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By Darryl James

"Many whites flatter themselves with the idea that the Negro male's lust and desire for the white dream girl is purely aesthetic attraction, but nothing could be farther from the truth."
--Eldridge Cleaver, from Soul on Ice

One of the leading reasons given for the paucity of desirable single Black men is the competition single Black women face with white women. While certain sections of large cities and the false society of television may give weight to that premise, there are some other things to consider.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with dating outside of the race if that is your personal preference. However, it is shameful when people of color date outside of the race based on stereotypes and poor personal experiences.

The popular stereotypes are perpetuated about Black men as well as white women. The stereotypes about white women dictate that white women are easier to deal with because they have brighter dispositions and are more supportive. Of course, there are also stereotypes about white men held by Black women who date them, but I won't discuss that here because single Black men don't present those relationships as a leading reason for their unmarried status, or for their difficulty in finding single Black women.

And what must the white woman think upon hearing from her male counterpart as well as from Black women that she is the object of every Black man's sexual desires? It is also important to note that white women are becoming more aggressive in their pursuit of Black men. This may be due in part to the MTV and Hip Hop era, which has added to the mystique of Black men, but I believe that it is also due to the misinformation they are garnering from some of our very own sisters.

They are repeating to us what some Black women are telling them"”that we are lazy, abusive, worthless, oversexed and that they don't need us. Just as some of our sisters have no problem saying that to white women, those same white women have no problem saying that to us, using that in efforts to win us over.

In my own experience, I have had a number of white women approach me. My preference is Black women, and in two separate situations, I have had the white women explain that they don't understand why I want to date Black women when Black women are so open about their disdain for Black men.

Now, arguments can ensue about the number of white women who say that, and about whether they are just using it as ammunition, but the bottom line is that some Black women are very open about the low esteem in which they hold Black men.

When we disparage each other, everyone is listening and we all lose.

In addition to the stereotypes and outright myths, social programming comes into play, which may help explain why some Black men choose white women and why some Black women think most of us do.

In Soul on Ice, Eldridge Cleaver, himself an admitted rapist and owner of lust for white women, placed that lust in proper perspective, asserting that Black men who prefer white women as the standard of beauty are suffering from no less than the same malady which grips the nation under the seduction of modern media.

"A Black growing up in America is indoctrinated with the white race's standard of beauty," wrote Cleaver. "Not that the whites made a conscious, calculated effort to do this, but (they) brainwashed Blacks by the very processes the whites employed to indoctrinate themselves with their own group standards."

We can see this indoctrination in the expensive weaves and the silly wigs that some Black women insist on wearing, looking foolish while blaming Black men for subjugating them into oppressive styles of beauty. We can also see the indoctrination in the articles in any given issue of Essence and the topics chosen by the nameless, impromptu sisterfriends social clubs, as they discuss reasons why Black men prefer white women, frequently neglecting to ask Black men if they have such a desire.

We can see that indoctrination when sisters we date ask us why we prefer white women without asking if we actually do. Some of us do not.

White men have long been obsessed with the notion that Black men desire white women. Many Black women are now obsessed with the same notion.

The simple truth is that there are throngs of Black men who are dedicated to Black women. There are Black men who, every day, are dating, loving and marrying Black women and others still, who are waiting and searching, just as many Black women wait and search for Black men to love.

Black love is still alive and neither the lies of white men, nor the promulgation of those lies in our own psyches can kill it.

I've been in love with Black women since I first took notice of the different shades and shapes, the different lips and the different hips possessed by the variety of beautiful women in my race.

My standard of beauty as a child was Lola Falana as opposed to Bo Derek, and it was an infatuation with the first Black Miss America, Vanessa Williams and not any other before her. My standard of beauty can be seen in the chocolate skin, ample lips and broad nose of my first love as well as the light skin, small mouth and slim nose of my greatest love. My standard of beauty was defined most succinctly in the words of Method Man from the Wu Tang Clan in "Ice Cream," a Rap ode to the range of the rainbow in Ebony hues: "French Vanilla, Butter Pecan, Chocolate Deluxe," from light-bright and d**ned near white, to blue-black and as dark as midnight, including everything in between.

So, I feel comfortable speaking for a great number of Black men when I exclaim that the Black woman is and will be, my only choice. The white woman is not this Black man's Kryptonite, because it takes a version of chocolate to make me weak in the knees. It takes a special blend of the knowledge of oppression and unrequited freedom; social dissonance and a natural rhythm of living, walking and talking to capture my attention. And it takes an indefinable combination of sweetness and strength; love and hope; joy and pain to create the true object of my desire in today's America.

