted as interest and possibly "hookup" by a male. and Thus, a girl has got to be careful with those eyes because a mere blink can bring a whole lotta trouble. Unless, of course, a sista is looking for trouble Wink

Many women avert their eyes or keep their heads down because they know the power of eye language, and other facial expressions.

This might seem strange, but sometimes necessary.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right.

If a woman is interested in a man, the extent of her effort to make this known should be to smile or make direct eye contact?


So essentially, if a man doesn't interpret your "signal" correctly, you're willing to miss out on a potential relationship?

A "Hello my name is... and you are? is out of the question?

Very curious. 19
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
I just want to make sure right I'm understanding this.

If a woman is interested in a man, the extent of her effort to make this known should be to smile or make direct eye contact?


So essentially, if a man doesn't interpret your "signal" correctly, you're willing to miss out on a potential relationship?

A "Hello my name is... and you are? is out of the question?

Very curious. 19




* ahem * ... * ahem * ... * ahem, ahem * ...

I hate to break it to ya ... but I often walk into a place .. and I get that much from a lot of women ... all of them playing the demure game ... possibly vaguely interested ... how am I supposed to know you're different and worth my effort? Big Grin

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