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North Korea announces that it is making atomic bombs. Essentially they are trying to "punk" the United States. What of the feted Bush Doctrine that established our right to PREEMPT national security threats? Is this not a worthy enough threat?

Roll Eyes

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There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela

© MBM

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Probably because Bush and his staff know that the North Korean Army will not fold up like a cheap tent the way the Iraqi Army did when they faced us.

Its easy to push out your chest and thrump the war drums when fighting somebody you know you can overwhelm, its a different story fighting an Army and a country who technically we are still at war with after 50 years and who won't just roll over and give up.

That axis of evil speech was good for political soundbits but the proof is in the action and we have not done anything in response to them because we really aren't prepared to deal with them militarily.
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:

MBM....we can't be punked. What you "NK is punking the US" people fail to realize is this: If we set it off with NK then you can kiss South Korea goodbye....10's of millions of people gone....can you imagine the outcry?


A couple of questions for you:

1) Isn't our national security more important than South Korea's?

2) Do you think the American people give a shit about South Korea?

3) We obviously weren't concerned about "outcry" in the Arab world - from whom we're already under attack all around the world. It wasn't the Maoris who flew planes into the WTC you know! brosmile

Why would we be concerned about "outcry" in SK? It would be just another case of a madman with WMD's, right? Roll Eyes

4) It sounds like they're punking us to me if you say that our hands are tied with NK because of something outside of our control. North Korea is going to the global media and proclaiming their manufacture of nuclear weapons. They are waving it in our faces. What are we doing? If Bush believes we were right to invade a country/topple a government/sacrifice American lives because of a punk like Saddam (who we had under control anyway), do you think he somehow does not believe that there is a threat in NK? Saddam's says no WMDs and we've never found a one. NK tells the entire world that they have them (and not just any WMDs - nuclear weapons!), and oh, BTW, they have rockets capable of delivering them to the the West coast of the U.S. Eek

We're being punked! Bitch slapped in front of the world!! broscream brosmile


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
1. Yes and No...South Korea is our ally, we have bases there and american citizens & american assets there....

2. Yes, human beings are always outraged over the unecessary loss of life...

3. We're always concerned about outcry. Like I said before, If we straight beef with NK, we loose SK....we're not being punked, believe me, we're protecting our interests...NK has 12-18 (estimated), we have 10's of thousands. Why should we beef when we can probably solve this diplomatically?

4. It's ironic that only the US is being punked...not China not Japan...but the US....oh well, I hope you enjoy this so-called "punking" while it lasts...cuz you know that the US will get the last laugh....
Bottomline, the Bush Doctrine is/was just a soundbite justification for going to war, a war that was know to be non-nuclear.

Bush and Crew know that if and when we cross the NK border war, they'll come out swinging quite possibly nuclear clubs.

Besides, maybe we have the national security definition confused. Maybe the Iraqi threat was not the WMD's, but rather, their abundance of oil, that in the end we would be able to exploit, if Russia didn't get there first. NK does have anything for us to exploit.
Great response - thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:

1. Yes and No...South Korea is our ally, we have bases there and american citizens & american assets there....


NK has nuclear tipped missiles pointing at San Francisco and LA. Do we really care about Seoul? Yes, of course, we do, but really?

quote:
2. Yes, human beings are always outraged over the unecessary loss of life...


Just not Iraqi ones? Confused

quote:
3. Why should we beef when we can probably solve this diplomatically?


I agree 10,000% Why couldn't that same logic have been applied to Iraq - which presented a FAR LESS threat to the US, to the world, and to their own people?

quote:
4. It's ironic that only the US is being punked...not China not Japan...but the US....oh well, I hope you enjoy this so-called "punking" while it lasts...cuz you know that the US will get the last laugh....


Those countries didn't get on a world stage and declare their right to preemptive war. Cowboy George introduced the Bush Doctrine! He's the one that looks like a pitiful fool as he is bitch slapped by Kim Jon-Il!


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
Saddam has killed more Iraqis then the US ever could...yes, the US cares about Iraqi lives. Check the logo on the grain....