The object of my desire owns an ageless shape, a timeless style and shades that have become the de facto standard of beauty around the globe, as surgery, chemicals, aerobics and a death wish in the sun alter what genetics has delivered in an attempt to be what we all truly love underneath the thin veneer of social conditioning.

I have stepped out of the matrix to resist this society's programming. I am committed to loving Black women and I know that I am not alone.

I have nothing against white women. I just don't have anything for them.
Original Post
quote:
To be clear, there is nothing wrong with dating outside of the race if that is your personal preference. However, it is shameful when people of color date outside of the race based on stereotypes and poor personal experiences.


I would think there'd be a storm of protest about this statement??? Esp that word 'preference'??? Is he saying it's ok to have preferences (outside your race) if you are black, although it is not if you are white. Confused Enlighten me, please.

quote:
I have stepped out of the matrix to resist this society's programming. I am committed to loving Black women and I know that I am not alone.

I have nothing against white women. I just don't have anything for them.


ok, he doesn't. but...hmmm... what's the point? The musings of one individual... not so different from taffy's ramblings really.

We can all be self-indulgent. I tend to think that people who have to raise a flag every time they make a choice are THE ones with the issues. There are LOVING, ADORABLE, BEAUTIFUL, SEXY men and women of all races on the globe.

Anyone who finds someone who fits them like a glove does deserve a round of applause, but let's like... just get ON with it? Love is love. Respect is respect. Lust is lust. Let's all hope for relationships that include equal amounts of all 3 - wherever and whoever you find it with.
.
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quote:
Originally posted by ronin10:


The popular stereotypes are perpetuated about Black men as well as white women. The stereotypes about white women dictate that white women are easier to deal with because they have brighter dispositions and are more supportive.


bs Anyone who believes that has never met my ex-wife. laugh


quote:
"A Black growing up in America is indoctrinated with the white race's standard of beauty," wrote Cleaver. "Not that the whites made a conscious, calculated effort to do this, but (they) brainwashed Blacks by the very processes the whites employed to indoctrinate themselves with their own group standards."
.


I think this has very little to do with whether a person chooses to date black or white. Dating is such a complicated mess anyway, often times it comes down to simple accessability. I have dated mostly white women in my life, mostly because those were the women that were around. I am the last person you will see passing up an good opportunity because that opportunity doesn't fit my perfect mental picture. I am far more interested in her attitude toward life and her interest in me. If she gets high marks in those two areas, then she could be a 3'5", purple, and from another planet, and I would still give her a chance! hitit
Last edited {1}
quote:
Love is love.


In and ideal world this would be true.

I for one have not and would not date a white woman. But if that is what floats another man's boat then so be it.

But as I said, we oversimplify the issue with the "it's all about love and finding someone to connect with blah, blah, blah. There are fare deeper issues – psychological and social - when looking at interracial relationships.
MLM I believe that it depends on the persons who are making the love connection. We all bring baggage to a relationship (some bring more than others).
Example some white women might pick a black man because she was abused by white guys in her previous relationships. Some black women have done the reverse and if you interviewed both would say that it is because they are treated with respect.
I am still trying to figure out one of my wife's friends who was married and had four children. She found out that her husband was a cheat and she left him and is now in a lesbian realtionship of over 5 years. She says that she is still attracted to men but she finds that her companion fulfills her emotional needs and respects her. Am thinking that she was bi before te husband cheating thing.
So my point is that we are sometimes, for good or bad motivated to do things outside of the norm for various emotional reasons and race plays a smaller part, in fact I would venture that religion and cultural upbringing can have a greater influence on a person's choice of lover.
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
Love is love.


But as I said, we oversimplify the issue with the "it's all about love and finding someone to connect with blah, blah, blah. There are fare deeper issues – psychological and social - when looking at interracial relationships.


Excuse me, please... I have issue with "over-simplified" and "Deeper psychological/social" issues.

MLM, do you mean:

1) Love/empathy/trust/loyalty is not relevant in human pair-bonding?
2) People who do not use color-of-skin as leading criteria in the choice of their mates are somehow psychologically deficient?
3) Who are you to dictate this to others?
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
But as I said, we oversimplify the issue with the "it's all about love and finding someone to connect with blah, blah, blah. There are fare deeper issues – psychological and social - when looking at interracial relationships.


Issues? like?

quote:
Originally posted by Blacksanction:
MLM I believe that it depends on the persons who are making the love connection. We all bring baggage to a relationship (some bring more than others).
Example some white women might pick a black man because she was abused by white guys in her previous relationships. Some black women have done the reverse and if you interviewed both would say that it is because they are treated with respect.
I am still trying to figure out one of my wife's friends who was married and had four children. She found out that her husband was a cheat and she left him and is now in a lesbian realtionship of over 5 years. She says that she is still attracted to men but she finds that her companion fulfills her emotional needs and respects her. Am thinking that she was bi before te husband cheating thing.
So my point is that we are sometimes, for good or bad motivated to do things outside of the norm for various emotional reasons and race plays a smaller part, in fact I would venture that religion and cultural upbringing can have a greater influence on a person's choice of lover.