"far less of a threat"?...can I see your threat matrix please?...I guarantee you that the US's intelligence is better than MBM's! If GWB felt that there was an iminent threat then he'd handle it....NK is just posturing....
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
Saddam has killed more Iraqis then the US ever could...yes, the US cares about Iraqi lives. Check the logo on the grain....

"far less of a threat"?...can I see your threat matrix please?...I guarantee you that the US's intelligence is better than MBM's! If GWB felt that there was an iminent threat then he'd handle it....NK is just posturing....


So, I see you're drinking the TALL glass of purple Kool-Aid from Bush on this one! brosmile

One simple question though, has anyone ever contended that Iraq had a nuclear weapon capable of reaching continental US? Even through all of the lies of the administration, was there ever a contention that trumped what we know about NK's capabilities?

Also, do you honestly believe that the Iraq war is just about our national security or even "liberating" the Iraqi people?


There is no passion to be found playing small, in settling for a life
that is less than the one you are capable of living. - Mandela
quote:
I guarantee you that the US's intelligence is better than MBM's!

Are you talking about the U.S. Intelligence that Colin Powell took to the U.N.? Forged Documented Intelligence?

Or Are you talking about the U.S. Intelligence about SO-DAMN INSANE quest for Nukes in Niger? Fallacy Declared FBI style "Intelligence"?


I just want to know???
ThaWatcher,

Quit being the great W defender....you know damn well he is getting punked, and as a way of life, americans never fight a real fight,only with those they can exploit and not get a real fight from.....I like ya'll "W can do no wrong types"...I guess the country will have to be leveled with only 10 jobs left before you all admit he's a lousy pick for office........
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
Saddam has killed more Iraqis then the US ever could...yes, the US cares about Iraqi lives. Check the logo on the grain....

Specifically, how many Iraqis have Saddam killed and how many Iraqis has the US kills? Does anyone know?

"far less of a threat"?...can I see your threat matrix please?...I guarantee you that the US's intelligence is better than MBM's! If GWB felt that there was an iminent threat then he'd handle it....NK is just posturing....


Are we talking about the same US intelligence that has failed to produce wmd, Saddam or Osama?
The same intelligence that failed to prevent 9/11? This is the same intelligence that will not confirm if NK is serious or bluffing?
@Key..

Again, it's so easy for us to make jokes about "send the student loan people, they'll find Bin Laden and Saddam" and rip the gov't for not finding some of the world's most well connected millionaire international terrorists....As a citizen, you probably hear about 1 or 2 terrorist threats on the news per week- BUT THE PRESIDENT HEARS ABOUT THEM EACH AND EVERY DAY WITHOUT END.....how do you discern which threats are credible?
To hell with Bush...man...lisen here....black unemployment is high as hell.....he had a chance to stay out of the affrimative action thing but filed a breif against AA....therefore supporting reduced opportunities for blacks...he and the conservatives do what they can to be legislatively punitive to blacks....so f-k him and the rest.....you see Watcher, i'm from Texas...where blacks voted for him the LEAST in the nation...we know firsthand what he and his cronies are about....you see the redistricting fight? Despite the demographic changes with increased number of people of color...they are trying to increase republican representation through gerrymandering.....one day you people will realize that they only give a schit about americans with household incomes over 200k......and when I get there (hopefully soon) i'll still say f-k them and vote on behalf of blacks and the less fortunate.....I do not see how any of you can look at this ruined country and sing praise of this cat...unbelievable....
quote:
Originally posted by ThaWatcher:
@Key..

Again, it's so easy for us to make jokes about "send the student loan people, they'll find Bin Laden and Saddam" and rip the gov't for not finding some of the world's most well connected millionaire international terrorists....As a citizen, you probably hear about 1 or 2 terrorist threats on the news per week- BUT THE PRESIDENT HEARS ABOUT THEM EACH AND EVERY DAY WITHOUT END.....how do you discern which threats are credible?


Exactly Watcher! Our intelligence should be able to properly discern between what's true or not. If it cannot, then why did we rely on it in order to justify invading Iraq?

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