In my experience you're right on the mark. tfro
quote:
Originally posted by thayfen:
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
quote:
Love is love.


But as I said, we oversimplify the issue with the "it's all about love and finding someone to connect with blah, blah, blah. There are fare deeper issues – psychological and social - when looking at interracial relationships.


Excuse me, please... I have issue with "over-simplified" and "Deeper psychological/social" issues.

MLM, do you mean:

1) Love/empathy/trust/loyalty is not relevant in human pair-bonding?
2) People who do not use color-of-skin as leading criteria in the choice of their mates are somehow psychologically deficient?
3) Who are you to dictate this to others?


Like I said, in an ideal world or maybe a fairytale land race wouldn't be an issue. But in the context of the "real world" and this country it has been, and probably will be for a long time.

So love/empathy/trust/loyalty is relevant and I didn't say or imply that they are not,
I never said anyone was deficient and like I said, whatever floats another man's boat so I'm not "dictating "anything to anyone.

And all of the talk about "love should only matter" is, as I said, great in an ideal world. But interracial dating and marriage has its own issues outside of the normal gender issues men and women have IMHO The same can be said of interfaith or intercultural marriages.

I read that when dealing with marriage counseling for interracial couples, that one of the major issues revolves around the white partner being insensitive to the black partner with regards to discrimination. This might be the white partner being dismissive of the black partners claims of racial discrimination at work etc.

Then there are the child rearing issues. What about when the black parent is out with their light skinned almost white looking child? There are those who can share experiences of being "questioned" about their being with the child. What about when the child has to "decide" what race to identify with. Am I black, Am I white. See Tiger Woods for as an example of this issue with interracial or intercultural marriages.

quote:
Example some white women might pick a black man because she was abused by white guys in her previous relationships.


And this is and example of a psychological/social issue Big Grin

So, like I said, if someone is willing and able to deal with this issue – great for them. All I said is that I would never want to deal with those issues and that it's not a simple matter of "finding someone you love so race doesn't/shouldn't matter."
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
Dr Phil had an issue of race as a topic today. And there was a black mother with her "mixed" daughter who had issues with her daughter "acting white". Her daughter seemed to gravitate towards whites more then blacks



Interesting.....

I dont understand how can she stop her child, from 'acting white'........when the childs father is white.

Too bad i missed that show.......
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
Dr Phil had an issue of race as a topic today. And there was a black mother with her "mixed" daughter who had issues with her daughter "acting white". Her daughter seemed to gravitate towards whites more then blacks

Interesting.....

I dont understand how can she stop her child, from 'acting white'........when the childs father is white.

Too bad i missed that show.......


I saw the show. It was very interesting to me because I'm bi-racial. The question that kept comming to me about that mother was, "How do you act white? Is there a specific way that white people act?" The mother also said she thought her daughter wasn't black enough. So, of course, similar questions present themselves,"How black is black enough? How does one portray blackness?"

I think the mother's unaddressed problem is that her daughter is more than half-white. She has very Aryan features and her skin is just dark enough to look like a tan. She could pass for white to any white person. I think black folks would notice (my experience is that we are more observent of these things)that she had some black in her. Her mother, on the other hand, is very light skinned but definately African. She could not ever pass for white. I think the mothers greater fear is that, if she chose, her daughter could just pass for white and totally turn her back on the black side of her family. To her credit, the daughter gave no indication that she would do that. But the fact that she COULD still scares mom.

I personally have never had this problem. Any one who looks at me knows that I'm not white. White people confuse me with all kinds of stuff (Arab, Mexican, Hawaiian, ect.), but black folks always know where I came from.

Inter-racial dating certainly has its complications (certainly I know...no matter who I date it's inter-racial) but, as in all things, my parents are good teachers. I would say the most important skill to cultivate is patience and sensitivity. Both people have to be patient in their communication, as their styles are likely to be drastically different. Both people also have to be sensitive to any subject in which they or the other person has no frame of reference.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Inter-racial dating certainly has its complications (certainly I know...no matter who I date it's inter-racial) but, as in all things, my parents are good teachers. I would say the most important skill to cultivate is patience and sensitivity. Both people have to be patient in their communication, as their styles are likely to be drastically different. Both people also have to be sensitive to any subject in which they or the other person has no frame of reference.


I think this is really good advice for those that date interracially.


tfro

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